I was wondering why the last thread got locked; glad to see you're expanding it!
I've also heard some people toss around rumors of the S9808 (used in Logitech's new S labeled laser mice) having no acceleration; is anyone able to confirm or deny that? I haven't be able to fish up any conclusive info on the matter, but am rather pessimistic about it.
I've just noticed you discuss CM Storm Spawn's firmware issues above. Have you taken the latest update into account? Speaking of that (the spawn has been discontinued in Europe due to bad reputation probably caused by the firmware), do you plan to mention availability of each mouse?
Wow, what a valuable resource. I'm new here (only been a member for a few days - lurked for a few months prior), and one of the reasons I took the leap and made an account was for insight like this - there seem to be quite a few dedicated & just generally knowledgeable . It wasn't just for discussing and planning my next keyboard, but also because I'm in dire need of a new mouse and have no clue what the landscape is like anymore since it's been 5 years since my last purchase.
Need to buy two mice...the one I prefer will be the primary gaming mouse. Have used only the SteelSeries Xai since 2009 (bought two of them a few weeks before the Sensei came out), before that I used the Logitech G5 & mx518.
- Which 2 or 3 mice would be best suited for twitch-based FPS games like Counter-Strike and Quake or is it still almost exclusively personal preference?? (90% of my gaming time is playing Counter-Strike 1.6 & CS:GO competitively)
- If it's not exclusively based on personal preference (especially size, shape, feel, etc), what else is it based on? What should I be looking for?
I know I have plenty of other questions that will resurface in my mind here shortly. Thanks again for your help.
First of all welcome to Geekhack !
Second, thanks for your kind words about the guide. I hope to improve and expand it over time.
Third, I will try and answer your questions to the best of my ability.
Regarding your first question, the only answer I can give is that there is really no general rule about which kind of mice (shape and size) work best for these kind of games. To take the competitive scene as an example, we have seen plenty of players who use larger mice, and plenty of players who use smaller mice. We have even seen a lot of players switch between completely different style mice. 2 examples that you know are probably Neo and SpawN. Both of them switched styles of mice. Spawn had used the WMO (small, ambidextrous, super light) and the deathadder (large, ergonomic, reasonably heavy). Another example are NIP. You can find the hardware they use on their website. It was recently updated and a couple of their members now play with the Rival (large, ergonomic, heavy) where they previously used mice like the Kinzu ( I think GeT_RiGhT and F0rest did, though I do not know exactly by heart). I am telling you all this not because I believe that people should do whatever the "pro's" do (since their choice is heavily influenced by sponsorship), but just to indicate that very different styles of mice can compete at the highest level, which probably means you are free to choose whatever you prefer. I should also point out (to be fair) that while different styles of mice are used, there is a slight trend in the competitive scene of players favoring smaller, lighter mice.
To answer the second question, the other thing you should be looking for (outside of shape, size etc.) is performance. What does performance mean when it comes to mice sensors? The answer to that question is pretty much this entire guide. I hope that it will give you a good starting point to find out what kind of characteristics are desirable in a mouse, what the things are that you would probably want to avoid, and which mice have a sensor that performs well. People give a lot of attention to acceleration and prediction, and they are generally detested, but there are other aspects of tracking that are just as important. Of course, personal preference and the way a mouse simply feels in your hand plays a large role too that is not to be ignored.
I have to admit I felt awkward even asking my first question about which 2 or 3 mice might work best for twitch-based FPS games because that question comes up a lot from 14 year old gamers that thing it's as simple or black and white as that. Hopefully you understood that I really meant given your knowledge of mice and the need for quickness/precision over all else (in FPS) which mice MIGHT work best on paper in that situation.
Interesting points about SpawN/Neo switching from two different styles. I think that's important to note...but also makes me wonder if it's because they are two of the greatest gamers ever that they were able to adjust to two different types of mouse, or if it really doesn't make a huge difference.
i feel the same way when asking questions like that, but the truth is that i do not think we should ;p
mice are actually a difficult subject as i've come to understand and, besides, when it comes to doing your research you have to start somewhere.
doing research works alot better when you get a few recommendations so you can look up the differences between those mice, which tends to hook you up with some valuable information (as in realising what factors are to be considered). recognising and then asking knowledge people for advice is a great start.
although i am not quite done with educating myself on mice, the three most important things i've come to understand is that there is no perfect (or even flawless) mouse, that you should not blindly follow other(pro) gamers and that it's all subjective in the end.
great gamers will adapt to most mice because they are incredibly experienced and often talented as well. a pro gamer destroying you with a certain mouse will not say much about the mouse but more about the player.
certain things like acceleration are typically said to be something to be avoided, but there are plenty of pro(!) gamers using mice with acceleration. facts like this just show that (good) gamers have a great capacity to adapt and also to get used to whatever hardware they use.
if you have the motivation to get great at a game, then you could do it with a bad mouse.
that said, it seems like it's a matter of choosing between evils. if you search well enough, you will find that every mouse has something that's wrong with it. but just because a mouse has a certain flaw just does not mean that you can not perform fantasticly with it.
i do believe it is very useful to look at what mice are being used by pro gamers (within your genre), but you really should realise that almost every one of them gets paid to use certain products.
and, like i said, most are able to adapt to most mice (unless they are just seriously crappy).
obviously there are definitely better sensors and better mice (in an objective sense) but the truth is that you might actually perform better with an objectively worse mouse.
i suggest you read up on mice until you get absolutely sick of it, before you purchase anything. unless you are rich. in that case; buy everything.
TLDR: you will not find a perfect/flawless mouse (in the objective sense). do not blindly follow pro gamers. 'the perfect mouse' is a matter of subjectiveness. if you care about good peripherals then keep doing research until you get sick of it.
PS: there are a bunch of threads/people on overclock.net with a seemingly infinite amount of knowledge and experience. if you really care about your hardware, then i suggest you look around on those forums as well. i have found that especially Skylit, r0ach and Berserker1 on those forums have an insane amount of valuable information.
Thanks alot for your thread, Grim. You've created a great source of information.
far too often I feel I'm making a decision based on negativities/imperfections rather than positivity/usefulness for my needs.
Your post did however remind me of one area I need to explore and that's pertaining to mouse sensors.
It seems like more and more people are becoming aware of the differences in tracking quality between mice. Some brands like Zowie make their money appealing to only this market, but the bigger brands are now also taking part.
BTW are the complaints about over-the-top smoothing in mice with A3090 w/ 4000dpi ROM worth including? Personally, I think those people are nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking and need to get a life, but whatever...
BTW are the complaints about over-the-top smoothing in mice with A3090 w/ 4000dpi ROM worth including? Personally, I think those people are nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking and need to get a life, but whatever...
Just added a 4.7 Side-Buttons section.
It is not great, as I just typed up whatever info I could think of. However, I felt like I should add something to the guide every once in a while even when I do not have the time to really add anything significant. There are still things I plan to add in the future, and of course, the guide will be updated as mice are released.
Just added a 4.7 Side-Buttons section.
It is not great, as I just typed up whatever info I could think of. However, I felt like I should add something to the guide every once in a while even when I do not have the time to really add anything significant. There are still things I plan to add in the future, and of course, the guide will be updated as mice are released.
nice!
but where is the G502? :D it's an important mouse, you should definitely add it when you have some time available.
Very detailed list! Has zowie fixed the peeling coating issue on the fk? I'm looking to pick one up.
The coating issue has been fixed:
http://www.zowiegear.com/index.php?i=news&p=57
Try to avoid buying from an old batch. I would personally order directly from Zowie if you have to opportunity, just to make sure. I will add this in the guide.
Thanks a ton for this guide.
Like most people I came to geekhack for the keyboards, did not expect to find such an in-depth guide on mice here.
I actually just ordered a B-Stock Roccat Savu after reading this. It was only 26€ so definitely worth it for me, insteadof shelling out 60+€ on a Zowie or similar. I will probably try to use the Savu with any of the native DPI settings to avoid any jitter. I also heard that the new 4000dpi of the Avago is actually inferior to the previous firmware with 3500 dpi. We'll see about that but for this kind of price it seems like a steal either way.
The shape and texture of the savu should be perfect for me. I have the G500 but I have the weirdest claw/fingertip grip on it. I actually don't use the large thumb groove but rather grip the side of it with my thumb to get better precision. It's really not my kind of mouse but I got it for free and it has aged really well. It doesn't look 4 years old. It will be a good backup or office mouse.
I've been through about 5-10 different mice in the past 5 years, and I always come back to the Razer Deathadder(left handed), as it's just so consistent.(and there's a severe lack of choice as a left handed gamer).
I'm always on the lookout for something smaller though. I'm a claw-grip user, and the mouse is simply too long[127mm/5Inch].
Ideally I would say the Razer Abyssus' size is perfect for me - [115mm/4.5Inch], however it lacks the two thumb buttons needed.
The Razer Taipan has stolen my heart for the past year or so, and it's probably the only mouse that could take away the crown. It's so comfortable, light and just small enough for me[124mm/4.8Inch]
The only downside to it i've found is the stupid sensor and it's built-in negative-acceleration.
I know there's a lot of arguing on the situation, but primarily as an FPS gamer, I don't care what anyone says, it's highly noticeable when trying to play on this low a sensitivity.
In CS:GO my settings are 6/11Windows - 400DPI - 1.95 InGame, and doing a sweep across my mouse-pad is so inconsistent. I can go anywhere from 45degrees to about 180 degrees based on how fast I move the mouse.(ideally you want to be smack bang on 180 every time). http://imgur.com/a/0yJWr Album to help explain what I mean.
With the Deathadder, I KNOW that I will always face 180 degrees when I swing around, and you have the muscle memory built up to pull off certain snap-shots.
With the Avago sensor on the Taipan, it's anyone's guess as to where you will end up, which is sad because it's such a perfectly made mouse otherwise, in my opinion.Quote
Do you knew much about modifying sensors, e.g. taking an optical sensor out of mouse A[s3888], and placing into laser mouse B[s9818]. Would it be practically possible? or would I just be bricking two mice :PNo you can't do that, sensors have different measurements and pin location, so you can't simply solder a different sensor on the PCB (besides a few other things you would also need a new FW).
have you looked into Avior 7000 by Mionix? it has a very similar shape to the Taipan as far as I can tell, and I think has thumb buttons. sensor is the super hyped and praised 3310 by Avago which should be super consistent. it's in the list, and apparently should be similar to the Deathadder in some aspects of its performance?
have you looked into Avior 7000 by Mionix? it has a very similar shape to the Taipan as far as I can tell, and I think has thumb buttons. sensor is the super hyped and praised 3310 by Avago which should be super consistent. it's in the list, and apparently should be similar to the Deathadder in some aspects of its performance?Ergonomic right handed i'm afraid :c I need either an ambidextrous, or ergonomic left handed(lol, like that will ever happen). Pretty sure the razer deathadder is the only "left ergonomic" optical mouse out there.
Do you knew much about modifying sensors, e.g. taking an optical sensor out of mouse A[s3888], and placing into laser mouse B[s9818]. Would it be practically possible? or would I just be bricking two mice :PNo you can't do that, sensors have different measurements and pin location, so you can't simply solder a different sensor on the PCB (besides a few other things you would also need a new FW).
What you can do is putting the whole internals (PCB) in the shell of another mouse as long there is enough room, ofc how much work it is depends on the 2 mice involved.
Kinzuadder (Deathadder in Kinzu shell) is a prominent example.
are you looking at the Naos 7000 or the Avior 7000? avior is definitely ambidextrous. check again! :)
@Emmiya
I know what you mean but the switches would be the easy part because you can simply hard-wire them to the main PCB, gluing in stems on the top cover to actuate the differently positioned switches (left/right button).
Biggest problem would be getting the main PCB in the right position for the mouse wheel while still maintain the mounting specs for the sensor, that would most likely need quite the modding of the the lower shell base.
I have a slight feeling we should stop posting in this thread anyway :3 Supposed to be a guide on mice, not helping me decide which mouse to buy next <3
First generation of the Logitech G400 had prediction and another sensor (the Avago 3080E sensor). You need a PID above LZ13333 for a G400 without this problem. Here is where you can find the information you need to see whether you have a "good" version
Here's a video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yX_DQXSWJ4) I just made to show the difference between the 2.Just figured i'd quote my other post, so people can see why i'm so pissy about the optical sensor vs the laser.
Laser first with all forms of acceleration turned off(except the inherent negative laser-acceleration)
Optical second.
I'll let the results (http://gyazo.com/fa2ccdcb2bfcf46aaf4e483104797523) speak for themselves.
Which brings me quite a lot of shame, because I ****ing love the feel of my laser mouse, but it's not worth the 18% accuracy drop (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vqDHjAL7-U)
Made an account here just to say this is the best mouse guide I've come across. Fantastic work!
If it's cool I also want to make a suggestion for improvement - the one bit of information missing about each mouse that is important to me is if the mouse features onboard memory for storing profile settings.
I also want to note that the CM Storm Recon and the Steelseries Kinzu V2 are missing from the list. They both also use the Avargo ADNS-3090.
This is fantastic, thanks Grim.
I do have a question - what are the differences between the three generations of the R.A.T? I have recently bought a 5 but haven't used it at all, and was wondering how it compared/differed to the description you gave for the 3?
Any plans on getting the FK1 and/or the Rokkat Kone Military on the list in the near future, ie the new batch of 3310 mice? I would like to see your thoughts on that one.
...
I will chip in my 2 cents I guess.
I am a semi-pro Starcraft II player and if you are unfamiliar with the game - it is a quick action paced RTS, where a lot of mouse accuracy and precision is needed. Not to mention that you maybe move your mouse more than any other game, when you play an RTS. Let's say that some branded mice, from "big/famous/rich" companies cannot keep up with 12 hours of boxing every day for more than an year. ^^
The Zowie MiCO, however, is maybe the best mouse for the job. It has the same "very clicky and distinguishable" switches from the other Zowie mouses, but is extremely light and perhaps a little bit smaller than normal mice. I have no idea what sensor it uses, but I can tell you - it does not fail easily. Plus no other mouse (except the Logitech G9X) comes close to it for the RTS genre.
I should add that it is with a glossy surface, meaning it is not ok to use it while you eat anything. It lacks any software/drivers and has only 3 buttons. An extremely simple product. Three states of DPI, which are changed when you hold down the two main buttons and scroll the wheel around. The simplicity and the lack of other buttons is also a huge plus for me.
Here is an album of a bunch of Koreans (mostly the top pros) using mainly Logitech G9X, Zowie MiCO, and a few other exceptions. Maybe you have to scroll into the album a bit to find the mico users, but i'm sure most of you will enjoy it anyway. ^^
http://imgur.com/a/ixDhR
Seriosuly, consider this mouse as one of the best extremely light/affordable/very-precise/heavy-duty mouses.
Thank you!
I think that Cooler Master Storm Alcor on the first post has a incorrect image. If I checked correctly Alcor is without the rubber sides, this picture is of the laser version Mizar.
I recently ordered Alcor as it seems its one of the best price from the list and I also liked the shape. We will see how flawless sensor it is ;)
My other choice would be Zowie FK but the price is nearly twice of Alcor in my region :/
The g502 tracking error is now acknowledged by Logitech. The latest firmware update was supposed to fix it, but didn't.
MouseTest.exe that's listed under software resources is coming up with several virus detections.
https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/d797bd6315e418434da3cec49e4e00ccadd45aea6ae33d359597b81c74712ebf/analysis/1405455997/
Skylit, one of the more knowledgeable mouse experts at OCN maintains that all cmos based sensors have an inherent form of acceleration. Though I will not pretend to know exactly how that works, as I usually go by testing results
Great mouse, though. Scroll wheel is perfect, buttons nice and clicky and require minimal pressure to activate, nice limber cord, great ergonomics, nice and light.quite the glowing review. i'm struggling to choose between this one and the Avior 7000. the FK1 seems good too but seeing as i'm used to the original Deathadder's Omron switch, the Huano wouldn't be a good match for me
about the R.A.T. 3´s performance:
Malfunction Speed around 2.5m/s at 1800/900/450, LOD around 3 cd´s, recalculated 450 and 900 steps are very inconsistent and are suffering from Pixelwalk issues, general tracking at 1800 is fine, jitters alot on 3500cpi.
Pixelwalk is also the reason why some people report a lag on the 3090 zowies, interpolation and using the sensor outside of the recommended specs are the cause in this case, depends on many factors to notice it.
Skylit, one of the more knowledgeable mouse experts at OCN maintains that all cmos based sensors have an inherent form of acceleration. Though I will not pretend to know exactly how that works, as I usually go by testing results
Thats because it actually isnt acceleration, a more correct term for example would be Trackinglinearity, CPI are never 100% stable with any system, the only question is, if it is perceivable/has an impact or not. One System can have a Variance of 5%, another 0.5%, and so on.
1) What is the cheapest mouse with 800dpi and no acceleration, angle snapping or other smoothing nonsense? (So I can kill it and implant the guts into an old IME3.0)
2) What is the biggest mouse with 800dpi and no acceleration, angle snapping or other smoothing nonsense? (IME3.0 size or bigger, EC1 is small)
Great mouse, though. Scroll wheel is perfect, buttons nice and clicky and require minimal pressure to activate, nice limber cord, great ergonomics, nice and light.quite the glowing review. i'm struggling to choose between this one and the Avior 7000. the FK1 seems good too but seeing as i'm used to the original Deathadder's Omron switch, the Huano wouldn't be a good match for me
Ummm... infrared diode?I thought those were used in laser sensors and the A3090 is an optical sensor.
as far as i know, the 3366 sensor used by the g502 is one of a kind right now, and seeing as a lot of brands have released new mice with the 3310 sensor (second best apparently), i don't think there will be any new mice with the 3366 sensor coming soon. the question then becomes a matter of choosing the best 3310 mouse (If you trust the sensor, I say go for it. Great mouse.FK1vs Avior 7000 vs Roccat Miliraty). i think you're the first person to dismiss the 3310 sensor, and while i value your opinion as much as any other i read online, it's not enough to sway me from getting one of these two mice :D
Great mouse.
Guess i'll just have to figure out what the natural dpi is now and try alter my sensitivity to adjust for that.
about the R.A.T. 3´s performance:
Malfunction Speed around 2.5m/s at 1800/900/450, LOD around 3 cd´s, recalculated 450 and 900 steps are very inconsistent and are suffering from Pixelwalk issues, general tracking at 1800 is fine, jitters alot on 3500cpi.
Pixelwalk is also the reason why some people report a lag on the 3090 zowies, interpolation and using the sensor outside of the recommended specs are the cause in this case, depends on many factors to notice it.
Skylit, one of the more knowledgeable mouse experts at OCN maintains that all cmos based sensors have an inherent form of acceleration. Though I will not pretend to know exactly how that works, as I usually go by testing results
Thats because it actually isnt acceleration, a more correct term for example would be Trackinglinearity, CPI are never 100% stable with any system, the only question is, if it is perceivable/has an impact or not. One System can have a Variance of 5%, another 0.5%, and so on.
- Which 2 or 3 mice would be best suited for twitch-based FPS games like Counter-Strike and Quake or is it still almost exclusively personal preference?? (90% of my gaming time is playing Counter-Strike 1.6 & CS:GO competitively)
- If it's not exclusively based on personal preference (especially size, shape, feel, etc), what else is it based on? What should I be looking for?
I do actually have the impression that the older RAT3 (pln2030 sensor) is a hair more accurate than the new one (3090). Hard to give solid evidence, but it just feels more crisp (it's actually the most precise mouse I have used).
A bit odd considering the switch to optical sensor was supposedly for increased accuracy.
This is why I am so excited about the new Tournament Edition, seems like it could be a worthy successor to my old RAT3 (new doppler sensor, sniper button, adjustable back piece, light weight, OMRON switches instead of Zhij). But both RAT3's are still going strong, so I have no real excuse to buy a new mouse :)
Great thread OP! Thanks for the effort. You put a lot of good information here for uninformed people.
can someone help me out with this:
"Has noticeable smoothing not unlike the DA 2013 or G400s."
what does this sentence mean? the smoothing is higher than da 2013, or lower? (english is not my native language)
i currently looking into zowie fk1, roccat kone pure military and Mionix Avior 7000. i opened a topic for suggestions and these two recommended to me. and i addet kone pure military because it has the same sensor as other two: 3310. as i understand, it is the best optical sensor avaliable right now.
so, are they have excessive smoothing? are they have lag or responsibility issues?
and how they compared to razer da 2013 in that regard?
OMG! that was really helpful! thanks man.
it is decided then, the avior 7000 it is! i will not look back.
a good mouse pad advice would be awesome too. i will use the mouse with "virgin grade 0.5 mm ptfe sheet". gonna cut parts from the sheet in shape of mouse feets. basicly, it is bulk hyperglide :D so i don't need to worry about fast wear out rate of feets with aluminium or hard plastic mats.
i wonder which kind of pad tracks best, or does it even makes difference in this regard? razer claims 25 percent better tracking with destructor 2. and i wonder aluminium is any worse than others in this regard(tracking)
i want "low start to move force" (excuse my english) i think this would help me to make micro adjustments with my very high sensitivty.
how about aluminium pads?
damn, my current mouse lasted 7 years. it is x7 oscar 740k. well done a4tech, at least in regard of durability.
I don't know what exactly you are looking for in a mousepad, but I want:
- an even surface
- no or as little fraying as possible
- smooth and good gliding
- soft
This mousemat has it all.
OMG! that was really helpful! thanks man.
it is decided then, the avior 7000 it is! i will not look back.
a good mouse pad advice would be awesome too. i will use the mouse with "virgin grade 0.5 mm ptfe sheet". gonna cut parts from the sheet in shape of mouse feets. basicly, it is bulk hyperglide :D so i don't need to worry about fast wear out rate of feets with aluminium or hard plastic mats.
i wonder which kind of pad tracks best, or does it even makes difference in this regard? razer claims 25 percent better tracking with destructor 2. and i wonder aluminium is any worse than others in this regard(tracking)
i want "low start to move force" (excuse my english) i think this would help me to make micro adjustments with my very high sensitivty.
how about aluminium pads?
damn, my current mouse lasted 7 years. it is x7 oscar 740k. well done a4tech, at least in regard of durability.
On the subject of smoothing. People who have experienced the delay associated with it know that it is a fairly subtle thing. I think it would be pretty hard to compare the extent of the problem between mice even if you have the luxury of comparing them side by side. It is much harder, if not impossible, to make a comparison based on anecdotal evidence that you find here and there on the web. I am not saying that you should ignore the things you read and hear about it. Just to be aware that not everything you read is 100% accurate. One clear indication of this is that you can find many conflicting statements about this and many other mouse characteristics.
On the subject of mousepads. This is something that I plan to include more of in the guide (though I need to learn more about them, and if possible I would like to get some more testing results). Which mousepad is best/good/ worth the price really depends on what you are looking for and what your individual preferences are. However, the number one thing is that your sensor has to track well on the mousepad. The tracking performance of any sensor is really dependent on the surface and for any type sensor that you can find, you can also find surfaces on which the performance of tracking is greatly reduced. The most obvious way in which the sensor is affected is the speed with which you can move the mouse without it stopping its tracking. Companies actually test their mice on different surfaces to see whether its performance is what they are looking for. The thing they put on the box ( "40g acceleration" ) are often best case scenarios that are not matched when using a normal mousepad.
For the optical mice that we see on this list, you would be surprised what kind of surface works best from a performance standpoint. There are a number of sources where the people who work at these companies state what kind of surface is best for performance according to their testing. They all respond that a black (dark) hard surface with a little structure (not perfectly smooth) generally works best. François Morier, who is a logitech engineer that has some videos on youtube even goes into more detail, saying that the pattern (irregular or not) does not really matter and that performance deteriorates when the surface is too rough. There are also some other things to take into account, such as how color can affect lift of distance and so on, and not every optical sensor will perform best on the same surface.
So why don't we all play on hard structured plastic? Basically, for the same reason that we do not all use the same mouse with the "theoretically" best sensor: We are human. We look for things that we find comfortable. Something that resonates with us because if feels right when we use it. There are a lot of surfaces that still give us a good enough performance while also managing to feel good. This is why cloth pads are still the most common pads we come across, whether it is at home or in the pro circuit. People look for mousepads of a certain size, that gives them a certain level or resistance and smoothness of glide when using the mouse on it. All of these things are subjective and up to the individual.
One thing people often ask is whether it is worth it to pay for very expensive mousepads over some of the cheaper options. I am undecided on the issue. When it comes to performance, it is not true that buying a 50 dollar mousepad will always outperform something like a Qck heavy. As of yet, I have seen nothing in terms of testing where I can objectively state that performance-wise, you should be spending that amount of money on a mousepad. This does not mean that there are never any differences, just that on the few tests that I have seen, there seems to be no relation between performance and price. Additionally, in terms of durability it is also not necessarily the case that the more expensive mousepads outperform the more reasonably priced ones. We know this because of the known durability issues on some of the expensive pads, and the known durability of some of the cheaper ones. So why should anyone ever buy a more expensive mousepad? I think that if they do it to gain some sort of advantage in terms of performance it might be a bit of a waste. However, it could be the case that there is a specific surface that people just really like, and they are willing to spend some extra money just for that reason. After all, there are some mousepads out there that have their own unique feel (Something like an Icepad). At the same time, it is also true that the more "special/unique" surfaces are also the ones most likely to cause tracking issues, as they deviate more from the simple structured surface that many sensors favor. Additionally, and this is just from personal experience, I find that some of the more expensive "premium" mousepads can at times feel pretty much exactly like their much cheaper alternatives.
On a more personal note, the trade off for me lies between durability vs money. I am very well willing to pay $$$ for something that will last me a decade. Makes me feel relaxed, not having to worry about buying new stuff.+1!
look what i found: http://www.ebay.com/itm/111303849865
it is 50 usd with free shipping. i will look for a review of it. even if i cant find a review, i guess i will take my chance and buy it. it just seems perferct.
On the subject of mousepads. This is something that I plan to include more of in the guide (though I need to learn more about them, and if possible I would like to get some more testing results). Which mousepad is best/good/ worth the price really depends on what you are looking for and what your individual preferences are. However, the number one thing is that your sensor has to track well on the mousepad. The tracking performance of any sensor is really dependent on the surface and for any type sensor that you can find, you can also find surfaces on which the performance of tracking is greatly reduced. The most obvious way in which the sensor is affected is the speed with which you can move the mouse without it stopping its tracking. Companies actually test their mice on different surfaces to see whether its performance is what they are looking for. The thing they put on the box ( "40g acceleration" ) are often best case scenarios that are not matched when using a normal mousepad.
For the optical mice that we see on this list, you would be surprised what kind of surface works best from a performance standpoint. There are a number of sources where the people who work at these companies state what kind of surface is best for performance according to their testing. They all respond that a black (dark) hard surface with a little structure (not perfectly smooth) generally works best. François Morier, who is a logitech engineer that has some videos on youtube even goes into more detail, saying that the pattern (irregular or not) does not really matter and that performance deteriorates when the surface is too rough. There are also some other things to take into account, such as how color can affect lift of distance and so on, and not every optical sensor will perform best on the same surface.
So why don't we all play on hard structured plastic? Basically, for the same reason that we do not all use the same mouse with the "theoretically" best sensor: We are human. We look for things that we find comfortable. Something that resonates with us because if feels right when we use it. There are a lot of surfaces that still give us a good enough performance while also managing to feel good. This is why cloth pads are still the most common pads we come across, whether it is at home or in the pro circuit. People look for mousepads of a certain size, that gives them a certain level or resistance and smoothness of glide when using the mouse on it. All of these things are subjective and up to the individual.
One thing people often ask is whether it is worth it to pay for very expensive mousepads over some of the cheaper options. I am undecided on the issue. When it comes to performance, it is not true that buying a 50 dollar mousepad will always outperform something like a Qck heavy. As of yet, I have seen nothing in terms of testing where I can objectively state that performance-wise, you should be spending that amount of money on a mousepad. This does not mean that there are never any differences, just that on the few tests that I have seen, there seems to be no relation between performance and price. Additionally, in terms of durability it is also not necessarily the case that the more expensive mousepads outperform the more reasonably priced ones. We know this because of the known durability issues on some of the expensive pads, and the known durability of some of the cheaper ones. So why should anyone ever buy a more expensive mousepad? I think that if they do it to gain some sort of advantage in terms of performance it might be a bit of a waste. However, it could be the case that there is a specific surface that people just really like, and they are willing to spend some extra money just for that reason. After all, there are some mousepads out there that have their own unique feel (Something like an Icepad). At the same time, it is also true that the more "special/unique" surfaces are also the ones most likely to cause tracking issues, as they deviate more from the simple structured surface that many sensors favor. Additionally, and this is just from personal experience, I find that some of the more expensive "premium" mousepads can at times feel pretty much exactly like their much cheaper alternatives.
look what i found: http://www.ebay.com/itm/111303849865A perfectly extreme waste of money.
it is 50 usd with free shipping. i will look for a review of it. even if i cant find a review, i guess i will take my chance and buy it. it just seems perferct.
I agree. On a more personal note, the trade off for me lies between durability vs money. I am very well willing to pay $$$ for something that will last me a decade. Makes me feel relaxed, not having to worry about buying new stuff.It's not true that the more you pay for something the more durable it is though.
look what i found: http://www.ebay.com/itm/111303849865
it is 50 usd with free shipping. i will look for a review of it. even if i cant find a review, i guess i will take my chance and buy it. it just seems perferct.
one thing worth noting though is that malfunction speed could be very low on the glass mats. I forgot to tell you about that :o
on my Icemat V2, I had a few problems with the Zowie FK for example. but it may not be an issue for high sensitivity. might affect jitter and such though.
I found a very cheap shipping option for the Slamepad here, in black (best for tracking, it seems? have had no problems with my red one though :p) http://www.ebay.com/itm/MMMS01-ModMyMachine-SlamePad-Aluminium-Gaming-Surface-Black-Angel-/121396733734?pt=UK_Computing_ComputerComponents_MouseMats&hash=item1c43cf2726
if you could afford that, maybe a better option? I can not find any problems with pure sensor tracking performance on mine!
I don't know what exactly you are looking for in a mousepad, but I want:
- an even surface
- no or as little fraying as possible
- smooth and good gliding
- soft
This mousemat has it all.
Doesn't every mousepad on the market meet those criteria?
Did you buy a couple of other random cheap-O mousepads to compare the superduper expensive one against them to see if there is any real life functional difference?
If you have discovered a truly superior mousepad that costs me $50.00 then I will buy it.
But right now I am using some 20 year old mousepads that meet all your criteria except they are frayed a bit on 3 edges. Just 3 tiny spots of fraying that don't bother me at all.
But since you payed big bux for your mousepad you have got me thinking... maybe my old mousepads are not as slippery as yours? My old mousepads have a hard smooth surface that seems totally ok to me. But I don't have your mousepad here to compare against. For all I know yours is MOAR slipperier.
The reason I am interested in this subject is that I simply cannot find a high-DPI lightweight mouse. As near as I can tell they don't exist. But I could cheat and compensate for an overweight mouse by using some sort of spaceage superslippery mousepad.
But according to the OP, the Aviar has noticeable smoothing and jitter, while the Military does not...
But according to the OP, the Aviar has noticeable smoothing and jitter, while the Military does not...
Yeah, I really really do not get this. I read that before I bought the mouse, but I also tried to read almost anything I could find on Google about the mouse, including the stuff I posted earlier in this thread on OC.
I have zero smoothing and zero jitter. Literally none. I have not yet used the mouse testing software pro's put in their reviews with the curves etc. Also, I have found zero other people complaining about smoothing, so I have no idea where that notion comes from.
The only drawback on both the Avior 7000 and the Naos 7000 that I could find is that sometimes the software will not update the firmware. But my mouse already came with the new firmware. And, you can reset your mouse easily, so you will not brick your mouse when FW update goes wrong, in contrast to some routers (I look at you, Linksys). The other drawback is that some people find that it does not track well on other surfaces. I tried it on white surfaces, black surfaces and my dark brown wooden desk. It tracks perfectly. However, it does NOT track on skin. But hey, who's gonna use their tummy as a mousepad :p
So I was a little wary of the possibility that the FW upgrade might fail, but I did not had to perform it neither could I have bricked it. And it tracks well, so also no problems there.
look what i found: http://www.ebay.com/itm/111303849865
it is 50 usd with free shipping. i will look for a review of it. even if i cant find a review, i guess i will take my chance and buy it. it just seems perferct.
one thing worth noting though is that malfunction speed could be very low on the glass mats. I forgot to tell you about that :o
on my Icemat V2, I had a few problems with the Zowie FK for example. but it may not be an issue for high sensitivity. might affect jitter and such though.
I found a very cheap shipping option for the Slamepad here, in black (best for tracking, it seems? have had no problems with my red one though :p) http://www.ebay.com/itm/MMMS01-ModMyMachine-SlamePad-Aluminium-Gaming-Surface-Black-Angel-/121396733734?pt=UK_Computing_ComputerComponents_MouseMats&hash=item1c43cf2726
if you could afford that, maybe a better option? I can not find any problems with pure sensor tracking performance on mine!
Royal Mail International Signed : 12gbp, 45 TL
Royal Mail International Standard : 4 gbp, 15 TL
i hope standart shipping has tracking. signed one just too expensive. the shipping costs a mouse pad :D i can buy it anyway but i heard aluminium wears out too, like plastics. i was thinking that buying this pad is a lifetime investment, then of course worth it. bu if it will wear out in a year or two, than sadly it is way above me.
Wow this thread just became ocn overnight.
Wow this thread just became ocn overnight.
Yeah, lets try to avoid that. Guide has been altered to reflect some of the legitimate concerns raised by some of the posters in this thread. Hopefully this way we can prevent an unfruitful discussion of the "yes there is" / "no there is not" kind and keep our focus on things that are more useful and informative.
I believe both of those had pretty severe prediction, so not very good sensors in that regard. though definitely not bad.
is the left handed deathadder 3.5g and the new g402 flawless?
well, maybe i used the wrong word. what if i change the words to matchable to the likes of the da2013 and g400s respectively? does it equal, underperform or exceed ?What mouse are you talking about? Your original comment said: "is the left handed deathadder 3.5g and the new g402 flawless?"
I believe both of those had pretty severe prediction, so not very good sensors in that regard. though definitely not bad.
Yeah. I had to look it up for the old diamondback, but I remember the 518 (it was a really popular mouse) had prediction as well. In this topic I do not try to judge whether mice are "good" or not in the broader sense. I am sure there are a lot of people who feel like the MX518 was a classic among gaming mice. However, the main idea of this thread/guide is a simple one: To make a list of mice (with some additional information) that specifically do not suffer from acceleration and prediction.is the left handed deathadder 3.5g and the new g402 flawless?
People sometimes use this word to describe mice and sensors. I am not sure how to respond to it. What is flawless? You could argue that no sensor nor their implementation in mice is flawless/perfect.
From what I understand, I think that the people using the term "flawless" might mostly mean that the mouse has no prediction or acceleration. Though I am not 100% sure.
About the G402. I am still waiting for some feedback on the mouse. Even though I know that there are already some knowledgeable people that have done in depth reviews on it. I don't like to add mice to the list without people using and testing them at least for a little while. There has to be enough information out there to say anything useful about it.
ok what i mean by flawless is, no prediction, acceleration nor jitter. so how does the left handed edition of the deathadder compare to a deathadder 2013 or a deathadder 3.5G? also, how does the G402 compare to G400S?
Does anyone know what causes jitter?
It is purely a software problem, right?
Not caused by hardware defects, right?
I "just assume" that its analogous to the debounce routine that every keyboard has to keep keypresses from "jittering".
Is jittering a common problem for 3500 dpi mice?
I am throwing a bunch of mice in my cart right now and doing research to try to narrow it down a bit. I would hate to spend a lot of money on a 3500 dpi (or whatever) mouse and then not be able to actually use it at the high-dpi settings.
Also read the section "vii. Jitter/Ripple" in this guide:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/tech-support/333648-an-overview-of-mouse-technology
Is this the reason that lots of mice have Prediction?
Planning to make some additions to the guide:Yes! :thumb:
-Thinking about adding the DPI available for each mouse
you can divide them into a recommended tier (i.e. the main list), and a second "for consideration" tier. i think the more information provided the better, as this thread's reputation has grown far in the last couple months (i would say it's the mice equivalent of NCX's monitor review subforum)
Do you conduct any scientific tests yourself to verify the info that you collect?
Like, supposing someone sent you a free mouse. Would you perform an autoposy on it?
Weigh it?
Measure how much force it takes to click the mousebuttons?
Other?
Or do you simply collect info from other mouse scientists?
Nice to know that, so both sensors are really good and don't disappoint! I agree with you, we do have high standards and research a lot to avoid buying some "crap" hardware :p ! Yeah, from what you're saying, there's a better way to spend my money, instead of buying DA2013 :D
With you saying that I'm really considering importing mionix (even if I have to pay more for that) everything about this mouse seems to be great, from the construction, sensor, to the ergonomics, looks like one hell of a mice!
From my options right now, I'm between the mionix avior 7000 and the corsair m40, sensor wise they are kinda tied, what would define it could be the format of the mouse itself, but since I can't test any of them, that would be more of a "blind" buy. Do you have any advice on that?
@MaximilianKohler I'm sorry dude, I've opened it on my cellphone and then when I moved to the computer I completely forgot! I've read it now and thanks for the input! About the cooperhead, I don't know if I got a faulty one, but when I moved mine horizontally (especially in cs 1.6) my crosshair started going up, and I tried all the cmd comands, mouse fix, etc, at that time. Then I got the 3.0, and man, wonderful! DPI wise, I think that the 400 are perfect for me, don't need more. I play mostly cs 1.6, now moving to cs:go, played a loooong time competitive, still take it "seriously" online, but meh. Currently I'm using windows 7 and overclocking it to 500hz, plan on getting w8, that would be that bad? And comparing the sensors, I'm used to the one that the 3.0 has, to me, no problems at all! I've watched your videos, and it seems that after testing all the other mices, you still preffer the 3.0, is that right?
@MaximilianKohler really? that's nice to know...hope that they get the sensor right this time. About the cooperhead you must be right, I know that when that happened, was a deal breaker for me.I currently use the Benq xl2411z. Which is a 24" 1920x1080 monitor. I also use extended desktop with my old 2233rz.
I have a few questions if you don't mind answering! I'll be acquiring a 27" monitor soon enough, and will start playing games at 2560x1440...I know it's quite high resolution, do you think that 400 dpi would be too low for that? Ingame and while browsing? I mean, I would have to change that much my sens? And do you think if I got a mionix for example, if I use 800 dpi via software to help with the increased resolution and kinda balance this increase by lowering my sens ingame would be the same? Would it result in the "same" perception with a 400 dpi or would be a lot diferent? Or just stick with 400 dpi anyway? I ask that because of the new monitor and gaming at higher resolutions, if that would be that big of a deal. Don't know if that would be any help, but I was used this cfg when I player: 640x480 ingame, windows sens 6, 1000hz, no accel and 2.4 sens ingame, with the 3.0, 400 dpi I guess.
ADNS is just their model name, avago deadly noobkiller sensor or something (no idea what it actually stands for. but they're the same. as is PixArt 3310 / PixArt PMW3310 / PixArt PMW3310DH, afaik. please correct me if I am wrong)
ADNS is just their model name, avago deadly noobkiller sensor or something (no idea what it actually stands for. but they're the same. as is PixArt 3310 / PixArt PMW3310 / PixArt PMW3310DH, afaik. please correct me if I am wrong)
LOL. Are you in marketing by any chance ;)
@MaximillianKohler Do you think it's slow to move around, I mean, slow to the point that will start bothering? I'll use a slightly higher resolution, so I don't know about that. I think I'll try with the 3.0 in higher resolutions, and if it's totally ok, great. Also I'm worried about the hz, it's 125 default I think, that would be really bad, don't know how to resolve that. That last thing, I didn't understood quite well, what would be "useable" DPI? Thanks for the help!Useful DPI is covered here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1251156/an-overview-of-mouse-technology/0_50#user_v
Just wanted to chime in and say that the Roccat Kone Military does not track on an Steelseries I-2 (icemat v2). However, my Logitech g502 tracks fine on the I-2, even without surface calibration. Kind of a bummer, since I gave up my Ratpadz XT for an I-2 (not going back) and I really liked the ergonomics of the Kone Military. It would also be nice to add any problems with tracking on certain surfaces for mice on the list. Keep up the good work on the thread, I have it bookmarked and think it's definitely the best up to date mouse guide out there.
the DA's and Avior's lower sidebutton make a muffled sound when press, whereas the Avior's upper side button make a very prominent high pitched clickSame on mine, it sounds like pretty normal although i had a doubt and watched several reviews on youtube
Logitech G402 is another good option, and I think you might like the Kone Pure Military as well.@munch. Thanks for the quick reply as always :)
Naos 7000 is very big, I would not even bother trying that one if you prefer a little bit smaller.
it's hard to get an idea of what kind of grip you like, but if the DeathAdder is your favourite grip, maybe you should do like me and wait for the new Zowie EC-series with 3310 sensors... :P
the Kone Pure Military is not as filling of the hand as the IE3.0/DA are, as it has a curve on the right side too that goes inwards. and G402 is just a slightly different style.
but you also listed a few Ambidextrous mice - have you tried any that you like? they're very different gripping styles.
@J.B I did a review and comparison of the FK1 and KPM here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd along with the avior7000, rival, and G502.
If sensor is your #1 priority I'd recommend the KPM. But if the KPM shape is too wrong for you then I'd go with whichever one of the others fits your hand and grip best.
That's not to mention the MLT04 mice though, which are still #1 by a significant margin - http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.msg1421432#msg1421432
@Grim Fandango, The Greatest mouse guide till date. Could you please also add other mice having 3310 sensor and omron switches(which are missing from this thread). Thanks!
The Asus Strix Claw is way overpriced at $140 + 7.50 shipping: http://www.amazon.com/GX1000-Strix-Optical-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B00MI8I0R2Fortunately, it is available at a lower price of Rs 3750(around 58-59 USD) in India :D
@MaxmillianKohler, how about Ninox Aurora(customized Avago 3090 sensor)? Its out :)The shape looks really appealing, but it uses this sensor: http://www.overclock.net/t/1440395/avago-3090-4000-dpi-rom-is-not-a-valid-gaming-mouse-sensor-please-release-a-firmware-update-to-save-the-kana-v2/0_50
Source: http://ninox.org/shop.html
or shall we wait for a similar shell implementing 3310/3366 sensor which you know would take another 3 years? :P
Why are sensors that important? My list of criteria for a good mouse would be:
- does it work flawless?
- how does it look & feel? (for small hands, big hands)
- durability
- price
By the way, I think most mice are hugely overpriced. I’m using an MX310, which is not too bad. My last MX310 died after about 8 years, and I bought a new one for a reasonable price of about 13 € on eBay from China. I fancy a R.A.T. 7 mainly for the reason, that I hope my hands will have a more comfortable grip on that mouse. But I would never spend a retail price of 90 € or the like.
The KPM felt better.
Anyone tried the logitech G502?
Seems appealing to me but I would like to know what it is like from someone who has used it.
I'm big on MMOs, WoW in particular.
Are there good mouse for that? my g600 has finally succumbed to the double click issue.
g502 overhyped? why, just because it didn't feel good to you?
have you seen all the reviews and, more importantly, all the tests done?
hype is hype, so you can just ignore that. but the tests speak for the sensor, and the 3366 is currently unmatched.
i don't use the g502, but certainly not because of the sensor.
I'm big on MMOs, WoW in particular.
Are there good mouse for that? my g600 has finally succumbed to the double click issue.
I currently own a RAT 3 and while it fits my hand perfectly I'm needing a second mouse for my desktop. I was wondering if any of the mice on the list have a similar ergonomic feel?
I'm liking the sensor but my 1440p monitor means I'm using it on max dpi(fingertip grip).
At this point I'm thinking of just buying another rat3 (in white).
Should I?
isn't that sensor a laser sensor?
I did just that a little while ago and while I am very happy with my white optical RAT 3, I would rather get the new Tournament Edition. Still lightweight, still comfortable, but it has two big improvements. The sensor is a big upgrade, very accurate, tracks well and goes up to 8200DPI without problem. It also has an extra thumb button which you can use to switch DPI while it's pressed. Very nice for large desktops where you want to be able to switch between moving quickly and moving precisely, or in FPS games as a "sniper" mode.
isn't that sensor a laser sensor?
I did just that a little while ago and while I am very happy with my white optical RAT 3, I would rather get the new Tournament Edition. Still lightweight, still comfortable, but it has two big improvements. The sensor is a big upgrade, very accurate, tracks well and goes up to 8200DPI without problem. It also has an extra thumb button which you can use to switch DPI while it's pressed. Very nice for large desktops where you want to be able to switch between moving quickly and moving precisely, or in FPS games as a "sniper" mode.
plus I'm REALLY not a fan of those colors...
has anyone used the G302 Daedalus Prime?
I'm hoping it has the g402's sensor without being quite so LONG.
Anyone tried the logitech G502?
Seems appealing to me but I would like to know what it is like from someone who has used it.Show Image(http://normalizer01.liveclicker.com/thumb/2437/1030036656_1_Flv_512x288_thumb_3.jpg/logitech-g502-proteus-core-tunable-gaming-mouse-3.jpg)
It looks promising , I will look reviews bout it ! Thank you very much , but are there any choices too ?
^deicide3, Mionix Naos 7000? it's pretty large.It looks promising , I will look reviews bout it ! Thank you very much , but are there any choices too ?
I think it's the best choice here. otherwise, Logitech G100s is also pretty good... more similar to the Abyssus, than the G302. however not as nice overall, IMO.
Zowie FK1 is a so-so choice here, due to having a bit harder to press buttons, but a great mouse overall. somewhat bad scroll wheel. but it has a great sensor.
roccat kone pure military is nice, and smaller, but it is also very differently shaped from your Abyssus so it might not work very well.
^deicide3, Mionix Naos 7000? it's pretty large.is it bigger than g400?
the fUnc is using an Avago 9500 sensor, which is not as good as the PixArt 3310 used in the Naos 7000. but their shells are very similar.ok thanks
I find that the Naos is a bit more comfortable though.
http://mionix.net/mice/naos-7000/
you can see more here :)
nice, let us know how you like it when you get it! :) and make sure you get the latest firmware and such too, they changed a lot lately.i have no idea anymore
The KPM felt better.
Exhausted, I pulled the trigger on KPM :)
I was more tempted towards Ninox Aurora since that was out after a lot of personal hard work from the maker(you know who)
Everything seems to be good.
Omron switches with the perfect shells(as described in esreality forums)
Size, shape and weight - pretty decent
Since, it took almost 3 years for it to be developed which was started with Avago 3090 sensor and is finally made with the same.
I couldn't wait for this mouse to come out with 3310 sensor and so, KPM was my final choice.
I'll wait for it to arrive(no ETA provided). If it doesn't feel comfortable. I might have to switch to Ninox Aurora or Zowie Fk1 compromising with either the sensor or the click-switches respectively :D
I'll post my reviews about KPM after a good use :)
Any reason the Kone XTD Optical isn't on this list? Doesn't it use the same S3988 as the DA? Has there just not been enough testing on the XTD to say whether it has smoothing and acceleration or not?
Any reason the Kone XTD Optical isn't on this list? Doesn't it use the same S3988 as the DA? Has there just not been enough testing on the XTD to say whether it has smoothing and acceleration or not?
There a few models that are on the list to be added. I have not updated the guide in a while, but I will update and improve it in a few weeks once things settle down at work.
Any reason the Kone XTD Optical isn't on this list? Doesn't it use the same S3988 as the DA? Has there just not been enough testing on the XTD to say whether it has smoothing and acceleration or not?
There a few models that are on the list to be added. I have not updated the guide in a while, but I will update and improve it in a few weeks once things settle down at work.
Any reason the Kone XTD Optical isn't on this list? Doesn't it use the same S3988 as the DA? Has there just not been enough testing on the XTD to say whether it has smoothing and acceleration or not?
There a few models that are on the list to be added. I have not updated the guide in a while, but I will update and improve it in a few weeks once things settle down at work.
Are we getting any closer to this update? Looking forward to seeing it.
Good evening,
I bought the Logitech G502 and I was fine with it, but the last days I am feeling my hand "hurt & tiered" with it! I have my hand not too small, but when I tried it was fine, so I bought it! I like his HW and would love something to change for! something as good as Logitech G502 but more comfortable!
But I have MAC OS X (iMac 27") , and not all works well with! I thought on the Steelseries Wireless, or Cyborg RAT 9, Roccat Tyon, or anything else money it is not a problem! I tried also Razer Naga 2014 but between Logitech, I prefer Logitech!
Can anyone advise me something?
Good evening,
I bought the Logitech G502 and I was fine with it, but the last days I am feeling my hand "hurt & tiered" with it! I have my hand not too small, but when I tried it was fine, so I bought it! I like his HW and would love something to change for! something as good as Logitech G502 but more comfortable!
But I have MAC OS X (iMac 27") , and not all works well with! I thought on the Steelseries Wireless, or Cyborg RAT 9, Roccat Tyon, or anything else money it is not a problem! I tried also Razer Naga 2014 but between Logitech, I prefer Logitech!
Can anyone advise me something?
G303
so which mouse should i buy?
i play csgo..
450\400 dpi and Palm Grip.
hmm i try the fk2 on friend home and i was good to my hand little bit small but ok..so which mouse should i buy?
i play csgo..
450\400 dpi and Palm Grip.
I would look at Steelseries Rival, Zowie EC1/2-a, FK2(not really palm grip), or other Steelseries mice like Sensei or Kinzu.
G502 has one of the best sensors and is palm grip but it's a bit heavy for CSGO imo. Sensei and Kinzu have older sensors.
hmm i try the fk2 on friend home and i was good to my hand little bit small but ok..so which mouse should i buy?
i play csgo..
450\400 dpi and Palm Grip.
I would look at Steelseries Rival, Zowie EC1/2-a, FK2(not really palm grip), or other Steelseries mice like Sensei or Kinzu.
G502 has one of the best sensors and is palm grip but it's a bit heavy for CSGO imo. Sensei and Kinzu have older sensors.
g502 look to much big!
so what u think... .
how is da13?
btw im right hand.. g502 look left hand
so what do u think fk2 ?hmm i try the fk2 on friend home and i was good to my hand little bit small but ok..so which mouse should i buy?
i play csgo..
450\400 dpi and Palm Grip.
I would look at Steelseries Rival, Zowie EC1/2-a, FK2(not really palm grip), or other Steelseries mice like Sensei or Kinzu.
G502 has one of the best sensors and is palm grip but it's a bit heavy for CSGO imo. Sensei and Kinzu have older sensors.
g502 look to much big!
so what u think... .
how is da13?
btw im right hand.. g502 look left hand
Ahh, I see. Yeah I agree on FK2, the size is a little small if you want to palm grip (there's no round groove that extends to your inner palm).
The G502 is kind of like an MX518/G400 shell. I wish it was. There's lot of buttons and I didn't know how to grip it. It's definitely right-handed, but It does have some funky edges and angles.
The Deathadder is a decent choice. But my friend who was using it switched to FK1 after trying it lol. Now he can't seem to go back.
so what do u think fk2 ?hmm i try the fk2 on friend home and i was good to my hand little bit small but ok..so which mouse should i buy?
i play csgo..
450\400 dpi and Palm Grip.
I would look at Steelseries Rival, Zowie EC1/2-a, FK2(not really palm grip), or other Steelseries mice like Sensei or Kinzu.
G502 has one of the best sensors and is palm grip but it's a bit heavy for CSGO imo. Sensei and Kinzu have older sensors.
g502 look to much big!
so what u think... .
how is da13?
btw im right hand.. g502 look left hand
Ahh, I see. Yeah I agree on FK2, the size is a little small if you want to palm grip (there's no round groove that extends to your inner palm).
The G502 is kind of like an MX518/G400 shell. I wish it was. There's lot of buttons and I didn't know how to grip it. It's definitely right-handed, but It does have some funky edges and angles.
The Deathadder is a decent choice. But my friend who was using it switched to FK1 after trying it lol. Now he can't seem to go back.
i heard like he have lag or something like this ..but i know hes sensor very good
i see a lot of players useing the rival.. but i heard hes sensor die after 2\1 month and i didnt like the rival :>
EC2-a also uses the same Avago 3310 :thumb:QuoteThe FK2 is an amazing mouse. I use the FK1 myself and what I got is consistency that allowed me to build up muscle memory to get better.right now im with the ec2..
I don't think it's flawless but it's the closest thing I've used up to date. A softer left-right click and minute changes in the dimensions/shape would make it the perfect mouse for me.
Sensor wise, the Rival and FK2 both use the same sensor, the Avago 3310. It has to be one of my favorite sensors.
The Rival is a little heavier and larger. If you have liked anything like an Intellimouse 3.0 in the past, then there would be no better choice. It's a shame I can't give any direct review on it because I haven't used it extensively, but I remember watching this video for a good comparison:
Rival review:
edit: Your friend must have been talking about button lag on the FK series. Yes, there's a very small lag and it's a little more tiring than your usual mouse.
will buy the fk2 or ec2-a which have better sensor?
OK TY BROEC2-a also uses the same Avago 3310 :thumb:QuoteThe FK2 is an amazing mouse. I use the FK1 myself and what I got is consistency that allowed me to build up muscle memory to get better.right now im with the ec2..
I don't think it's flawless but it's the closest thing I've used up to date. A softer left-right click and minute changes in the dimensions/shape would make it the perfect mouse for me.
Sensor wise, the Rival and FK2 both use the same sensor, the Avago 3310. It has to be one of my favorite sensors.
The Rival is a little heavier and larger. If you have liked anything like an Intellimouse 3.0 in the past, then there would be no better choice. It's a shame I can't give any direct review on it because I haven't used it extensively, but I remember watching this video for a good comparison:
Rival review:
edit: Your friend must have been talking about button lag on the FK series. Yes, there's a very small lag and it's a little more tiring than your usual mouse.
will buy the fk2 or ec2-a which have better sensor?
OK TY BROEC2-a also uses the same Avago 3310 :thumb:QuoteThe FK2 is an amazing mouse. I use the FK1 myself and what I got is consistency that allowed me to build up muscle memory to get better.right now im with the ec2..
I don't think it's flawless but it's the closest thing I've used up to date. A softer left-right click and minute changes in the dimensions/shape would make it the perfect mouse for me.
Sensor wise, the Rival and FK2 both use the same sensor, the Avago 3310. It has to be one of my favorite sensors.
The Rival is a little heavier and larger. If you have liked anything like an Intellimouse 3.0 in the past, then there would be no better choice. It's a shame I can't give any direct review on it because I haven't used it extensively, but I remember watching this video for a good comparison:
Rival review:
edit: Your friend must have been talking about button lag on the FK series. Yes, there's a very small lag and it's a little more tiring than your usual mouse.
will buy the fk2 or ec2-a which have better sensor?
NOW FOR MY FRIEND :
he have 3 mouse he want to buy:
1.Logitech G302
2.steelseries sensei raw
3.Logitech G100s
he play also csgo//
which one is the best ? :
thank for thelp
he see shroud with g302 and he say this mouse look good :SOK TY BROEC2-a also uses the same Avago 3310 :thumb:QuoteThe FK2 is an amazing mouse. I use the FK1 myself and what I got is consistency that allowed me to build up muscle memory to get better.right now im with the ec2..
I don't think it's flawless but it's the closest thing I've used up to date. A softer left-right click and minute changes in the dimensions/shape would make it the perfect mouse for me.
Sensor wise, the Rival and FK2 both use the same sensor, the Avago 3310. It has to be one of my favorite sensors.
The Rival is a little heavier and larger. If you have liked anything like an Intellimouse 3.0 in the past, then there would be no better choice. It's a shame I can't give any direct review on it because I haven't used it extensively, but I remember watching this video for a good comparison:
Rival review:
edit: Your friend must have been talking about button lag on the FK series. Yes, there's a very small lag and it's a little more tiring than your usual mouse.
will buy the fk2 or ec2-a which have better sensor?
NOW FOR MY FRIEND :
he have 3 mouse he want to buy:
1.Logitech G302
2.steelseries sensei raw
3.Logitech G100s
he play also csgo//
which one is the best ? :
thank for thelp
Sure thing friend.
It would depend on what he likes best. Now we're entering territory of personal preference.
They have old sensors and in my opinion not the top choice, but I think when it comes to gaming mice it doesn't matter TOO much as long as you can play well with it.
Does your friend know the G303? G303 has the 3366 sensor, might want to look at that. G302 is good for dota, idk how good it is.
G100s was used by some pros before. I do love the shape. I can't give you my personal experience on these.
My favorite sensors are 3310 an 3366 so that's just what I go by recently.
he see shroud with g302 and he say this mouse look good :SOK TY BROEC2-a also uses the same Avago 3310 :thumb:QuoteThe FK2 is an amazing mouse. I use the FK1 myself and what I got is consistency that allowed me to build up muscle memory to get better.right now im with the ec2..
I don't think it's flawless but it's the closest thing I've used up to date. A softer left-right click and minute changes in the dimensions/shape would make it the perfect mouse for me.
Sensor wise, the Rival and FK2 both use the same sensor, the Avago 3310. It has to be one of my favorite sensors.
The Rival is a little heavier and larger. If you have liked anything like an Intellimouse 3.0 in the past, then there would be no better choice. It's a shame I can't give any direct review on it because I haven't used it extensively, but I remember watching this video for a good comparison:
Rival review:
edit: Your friend must have been talking about button lag on the FK series. Yes, there's a very small lag and it's a little more tiring than your usual mouse.
will buy the fk2 or ec2-a which have better sensor?
NOW FOR MY FRIEND :
he have 3 mouse he want to buy:
1.Logitech G302
2.steelseries sensei raw
3.Logitech G100s
he play also csgo//
which one is the best ? :
thank for thelp
Sure thing friend.
It would depend on what he likes best. Now we're entering territory of personal preference.
They have old sensors and in my opinion not the top choice, but I think when it comes to gaming mice it doesn't matter TOO much as long as you can play well with it.
Does your friend know the G303? G303 has the 3366 sensor, might want to look at that. G302 is good for dota, idk how good it is.
G100s was used by some pros before. I do love the shape. I can't give you my personal experience on these.
My favorite sensors are 3310 an 3366 so that's just what I go by recently.
g303 look like g302 ..
anyway if g303 for dota i he will buy the sensei raw\g100s ..
which sensor g100s use ?:P
btw on the fk2 1000hz or 500hz?
ty
on his stream his saying he use g302.. weird nvmhe see shroud with g302 and he say this mouse look good :SOK TY BROEC2-a also uses the same Avago 3310 :thumb:QuoteThe FK2 is an amazing mouse. I use the FK1 myself and what I got is consistency that allowed me to build up muscle memory to get better.right now im with the ec2..
I don't think it's flawless but it's the closest thing I've used up to date. A softer left-right click and minute changes in the dimensions/shape would make it the perfect mouse for me.
Sensor wise, the Rival and FK2 both use the same sensor, the Avago 3310. It has to be one of my favorite sensors.
The Rival is a little heavier and larger. If you have liked anything like an Intellimouse 3.0 in the past, then there would be no better choice. It's a shame I can't give any direct review on it because I haven't used it extensively, but I remember watching this video for a good comparison:
Rival review:
edit: Your friend must have been talking about button lag on the FK series. Yes, there's a very small lag and it's a little more tiring than your usual mouse.
will buy the fk2 or ec2-a which have better sensor?
NOW FOR MY FRIEND :
he have 3 mouse he want to buy:
1.Logitech G302
2.steelseries sensei raw
3.Logitech G100s
he play also csgo//
which one is the best ? :
thank for thelp
Sure thing friend.
It would depend on what he likes best. Now we're entering territory of personal preference.
They have old sensors and in my opinion not the top choice, but I think when it comes to gaming mice it doesn't matter TOO much as long as you can play well with it.
Does your friend know the G303? G303 has the 3366 sensor, might want to look at that. G302 is good for dota, idk how good it is.
G100s was used by some pros before. I do love the shape. I can't give you my personal experience on these.
My favorite sensors are 3310 an 3366 so that's just what I go by recently.
g303 look like g302 ..
anyway if g303 for dota i he will buy the sensei raw\g100s ..
which sensor g100s use ?:P
btw on the fk2 1000hz or 500hz?
ty
I think the G302 and G100s both use the same sensor, AM010.
I can't help you with G100s too much. Shroud used to use it, now he's on a G303.
1000hz on the FK2, you will get the right settings after you try it out. 400dpi/1000hz works for me.
Good evening,
I bought the Logitech G502 and I was fine with it, but the last days I am feeling my hand "hurt & tiered" with it! I have my hand not too small, but when I tried it was fine, so I bought it! I like his HW and would love something to change for! something as good as Logitech G502 but more comfortable!
But I have MAC OS X (iMac 27") , and not all works well with! I thought on the Steelseries Wireless, or Cyborg RAT 9, Roccat Tyon, or anything else money it is not a problem! I tried also Razer Naga 2014 but between Logitech, I prefer Logitech!
Can anyone advise me something?
G303
Love the G303 sensor and everything about it but from what I'm reading I cannot recommend it for comfort. Many complain about an awkward grip on it with the sides sticking out too much.
I'm guessing it was recommended for the same sensor (PMW3366) which then I would agree, if the sensor is a priority then G303 is the only option.
I would love to try it out soon though... or they should release this exact mouse in a G3/G400 shell.
If you liked the G503 sort of feel and want similar performing mice, with priority on comfort, I would look at Logitech G400s, Zowie EC1/2-a or FK2(FK2 not as comfortable), Steelseries Rival, Corsair M45, etc.
A lesser performing option, albeit good, would be a Razer Deathadder.
Heck, even Logitech's wireless mice are "good" if you really just want comfort (G700s, and the MX Master rofl).
Good evening,
I bought the Logitech G502 and I was fine with it, but the last days I am feeling my hand "hurt & tiered" with it! I have my hand not too small, but when I tried it was fine, so I bought it! I like his HW and would love something to change for! something as good as Logitech G502 but more comfortable!
But I have MAC OS X (iMac 27") , and not all works well with! I thought on the Steelseries Wireless, or Cyborg RAT 9, Roccat Tyon, or anything else money it is not a problem! I tried also Razer Naga 2014 but between Logitech, I prefer Logitech!
Can anyone advise me something?
G303
I�m unclear on a particular mouse spec and was hoping someone here could clear things up a bit. People (mostly gamers) talk about acceleration as being a negative thing, yet a spec that is frequently referred to on mice is always present. For example the CM Storm Spawn�s acceleration is listed as 20G, while the Logitech G402�s is 15G.
Is acceleration a good or a bad thing in this regard? In that case, is 15G better than 20G because there is less acceleration, or do I have that backwards and higher is better?
I'm using Logitech G400s, which has a Avago ADNS S3095 sensor, which if I'm not mistaken has a native CPIs of 800 and 3600 (correct me if I'm wrong here...).
Now I understand that using non-native CPI means interpolation has to be done by the sensor, but if the CPI I'm running at is an integer divisor of native CPI, then the interpolation is trivial, right? So using a mouse at for example 1200 or 1800 CPI with a 3600 sensor should have no effect on performance, and no jitter or any other problems. Is that correct, or am I missing something here?
I was wondering what sensor (or mouse) I should get for 1200/1400dpi and 100% in-game mouse sensitivity.
Edit: I am a user of a laser mouse with accelr. turned off (I can't tell if thats 100% legit) and I am wondering if switching to optical will make a difference.
it's 800 and 4000 for the G400S. (it was the G400 that has 800 and 3600.)
i suggest taking your question about interpolation over to overclock.net.
in the mice section (http://www.overclock.net/f/375/mice), they have a bunch of very knowledgeable people.
Avago ADNS-9800 (i think logitech calls their implementation of it the S9808)
it's a laser sensor, thus has the expected "speed-related accuracy variance" (commonly referred to as 'acceleration').
apparently has(had) some input lag, but maybe this has been fixed(?)
i guess it's not bad, but certainly not great :-)
I've searched through this thread but haven't found a very clear answer. I currently use a Logitech MX518 and an anywehre MX. My last few mice have all been MX518. I really enjoy the 5 button layout but the mouse is too slow (low DPI) even when mouse sensitivity is turned up in windows. At default it crawls along. The anywhere MX has a great sensor and I use it around the livingroom, soft, pant leg and kitchen table. It surves my need as a mobile mouse. I would like to replace my Logitech MX518 but don't know which models I should consider. The Logitech G400S seems like an obvious (ugly) choice. I want a similar right handed shape with a 5 button layout. I would prefer a better scroll wheel and like the wheel on the anywhere MX. I require a better sensor, preferably one that works on most surfaces. I've seen the Zowie FK1 mentioned in this thread. What are the recommended MX518 upgrades?
I will look into the Mionix Naos 7000 thought it is a bit on the expensive side but sometimes you need to pay for quality.
I've searched through this thread but haven't found a very clear answer. I currently use a Logitech MX518 and an anywehre MX. My last few mice have all been MX518. I really enjoy the 5 button layout but the mouse is too slow (low DPI) even when mouse sensitivity is turned up in windows. At default it crawls along. The anywhere MX has a great sensor and I use it around the livingroom, soft, pant leg and kitchen table. It surves my need as a mobile mouse. I would like to replace my Logitech MX518 but don't know which models I should consider. The Logitech G400S seems like an obvious (ugly) choice. I want a similar right handed shape with a 5 button layout. I would prefer a better scroll wheel and like the wheel on the anywhere MX. I require a better sensor, preferably one that works on most surfaces. I've seen the Zowie FK1 mentioned in this thread. What are the recommended MX518 upgrades?
Are we getting any closer to this update? Looking forward to seeing it.
Yes we are :). I had never imagined this guide would be visited this many times, and I feel a responsibility to keep it somewhat up to date. It will be a gradual one however, so I will start adding things one by one, and changing some small things in the guide, instead of doing one huge overhaul. I will start with the most popular mice that came out since the last update of the guide.
Not sure what that note about the Avior 7000 having jitters at high DPI means - I've never experienced the mouse jittering or misbehaving in any way.
Not sure what that note about the Avior 7000 having jitters at high DPI means - I've never experienced the mouse jittering or misbehaving in any way.
Not sure what that note about the Avior 7000 having jitters at high DPI means - I've never experienced the mouse jittering or misbehaving in any way.
I would like to supply aditional information on the RAT 3 (the optical black mad catz non-glossy version). It has been bought in August 2015.
An enotus mouse test (without the smoothness part), along with some lines in paint to show you the lack of jittering.
The mouse does NOT have its drivers installed (they don't help with anything), nor the programming software (I can easily remap the buttons with something like autohotkey while the coloured toggle doesn't give me any advantages). Testing has been done at the 3rd tracking speed (1800 DPI) on a white sheet of paper (in a good but not perfect condition). No modding or other things.
P.S. The mouse goes in the PC through a belkin 3-meter usb 2.0 cable (because mouse is far away).
Conclusion:
Precision - ~ about 98.5%
Default Polling speed: 879 Hz
Max speed: 2.39 m/s (I had to artificially try to get that speed, I doubt anyone would ever reach it under any gaming circumstances)
(sorry, no smoothness, I don't have experience testing it properly :D )
P.S.2. If stuff breaks within it, I have 2 years to send it back to warranty or re-solder things myself. Some people were able to keep it for over 3 years, it depends on your luck (some guys got not-so-well-made units). Most of them seem to be ok though, and it's selling as fast as fresh&hot bread :)
Thank you for your time, Grim Fandango!!! :thumb:
EDIT: It's not july for the picture - it's then when I started looking for a mouse and I have managed to find mine some time later :D
P.S.3. On the box it says ©2014 Mad Catz
I noticed the fk-2 is not on the list, If I am not mistaken it is the exact same mouse as the fk-1 except for a slightly smaller shell and curved lip at the very end for fingertips.
I thought this was an amazingly well written thread on mice, except I wish it addressed ergonomics at least in terms of size. Mouse size for me is as important as the sensor's quality because my very small hands cannot reach the side buttons on MOST mice including the arguably small zowie fk-1. It is truly a challenge finding a good comprehensive list of mice that meet that criteria. On returning my fk1. I am debating between the fk-2 and ec2a, hoping those will be ideal.
Any thoughts on the Asus ROG Gladius? I found it on sale here in Norway. My MS Basic Optical 2.0s are good, but they need an upgrade.
Apparently the Gladius uses a S988 sensor, and some people suffer from various problems like coating wearing off, click delay, double clicking and diagonal tracking problems.
It weighs 116g, a little bit too heavy for me I think.
Thank you for a comprehensive list and well-written words on mice and sensors. It is amazing to see peple take their time to write these things.
Also, this is my first post on this fantastic enthusiast-filled forum. I hope to spend some time here. :D
Why isnt g402 on this list?
Any "New Mice" on the Horizon..
If not, I think, I'mma get another g502, gave my last one away..
Any "New Mice" on the Horizon..
If not, I think, I'mma get another g502, gave my last one away..
Two new FinalMouse models are supposed to come out very soon.
SteelSeries just released a Rival 100.
Zowie just refreshed their lineup with some small changes.
Why did you give away your g502? Are you looking for something with a similar shape or no?
Any "New Mice" on the Horizon..
If not, I think, I'mma get another g502, gave my last one away..
Two new FinalMouse models are supposed to come out very soon.
SteelSeries just released a Rival 100.
Zowie just refreshed their lineup with some small changes.
Why did you give away your g502? Are you looking for something with a similar shape or no?
Well, like when people come over my house, i give them stuff.. Cuz I have a shopping problem and I end up with triples and quadruples of the electronics I actually use....
I've gotten the habit under control for the past 2 years.. but overall.. yea that's why I gave my previous g502 away.. I am still using what I consider the best mouse though my G400 non-anglesnapper @ 800dpi.
I need to buy a 502 because I got 2 computers now that I regularly draft on ..
If you're running 800 cpi, stick with the G400/MX518. Nothing beats it. I only changed away from mine because 800 cpi simply wasn't enough anymore for 2560x1440 after remaining stubborn and struggling with it for way too long. Wanted to keep a good thing going. I still want to go back to one of them right now :p
@Grim Fandango: What are your thoughts on the new Ducky "Secret Mouse"? I really like the fact that it is made of PBT and that it does not have those knobbly rubber side-grips that have become ubiquitous on mice these days. I still use my Razer DA Black Edition, but I am starting to look for replacments in case it ever wears out.
from time to time i check the mice section on overclock, but haven't really seen any 'proper' reviews on the Secret.
So the Mcat 3 sensor thing is "cool" in theory..
but i really wonder how much their team is able to flesh-out the full potential of each sensor, when they now have to break out into managing 3 different sensors.
I feel like in the end, they're just handing us an average product with reference tuning..
Since the logitech g402 is stil "in testing phase" i would like to know what alternative do i have for the same price, or cheaper.
I have been looking at some mice and have seen some that could be a good alternative, and i need a little bit of help :confused:
Are any of those a good alternative? SteelSeries Rival 300, Mionix Avior 7000 or ROCCAT SAVU. If not, whats your recommendation?
And one last question, so far how are the opinions about the logitech g402, more positive or more negative?
Hey guys do you know if the Zowie EC2-A huano switches are compatible with the Omron D2FC-F-7N? I like the actuation force of my deathadder, but I want a smaller mouse with a better sensor (1800 dpi deathadder purchased around ~2009).
Hey guys do you know if the Zowie EC2-A huano switches are compatible with the Omron D2FC-F-7N? I like the actuation force of my deathadder, but I want a smaller mouse with a better sensor (1800 dpi deathadder purchased around ~2009). I have an ergodox so i figure if all i need to do is unsolder the huano and solder in the omron it should be easy, also there was a video posted on youtube of a complete dissasembly for the ec2-a
How long until they have Orion switches. I am considering getting the ec1 a or the fk. I have a weird hybrid grip that is slanted which one would you recommend. Also first post
You can indeed just desolder the huanos and solder in omrons. Though keep in mind the clicks still won't be quite as light as the DA due to shell design differences.
My question: I'm searching for a mouse with as many buttons as possible for a mid budget. It should be rather big (i palm grip and have rather big hands, so the Performance MX e.g. is as small as i'd go) and have a decent sensor. I don't game with it, it's for work only. So sensor is not the number one priority. Apart from LMB, RMB and mouse wheel press i'd need a minimum of 5 side buttons (forward, back, and every key modifier). More is better (used for common shortcuts and macros). All Buttons need to be assignable (Apart from LMB, RMB and MMB) to minimum a keyboard key combination (alpha plus minimum 2, better 3 modifiers). If the software provides more options for the buttons, thats a bonus. I can do nearly everything through AHK if i can assign keyboard shortcuts to buttons.
hey everyone, very informative read indeed :thumb:
My question: I'm searching for a mouse with as many buttons as possible for a mid budget. It should be rather big (i palm grip and have rather big hands, so the Performance MX e.g. is as small as i'd go) and have a decent sensor. I don't game with it, it's for work only. So sensor is not the number one priority. Apart from LMB, RMB and mouse wheel press i'd need a minimum of 5 side buttons (forward, back, and every key modifier). More is better (used for common shortcuts and macros). All Buttons need to be assignable (Apart from LMB, RMB and MMB) to minimum a keyboard key combination (alpha plus minimum 2, better 3 modifiers). If the software provides more options for the buttons, thats a bonus. I can do nearly everything through AHK if i can assign keyboard shortcuts to buttons.
I looked at the G600, which looks decent, but is on the "smaller" side of what works for me. Mad Catz is out for being to slim in every dimension. The Roccat Nyth looks really perfect (could try it live till now), but is uber expensive for a work mouse. The Corsair M95 looks good, but i'm not sure how big it is and how well Corsair peripherals are made.
So what would you recommend to me?
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2374831,00.asp
Anyone else want a good joke?
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2374831,00.asp
Anyone else want a good joke?
Pc Mag has always been n00b stuff ..
Because they're obliged to appease their advertisers.
A computer forum, is really the only place you can say, Hey razer, **** you.. your keyboards SUCK..
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2374831,00.asp
Anyone else want a good joke?
Pc Mag has always been n00b stuff ..
Because they're obliged to appease their advertisers.
A computer forum, is really the only place you can say, Hey razer, **** you.. your keyboards SUCK..
i think this is the first time i've seen you curse.
and ergo dox is now made by razer? TIL
so what mouse will give me the more headshots at the 80$ range?
requirment: being able to change dpi profile on the mouse direcly
What do you guys think about the Kinzu v3?
I'm using G303 but I went back to Kinzu v2 pro because the shape and weight for me is better. Another choice would be the zowie fk2 but the newer white logo version is still not available here.
What do you guys think about the Kinzu v3?
I'm using G303 but I went back to Kinzu v2 pro because the shape and weight for me is better. Another choice would be the zowie fk2 but the newer white logo version is still not available here.
I'm still not convinced the Zowie prices are justified..
Especially since the only products they got on the list are still 3090 sensors, even then, there was the input lag issue..
Which says they're not up to snuff to the same degree as more experienced makers..
The 502 is imho the ideal choice atm, because everything else costs more, and doesn't give you anything extra.
What do you guys think about the Kinzu v3?
I'm using G303 but I went back to Kinzu v2 pro because the shape and weight for me is better. Another choice would be the zowie fk2 but the newer white logo version is still not available here.
I'm still not convinced the Zowie prices are justified..
Especially since the only products they got on the list are still 3090 sensors, even then, there was the input lag issue..
Which says they're not up to snuff to the same degree as more experienced makers..
The 502 is imho the ideal choice atm, because everything else costs more, and doesn't give you anything extra.
What do you guys think about the Kinzu v3?
I'm using G303 but I went back to Kinzu v2 pro because the shape and weight for me is better. Another choice would be the zowie fk2 but the newer white logo version is still not available here.
I'm still not convinced the Zowie prices are justified..
Especially since the only products they got on the list are still 3090 sensors, even then, there was the input lag issue..
Which says they're not up to snuff to the same degree as more experienced makers..
The 502 is imho the ideal choice atm, because everything else costs more, and doesn't give you anything extra.
Zowie mice have been using the 3310 for a while now. FK1 debuted with it in the summer of 2014, then they refreshed the FK as the FK2 and then the EC series as the EC1-A and EC2-A a while later and now they have the ZA series that sports it. They also lowered the click delay somewhat, not as low as Logitech (though nobody really is), but it's as good as most of the other companies now.
Any info on the old Logitech Mx 1000? (Possibly the first laser mouse) Mine is over 12 years old and still going strong, battery life still lasts days!Mine also. Unreal battery life. It can be replaced fairly easily though if it goes.
Like I said, they've improved the latency since the older mice. IIRC they're generally around 7-8ms slower than a G303 these days which puts them in the category of standard.
Anyone using the MX Master? I had the Performance MX but found the resolution lacking for multi screen engineering. Love hyperscroll though.
I am currently running the G700s and a RAT 9. Both with up to 1000hz. And yes, I can notice a difference between 500hz and 1000hz. I know it is only 1ms difference but if you are engineering or programming or both down to pixels it is noticeable.Anyone using the MX Master? I had the Performance MX but found the resolution lacking for multi screen engineering. Love hyperscroll though.
Get the G602, it's really the only choice atm, because logitech knows what they're doing..
However, the same problem with all wireless mices continue to this day..
Essentially,, the BEST sensors uses lots of POWER.. (for a mice)..
Therefore, the best most accurate tracking will NEVER come from a wireless mouse, unless this thing is allowed to kill the battery in like a day..
Honestly, I don't know why they don't make a wireless mouse that is designed from the get-go to swap batteries.. I think it'd be kinda cool to finish a gaming session, and then gotta recharge.. like a "mouse reload" hahahahaha
But I'm sure they group tested it, and people found it annoying over time..
STill,,, if you want the best tracking, ,that will inherently be power limited , and therefore MUST be wired..
If you're ok with Decent tracking.. then get the G602.. the 700s is good too, but, the 602 is newer i believe, so it probably includes fixes for the mistakes they've made on the g700.
Forgot to mention, the G602 is limited to 500 hz.. that's not a huge issue.. but again it can affect you if you're one of them uber-pr0-g4m3rz
Anyone using the MX Master? I had the Performance MX but found the resolution lacking for multi screen engineering. Love hyperscroll though.
so... i finally got a g502 since it's the "spiritual successor" to g9x.
Way too heavy and big even without weights, wrist hurt after gaming. Using it at work for casual use and it seems okay for now but bleh.
I'd get a spawn but it only goes up to 3500 dpi
dunno what to get, considering g303 but it looks like it has a weird shape too...
so... i finally got a g502 since it's the "spiritual successor" to g9x.
Way too heavy and big even without weights, wrist hurt after gaming. Using it at work for casual use and it seems okay for now but bleh.
I'd get a spawn but it only goes up to 3500 dpi
dunno what to get, considering g303 but it looks like it has a weird shape too...
so... i finally got a g502 since it's the "spiritual successor" to g9x.
Way too heavy and big even without weights, wrist hurt after gaming. Using it at work for casual use and it seems okay for now but bleh.
I'd get a spawn but it only goes up to 3500 dpi
dunno what to get, considering g303 but it looks like it has a weird shape too...
Shame you didn't ask here about it first since I would have told you the G502 is not a replacement for the G9x at all (only in terms of being their most high end wired gaming mouse). G303 does indeed have a weird shape, some people are fine with it, some don't like it but eventually tolerate it and others simply never like it at all (and even experience cramping). Spawn I personally don't care for a ton because of the ridges on the right, but if you don't mind that (or even like it) then it could be good. I'd probably say check out the Xornet II instead though since the Spawn has meh firmware (pretty much all of the versions have pros/cons).
Sadly, there really just isn't a good replacement for the G9 (my favorite shape and I've tried numerous mice). I keep hoping logitech will bring it back with the 3366 sensor but it was probably too niche for them to consider. These days I use the Zowie ZA13, it's not a super similar shape but it's fairly short, the front is low and the back contacts my palm in a similar way as the G9 so I like it well enough.
http://store.madcatz.com/platforms/pc/Mad-Catz-R-A-T-PRO-X-Ultimate-Gaming-Mouse-for-PC.htmlI'm more interested in the PRO S, mainly because it's not priced to high heavens but I'm also not particularly interested in the additional features of the X.
So how is this holding up?
I thought that the firmware made a huge difference in the performance of the mice so how are they handling a mouse that can use 3 different sensors?
Curious to see how it plays out. Wasn't impressed with the input lag of the rat 7 so I doubt that this will be any better.
^ I finger grip too and bought g502. too heavy and big. I have a g303 coming to try!
g9x is the best feel but discontinued and flawed sensor :/
^ I finger grip too and bought g502. too heavy and big. I have a g303 coming to try!
g9x is the best feel but discontinued and flawed sensor :/
This input latency graph sums up nicely why Zowie is too new to the field, and don't really know what they're doing.Show Image(http://cdn.overclock.net/c/cd/cd43a575_button_latency_testing_overall_141207.png)
Relative to g300.This input latency graph sums up nicely why Zowie is too new to the field, and don't really know what they're doing.Show Image(http://cdn.overclock.net/c/cd/cd43a575_button_latency_testing_overall_141207.png)
How do you even get negative input latency?
Just busted out my WMO 1.1Supposedly WMO can run at 8k hz.
Does 1000hz on modern usb ports no problem..
I can't believe we had this technology in 2001..
Clearly, Bill Gates traveled to the future and stole technology...
Just busted out my WMO 1.1Supposedly WMO can run at 8k hz.
Does 1000hz on modern usb ports no problem..
I can't believe we had this technology in 2001..
Clearly, Bill Gates traveled to the future and stole technology...
Over usb??Over usb 3
Over usb??Over usb 3
http://www.overclock.net/t/1589644/usb-mouse-hard-overclocking-2000-hz
Over usb 3
http://www.overclock.net/t/1589644/usb-mouse-hard-overclocking-2000-hz
see op... you need xhci which afaik implies a mobo with usb3.0
but you don't need to plug into a 3.0 port
Will that conflict with the logitech gaming software ?
What is the benefit of OC'ing the polling rate to such a degree? At a certain point things like your monitor become the bottleneck, surely.
So... replacement mousefeet for the WMO cost more than another WMO.. hahahahahahaha
I'm depressed now..Show Image(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/depressed2-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862499)
So... replacement mousefeet for the WMO cost more than another WMO.. hahahahahahaha
I'm depressed now..Show Image(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/depressed2-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862499)
yeah, prices for pre-made mouse feet are ridiculous.
today i received a few sheets of teflon ptfe with which i'll be able to create my own feet.
it's like 100 times cheaper than ordering pre-made feet..
if you wouldn't mind taking the time to cut/shape your own feet, i recommend you do the same.
when i have time later today i'll be making my first pair. i think i'll just use a stanley knife to cut the shapes out and then use sandpaper for detailing. i have thin aslan double-sided tape that i will use to stick the material onto the mice.
would be awesome if i can find a way to make small holes in the feet, so that i can reach the screws without having to take the feet off :-)
More companies ought to do what Ducky has done with their "Secret Mouse" and put the screws in accessible locations so that there is no need to remove the feet or punch through a label to access the screws.So... replacement mousefeet for the WMO cost more than another WMO.. hahahahahahaha
I'm depressed now..Show Image(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/depressed2-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862499)
yeah, prices for pre-made mouse feet are ridiculous.
today i received a few sheets of teflon ptfe with which i'll be able to create my own feet.
it's like 100 times cheaper than ordering pre-made feet..
if you wouldn't mind taking the time to cut/shape your own feet, i recommend you do the same.
when i have time later today i'll be making my first pair. i think i'll just use a stanley knife to cut the shapes out and then use sandpaper for detailing. i have thin aslan double-sided tape that i will use to stick the material onto the mice.
would be awesome if i can find a way to make small holes in the feet, so that i can reach the screws without having to take the feet off :-)
More companies ought to do what Ducky has done with their "Secret Mouse" and put the screws in accessible locations so that there is no need to remove the feet or punch through a label to access the screws.
Oh ho... Hrrmm.. I no think about that before.. Hrrrm... now.. how do you know the teflon you get though is the kind that's suitable for mousefeet..
I see all this complicated description on the brand-name mouse feet, silver-infused ? hahahaha..Show Image(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/ahaaah-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862489)
EU legislation dictates that a warranty cannot depend on a sticker or seal.More companies ought to do what Ducky has done with their "Secret Mouse" and put the screws in accessible locations so that there is no need to remove the feet or punch through a label to access the screws.
i absolutely agree. although it's easier for a company to hide screws under labels so that it always immediately shows that it's been opened, and thus that the warranty has been voided. ("you opened it so it's not our concern what's wrong with your mouse")
Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/cLh8qZb.jpg)
it could've been done a lot better, but i'll go with it ;DOh ho... Hrrmm.. I no think about that before.. Hrrrm... now.. how do you know the teflon you get though is the kind that's suitable for mousefeet..
I see all this complicated description on the brand-name mouse feet, silver-infused ? hahahaha..Show Image(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/ahaaah-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862489)
yeah, i understand what you mean. i just rolled the dice and got a few sheets..
don't forget that every brand seems to ship their mice with different feet. the same goes for aftermarket feet. if you ask me, it doesn't have to be the exact same material as one of the companies use. as long as it glides the way you like it, right?
anyway, i'm not sure if what i have is the exact same stuff as Hyperglide material, but at least it is very similar. i suspect it is the same material, but it looks they have treated it so that it's more smooth, probably a very fine sanding or maybe even a mild chemical treatment.
i won't be able to tell how my my new feet compare until they're broken in a bit. the hardest part for me was trying to smooth out the feet.. i sanded them down a little bit but i guess the paper i used was a bit too rough :-)
but yeah, these feet cost me only a few cents and a little bit of work. beats paying extreme prices for factory-cut feet, in my opinion.
edit: i still have no clue what the weird C-shaped thing near the sensor on the G100s does, so i decided to remove it and not apply a new piece.
it's an experiment, i suppose. originally i was going to leave it, but i'm just curious to see if anything about the tracking feels different.
can't say i'm noticing a difference without the thing there, though..
such a mystery! ;D
I just ordered them 1mm sheets .. it's only $15 for 500x500mm , ships from China, this is gonna take a while.. hahahaha
This will probably last a lifetime though, if you think about it....
Did you try the 2mm sheets.. I'd think they'd be too thick for most mice prolly..
What do you mean sand down.. I think my plan wouldn't be to use sand paper, I'd just take some printer paper and rub really hard at the edges I cut..
Also.. maybe try burning the edges.. HAHAHAHA.. (heat treatment? use a heat-gun/blowdryer)
Lastly, I believe the C-ring is to reduce image wobble around the sensor.. because when you move the mouse, you're not actually moving it perfectly flat, you're actually using it in a tilting motion.. so the c-ring would keep the surface more flush and flat against the sensor.
I just ordered them 1mm sheets .. it's only $15 for 500x500mm , ships from China, this is gonna take a while.. hahahaha
This will probably last a lifetime though, if you think about it....
Did you try the 2mm sheets.. I'd think they'd be too thick for most mice prolly..
What do you mean sand down.. I think my plan wouldn't be to use sand paper, I'd just take some printer paper and rub really hard at the edges I cut..
Also.. maybe try burning the edges.. HAHAHAHA.. (heat treatment? use a heat-gun/blowdryer)
Lastly, I believe the C-ring is to reduce image wobble around the sensor.. because when you move the mouse, you're not actually moving it perfectly flat, you're actually using it in a tilting motion.. so the c-ring would keep the surface more flush and flat against the sensor.
nice :-)
i've used 1mm on my G100s and it's working great so far. i just wasn't able to get the feet very smooth/polished, so hopefully i can find a way to smooth them out a bit better. (heat doesn't even sound that bad!)
if you find a method that works well, let me know :-P
and it depends on the sensor/mouse how thick you want the feet. some mice have a very low LOD, and in those cases even 1mm might be too thick. but of course if that's the case, you can just sand them down a bit - the material is very soft so it's not hard to do at all :-) but i've just ordered 0.5mm sheets for sensors that have a very low LOD. it was cheap, anyway :-)
and yes, 500mmx500mm is a lot of feet :-P
you're probably right about what that C does. the difference is probably just too small for me to notice :-)
when you say --smooth--, do you mean the cut edges or face..
when you say --smooth--, do you mean the cut edges or face..
well, both. as one.
quick image to show what i mean:Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/zBOOBXR.png)
left is hyperglide- it's totally smoothed out, there are no edges or imperfections.
right gives you an idea how mine turned out - it's inconsistent and nowhere as smooth.
i couldn't think of a good way to get it nicely round and smooth. i did do a little bit of sanding to make all the edges a bit less sharp, but it's far from perfect :-) it's hard to work with such small shapes - hard to get perfect.
so, with mine you can feel the extra friction from the bad rounding-out job. it's not bad, but having them smoother would be nice :-)
Mines like 17 cm roughly lol. You can adjust weight but even with 0 weights in the g502 it's too heavy and fatigues my wrist after like 20 minutes of gaming. I took off the weight panel just to strip it down to be even lighter and it seems okay now... but I keep it at work for casual use.
I should have 303 on Monday!
I don't feel like getting into the full argument, but we're not doing bicep curls with the mice so pointing out they're not 50kg isn't really relevant; it's an entirely different use of muscles. If you're a low sensitivity gamer, you can absolutely get fatigued earlier with a 120g mouse than something that's like 90-100g and the difference in weight will affect your movements anyway (how easy/quick it is to start/stop and such). That 20g you think is minuscule can actually a really big difference depending on how and how long you play (especially when you factor in shape/size making mice feel lighter/heavier than they actually are as well). Of course, most people play at a really high sensitivity and don't move their wrist more than a cm or two, which largely negates the effect of weight.
Mines like 17 cm roughly lol. You can adjust weight but even with 0 weights in the g502 it's too heavy and fatigues my wrist after like 20 minutes of gaming. I took off the weight panel just to strip it down to be even lighter and it seems okay now... but I keep it at work for casual use.
I should have 303 on Monday!
Do you have it yet? Do you like it? :O
-- It is absolutely preposterous to say -- the mouse must be 100g and 120g will destroy your k/d R..
Mines like 17 cm roughly lol. You can adjust weight but even with 0 weights in the g502 it's too heavy and fatigues my wrist after like 20 minutes of gaming. I took off the weight panel just to strip it down to be even lighter and it seems okay now... but I keep it at work for casual use.
I should have 303 on Monday!
Do you have it yet? Do you like it? :O
haven't used it yet lol :P soonTM...
@tp4tissue
lifting? we doing highest precision "work" with a mouse. More than 20% (G502 121gr) weight compared to a 100gr is a hugh difference.
I like 80gr mice, so the diffenrence is even greater.
Thinking about lifting: if you are able to bench press 100KG, 120KG is also a hugh difference too.
Weight is always a personal preference question. But 20% more of it is nothing I would easily adapt to it.
Mines like 17 cm roughly lol. You can adjust weight but even with 0 weights in the g502 it's too heavy and fatigues my wrist after like 20 minutes of gaming. I took off the weight panel just to strip it down to be even lighter and it seems okay now... but I keep it at work for casual use.
I should have 303 on Monday!
Do you have it yet? Do you like it? :O
haven't used it yet lol :P soonTM...
k finally took it out of the box. I like it so far, it took a few seconds to get used to the weird ass shape since the slope is more exaggerated and there isn't a higher place for my thumb to rest but i'm liking it so far, very light and good for finger grip. much better replacement for shell-less g9x
Mines like 17 cm roughly lol. You can adjust weight but even with 0 weights in the g502 it's too heavy and fatigues my wrist after like 20 minutes of gaming. I took off the weight panel just to strip it down to be even lighter and it seems okay now... but I keep it at work for casual use.
I should have 303 on Monday!
Do you have it yet? Do you like it? :O
haven't used it yet lol :P soonTM...
k finally took it out of the box. I like it so far, it took a few seconds to get used to the weird ass shape since the slope is more exaggerated and there isn't a higher place for my thumb to rest but i'm liking it so far, very light and good for finger grip. much better replacement for shell-less g9x
A worthy replacement?
@tp4tissue
as expected no argument from your side.
You brought up lifting, so I catch it up to show you how useless your comment was. Gaming at PC has nothing to do with muscle power.
And a_ak57 is totally right, nobody talks about k/d r since you bring that in the talk.
@Omron WMO
yes, imo it's a good thing, no problems with anything
It has the 3310, which is "perfect" enough for most but technically not the best sensor available (3366/3360).
It has the 3310, which is "perfect" enough for most but technically not the best sensor available (3366/3360).
What's the difference?
If I'm running standard DPI options that is (I don't really need the extra software for the G502)
http://www.ncix.com/detail/fnatic-gear-flick-optical-gaming-59-124551-2061.htm
Func (under the branding of Fnatic) is making a mouse with the 3310 as well.
I wonder how these mice perform.
The Ducky secret should be arriving soon.
Incredible disappointment. I'm new to this forum and I created an account solely for this reply. The mouse doesn't work with the software at all. It doesn't detect it apparently. Without the software it's locked to 125Hz, I think. Here --> http://i.imgur.com/WtqPmT0.png The sensor also seems to randomly stop working ALL THE TIME. Look at this --> http://i.imgur.com/qBpBeFT.png *** is wrong with the mouse! I'm consistent with the DA but when I try, and YES I'm trying, to draw spirals it buggers up somehow. I can't even explain this properly. It just acts so strangely. It also seems to have more smoothing than the DA but that's something I, personally, am not hindered by. Everything else about the mouse seems to be fine for the most part. The mouse feet are VERY noisey and the finish on the bottom of the mouse is very rough and horrible looking. It also has a cheapey-looking "Q.C Pass" sticker over the screw hole. Overall, not impressed AT ALL.
http://www.ncix.com/detail/fnatic-gear-flick-optical-gaming-59-124551-2061.htm
Func (under the branding of Fnatic) is making a mouse with the 3310 as well.
I wonder how these mice perform.
The Ducky secret should be arriving soon.
Stumbled upon this impression (http://www.overclock.net/t/1580789/fnatic-gear-flickg1/120_20#post_24835928) over on Overclock.net while browsing on Google Images. Looks like a QC issue, since others have mentioned it's performing decently. I should read up on it.QuoteIncredible disappointment. I'm new to this forum and I created an account solely for this reply. The mouse doesn't work with the software at all. It doesn't detect it apparently. Without the software it's locked to 125Hz, I think. Here --> http://i.imgur.com/WtqPmT0.png The sensor also seems to randomly stop working ALL THE TIME. Look at this --> http://i.imgur.com/qBpBeFT.png *** is wrong with the mouse! I'm consistent with the DA but when I try, and YES I'm trying, to draw spirals it buggers up somehow. I can't even explain this properly. It just acts so strangely. It also seems to have more smoothing than the DA but that's something I, personally, am not hindered by. Everything else about the mouse seems to be fine for the most part. The mouse feet are VERY noisey and the finish on the bottom of the mouse is very rough and horrible looking. It also has a cheapey-looking "Q.C Pass" sticker over the screw hole. Overall, not impressed AT ALL.Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qBpBeFT.png)
Interesting review of sorts. I wonder how accurate such a test is.
i think you should not use the brush because it's not true 1:1 registration. i think the brush tool was designed to make smooth lines for you..
i was told to use the regular Pencil to get a true image of what movement is actually being registered.
nonetheless, there's an obvious difference between those flick and da results. maybe this was done on a hard pad? (the 3310 does not perform well on hard pad - at least, not as good as it does on cloth.)
125hz is too low for 2016, though. if it's a gamer mouse, ship it out with 500 at least.. 125 is not acceptable anymore, for a gaming mouse that is.Interesting review of sorts. I wonder how accurate such a test is.
well if he's honestly trying to make spirals, then his results do show there's something not quite 100% there.
you can also see that his "spirals" for the flick seem very blocky, relative to the DA.
i read that the LOD is very high, so my guess is that the reviewer was using a hard pad, which can be an issue for the 3310.
reading through the Flick thread, some people do seem to like the mouse. but apparently there are some issues like jitter, and even pixel walk! and its LOD is extremely high, which is a big downside if you plan to play (FPS) games..
edit: i will certainly be passing on it, it just doesn't seem like a professional product to me. i see many complaints about the software and sensor performance. high LOD that you can not adjust, the need to install software to change polling rate.. i even read that the bottom part is dragging over the mouse mat for some because the mouse feet are not thick enough, lol. apparently the polling rate is not stable either, which is probably why they shipped it with 125hz in the first place. reports of lens rattle. and any mouse with pixel walk.. just stay away from it:
However from just starting to use it, the mouse either doesn't track on my mousepad that well or has skipping because I notice that it doesn't register some movements sporadically.
Unless it's defective, I noticed that when drawing spirals the pointer slowly moves upwards.
I'm pretty certain that the mouse is not moving upwards on the mousepad so that begs the question if maybe there's vertical acceleration but that should even out when spiralling downwards.
However from just starting to use it, the mouse either doesn't track on my mousepad that well or has skipping because I notice that it doesn't register some movements sporadically.
Unless it's defective, I noticed that when drawing spirals the pointer slowly moves upwards.
I'm pretty certain that the mouse is not moving upwards on the mousepad so that begs the question if maybe there's vertical acceleration but that should even out when spiralling downwards.
which mouse pad? the sensor in the ducky secret is known to have issues on some (hard) surfaces. i have a Zowie FK2 with the same sensor, and it performs bad on my aluminium pad and my plastic pads..
try a black cloth mouse mat if you have one, it should give you good results.
(also, i'd suggest using the Pencil in mspaint, since it looks like you're using Brush?)
edit: couldn't find anything about a similar problem (although it's difficult to google for). i only found a thread with a different problem, but since it links to a firmware update i'll paste it nonetheless:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1583936/solved-with-firmware-update-ducky-secret-sensor-issue
the firmware update will probably not help you, but you might want to grab it in case it ever gets taken down.
However from just starting to use it, the mouse either doesn't track on my mousepad that well or has skipping because I notice that it doesn't register some movements sporadically.
Unless it's defective, I noticed that when drawing spirals the pointer slowly moves upwards.
I'm pretty certain that the mouse is not moving upwards on the mousepad so that begs the question if maybe there's vertical acceleration but that should even out when spiralling downwards.
which mouse pad? the sensor in the ducky secret is known to have issues on some (hard) surfaces. i have a Zowie FK2 with the same sensor, and it performs bad on my aluminium pad and my plastic pads..
try a black cloth mouse mat if you have one, it should give you good results.
(also, i'd suggest using the Pencil in mspaint, since it looks like you're using Brush?)
edit: couldn't find anything about a similar problem (although it's difficult to google for). i only found a thread with a different problem, but since it links to a firmware update i'll paste it nonetheless:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1583936/solved-with-firmware-update-ducky-secret-sensor-issue
the firmware update will probably not help you, but you might want to grab it in case it ever gets taken down.
Thanks I'll grab the firmware and do more tests tonight before installing it to see if it makes a difference. I'll watch to make sure I'm not actually inching the mouse forward a tiny bit every time...
I'll definitely try with the g502 when I get home then because I know that one works perfectly. The only uissue is that for my grip the g502 isn't great and the scroll wheel is acting up... gotta get an rma sighHowever from just starting to use it, the mouse either doesn't track on my mousepad that well or has skipping because I notice that it doesn't register some movements sporadically.
Unless it's defective, I noticed that when drawing spirals the pointer slowly moves upwards.
I'm pretty certain that the mouse is not moving upwards on the mousepad so that begs the question if maybe there's vertical acceleration but that should even out when spiralling downwards.
which mouse pad? the sensor in the ducky secret is known to have issues on some (hard) surfaces. i have a Zowie FK2 with the same sensor, and it performs bad on my aluminium pad and my plastic pads..
try a black cloth mouse mat if you have one, it should give you good results.
(also, i'd suggest using the Pencil in mspaint, since it looks like you're using Brush?)
edit: couldn't find anything about a similar problem (although it's difficult to google for). i only found a thread with a different problem, but since it links to a firmware update i'll paste it nonetheless:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1583936/solved-with-firmware-update-ducky-secret-sensor-issue
the firmware update will probably not help you, but you might want to grab it in case it ever gets taken down.
Thanks I'll grab the firmware and do more tests tonight before installing it to see if it makes a difference. I'll watch to make sure I'm not actually inching the mouse forward a tiny bit every time...
if you use Pencil, set Size to 1px to get a 1:1 ratio (1 count = 1 pixel). this will create the most "honest" pattern, that clearly shows what your PC picks up from your mouse.
more importantly, do the test with two (or even more) mice, that way you can see if this behavior only happens with the Secret (or if it's you!) :-)
from what i've read, the Secret is a good mouse. so i think (and hope) that your mouse isn't faulty.
Just an update I got back home and tried the same test with both my mice but didn't notice the "inching up" issue this time so maybe my hand was slowly inching up when I did the first test (I could have sworn I saw some skipping when using it on my desktop) so for now everything seems good!
I still have a copy of the firmware if ever something weird starts happening I can always try that before rmaing.
Just an update I got back home and tried the same test with both my mice but didn't notice the "inching up" issue this time so maybe my hand was slowly inching up when I did the first test (I could have sworn I saw some skipping when using it on my desktop) so for now everything seems good!
I still have a copy of the firmware if ever something weird starts happening I can always try that before rmaing.
I had the same skipping problem with my secret. Switching from a USB3 to USB2 port seemed to be the fix for me. No idea why that seems to be an issue but I've been using it since mid Feb with no issues.
Sometimes my mouse (RAT-5) will not be able to move horizontal, only vertical, then it comes back , does that mean it's dying?
What are the current go to go mouse for a 100$ budget? need at least 2 side buttons
Zowie mouses sem nice, which one to get tho?
So, the Sensei's sensor is actually garbage?
What about the old Logitech G3? That was the mouse I used before switching to the Sensei.
I've had accuracy issues ever since the switch, and arguably I even had them with the G3 from my prior ball mouse. It's been and endless downhill spiral.
I've gone this route because I need an ambidextrous mouse due to the way I hold it (fingertip claw hybrid). The Sensei was the closest to the G3 that I found, so I got it. Little did I know Steelseries' top end mouse was actually a piece of trash (and bigger than expected). I've gone through 3 of them now and I'm looking into replacing it finally.
I can't stand change so I was hoping to find something identical (ambidextrous, dual small side buttons on BOTH sides, one button for DPI switch on top, small profile). I see Steelseries made the Rival series of mice.. but they lack right side buttons, and the R700 has too much fluff on it, so they're all out of the question.
The new Logitech mouse (G900) with that "golden" 3366 sensor seems to be quite similar (if you can add the right buttons).. but the physical design of it is just atrocious, and it's $150.
Why do companies stop producing good mice?
You need G303..Lacks right side buttons, which I use as page up/down, both in games and in windows (especially in windows; damn essential).
You need G303..Lacks right side buttons, which I use as page up/down, both in games and in windows (especially in windows; damn essential).
If I didn't need them, I'd have Steelseries swap me to a Rival with my RMA, seeing as they have better sensors.
What is heaven on earth with a cable attached to it? What makes my cursor move so smoothly that it makes me cry that I want to have babies with my mouse?
Mx518: 400 and 1600
Mx518 (1800cpi): 800 and 1800
Ugh the ducky mouse is having sensor issues. Every now and again the mouse will just "jump" either up or down.
This is a fantastic write up! I was a little confused as to why my Avago 9800 'jitters' when I raise the cpi past 6,000. High cpi is great for my wrist but bad for my tracking :-[
Hmmm, looks like the Razor Naga falls in to the PLN2034 category. Thanks for the link! I've considered using an MMO mouse for the extra buttons but now I see there is more to that particular mouse. I'll probably have a collection by the end of this year :))This is a fantastic write up! I was a little confused as to why my Avago 9800 'jitters' when I raise the cpi past 6,000. High cpi is great for my wrist but bad for my tracking :-[
mice with Philips Twin-Eye sensors stay very sharp in their tracking at high cpi. they do have other shortcoming/issues, however.
but if you really love that high cpi stuff then you could look up some PTE mice to see if any of them seem interesting to you.
under "Doppler Shift" you'll find a bunch of mouse that use(d) this kind of sensor: http://www.overclock.net/t/854100/gaming-mouse-sensor-list
PLN2030 being the oldest version and PLN2034 being the newest
Ugh the ducky mouse is having sensor issues. Every now and again the mouse will just "jump" either up or down.
didn't someone say there was a firmware update.
also, Did you do the surface tuning ? I read it also haz the surface tuning..
The firmware that was posted is an older firmware. Haven't tried it but the issue is recent...
I did the surface tuning but who knows if the glass coated mousepad is interfering with the sensor. I'm not using the one that booper bought me yet beccause I want a wrist rest for my mouse haha so I'm still using the one that's really used and the surface is not even in color anymore. I'll try retuning the mouse but I distinctly remember doing that originally.
How's the G502 Quality control and mouse feet nowadays? And is the G303 rattle still there?
Considering buying either one of them... curious whether issues are fixed.
The firmware that was posted is an older firmware. Haven't tried it but the issue is recent...
I did the surface tuning but who knows if the glass coated mousepad is interfering with the sensor. I'm not using the one that booper bought me yet beccause I want a wrist rest for my mouse haha so I'm still using the one that's really used and the surface is not even in color anymore. I'll try retuning the mouse but I distinctly remember doing that originally.
do you have any other surfaces? it should work perfectly fine on regular cloth. i suppose there is a chance that the coating is upsetting the sensor.
mine did not work on hard pad at all, they just wouldn't register mouse movement 50% of the time.
but mine had no surface tuning stuff, so i'd recommend trying out different settings to see if that makes a difference.How's the G502 Quality control and mouse feet nowadays? And is the G303 rattle still there?
Considering buying either one of them... curious whether issues are fixed.
the G303 sensor rattle seems to be hit-or-miss. the G303 thread on overclock has a ton of complaints about it. some people tried out 4+ mice before they had one without the rattling. some just fixed it themselves by taping or even gluing the sensor stuck to the mouse..
roulette!
yeah, it's really unfortunate. an otherwise great choice now seems to be a bit of a gamble.
as for the G502, the only complaint i can think of right now is relatively quick double-clicking issues. but this issue is known to happen for most mice, at some point.
fixing it isn't hard though, but requires opening the mouse.
i've never had the issue once myself. maybe because i don't play MOBAs? :]
anyway, the G502 seems like a safe bet to me. albeit a heavy one :-P
yeah, it's really unfortunate. an otherwise great choice now seems to be a bit of a gamble.
as for the G502, the only complaint i can think of right now is relatively quick double-clicking issues. but this issue is known to happen for most mice, at some point.
fixing it isn't hard though, but requires opening the mouse.
i've never had the issue once myself. maybe because i don't play MOBAs? :]
anyway, the G502 seems like a safe bet to me. albeit a heavy one :-P
what double click issue ?
what double click issue ?
yeah, it's really unfortunate. an otherwise great choice now seems to be a bit of a gamble.
as for the G502, the only complaint i can think of right now is relatively quick double-clicking issues. but this issue is known to happen for most mice, at some point.
fixing it isn't hard though, but requires opening the mouse.
i've never had the issue once myself. maybe because i don't play MOBAs? :]
anyway, the G502 seems like a safe bet to me. albeit a heavy one :-P
what double click issue ?
Some attribute it to the supposedly "extreme low latency" of logitech's mouse buttons, some say it is inherent to the switch used for the mouse buttons.
I'm not entirely sure what it is and how to fix it. Whether this is a "hoax" or whether this is a genuine concern.
what double click issue ?
you do not know about this? :-X
or are you just skeptical about me claiming the G502 can have the issue?
it's basically where you click the button only once, but the mouse actually registers 2 clicks.
or when you hold the mouse button, sometimes the mouse actually registers a 'release', so you can't drag-and-drop anymore, or spray in a game like csgo.
if you'd google the (double click) issue you'll see that it's widespread. especially the razer deathadder mice are known to get the issue at some point.
yeah, it's really unfortunate. an otherwise great choice now seems to be a bit of a gamble.
as for the G502, the only complaint i can think of right now is relatively quick double-clicking issues. but this issue is known to happen for most mice, at some point.
fixing it isn't hard though, but requires opening the mouse.
i've never had the issue once myself. maybe because i don't play MOBAs? :]
anyway, the G502 seems like a safe bet to me. albeit a heavy one :-P
what double click issue ?
Some attribute it to the supposedly "extreme low latency" of logitech's mouse buttons, some say it is inherent to the switch used for the mouse buttons.
I'm not entirely sure what it is and how to fix it. Whether this is a "hoax" or whether this is a genuine concern.
yeah, it's really unfortunate. an otherwise great choice now seems to be a bit of a gamble.
as for the G502, the only complaint i can think of right now is relatively quick double-clicking issues. but this issue is known to happen for most mice, at some point.
fixing it isn't hard though, but requires opening the mouse.
i've never had the issue once myself. maybe because i don't play MOBAs? :]
anyway, the G502 seems like a safe bet to me. albeit a heavy one :-P
what double click issue ?
Some attribute it to the supposedly "extreme low latency" of logitech's mouse buttons, some say it is inherent to the switch used for the mouse buttons.
I'm not entirely sure what it is and how to fix it. Whether this is a "hoax" or whether this is a genuine concern.
All of those, to reduce Button latency you subsequently have to reduce Debounce time, the insides switches of the switches can bend over time which causes more bouncing due to overtravel(easy to see on the DA and EC), they can get dirty, they can oxidize, etc., and therefore the original debounce time doesnt work. A4Tech´s lightstrike switches are circumventing this problem by obv. using a lightstrike, Fühlen has a similar Solution as well, but it cannot be called a microswitch anymore.
yeah, it's really unfortunate. an otherwise great choice now seems to be a bit of a gamble.
as for the G502, the only complaint i can think of right now is relatively quick double-clicking issues. but this issue is known to happen for most mice, at some point.
fixing it isn't hard though, but requires opening the mouse.
i've never had the issue once myself. maybe because i don't play MOBAs? :]
anyway, the G502 seems like a safe bet to me. albeit a heavy one :-P
what double click issue ?
Some attribute it to the supposedly "extreme low latency" of logitech's mouse buttons, some say it is inherent to the switch used for the mouse buttons.
I'm not entirely sure what it is and how to fix it. Whether this is a "hoax" or whether this is a genuine concern.
All of those, to reduce Button latency you subsequently have to reduce Debounce time, the insides switches of the switches can bend over time which causes more bouncing due to overtravel(easy to see on the DA and EC), they can get dirty, they can oxidize, etc., and therefore the original debounce time doesnt work. A4Tech´s lightstrike switches are circumventing this problem by obv. using a lightstrike, Fühlen has a similar Solution as well, but it cannot be called a microswitch anymore.
Does this mean that the G502 is essentially flawed? Or that you need to tweak / fix it a little after a particular amount of usage?
yeah, it's really unfortunate. an otherwise great choice now seems to be a bit of a gamble.
as for the G502, the only complaint i can think of right now is relatively quick double-clicking issues. but this issue is known to happen for most mice, at some point.
fixing it isn't hard though, but requires opening the mouse.
i've never had the issue once myself. maybe because i don't play MOBAs? :]
anyway, the G502 seems like a safe bet to me. albeit a heavy one :-P
what double click issue ?
Some attribute it to the supposedly "extreme low latency" of logitech's mouse buttons, some say it is inherent to the switch used for the mouse buttons.
I'm not entirely sure what it is and how to fix it. Whether this is a "hoax" or whether this is a genuine concern.
All of those, to reduce Button latency you subsequently have to reduce Debounce time, the insides switches of the switches can bend over time which causes more bouncing due to overtravel(easy to see on the DA and EC), they can get dirty, they can oxidize, etc., and therefore the original debounce time doesnt work. A4Tech´s lightstrike switches are circumventing this problem by obv. using a lightstrike, Fühlen has a similar Solution as well, but it cannot be called a microswitch anymore.
Does this mean that the G502 is essentially flawed? Or that you need to tweak / fix it a little after a particular amount of usage?
yeah, it's really unfortunate. an otherwise great choice now seems to be a bit of a gamble.
as for the G502, the only complaint i can think of right now is relatively quick double-clicking issues. but this issue is known to happen for most mice, at some point.
fixing it isn't hard though, but requires opening the mouse.
i've never had the issue once myself. maybe because i don't play MOBAs? :]
anyway, the G502 seems like a safe bet to me. albeit a heavy one :-P
what double click issue ?
Some attribute it to the supposedly "extreme low latency" of logitech's mouse buttons, some say it is inherent to the switch used for the mouse buttons.
I'm not entirely sure what it is and how to fix it. Whether this is a "hoax" or whether this is a genuine concern.
All of those, to reduce Button latency you subsequently have to reduce Debounce time, the insides switches of the switches can bend over time which causes more bouncing due to overtravel(easy to see on the DA and EC), they can get dirty, they can oxidize, etc., and therefore the original debounce time doesnt work. A4Tech´s lightstrike switches are circumventing this problem by obv. using a lightstrike, Fühlen has a similar Solution as well, but it cannot be called a microswitch anymore.
Does this mean that the G502 is essentially flawed? Or that you need to tweak / fix it a little after a particular amount of usage?
I searched around it and it looks like Razer mice suffer the most from debounce. Maybe this was during the same period of time when they had keyboard switch problems? I had to hunt around for a few minutes before I found a G502 issue. A bad batch perhaps? Who knows
I searched around it and it looks like Razer mice suffer the most from debounce. Maybe this was during the same period of time when they had keyboard switch problems? I had to hunt around for a few minutes before I found a G502 issue. A bad batch perhaps? Who knowsyeah, it's really unfortunate. an otherwise great choice now seems to be a bit of a gamble.
as for the G502, the only complaint i can think of right now is relatively quick double-clicking issues. but this issue is known to happen for most mice, at some point.
fixing it isn't hard though, but requires opening the mouse.
i've never had the issue once myself. maybe because i don't play MOBAs? :]
anyway, the G502 seems like a safe bet to me. albeit a heavy one :-P
what double click issue ?
Some attribute it to the supposedly "extreme low latency" of logitech's mouse buttons, some say it is inherent to the switch used for the mouse buttons.
I'm not entirely sure what it is and how to fix it. Whether this is a "hoax" or whether this is a genuine concern.
All of those, to reduce Button latency you subsequently have to reduce Debounce time, the insides switches of the switches can bend over time which causes more bouncing due to overtravel(easy to see on the DA and EC), they can get dirty, they can oxidize, etc., and therefore the original debounce time doesnt work. A4Tech´s lightstrike switches are circumventing this problem by obv. using a lightstrike, Fühlen has a similar Solution as well, but it cannot be called a microswitch anymore.
Does this mean that the G502 is essentially flawed? Or that you need to tweak / fix it a little after a particular amount of usage?
I watched a few teardown videos of the g502, that top shell looks a bit thin. I guess I see what you mean
I watched a few teardown videos of the g502, that top shell looks a bit thin. I guess I see what you mean
So... what does that have to do with double clicking? Does it matter? Is it crappy quality?
I watched a few teardown videos of the g502, that top shell looks a bit thin. I guess I see what you mean
So... what does that have to do with double clicking? Does it matter? Is it crappy quality?
I don't have a G502 so I have no idea what build quality is like. I was just commenting on the thickness of the top shellShow Image(http://yoursmiles.org/ksmile/snail/k4706.gif)
Here's the thing with these mice.. they're not designed to LAST a long time..
for example, even on the Logitechs,
Plastic gets brittle over time.. and all of these mice just has screws going directly into the plastic..
Most of the time, the screwholes are shattered with age..
sigh.......... this happened to my mx510 in the back..
I had to repair it by drilling two holes on the bottom, and tying the back together to the screw using steel wire..
Here's the thing with these mice.. they're not designed to LAST a long time..
for example, even on the Logitechs,
Plastic gets brittle over time.. and all of these mice just has screws going directly into the plastic..
Most of the time, the screwholes are shattered with age..
sigh.......... this happened to my mx510 in the back..
I had to repair it by drilling two holes on the bottom, and tying the back together to the screw using steel wire..
Honestly, I believe that Mionix shells are of higher quality than logitech shells. But we'll see.. I only have my two avior 7000's for two years now.
It makes sense that quality is lower... they want you to keep coming back for more when it breaks. But it shouldn't be that way.
Here's the thing with these mice.. they're not designed to LAST a long time..
for example, even on the Logitechs,
Plastic gets brittle over time.. and all of these mice just has screws going directly into the plastic..
Most of the time, the screwholes are shattered with age..
sigh.......... this happened to my mx510 in the back..
I had to repair it by drilling two holes on the bottom, and tying the back together to the screw using steel wire..
Honestly, I believe that Mionix shells are of higher quality than logitech shells. But we'll see.. I only have my two avior 7000's for two years now.
It makes sense that quality is lower... they want you to keep coming back for more when it breaks. But it shouldn't be that way.
I Know righ?Show Image(http://img.emoticonplus.com/NQSB6.gif)
Here's the thing with these mice.. they're not designed to LAST a long time..
for example, even on the Logitechs,
Plastic gets brittle over time.. and all of these mice just has screws going directly into the plastic..
Most of the time, the screwholes are shattered with age..
sigh.......... this happened to my mx510 in the back..
I had to repair it by drilling two holes on the bottom, and tying the back together to the screw using steel wire..
Honestly, I believe that Mionix shells are of higher quality than logitech shells. But we'll see.. I only have my two avior 7000's for two years now.
It makes sense that quality is lower... they want you to keep coming back for more when it breaks. But it shouldn't be that way.
I Know righ?Show Image(http://img.emoticonplus.com/NQSB6.gif)
Especially if you're collecting. Perhaps hoping your kids will pick up where you left. But a G502 will never survive a legacy. WE ARE DOOOOOOMED
Here's the thing with these mice.. they're not designed to LAST a long time..
for example, even on the Logitechs,
Plastic gets brittle over time.. and all of these mice just has screws going directly into the plastic..
Most of the time, the screwholes are shattered with age..
sigh.......... this happened to my mx510 in the back..
I had to repair it by drilling two holes on the bottom, and tying the back together to the screw using steel wire..
Honestly, I believe that Mionix shells are of higher quality than logitech shells. But we'll see.. I only have my two avior 7000's for two years now.
It makes sense that quality is lower... they want you to keep coming back for more when it breaks. But it shouldn't be that way.
I Know righ?Show Image(http://img.emoticonplus.com/NQSB6.gif)
Especially if you're collecting. Perhaps hoping your kids will pick up where you left. But a G502 will never survive a legacy. WE ARE DOOOOOOMED
Legacy? Kids? Man (or lady idk.. maybe tp knows), some of us wear out equipment faster than othersShow Image(http://yoursmiles.org/ksmile/snail/k4710.gif)
Here's the thing with these mice.. they're not designed to LAST a long time..
for example, even on the Logitechs,
Plastic gets brittle over time.. and all of these mice just has screws going directly into the plastic..
Most of the time, the screwholes are shattered with age..
sigh.......... this happened to my mx510 in the back..
I had to repair it by drilling two holes on the bottom, and tying the back together to the screw using steel wire..
Honestly, I believe that Mionix shells are of higher quality than logitech shells. But we'll see.. I only have my two avior 7000's for two years now.
It makes sense that quality is lower... they want you to keep coming back for more when it breaks. But it shouldn't be that way.
I Know righ?Show Image(http://img.emoticonplus.com/NQSB6.gif)
Especially if you're collecting. Perhaps hoping your kids will pick up where you left. But a G502 will never survive a legacy. WE ARE DOOOOOOMED
Legacy? Kids? Man (or lady idk.. maybe tp knows), some of us wear out equipment faster than othersShow Image(http://yoursmiles.org/ksmile/snail/k4710.gif)
We'll see how the G502 will hold out once I get one. I'll put it through my rage test and see how it lasts.
Just ordered a G100s because I wanted to try this mythical 69grams.
I think putting d2f-01f 's in it will prolly push it to 70 though..
Just ordered a G100s because I wanted to try this mythical 69grams.
I think putting d2f-01f 's in it will prolly push it to 70 though..
Just ordered a G100s because I wanted to try this mythical 69grams.
I think putting d2f-01f 's in it will prolly push it to 70 though..
there's a weight in the top shell that you can unscrew too.
i actually put the weight back in..
maybe i didn't give it a fair chance to get used to it, but it was just too light
G100s has a good sensor yes? Honestly, it looks cheap to me.
If changing the buttons requires soldering, why not put in low profile topre? :D
G100s has a good sensor yes? Honestly, it looks cheap to me.
If changing the buttons requires soldering, why not put in low profile topre? :DShow Image(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/uhuhuh-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862523)
for $11.99, it IS cheap..
I looked at the PCB design online.. And from what I can tell, it doesn't look like the board would be torqued in any odd way for the traces to break.. So, my guess is, the problems people talk about switches double clicking and malfunctioning after 6 months, is likely due to the solder joint..
I noticed the recent logitech mice have all gone Lead Free.. so.. that might be the cause of the issue..
Good to know... I'm about to buy the G502 (and I want an G303 but those have the side tracking issue) once I've felt it in my hands.
(Cold) solder joint? Like literally where the switch pins are soldered to the PCB?
Good to know... I'm about to buy the G502 (and I want an G303 but those have the side tracking issue) once I've felt it in my hands.
(Cold) solder joint? Like literally where the switch pins are soldered to the PCB?
Most likely cold joints..
I noticed this when I took apart my G400 as well.. the soldering isn't very good.
Good to know... I'm about to buy the G502 (and I want an G303 but those have the side tracking issue) once I've felt it in my hands.
(Cold) solder joint? Like literally where the switch pins are soldered to the PCB?
Most likely cold joints..
I noticed this when I took apart my G400 as well.. the soldering isn't very good.
Those f**kers. I think these mice are expensive enough to solder properly.
Do you have the g303 yourself?
Good to know... I'm about to buy the G502 (and I want an G303 but those have the side tracking issue) once I've felt it in my hands.
(Cold) solder joint? Like literally where the switch pins are soldered to the PCB?
Most likely cold joints..
I noticed this when I took apart my G400 as well.. the soldering isn't very good.
Those f**kers. I think these mice are expensive enough to solder properly.
Do you have the g303 yourself?
No I no haz money for G303.. which is why I bought that $11.99 G100s..Show Image(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/sweating-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862522)
Funny, cuz I spent like $40 buying all these D2F-01F.... hahahahahahaha
No I no haz money for G303.. which is why I bought that $11.99 G100s..Show Image(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/sweating-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862522)
Funny, cuz I spent like $40 buying all these D2F-01F.... hahahahahahaha
No I no haz money for G303.. which is why I bought that $11.99 G100s..Show Image(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/sweating-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862522)
Funny, cuz I spent like $40 buying all these D2F-01F.... hahahahahahaha
G100s has one of the highest price-to-quality ratios imo, as long as you can live without side-buttons (which you probably can since you're used to the WMO).
btw, how many switches did you get for that $40? (ebay?)
No I no haz money for G303.. which is why I bought that $11.99 G100s..Show Image(http://emoticoner.com/files/emoticons/onion-head/sweating-onion-head-emoticon.gif?1292862522)
Funny, cuz I spent like $40 buying all these D2F-01F.... hahahahahahaha
G100s has one of the highest price-to-quality ratios imo, as long as you can live without side-buttons (which you probably can since you're used to the WMO).
btw, how many switches did you get for that $40? (ebay?)
yeah a lot of people use M4 for in-game voice-activation, but i only used those buttons for browsing as well.
and now that i'm sometimes using the WMO and G100s, i've gotten used to using ALT+left or right arrow, or just right click -> back/forward. even when i use mice with side-buttons, i just forget about them and use those shortcuts anyway..
side-buttons are almost always in the way of how i grip, i think the G400 is the only exception to this. maybe the IE3 as well, but i don't even remember (it's been a while!)
thanks tp4tissue, will check it out!
yeah a lot of people use M4 for in-game voice-activation, but i only used those buttons for browsing as well.
and now that i'm sometimes using the WMO and G100s, i've gotten used to using ALT+left or right arrow, or just right click -> back/forward. even when i use mice with side-buttons, i just forget about them and use those shortcuts anyway..
side-buttons are almost always in the way of how i grip, i think the G400 is the only exception to this. maybe the IE3 as well, but i don't even remember (it's been a while!)
thanks tp4tissue, will check it out!
I know what you mean, it's annoying. My thumb is relatively long apparently, so I touch the "sniper"-button I believe it is? on the g502 as well accidentally. Pff
yeah a lot of people use M4 for in-game voice-activation, but i only used those buttons for browsing as well.
and now that i'm sometimes using the WMO and G100s, i've gotten used to using ALT+left or right arrow, or just right click -> back/forward. even when i use mice with side-buttons, i just forget about them and use those shortcuts anyway..
side-buttons are almost always in the way of how i grip, i think the G400 is the only exception to this. maybe the IE3 as well, but i don't even remember (it's been a while!)
thanks tp4tissue, will check it out!
I know what you mean, it's annoying. My thumb is relatively long apparently, so I touch the "sniper"-button I believe it is? on the g502 as well accidentally. Pff
U mean the "n00b-camper" button. ?
yeah a lot of people use M4 for in-game voice-activation, but i only used those buttons for browsing as well.
and now that i'm sometimes using the WMO and G100s, i've gotten used to using ALT+left or right arrow, or just right click -> back/forward. even when i use mice with side-buttons, i just forget about them and use those shortcuts anyway..
side-buttons are almost always in the way of how i grip, i think the G400 is the only exception to this. maybe the IE3 as well, but i don't even remember (it's been a while!)
thanks tp4tissue, will check it out!
I know what you mean, it's annoying. My thumb is relatively long apparently, so I touch the "sniper"-button I believe it is? on the g502 as well accidentally. Pff
U mean the "n00b-camper" button. ?
That one yeah :P
Went to the store today to feel the g502 in mah hand. It feels smaller than my avior 7000. To be honest, it feels extremely crappy. All plastic works a little bit, squeeks a bit. Really weird. REALLY weird. Mouse button left / right uneven. Scroll wheel feels like it comes off a Trust mouse.
Am I doing the feelingz wrong?
yeah a lot of people use M4 for in-game voice-activation, but i only used those buttons for browsing as well.
and now that i'm sometimes using the WMO and G100s, i've gotten used to using ALT+left or right arrow, or just right click -> back/forward. even when i use mice with side-buttons, i just forget about them and use those shortcuts anyway..
side-buttons are almost always in the way of how i grip, i think the G400 is the only exception to this. maybe the IE3 as well, but i don't even remember (it's been a while!)
thanks tp4tissue, will check it out!
I know what you mean, it's annoying. My thumb is relatively long apparently, so I touch the "sniper"-button I believe it is? on the g502 as well accidentally. Pff
U mean the "n00b-camper" button. ?
That one yeah :P
Went to the store today to feel the g502 in mah hand. It feels smaller than my avior 7000. To be honest, it feels extremely crappy. All plastic works a little bit, squeeks a bit. Really weird. REALLY weird. Mouse button left / right uneven. Scroll wheel feels like it comes off a Trust mouse.
Am I doing the feelingz wrong?
Well, the store version is like the promiscuous-village-girl.. So..... I mean, it's been through alot, seen many hands, many rough hands..
Ya'll remember the M-BT58 ?
This was the Go-To for many offices..Show Image(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41hPp5HEKeL._SX425_.jpg)
It has a very low malfunctioning speed, so pretty much impossible to game with, even though it does do 570hz.
But check this out, They bothered to COUNTERFEIT this mouse.. hahahahahahah
What's was the point.. vvvvvvvvv
http://www.abclinuxu.cz/blog/Shteffi/2007/5/alzasoft-asi-prodava-falesne-logitechy
i wonder how big the counterfeit industry must be if they even did that mouse.
but maybe it's just because they know some miss the shape, and it was probably relatively easy to counterfeit..
i wonder how big the counterfeit industry must be if they even did that mouse.
but maybe it's just because they know some miss the shape, and it was probably relatively easy to counterfeit..
I just don't see how much extra money they could possibly make by going that route ..
I mean, that mouse, while fine for office work, is still fairly crummy
It happened a long time ago though.. During those times, Dollar vs Yuan was still 1:8 vs the 1:6.3 today...
So I guess even a few extra dollar bump was good..
Zowie EC1-A is out of stock anywhere can I get a good mouse recommendation? I palm grip and I don't like g502 because of the akward shape and the heavy weight?
tp4? is the list updated?
The issue however is... We don't really have many ways of testing it.. because most people don't own robotic arms at home..
Your post will be referenced for generations to come . Holly crap! . Good jobwhat? u wot m8? ???
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Updated and added a few mice (finalmouse 2015 and Logitech G Pro). I don't have time for a huge update, but since this thread still gets so many views I will start adding mice more frequently until the list is up to date and includes the most important models.
if you want? @Grim Fandango, i could help out a little bit by PMing you some mice and their specs, for example a few of the newly released 3360 mice
Hi there
I have a deathadder. When I choose 1000 as polling rate mouserate.exe still detect a value of ~500
I don't know why.
Anyone can help?
I Hope for your sake that your mouse didn't suffer through a power surge like mine did. Looks like a few capacitors were damaged (I don't have the equipment to check) and now the mouse (not a Razer) is stuck on 2k dpi :/I uninstalled Synapse and my mouse has nox a polling rate peaks of +1000hz
I Hope for your sake that your mouse didn't suffer through a power surge like mine did. Looks like a few capacitors were damaged (I don't have the equipment to check) and now the mouse (not a Razer) is stuck on 2k dpi :/I uninstalled Synapse and my mouse has nox a polling rate peaks of +1000hz
It works.
Also will unstalling synapse set the dpi to the native DPI?
About the G402. I am still waiting for some feedback on the mouse. Even though I know that there are already some knowledgeable people that have done in depth reviews on it. I don't like to add mice to the list without people using and testing them at least for a little while. There has to be enough information out there to say anything useful about it.
I have not answered you question yet about the G402 because Logitech is doing something new/different with the sensor, and I wanted to wait until a few people get their hands on it first. Essentially it uses a AM010 sensor. But they do something with it to increase the tracking speeds it can attain. So far, I have heard some positive and negative things.
From some tests however, it shows that people are able to make the sensor malfunction fairly easily, despite the solution that logitech applied. For now I will not add it to the list in this topic......
Planning to make some additions to the guide:
-Thinking about whether or not adding mice using the AM010 sensor such as the G100S and the G402.
-.......
What about the G402?
Why isnt g402 on this list?
Since the logitech g402 is stil "in testing phase" .......
........ And one last question, so far how are the opinions about the logitech g402, more positive or more negative?
If the samples are good then the mouse could be coming out in mid-late march.
Why aren't PMW 3360 mice like the Nixeus Rivel on this list?
Also, this verification nonsense to post is already old, and this is my first post.
i think they deserve to be on the list. they are "flawless" gaming sensors in the sense that there's no perceivable prediction or acceleration, and perform well enough for gaming for the majority of people.
they are dated by now, though. the AM010 is good, especially the "Gyroscope version", but the new G102 has a better sensor than the G100s, and the 3366 is better than the AM010 + Gyroscope..
nonetheless, they are worthy mentions :-)
There is the extremely interesting russian project, called W-mouse, for modifying some popular AVAGO ADNS-sensor-based mouses with incomparable precision and some other extremely advanced functions.
How to do (based on A4tech X-750 model)
http://tavsar.com/W3-mouse.html
Here russian discussion forum with latest news and firmware & software
https://forums.overclockers.ru/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=330808
use googletranslate to read it if have interest.
I still don't understand what they did ?
I still don't understand what they did ?
They have made dream mouse.
why is it so great though.. what's changed ?
can you give us some more info about it, such as sensor, shape, weight, etc. also would appreciate some english links if possible
why is it so great though.. what's changed ?
1. Extreme precision due to more precise assembling
2. Dynamic DPI - adjustable lowering DPI at hand speed-down in the end of movement - for dead shots in RPG; sometimes it was led to ban for cheating.
3. Advanced calibrating features with adoption to surface parameters
4. 6 Profiles for free
5. Free SW for geeks
Here about some settings http://people.overclockers.ru/Walkie/14127/Wcontrol_Programma_nastrojki_W-mouse/
Everybody who have tried it found it the best
why is it so great though.. what's changed ?
1. Extreme precision due to more precise assembling
2. Dynamic DPI - adjustable lowering DPI at hand speed-down in the end of movement - for dead shots in RPG; sometimes it was led to ban for cheating.
3. Advanced calibrating features with adoption to surface parameters
4. 6 Profiles for free
5. Free SW for geeks
Here about some settings http://people.overclockers.ru/Walkie/14127/Wcontrol_Programma_nastrojki_W-mouse/
Everybody who have tried it found it the best
How does this work though ?
Do mice have focus compensation or is it fixed?
if it's fixed, then the Precision does nothing, because the weight of your hand is enough to change the distance by more than half a millimeter.
How does this work though ?Sensor has the fixed focus, but mouse producer don't pay too much attention to adjust sensor-lens as exactly as diy-masters, because PCB soldered in automatic lines. The lens, at least it A4tech X-750, IS NOT FIXED (imaging floating lens in fotos). With W-mouse FW you can see picture from sensor.
Do mice have focus compensation or is it fixed?
if it's fixed, then the Precision does nothing, because the weight of your hand is enough to change the distance by more than half a millimeter.
Any reason why Logitech G403 is not on the list? It uses PMW3366 sensor.Apparently, the list hasn't been updated since the G403 was released.
It is a great mouse. Nothing really bad to say about it :)
Any reason why Logitech G403 is not on the list? It uses PMW3366 sensor.Apparently, the list hasn't been updated since the G403 was released.
It is a great mouse. Nothing really bad to say about it :)
I agree about the G403. I am using it now, and it's a keeper. I've now tested around 20 mice, and generally I have not liked the Logitech gaming mice. However, the G403 has been on my list for some time, based on recommendations that I've seen on GH and DT, and based on reviews by Rocket Jump Ninja.
Usually, I prefer large mice for my palm grip, and so I hesitated to try the G403 because it was one of the smaller ones on my list. Finally, I gave it a try a few days ago, and I liked it instantly. This surprised me because of its size, but the shape feels just right. Another surprise is that I liked its relatively light weight. Another plus is that the surface does not feel sticky after using it for a while -- a drawback of many mice I have tested. The scroll wheel is also nice and quiet with just the right amount of tactile feedback.
The G403 glide, buttons, lighting, software, and cable are all fine. It has an optional extra 10 gram weight held in place magnetically -- this is okay, but I am either indifferent or negative about extra weights.
I also value aesthetics -- this is the most subjective criterion of all, but I still think the Razer DA Elite is the best-looking mouse. However, I regard the G403 as a close second.
Overall, the G403 is one of the best mice I have tested. It joins my other keepers, which include the Razer DA Elite and SS Rival 300.
Any reason why Logitech G403 is not on the list? It uses PMW3366 sensor.Apparently, the list hasn't been updated since the G403 was released.
It is a great mouse. Nothing really bad to say about it :)
I agree about the G403. I am using it now, and it's a keeper. I've now tested around 20 mice, and generally I have not liked the Logitech gaming mice. However, the G403 has been on my list for some time, based on recommendations that I've seen on GH and DT, and based on reviews by Rocket Jump Ninja.
Usually, I prefer large mice for my palm grip, and so I hesitated to try the G403 because it was one of the smaller ones on my list. Finally, I gave it a try a few days ago, and I liked it instantly. This surprised me because of its size, but the shape feels just right. Another surprise is that I liked its relatively light weight. Another plus is that the surface does not feel sticky after using it for a while -- a drawback of many mice I have tested. The scroll wheel is also nice and quiet with just the right amount of tactile feedback.
The G403 glide, buttons, lighting, software, and cable are all fine. It has an optional extra 10 gram weight held in place magnetically -- this is okay, but I am either indifferent or negative about extra weights.
I also value aesthetics -- this is the most subjective criterion of all, but I still think the Razer DA Elite is the best-looking mouse. However, I regard the G403 as a close second.
Overall, the G403 is one of the best mice I have tested. It joins my other keepers, which include the Razer DA Elite and SS Rival 300.
Rocket Jump Ninja is afaik one of the few people to address tilt slam issues. Just thought I would throw in that fact for folks that have sensor spin out while browsing the web and other mundane tasks like I do. G403 is on my list for sure
Would love to see a mention of wireless gaming mice. Even if it's a statement how useless they are (and I'm not saying they are). I simply know they a thing, and curious to know how they hold up in a game context. Esp wrt to lag, and polling.
Would love to see a mention of wireless gaming mice. Even if it's a statement how useless they are (and I'm not saying they are). I simply know they a thing, and curious to know how they hold up in a game context. Esp wrt to lag, and polling.
Hi, My Logitech G100s mouse button problem is coming to breaking point. I've been patient with it, have opened it up 2 times already to straigthten the spring. It's garbage. Looking to buy new mouse right now.
I think the list needs to specify which Steelseries Rival model. I looked into Steelseries Rival 100 and it have different sensor. (https://steelseries.com/gaming-mice/rival-100)
Btw I keep doubleclicking things as I make this post. When I registered just before, it said that username is already taken, because it registered registration button multiple times right there.
Solder in a new switch.. G100s is top mouse. !!Maybe when I learn soldering. And how and where to get new switches from.
Mod thread here.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=81366.0