[IC] DANGER ZONE - A Key Set for Aviators and Their Wingmen

[00zeRO]

Also is it bad that i want this set to subvert and make a Fallout keyboard?

Hmmmm...I like your thinkin'

I'd like to think it was your awesome Vault 13 caps that inspired me, at least subconsciously.   

Well, I was already looking to do a Nuclear Data: Vault Dweller Edition, but...you beat me to it. Great Job on this!

I am curious, have they cleared your legends for the winged DZ logo yet? That is my least favorite part of creating new stuff...they say 'no', 'no', 'not yet', 'almost there', and then finally 'Yes!'

Also is it bad that i want this set to subvert and make a Fallout keyboard?

Hmmmm...I like your thinkin'

I'd like to think it was your awesome Vault 13 caps that inspired me, at least subconsciously.   

*proceeds to kick self over missing Fallout GB*

There will be a Series III...

[Data]

Also is it bad that i want this set to subvert and make a Fallout keyboard?

Hmmmm...I like your thinkin'

I'd like to think it was your awesome Vault 13 caps that inspired me, at least subconsciously.   

Well, I was already looking to do a Nuclear Data: Vault Dweller Edition, but...you beat me to it. Great Job on this!

I am curious, have they cleared your legends for the winged DZ logo yet? That is my least favorite part of creating new stuff...they say 'no', 'no', 'not yet', 'almost there', and then finally 'Yes!'

Nothing has cleared SP yet.  I wasn't going to start that process with SP until/unless the set had considerable support.  There are enough GBs running right now that we'd be better off taking our time anyway.

I think Engicoder is going to lend a hand with some of the legends.  I've read SP's "guide" several times and it looks... daunting.  I'm trying to work within the 0.380" square they allow for SA 1u caps.  Meeting the radius and minimum distance requirements will be fun...   

[Data]

UPDATE:  I've uploaded small updates for the RAF and Maverick Packs.  Changes posted to OP.





I also have the start of what will hopefully be some 1u novelty keys.  Any suggestions are HUGELY appreciated.



The RAF roundel seemed like an obvious addition so I went ahead and tossed it in the pack.

[engicoder]

For the novelty kit, how about "CHAFF", "FLARE" and/or "FUEL DUMP" 1u caps?

[Dihedral]

UPDATE:  I've uploaded small updates for the RAF and Maverick Packs.  Changes posted to OP.

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I also have the start of what will hopefully be some 1u novelty keys.  Any suggestions are HUGELY appreciated.

Show Image

The RAF roundel seemed like an obvious addition so I went ahead and tossed it in the pack.

you took my idea! awesome! for what its worth, this is my favorite new keyset in a while. good luck!

[Data]

For the novelty kit, how about "CHAFF", "FLARE" and/or "FUEL DUMP" 1u caps?

Hmm, yes...  I'll try these.  FLARE I'm already using (it's also a maneuver, I was using it in that context) but it might work better alongside CHAFF on a 1u.

FUEL DUMP seems like a no-brainer.

I might also try an ECM key.

[Data]

UPDATE:  I've uploaded small updates for the RAF and Maverick Packs.  Changes posted to OP.

Show Image

Show Image

I also have the start of what will hopefully be some 1u novelty keys.  Any suggestions are HUGELY appreciated.

Show Image

The RAF roundel seemed like an obvious addition so I went ahead and tossed it in the pack.

you took my idea! awesome! for what its worth, this is my favorite new keyset in a while. good luck!

Thanks for the suggestion!  It was so obvious after you mentioned it.  :D

[ideus]

So that's like 10 votes for SA and 1 for DSA.  I'm definitely seeing a trend.  Should I bother with a poll at this point?

DSA sucks.

SA is great, but I'm not a fan of uniform profile. I understand why people want it, for their odd layouts or whatever. But contoured just feels so much better.

DSA can be mix and match with other DSAs sets people already owned, to create unique interesting combinations. With recent GBs for DSA kits in the hundreds, and some in the thousands this should be considered.

[Data]

So that's like 10 votes for SA and 1 for DSA.  I'm definitely seeing a trend.  Should I bother with a poll at this point?

DSA sucks.

SA is great, but I'm not a fan of uniform profile. I understand why people want it, for their odd layouts or whatever. But contoured just feels so much better.

DSA can be mix and match with other DSAs sets people already owned, to create unique interesting combinations. With recent GBs for DSA kits in the hundreds, and some in the thousands this should be considered.

It's being considered.  But if it doesn't get enough VOTES then it will lose to SA.  Pretty simple.

Right now DSA has 1 vote, so it's not looking good.

>> VOTE HERE <<  Voting is closed.

[Data]

It's my understanding that a homing bump on the H, U, N, and T keys will be enough to cover Dvorak and Colemak kits.  Is that correct?

Would anyone object to me adding these 4 1u caps to the Maverick Pack?

[Dihedral]

So that's like 10 votes for SA and 1 for DSA.  I'm definitely seeing a trend.  Should I bother with a poll at this point?

DSA sucks.

SA is great, but I'm not a fan of uniform profile. I understand why people want it, for their odd layouts or whatever. But contoured just feels so much better.

DSA can be mix and match with other DSAs sets people already owned, to create unique interesting combinations. With recent GBs for DSA kits in the hundreds, and some in the thousands this should be considered.

It's being considered.  But if it doesn't get enough VOTES then it will lose to SA.  Pretty simple.

Right now DSA has 1 vote, so it's not looking good.

>> VOTE HERE <<

You don't need to be a statistician to know which way this vote is falling.

[Data]

Updated RAF, Maverick, and Wingman Packs.  See OP for changes.  Maverick now incorporates homing keys for Colemak and Dvorak layouts -- more keys for the Mavericks!

Created the following new packs:





If I'm missing anything somebody please let me know.

[Oobly]

Hi Data,

Would you consider using "semi-contoured" SA profile like Commando, Calm Depths and Penumbra (1,2,3,3,3,4)?

I own Penumbra and Nuclear Data and I have to say that Penumbra looks way better with the angled numbers and F keys. I like full contour, but I think matching Calm Depths and Commando profiles would really suit this set.

I'm going to vote all Row 3 SA in the poll, though, because I prefer any SA to DSA.

My brother's a pilot, so I'll definitely be ordering this set for him   

[Data]

Hi Data,

Would you consider using "semi-contoured" SA profile like Commando, Calm Depths and Penumbra (1,2,3,3,3,4)?

I own Penumbra and Nuclear Data and I have to say that Penumbra looks way better with the angled numbers and F keys. I like full contour, but I think matching Calm Depths and Commando profiles would really suit this set.

I'm going to vote all Row 3 SA in the poll, though, because I prefer any SA to DSA.

My brother's a pilot, so I'll definitely be ordering this set for him   

I'll ponder it.  Thanks for the suggestion, Oobly.

I'm a little surprised by the outward dislike for DSA after the crazy success of Granite Round 2.

[jdcarpe]

I'm a little surprised by the outward dislike for DSA after the crazy success of Granite Round 2.

Once people start to use DSA, they realize that it's terrible for typing.

I'm not a huge fan of uniform SA, either. Although I think maybe if it were uniform Row 4, it would feel better than uniform Row 3.

[Data]

I'm a little surprised by the outward dislike for DSA after the crazy success of Granite Round 2.

Once people start to use DSA, they realize that it's terrible for typing.

I'm not a huge fan of uniform SA, either. Although I think maybe if it were uniform Row 4, it would feel better than uniform Row 3.

Row 4 seems like a strange choice.  Plus you still have the Row 4 Shifts problem with SP...

Did you notice if I'm missing anything in the JD40 kit?

[jdcarpe]

I'm a little surprised by the outward dislike for DSA after the crazy success of Granite Round 2.

Once people start to use DSA, they realize that it's terrible for typing.

I'm not a huge fan of uniform SA, either. Although I think maybe if it were uniform Row 4, it would feel better than uniform Row 3.

Row 4 seems like a strange choice.  Plus you still have the Row 4 Shifts problem with SP...

Did you notice if I'm missing anything in the JD40 kit?

Uniform row 4 can be seen here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68550.msg1632904#msg1632904


Photo credit: jacobolus


And yes, most of the mods would likely have to be Row 3.


I think you covered everything needed in the JD40 kit.

[Heliosphere]

Uniform row 4 can be seen here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68550.msg1632904#msg1632904

Show Image

Photo credit: jacobolus


And yes, most of the mods would likely have to be Row 3.


I think you covered everything needed in the JD40 kit. :)

Row 4 SA looks interesting. I would be interested in trying that out. Contoured SA would be preferable over row 3 for me.

[jdcarpe]

Row 4 SA looks interesting. I would be interested in trying that out. Contoured SA would be preferable over row 3 for me.

I'm trying to collect enough 1u Row 2/4 SA caps to cover a keyboard, so that I can test how it feels. But I already think it would feel better than uniform Row 3.

If anyone reading this has SA Row 2/4 caps they aren't using (like from a SP grab bag), please send them my way!

[Data]

I'm a little surprised by the outward dislike for DSA after the crazy success of Granite Round 2.

Once people start to use DSA, they realize that it's terrible for typing.

I'm not a huge fan of uniform SA, either. Although I think maybe if it were uniform Row 4, it would feel better than uniform Row 3.

Row 4 seems like a strange choice.  Plus you still have the Row 4 Shifts problem with SP...

Did you notice if I'm missing anything in the JD40 kit?

Uniform row 4 can be seen here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68550.msg1632904#msg1632904

Show Image

Photo credit: jacobolus


And yes, most of the mods would likely have to be Row 3.


I think you covered everything needed in the JD40 kit. :)

That is actually pretty interesting.  What is that, a 20 degree angle?  Kinda steep...   :P

I have to consider the impact on the other kits.  I don't think I'm ready to try something this offbeat (innovative?) with my first group buy, but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't tempting.

[jdcarpe]

That is actually pretty interesting.  What is that, a 20 degree angle?  Kinda steep...   

It's only 7 degrees!

Edit: Oh, you mean the demonstration prop? I'm not sure...jacobolus would know, they are his creation.

[Data]

That is actually pretty interesting.  What is that, a 20 degree angle?  Kinda steep...   

It's only 7 degrees!

Edit: Oh, you mean the demonstration prop? I'm not sure...jacobolus would know, they are his creation.

Oh, I see your edit now.  Yeah, meant the overall prop angle. 

[engicoder]

That is actually pretty interesting.  What is that, a 20 degree angle?  Kinda steep...   

It's only 7 degrees!

Edit: Oh, you mean the demonstration prop? I'm not sure...jacobolus would know, they are his creation.

Show Image

Oh, I see your edit now.  Yeah, meant the overall prop angle.  :D

Most boards have a built in 2 stage variable prop.  ;D

[Data]

That is actually pretty interesting.  What is that, a 20 degree angle?  Kinda steep...   

It's only 7 degrees!

Edit: Oh, you mean the demonstration prop? I'm not sure...jacobolus would know, they are his creation.

Show Image

Oh, I see your edit now.  Yeah, meant the overall prop angle.  :D

Most boards have a built in 2 stage variable prop.  ;D

If we start talking variable prop angle all I'll be able to think about is


:P

[Data]

OK, so here are the novelties I'm working with.  Ignore the blue ones for a second.



The sharper legends are my original drawings.  The "rounder" versions represent what's possible with doubleshot injection molding based on SP's design criteria.  Full credit goes to engicoder for his amazing work on these legends.

They look OK to me.  What do you guys think?

[Heliosphere]

OK, so here are the novelties I'm working with.  Ignore the blue ones for a second.

Show Image

The sharper legends are my original drawings.  The "rounder" versions represent what's possible with doubleshot injection molding based on SP's design criteria.  Full credit goes to engicoder for his amazing work on these legends.

They look OK to me.  What do you guys think?

Looking pretty good. I think I prefer the "fatter" logo if those thin grey details can actually be achieved with good QC. It would look terrible if the yellow lines just blended into each other physically.

[Oobly]

Was there a keyboard with stock SA uniform keycaps ever?

Does this one count?

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=36435.0

"SA" is kind of a Signature Plastics thing, but tall, uniform sphericals have been around at least as long as sculpted rows. I assume that's what you meant.

Note: I am not an expert on this subject.

I think this count as a "stock" keyboard with tall spherical keys ala SA.

Filco sell an SA profile set with stabiliser inserts glued in place (Row 2 for F and number rows, Row 3 all other keys), but I'm not aware of any actual boards that come with it stock.

www.keyboardco.com/product/double_shot_filco_104_key_usa_keyset.asp

[Oobly]

OK, so here are the novelties I'm working with.  Ignore the blue ones for a second.

Show Image

The sharper legends are my original drawings.  The "rounder" versions represent what's possible with doubleshot injection molding based on SP's design criteria.  Full credit goes to engicoder for his amazing work on these legends.

They look OK to me.  What do you guys think?

They look great to me :)

[katushkin]

I really like this. Almost as much as I like Top Gun. Which is a lot.

I'm in if this ever gets through.

[Dihedral]

OK, so here are the novelties I'm working with.  Ignore the blue ones for a second.

Show Image

The sharper legends are my original drawings.  The "rounder" versions represent what's possible with doubleshot injection molding based on SP's design criteria.  Full credit goes to engicoder for his amazing work on these legends.

They look OK to me.  What do you guys think?

I like the leftmost 'wing' design and the top 'star' design.

[jdcarpe]

OK, so here are the novelties I'm working with.  Ignore the blue ones for a second.

Show Image

The sharper legends are my original drawings.  The "rounder" versions represent what's possible with doubleshot injection molding based on SP's design criteria.  Full credit goes to engicoder for his amazing work on these legends.

They look OK to me.  What do you guys think?

I like the leftmost 'wing' design and the top 'star' design.

Those aren't possible with SP's equipment. Which is why he was showing the other ones that engicoder mocked up. :)

[Data]

I really like this. Almost as much as I like Top Gun. Which is a lot.

I'm in if this ever gets through.

Thanks.  Hoping to run it in April or May if the timing looks good.

OK, so here are the novelties I'm working with.  Ignore the blue ones for a second.

Show Image

The sharper legends are my original drawings.  The "rounder" versions represent what's possible with doubleshot injection molding based on SP's design criteria.  Full credit goes to engicoder for his amazing work on these legends.

They look OK to me.  What do you guys think?

I like the leftmost 'wing' design and the top 'star' design.

Left-most "wing" is a go.

Top "star" is the before legend from my Illustrator drawings.  Bottom "star" is the after legend.  These custom legends have to conform to strict design measurements or SP won't accept them.  There are physical limits in the machining (has a lot to do with corners) and the finished tool has to stand up to repeated moldings under high temperature/pressure.  So of the two star designs, bottom is the one closest to the final production appearance.

[Heliosphere]

Left-most "wing" is a go.

Top "star" is the before legend from my Illustrator drawings.  Bottom "star" is the after legend.  These custom legends have to conform to strict design measurements or SP won't accept them.  There are physical limits in the machining (has a lot to do with corners) and the finished tool has to stand up to repeated moldings under high temperature/pressure.  So of the two star designs, bottom is the one closest to the final production appearance.

So is the left wing the "after" or preferred design?

[Data]

Left-most "wing" is a go.

Top "star" is the before legend from my Illustrator drawings.  Bottom "star" is the after legend.  These custom legends have to conform to strict design measurements or SP won't accept them.  There are physical limits in the machining (has a lot to do with corners) and the finished tool has to stand up to repeated moldings under high temperature/pressure.  So of the two star designs, bottom is the one closest to the final production appearance.

So is the left wing the "after" or preferred design?

Yes, the left one is the design that (we're pretty sure) meets SP's criteria.

[Data]

Made a minor change to the JD40 Pack.



I'll probably approach Melissa on Monday to get some rough pricing info on a few of these kits.

[00zeRO]

Due to Data's Danger Zone, my interest for other sets is waning...sadly. I want this set!

[Data]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Zero.

I'm a little worried that it's too much like an inverted Symbiosis or 7bit's Round X.  Definitely want to get those group buys behind us (at least Symbiosis) before I move forward with Danger Zone.

[Data]

Received these numbers back from Melissa today.

TKL Main
25 sets                   $96 per set
50 sets                   $76 per set
75 sets                   $69 per set
100 sets                 $66 per set
150 sets                 $63 per set
200 sets                 $61 per set
250 sets                 $60 per set

Numpad
25 sets                   $30 per set
50 sets                   $22 per set
75 sets                   $20 per set
100 sets                 $18 per set
150 sets                 $17 per set
200 sets                 $16 per set

AeroDox
25 sets                   $50 per set
50 sets                   $40 per set
75 sets                   $37 per set
100 sets                 $35 per set
150 sets                 $33 per set
250 sets                 $32 per set

Wingman
25 sets                   $55 per set
50 sets                   $38 per set
75 sets                   $32 per set
100 sets                 $29 per set
150 sets                 $27 per set
200 sets                 $25 per set
250 sets                 $24 per set

They aren't nearly as bad as I thought.

I got 35 responses to the survey.  29 for SA and 6 for DSA, so that pretty much settles that.  I can't tell if that's really a significant level of interest though.  It feels kinda weak.  Am I just crazy?  Is it the timing?  Is there something I could be doing better?

Still looking for feedback.  I know some people are kinda burned out on this stuff and that's a large part of why I wanted to wait a while.  I'm gonna cross-post this over at DT to measure their interest too.

[engicoder]

I'd wait a couple months. I think there is SA overload right now, plus its tax season.

[Data]

Just playing with color combinations.



Last one uses WFK with the grey mods.

[engicoder]

Just playing with color combinations.

Show Image

Show Image

Last one uses WFK with the grey mods.

I like the second. The white legends on grey for the mods creates a nice contrast to the yellow on blue them. Throw the blue on yellow enter on that set and I think you have something.

[Oobly]

Just playing with color combinations.

Show Image

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Last one uses WFK with the grey mods.

I think I prefer the original.

Also, I second waiting a little before launching this, my wallet hasn't seen such hacking in a long time with all the SA profile sets (Penumbra, Nuclear Data and associated buys, PuLSE, Hack'd by Geeks, 1976, RetroBlight, upcoming Matt3o Retro SA), GON PCBs, etc. It needs some recovery time, after which I am DEFINITELY ordering at least 2 of this set, most likely with RAF and Wingman kits.

[00zeRO]

...Nuclear Data and associated buys

Gollum likes the assssssssossssiated buyssss! Gllm, gllm...they're my pressssioussss...

[EppyKay]

Wow I love this set. Looks like I'll have something to put on my gatereon switches when they come. Are the novelties set in stone? I'd love to see some gpws related caps there. Maybe a red "TERRAIN" cap or a "GLIDESLOPE" cap. "DON'T SINK" would be cool also.

[Data]

Wow I love this set. Looks like I'll have something to put on my gatereon switches when they come. Are the novelties set in stone? I'd love to see some gpws related caps there. Maybe a red "TERRAIN" cap or a "GLIDESLOPE" cap. "DON'T SINK" would be cool also.

No, they're far from set. I could actually use some help on the 1.25u keys. I'm not completely sold on the Hornet, Falcon, etc. Any suggestions from 4-6 characters would be appreciated.

[EppyKay]

I was actually going to ask about those. Is the theme Blue Angels, naval aviation, or military aviation in general? Falcon and Eagle threw me off there. If you stick with the plane names there, I think you should either stick Blue Angels aircraft or carrier aircraft.  So Hornet, Skyhawk, Phantom, and Tiger or Hornet, Tomcat, Phantom, Tiger. Phantom and Skyhawk are too long, though.

[Data]

The kit in question is geared more towards general fighter aircraft. Phantom is one of the legends I tried, but it's too long. I'm actually considering dropping the 1.25u caps because they don't really fit the rest of the set and that would bring the set price down. But I'd consider leaving them if I had some legends that were really awesome.

[EppyKay]

How about missiles then? You can do two AAMs and two ASMs. The AAMs would obviously have to be AIM-9 and AIM-120. As for the ASMs, I's say AGM-65 would be a good bet for one of them, perhaps AGM-84 or AGM-88 for the other. M61A1 or M61A2 could be an option also, or you could just say Vulcan instead. I wouldn't mind a keyboard armed with AMRAMMs and a Vulcan

[Data]

I'll toy with it.  Thanks for the suggestions.

[Elrick]

According to your poll the overwhelming choice of profile seems to be SA, hence you have to re-design the Alphas with centered text.

Haven't seen an upper left hand side placement of text when using the SA profile so keep that in mind when you progress towards PMK's store front.  Nothing worse then designing your key-set for DSA placement only and then it becomes distorted on an SA profile  .