Denver or bust!
Looks like we need three KeyCons. East, west, and central.
Looks like we need three KeyCons. East, west, and central.i like this idea, but i'm also not opposed to smaller scale meetups. real life bonding only strengthens our community, no matter how it happens. it's awesome to have a huge event every once in a while, but don't think you need to match or surpass the scale of keycon just to say howdy to other people in the community that are near you. we are all friends and family here.
Can I suggest London
Australia?
Looks like we need three KeyCons. East, west, and central.
No east coast luv
Seriously guys, just do meet ups. They don't have to be hella official. They can be you and one dude nerding out about boards and talking about GH. Just because I'm crazy/lucky to have gone to more publicised meetups doesn't mean those are the only ones I've done. I've met up one-on-one with some local GHers, just meet your friends or some GHers. It's always a good time.
That being said, Keycon West? I'm 90% sure I'll be there. And I'll tell demik in person how amazing the East Coast really is. And I'd love to do more meets. Who wants to hang out? Let's make moves.
I agree with you both and think these are not mutually exclusive ideas. Have one (or a few, by region) huge event(s) called KeyCon Whatever, and have small local meetups because who doesn't enjoy seeing people even more and local?Seriously guys, just do meet ups. They don't have to be hella official. They can be you and one dude nerding out about boards and talking about GH. Just because I'm crazy/lucky to have gone to more publicised meetups doesn't mean those are the only ones I've done. I've met up one-on-one with some local GHers, just meet your friends or some GHers. It's always a good time.
That being said, Keycon West? I'm 90% sure I'll be there. And I'll tell demik in person how amazing the East Coast really is. And I'd love to do more meets. Who wants to hang out? Let's make moves.
It's probably better to do one large meetup every now and again where as many can attend as possible, rather than an endless series of small gatherings with maybe only a hanf-dozen people at each one.
Who wants to hang out? Let's make moves.Sooo...wanna come to Wisconsin this weekend? :))
Why not both?
/me shrugs
You might be right but I'm crazy and I show up to everything. You might find me in your neck of the woods sometime soon rowdy :P
Seriously guys, just do meet ups. They don't have to be hella official. They can be you and one dude nerding out about boards and talking about GH. Just because I'm crazy/lucky to have gone to more publicised meetups doesn't mean those are the only ones I've done. I've met up one-on-one with some local GHers, just meet your friends or some GHers. It's always a good time.
That being said, Keycon West? I'm 90% sure I'll be there. And I'll tell demik in person how amazing the East Coast really is. And I'd love to do more meets. Who wants to hang out? Let's make moves.
Why not both?
If someone goes to a couple of smaller local meetups, they are probably less likely to travel a bit further to go to a large meetup.
I've seen that quite a few times - the more small events you have, the less people go to each one, until it is only a couple of people turning up, and no-one bothers doing them any more.
If it is a yearly or twice yearly large central event with special promotions and guest speakers and pizza, then more people are likely to go out of their way to turn up.
I fear that if we start attaching "KeyCon" to everything (like I did earlier. oops.), it could water down the big gathering concept. The community could do a couple things on a larger scale every year that brings together presentations, speakers, promotions, folks flying in from all over the country. But I am wary about getting too ambitious too quickly.
You forgot the most important one.I fear that if we start attaching "KeyCon" to everything (like I did earlier. oops.), it could water down the big gathering concept. The community could do a couple things on a larger scale every year that brings together presentations, speakers, promotions, folks flying in from all over the country. But I am wary about getting too ambitious too quickly.
Ideas for smaller meets:
KeyMeet
KeyRally
KeyPowWow
KeyGet (Together)
KeyAss(embly)
I fear that if we start attaching "KeyCon" to everything (like I did earlier. oops.), it could water down the big gathering concept. The community could do a couple things on a larger scale every year that brings together presentations, speakers, promotions, folks flying in from all over the country. But I am wary about getting too ambitious too quickly.
Ideas for smaller meets:
KeyMeet
KeyRally
KeyPowWow
KeyGet (Together)
KeyAss(embly)
You forgot the most important one.I fear that if we start attaching "KeyCon" to everything (like I did earlier. oops.), it could water down the big gathering concept. The community could do a couple things on a larger scale every year that brings together presentations, speakers, promotions, folks flying in from all over the country. But I am wary about getting too ambitious too quickly.
Ideas for smaller meets:
KeyMeet
KeyRally
KeyPowWow
KeyGet (Together)
KeyAss(embly)
KeyCamp
KeyCamp is going to be the 3-day weekend overnight bootcamp that I hold at the local state forest to introduce newbs to all things keyboards.
Seriously guys, just do meet ups. They don't have to be hella official. They can be you and one dude nerding out about boards and talking about GH. Just because I'm crazy/lucky to have gone to more publicised meetups doesn't mean those are the only ones I've done. I've met up one-on-one with some local GHers, just meet your friends or some GHers. It's always a good time.
That being said, Keycon West? I'm 90% sure I'll be there. And I'll tell demik in person how amazing the East Coast really is. And I'd love to do more meets. Who wants to hang out? Let's make moves.
I agree with this sentiment. Too many Keycons would water down the whole concept of an annual gathering. Here I am, eating my earlier words about three Keycons.
I like that Vegas idea. I am not familiar with how CES works, but having a keyboard presence there would be interesting.
BUt, I've found smaller meetups is where you really get to know each other and befriend offline.
Larger events turn to conferences and is more "official"
I'd really like this to be an annual thing that takes place in Chicago since it's pretty easy for me since it isn't too far (like $50 in gas round trip) and free lodging. I don't think I could go if it were any further....
I'd really like this to be an annual thing that takes place in Chicago since it's pretty easy for me since it isn't too far (like $50 in gas round trip) and free lodging. I don't think I could go if it were any further....
>easy for ME
Do you really think geekhack revolves around you dude...
I'd really like this to be an annual thing that takes place in Chicago since it's pretty easy for me since it isn't too far (like $50 in gas round trip) and free lodging. I don't think I could go if it were any further....
I'd much rather a west coast meetup, there's actually things to do there.
I'd much rather a west coast meetup, there's actually things to do there.
Smoke crack and get beat up by cops?
I'd much rather a west coast meetup, there's actually things to do there.
Smoke crack and get beat up by cops?
alongside my favorite mod JesusWasAZombie.
I'd much rather a west coast meetup, there's actually things to do there.
Smoke crack and get beat up by cops?
whoa whoa whoa..
you're really giving cali **** when you went to chicago? home of homicide?
WOAHYou forgot the most important one.I fear that if we start attaching "KeyCon" to everything (like I did earlier. oops.), it could water down the big gathering concept. The community could do a couple things on a larger scale every year that brings together presentations, speakers, promotions, folks flying in from all over the country. But I am wary about getting too ambitious too quickly.
Ideas for smaller meets:
KeyMeet
KeyRally
KeyPowWow
KeyGet (Together)
KeyAss(embly)
KeyCamp
KeyCamp is going to be the 3-day weekend overnight bootcamp that I hold at the local state forest to introduce newbs to all things keyboards.
WOAHYou forgot the most important one.I fear that if we start attaching "KeyCon" to everything (like I did earlier. oops.), it could water down the big gathering concept. The community could do a couple things on a larger scale every year that brings together presentations, speakers, promotions, folks flying in from all over the country. But I am wary about getting too ambitious too quickly.
Ideas for smaller meets:
KeyMeet
KeyRally
KeyPowWow
KeyGet (Together)
KeyAss(embly)
KeyCamp
KeyCamp is going to be the 3-day weekend overnight bootcamp that I hold at the local state forest to introduce newbs to all things keyboards.
WOAHYou forgot the most important one.I fear that if we start attaching "KeyCon" to everything (like I did earlier. oops.), it could water down the big gathering concept. The community could do a couple things on a larger scale every year that brings together presentations, speakers, promotions, folks flying in from all over the country. But I am wary about getting too ambitious too quickly.
Ideas for smaller meets:
KeyMeet
KeyRally
KeyPowWow
KeyGet (Together)
KeyAss(embly)
KeyCamp
KeyCamp is going to be the 3-day weekend overnight bootcamp that I hold at the local state forest to introduce newbs to all things keyboards.
Including Self Defence 101 - How To Defend Yourself Against A Raging Bear Armed Only With A Model M?
Is kmiller going to teach us how to start a fire by banging two clacks together?
WOAH
KeyCamp is going to be the 3-day weekend overnight bootcamp that I hold at the local state forest to introduce newbs to all things keyboards.
We should also include blindfolded keyboard assembly. Fastest person wins a new keyboard or some other prize.
Also I rather like how the system works now. Informal meets + a few more official meets. I've probably done one real meetup (Keycon and Chicago - March/April 2013) and then did like 4-5 smaller meetups (three people or less). And I do love that we have larger meets in larger cities. Chicago was a blast.
I just like the idea of someone holding a 700 F iron while blindfolded, trying to solder a keyboard together.
Also, WE CAN GO TO CES AND BE BOOTH BABES FOR COOLERMASTER MKAWA??
LOL. Another smallish club I am in has had national meetups every year since the 90s. The convention with by-far the worst turn out was located in Topeka, Kansas. This was done to appease the left-coasters, who always complained that the con was too far. Ironically, it had the lowest number of West-coast members. The conventions with the highest turn outs have been located in IL, MI, IN, and OH.IN Keycon please. Indianapolis is literally a perfect convention city.
My point is that geographic centrality does not yield better turn-outs, because it is far from everybody. Rotating it around is probably the best option.
If we were to do a cooler time of year, Dallas would be a decent option as well. Plenty of places to organize a great con experience and decent after-party options as well. But anyone not used to heat would melt if we did it this time of year
you actually have to take not raw geographic centers (ie, simple embedding into 2-space) but warp the geometry to reflect population density. and that doesn't take into account the weird costs of travel due to tourist destinations subsidizing things etc. etc. etc. etc.
etc.
LOL. Another smallish club I am in has had national meetups every year since the 90s. The convention with by-far the worst turn out was located in Topeka, Kansas. This was done to appease the left-coasters, who always complained that the con was too far. Ironically, it had the lowest number of West-coast members. The conventions with the highest turn outs have been located in IL, MI, IN, and OH.IN Keycon please. Indianapolis is literally a perfect convention city.
My point is that geographic centrality does not yield better turn-outs, because it is far from everybody. Rotating it around is probably the best option.
CES isn't open to the public.what i am trying to suggest is to find out what events that <keyboard_vendor_you_want_to_see> will be attending and try to have a "keycon" the weekend before or after. that way the vendor can have a presence at our event without it costing much. a workable event might be a computer gaming contest or industry meeting.
Show Image(http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/mlb/images/team_logos/social_media/og/la.jpg)
lets do this
Show Image(http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/mlb/images/team_logos/social_media/og/la.jpg)
lets do this
I like this idea, but raise it this:Show Image(http://blog.hipmunk.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/SanDiego.jpg)
Yes, I live here, but there are so many other reasons: airport is downtown, awesome weather, awesome food/drinks (Gaslamp quarter), tons of lodging, many great places to hold the event.
feb is definitely an out of season month for SD, but as you know, even out of season, things can be expensive there. also, it's that much more driving/flying for the norcal folks.Show Image(http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/mlb/images/team_logos/social_media/og/la.jpg)
lets do this
I like this idea, but raise it this:Show Image(http://blog.hipmunk.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/SanDiego.jpg)
Yes, I live here, but there are so many other reasons: airport is downtown, awesome weather, awesome food/drinks (Gaslamp quarter), tons of lodging, many great places to hold the event.
feb is definitely an out of season month for SD, but as you know, even out of season, things can be expensive there. also, it's that much more driving/flying for the norcal folks.Show Image(http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/mlb/images/team_logos/social_media/og/la.jpg)
lets do this
I like this idea, but raise it this:Show Image(http://blog.hipmunk.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/SanDiego.jpg)
Yes, I live here, but there are so many other reasons: airport is downtown, awesome weather, awesome food/drinks (Gaslamp quarter), tons of lodging, many great places to hold the event.
it could be an option though, as i have many strings to pull to get us a large awesome conf room in sd, and i know exactly which beaches we can chill on after the con.
I like the idea of rotating between east, west, and central locations. At least until we get a sense of what works and produces good turn-out. I don't think we should do it more often than say every 9 months. Local meet-ups are one thing, but we want KeyCon™ to be special. I'm also totally down with paying to get in if it means better venues and more interesting things to do and see.
If it's possible, why not have all 3 at the same time but then have a webcam/TV broadcasting to the other 2 cons?
Honestly, 3 years between events is a long time (I don't really plan on going to a NYC or Cali meetup, I'd love to, but I don't think I could)
If it's possible, why not have all 3 at the same time but then have a webcam/TV broadcasting to the other 2 cons?
That's bananas. You're describing a logistical nightmare that makes me want to run into the woods screaming. :pHonestly, 3 years between events is a long time (I don't really plan on going to a NYC or Cali meetup, I'd love to, but I don't think I could)
If the only event that you could ever attend is in Chicago then moving locations would never work for you regardless.
If it's possible, why not have all 3 at the same time but then have a webcam/TV broadcasting to the other 2 cons?
Honestly, 3 years between events is a long time (I don't really plan on going to a NYC or Cali meetup, I'd love to, but I don't think I could)
But that's just because I can afford and love to travel. Not everyone is ballin' out of control.FTFY ol' cap
Mashby once again is making some good arguments. I agree.
Most of my posts in this thread have been facetious, but in all seriousness, I support a swing at a Vegas winter gathering at some point. You can get some cheap rates at downtown hotels rather than the gaudy Main Strip hotels, easy flights from smaller towns (Hello Allegiant!), Cirque shows, some great outdoor spots, and I lived there for 6 months so I know a few good local spots.
Over the next couple years, I am sure we will experiment with bigger gatherings in different parts of the country and find a system that works out. We might have to restrain our attempts to create too many large gatherings. But the enthusiasm is strong, and that's a great sign.
Mashby once again is making some good arguments. I agree.
Most of my posts in this thread have been facetious, but in all seriousness, I support a swing at a Vegas winter gathering at some point. You can get some cheap rates at downtown hotels rather than the gaudy Main Strip hotels, easy flights from smaller towns (Hello Allegiant!), Cirque shows, some great outdoor spots, and I lived there for 6 months so I know a few good local spots.
Over the next couple years, I am sure we will experiment with bigger gatherings in different parts of the country and find a system that works out. We might have to restrain our attempts to create too many large gatherings. But the enthusiasm is strong, and that's a great sign.
Also I just realized that I list the obvious reasons why anybody has a convention in Vegas.
Mashby once again is making some good arguments. I agree.
Most of my posts in this thread have been facetious, but in all seriousness, I support a swing at a Vegas winter gathering at some point. You can get some cheap rates at downtown hotels rather than the gaudy Main Strip hotels, easy flights from smaller towns (Hello Allegiant!), Cirque shows, some great outdoor spots, and I lived there for 6 months so I know a few good local spots.
Over the next couple years, I am sure we will experiment with bigger gatherings in different parts of the country and find a system that works out. We might have to restrain our attempts to create too many large gatherings. But the enthusiasm is strong, and that's a great sign.
Also I just realized that I list the obvious reasons why anybody has a convention in Vegas.
Is it the gambling/booze/hookers?
'cuz I'm willing to skip bible camp if it is.
Mashby once again is making some good arguments. I agree.
Most of my posts in this thread have been facetious, but in all seriousness, I support a swing at a Vegas winter gathering at some point. You can get some cheap rates at downtown hotels rather than the gaudy Main Strip hotels, easy flights from smaller towns (Hello Allegiant!), Cirque shows, some great outdoor spots, and I lived there for 6 months so I know a few good local spots.
Over the next couple years, I am sure we will experiment with bigger gatherings in different parts of the country and find a system that works out. We might have to restrain our attempts to create too many large gatherings. But the enthusiasm is strong, and that's a great sign.
Also I just realized that I list the obvious reasons why anybody has a convention in Vegas.
Is it the gambling/booze/hookers?
'cuz I'm willing to skip bible camp if it is.
Lol, I did not even think of those reasons. I never gambled during the year+ I lived in the state, just struck me as a waste of time and money. And prostitution is such an ingrained part of the Nevada culture, I don't even think twice about it.
As for San Diego, that sounds okay with me. SD in the winter is a nice trip for a guy from NYC. :cool:
Las Vegas is okay too.
Actually I don't really care where KeyCon '14 is held, as long as I have enough notice to plan my work schedule around it. The longer ahead it's planned the better. 10 or 11 months is just about enough time too. That might seem crazy to a vagabond hippy gypsy like CAPTBadAss, to plan things 10 months in advance, but that much time to plan would make it easier for me to attend anywhere in the world.
I'd bet that other people would like the advance notice as well. So let's pick a place and a date for KeyCon '14 as soon as possible.
Why? He may check them for you...
Show Image(http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/mlb/images/team_logos/social_media/og/la.jpg)
lets do this
As for San Diego, that sounds okay with me. SD in the winter is a nice trip for a guy from NYC. :cool:
Las Vegas is okay too.
Actually I don't really care where KeyCon '14 is held, as long as I have enough notice to plan my work schedule around it. The longer ahead it's planned the better. 10 or 11 months is just about enough time too. That might seem crazy to a vagabond hippy gypsy like CAPTBadAss, to plan things 10 months in advance, but that much time to plan would make it easier for me to attend anywhere in the world.
I'd bet that other people would like the advance notice as well. So let's pick a place and a date for KeyCon '14 as soon as possible.
(punches hole in wall)
VEGAS! VEGAS! VEGAS!
(punches hole in wall)
then checks Fire Alarm
VEGAS! VEGAS! VEGAS!
ftfy
As for San Diego, that sounds okay with me. SD in the winter is a nice trip for a guy from NYC. :cool:
Las Vegas is okay too.
Actually I don't really care where KeyCon '14 is held, as long as I have enough notice to plan my work schedule around it. The longer ahead it's planned the better. 10 or 11 months is just about enough time too. That might seem crazy to a vagabond hippy gypsy like CAPTBadAss, to plan things 10 months in advance, but that much time to plan would make it easier for me to attend anywhere in the world.
I'd bet that other people would like the advance notice as well. So let's pick a place and a date for KeyCon '14 as soon as possible.
Anywhere in the world, huh? Time to start planning for World KeyCon 2015.
(punches hole in wall)
then checks Fire Alarm
VEGAS! VEGAS! VEGAS!
ftfy
FTFYAs for San Diego, that sounds okay with me. SD in the winter is a nice trip for a guy from NYC. :cool:
Las Vegas is okay too.
Actually I don't really care where KeyCon '14 is held, as long as I have enough notice to plan my work schedule around it. The longer ahead it's planned the better. 10 or 11 months is just about enough time too. That might seem crazy to a vagabond hippy gypsy like CAPTBadAss, to plan things 10 months in advance, but that much time to plan would make it easier for me to attend anywhere in the world.
I'd bet that other people would like the advance notice as well. So let's pick a place and a date for KeyCon '14 as soon as possible.
Anywhere in the world, huh? Time to start planning for World KeyCon 2015.
Dude, anywhere in the world for KeyCon '15? That can only mean one place. The Mecca for keyboards: Seoul, S. Korea. Second choice would be the Mecca for Topre lovers: Tokyo, Japan. Third Place would be the Mecca for Larry Herzog lovers: Columbus, WI, USA. (why not just party at Larry's house?)
...KeyCon '14 is held, as long as I have enough notice to plan my work schedule around it. The longer ahead it's planned the better. 10 or 11 months is just about enough time too. That might seem crazy to a vagabond hippy gypsy like CAPTBadAss, to plan things 10 months in advance, but that much time to plan would make it easier for me to attend anywhere in the world.
...KeyCon '14 is held, as long as I have enough notice to plan my work schedule around it. The longer ahead it's planned the better. 10 or 11 months is just about enough time too. That might seem crazy to a vagabond hippy gypsy like CAPTBadAss, to plan things 10 months in advance, but that much time to plan would make it easier for me to attend anywhere in the world.
I'm in the same boat. I actually spent like two weeks, with my planning starting in late June, trying to nail down dates at work so that I could go to Keycon '13. I also called in favors but the date actually worked out fine timing wise. It's not easy being a vagabond you know? I would prefer to know things far in advance but...I'll still show up barring anything crazy ^__^
And you guys are doing this all wrong. Keycon '14 or '15 should be at the real mecca of all things mechanical: Cherry HQ. Who wants to see MX switches made live? :P
Although on a more serious note....Signature Plastics visit would be really cool. Or CMStorm tour. Or WASDKeyboards. One of the big American vendors who have a storefront. Hell, another meet at MechanicalKeyboards.com's storefront would be incredible.
...KeyCon '14 is held, as long as I have enough notice to plan my work schedule around it. The longer ahead it's planned the better. 10 or 11 months is just about enough time too. That might seem crazy to a vagabond hippy gypsy like CAPTBadAss, to plan things 10 months in advance, but that much time to plan would make it easier for me to attend anywhere in the world.
I'm in the same boat. I actually spent like two weeks, with my planning starting in late June, trying to nail down dates at work so that I could go to Keycon '13. I also called in favors but the date actually worked out fine timing wise. It's not easy being a vagabond you know? I would prefer to know things far in advance but...I'll still show up barring anything crazy ^__^
And you guys are doing this all wrong. Keycon '14 or '15 should be at the real mecca of all things mechanical: Cherry HQ. Who wants to see MX switches made live? :P
Although on a more serious note....Signature Plastics visit would be really cool. Or CMStorm tour. Or WASDKeyboards. One of the big American vendors who have a storefront. Hell, another meet at MechanicalKeyboards.com's storefront would be incredible.
...KeyCon '14 is held, as long as I have enough notice to plan my work schedule around it. The longer ahead it's planned the better. 10 or 11 months is just about enough time too. That might seem crazy to a vagabond hippy gypsy like CAPTBadAss, to plan things 10 months in advance, but that much time to plan would make it easier for me to attend anywhere in the world.
I'm in the same boat. I actually spent like two weeks, with my planning starting in late June, trying to nail down dates at work so that I could go to Keycon '13. I also called in favors but the date actually worked out fine timing wise. It's not easy being a vagabond you know? I would prefer to know things far in advance but...I'll still show up barring anything crazy ^__^
And you guys are doing this all wrong. Keycon '14 or '15 should be at the real mecca of all things mechanical: Cherry HQ. Who wants to see MX switches made live? :P
Although on a more serious note....Signature Plastics visit would be really cool. Or CMStorm tour. Or WASDKeyboards. One of the big American vendors who have a storefront. Hell, another meet at MechanicalKeyboards.com's storefront would be incredible.
I wish I could travel :(
...KeyCon '14 is held, as long as I have enough notice to plan my work schedule around it. The longer ahead it's planned the better. 10 or 11 months is just about enough time too. That might seem crazy to a vagabond hippy gypsy like CAPTBadAss, to plan things 10 months in advance, but that much time to plan would make it easier for me to attend anywhere in the world.
I'm in the same boat. I actually spent like two weeks, with my planning starting in late June, trying to nail down dates at work so that I could go to Keycon '13. I also called in favors but the date actually worked out fine timing wise. It's not easy being a vagabond you know? I would prefer to know things far in advance but...I'll still show up barring anything crazy ^__^
And you guys are doing this all wrong. Keycon '14 or '15 should be at the real mecca of all things mechanical: Cherry HQ. Who wants to see MX switches made live? :P
Although on a more serious note....Signature Plastics visit would be really cool. Or CMStorm tour. Or WASDKeyboards. One of the big American vendors who have a storefront. Hell, another meet at MechanicalKeyboards.com's storefront would be incredible.
I wish I could travel :(
The Judge said you can't leave the area until until the probation is over?
...KeyCon '14 is held, as long as I have enough notice to plan my work schedule around it. The longer ahead it's planned the better. 10 or 11 months is just about enough time too. That might seem crazy to a vagabond hippy gypsy like CAPTBadAss, to plan things 10 months in advance, but that much time to plan would make it easier for me to attend anywhere in the world.
I'm in the same boat. I actually spent like two weeks, with my planning starting in late June, trying to nail down dates at work so that I could go to Keycon '13. I also called in favors but the date actually worked out fine timing wise. It's not easy being a vagabond you know? I would prefer to know things far in advance but...I'll still show up barring anything crazy ^__^
And you guys are doing this all wrong. Keycon '14 or '15 should be at the real mecca of all things mechanical: Cherry HQ. Who wants to see MX switches made live? :P
Although on a more serious note....Signature Plastics visit would be really cool. Or CMStorm tour. Or WASDKeyboards. One of the big American vendors who have a storefront. Hell, another meet at MechanicalKeyboards.com's storefront would be incredible.
My vote would be either SP or mechanicalkeyboards.com