How do you feel about auction threads?

[keymaster]

All the butthurt over clack resales is just envy. First butthurt incident: you lost the drawing or the 4Grabs event. This is absolute proof that the universe is deeply unfair; possibly even openly hostile to you. And then the final indignity: the horrible person(s) who won the clack at the below-market price immediately offers to sell it at a price you either cannot or will not pay. Cloak that envy and butthurt in rage against profit and you can take some solace in the knowledge that you hurt the guy who was luckier than you. Take that unfair universe!

Do you really feel this way? A member (who I won't name unless he wants to be) offered to sell me a CC at cost after he saw one of my posts criticizing the profiteering and auctions on the forum. I politely declined since I'm way more bothered by the bull**** that's flying by here than not having a novelty keycap (which will eventually find its way to me, sooner or later).

For me, this is much bigger than the recent CC raffle. It's an ongoing issue that I see that encompasses not only CCs, but other items such as Korean customs.

[MKULTRA]

All the butthurt over clack resales is just envy. First butthurt incident: you lost the drawing or the 4Grabs event. This is absolute proof that the universe is deeply unfair; possibly even openly hostile to you. And then the final indignity: the horrible person(s) who won the clack at the below-market price immediately offers to sell it at a price you either cannot or will not pay. Cloak that envy and butthurt in rage against profit and you can take some solace in the knowledge that you hurt the guy who was luckier than you. Take that unfair universe!

Do you really feel this way? A member (who I won't name unless he wants to be) offered to sell me a CC at cost after he saw one of my posts criticizing the profiteering and auctions on the forum. I politely declined since I'm way more bothered by the bull**** that's flying by here than not having a novelty keycap (which will eventually find its way to me, sooner or later).

For me, this is much bigger than the recent CC raffle. It's an ongoing issue that I see that encompasses not only CCs, but other items such as Korean customs.

Cause they aren't like any other rare or valuable good?  Nobody complains about comic books or sports memorabilia fetching a pretty penny.

[IPT]

All the butthurt over clack resales is just envy. First butthurt incident: you lost the drawing or the 4Grabs event. This is absolute proof that the universe is deeply unfair; possibly even openly hostile to you. And then the final indignity: the horrible person(s) who won the clack at the below-market price immediately offers to sell it at a price you either cannot or will not pay. Cloak that envy and butthurt in rage against profit and you can take some solace in the knowledge that you hurt the guy who was luckier than you. Take that unfair universe!

Do you really feel this way? A member (who I won't name unless he wants to be) offered to sell me a CC at cost after he saw one of my posts criticizing the profiteering and auctions on the forum. I politely declined since I'm way more bothered by the bull**** that's flying by here than not having a novelty keycap (which will eventually find its way to me, sooner or later).

For me, this is much bigger than the recent CC raffle. It's an ongoing issue that I see that encompasses not only CCs, but other items such as Korean customs.

i've given you examples about how things'll go if you move it over to ebay
people are still gonna discuss about the ebay auctions and **** all over them

Btw, im a bit confused about how you perceive the korean customs value.
Are you saying the korean custom keyboards are being sold significantly above cost?  Or are you just upset they're being sold at a high cost?

Do you remember 2 years ago when any Cherry MX Red keyboard was selling basically for over $200.00?
There were Filco MX Red TKLs going for close to $300.
I assure you that wasn't the price, but there was a shortage of MX Red Keyboards so that was the market price.

It just seems to me you want nothing to do with sales in GH at all.
Which is fine for your opinion, its just not a viable option imo as people are going to be talking about purchases they can find in other areas.

[Photoelectric]

Let's put these Korean customs in perspective.  The markup on those vs group buy price PLUS switches PLUS any other parts and assembly is quite small, percentage wise--in many cases people can just break even or worse.  Clacks, on the other hand, ...dramatic markup.  Not in the same category by a long shot.  So there's no point adding custom keyboards to the list of problems.  They are what they are for a reason.  If you can make one for significantly less, I'm sure we'd all like to see that.

[Melvang]

Let's put these Korean customs in perspective.  The markup on those vs group buy price PLUS switches PLUS any other parts and assembly is quite small, percentage wise--in many cases people can just break even or worse.  Clacks, on the other hand, ...dramatic markup.  Not in the same category by a long shot.  So there's no point adding custom keyboards to the list of problems.  They are what they are for a reason.  If you can make one for significantly less, I'm sure we'd all like to see that.

I would have to agree here

[MKULTRA]

Let's put these Korean customs in perspective.  The markup on those vs group buy price PLUS switches PLUS any other parts and assembly is quite small, percentage wise--in many cases people can just break even or worse.  Clacks, on the other hand, ...dramatic markup.  Not in the same category by a long shot.  So there's no point adding custom keyboards to the list of problems.  They are what they are for a reason.  If you can make one for significantly less, I'm sure we'd all like to see that.

It is quite obvious why there is such a mark up on clacks.

[keymaster]

All the butthurt over clack resales is just envy. First butthurt incident: you lost the drawing or the 4Grabs event. This is absolute proof that the universe is deeply unfair; possibly even openly hostile to you. And then the final indignity: the horrible person(s) who won the clack at the below-market price immediately offers to sell it at a price you either cannot or will not pay. Cloak that envy and butthurt in rage against profit and you can take some solace in the knowledge that you hurt the guy who was luckier than you. Take that unfair universe!

Do you really feel this way? A member (who I won't name unless he wants to be) offered to sell me a CC at cost after he saw one of my posts criticizing the profiteering and auctions on the forum. I politely declined since I'm way more bothered by the bull**** that's flying by here than not having a novelty keycap (which will eventually find its way to me, sooner or later).

For me, this is much bigger than the recent CC raffle. It's an ongoing issue that I see that encompasses not only CCs, but other items such as Korean customs.

i've given you examples about how things'll go if you move it over to ebay
people are still gonna discuss about the ebay auctions and **** all over them

Btw, im a bit confused about how you perceive the korean customs value.
Are you saying the korean custom keyboards are being sold significantly above cost?  Or are you just upset they're being sold at a high cost?

Do you remember 2 years ago when any Cherry MX Red keyboard was selling basically for over $200.00?
There were Filco MX Red TKLs going for close to $300.
I assure you that wasn't the price, but there was a shortage of MX Red Keyboards so that was the market price.

It just seems to me you want nothing to do with sales in GH at all.
Which is fine for your opinion, its just not a viable option imo as people are going to be talking about purchases they can find in other areas.

I'm not sure why you're misinterpreting what I'm saying so I'll clarify a bit. I am not "upset" with Korean keyboards because they are expensive. They are expensive because the material and production cost is expensive, so it makes sense. My problem is with the mark-ups on items such as CCs, Korean customs, and even these MX Red boards 2 years ago. Why can't people just be reasonable and just sell at or near cost? Does making some profit on these items really matter enough to put profit before the community? I've never sold anything with a mark-up. In fact, most of the items I've sold have been around the initial cost or below it. Perhaps I'm too idealistic in a place which many do not share my reasonable buying/selling views.

[IPT]

All the butthurt over clack resales is just envy. First butthurt incident: you lost the drawing or the 4Grabs event. This is absolute proof that the universe is deeply unfair; possibly even openly hostile to you. And then the final indignity: the horrible person(s) who won the clack at the below-market price immediately offers to sell it at a price you either cannot or will not pay. Cloak that envy and butthurt in rage against profit and you can take some solace in the knowledge that you hurt the guy who was luckier than you. Take that unfair universe!

Do you really feel this way? A member (who I won't name unless he wants to be) offered to sell me a CC at cost after he saw one of my posts criticizing the profiteering and auctions on the forum. I politely declined since I'm way more bothered by the bull**** that's flying by here than not having a novelty keycap (which will eventually find its way to me, sooner or later).

For me, this is much bigger than the recent CC raffle. It's an ongoing issue that I see that encompasses not only CCs, but other items such as Korean customs.

i've given you examples about how things'll go if you move it over to ebay
people are still gonna discuss about the ebay auctions and **** all over them

Btw, im a bit confused about how you perceive the korean customs value.
Are you saying the korean custom keyboards are being sold significantly above cost?  Or are you just upset they're being sold at a high cost?

Do you remember 2 years ago when any Cherry MX Red keyboard was selling basically for over $200.00?
There were Filco MX Red TKLs going for close to $300.
I assure you that wasn't the price, but there was a shortage of MX Red Keyboards so that was the market price.

It just seems to me you want nothing to do with sales in GH at all.
Which is fine for your opinion, its just not a viable option imo as people are going to be talking about purchases they can find in other areas.

I'm not sure why you're misinterpreting what I'm saying so I'll clarify a bit. I am not "upset" with Korean keyboards because they are expensive. They are expensive because the material and production cost is expensive, so it makes sense. My problem is with the mark-ups on items such as CCs, Korean customs, and even these MX Red boards 2 years ago. Why can't people just be reasonable and just sell at or near cost? Does making some profit on these items really matter enough to put profit before the community? I've never sold anything with a mark-up. In fact, most of the items I've sold have been around the initial cost or below it. Perhaps I'm too idealistic in a place which many do not share my reasonable buying/selling views.

whats a korean custom if not a korean keyboard?
im confused.

And no offense, in terms of the community from the short time i've been on GH, there's the OG GH members club, the new breed members who banded together with their passion, the a bunch of us enthusiasts but not diehards.

If you've seen my previous posts, i've called out many of the OG old boys club member's hypocrisy many times when it came to sell threads.

Frankly i think you're view of an ideal GH is not realistic.

Anyway, you must be a better man that I am, with your views.
Like i personally tried to get in on the Walmart website price error on video games, a few of my buddies got multiple copies of BF4 and Pokemon for only 19 bucks each.
I myself tried but just got the cancellation email from walmart.

I won't say im not above taking advantage of people/companies i guess.

[keymaster]

whats a korean custom if not a korean keyboard?
im confused.

Anyway, you must be a better man that I am, with your views.
Like i personally tried to get in on the Walmart website price error on video games, a few of my buddies got multiple copies of BF4 and Pokemon for only 19 bucks each.
I myself tried but just got the cancellation email from walmart.

I won't say im not above taking advantage of people/companies i guess.

Yes, Korean custom = Korean custom keyboard

...Walmart. I disagree with the notion that corporations are people. I liken ripping off Walmart as an act of Robin Hood. When it comes to exploitation of workers by a corporation, Walmart is easily one of the worst in the U.S.

GH community members are fellow keyboard hobbyists, however! We should treat each other as such and promote fair buying/selling practices..

[rowdy]

An interesting point earlier was time zones.

If a CC goes for sale at a price I can afford, there is a very high chance that someone overseas will be selling, and someone overseas will buy it before I even become aware of the FS thread.

At least with an auction I have a chance to place a bid.

Unfortunately those with more disposable income than me inevitably (and quickly) raise the price much higher than I can afford.

There I miss out, and have missed out many times recently.

[Krogenar]

This is what i was talking about,  "the world is ****" so its ok to treat people like ****.
Thats a great way to think.

Sadly, I am not the Lathe of Heaven. I'm not making the world into an evil, unfair place where some people win clacks at artificially below-market prices in lotteries, and some people don't win. I'm just pointing out the nature of the universe. When I don't win lotteries I don't cry and declare the world is a bad place, out to get me and rigged to reward others. I shrug and hope for better luck next time, or I scrape together the money to buy the item I want at the actual market price from whomever did win and is willing to sell to me. Some people want to change this basic fact of nature through the power of their collective butthurt.

Solution #1: End 4Grabs and EK lotteries and just sell the clacks at $100 a piece, or at whatever price the market determines. In this scenario, only the people who really, really want one (and have the money) will get one. There would be less butthurt because people who refuse to pay (or cannot pay) will have a much lower chance of getting a clack, but at least the possibility won't be tantalizingly dangled over their faces via a lottery.

Solution #2: Make more clacks. But this is not up to us and is not likely to change. You don't mess with a man's art.

Solution #3: Continue the lotteries so that once in a while, someone who can only afford a $40 price point clack will sometimes receive one. And, accept the fact that sometimes the person who wins the clack will opt to sell it for what it's actually worth instead of at the artificially lowered price set by the (likely) compassionate artist who makes them.

EDIT:

Solution #3a: Continue the lotteries, but the set the price at what the aftermarket prices reflect. You win the lottery, woo-hoo! Now pay the $100 for the clack. Will people still try to sell them for $150? Sure, but their margins will have shrunk, and fewer people will pay that much. Less butthurt.

[SpAmRaY]

Sadly, I am not the Lathe of Heaven. I'm not making the world into an evil.

FLOCK you Krog! You spread the desire for smooth keys and make me want moar!!!! 

PS: IF ANYONE WANTS AN MX FLOCKED SPACEBAR 6.25x I WILL SELL IT FOR $99.99 

And is the world really ending because people are auctioning off clacks, why don't most people realize the best thing to do is PM the people looking for them and work something out, then nobody has to know. No butthurt, you get $$$$ or swag, end of story. Learn people. 

[MKULTRA]

This is what i was talking about,  "the world is ****" so its ok to treat people like ****.
Thats a great way to think.

Sadly, I am not the Lathe of Heaven. I'm not making the world into an evil, unfair place where some people win clacks at artificially below-market prices in lotteries, and some people don't win. I'm just pointing out the nature of the universe. When I don't win lotteries I don't cry and declare the world is a bad place, out to get me and rigged to reward others. I shrug and hope for better luck next time, or I scrape together the money to buy the item I want at the actual market price from whomever did win and is willing to sell to me. Some people want to change this basic fact of nature through the power of their collective butthurt.

Solution #1: End 4Grabs and EK lotteries and just sell the clacks at $100 a piece, or at whatever price the market determines. In this scenario, only the people who really, really want one (and have the money) will get one. There would be less butthurt because people who refuse to pay (or cannot pay) will have a much lower chance of getting a clack, but at least the possibility won't be tantalizingly dangled over their faces via a lottery.

Solution #2: Make more clacks. But this is not up to us and is not likely to change. You don't mess with a man's art.

Solution #3: Continue the lotteries so that once in a while, someone who can only afford a $40 price point clack will sometimes receive one. And, accept the fact that sometimes the person who wins the clack will opt to sell it for what it's actually worth instead of at the artificially lowered price set by the (likely) compassionate artist who makes them.

EDIT:

Solution #3a: Continue the lotteries, but the set the price at what the aftermarket prices reflect. You win the lottery, woo-hoo! Now pay the $100 for the clack. Will people still try to sell them for $150? Sure, but their margins will have shrunk, and fewer people will pay that much. Less butthurt.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[IPT]

whats a korean custom if not a korean keyboard?
im confused.

Anyway, you must be a better man that I am, with your views.
Like i personally tried to get in on the Walmart website price error on video games, a few of my buddies got multiple copies of BF4 and Pokemon for only 19 bucks each.
I myself tried but just got the cancellation email from walmart.

I won't say im not above taking advantage of people/companies i guess.

Yes, Korean custom = Korean custom keyboard

...Walmart. I disagree with the notion that corporations are people. I liken ripping off Walmart as an act of Robin Hood. When it comes to exploitation of workers by a corporation, Walmart is easily one of the worst in the U.S.

GH community members are fellow keyboard hobbyists, however! We should treat each other as such and promote fair buying/selling practices..

see i find this fascinating, you're against the big corporation like walmart and have no problems taking advantage of them.
But I have to ask, who do you think suffers because of the price mistake advantage?
Walmart'll try to maintain their profit margin, so what will they do?  Pass that cost on to their workers and consumers.

Maybe everyone who buys a clack should incorporate themselves 1st, no sale without incorporation proof =)

[Polymer]

Solution #1: End 4Grabs and EK lotteries and just sell the clacks at $100 a piece, or at whatever price the market determines. In this scenario, only the people who really, really want one (and have the money) will get one. There would be less butthurt because people who refuse to pay (or cannot pay) will have a much lower chance of getting a clack, but at least the possibility won't be tantalizingly dangled over their faces via a lottery.

They don't have to go to 100 a piece.  At 50 there will be a smaller margin in there.  At 60 even smaller.  Somewhere in there is a price where people just won't bother to flip because people aren't going to spend limitless money to buy and the margins are too small to be worth it

Of course, it could be there is so much demand that this goes really pear shaped as well but that doesn't look to be the case...

[jdcarpe]

If anyone cares, my crusade to end auctions on Geekhack will not stop until the on-site auctions stop. My motivation has little to do with Clacks.

Auctions are set up for one purpose, and one purpose only. To maximize profit to the seller. Period. Geekhack is not a marketplace, contrary to the opinions of some. Geekhack is a community of keyboard enthusiasts. Auctioning your item to maximize your profits may benefit you, the seller, but it harms the SPIRIT OF COMMUNITY that exists, at least within some members of this community.

So, post your items for sale, not for auction. Set a price for them. If the price is out of line, expect to be called out for it. It's not threadcrapping, it's people who know better trying to inform others that what you are doing is counter to the SPIRIT OF THE COMMUNITY.

Also, I don't need a lesson in economics. I understand quite well how market forces of supply and demand work. BUT THEY HAVE NO PLACE IN THIS COMMUNITY THAT I LOVE. Go peddle your wares elsewhere.

I FREQUENT THIS FORUM BECAUSE I LIKE INTERACTING WITH LIKE-MINDED INDIVIDUALS, AND I HAVE MADE SOME GREAT FRIENDS HERE. I LEARN NEW THINGS ALL THE TIME ABOUT THIS HOBBY. THIS IS FUN FOR ME.

WHAT ISN'T FUN IS SEEING PEOPLE TRY TO MAKE A BUCK, AT THE EXPENSE OF THEIR FELLOW FORUM MEMBER. IF YOU ARE HERE ON GEEKHACK PRIMARILY TO BUY AND SELL THINGS, AND YOU AREN'T A VENDOR WHO IS EXPECTED TO ABIDE BY A SPECIAL TOS, I WOULD PREFER YOU GO SOMEWHERE ELSE FOR THAT PURPOSE, OR SIMPLY GO AWAY.

Of course, this is my very personal statement, which reflects no one's thoughts or opinions but my own. In no way should it be construed as anything official or sanctioned.

[digi]

If anyone cares, my crusade to end auctions on Geekhack will not stop until the on-site auctions stop. My motivation has little to do with Clacks.

Auctions are set up for one purpose, and one purpose only. To maximize profit to the seller. Period. Geekhack is not a marketplace, contrary to the opinions of some. Geekhack is a community of keyboard enthusiasts. Auctioning your item to maximize your profits may benefit you, the seller, but it harms the SPIRIT OF COMMUNITY that exists, at least within some members of this community.

So, post your items for sale, not for auction. Set a price for them. If the price is out of line, expect to be called out for it. It's not threadcrapping, it's people who know better trying to inform others that what you are doing is counter to the SPIRIT OF THE COMMUNITY.

Also, I don't need a lesson in economics. I understand quite well how market forces of supply and demand work. BUT THEY HAVE NO PLACE IN THIS COMMUNITY THAT I LOVE. Go peddle your wares elsewhere.

I FREQUENT THIS FORUM BECAUSE I LIKE INTERACTING WITH LIKE-MINDED INDIVIDUALS, AND I HAVE MADE SOME GREAT FRIENDS HERE. I LEARN NEW THINGS ALL THE TIME ABOUT THIS HOBBY. THIS IS FUN FOR ME.

WHAT ISN'T FUN IS SEEING PEOPLE TRY TO MAKE A BUCK, AT THE EXPENSE OF THEIR FELLOW FORUM MEMBER. IF YOU ARE HERE ON GEEKHACK PRIMARILY TO BUY AND SELL THINGS, AND YOU AREN'T A VENDOR WHO IS EXPECTED TO ABIDE BY A SPECIAL TOS, I WOULD PREFER YOU GO SOMEWHERE ELSE FOR THAT PURPOSE, OR SIMPLY GO AWAY.

Of course, this is my very personal statement, which reflects no one's thoughts or opinions but my own. In no way should it be construed as anything official or sanctioned.

Microsoft Windows? Is that you typing in caps?

[Photoelectric]

I'm not sure why you're misinterpreting what I'm saying so I'll clarify a bit. I am not "upset" with Korean keyboards because they are expensive. They are expensive because the material and production cost is expensive, so it makes sense. My problem is with the mark-ups on items such as CCs, Korean customs, and even these MX Red boards 2 years ago. Why can't people just be reasonable and just sell at or near cost? Does making some profit on these items really matter enough to put profit before the community? I've never sold anything with a mark-up. In fact, most of the items I've sold have been around the initial cost or below it. Perhaps I'm too idealistic in a place which many do not share my reasonable buying/selling views.

Because you continue thinking there's dramatic mark up on custom-made (PCB, metal bodies) Korean keyboards, please point out more than a 30% mark up over group buy price in the past while, when taking into consideration adding switches, stickers, maybe springs, lubrication, in many cases LEDs, resistors, soldering expenses, and shipping.  A KMAK is selling on Originative right now for $400 without shipping.  Add switches and all the jazz to it, and shipping, it's going to sell for at least $500 on the Classifieds to break even.  Do you see them going for $700?  People are very vocal and critical in sale threads with any "overpriced" Korean customs, so those don't happen often.  How about LZ-GH--people are selling at cost or barely breaking even, judging by the past few sales I've been seeing.  There have been very few keyboards going for $600-800, and those usually DO end up on auctions.  We already know that auctions draw compulsive crowd that likes to win no matter the cost, hence this entire thread.  But that doesn't reflect the market overall, as there've been plenty of those custom keyboards sold with very little markup.  It boggles my mind that you'd lump such different things into the same category as Clacks and these keyboards.  The situation with them in terms of resale is not even remotely similar.

[microsoft windows]

I have no feelings about auction threads. If somebody wants to bid on something or run an auction, power to 'em.

[MKULTRA]

If anyone cares, my crusade to end auctions on Geekhack will not stop until the on-site auctions stop. My motivation has little to do with Clacks.

Auctions are set up for one purpose, and one purpose only. To maximize profit to the seller. Period. Geekhack is not a marketplace, contrary to the opinions of some. Geekhack is a community of keyboard enthusiasts. Auctioning your item to maximize your profits may benefit you, the seller, but it harms the SPIRIT OF COMMUNITY that exists, at least within some members of this community.

So, post your items for sale, not for auction. Set a price for them. If the price is out of line, expect to be called out for it. It's not threadcrapping, it's people who know better trying to inform others that what you are doing is counter to the SPIRIT OF THE COMMUNITY.

Also, I don't need a lesson in economics. I understand quite well how market forces of supply and demand work. BUT THEY HAVE NO PLACE IN THIS COMMUNITY THAT I LOVE. Go peddle your wares elsewhere.

I FREQUENT THIS FORUM BECAUSE I LIKE INTERACTING WITH LIKE-MINDED INDIVIDUALS, AND I HAVE MADE SOME GREAT FRIENDS HERE. I LEARN NEW THINGS ALL THE TIME ABOUT THIS HOBBY. THIS IS FUN FOR ME.

WHAT ISN'T FUN IS SEEING PEOPLE TRY TO MAKE A BUCK, AT THE EXPENSE OF THEIR FELLOW FORUM MEMBER. IF YOU ARE HERE ON GEEKHACK PRIMARILY TO BUY AND SELL THINGS, AND YOU AREN'T A VENDOR WHO IS EXPECTED TO ABIDE BY A SPECIAL TOS, I WOULD PREFER YOU GO SOMEWHERE ELSE FOR THAT PURPOSE, OR SIMPLY GO AWAY.

Of course, this is my very personal statement, which reflects no one's thoughts or opinions but my own. In no way should it be construed as anything official or sanctioned.

I actually really understand what you're saying jd, and I am somewhat in agreement.  How do you propose people sell items for which they don't know the real price such as a rare korean custom?  I don't want a bunch of TW threads again.

[jdcarpe]

How do you propose people sell items for which they don't know the real price such as a rare korean custom?  I don't want a bunch of TW threads again.

A post in this thread would probably be helpful to someone looking for a price estimate. Or ask around in the #geekhack IRC channel, as some of the people that hang around in there can provide good information.

[MKULTRA]

How do you propose people sell items for which they don't know the real price such as a rare korean custom?  I don't want a bunch of TW threads again.

A post in this thread would probably be helpful to someone looking for a price estimate. Or ask around in the #geekhack IRC channel, as some of the people that hang around in there can provide good information.

Are you opposed to sales with PM best offer?  Or something of that sort?

[Krogenar]

Auctions are set up for one purpose, and one purpose only. To maximize profit to the seller. Period. Geekhack is not a marketplace, contrary to the opinions of some. Geekhack is a community of keyboard enthusiasts. Auctioning your item to maximize your profits may benefit you, the seller, but it harms the SPIRIT OF COMMUNITY that exists, at least within some members of this community.

What's inherently wrong with trying to maximize your profit? How does someone's normal, natural desire to maximize their profit (or minimize their losses) harm the community?

So, post your items for sale, not for auction. Set a price for them.

Also, I don't need a lesson in economics. I understand quite well how market forces of supply and demand work. BUT THEY HAVE NO PLACE IN THIS COMMUNITY THAT I LOVE. Go peddle your wares elsewhere.

I'm not sure if the "lesson in economics" comment is directed at me or not, but if market forces have no place at Geekhack then close the marketplace entirely. I don't see much of a functional difference between a fairly-run auction and direct pricing where the seller drops the price until someone buys -- the seller is still maximizing their profit (or minimizing their loss). They both achieve the same thing, but by different means.

[keymaster]

I'm not sure why you're misinterpreting what I'm saying so I'll clarify a bit. I am not "upset" with Korean keyboards because they are expensive. They are expensive because the material and production cost is expensive, so it makes sense. My problem is with the mark-ups on items such as CCs, Korean customs, and even these MX Red boards 2 years ago. Why can't people just be reasonable and just sell at or near cost? Does making some profit on these items really matter enough to put profit before the community? I've never sold anything with a mark-up. In fact, most of the items I've sold have been around the initial cost or below it. Perhaps I'm too idealistic in a place which many do not share my reasonable buying/selling views.

Because you continue thinking there's dramatic mark up on custom-made (PCB, metal bodies) Korean keyboards, please point out more than a 30% mark up over group buy price in the past while, when taking into consideration adding switches, stickers, maybe springs, lubrication, in many cases LEDs, resistors, soldering expenses, and shipping.  A KMAK is selling on Originative right now for $400 without shipping.  Add switches and all the jazz to it, and shipping, it's going to sell for at least $500 on the Classifieds to break even.  Do you see them going for $700?  People are very vocal and critical in sale threads with any "overpriced" Korean customs, so those don't happen often.  How about LZ-GH--people are selling at cost or barely breaking even, judging by the past few sales I've been seeing.  There have been very few keyboards going for $600-800, and those usually DO end up on auctions.  We already know that auctions draw compulsive crowd that likes to win no matter the cost, hence this entire thread.  But that doesn't reflect the market overall, as there've been plenty of those custom keyboards sold with very little markup.  It boggles my mind that you'd lump such different things into the same category as Clacks and these keyboards.  The situation with them in terms of resale is not even remotely similar.

Don't let it boggle your mind. Its pretty simple because like you said, most of the overpriced Korean customs do happen in auctions. That is why we are trying to end them.

[MKULTRA]

I'm not sure why you're misinterpreting what I'm saying so I'll clarify a bit. I am not "upset" with Korean keyboards because they are expensive. They are expensive because the material and production cost is expensive, so it makes sense. My problem is with the mark-ups on items such as CCs, Korean customs, and even these MX Red boards 2 years ago. Why can't people just be reasonable and just sell at or near cost? Does making some profit on these items really matter enough to put profit before the community? I've never sold anything with a mark-up. In fact, most of the items I've sold have been around the initial cost or below it. Perhaps I'm too idealistic in a place which many do not share my reasonable buying/selling views.

Because you continue thinking there's dramatic mark up on custom-made (PCB, metal bodies) Korean keyboards, please point out more than a 30% mark up over group buy price in the past while, when taking into consideration adding switches, stickers, maybe springs, lubrication, in many cases LEDs, resistors, soldering expenses, and shipping.  A KMAK is selling on Originative right now for $400 without shipping.  Add switches and all the jazz to it, and shipping, it's going to sell for at least $500 on the Classifieds to break even.  Do you see them going for $700?  People are very vocal and critical in sale threads with any "overpriced" Korean customs, so those don't happen often.  How about LZ-GH--people are selling at cost or barely breaking even, judging by the past few sales I've been seeing.  There have been very few keyboards going for $600-800, and those usually DO end up on auctions.  We already know that auctions draw compulsive crowd that likes to win no matter the cost, hence this entire thread.  But that doesn't reflect the market overall, as there've been plenty of those custom keyboards sold with very little markup.  It boggles my mind that you'd lump such different things into the same category as Clacks and these keyboards.  The situation with them in terms of resale is not even remotely similar.

Don't let it boggle your mind. Its pretty simple because like you said, most of the overpriced Korean customs do happen in auctions. That is why we are trying to end them.

Lets see some examples.

[jdcarpe]

What's inherently wrong with trying to maximize your profit? How does someone's normal, natural desire to maximize their profit (or minimize their losses) harm the community?

Nothing, if you're on the board of directors at a corporation. This community isn't a corporation. Profiteering is bringing out the worst in people, and adding nothing to the community. You really can't see this firsthand, or was this a rhetorical question?

I'm not sure if the "lesson in economics" comment is directed at me or not, but if market forces have no place at Geekhack then close the marketplace entirely. I don't see much of a functional difference between a fairly-run auction and direct pricing where the seller drops the price until someone buys -- the seller is still maximizing their profit (or minimizing their loss). They both achieve the same thing, but by different means.

Nope. Wasn't directed at you, or anyone in particular. I simply tire of people thinking that because I want the community to grow and prosper, and therefore hold to my ideal view of this forum as a community of members who are here to help and support each other, rather than to profit from opportunity, that I am somehow lacking in intelligence.

[SpAmRaY]

I'm not sure why you're misinterpreting what I'm saying so I'll clarify a bit. I am not "upset" with Korean keyboards because they are expensive. They are expensive because the material and production cost is expensive, so it makes sense. My problem is with the mark-ups on items such as CCs, Korean customs, and even these MX Red boards 2 years ago. Why can't people just be reasonable and just sell at or near cost? Does making some profit on these items really matter enough to put profit before the community? I've never sold anything with a mark-up. In fact, most of the items I've sold have been around the initial cost or below it. Perhaps I'm too idealistic in a place which many do not share my reasonable buying/selling views.

Because you continue thinking there's dramatic mark up on custom-made (PCB, metal bodies) Korean keyboards, please point out more than a 30% mark up over group buy price in the past while, when taking into consideration adding switches, stickers, maybe springs, lubrication, in many cases LEDs, resistors, soldering expenses, and shipping.  A KMAK is selling on Originative right now for $400 without shipping.  Add switches and all the jazz to it, and shipping, it's going to sell for at least $500 on the Classifieds to break even.  Do you see them going for $700?  People are very vocal and critical in sale threads with any "overpriced" Korean customs, so those don't happen often.  How about LZ-GH--people are selling at cost or barely breaking even, judging by the past few sales I've been seeing.  There have been very few keyboards going for $600-800, and those usually DO end up on auctions.  We already know that auctions draw compulsive crowd that likes to win no matter the cost, hence this entire thread.  But that doesn't reflect the market overall, as there've been plenty of those custom keyboards sold with very little markup.  It boggles my mind that you'd lump such different things into the same category as Clacks and these keyboards.  The situation with them in terms of resale is not even remotely similar.

Don't let it boggle your mind. Its pretty simple because like you said, most of the overpriced Korean customs do happen in auctions. That is why we are trying to end them.

Lets see some examples.

what about those listoki boards or whatever they were? I think he only came here to sell things instead of kbdmania where they know how much those boards cost.

[Moosecraft]

All I have to say right now is JD for president

[keymaster]

I'm not sure why you're misinterpreting what I'm saying so I'll clarify a bit. I am not "upset" with Korean keyboards because they are expensive. They are expensive because the material and production cost is expensive, so it makes sense. My problem is with the mark-ups on items such as CCs, Korean customs, and even these MX Red boards 2 years ago. Why can't people just be reasonable and just sell at or near cost? Does making some profit on these items really matter enough to put profit before the community? I've never sold anything with a mark-up. In fact, most of the items I've sold have been around the initial cost or below it. Perhaps I'm too idealistic in a place which many do not share my reasonable buying/selling views.

Because you continue thinking there's dramatic mark up on custom-made (PCB, metal bodies) Korean keyboards, please point out more than a 30% mark up over group buy price in the past while, when taking into consideration adding switches, stickers, maybe springs, lubrication, in many cases LEDs, resistors, soldering expenses, and shipping.  A KMAK is selling on Originative right now for $400 without shipping.  Add switches and all the jazz to it, and shipping, it's going to sell for at least $500 on the Classifieds to break even.  Do you see them going for $700?  People are very vocal and critical in sale threads with any "overpriced" Korean customs, so those don't happen often.  How about LZ-GH--people are selling at cost or barely breaking even, judging by the past few sales I've been seeing.  There have been very few keyboards going for $600-800, and those usually DO end up on auctions.  We already know that auctions draw compulsive crowd that likes to win no matter the cost, hence this entire thread.  But that doesn't reflect the market overall, as there've been plenty of those custom keyboards sold with very little markup.  It boggles my mind that you'd lump such different things into the same category as Clacks and these keyboards.  The situation with them in terms of resale is not even remotely similar.

Don't let it boggle your mind. Its pretty simple because like you said, most of the overpriced Korean customs do happen in auctions. That is why we are trying to end them.

Lets see some examples.

Sure. Here are some by one of the moderators of this forum.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47112.msg1000155#msg1000155
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44764.msg929824#msg929824
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37594.msg718227#msg718227

The point here is that it does happen, no matter how often or by more or less profit than the sales of CCs. It shouldn't happen at all.

[MKULTRA]

I'm not sure why you're misinterpreting what I'm saying so I'll clarify a bit. I am not "upset" with Korean keyboards because they are expensive. They are expensive because the material and production cost is expensive, so it makes sense. My problem is with the mark-ups on items such as CCs, Korean customs, and even these MX Red boards 2 years ago. Why can't people just be reasonable and just sell at or near cost? Does making some profit on these items really matter enough to put profit before the community? I've never sold anything with a mark-up. In fact, most of the items I've sold have been around the initial cost or below it. Perhaps I'm too idealistic in a place which many do not share my reasonable buying/selling views.

Because you continue thinking there's dramatic mark up on custom-made (PCB, metal bodies) Korean keyboards, please point out more than a 30% mark up over group buy price in the past while, when taking into consideration adding switches, stickers, maybe springs, lubrication, in many cases LEDs, resistors, soldering expenses, and shipping.  A KMAK is selling on Originative right now for $400 without shipping.  Add switches and all the jazz to it, and shipping, it's going to sell for at least $500 on the Classifieds to break even.  Do you see them going for $700?  People are very vocal and critical in sale threads with any "overpriced" Korean customs, so those don't happen often.  How about LZ-GH--people are selling at cost or barely breaking even, judging by the past few sales I've been seeing.  There have been very few keyboards going for $600-800, and those usually DO end up on auctions.  We already know that auctions draw compulsive crowd that likes to win no matter the cost, hence this entire thread.  But that doesn't reflect the market overall, as there've been plenty of those custom keyboards sold with very little markup.  It boggles my mind that you'd lump such different things into the same category as Clacks and these keyboards.  The situation with them in terms of resale is not even remotely similar.

Don't let it boggle your mind. Its pretty simple because like you said, most of the overpriced Korean customs do happen in auctions. That is why we are trying to end them.

Lets see some examples.

Sure. Here are some by one of the moderators of this forum.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47112.msg1000155#msg1000155
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44764.msg929824#msg929824
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37594.msg718227#msg718227

The point here is that it does happen, no matter how often or by more or less profit than the sales of CCs. It shouldn't happen at all.

That KMAC went for a lot lower than it should have considering you can get a new one for $410 and it came with keycaps.  The Pla Poker was a ****ing steal.  LZSE is an extremely rare keyboard and even though it cost a lot less originally, its value has risen over time and obviously Meiosis felt it was a worthwhile purchase. 

[keymaster]

Okay, we obviously don't see eye to eye on a very simple thing and that is whether or not members should be able to maximize profits in their sales to other members. If we don't agree that it's wrong, then there's no need to continue the argument I'm making here.

[MKULTRA]

Okay, we obviously don't see eye to eye on a very simple thing and that is whether or not members should be able to maximize profits in their sales to other members. If we don't agree that it's wrong, then there's no need to continue the argument I'm making here.

Dude you know he didn't make money on those sales right?  There was no profiteering.

[keymaster]

Okay, we obviously don't see eye to eye on a very simple thing and that is whether or not members should be able to maximize profits in their sales to other members. If we don't agree that it's wrong, then there's no need to continue the argument I'm making here.

Dude you know he didn't make money on those sales right?  There was no profiteering.

$700 for a LZSE? Also, did you completely overlook all the other items he sold for obnoxious amounts?

KMAC II Current Bid -  $460 GeeGee
Pla Poker Current Bid -  $350 Meiosis
LZSE Current Bid -  $700 Meiosis

0. Salute Tri - $300 i488
1A. Tanslucent Ice Blue - $400 sleepy916
1B. Candy Corn Skull - $220 domoaligato
1C. OG Tri - $250 Forsythe
1D. Jack o' Lantern - $370  sleepy916
1E. Mr Friday - $250  evolyn
1F. Metalic Blue (it shines!) - $160 jcrouse
1G. 3D - $105 Smeagol_RP
1H. 3D -  $180 Respite
1I. Yolk Yellow - $160  jcrouse
1J. Dark yolk yellow? -  $150 jcrouse
1K. Guac/alvacardo green - $130 ekw808
1L. Tickle me Pink - $180 jcrouse
1M. Army/Machine Green - $225  ekw808
1N. EK Grey - $130  winzds
1O. Midnight Blue -  $175 jcrouse
1P. Hack Orange -  $105 GeeGee
1Q. 420 sticky icky icky Toasted Black/Green/White-  $125 whiteduck
1R. 420 sticky icky icky Toasted Green/Red/Yellow - $85  KangarooZombies
1S. 420 sticky icky O'Natural Yellow/Red -  $115  TheBinary
1T. 420 sticky icky O'Natural Black/Pink -  $125 whiteduck

2A. EK Red F2 -  $85 Kabuks
2B. EK Blue F2 -  $115 TheBinary
2C. Dark Lord - $155 jalaj

3A. Mint green WASD - $75 GeeGee
3B. Candy corn Arrows -  $165 domoaligato

4A. Translucent Pink  -  $75 HendyZone
4B. Translucent Violet - $170 blabber86

[Krogenar]

What's inherently wrong with trying to maximize your profit? How does someone's normal, natural desire to maximize their profit (or minimize their losses) harm the community?

Nothing, if you're on the board of directors at a corporation. This community isn't a corporation. Profiteering is bringing out the worst in people, and adding nothing to the community. You really can't see this firsthand, or was this a rhetorical question?

How do you distinguish between 'profiteering' (excessive profit) and market transactions that are acceptable? I don't see the harm in letting someone pay $400 for something that I only think is worth $40. It's their money, and their decision as an adult to accept that price. Also, 'you really can't see this firsthand'? -- I can see the irritation of some members, jd, but I don't think it justifies ending auctions. If the buyer and seller are both satisfied, then where's the problem?

Also, the fact that geekhack is not a corporation is irrelevant; market forces are at work whenever people trade anything for value.

I'm not sure if the "lesson in economics" comment is directed at me or not, but if market forces have no place at Geekhack then close the marketplace entirely. I don't see much of a functional difference between a fairly-run auction and direct pricing where the seller drops the price until someone buys -- the seller is still maximizing their profit (or minimizing their loss). They both achieve the same thing, but by different means.

Nope. Wasn't directed at you, or anyone in particular. I simply tire of people thinking that because I want the community to grow and prosper, and therefore hold to my ideal view of this forum as a community of members who are here to help and support each other, rather than to profit from opportunity, that I am somehow lacking in intelligence.

Someone with your list of accomplishments has no reason to think anyone doubts your intelligence. I, like you, want Geekhack to grow and prosper. And I don't think the people who want to end auctions, end the marketplace, or regulate it to death, etc. are stupid. I think their ideas are bad for Geekhack. Most of the transactions at Geekhack are profitable to both parties. The offended parties, it seems to me, are third parties, observers of the transactions who are deeply offended anyway. Their irritation in my view is unjustified, but still, they are my fellow GHers, and if we can reduce their irritation then we should try. But I don't think there would be any way to do so; if people are determined to be offended, they will be.

I will openly and willingly apologize, however, for using the term "butthurt" so many times. That's not helping the discussion. 

I'm in agreement with your position on "threadcrapping" which is used as a way to prevent people (the market) from determining what's a reasonable price. I'm glad you love Geekhack. I love this place too -- and if the market here is distorted I believe it will be bad for Geekhack. Markets are natural outgrowths of healthy communities. Anything that allows for a vigorous, free, fraud-free marketplace I support.

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

Y'all need logic.

[jdcarpe]

The past is past, and all we have is the present, and what we will do in the future. We can't change the fact that items have been auctioned, and that profiteering is causing much drama on the forum right now. All we can do is take a stand, and say, "NO MORE." That's where I'm trying to get. It's pointless to argue over sales and auctions that have already occurred, when what we need to be doing is forging the new path going forward. Let's refuse to be part of the problem any longer. You do not have to accept the status quo. We can turn this around right here and now. That's the point of this whole thread, not the bickering.

If we can agree that a consensus exists to move auctions off-site, then we are getting somewhere. It's the start of moving the forum back in the right direction.

[Photoelectric]

Sure. Here are some by one of the moderators of this forum.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47112.msg1000155#msg1000155
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44764.msg929824#msg929824
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37594.msg718227#msg718227

The point here is that it does happen, no matter how often or by more or less profit than the sales of CCs. It shouldn't happen at all.

The second link is not an auction--it's a normal sale thread.  There's only one "overpriced" Korean Custom out of those 3 threads, and it's LZ-SE, which is for whatever reason one of the most desirable customs.  Even so, say it normally went for $550--this is an auction, and as discussed, people overbid on rare items.  We don't disagree with you that auctions promote poor decisions.  I was only trying to set the record straight that on average--really in most cases--Korean customs are not overpriced on the classifieds vs. their group buy price + assembly and everything in between.  Clacks are ALWAYS overpriced--in auctions or not.  There are only a relative handful of LZ-SEs, but there are LOTS of Clacks out there in all sorts of colors, and they get overpriced by at least 300%.  Usually more like 400% and up.  Do you know what a KMAK would cost at a 400% markup?  Something like $2000+.  That's to put it in perspective.  You could say that it's not the same thing in monetary value, but then Clacks are small pieces of plastic, and Korean customs are complex kits with a lot more work that went into them, so it becomes very subjective when someone adds a $100 or so on top of the GB price because of any modifications and such.  I consider that perfectly acceptable, as someone who appreciates getting good deals and does not have a high budget for hobbies.  Because I know how much money can go into what seems like small modifications--and even shipping.

[keymaster]

Sure. Here are some by one of the moderators of this forum.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47112.msg1000155#msg1000155
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44764.msg929824#msg929824
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37594.msg718227#msg718227

The point here is that it does happen, no matter how often or by more or less profit than the sales of CCs. It shouldn't happen at all.

The second link is not an auction--it's a normal sale thread.  There's only one "overpriced" Korean Custom out of those 3 threads, and it's LZ-SE, which is for whatever reason one of the most desirable customs.  Even so, say it normally went for $550--this is an auction, and as discussed, people overbid on rare items.  We don't disagree with you that auctions promote poor decisions.  I was only trying to set the record straight that on average--really in most cases--Korean customs are not overpriced on the classifieds vs. their group buy price + assembly and everything in between.  Clacks are ALWAYS overpriced--in auctions or not.  There are only a relative handful of LZ-SEs, but there are LOTS of Clacks out there in all sorts of colors, and they get overpriced by at least 300%.  Usually more like 400% and up.  Do you know what a KMAK would cost at a 400% markup?  Something like $2000+.  That's to put it in perspective.  You could say that it's not the same thing in monetary value, but then Clacks are small pieces of plastic, and Korean customs are complex kits with a lot more work that went into them, so it becomes very subjective when someone adds a $100 or so on top of the GB price because of any modifications and such.  I consider that perfectly acceptable, as someone who appreciates getting good deals and does not have a high budget for hobbies.

I don't disagree that the overpricing of Korean customs doesn't happen nearly as much as CCs. I was never trying to make that claim but rather state that it does happen. Because it does happen on occasion is still a problem.

[TheFlyingRaccoon]

The past is past, and all we have is the present, and what we will do in the future. We can't change the fact that items have been auctioned, and that profiteering is causing much drama on the forum right now. All we can do is take a stand, and say, "NO MORE." That's where I'm trying to get. It's pointless to argue over sales and auctions that have already occurred, when what we need to be doing is forging the new path going forward. Let's refuse to be part of the problem any longer. You do not have to accept the status quo. We can turn this around right here and now. That's the point of this whole thread, not the bickering.

If we can agree that a consensus exists to move auctions off-site, then we are getting somewhere. It's the start of moving the forum back in the right direction.

Yes!

[SpAmRaY]

So if someone bought a 'wdiget' for $300, regardless of what everyone thinks it 'cost' will they be shamed for trying to sell said 'widget' at the price they purchased it?

[Photoelectric]

I don't disagree that the overpricing of Korean customs doesn't happen nearly as much as CCs. I was never trying to make that claim but rather state that it does happen. Because it does happen on occasion is still a problem.

If you're going to generalize like that, you need more solid examples and some statistics.  We can all agree about Clacks, because they are Always overpriced, regardless of auctions.  But you need to back yourself up when talking about other items.  A handful of occasions is not going to make your case, because there are so many sales going on on the Classifieds, 1% of sales is not a problem.  Those keycaps you linked in the last thread are a great example of something very overpriced because of an auction, however.

[ITzNybble]

The past is past, and all we have is the present, and what we will do in the future. We can't change the fact that items have been auctioned, and that profiteering is causing much drama on the forum right now. All we can do is take a stand, and say, "NO MORE." That's where I'm trying to get. It's pointless to argue over sales and auctions that have already occurred, when what we need to be doing is forging the new path going forward. Let's refuse to be part of the problem any longer. You do not have to accept the status quo. We can turn this around right here and now. That's the point of this whole thread, not the bickering.

If we can agree that a consensus exists to move auctions off-site, then we are getting somewhere. It's the start of moving the forum back in the right direction.

I agree.

[jdcarpe]

So if someone bought a 'wdiget' for $300, regardless of what everyone thinks it 'cost' will they be shamed for trying to sell said 'widget' at the price they purchased it?

Now you begin to see the problem.

[IPT]

So if someone bought a 'wdiget' for $300, regardless of what everyone thinks it 'cost' will they be shamed for trying to sell said 'widget' at the price they purchased it?

Now you begin to see the problem.

personally i really don't see the problem lol.

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

So if someone bought a 'wdiget' for $300, regardless of what everyone thinks it 'cost' will they be shamed for trying to sell said 'widget' at the price they purchased it?

Now you begin to see the problem.

personally i really don't see the problem lol.

Widgets:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=YlVDGmjz7eM#t=62

[jdcarpe]

We can all agree about Clacks, because they are Always overpriced, regardless of auctions.

Oh really? I don't sell Clacks, because I won't sell them at inflated prices. When I value them for trading non-Clack items, I always consider the value at retail cost. Am I a fool for doing so? Maybe. But you can't say ALWAYS, either.

[keymaster]

I don't disagree that the overpricing of Korean customs doesn't happen nearly as much as CCs. I was never trying to make that claim but rather state that it does happen. Because it does happen on occasion is still a problem.

If you're going to generalize like that, you need more solid examples and some statistics.  We can all agree about Clacks, because they are Always overpriced, regardless of auctions.  But you need to back yourself up when talking about other items.  A handful of occasions is not going to make your case, because there are so many sales going on on the Classifieds, 1% of sales is not a problem.  Those keycaps you linked in the last thread are a great example of something very overpriced because of an auction, however.

Lol, I'm not going to search dozens of pages looking for overpriced Korean customs. I've seen it happen and so have others -- it's no secret. While the obvious culprit of the need to get rid of auctions from this forum are CCs, any kind of overpriced item such as Korean customs or even $20 Beast switch tool (yes, really) should not be tolerated.

I'm done beating a dead horse with this.

tl;dr = Auctions cause overpriced items, mostly CCs but including Korean customs and other items.

[IPT]

So if someone bought a 'wdiget' for $300, regardless of what everyone thinks it 'cost' will they be shamed for trying to sell said 'widget' at the price they purchased it?

Now you begin to see the problem.

personally i really don't see the problem lol.

Widgets:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=YlVDGmjz7eM#t=62

everyone loves widgets!

[SpAmRaY]

I don't disagree that the overpricing of Korean customs doesn't happen nearly as much as CCs. I was never trying to make that claim but rather state that it does happen. Because it does happen on occasion is still a problem.

If you're going to generalize like that, you need more solid examples and some statistics.  We can all agree about Clacks, because they are Always overpriced, regardless of auctions.  But you need to back yourself up when talking about other items.  A handful of occasions is not going to make your case, because there are so many sales going on on the Classifieds, 1% of sales is not a problem.  Those keycaps you linked in the last thread are a great example of something very overpriced because of an auction, however.

Lol, I'm not going to search dozens of pages looking for overpriced Korean customs. I've seen it happen and so have others -- it's no secret. While the obvious culprit of the need to get rid of auctions from this forum are CCs, any kind of overpriced item such as Korean customs or even $20 Beast switch tool (yes, really) should not be tolerated.

I'm done beating a dead horse with this.

tl;dr = Auctions cause overpriced items, mostly CCs but including Korean customs and other items.

$20 beast tools are overpriced? I mean if you got them for $14-16, shipping is ~$2 (bubble mailer usps first class) so your talking ~$17 if you've got a bubble mailer already....$3 too much profit??

It costs me more than $3 to drive to the post office.

[Krogenar]

So if someone bought a 'widget' for $300, regardless of what everyone thinks it 'cost' will they be shamed for trying to sell said 'widget' at the price they purchased it?

Did they buy the widget at $300, but everyone (except for them) realized it was only worth $100? Are they now trying to minimize their losses by finding another person who doesn't know better? I wouldn't want to "shame" anyone, I would just increase and facilitate the market's ability to communicate. Let people say, "$300? Seems a bit high." That would be more likely to prevent the original buyer from being suckered, and ... well, wait -- that is shaming. If the original seller posted it at $300, and it was acceptable for people to debate that price in the seller's thread, then doesn't that discussion amount to "shaming" but without the negative connotation?

Discussion in sales threads (in a polite way) would reduce the likelihood of profiteering and ignorant buyers.