[IC] F62+F77! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[Elrick]

Thanks Elrick and U47!

Here are two more prototype photos showing a nice fit of the top and bottom inner assembly, which slide together like the original.

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Already have stashed away money for Kin25's TX1800 but it looks like it will never happen.  Might as well put it into this Group Buy because we have a winner here a REAL, live Buckling Spring brought to life in 2015  .

The quality alone makes your keyboard better than what IBM could ever produce or even Unicomp could ever achieve.  A lone man in the wilderness has done more in his short time here than those clowns at Unicomp, it's almost shameful and embarrassing to call yourself a manufacturer yet produce nothing of worth.

Looking forward to your new keyboard, plus revitalizing the ancient BS switches is what might make Unicomp still stay in business and that will be all down to you Ellipse.

[ccc24]

how far are you away from completed prototypes?

[chiefgrillz]

hmm interesting! i havent seen an original in person i'll be keeping an eye on how this all pans out

[Ellipse]

Thanks Elrick!  Though it is definitely a major investment - we are all putting in $35,000 plus, assuming 100+ orders (we are now at 130+ preorders!)

CCC - I hope to have prototypes by the end of October and take orders in November assuming the prototypes are up to my standards.

Chief- thanks for your interest.  I posted some photos of the prototype parts including the inner assembly and the PCBs which look great when light shines through them.  I recommend looking through the thread for the photos and renderings!

[chiefgrillz]

Chief- thanks for your interest.  I posted some photos of the prototype parts including the inner assembly and the PCBs which look great when light shines through them.  I recommend looking through the thread for the photos and renderings!

it really blows me away how much time and effort you have put into re manufacturing an ancient board. seriously my hat is off to you guys!

i would like to try the the model F keys.. i like model m but my fingers get fatigued after using them for extended periods, so from what i've read the slightly lighter keys on this board might be preferable(?). i think your price is very reasonable considering it's a small custom manufacturing job.. but i'll have to think carefully if the layout would work for me. it would be a lovely collection piece but i need to try to just get things i'll use a lot

[dohbot]

Just a quick question, is this only an interest check at the moment, or a group buy, and will I get an invoice immediately or just when the group buy starts? I keep wanting to sign up but I am not ready for receiving an invoice... Also would I have a chance to cancel?

[Ellipse]

doh it is an interest check at this point.  No invoicing until I fully test the prototypes.  You can change your mind since nothing is being ordered just yet.

[dohbot]

doh it is an interest check at this point.  No invoicing until I fully test the prototypes.  You can change your mind since nothing is being ordered just yet.

Cool, I'll put myself in!

[ryahirv]

Just added my interest form - I'm in for 1 of each model if it gets done - SO SO cool!

Thank you for all the effort of trying to make this happen!

[ryahirv]

Was there every any thought of doing an IBM industrial color scheme? 

I think it looks amazing!  :-)

[Ellipse]

Thanks ryahirv.  And yes you can order the Industrial type keys, but Unicomp makes the blue color shade a little different compared to the original.

[ryahirv]

I know this is probably the cart ahead of the horse, but is the hope that these will be something we might get in our hands by Jan/Feb?

[Ellipse]

I hope to deliver in December.

[ryahirv]

I hope to deliver in December.

Wow - I must say sir - Thank you in advance - This is literally the most exciting computing thing (to me anyways) in a LONG LONG LONG........LONG time  :-)

[ghostjuggernaut]

Finally added my interest in the form. Forgot I was supposed to do that before. 😑

[Eugene45]

Hello
By any chance an ISO version possible ?
Would this be the only one production run ?

[Techno Trousers]

The great thing about IBM buckling spring boards is that you can configure them for ANSI or ISO layout. You just have to change around the positions of the pivot plates and use different caps.

I'm going to make mine mostly ANSI, but use an ISO short left shift. The extra key left of Z will be my easy-to-reach function key to activate an arrow and modifier layer for the keys under my right hand.

[Eugene45]

Well i mean could the board be native ISO.
Dont want to have to mod it and loose one key because of it.

[darkspider]

What kind of layout does original F62/77 and the final product of this project have?
I saw a picture in kishy.ca, and confirm that the board in the picture has ANSI-like layout with extra keys next to short LShift and short Enter.
I guess, it is the original, isn't it?

[Ellipse]

Yep they can be ordered with any layout that the barrels support.  I will move the flippers and springs around.  I will leave a notes section in the order form to request specific differences from a standard 1391401 layout, such as split right shift, 1u left shift, 1u backspace, num pad keys or ins/del/etc. and cursor keys for the extra keys on an F77, etc.

[njbair]

Yep they can be ordered with any layout that the barrels support.  I will move the flippers and springs around.  I will leave a notes section in the order form to request specific differences from a standard 1391401 layout, such as split right shift, 1u left shift, 1u backspace, num pad keys or ins/del/etc. and cursor keys for the extra keys on an F77, etc.

I love that split right shift is an option. I get the ISO split shift thing, but if you're going to split one shift and not the other, why not the longer one?

[djkib]

wow... just... wow...

I think I would be shot and thrown to the wolves here in PA/USA if I even thought about this (my financial advisor thinks I have too many keyboards already)...

But I have to say... amazing.

Any thought to using a non-metal case? How would that affect the price?

Thanks!

[Techno Trousers]

Yep they can be ordered with any layout that the barrels support.  I will move the flippers and springs around.  I will leave a notes section in the order form to request specific differences from a standard 1391401 layout, such as split right shift, 1u left shift, 1u backspace, num pad keys or ins/del/etc. and cursor keys for the extra keys on an F77, etc.

I love that split right shift is an option. I get the ISO split shift thing, but if you're going to split one shift and not the other, why not the longer one?

Well, first off, I'm used to using arrow keys with my right hand, so I'd want to activate a function layer with my left hand, not right. Second, I've done some experimentation with my natural keyboarding reach. When I'm at full speed, my left pinky already hits the far left edge of both ANSI shift keys. So I can safely shorten the left shift without having to make any typing adjustments. The third, admittedly minor, point is that this particular mod is possible without deviating from IBM's original design. So I can have the same layout on my original F62 and my F122s. Not that the F122 needs that extra function key, of course, but I may do it for consistency.

Of course this is only my own preference. The great thing about these keyboards is that they can be reconfigured fairly easily.

[Ellipse]

DJ-metal vs plastic would not make much of a materials cost difference.  The main cost is in the CNC Machining or injection/die cast mold making of plastic/metal.

[ryahirv]

 Are we going to have to put these together ourselves?

 I'm not lazy but I'm a little concerned about my competence :-)

[romevi]

Are we going to have to put these together ourselves?

 I'm not lazy but I'm a little concerned about my competence :-)

No. You have the option to order parts, but this is for a complete board.

[Ellipse]

Yep they come fully assembled, no extra cost!

[ryahirv]

Yep they come fully assembled, no extra cost!

Best news all day!  😀

[Elrick]

Yep they come fully assembled, no extra cost!

Best news all day!  😀

EXACTLY, this is what every Geekhacker wants, a complete keyboard ready for connection into your PC.

Just like waiting for a 2015 BMW M6 G-Power Hurricane CS Ultimate, to be delivered to your front door  .

Something so rare and unique that it burns a hole in your eye-sockets the very minute they come into contact with it.....

[rowdy]

Yep they come fully assembled, no extra cost!

Best news all day!  😀

EXACTLY, this is what every Geekhacker wants, a complete keyboard ready for connection into your PC.

Just like waiting for a 2015 BMW M6 G-Power Hurricane CS Ultimate, to be delivered to your front door  .

Something so rare and unique that it burns a hole in your eye-sockets the very minute they come into contact with it.....

That would make reading the forum a little challenging ...

[ManicMatt1125]

This looks intense. I really hope it pans out

[Ellipse]

I also plan on doing a bulk Unicomp order for new key sets, so I suggest ordering keys for your F77/F62 through me so that I can install them on your ordered keyboard and test the keys - otherwise I will need to install and then remove caps to test each keyboard.

Assuming a layout similar to a 1391401, It looks like each keyboard will require $34 in Unicomp key parts - 4 stabilizer inserts ($1.50 each), a spacebar ($3), and a key set ($25 printed key set or $20 unprinted key set).  If there is a less expensive option please let me know - I asked if there was a bulk discount but they did not offer one.

[ryahirv]

ellipse:  when can we give you money!!!??

[Elrick]

I also plan on doing a bulk Unicomp order for new key sets, so I suggest ordering keys for your F77/F62 through me so that I can install them on your ordered keyboard and test the keys - otherwise I will need to install and then remove caps to test each keyboard.

Assuming a layout similar to a 1391401, It looks like each keyboard will require $34 in Unicomp key parts - 4 stabilizer inserts ($1.50 each), a spacebar ($3), and a key set ($25 printed key set or $20 unprinted key set).  If there is a less expensive option please let me know - I asked if there was a bulk discount but they did not offer one.

Anything you require, just ask because what ever makes it easier for you to put these babies together and have them working 100% to your own specs we shall agree to without question.

Putting together this style of keyboard is more complex than simply soldering Cherry switches onto a pcb, that is why I am glad you offered your service here BUT realize what you shall be giving up here, your own personal life, free time and above all, any known sense of sanity.  Building keyboards for strangers is a very time consuming and perilous journey that can sometimes collapse into absurdity.

Make sure that you can withstand the hunger and anticipation of Geekhackers wanting your product above everything else and trying to please everyone here, which could ultimately lead to your eventual downfall.  Just make sure you are prepared for this monumental task once it starts.

A lot of people have started Group Buys for the construction of keyboards and have failed, leaving many out of pocket hence we need to know that once you start this there is no turning back.

[Ellipse]

Thanks Elrick - I expect to have these mostly assembled in China.  It may be a good idea for me to also send the keys to China to be assembled.  I will do the final testing though.

[Elrick]

Thanks Elrick - I expect to have these mostly assembled in China.  It may be a good idea for me to also send the keys to China to be assembled.  I will do the final testing though.

The MOST important thing to remember here is to ALWAYS keep in contact here on Geekhack and/or DT because nothing is worse than not hearing anything for months about this Group Buy, then all hell breaks loose and the lynching party starts to form easily.

You have to at least post once a week in this forum on the progression of this venture because it gives no one any haste about spending their money and being in this Group Buy.  BunnyLake is the current KING of Group Buys because he goes way overboard in assuring everyone that everything is in hand and running as expected.  Even if difficulties spring up (because they always do) talking about it here on this forum is far better than keeping it all to yourself.

You will be surprised the good will you shall receive if you are honest and forthcoming about this whole Group Buy because people in turn will trust you fully without question.  Just consider yourself a Captain of this Group Buy which is like a huge ship heading to a destination.  If you are calm and collected the trip will be enjoyable and you shall have everyone running up to you asking 1000 questions, yet you answer them all with dignity and respect no matter what they ask.

Remember you set the tone for this whole venture and being a leader isn't easy, so ask yourself if you are up to the task before starting this because it will not be easy at all once it commences.

[darkspider]

Ellipse is a good leader and trustworthy enough I think, honestly.

[njbair]

Thanks Elrick - I expect to have these mostly assembled in China.  It may be a good idea for me to also send the keys to China to be assembled.  I will do the final testing though.

The MOST important thing to remember here is to ALWAYS keep in contact here on Geekhack and/or DT because nothing is worse than not hearing anything for months about this Group Buy, then all hell breaks loose and the lynching party starts to form easily.

You have to at least post once a week in this forum on the progression of this venture because it gives no one any haste about spending their money and being in this Group Buy.  BunnyLake is the current KING of Group Buys because he goes way overboard in assuring everyone that everything is in hand and running as expected.  Even if difficulties spring up (because they always do) talking about it here on this forum is far better than keeping it all to yourself.

You will be surprised the good will you shall receive if you are honest and forthcoming about this whole Group Buy because people in turn will trust you fully without question.  Just consider yourself a Captain of this Group Buy which is like a huge ship heading to a destination.  If you are calm and collected the trip will be enjoyable and you shall have everyone running up to you asking 1000 questions, yet you answer them all with dignity and respect no matter what they ask.

Remember you set the tone for this whole venture and being a leader isn't easy, so ask yourself if you are up to the task before starting this because it will not be easy at all once it commences.

I think Elrick is understandably cautious, having been burnt in the past. But he speaks for many community members for sure.

He's right on, though, that communication is key. Whatever setbacks and obstacles you may face, silence is not the answer because people's imaginations are always 100x worse than reality, especially once that mob mentality sets in.

These people aren't dumb, so if you arm your buyers with information so that they know what's happening, and keep them in the loop, you will have a happy group. Also, always remember that it's better to under-promise and over-deliver.

[Melvang]

I also plan on doing a bulk Unicomp order for new key sets, so I suggest ordering keys for your F77/F62 through me so that I can install them on your ordered keyboard and test the keys - otherwise I will need to install and then remove caps to test each keyboard.

Assuming a layout similar to a 1391401, It looks like each keyboard will require $34 in Unicomp key parts - 4 stabilizer inserts ($1.50 each), a spacebar ($3), and a key set ($25 printed key set or $20 unprinted key set).  If there is a less expensive option please let me know - I asked if there was a bulk discount but they did not offer one.

Fair warning, Unicomp is out of right shift in black blank.  And they do not plan on getting more in stock ever. 

[rowdy]

I also plan on doing a bulk Unicomp order for new key sets, so I suggest ordering keys for your F77/F62 through me so that I can install them on your ordered keyboard and test the keys - otherwise I will need to install and then remove caps to test each keyboard.

Assuming a layout similar to a 1391401, It looks like each keyboard will require $34 in Unicomp key parts - 4 stabilizer inserts ($1.50 each), a spacebar ($3), and a key set ($25 printed key set or $20 unprinted key set).  If there is a less expensive option please let me know - I asked if there was a bulk discount but they did not offer one.

Fair warning, Unicomp is out of right shift in black blank.  And they do not plan on getting more in stock ever. 

[atlas3686]

I also plan on doing a bulk Unicomp order for new key sets, so I suggest ordering keys for your F77/F62 through me so that I can install them on your ordered keyboard and test the keys - otherwise I will need to install and then remove caps to test each keyboard.

Assuming a layout similar to a 1391401, It looks like each keyboard will require $34 in Unicomp key parts - 4 stabilizer inserts ($1.50 each), a spacebar ($3), and a key set ($25 printed key set or $20 unprinted key set).  If there is a less expensive option please let me know - I asked if there was a bulk discount but they did not offer one.

Fair warning, Unicomp is out of right shift in black blank.  And they do not plan on getting more in stock ever. 

Almost had a heart attack fortunately for the HHKB style right shift we won't need a standard right shift but it sucks for everyone else

[Melvang]

I also plan on doing a bulk Unicomp order for new key sets, so I suggest ordering keys for your F77/F62 through me so that I can install them on your ordered keyboard and test the keys - otherwise I will need to install and then remove caps to test each keyboard.

Assuming a layout similar to a 1391401, It looks like each keyboard will require $34 in Unicomp key parts - 4 stabilizer inserts ($1.50 each), a spacebar ($3), and a key set ($25 printed key set or $20 unprinted key set).  If there is a less expensive option please let me know - I asked if there was a bulk discount but they did not offer one.

Fair warning, Unicomp is out of right shift in black blank.  And they do not plan on getting more in stock ever. 

Almost had a heart attack fortunately for the HHKB style right shift we won't need a standard right shift but it sucks for everyone else

Yup sorry about that.  Should have mentioned ANSI right shift.  And brilliant white is not available in their large size.

[ghostjuggernaut]

Ideally I would be interested in a black blank set, but have heard that they no longer make them.

Next option might be a classic blank set or APL.

[Melvang]

Ideally I would be interested in a black blank set, but have heard that they no longer make them.

Next option might be a classic blank set or APL.

They still have stock, just no ANSI right shift.

[ghostjuggernaut]

Ideally I would be interested in a black blank set, but have heard that they no longer make them.

Next option might be a classic blank set or APL.

They still have stock, just no ANSI right shift.

I must have missed it then. I could've swore it wasn't listed anymore. Too bad on the shift though.

[Ellipse]

Is there a downside to dyeing a regular color right shift key black to complete the set?  Why can these blank right shift keys not be produced any longer in black?

Well anyways, who would have imagined we are up to 146 preorders after about three months?

Here is another photo showing the 6-32 thread hole on the bottom inner assembly. A 6-32 screw will be used to ground the PCB against the bottom inner assembly.

[Melvang]

Ideally I would be interested in a black blank set, but have heard that they no longer make them.

Next option might be a classic blank set or APL.

They still have stock, just no ANSI right shift.

I must have missed it then. I could've swore it wasn't listed anymore. Too bad on the shift though.

This was as of a couple weeks ago when the Xtant plates shipped out.

Is there a downside to dyeing a regular color right shift key black to complete the set?  Why can these blank right shift keys not be produced any longer in black?

Well anyways, who would have imagined we are up to 146 preorders after about three months?

Here is another photo showing the 6-32 thread hole on the bottom inner assembly. A 6-32 screw will be used to ground the PCB against the bottom inner assembly.

(Attachment Link)

Color matching with dye process can be problematic at best.  Best bet would be to buy a full set in one color, or a color scheme you want regarding light and dark keys, and dye the full set.

[Ellipse]

I think Unicomp still offers the APL set but a support rep said they no longer offer their limited edition F1 etc. front printing on the number row keys, as of my support ticket from two months ago (they also said they don't offer black key sets so I'm not sure if it is correct). 

They said they do still offer the Industrial SSK blue keys (though in a slightly different shade of blue) and the SSK style number printing on the letter keys for the embedded num pad.

[njbair]

I think Unicomp still offers the APL set but a support rep said they no longer offer their limited edition F1 etc. front printing on the number row keys, as of my support ticket from two months ago (they also said they don't offer black key sets so I'm not sure if it is correct). 

They said they do still offer the Industrial SSK blue keys (though in a slightly different shade of blue) and the SSK style number printing on the letter keys for the embedded num pad.

I recently ordered a replica SSK keycap through the Unicomp website. The caps look fine apart from a little bit of flashing along the bottom edges which they didn't bother to remove, but which is pretty much only visible from directly above. Also, the F3 was cracked so they had to send me a new one. The replacement was free, but the dyesub legend looks slightly different from the others in the set when closely examined.

[djkib]

To heck with the repercussions... I just put my interest form in... I need to have one of these.

I have never been a fan of the smaller F77 of F62 layout, as I have always been a model M person, but I think I could grow to like it. I find I use the number pad less and less as time goes on...

Keep up the great work. I look forward to taking delivery when they are available...

Any way I can help?

Thanks for all you do!