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geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: Matt3o on Fri, 27 November 2015, 05:16:12

Title: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Fri, 27 November 2015, 05:16:12
(http://i.imgur.com/Wz7d2Hy.jpg)

The long journey of the WhiteFox
A 4 years long adventure in search of the perfect 65%

I understand that nobody cares about the back story of the WhiteFox so I've hidden all the unessential parts and you can go straight to the point. For the other two sadists who want to know more about the whole process of building a "commercial" grade keyboard, go ahead, do harm yourselves, read the spoilers. Note: the facts may not be exposed in exact chronological order.

How it all started

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Coding long hours on a flat aluminum Apple keyboard gave me a very nasty sore to my left hand (fn, cmd, alt, ctrl) and brought me to search for alternative keyboards. I believe the first mechanical I bought was a Filco TKL with MX Red. A great board but my hunt for the perfect keyboard was just at the beginning.

All the keyboards I tried missed something, so I decided I had to build one myself. It had to be compact to reduce hand movements but I needed the arrow cluster, so my first (working) custom was born.

First experiments: the Steely and the BrownFox

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At the time I was able to only find a service that could laser cut steel, so why-the-hell-not and made my first layered case out of steel.

(http://i.imgur.com/rJmvyNg.jpg)

I really loved it. If you notice both the right and left hand modifiers are smaller than usual and in fact the number row staggering is not standard (number and wasd rows are aligned).

The keyboard was great but presented various problems. The first: steel is indeed hard. Too hard. Typing for long hours becomes tiring and uncomfortable. Secondly: weird key sizes makes impossible to find keycaps for this beauty.

That also explains how my first group buy started. I needed a keyset I could mix and match in any way I wanted to test as many custom layouts as possible. DSA Retro was designed and it was perfect for prototyping, no row discrimination, a gazillion size options and of course the retro style.

As much as I loved the Steely I needed to get real and the BrownFox saw the light.

I already had the DSA Retro set, so I made a wafer case out of brown acrylic and aluminum. The name came natural: BrownFox.

(http://i.imgur.com/MFsboMB.jpg)

The keyboard was amazing. Slightly flexible so typing was a pleasure again and with a saner key layout, much easier to find keycaps. It was still not perfect though. The arrow cluster was sometimes hard to find with touch typing and I understood that a small gap between the left arrow and the right control was required.

Also up to this point I always built hand-wired keyboard, while the outside layout was going to get better and better I felt that the inside needed more work.

(http://i.imgur.com/StpYhDA.jpg)

The Elf-Board

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(http://i.imgur.com/8OcRsMK.jpg)

Trying to perfect the BrownFox and in the effort to cut costs I made the Elf-Board. A keyboard made of Wood, Aluminum and Steel.

This was pure perfection. The gap made reaching the arrows easy as a pie. The layout was pretty standard and finding keycaps was not a problem anymore. The bottom steel plate added the right amount of stability, but the aluminum switch plate kept the keyboard flexible.

I also tried to build a rudimentary home-made PCB.

(http://i.imgur.com/4IkNAuU.jpg)

This was the very first custom keyboard I could say was "the end game"... but we all know there's not such a thing...

Bringing it to the next level

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One thing was clear to me at this point: it's not possible to build a one-of-the-kind custom keyboard at a reasonable price (if you want to keep a decent quality). No matter the materials you use, you end up handing 150 in a custom build (if you are lucky). And anyway the end result will always be "amateurish".

It was time to move to the next level. I started the Group Build prototyping phase (http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/group-build-prototyping-phase-t7474.html), the goal was to join forces to build a quantity keyboard keeping the price down.

Many layouts were discussed, some big:

(http://i.imgur.com/MRLD5QY.png)

some small:

(http://i.imgur.com/MAzt5EY.png)

More or less at the same time we saw an invasion of mini keyboards (like the JD40), so I decided to put the miniature boards on standby and concentrate again on a slightly bigger board.

So after months of discussions and a 50+ pages thread, the WhiteFox was finally taking shape.

The idea was still to build a sandwich case: two aluminum plates with frosted acrylic in the middle. The BrownFox owes its name to the color of DSA Retro and the middle brown acrylic layer... The name WhiteFox came consequentially.

Shaping the fox

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Probably the best thing that could have happened to the WhiteFox was the collaboration with InputClub. I knew that if Haata was going to get involved the WhifeFox would have turn from amazing to legendary.

The WhiteFox got a PCB a CNC'd case and with the help of MassDrop a Chinese manufacturer (well multiple manufacturers).

(http://i.imgur.com/O0U12i3.jpg)

I was super excited about it and so I started to ask more :) Anodized aluminum for starter, but also a white PCB and cone feet, countersunk screws, ...

(http://i.imgur.com/k9fbdcw.jpg)

The manufacturer once made by mistake an aluminum middle layer prototype (instead of frosted acrylic) and I was so thrilled about it that I asked a quote right away. Since the middle layer was CNC'd we could have better had the full keyboard tray CNC'd instead of having two layers (the sides and the bottom plate). The quote was actually cheaper than the wafer version, so the whitefox became the silverfox... but we kept the original name anyway.

I'm not going to bore you (more than I already did) with the minutiae of the whole prototyping phase. We switched multiple manufacturers for most of the parts until we found the right ones. I have dozens of samples and prototypes for the case, the plates, the keycaps, the screws, the feet. And in this process MassDrop was crucial and I can't thank Kunal enough for his continued support. If you are a MassDrop hater, you really don't understand how much time, dedication and money these guys put in the projects they like.

Anyway after approx 4 years from my first hand-wired 65% and about 1 year of active prototyping the WhiteFox is finally almost ready for the marketplace!

The WhiteFox

Following a two years discussion (http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/group-build-prototyping-phase-t7474-1710.html) and months of active prototyping, I'm proud to finally show you the fruit of our efforts.

Please bear in mind that we are still in Beta-1 phase, I don't have a 100% final WhiteFox yet, but we are very close now and I'm comfortable at showing you some pictures.

(http://i.imgur.com/X7ZdazF.jpg)

Again, the keycaps are not final, the legends are still hand aligned so some shifting is to be expected. The final version will be perfectly aligned. Anyway the keycaps are completely optional, if you have --say-- Granite or Round 5 you are good to go.

The Group buy will include

- Anodized CNC'd aluminum case
- Anodized aluminum switch plate (6 layouts available, see below)
- White PCB with SMD components pre soldered. Comes with default firmware and can be easily updated with a web based visual tool
- Aluminum (+rubber) cone feet
- Screws (of course)
- Costar stabilizers

The above is the bare minimum, if you like you can add any of the following:

- Switches (I'll try to give as many choices as possible). The board is Cherry MX compatible only
- Keycaps, cherry replica dye-sublimated PBT
- Braided gold plated micro-usb white-blue cable
- LEDs (yes, the PCB is backlight ready)

The PCB

(http://i.imgur.com/YMex32R.jpg)

In collaboration with I:C (http://input.club/), the firmware is a Haata's creature (http://input.club/kll). A PCB has been sent to Hasu, too so hopefully we will also have a TMK version (https://github.com/tmk/tmk_keyboard).

SMD components come already soldered, just add switches and LEDs if you want. I'll try to make a full tutorial as soon as I get all the final components.

Customizing your layout is super easy thank to the online configurator (http://input.club/configurator). Cross platform, web based. Design your keyboard and download the compiled firmware, ready to be flashed.

The case

(http://i.imgur.com/tqbVngJ.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/enG9Ta8.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/JnBuOJ9.jpg)

High quality CNC aluminum case with a wonderful silver anodized texture. Feet are also made of aluminum.

Supported layouts

The PCB supports a gazillion layouts, including ISO, but we couldn't offer a plate for each of them. Also I excluded a multi-layout plate because the switches are exposed and it would look like ****.

The following are the supported layouts:

(http://i.imgur.com/2uIhowb.png)

#1 Vanilla is the easiest to the eye. It is relatively easy to source custom keycaps if you don't want the stock ones. The only weirdly shaped key is the 1.75 right shift. The 1u modifiers in the bottom row are pretty easy to find. As you can see, there's no gap on the arrow cluster, if you feel you don't need it, this layout is a safe bet.

#2 ISO Same as above, ISO version. Unfortunately we don't have an ISO with the gap in the arrow cluster.

#3 Aria Same as vanilla but with a gap in the arrow cluster. All modifiers are standard sized, you only need a 1.75 right shift. This is the layout I suggest if you don't want the all she-bangs (ie: #5 The True Fox)

#4 Winkeyless If you prefer 7u spacebar and 1.5u modifiers, this is the layout for you

#5 The True Fox This is the real deal. This is the WhiteFox as it is always meant to be. No compromises. Gap on the arrow cluster. 1.75 right shift. 1.5 backspace in lieu of the \| key. I know it might seem too much for some of you, but believe me, this is the result of years of experiments and you should really give it a chance. This is the layout I suggest to anybody.

#6 Jack of all trades This layout has all standard sized keycaps. It is compatible with basically any keycap set on the market.

Keycaps

Keycaps are PBT cherry replica. Thickness is just right. Not too thick (that creates problems with LEDs), not too thin. The texture is very nice and the legends are incredibly sharp.

(http://i.imgur.com/jv0uA5A.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/y7YA94T.jpg)

Shut up and take my money!

The Group Buy will start (hopefully) before Christmas. I'll post more pictures as soon as I get the final revision. I can't yet give you a price tag BUT it will be less than you'd expect from a custom keyboard of this kind. The craftiest of you I bet can hazard an estimate. In the coming days I'll post more details, so stay tuned and subscribe to this topic.

Acknowledgements

Once again, let me stress on the fact that none of this would have even been possible without the continued support of Andrew, Kunal and Wu from MassDrop.

Also a special thank to the guys from the Input Club, especially Jacob and Brandon who patiently agreed to all my nuts-breaking little requests.

And of course all those who participated to the "interest check" and followed the project since the beginning.

Official FAQ (http://matt3o.com/whitefox-faq)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Hexterdude on Fri, 27 November 2015, 05:18:32
I'm digging this custom and might make it my first! Is there any info you can give about the leds?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: raymogi on Fri, 27 November 2015, 05:21:20
Damn this thing is sexy. I might not need it, but I want it. Even more so with that limited edition one.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Fri, 27 November 2015, 05:31:28
I'm digging this custom and might make it my first! Is there any info you can give about the leds?

backlight will be very simple this time, it's all-or-nothing but you can set the LED brightness (3-4 steps I guess).

Even more so with that limited edition one.

Iknowrite?!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: LeandreN on Fri, 27 November 2015, 06:39:15
Well. I think i have to jump on this. Amazing creation Matt3o.

Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: njbair on Fri, 27 November 2015, 08:03:02
Looks neat. The Gon-style case is a good look for smaller form factors. And I like all the slightly-larger-than-60% keyboards starting to appear.

Personally, I'm planning to pick up a clueboard instead, since it's a proven layout and already supports TMK natively, and skullydazed has done some awesome work in the Geekhack community lately. But it's nice to know there are more options for folks who just need arrow keys sometimes.

I was surprised to see you mention this will be a group buy, I just assumed it would run on Massdrop instead. I'm sure anything with the name matt3o on it will have no problems hitting MOQ though, even without the Massdrop overhead.

Who knows... maybe if I get some extra Christmas money I'll pick one up!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: bocahgundul on Fri, 27 November 2015, 08:07:55
Really really nice bro that thing looks good
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: bubbedi on Fri, 27 November 2015, 09:06:01
This board looks so amazing.. Excited about the caps you mentioned - alternate layouts like dvorak/colemak will not be supported i presume?  :)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: njbair on Fri, 27 November 2015, 09:20:37
This board looks so amazing.. Excited about the caps you mentioned - alternate layouts like dvorak/colemak will not be supported i presume?  :)
Looks like they're DSA. Since they're flat profile you can swap letters between rows.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Fri, 27 November 2015, 09:59:17
they are cherry replica. unfortunately you can't mix and match them... but you can always get some Granite  :) A new batch is also coming next year.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: bubbedi on Fri, 27 November 2015, 11:04:02
they are cherry replica. unfortunately you can't mix and match them... but you can always get some Granite  :) A new batch is also coming next year.

Yeah, me wanting them cherry replica's with colemak support! :) - Matt3o my generous God, of course I have your delicious Granite already. And your Retro SA for that matter. Huge fanboy. I guess i can live with it having the wrong legends. That grey set you talk about sounds sweet.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: vivalarevolucin on Fri, 27 November 2015, 16:48:04
I care about the journey. Thanks.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: byker on Fri, 27 November 2015, 16:57:49
Looks great matt3o. Thanks for posting the story behind it! I love the layout, especially layout 5, the true fox :)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Mad_Maxx on Fri, 27 November 2015, 16:59:07
Sick

I wish more people were on the 65% train. Is best layout.

Will definitely be grabbing a couple PCBs

Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: katushkin on Fri, 27 November 2015, 17:03:17
The fox on the PCB is so cute :3
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: byker on Fri, 27 November 2015, 17:05:13
hey matt3o, what about a 1.25x3 + 6.25 + 1.5x2 bottom row, to have no gap?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: 1swt2gs on Fri, 27 November 2015, 18:07:26
A lycan cap from Bro would fit percently with this setup!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Sat, 28 November 2015, 00:44:44
hey matt3o, what about a 1.25x3 + 6.25 + 1.5x2 bottom row, to have no gap?

the PCB should supports that, but we don't have a plate for it.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: gabba-gool on Sat, 28 November 2015, 10:15:03
I'm typically a vanilla guy but I'm really liking that true fox set up. Will be really interested to see that limited edition board.

Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Sat, 28 November 2015, 11:09:49
another thing, would you be interested in an assembly service? If so, how much would you expect it to be?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: stoic-lemon on Sat, 28 November 2015, 11:25:40
Great to read the story behind this. You've obviously put in a ton of work already. The result looks excellent now, and I wish you the best of luck. I hope I have the privilege of owning one.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: pomp_dolla on Sat, 28 November 2015, 11:55:00
This is it. This is what I've been looking for. Everything from the case to the little fox on the pcb. This is perfect.

I'm really excited for this, definitely picking one up. I love your story and honestly the end result, the WhiteFox, is just beautiful.

Would it be possible to get a pcb signed by you? I don't mind paying a little more for it if so  :thumb:
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Sat, 28 November 2015, 11:59:38
Would it be possible to get a pcb signed by you? I don't mind paying a little more for it if so  :thumb:

LOL! this is a first. I'll see what I can do :)

I'm glad you like it!

thanks,
Matt3o
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: LeandreN on Sat, 28 November 2015, 12:00:35
Would it be possible to get a pcb signed by you? I don't mind paying a little more for it if so  :thumb:

LOL! this is a first. I'll see what I can do :)
Would be up for this too!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Sat, 28 November 2015, 12:11:16
thank you guys, I really appreciate the forum-love :)

It makes things a bit complicated in logistics, but if feasible I'll make it happen
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: deductivemonkee on Sat, 28 November 2015, 12:58:40
I should've known it's always a Matt who instagates things, that includes me. You got me into the whole building mechs thing. This new board is so far the coolest!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ccc24 on Sat, 28 November 2015, 13:02:44
Will the back-lighting show through the aluminum case? Or are there acrylic inserts in the case?
And do you mind telling me what the diameter of the switch mounting hole is on the pcb?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Steezus on Sat, 28 November 2015, 13:14:29
Glad to see this being finalized, I'll definitely try and grab a kit. :thumb:
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: KatzenKinder on Sat, 28 November 2015, 13:30:41
Oh myyy~
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: mashby on Sat, 28 November 2015, 14:51:59
As usual matt3o, you completely blow me away with your work. I'm more of a 60% guy, but this design may just convince me otherwise. Holy smokes this is awesome!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Sat, 28 November 2015, 16:35:05
Will the back-lighting show through the aluminum case? Or are there acrylic inserts in the case?
And do you mind telling me what the diameter of the switch mounting hole is on the pcb?

the case is closed, backlight is only on the keys.

I'll check the size of the hole, I can't remember right now (but it's as Cherry specs)

As usual matt3o, you completely blow me away with your work. I'm more of a 60% guy, but this design may just convince me otherwise. Holy smokes this is awesome!

thanks :)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: VikingKeyboards on Mon, 30 November 2015, 15:06:50
Damn. Loving the white and blue look!

A question though, will the limited edition support ISO?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: LeandreN on Mon, 30 November 2015, 15:11:26
Damn. Loving the white and blue look!

A question though, will the limited edition support ISO?

Limited edition WhiteFox, available in only one layout (#5 the true fox)

Unfortunately we don't have an ISO with the gap in the arrow cluster.


Seems like it is only going to be available in layout 5, which does not support ISO because of the gap with the arrow cluster.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: VikingKeyboards on Mon, 30 November 2015, 15:14:52
Seems like it is only going to be available in layout 5, which does not support ISO because of the gap with the arrow cluster.

That sucks. Oh well, can't wait to see how it's gonna end up looking!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ddot on Mon, 30 November 2015, 15:28:06
First off, this is looking awesome Matt3o!

another thing, would you be interested in an assembly service? If so, how much would you expect it to be?

If I recall correctly, when Massdrop did their August 2013 ErgoDox drop, they offered assembly as an option.  I think it was $20 for everything minus the switches and $50 for everything soldered.  Final case assembly, circuit board installation and switch installation was by the user.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Tue, 01 December 2015, 05:19:08
the keyboard is incredibly easy to assemble. The case is an alu tray, just screw the top frame and you are done. Also, all SMD components come pre-soldered so all you need to do is to solder the switches. I don't think (but I could be wrong) MD can sell a fully assembled keyboard because of FCC issues, but I (and maybe others) could help assembling the keyboard for the less tech savvy users.

Regarding the limited edition, it will be likely available in only 1 layout (the true fox) which is an ANSI(-ish) layout.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: VikingKeyboards on Tue, 01 December 2015, 05:39:09
Regarding the limited edition, it will be likely available in only 1 layout (the true fox) which is an ANSI(-ish) layout.

When can we expect to see a picture of it? From your description it sounds sexy as hell.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Tue, 01 December 2015, 07:09:52
we are closing up the last few details, I hope to have everything ready in a couple of weeks.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Tue, 01 December 2015, 07:58:24
Awesome job, as it is just Matt3o's standard, congratulations for the well done design.


If I'd use dedicated arrows I'd take it in a snap. Unfortunately I don't anymore.  :-[
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: potatowire on Tue, 01 December 2015, 21:23:57
I don't think (but I could be wrong) MD can sell a fully assembled keyboard because of FCC issues, but I (and maybe others) could help assembling the keyboard for the less tech savvy users.

I'd be willing to help assemble, if you end up needing additional volunteers.

Like your other fans have said here, I'd also like to have a signed PCB, but only if it isn't too much of a pain for you.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: FLFisherman on Wed, 02 December 2015, 22:42:24
I'm really looking forward to this keyboard. It looks absolutely stunning!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ika on Wed, 02 December 2015, 23:10:15
Hnnggg... I had just sworn to move away from 60% boards and only use 75% and higher... and now you pull this out. I can hear my wallet crying already...
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: jaffers on Wed, 02 December 2015, 23:36:39
Funnily enough, I'm the same as ika. Was moving towards 75%... Another 60 wouldn't hurt much, just my wallet. How long will the GB be open for?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Thu, 03 December 2015, 00:15:14
10/10 would bang

(again and again and again)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Thu, 03 December 2015, 01:11:16
Funnily enough, I'm the same as ika. Was moving towards 75%... Another 60 wouldn't hurt much, just my wallet. How long will the GB be open for?

Hnnggg... I had just sworn to move away from 60% boards and only use 75% and higher... and now you pull this out. I can hear my wallet crying already...

this is not technically a 60%, more like 65%, so you are good :)

GB hopefully in few days. On monday I should get the latest PCB, if everything's fine we can proceed.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 03 December 2015, 01:12:09
Any possibility of allowing a 1u win key on the bottom row on the left so then you can fit a 7u spacebar and get rid of that pesky gap?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: livingspeedbump on Thu, 03 December 2015, 01:14:04
such a clean looking board. very impressed  :thumb:
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Thu, 03 December 2015, 01:14:42
Any possibility of allowing a 1u win key on the bottom row on the left so then you can fit a 7u spacebar and get rid of that pesky gap?

the PCB supports that, but we are not making the plate for that. there are a couple of layouts that don't include the gap anyway.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Thu, 03 December 2015, 01:19:12
Any possibility of allowing a 1u win key on the bottom row on the left so then you can fit a 7u spacebar and get rid of that pesky gap?

the PCB supports that, but we are not making the plate for that. there are a couple of layouts that don't include the gap anyway.

Do you have a reason for the gap? Is it to easily find the arrow cluster?


Edit:
Never mind. Just read the post. The gap makes perfect sense for touch typing.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 03 December 2015, 01:38:42
Man I want that limited edition one now
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Thu, 03 December 2015, 02:20:17
is it me or some posts were deleted during the night....
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: LeandreN on Thu, 03 December 2015, 02:21:27
is it me or some posts were deleted during the night....
Yeah , Geekhack went down and recovered with a lot of posts removed. Among them, the whole IC thread for the Ziptyze cases by Trenzafeeds....
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Thu, 03 December 2015, 02:24:28
okay so posting this again :)

(http://i.imgur.com/3EpU5ky.png)

(special edition, not sure it will be made, but the case will be gold anodized)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: yomammary on Thu, 03 December 2015, 07:01:32
okay so posting this again :)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/3EpU5ky.png)


(special edition, not sure it will be made, but the case will be gold anodized)
Oh my... must... resist...
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 03 December 2015, 07:09:57
Just wondering if the plates support a stepped caps lock or just the regular centered style?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Thu, 03 December 2015, 07:21:00
Just wondering if the plates support a stepped caps lock or just the regular centered style?

again PCB does support that, but the plates won't be made (even though with some work you could cut some aluminum...)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 03 December 2015, 07:28:17
Just wondering if the plates support a stepped caps lock or just the regular centered style?

again PCB does support that, but the plates won't be made (even though with some work you could cut some aluminum...)

Thanks!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Vittra on Thu, 03 December 2015, 09:12:24
is it me or some posts were deleted during the night....
Yeah , Geekhack went down and recovered with a lot of posts removed. Among them, the whole IC thread for the Ziptyze cases by Trenzafeeds....

This still happens on GH? That's unfortunate.

Well, I'll say again - glad to see the progression of your efforts culminate in this board. In for one, special edition or regular true fox, depending on how the wind blows.

:)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Fri, 04 December 2015, 07:45:20
Good news / bad news situation.

Bad news: we won't make the gold edition. Sorry, I tried, but it adds a lot of work and we wouldn't make it by Christmas.

Good news: we will get FCC compliance, meaning that MD will offer a 100% full assembled WhiteFox. As far as I know this would be a first (but I might be wrong). Unfortunately I don't think it will be CE certified too. Also we will probably have a proper product box, no bubble wrap in generic box but a custom made packaging to fit all the components.

More good news: group buy starts next week! Hold tight!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: FLFisherman on Fri, 04 December 2015, 08:03:12
Good news / bad news situation.

Bad news: we won't make the gold edition. Sorry, I tried, but it adds a lot of work and we wouldn't make it by Christmas.

Good news: we will get FCC compliance, meaning that MD will offer a 100% full assembled WhiteFox. As far as I know this would be a first (but I might be wrong). Unfortunately I don't think it will be CE certified too. Also we will probably have a proper product box, no bubble wrap in generic box but a custom made packaging to fit all the components.

More good news: group buy starts next week! Hold tight!

(https://media.giphy.com/media/OCu7zWojqFA1W/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Fri, 04 December 2015, 08:06:14
Good news / bad news situation.

Bad news: we won't make the gold edition. Sorry, I tried, but it adds a lot of work and we wouldn't make it by Christmas.

Good news: we will get FCC compliance, meaning that MD will offer a 100% full assembled WhiteFox. As far as I know this would be a first (but I might be wrong). Unfortunately I don't think it will be CE certified too. Also we will probably have a proper product box, no bubble wrap in generic box but a custom made packaging to fit all the components.

More good news: group buy starts next week! Hold tight!

Dank.

Do you know if Gateron switches will be an option?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: swimmingbird on Fri, 04 December 2015, 08:07:35
Good news / bad news situation.

Bad news: we won't make the gold edition. Sorry, I tried, but it adds a lot of work and we wouldn't make it by Christmas.

Good news: we will get FCC compliance, meaning that MD will offer a 100% full assembled WhiteFox. As far as I know this would be a first (but I might be wrong). Unfortunately I don't think it will be CE certified too. Also we will probably have a proper product box, no bubble wrap in generic box but a custom made packaging to fit all the components.

More good news: group buy starts next week! Hold tight!

Oh man WhiteFox and GMK SNES on Massdrop - my wallet is gonna get a hurting right before Christmas
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Fri, 04 December 2015, 08:21:22
Good news / bad news situation.

Bad news: we won't make the gold edition. Sorry, I tried, but it adds a lot of work and we wouldn't make it by Christmas.

Good news: we will get FCC compliance, meaning that MD will offer a 100% full assembled WhiteFox. As far as I know this would be a first (but I might be wrong). Unfortunately I don't think it will be CE certified too. Also we will probably have a proper product box, no bubble wrap in generic box but a custom made packaging to fit all the components.

More good news: group buy starts next week! Hold tight!

Oh man WhiteFox and GMK SNES on Massdrop - my wallet is gonna get a hurting right before Christmas


Where is the SNES set?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: raymogi on Fri, 04 December 2015, 08:25:24
Good thing the GB comes quite early in the month. Lots of monies to be spent.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: FLFisherman on Fri, 04 December 2015, 08:47:39
Good news / bad news situation.

Bad news: we won't make the gold edition. Sorry, I tried, but it adds a lot of work and we wouldn't make it by Christmas.

Good news: we will get FCC compliance, meaning that MD will offer a 100% full assembled WhiteFox. As far as I know this would be a first (but I might be wrong). Unfortunately I don't think it will be CE certified too. Also we will probably have a proper product box, no bubble wrap in generic box but a custom made packaging to fit all the components.

More good news: group buy starts next week! Hold tight!

Oh man WhiteFox and GMK SNES on Massdrop - my wallet is gonna get a hurting right before Christmas

Your wallet will hurt, but your fingers will be happy, and that's all Christmas is about.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: harlw on Fri, 04 December 2015, 08:48:08
oh lawdy
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: cswanic on Fri, 04 December 2015, 09:00:30
Good gawd, what the hell did my wallet ever do to deserve this?  I've been lurking on the white fox project for the past 2 years so of course the white fox layout is the only way for me to go.  Hoping there is some heft and thickness to the case like my poker keyboard.  I purchased the acrylic and the aluminum cases for my 60% boards and honestly the case from my poker just stands out over the others.  The PBT keys in this one sound like the same keys from the KC60 release on MD (not a fan). 

Matt3o, in the interest of prepping this kick a$$ board for Granite Round 4 next year, would you please make an option for no keys when the drop is set?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Fri, 04 December 2015, 09:04:52
The PBT keys in this one sound like the same keys from the KC60 release on MD (not a fan).

keycaps come from a brand new facility. What I tested so far is really nice.

Matt3o, in the interest of prepping this kick a$$ board for Granite Round 4 next year, would you please make an option for no keys when the drop is set?

yeah, keycaps are optional! :)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: azhdar on Fri, 04 December 2015, 09:09:31
Is it really going through MD ?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Fri, 04 December 2015, 09:51:49
Is it really going through MD ?

yep.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Fri, 04 December 2015, 10:00:43
Is it really going through MD ?

yep.

 :thumb:
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Jumie on Fri, 04 December 2015, 10:10:01
ow my gawd,, my wallet gonna hurt so much...
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Fri, 04 December 2015, 10:12:20
ow my gawd,, my wallet gonna hurt so much...

Why do you even carry a wallet anymore? Just tape your credit card to the bottom of your monitor.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: swill on Fri, 04 December 2015, 10:26:36
been watching this project for quite a while.  Very interesting layout...
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ddot on Fri, 04 December 2015, 11:44:37
Any updates on the pinging or lack thereof?  (I think you mentioned you had a recording or something to post, but it looks like it got lost in the rollback).

I've also casually followed some of the Infinity development on Massdrop.  For one, I know they were having issues with the strength of the USB connector on the Infinity ErgoDox.  Have you guys been able to gain any insights from their problems so they don't happen with the WhiteFox?

How's the online configurator working?  Massdrop's for the original  Ergodox never really seemed to made it out of (an early) beta.  If you wanted more functionality than that, you needed to wrap your head around TMK or Ben's firmware or something and figure out how to compile it on your own.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: livingspeedbump on Fri, 04 December 2015, 11:44:57
The Winkeyless layout is definitely my favorite part of this set  :eek:
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Fri, 04 December 2015, 13:21:02
Any updates on the pinging or lack thereof?  (I think you mentioned you had a recording or something to post, but it looks like it got lost in the rollback).

I've also casually followed some of the Infinity development on Massdrop.  For one, I know they were having issues with the strength of the USB connector on the Infinity ErgoDox.  Have you guys been able to gain any insights from their problems so they don't happen with the WhiteFox?

How's the online configurator working?  Massdrop's for the original  Ergodox never really seemed to made it out of (an early) beta.  If you wanted more functionality than that, you needed to wrap your head around TMK or Ben's firmware or something and figure out how to compile it on your own.

audio quality is not the best and the mic was really too close, but you can get an idea. Switches are MX Blue and the keyboard is still a prototype (not the final product) but there's no "ping". Sound test (http://cubiq.org/dropbox/whitefox.mp3).

the whitefox has a micro-usb connector with pass-through pins. that is the best you can get in terms of small usb ports.

Configuration works pretty well with the configurator, if you need more options just ask. Consider that the TMK firmware will also be ported to the whitefox.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: FLFisherman on Fri, 04 December 2015, 13:24:36
Any updates on the pinging or lack thereof?  (I think you mentioned you had a recording or something to post, but it looks like it got lost in the rollback).

I've also casually followed some of the Infinity development on Massdrop.  For one, I know they were having issues with the strength of the USB connector on the Infinity ErgoDox.  Have you guys been able to gain any insights from their problems so they don't happen with the WhiteFox?

How's the online configurator working?  Massdrop's for the original  Ergodox never really seemed to made it out of (an early) beta.  If you wanted more functionality than that, you needed to wrap your head around TMK or Ben's firmware or something and figure out how to compile it on your own.

audio quality is not the best and the mic was really too close, but you can get an idea. Switches are MX Blue and the keyboard is still a prototype (not the final product) but there's no "ping". Sound test (http://cubiq.org/dropbox/whitefox.mp3).

the whitefox has a micro-usb connector with pass-through pins. that is the best you can get in terms of small usb ports.

Configuration works pretty well with the configurator, if you need more options just ask. Consider that the TMK firmware will also be ported to the whitefox.

Those clicks are music to my ears. I am constantly refreshing this thread at working, waiting for the group buy announcement to go live, even though I know it won't be until next week.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ddot on Fri, 04 December 2015, 15:18:44
How's the online configurator working?  Massdrop's for the original  Ergodox never really seemed to made it out of (an early) beta.  If you wanted more functionality than that, you needed to wrap your head around TMK or Ben's firmware or something and figure out how to compile it on your own.

Configuration works pretty well with the configurator, if you need more options just ask. Consider that the TMK firmware will also be ported to the whitefox.

I took a quick look at the configurator over at input.club.  Not sure if this'll end up being the official one or not.  A couple things come to mind that weren't overly clear if they're implemented.  Simple macros (ie hold down a modifier or something, type a series of keys, release modifier) and an easy way to implement SpaceFN (ie function change on down keystroke, then conditional space on up keystroke if nothing else got pressed after the down keystroke).

I was also looking at the keycap renders over on deskthority.  Is the top right key on the number pad kit really an "Any Key" or is that just a place holder?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ika on Fri, 04 December 2015, 15:20:50
Wait, is this going to come as a kit or only as a complete board? I would rather put it together myself.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Fri, 04 December 2015, 15:22:15
Wait, is this going to come as a kit or only as a complete board? I would rather put it together myself.

Pretty sure you can order just the kit, a la the Infinity boards.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Fri, 04 December 2015, 16:35:15
it's a kit, but you can get it assembled if you want (for a price :P).

PS: the key in the numpad reads "ANY KEY" :P
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: p1114501510 on Fri, 04 December 2015, 19:04:34
oh man, great job. Looking forward to the group buy, but can I change the position of caps and ctrl?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: swimmingbird on Fri, 04 December 2015, 21:43:12
The Winkeyless layout is definitely my favorite part of this set  :eek:

If only it supported HHKB top row
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Fri, 04 December 2015, 21:58:10
The Winkeyless layout is definitely my favorite part of this set  :eek:

If only it supported HHKB top row

I think that, as a new keyboard, the Fox is trying a new layout inspired by others.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: swimmingbird on Fri, 04 December 2015, 21:59:15
The Winkeyless layout is definitely my favorite part of this set  :eek:

If only it supported HHKB top row

I think that, as a new keyboard, the Fox is trying a new layout inspired by others.

?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Fri, 04 December 2015, 22:01:14
The Winkeyless layout is definitely my favorite part of this set  :eek:

If only it supported HHKB top row

I think that, as a new keyboard, the Fox is trying a new layout inspired by others.

?

Sorry, I'm actually really tired and too lazy to write.
Meant to add that its main purpose is to try a new layout, so supporting other layouts isn't its main concern but to have people try a new one. Hence the creation of supporting caps.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 04 December 2015, 22:20:51
Holy crap, Matt3o. :eek: This is amazing.

Your initial prototyping and building a couple years ago is one of the things that inspired me to dig deeper into this hobby and build my own things.  Thank you for detailing the history of this board, it brought back a lot of great memories.  :)  And it's so great to see your dream finally realized.

I'm totally in for the True Fox layout.  :thumb: ;D  I like 65% boards, I like HHKB backspace, and I love the gap between the arrow keys.  Great design, of course.


My only gripe is the lack of stepped caps lock support.  :( 
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Fri, 04 December 2015, 22:24:13
Holy crap, Matt3o. :eek: This is amazing.

Your initial prototyping and building a couple years ago is one of the things that inspired me to dig deeper into this hobby and build my own things.  Thank you for detailing the history of this board, it brought back a lot of great memories.  :)  And it's so great to see your dream finally realized.

I'm totally in for the True Fox layout.  :thumb: ;D  I like 65% boards, I like HHKB backspace, and I love the gap between the arrow keys.  Great design, of course.


My only gripe is the lack of stepped caps lock support.  :(

There is support in the PCB, just not with the flush plate.
But yeah, I wish the full shebang had the stepped cap. This would make True Fox perfect.

Still getting True Fox layout 'cause that's what this board was made for!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 04 December 2015, 22:28:11
Holy crap, Matt3o. :eek: This is amazing.

Your initial prototyping and building a couple years ago is one of the things that inspired me to dig deeper into this hobby and build my own things.  Thank you for detailing the history of this board, it brought back a lot of great memories.  :)  And it's so great to see your dream finally realized.

I'm totally in for the True Fox layout.  :thumb: ;D  I like 65% boards, I like HHKB backspace, and I love the gap between the arrow keys.  Great design, of course.


My only gripe is the lack of stepped caps lock support.  :(

There is support in the PCB, just not with the flush plate.
But yeah, I wish the full shebang had the stepped cap. This would make True Fox perfect.

Still getting True Fox layout 'cause that's what this board was made for!

Yeah, but I want the plate!  :P


Oh!  Another comment for Matt3o: If there is any way to get hex socket screws (Allen Wrench screws - I don't know the technical name :) ) instead of flat-head screws that would be great.  Flat-head and phillips don't look nearly as clean and polished as hex screws IMO.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Sat, 05 December 2015, 01:20:22
The step is to prevent accidental key press of the mean caps lock, BUT you should use CTRL or FN in that position, so there's no need of a stepped key. Adding an option for stepped caps lock for each plate would be too expensive, we preferred to give more layout choices instead. I hope we made the right decision...


@HoffmanMyster where did you see flat or phillips screws?! :D They are all torx screws
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Sat, 05 December 2015, 06:53:58
But the off centered switch for the step caps lock allows the use of authentic OG Cherry sets and it does look very cool.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Sat, 05 December 2015, 07:36:33
But the off centered switch for the step caps lock allows the use of authentic OG Cherry sets and it does look very cool.

I agree, but like I said, we couldn't make both versions for all layouts.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: joey on Sat, 05 December 2015, 07:38:30
Why can't one plate support both versions?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Sat, 05 December 2015, 07:46:25
Why can't one plate support both versions?

I'm not very much fond of open frame keyboards with large holes to support multiple layouts.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sat, 05 December 2015, 08:43:09
The step is to prevent accidental key press of the mean caps lock, BUT you should use CTRL or FN in that position, so there's no need of a stepped key. Adding an option for stepped caps lock for each plate would be too expensive, we preferred to give more layout choices instead. I hope we made the right decision...

Good point.  I do still like the stepped key, even if it's Ctrl, but you're right that it is not critical at that point.

@HoffmanMyster where did you see flat or phillips screws?! :D They are all torx screws

Whoops!  I saw this picture and assumed the final product would have the same screws.  But looking at the final product shot I see that that is not the case.  Thank you for clarifying!  :D

(http://i.imgur.com/k9fbdcw.jpg)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Sat, 05 December 2015, 09:03:40
the screws are really small, almost cellphone size, we could find only torx head at that size (no hex), but they are definitely better than flat or phillips.

Yeah the prototypes had flat heads, you are right, but it was just to check that everything was working.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Sat, 05 December 2015, 14:02:14
Any possibility of allowing a 1u win key on the bottom row on the left so then you can fit a 7u spacebar and get rid of that pesky gap?


I think the GAP is an intended feature.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: swill on Sat, 05 December 2015, 19:31:22
Any possibility of allowing a 1u win key on the bottom row on the left so then you can fit a 7u spacebar and get rid of that pesky gap?


I think the GAP is an intended feature.
Ya, the gap is going to be REALLY useful.   My biggest problem with the 75% layout was not being able to find the arrow keys 100% of the time without having to look cause all the keys down there felt the same.

I used an fc660c for a long time and really enjoyed the layout. One of my biggest complaint with that board was the lack of a dedicated `~ key (being a developer, I use that key often). This board solves that as well, so that is nice.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: trizkut on Sat, 05 December 2015, 22:45:30
Good news / bad news situation.

Bad news: we won't make the gold edition. Sorry, I tried, but it adds a lot of work and we wouldn't make it by Christmas.

Good news: we will get FCC compliance, meaning that MD will offer a 100% full assembled WhiteFox. As far as I know this would be a first (but I might be wrong). Unfortunately I don't think it will be CE certified too. Also we will probably have a proper product box, no bubble wrap in generic box but a custom made packaging to fit all the components.

More good news: group buy starts next week! Hold tight!

That's unfortunate.  I was really looking forward to the gold edition!  But still in  :thumb:
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: cswanic on Sat, 05 December 2015, 23:07:09
This keyboard is approved by the commission to elect the gap.  Every man appreciates the gap :thumb: :)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ileben on Sun, 06 December 2015, 01:39:37
I would go with The True Fox, but that backspace might be a problem for replacement caps, no? Unless you reuse a \| key there, but that's not really nice.
My next choice is Aria.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Sun, 06 December 2015, 01:44:22
I would go with The True Fox, but that backspace might be a problem for replacement caps, no? Unless you reuse a \| key there, but that's not really nice.
My next choice is Aria.

well, it's not that uncommon, many (serious) sets have the 1.5 backspace. Granite and Round 5 to name a couple. But yea Aria would be less problematic (you still need the smaller right shift).
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: swimmingbird on Sun, 06 December 2015, 03:25:57

Any possibility of allowing a 1u win key on the bottom row on the left so then you can fit a 7u spacebar and get rid of that pesky gap?


I think the GAP is an intended feature.
Ya, the gap is going to be REALLY useful.   My biggest problem with the 75% layout was not being able to find the arrow keys 100% of the time without having to look cause all the keys down there felt the same.

I used an fc660c for a long time and really enjoyed the layout. One of my biggest complaint with that board was the lack of a dedicated `~ key (being a developer, I use that key often). This board solves that as well, so that is nice.

Ahh okay I didn't realise the intentionality as I've never used a keyboard with the gap before

Sounds really clever! True fox format it is for both boards!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: livingspeedbump on Sun, 06 December 2015, 07:53:50
The step is to prevent accidental key press of the mean caps lock, BUT you should use CTRL or FN in that position, so there's no need of a stepped key. Adding an option for stepped caps lock for each plate would be too expensive, we preferred to give more layout choices instead. I hope we made the right decision...


@HoffmanMyster where did you see flat or phillips screws?! :D They are all torx screws

1. I love that you flatout say you should have CTRL or FN where Caps Lock is. Thank you  :thumb:

2. Supporting a step key would still be nice in the future. Some sets even include a step CTRL key, obviously for aesthetic reasons. But I think that is the main reason people like it anyways at this point. Definitely something I'd like to see in the future as well, but definitely not something that will make me hesitate about buying this at all either! You can "improve" something forever, but even as it is this is an extremely exciting keyboard.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Sun, 06 December 2015, 09:21:45
worry not, if the first group buy is successful we will have a second batch for sure (goooold!)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: livingspeedbump on Sun, 06 December 2015, 09:24:07
worry not, if the first group buy is successful we will have a second batch for sure (goooold!)

IF the buy is successful? hahaha.

Absolutely no question that it will be.  :thumb:
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Sun, 06 December 2015, 10:44:37

Any possibility of allowing a 1u win key on the bottom row on the left so then you can fit a 7u spacebar and get rid of that pesky gap?


I think the GAP is an intended feature.
Ya, the gap is going to be REALLY useful.   My biggest problem with the 75% layout was not being able to find the arrow keys 100% of the time without having to look cause all the keys down there felt the same.

I used an fc660c for a long time and really enjoyed the layout. One of my biggest complaint with that board was the lack of a dedicated `~ key (being a developer, I use that key often). This board solves that as well, so that is nice.

Ahh okay I didn't realise the intentionality as I've never used a keyboard with the gap before

Sounds really clever! True fox format it is for both boards!


I do not need the gap either, I am actually using my arrows with space FN on ijkl; but for a dedicated arrow cluster it makes sense to separate it entirely from the rest of the keys; because, you have to "search for it" instead of just touch typing.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Tue, 08 December 2015, 06:28:04
in few hours we will have the GB up and running. In the meantime... Whitefox on SA Retro :)

(http://i.imgur.com/j6YJClC.jpg)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: trenzafeeds on Tue, 08 December 2015, 06:35:44
Wow, a groupbuy for the whitefox, it's amazing to see the day that this finally all coming together and being made available.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: azhdar on Tue, 08 December 2015, 06:40:34
wish this wasn't happening through MassDrop, good luck with the GB Matt3o.
65% trully is the best layout.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ika on Tue, 08 December 2015, 06:42:50
Hmm... it's probably too late for a suggestion like this to go out with the GB, but - any chance someone could product a companion sticker or thin "frame" that goes over the top and covers the screw holes? I really like having a clean top section without exposed screws. A thin plastic rectangular frame would work I think, or even just a vinyl sticker.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: xondat on Tue, 08 December 2015, 07:02:05
I get paid in 10 days but I've seen like 6 different boards that I'd invest in.. **** :eek:
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: trenzafeeds on Tue, 08 December 2015, 08:22:10
wish this wasn't happening through MassDrop, good luck with the GB Matt3o.
65% trully is the best layout.

Oh **** it is... that makes me sad as well. I probably don't have the money for it anyway
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: swill on Tue, 08 December 2015, 08:39:43
wish this wasn't happening through MassDrop, good luck with the GB Matt3o.
65% trully is the best layout.

I think there will probably be a large number of people who will proxy this through someone in the US.  Like you, we get killed with customs and duty when going through 'official' vendors.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: qwack on Tue, 08 December 2015, 09:02:52
Hmm... it's probably too late for a suggestion like this to go out with the GB, but - any chance someone could product a companion sticker or thin "frame" that goes over the top and covers the screw holes? I really like having a clean top section without exposed screws. A thin plastic rectangular frame would work I think, or even just a vinyl sticker.

Since the project is open source, the CAD files will be released so you'll be able to have a thin plastic/vinyl sheet cut from any lasercutting service.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Tue, 08 December 2015, 09:12:34
a carbon fiber top cover would be a nice idea :)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: cswanic on Tue, 08 December 2015, 09:23:55
a carbon fiber top cover would be a nice idea :)

Can you make that happen in the next 30 minutes before the drop starts? :-)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Tue, 08 December 2015, 09:28:45
lol, don't think so :D
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Jumie on Tue, 08 December 2015, 18:20:08
few hours has gone by.. wheres my white fox? xD
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Tue, 08 December 2015, 18:23:23
few hours has gone by.. wheres my white fox? xD

Last time Matt3o said a few hours it turned into a couple of days. ;)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Rafa_n on Tue, 08 December 2015, 18:28:35
few hours has gone by.. wheres my white fox? xD

Last time Matt3o said a few hours it turned into a couple of days. ;)

does Matt3o run on valve time?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: bubbedi on Tue, 08 December 2015, 18:35:37
Never has MassDrop been refreshed that often... :)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: sircheddar on Tue, 08 December 2015, 23:23:57
Hi! My first post on GH hype hype!

Can someone help me decide between the aria and the true?

The true has the potential of having a limited edition, but I am more of a white keyboard kind of person as it is.

The other thing is that my daily driver right now is a leopold fc660m and I am used to having larger sized, farther spaced back spaces, and am not sure what it will be like to have it closer. Other then that, I am thinking that I will be able to arrange the right column so that the delete goes into the corner on the right, and stuff like that, without too much issue?

edit: spent a little bit more time thinking about it. I like that the back space is closer, it kind of makes sense. I don't use that backslash whatever key... ever... so maybe having the backspace closer would make it a bit more ergo in a way?

Thanks
kevin "SirCheddar"
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Wed, 09 December 2015, 03:32:32
ooookay. sorry for keeping you waiting guys, but that doesn't depend on me :)

The group buy has become incredibly complex and we are trying to avoid manufacturing and logistics errors. The GB is ready on MassDrop (but dormant) and soon a newsletter will be sent out with the official announcement. The group buy will officially start this Friday.

.

The true has the potential of having a limited edition, but I am more of a white keyboard kind of person as it is.

the gold edition won't be released at this time. We will probably do it later this year (but don't hold your breath).

I am thinking that I will be able to arrange the right column so that the delete goes into the corner on the right, and stuff like that, without too much issue?

the key layout is completely up to you, you can customize any way you like it.

edit: spent a little bit more time thinking about it. I like that the back space is closer, it kind of makes sense. I don't use that backslash whatever key... ever... so maybe having the backspace closer would make it a bit more ergo in a way?

to me, that is the only right place for the backspace, but it's down to personal preference at the end.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: trenzafeeds on Wed, 09 December 2015, 04:41:39
The true has the potential of having a limited edition, but I am more of a white keyboard kind of person as it is.

the gold edition won't be released at this time. We will probably do it later this year (but don't hold your breath).

Can you tell us if this will be on MD or separately?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Wed, 09 December 2015, 04:45:38
The true has the potential of having a limited edition, but I am more of a white keyboard kind of person as it is.

the gold edition won't be released at this time. We will probably do it later this year (but don't hold your breath).

Can you tell us if this will be on MD or separately?

it's really to early to say...
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Wed, 09 December 2015, 05:08:00
okay quick update.

As I said the group buy will star this Friday on MassDrop. I don't know if I'll be able to grab some samples for myself and possibly sell them to MassDrop haters and I will actually know only when the drop is over, so don't rely on that.

We had to reduce the number of options to lower logistics hiccups. The options will be:
- a raw kit that includes only the plate, pcb, case, screws, feet and stabs
- to that you can add keycaps, switches and LEDs (all together)
- on top of that you can add full assembly service

I'm really excited about how this is coming out, some things I would have definitely done differently, but like in every relationship you have to compromise a little.

In this very moment I'm typing on a 100% working WhiteFox and it's amazing. I'm almost to tears, it took a year but it was totally worth it!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: f1xedgear on Wed, 09 December 2015, 06:45:19
okay quick update.

As I said the group buy will star this Friday on MassDrop. I don't know if I'll be able to grab some samples for myself and possibly sell them to MassDrop haters and I will actually know only when the drop is over, so don't rely on that.

We had to reduce the number of options to lower logistics hiccups. The options will be:
- a raw kit that includes only the plate, pcb, case, screws, feet and stabs
- to that you can add keycaps, switches and LEDs (all together)
- on top of that you can add full assembly service

I'm really excited about how this is coming out, some things I would have definitely done differently, but like in every relationship you have to compromise a little.

In this very moment I'm typing on a 100% working WhiteFox and it's amazing. I'm almost to tears, it took a year but it was totally worth it!
Can you share pricing details yet?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Wed, 09 December 2015, 06:56:39
actually, let me ask you, how much would you expect from a high quality aluminum keyboard like this?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 09 December 2015, 06:58:02
okay quick update.

As I said the group buy will star this Friday on MassDrop. I don't know if I'll be able to grab some samples for myself and possibly sell them to MassDrop haters and I will actually know only when the drop is over, so don't rely on that.

We had to reduce the number of options to lower logistics hiccups. The options will be:
- a raw kit that includes only the plate, pcb, case, screws, feet and stabs
- to that you can add keycaps, switches and LEDs (all together)
- on top of that you can add full assembly service

I'm really excited about how this is coming out, some things I would have definitely done differently, but like in every relationship you have to compromise a little.

In this very moment I'm typing on a 100% working WhiteFox and it's amazing. I'm almost to tears, it took a year but it was totally worth it!

I'm assuming that all the plate options will still be run?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Wed, 09 December 2015, 07:00:17
okay quick update.

As I said the group buy will star this Friday on MassDrop. I don't know if I'll be able to grab some samples for myself and possibly sell them to MassDrop haters and I will actually know only when the drop is over, so don't rely on that.

We had to reduce the number of options to lower logistics hiccups. The options will be:
- a raw kit that includes only the plate, pcb, case, screws, feet and stabs
- to that you can add keycaps, switches and LEDs (all together)
- on top of that you can add full assembly service

I'm really excited about how this is coming out, some things I would have definitely done differently, but like in every relationship you have to compromise a little.

In this very moment I'm typing on a 100% working WhiteFox and it's amazing. I'm almost to tears, it took a year but it was totally worth it!

I'm assuming that all the plate options will still be run?

yes, all plates are a go.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 09 December 2015, 07:03:27
okay quick update.

As I said the group buy will star this Friday on MassDrop. I don't know if I'll be able to grab some samples for myself and possibly sell them to MassDrop haters and I will actually know only when the drop is over, so don't rely on that.

We had to reduce the number of options to lower logistics hiccups. The options will be:
- a raw kit that includes only the plate, pcb, case, screws, feet and stabs
- to that you can add keycaps, switches and LEDs (all together)
- on top of that you can add full assembly service

I'm really excited about how this is coming out, some things I would have definitely done differently, but like in every relationship you have to compromise a little.

In this very moment I'm typing on a 100% working WhiteFox and it's amazing. I'm almost to tears, it took a year but it was totally worth it!

I'm assuming that all the plate options will still be run?

yes, all plates are a go.

sweet can't wait to see it go live

congrats on bringing this board to life matt3o
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: f1xedgear on Wed, 09 December 2015, 07:05:30
actually, let me ask you, how much would you expect from a high quality aluminum keyboard like this?

Given what I just paid for my WKL b.face build, somewhere around $250-$300?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Wed, 09 December 2015, 07:08:27
actually, let me ask you, how much would you expect from a high quality aluminum keyboard like this?

Given what I just paid for my WKL b.face build, somewhere around $250-$300?

a lot depends on if you need assembly or not... but hopefully we can beat that :) Also of course depends on how many WF we sell
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: sircheddar on Wed, 09 December 2015, 07:30:38
Hi Matteo, still learning how to reply to what you specifically responded to, but i think I have come to a bit of a conclusion.

So, as far as the aria is concerned, if i end up preferring to have the back space 1 spot closer and lower, i could always remap it to that key and enjoy. if not, i could keep it in its original position. also, i think with this, keycap sets could be easier to find in the future? maybe? I think this probably makes the aria a better option for me. I doubt that i will need a dedicated tilde key and the backslash one anyways.

next, I wanted to ask how the timeline is expected to look? i am sure it will be months before it is complete, but will it be closer to lets say 6 months till the keyboard is produced, or closer to a year? more? i understand if you cant comment!

oh, another thing, do you know the overall dimensions of this keyboard? I am trying to picture its size compared to my leopold, which is like 12.5 inches by maybe 4.1 inches

lastly, will there be an option to get some of it soldered, and some of it unsoldered (like have everything but the switches soldered?)

Thanks,
Kevin "SirCheddar"


Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: qwack on Wed, 09 December 2015, 07:50:55
actually, let me ask you, how much would you expect from a high quality aluminum keyboard like this?

Obviously it depends on the number of cases that are manufactured, but given the design of the case, I'd expect the kit to be priced around 160, 180 tops (unassembled, with keycaps but no switches).

Which does not mean that I consider it to be a cheap keyboard on the contrary it looks like a lot of thought went into its design, so I assume that you made the right design choices to make it more affordable than the average custom keyboard with CNC case (no tight radius inside corners, etc.).
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: qwack on Wed, 09 December 2015, 08:04:25
next, I wanted to ask how the timeline is expected to look? i am sure it will be months before it is complete, but will it be closer to lets say 6 months till the keyboard is produced, or closer to a year? more? i understand if you cant comment!

lastly, will there be an option to get some of it soldered, and some of it unsoldered (like have everything but the switches soldered?)

Regarding the timeline, this was posted in the deskthority thread (http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/the-long-journey-of-the-whitefox-t12134-60.html#p270985) :

Quote
The kit should ship shortly after the end of the GB (that will last one week)

Hence the limited number of options I guess, but I'd gladly take that over a nevending rollercoaster la GH60.

If I am not mistaken, the whole PCB is already soldered (micro USB, controllers, diodes), only the switches need to be soldered and for those who cannot there will be an option to have it fully assembled.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Wed, 09 December 2015, 08:05:07
So, as far as the aria is concerned, if i end up preferring to have the back space 1 spot closer and lower, i could always remap it to that key and enjoy. if not, i could keep it in its original position. also, i think with this, keycap sets could be easier to find in the future? maybe? I think this probably makes the aria a better option for me. I doubt that i will need a dedicated tilde key and the backslash one anyways.

Aria is definitely easier to handle and find keycaps for. If you are torn, Aria is a safer bet. You can still remap the backspace to the \| key if you want (but then you are left with a 2u key that does basically nothing).

next, I wanted to ask how the timeline is expected to look? i am sure it will be months before it is complete, but will it be closer to lets say 6 months till the keyboard is produced, or closer to a year? more? i understand if you cant comment!

The group buy will last one week, production will be pretty fast actually, everything is pretty much set, so worst case scenario it should be a couple of months.

lastly, will there be an option to get some of it soldered, and some of it unsoldered (like have everything but the switches soldered?)

yes, the kit comes with everything soldered apart from switches. If you want it assembled, you get the full keyboard ready to rock.

Obviously it depends on the number of cases that are manufactured, but given the design of the case, I'd expect the kit to be priced around 160€, 180€ tops (unassembled, with keycaps but no switches).

I honestly don't have the final figures yet, we are still checking the last few things. Your estimate seems reasonable, though. Hopefully we can do a tad better than that, but again depends on quantity.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: sircheddar on Wed, 09 December 2015, 08:53:16
Another silly question for you matteo, im sorry, i am new to group buys so I am still wondering a ton. Is there going to be a rush to sign up for this? Will it be at risk of selling out, and should it be something that I hurry to sign up for? or are the parts produced after the signups have closed? im sorry if this is just a silly question

Thanks,
Kevin "SirCheddar"
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Wed, 09 December 2015, 09:24:21
Matt3o,

Can you autograph mine?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: cswanic on Wed, 09 December 2015, 09:38:55
Matt3o,

Can you autograph mine?

Uhh, you do realize Matt3o is in Italy, Massdrop is in Jersey, and China is uhm somewhere in the middle? :confused: :p
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Wed, 09 December 2015, 09:43:36
Matt3o,

Can you autograph mine?

Uhh, you do realize Matt3o is in Italy, Massdrop is in Jersey, and China is uhm somewhere in the middle? :confused: :p

Absolutely. And?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: swill on Wed, 09 December 2015, 10:33:42
Matt3o,

Can you autograph mine?

Uhh, you do realize Matt3o is in Italy, Massdrop is in Jersey, and China is uhm somewhere in the middle? :confused: :p

Absolutely. And?

Once you get your board, you can ship it to Matt3o and have him sign it and then pay for him to ship it back to you.  That would work...  :P
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: FLFisherman on Wed, 09 December 2015, 10:36:06
Matt3o,

Can you autograph mine?

Uhh, you do realize Matt3o is in Italy, Massdrop is in Jersey, and China is uhm somewhere in the middle? :confused: :p

Absolutely. And?

Once you get your board, you can ship it to Matt3o and have him sign it and then pay for him to ship it back to you.  That would work...  :P

I mean you guys can just ask him to sign a letter for you or something and tape it underneath the housing.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Wed, 09 December 2015, 10:38:23
Matt3o,

Can you autograph mine?

Uhh, you do realize Matt3o is in Italy, Massdrop is in Jersey, and China is uhm somewhere in the middle? :confused: :p

Absolutely. And?

Once you get your board, you can ship it to Matt3o and have him sign it and then pay for him to ship it back to you.  That would work...  :P

The box is ready.

Matt3o,

Can you autograph mine?

Uhh, you do realize Matt3o is in Italy, Massdrop is in Jersey, and China is uhm somewhere in the middle? :confused: :p

Absolutely. And?

Once you get your board, you can ship it to Matt3o and have him sign it and then pay for him to ship it back to you.  That would work...  :P

I mean you guys can just ask him to sign a letter for you or something and tape it underneath the housing.

But will it add weight to the board?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 09 December 2015, 11:02:20
****....like others I too have been following your development for a while. I was going to make my own 65% board but....UGH. That winkeyless layout would be my ideal layout like livingspeedbump said. Great job!

Edit: I was going to say my only complaint is no Alps compatibility but E3E made his PCB work so I could too...
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: E3E on Wed, 09 December 2015, 11:41:35
****....like others I too have been following your development for a while. I was going to make my own 65% board but....UGH. That winkeyless layout would be my ideal layout like livingspeedbump said. Great job!

Edit: I was going to say my only complaint is no Alps compatibility but E3E made his PCB work so I could too...

Push the boundaries and spread the Alps love!  :thumb: As long as you have the patience for it, it's definitely possible to modify an MX PCB for Alps compatibility. Maybe Matt3o will add it for a later revision. :)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Wed, 09 December 2015, 12:01:20
Another silly question for you matteo, im sorry, i am new to group buys so I am still wondering a ton. Is there going to be a rush to sign up for this? Will it be at risk of selling out, and should it be something that I hurry to sign up for? or are the parts produced after the signups have closed? im sorry if this is just a silly question

there's indeed a limit to the number we can produce, but I don't think we will reach it. If you see the numbers go over 450 (very unlikely) then start worrying and grab your copy right away :)

Can you autograph mine?

we are talking about the feasibility of this thing with MD, it won't be easy, though. The best thing is probably if I sign a card that will be bundled inside the box.

PS: Alps compatibility is something we discussed at some point, but it would add too much complexity to an already complex projrct, in the future... who knows...
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: mashby on Wed, 09 December 2015, 12:04:59
Very excited Matt3o for this group buy and love The Real Fox layout.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Wed, 09 December 2015, 12:06:14
Can you autograph mine?

we are talking about the feasibility of this thing with MD, it won't be easy, though. The best thing is probably if I sign a card that will be bundled inside the box.

I honestly was joshing, but that would be awesome!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: qwack on Wed, 09 December 2015, 12:12:16
PS: Alps compatibility is something we discussed at some point, but it would add too much complexity to an already complex projrct, in the future... who knows...

Since the board has been designed with the help of Input Club it should be feasible, since they have alrerady done it for their Infinity pcb. Granted, the Whitefox pcb is more complex (LEDs) but slightly larger pads may not be that big of a hurdle. I would gladly give it a try once the files are released if I knew how to use KiCad.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: cswanic on Wed, 09 December 2015, 12:15:00
Push the boundaries and spread the Alps love!  :thumb: As long as you have the patience for it, it's definitely possible to modify an MX PCB for Alps compatibility. Maybe Matt3o will add it for a later revision. :)

Why stop at Alps when we have all this Topre to love.  We need a way to boost the new Topre keycaps anyway, this would be perfect  :thumb:
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Wed, 09 December 2015, 12:39:19
PS: Alps compatibility is something we discussed at some point, but it would add too much complexity to an already complex projrct, in the future... who knows...

Since the board has been designed with the help of Input Club it should be feasible, since they have alrerady done it for their Infinity pcb. Granted, the Whitefox pcb is more complex (LEDs) but slightly larger pads may not be that big of a hurdle. I would gladly give it a try once the files are released if I knew how to use KiCad.

it's not a technical issue but more logistics (more switch options for one). I learned that it's easier to design a product than actually bring it to your home.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: qwack on Wed, 09 December 2015, 12:51:10
That's a fair point :D I had not considered the logistical side of things obviously.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ika on Wed, 09 December 2015, 15:39:28

Can you autograph mine?

we are talking about the feasibility of this thing with MD, it won't be easy, though. The best thing is probably if I sign a card that will be bundled inside the box.

PS: Alps compatibility is something we discussed at some point, but it would add too much complexity to an already complex projrct, in the future... who knows...

I'm sure there's some way you can sign something digitally and have it sent over the tubes into a robot hand that translates your signature :D


Is there any way to get the LEDs on their own? I have switches and keycaps but I've got no LEDs due to relying on sethk's GB.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: mashby on Wed, 09 December 2015, 16:20:01

Can you autograph mine?

we are talking about the feasibility of this thing with MD, it won't be easy, though. The best thing is probably if I sign a card that will be bundled inside the box.

PS: Alps compatibility is something we discussed at some point, but it would add too much complexity to an already complex projrct, in the future... who knows...

I'm sure there's some way you can sign something digitally and have it sent over the tubes into a robot hand that translates your signature :D


Is there any way to get the LEDs on their own? I have switches and keycaps but I've got no LEDs due to relying on sethk's GB.

The FAQ at this link (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40501.0#post_RR) should give you what you need to source LEDs.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: qwack on Wed, 09 December 2015, 16:22:04
Search for "1.8 mm LEDs" on ebay and you should be set (most kinds of 3 mm LEDs should work as well, but 1.8 mm are shorter, which does not hurt if you want to use thick keycaps).
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Wed, 09 December 2015, 16:33:22
I'll try to keep the base kit as bare bone as possible, so more experienced users can get a WF at a very interesting price point.

LEDs are very easy to source (ebay, mouser, farnell, ...) and cost basically nothing.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Steezus on Wed, 09 December 2015, 20:14:19
I'll try to keep the base kit as bare bone as possible, so more experienced users can get a WF at a very interesting price point.

LEDs are very easy to source (ebay, mouser, farnell, ...) and cost basically nothing.

Awesome, definitely glad to hear that. LEDs are pretty cheap, I always use eBay and getting a U.S. seller is a little more but ships so much faster in the states but still pretty cheap for a pack of 100.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: trenzafeeds on Wed, 09 December 2015, 20:25:47
Wait, so how do the plates work, can I not get an iso winkeyless plate? Do I have to choose between the two?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 09 December 2015, 20:45:56
Estimated ship date is 23 Dec? :O
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: FLFisherman on Wed, 09 December 2015, 20:51:15
Estimated ship date is 23 Dec? :O

Yeah, when I saw that I was extremely surprised. I think Massdrop may have gotten it wrong since Matt3o said it wouldn't be shipped until like February.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Hexterdude on Wed, 09 December 2015, 20:57:06
does anyone know the estimated price for this?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ika on Wed, 09 December 2015, 21:25:36
How heavy is the whole keyboard? I'm not quite sure how exactly the alu bottom is built. Is it just like a low-profile tray that gets "capped" by the plate, which also serves as the case top?

Also I just realized those keycaps are dyesubbed Gateron! Hype! Wish I could buy another full TKL set...
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Thu, 10 December 2015, 01:58:51
Matt3o, suppose I want to order a custom plate elsewhere, because the options given do not please me. If I use the plate builder tool from swill, what are the configurations I must use on screw diameter (probably 2mm, you said you use M2 screws), width & height paddings and corner radius?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Thu, 10 December 2015, 02:41:13
How heavy is the whole keyboard? I'm not quite sure how exactly the alu bottom is built. Is it just like a low-profile tray that gets "capped" by the plate, which also serves as the case top?

Also I just realized those keycaps are dyesubbed Gateron! Hype! Wish I could buy another full TKL set...

Keyboard weights approx 800g. The case is a tray covered by the switch plate, the plate is also the case top. The top is flush tough not recessed.

Matt3o, suppose I want to order a custom plate elsewhere, because the options given do not please me. If I use the plate builder tool from swill, what are the configurations I must use on screw diameter (probably 2mm, you said you use M2 screws), width & height paddings and corner radius?

I'll release full specs asap.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Vimto on Thu, 10 December 2015, 08:49:13
Will there be a way to get a 1.75 control key?
I just saw this and am in love with true fox except the caps lock key which i would prefer to switch to control
Also what switches are people looking to get with this, for someone who's new to Cherry switches which ones would you recommend for gaming?
I was thinking of going with Clears or Zealios.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: mashby on Thu, 10 December 2015, 08:52:42
They opened a discussion page for the board on Massdrop. You can find it here (https://www.massdrop.com/buy/the-whitefox-keyboard?referer=A577DQ&mode=guest_open&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=White%20Fox%20A%20Massdrop%20Custom%20Announce&utm_term=Community%20-%20Mechanical%20Keyboards%20-%20%5BA%5D).
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: qwack on Thu, 10 December 2015, 08:53:42
Zealios are all the rage, but you can't go wrong with Reds or evens Blacks for gaming. There is no best switch for any kind of use anyway, it's down to anyone's preferences. If you search the forum you'll find tons of threads named "are Reds good for typing" or "are Clears good for gaming" and lots of people answering "yes, they are".

Also according to the mockup on MD there will be 1.75 control and fn keys to replace capslock.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Thu, 10 December 2015, 08:54:31
Will there be a way to get a 1.75 control key?

look closer at the available keycaps :)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Vimto on Thu, 10 December 2015, 09:13:04
Zealios are all the rage, but you can't go wrong with Reds or evens Blacks for gaming. There is no best switch for any kind of use anyway, it's down to anyone's preferences. If you search the forum you'll find tons of threads named "are Reds good for typing" or "are Clears good for gaming" and lots of people answering "yes, they are".

Also according to the mockup on MD there will be 1.75 control and fn keys to replace capslock.

Will there be a way to get a 1.75 control key?

look closer at the available keycaps :)

Thanks guys, didn't see the extra pictures on MassDrop.

So my next question for matt3o is, which switch will you be using in your white fox?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Thu, 10 December 2015, 09:26:51
So my next question for matt3o is, which switch will you be using in your white fox?

that's the one million dollar question. I despise tactile switches, for me only clicky or linear, with a preference on MX white, green (for clicky) and black (for linear). So I'll probably have one with linear zaelios and one with possibly mx white (just because of WHITE fox)

PS: the one I have now is a variable Cherry MX green+blue+white. It's pretty nice actually.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Thu, 10 December 2015, 09:36:14
So my next question for matt3o is, which switch will you be using in your white fox?

that's the one million dollar question. I despise tactile switches, for me only clicky or linear, with a preference on MX white, green (for clicky) and black (for linear). So I'll probably have one with linear zaelios and one with possibly mx white (just because of WHITE fox)

PS: the one I have now is a variable Cherry MX green+blue+white. It's pretty nice actually.

I don't know why it bothers me, but is it "Matt3o" or "matt3o"? I always thought the "M" was uppercase, but Massdrop wrote it all lowercase.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Vimto on Thu, 10 December 2015, 09:41:25
OK thats decided it for me. Going to get it in True Fox fully assembled with Zealio's (I've never soldered before, and don't want to mess up on such a beautiful design)

Now i just want to get a Limited Edition one as well :(
Could you make the Limited Edition one Bluetooth. That would make it even more special :)

Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Thu, 10 December 2015, 09:51:28
I don't know why it bothers me, but is it "Matt3o" or "matt3o"? I always thought the "M" was uppercase, but Massdrop wrote it all lowercase.

They are both correct :)

matt3o is when I feel more robotic, Matt3o is for the human part.

OK thats decided it for me. Going to get it in True Fox fully assembled with Zealio's (I've never soldered before, and don't want to mess up on such a beautiful design)

Now i just want to get a Limited Edition one as well :(
Could you make the Limited Edition one Bluetooth. That would make it even more special :)

there will be possibly a bluetooth version, but it will take some time and I'm not sure the case could be full alu (due to interference).
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 10 December 2015, 09:54:37
there will be possibly a bluetooth version,

:eek:

I could totally see a bluetooth version of this being something I would use.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: mashby on Thu, 10 December 2015, 09:55:08
So my next question for matt3o is, which switch will you be using in your white fox?

that's the one million dollar question. I despise tactile switches, for me only clicky or linear, with a preference on MX white, green (for clicky) and black (for linear). So I'll probably have one with linear zaelios and one with possibly mx white (just because of WHITE fox)

PS: the one I have now is a variable Cherry MX green+blue+white. It's pretty nice actually.

I've been debating on the switch to use as well and I think you just helped me make up my mind -- MX White with white tops!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Thu, 10 December 2015, 10:01:20
The whitefox is now TMK ready! https://github.com/tmk/whitefox thanks to Hasu!


I've been debating on the switch to use as well and I think you just helped me make up my mind -- MX White with white tops!

that's actually a very nice idea. where do you get the white tops?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: childofthehorn on Thu, 10 December 2015, 10:18:50
Any chance that this will support Alps?

I am all about pushing the Alps love over here!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 10 December 2015, 10:22:00
Any chance that this will support Alps?

I am all about pushing the Alps love over here!

It's already been mentioned in this thread and in the OP it's only supporting MX. You'd have to do a mod like E3E did on his Eagle PCB (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77497.msg1952047#msg1952047).
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: childofthehorn on Thu, 10 December 2015, 16:01:57
Just trying to see if we can change some minds. this thing looks just great. Modded Gateron Blues can only get you so close.......
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: E3E on Thu, 10 December 2015, 16:16:54
Just trying to see if we can change some minds. this thing looks just great. Modded Gateron Blues can only get you so close.......

I'd be happy to modify it to Alps for you if you're really itching for an Alps 65%.  :thumb:

Would have to take a gander at how close the traces are to each other, but regardless, it could most likely be done.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: mashby on Thu, 10 December 2015, 16:37:40
that's actually a very nice idea. where do you get the white tops?

I got them as part of the original AboStudio Group Buy (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46446.0) kinruan did back in --  :eek: YIKES  :eek: -- 2013.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Thu, 10 December 2015, 16:43:09
that's actually a very nice idea. where do you get the white tops?

I got them as part of the original AboStudio Group Buy (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46446.0) kinruan did back in --  :eek: YIKES  :eek: -- 2013.

I'll probably have to rape some gaterons :)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: AKmalamute on Thu, 10 December 2015, 17:25:33
I'd be happy to modify it to Alps
Depending on the details, maybe the best route would be to open-source the PCB files sometime near the close of orders, then you can adjust the PCB to be ALPS-only, then have a separate (PCB-Only?) GB for Alps-Adjusted-Whitefox.

But I have to side with Matt3o that concentrating on a single product, makes it more likely to be completely produced.

(but I have to agree with ChildOfTheHorn that a good ALPS PCB would be awesome. )
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: mashby on Thu, 10 December 2015, 18:13:30
that's actually a very nice idea. where do you get the white tops?

I got them as part of the original AboStudio Group Buy (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46446.0) kinruan did back in --  :eek: YIKES  :eek: -- 2013.

I'll probably have to rape some gaterons :)

Yeah. There's no Gateron equivalent for an MX-White is there?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Thu, 10 December 2015, 18:21:24
that's actually a very nice idea. where do you get the white tops?

I got them as part of the original AboStudio Group Buy (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46446.0) kinruan did back in --  :eek: YIKES  :eek: -- 2013.

I'll probably have to rape some gaterons :)

Yeah. There's no Gateron equivalent for an MX-White is there?

Nah. Whites are clicky, but a very soft click. I guess you'd have Gateron Blues and mod them somehow to make them quieter. More work than its worth, I'm sure.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: E3E on Thu, 10 December 2015, 18:23:47
that's actually a very nice idea. where do you get the white tops?

I got them as part of the original AboStudio Group Buy (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46446.0) kinruan did back in --  :eek: YIKES  :eek: -- 2013.

I'll probably have to rape some gaterons :)

Yeah. There's no Gateron equivalent for an MX-White is there?

Nah. Whites are clicky, but a very soft click. I guess you'd have Gateron Blues and mod them somehow to make them quieter. More work than its worth, I'm sure.

Yeah. If you don't mind opening all the switches, I hear that it's just a matter of more lube on the slider's legs, but that might be speculation rather than fact. I can't be sure. All I know is that I want some damn vintage MX whites. :P

In general, I think it's stated that lubing clicky switches in the MX family quiets their clicks a bit.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: piemancoder on Thu, 10 December 2015, 22:07:06
This is one awesome keyboard, and I definitely want one. I have a few questions though. Will we be able to get parts by themselves? For example, just the case or just the PCB and plate. Sorry of this has been answered already.

Also, do you have any tips for building a keyboard from scratch? I wanted to try and make a keyboard, but I am very much a beginner.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: n__dles on Thu, 10 December 2015, 22:13:10
Also, do you have any tips for building a keyboard from scratch?
Check this (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69582.0) thread out.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 10 December 2015, 22:58:04
there will be possibly a bluetooth version,

:eek:

I could totally see a bluetooth version of this being something I would use.

+1  I could see myself using a bluetooth WhiteFox as my media center keyboard.  :thumb:
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: n__dles on Thu, 10 December 2015, 23:22:41
+1  I could see myself using a bluetooth WhiteFox as my media center keyboard.  :thumb:
Keyboard orders of magnitude better than the best kbd most will ever type on serves as Hoffman's glorified remote control  :cool: :p :thumb:
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: cswanic on Fri, 11 December 2015, 01:53:13
Quantity update bumped this to 1,000.  The drop strikes tonight
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ika on Fri, 11 December 2015, 02:04:20
Buy is live! I did not expect this price, and fully assembled is only another $15. That's a great deal. I'm really sad to see that it's only compatible with costar stabs, though, I despise them with a passion :(
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Hexterdude on Fri, 11 December 2015, 02:04:59
will this drop have a bluetooth option?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Vimto on Fri, 11 December 2015, 02:09:35
Argh can't get it assembled with Zealios. At the moment i've ordered it as a kit, but wondering what people would recommend if I get an assembled board?

Will it be hard to assemble for someone who has 0 experience of soldering?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: E3E on Fri, 11 December 2015, 02:17:32
Argh can't get it assembled with Zealios. At the moment i've ordered it as a kit, but wondering what people would recommend if I get an assembled board?

Will it be hard to assemble for someone who has 0 experience of soldering?

Not at all. Soldering is easy peasy. Just don't hold the iron to the switch pins for too long because you might melt the housings. Just enough for the solder to wet the pin and the pad and create a secure joint. Switch soldering is one of the easiest things to do. Don't be intimidated!  :thumb:
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Delirious on Fri, 11 December 2015, 02:22:06
I remembered matt3o mentioned wanting to keep the production at 500. Was it MD that went against your will for 1000 units?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Fri, 11 December 2015, 02:46:50
I remembered matt3o mentioned wanting to keep the production at 500. Was it MD that went against your will for 1000 units?

we are dealing with OEMs to get the best pricing possible, so 1000 is not really that much (actually the bare minimum)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: vercadium on Fri, 11 December 2015, 02:50:33
Argh can't get it assembled with Zealios. At the moment i've ordered it as a kit, but wondering what people would recommend if I get an assembled board?

Will it be hard to assemble for someone who has 0 experience of soldering?

Not at all. Soldering is easy peasy. Just don't hold the iron to the switch pins for too long because you might melt the housings. Just enough for the solder to wet the pin and the pad and create a secure joint. Switch soldering is one of the easiest things to do. Don't be intimidated!  :thumb:

Any quick reference guides you could link us to for switch soldering to illustrate? I could probably just go check the wiki's, but simpler to ask! :)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ika on Fri, 11 December 2015, 02:55:00
I remembered matt3o mentioned wanting to keep the production at 500. Was it MD that went against your will for 1000 units?

we are dealing with OEMs to get the best pricing possible, so 1000 is not really that much (actually the bare minimum)

Given the sales numbers not even an hour after the debut, I think that was probably a good decision. Is it too early to call this a stunning success?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: n__dles on Fri, 11 December 2015, 02:58:32
Any quick reference guides you could link us to for switch soldering to illustrate? I could probably just go check the wiki's, but simpler to ask! :)
Soldering is much easier than I thought it would be before I started. It's more about knowing the right technique, and using the right equipment than having nimble fingers and a steady hand. I seem to remember watching a few videos from EEVblog when I first started. Anyhow invest a few hours researching, you'll be happy you did.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: stoic-lemon on Fri, 11 December 2015, 03:25:43
I remembered matt3o mentioned wanting to keep the production at 500. Was it MD that went against your will for 1000 units?

Agreed! I am also a noob when it comes to soldering, but I read up a lot here and followed build logs of others and it helped me a lot. Now I feel like I know more what to watch out for. I am using a Teensy to covert an old Apple keyboard to USB and will harvest switches from another keyboard to use in my Monarch keyboard. This is all good experience for putting together a board of my own. This one might be it.

I say you can do it if you arm yourself with some knowledge and the right tools.

Failing all that you might find someone to assemble it for you. :D
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Thumper_ on Fri, 11 December 2015, 03:26:59
Just entered the drop. Really excited about it.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Fri, 11 December 2015, 03:36:18
Given the sales numbers not even an hour after the debut, I think that was probably a good decision. Is it too early to call this a stunning success?

not until everybody get a working WhiteFox on their hands.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Vimto on Fri, 11 December 2015, 04:41:40
Does it come with the cable i see in the pics on Massdrop?
If not where can i get a cable like that from?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Thumper_ on Fri, 11 December 2015, 04:42:28

Does it come with the cable i see in the pics on Massdrop?
If not where can i get a cable like that from?

I don't know, but you can get those cables from pexonpcs or zeal for example.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Fri, 11 December 2015, 04:49:37
Does it come with the cable i see in the pics on Massdrop?
If not where can i get a cable like that from?

cable is included
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: trenzafeeds on Fri, 11 December 2015, 06:12:13
Congrats to matt on getting this to where it is, really looking good and I'm glad so many people are excited. Personally looking forward to a premium edition.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Fri, 11 December 2015, 06:24:36
"Estimated ship date is March 28, 2016"

3 months is plenty of time to make a custom plate. Correct me if these (mostly guess) specs are wrong, Matt3o:
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Fri, 11 December 2015, 06:34:16
"Estimated ship date is March 28, 2016"

3 months is plenty of time to make a custom plate. Correct me if these (mostly guess) specs are wrong, Matt3o:
  • 8 mounting holes, diameter = 2mm
  • Width padding: 4mm
  • Height padding: 4mm
  • Plate corner radius: 2mm

I'll give you full specs in the coming days, but seems pretty much right. The corner radius should be something more than that. Have to check.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: potatowire on Fri, 11 December 2015, 07:22:36
I just ordered The True Fox with Gateron Blues (because I haven't tried their blues yet). I can't wait! They're selling like hotcakes, congratulations Matt3o!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Fri, 11 December 2015, 07:40:38
Is there a reason Zealios don't come assembled? Are they in ZealPC's stock only?
Also, why are assembled boards cheaper than kits?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: mashby on Fri, 11 December 2015, 07:56:38
Ordered a kit with MX-Whites. Was going to do the Bare Bones, but I wanted the key caps and figured I'd go ahead and get the switches too.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Vittra on Fri, 11 December 2015, 08:05:24
Ordered a kit with MX-Whites. Was going to do the Bare Bones, but I wanted the key caps and figured I'd go ahead and get the switches too.

From what I can tell, pricing is accurate. The Gaterons are cheaper than Cherry, so while the assembled Gateron costs more than the Gateron kit, it's still cheaper than the Cherry kit.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: cswanic on Fri, 11 December 2015, 08:18:11
It probably wouldn't hurt if some of our esteemed SMEs in here would post some of their recommended videos for how to "best practices" in soldering a keyboard, even a reference or two to another thread they (me) could read while we patiently wait for the shipments to come in next year.  If some could throw in the specifics on temperature setting (F or C) and the exact solder type to use.  For those (me) with a Hakko FX-888D (soldering iron), soldering tip to use (bevel, chisel tip, needle point), and a FR300 (desoldering iron for mistakes), it would go a long way for a few (me).
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: stoic-lemon on Fri, 11 December 2015, 08:20:34
The Living Soldering Thread is a good place to start.
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42824.0 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42824.0)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: cswanic on Fri, 11 December 2015, 08:21:51
Hey Matt3o, what can we do about the limited edition options that didn't make it in this first round?  Is Kunal working on this or are we just on hold?  Seems we can make something possible as a separate GB for those pieces similar to what MD did when they ran the infinity parts.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Vittra on Fri, 11 December 2015, 08:36:22
So my next question for matt3o is, which switch will you be using in your white fox?

that's the one million dollar question. I despise tactile switches, for me only clicky or linear, with a preference on MX white, green (for clicky) and black (for linear). So I'll probably have one with linear zaelios and one with possibly mx white (just because of WHITE fox)

PS: the one I have now is a variable Cherry MX green+blue+white. It's pretty nice actually.

Are there any quick references I can look at with respect to the Zealio Linear options vs Cherry Black & Red?

I ordered this board in Gateron Red to see how "smooth" it is compared to MX Red, but the Zealio Linear options are intriguing as well - something to consider for a second run with the special edition.

Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: loki993 on Fri, 11 December 2015, 09:27:58
I think Ill hold out for the special edition and hopefully its not too much more expensive. Will there be another regular run too?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ika on Fri, 11 December 2015, 09:29:23
wait, what's this about a special edition?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Fri, 11 December 2015, 09:32:20
Hey Matt3o, what can we do about the limited edition options that didn't make it in this first round?  Is Kunal working on this or are we just on hold?  Seems we can make something possible as a separate GB for those pieces similar to what MD did when they ran the infinity parts.

considering the number of orders in less than 24h it is very likely that we will run more in the future. But it's still early to say, we have to see if everything in production goes smooth.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Booper on Fri, 11 December 2015, 09:49:29
Glad I as able to get in on this before all 500 orders are up!

Congrats Matt3o on another super awesome and successful creation! And thank you for bringing it to the community <3
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Fri, 11 December 2015, 09:58:38
Glad I as able to get in on this before all 500 orders are up!

Congrats Matt3o on another super awesome and successful creation! And thank you for bringing it to the community <3

It's been extended to 1,000. So far we're over 400 (in less than 24 hours)!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: xondat on Fri, 11 December 2015, 10:15:08
Glad I as able to get in on this before all 500 orders are up!

Congrats Matt3o on another super awesome and successful creation! And thank you for bringing it to the community <3

It's been extended to 1,000. So far we're over 400 (in less than 24 hours)!

That's mad, will the production time stay the same though?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: fliptrik on Fri, 11 December 2015, 10:31:08
I just ordered The True Fox with Gateron Blues (because I haven't tried their blues yet). I can't wait! They're selling like hotcakes, congratulations Matt3o!

I got the same thing!  :thumb: I think part of it was that sexy photo they're using that show the clear switch tops sticking out.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: mashby on Fri, 11 December 2015, 10:52:29
I jumped on the drop from my mobile to make sure that I didn't miss out, so I didn't focus too much on the pricing. Now that I'm reviewing my order on my desktop, I'm amazed at some of the pricing. Matt3o, you did an amazing job providing assembled boards!

Here's a breakdown of what the prices are if you're looking for a clicky switch:

$109.99 -  Barebones (-$60)
$169.99 - DIY Kit with Gateron Blue
$184.99 - Assembled with Gateron Blue (+15)
$189.99 - DIY Kit with Cherry MX-Blue (+20)
$204.99 - Assembled with Cherry MX-Blue (+$35)
$219.99 - DIY Kit with Cherry MX-White (+$50)

Unfortunately, the option I want is the most expensive, but I'm really impressed at the assembled prices. If you want stock Gateron switches, I don't know why you would opt for the assembled board for only $15 more.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: trees on Fri, 11 December 2015, 10:57:48
I do not want to miss out on this, but im short on $ to invest in a long term project :/
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Steezus on Fri, 11 December 2015, 10:58:44
I do not want to miss out on this, but im short on $ to invest in a long term project :/

I'm in the same boat as you, trying to save to splurge on a new monitor but I've been waiting so long for this board to be released. :(
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: loki993 on Fri, 11 December 2015, 11:04:03
wait, what's this about a special edition?

From the OP:
As a side note, I'm fighting (and seems that I won the battle) for a limited edition WhiteFox, available in only one layout (#5 the true fox) with dark gold anodized case and black on dark-gray keycaps. That it is expected to be a pinch more expensive, but gosh if it will be sexy!


Now the only question is a pinch actually a pinch or sarcasm?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Fri, 11 December 2015, 11:07:54
wait, what's this about a special edition?

From the OP:
As a side note, I'm fighting (and seems that I won the battle) for a limited edition WhiteFox, available in only one layout (#5 the true fox) with dark gold anodized case and black on dark-gray keycaps. That it is expected to be a pinch more expensive, but gosh if it will be sexy!


Now the only question is a pinch actually a pinch or sarcasm?

Later in the thread (so somewhere above) he stated he couldn't make it work after all for this round, but he still hopes to bring it in future drop.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: HungryPillow on Fri, 11 December 2015, 11:46:23
In for an assembled Cherry MX Brown. I wanted to try the Zealios purples but they were sold out by the time I joined and didn't come assembled so I guess that made my decision easier lol
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: loki993 on Fri, 11 December 2015, 12:08:12
wait, what's this about a special edition?

From the OP:
As a side note, I'm fighting (and seems that I won the battle) for a limited edition WhiteFox, available in only one layout (#5 the true fox) with dark gold anodized case and black on dark-gray keycaps. That it is expected to be a pinch more expensive, but gosh if it will be sexy!


Now the only question is a pinch actually a pinch or sarcasm?

Later in the thread (so somewhere above) he stated he couldn't make it work after all for this round, but he still hopes to bring it in future drop.

Right I wasnt expecting it this round. I was hoping for a later one because I dont think I can get in on this one.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: retrochick on Fri, 11 December 2015, 12:17:32
kinda accidentally bought one because the paypal payment system isn't explicit when you hit "continue" that it would actually submit and process your payment. Anywhooooooooooo imma leave it alone. #truefox
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: E3E on Fri, 11 December 2015, 12:28:11
kinda accidentally bought one because the paypal payment system isn't explicit when you hit "continue" that it would actually submit and process your payment. Anywhooooooooooo imma leave it alone. #truefox

I hate when that happens! Good thing it won't be a regrettable purchase though. :)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Fri, 11 December 2015, 12:53:21
kinda accidentally bought one because the paypal payment system isn't explicit when you hit "continue" that it would actually submit and process your payment. Anywhooooooooooo imma leave it alone. #truefox

you don't fk with fate!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: retrochick on Fri, 11 December 2015, 13:09:35
kinda accidentally bought one because the paypal payment system isn't explicit when you hit "continue" that it would actually submit and process your payment. Anywhooooooooooo imma leave it alone. #truefox

you don't fk with fate!

'twas meant to be.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: kristofv on Fri, 11 December 2015, 13:45:23
ok, I also bought one :). Can't wait to get my hands on it.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Wilkie on Fri, 11 December 2015, 14:29:42
So my next question for matt3o is, which switch will you be using in your white fox?

that's the one million dollar question. I despise tactile switches, for me only clicky or linear, with a preference on MX white, green (for clicky) and black (for linear). So I'll probably have one with linear zaelios and one with possibly mx white (just because of WHITE fox)

PS: the one I have now is a variable Cherry MX green+blue+white. It's pretty nice actually.

Matt3o, what's your opinion of MX Linear Grey?  Ever used it for extended typing?  Thanks and congratulations.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: V1ral on Fri, 11 December 2015, 15:05:53
Ordered one. Words cannot describe how excited I am to not only get some Zealios, but also to finally get to assemble a board from scratch.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ccc24 on Fri, 11 December 2015, 15:08:29
is there guide on how to flash the firmware? and do the costar stabilizers have the white stem insert included?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: FuriousGeorge on Fri, 11 December 2015, 15:22:36
kinda accidentally bought one because the paypal payment system isn't explicit when you hit "continue" that it would actually submit and process your payment. Anywhooooooooooo imma leave it alone. #truefox

With Massdrop you can always set your payment type to bitcoin if you want time to decide. You aren't asked for payment information until the drop ends. Then you have 24 hours (I think) to enter a valid payment.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: chalks on Fri, 11 December 2015, 16:11:01
Does the plate allow the switch tops to be opened without desoldering them?

I decided to go with the fully assembled Gateron Brown option as $15 is cheaper than buying a soldering iron and learning how to solder.

If at some point in the future I decide to get some purple Zealios can just I pop the switch open and swap the slider and spring in? Would that feel the same as proper Zealios?

Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 11 December 2015, 16:15:02
Does the plate allow the switch tops to be opened without desoldering them?

I decided to go with the fully assembled Gateron Brown option as $15 is cheaper than buying a soldering iron and learning how to solder.

If at some point in the future I decide to get some purple Zealios can just I pop the switch open and swap the slider and spring in? Would that feel the same as proper Zealios?



Based on the massdrop plate photos they should however, it won't work if you have LED's installed unless you use sip sockets for the LED's.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: E3E on Fri, 11 December 2015, 16:15:14
Does the plate allow the switch tops to be opened without desoldering them?

I decided to go with the fully assembled Gateron Brown option as $15 is cheaper than buying a soldering iron and learning how to solder.

If at some point in the future I decide to get some purple Zealios can just I pop the switch open and swap the slider and spring in? Would that feel the same as proper Zealios?

Zealios have modified contact leaves compared to normal Gaterons, so they wouldn't be compatible, at least not the purple Zealios, as the original leaf was incompatible with Cherry MX Clear sliders. I vaguely recall a member on here swapping out all the contacts on their Gateron switches for Cherry contacts just so they could use MX clear stems. This was before Zealios landed.

You can always get linear Zealios if they are still available, as those do have modified leaves that are compatible with clear stems/purple zealio stems.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Fri, 11 December 2015, 16:40:13
is there guide on how to flash the firmware? and do the costar stabilizers have the white stem insert included?

there will be soon enough

Matt3o, what's your opinion of MX Linear Grey?  Ever used it for extended typing?  Thanks and congratulations.

I find black stiff enough, I honestly never typed for long time over a full linear gray keyboard.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: SwissFTW on Fri, 11 December 2015, 16:41:06
is there guide on how to flash the firmware? and do the costar stabilizers have the white stem insert included?

Related to this - I've never used Input Club before to create a layout. Can anyone tell me which is the "Fn" key? I know where I want it to be, but I dont see the "Fn" command available.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: V1ral on Fri, 11 December 2015, 16:43:20
Related to this - I've never used Input Club before to create a layout. Can anyone tell me which is the "Fn" key? I know where I want it to be, but I dont see the "Fn" command available.

If you look on the first row under "special", there are buttons for f1-7.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: SwissFTW on Fri, 11 December 2015, 16:48:42
Related to this - I've never used Input Club before to create a layout. Can anyone tell me which is the "Fn" key? I know where I want it to be, but I dont see the "Fn" command available.

If you look on the first row under "special", there are buttons for f1-7.

Ahh.. That makes sense. Thanks!!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: thaddeus on Fri, 11 December 2015, 18:45:47
I've got 70 65g Zealios from the GB and have been planning and browsing around for a PCB/case.... now I can only think of the WhiteFox

Matt3o, it's a gorgeous work, thank you for putting this together! Time to dig through my couch cracks and search for the $100 I need :)

Seeing that you've already had 750+ purchases, it's safe to say this board is in high demand. What are your thoughts about running a second round GB?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: chalks on Fri, 11 December 2015, 18:58:15
Does the plate allow the switch tops to be opened without desoldering them?

I decided to go with the fully assembled Gateron Brown option as $15 is cheaper than buying a soldering iron and learning how to solder.

If at some point in the future I decide to get some purple Zealios can just I pop the switch open and swap the slider and spring in? Would that feel the same as proper Zealios?
Based on the massdrop plate photos they should however, it won't work if you have LED's installed unless you use sip sockets for the LED's.

Zealios have modified contact leaves compared to normal Gaterons, so they wouldn't be compatible, at least not the purple Zealios, as the original leaf was incompatible with Cherry MX Clear sliders. I vaguely recall a member on here swapping out all the contacts on their Gateron switches for Cherry contacts just so they could use MX clear stems. This was before Zealios landed.

You can always get linear Zealios if they are still available, as those do have modified leaves that are compatible with clear stems/purple zealio stems.


SpAmRaY, E3E thanks for the detailed answers!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: piemancoder on Fri, 11 December 2015, 22:06:46
Also, do you have any tips for building a keyboard from scratch?
Check this (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69582.0) thread out.

Thank you!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: swill on Fri, 11 December 2015, 22:17:52
I was convinced I was going to get an Aria layout until, like, right now.  The True Fox is calling and I am pretty curious.  I think that is a really interesting layout...   Hmmm, decisions...
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: swill on Fri, 11 December 2015, 23:46:33
Anyone in the US who is already planning to place an order willing to proxy for me to Canada?  I am trying to avoid the 60$ in duty that I will get dinged with if I order directly from Massdrop...
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: martinyeah on Sat, 12 December 2015, 01:13:32
Ordered one.  Layout: Aria

Thank you Matt3o !!!!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Sat, 12 December 2015, 03:27:44
thanks everybody! I'm so glad you liked the whitefox and I'm overwhelmed by the success. I told MD that I would be happy with 200 pieces sold, but we are beyond any expectation.

Seeing that you've already had 750+ purchases, it's safe to say this board is in high demand. What are your thoughts about running a second round GB?

we are already talking about that. stay tuned!

Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Snottra on Sat, 12 December 2015, 04:40:56
Ouch! Was just about to order but noticed the Tactile Zelios are all sold out  :'(
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Sat, 12 December 2015, 07:48:00
What is included in the package, along with a creative design makes this a very good deal, congratulations Matt.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Sat, 12 December 2015, 07:56:50
thanks, really appreciated!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: mashby on Sat, 12 December 2015, 10:16:40
Anyone in the US who is already planning to place an order willing to proxy for me to Canada?  I am trying to avoid the 60$ in duty that I will get dinged with if I order directly from Massdrop...

Swill -- I'll hook you up. PM me if you still need a proxy.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: thaddeus on Sat, 12 December 2015, 10:26:58
thanks everybody! I'm so glad you liked the whitefox and I'm overwhelmed by the success. I told MD that I would be happy with 200 pieces sold, but we are beyond any expectation.

Seeing that you've already had 750+ purchases, it's safe to say this board is in high demand. What are your thoughts about running a second round GB?

we are already talking about that. stay tuned!

 :thumb:
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: xondat on Sat, 12 December 2015, 11:20:52
Is there no way to get everything but switches?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: mashby on Sat, 12 December 2015, 11:25:14
Is there no way to get everything but switches?

Unfortunately not.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Sat, 12 December 2015, 11:50:46
Is there no way to get everything but switches?


You can get the switches at other places pal, this is about the PCB the plates and the case, come on.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: mashby on Sat, 12 December 2015, 11:56:53
Is there no way to get everything but switches?


You can get the switches at other places pal, this is about the PCB the plates and the case, come on.

I think he was referring to the ability to get the key caps and USB cable too. Unfortunately, those options are only available in the full DIY kit, which includes switches.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Sat, 12 December 2015, 12:15:28
Is there no way to get everything but switches?


You can get the switches at other places pal, this is about the PCB the plates and the case, come on.

I think he was referring to the ability to get the key caps and USB cable too. Unfortunately, those options are only available in the full DIY kit, which includes switches.


My bad, sorry, I did not read it carefully.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: piemancoder on Sat, 12 December 2015, 12:53:14
thanks everybody! I'm so glad you liked the whitefox and I'm overwhelmed by the success. I told MD that I would be happy with 200 pieces sold, but we are beyond any expectation.

Seeing that you've already had 750+ purchases, it's safe to say this board is in high demand. What are your thoughts about running a second round GB?

we are already talking about that. stay tuned!

Yay! Hopefully the special edition will be available in the second run.  :D
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: breitling on Sat, 12 December 2015, 16:16:11
Placed my order for an aria kit. Love it! Thanks!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: swimmingbird on Sat, 12 December 2015, 16:28:10
Bought two True Fox barebones kits - tempted to change one to WKL but I think this is the one to go with :)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: xondat on Sat, 12 December 2015, 16:41:25
Is there no way to get everything but switches?


You can get the switches at other places pal, this is about the PCB the plates and the case, come on.

I think he was referring to the ability to get the key caps and USB cable too. Unfortunately, those options are only available in the full DIY kit, which includes switches.


My bad, sorry, I did not read it carefully.

No problem. Yeah; really want everything and use my own switches because Zealios sold out but oh well. Don't really want to spend the extra on some switches I won't use.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: piemancoder on Sat, 12 December 2015, 16:55:59
Is there no way to get everything but switches?


You can get the switches at other places pal, this is about the PCB the plates and the case, come on.

I think he was referring to the ability to get the key caps and USB cable too. Unfortunately, those options are only available in the full DIY kit, which includes switches.


My bad, sorry, I did not read it carefully.

No problem. Yeah; really want everything and use my own switches because Zealios sold out but oh well. Don't really want to spend the extra on some switches I won't use.

You could get the unassembled kit with Gateron switches, I don't think that those add to the price.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: AKmalamute on Sat, 12 December 2015, 17:00:00
Maybe I missed it somewhere, but is this going to be open-sourced at some point? For things like modifying for ALPS, and a split space bar...?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: rolecks on Sat, 12 December 2015, 17:01:10
Wow these things are flying off the figurative shelves! Glad I got in. Can't wait to tackle this one as my first complete project.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: xondat on Sat, 12 December 2015, 17:11:03
Is there no way to get everything but switches?


You can get the switches at other places pal, this is about the PCB the plates and the case, come on.

I think he was referring to the ability to get the key caps and USB cable too. Unfortunately, those options are only available in the full DIY kit, which includes switches.


My bad, sorry, I did not read it carefully.

No problem. Yeah; really want everything and use my own switches because Zealios sold out but oh well. Don't really want to spend the extra on some switches I won't use.

You could get the unassembled kit with Gateron switches, I don't think that those add to the price.

Doesn't add to the base price but I just wish there was a switchless option; oh well, most likely will be sold out by the time I get paid.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Sat, 12 December 2015, 17:32:33
You may opt to get the PCB, plate and case only, the other components can be source elsewhere. It is around 110 bucks.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: potatowire on Sat, 12 December 2015, 18:07:27
Doesn't add to the base price but I just wish there was a switchless option; oh well, most likely will be sold out by the time I get paid.

They only bill you when the drop ends, so you can order now, if you want. Plus, they added a second batch of 1,000 (2k total) which will ship a couple/few months later than the first batch, so you are probably okay to wait.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: xondat on Sat, 12 December 2015, 18:14:07
Doesn't add to the base price but I just wish there was a switchless option; oh well, most likely will be sold out by the time I get paid.

They only bill you when the drop ends, so you can order now, if you want. Plus, they added a second batch of 1,000 (2k total) which will ship a couple/few months later than the first batch, so you are probably okay to wait.

Oh now I have to order one. Although I usually get billed instantly using PayPal?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: iss on Sat, 12 December 2015, 18:48:54
Maybe I missed it somewhere, but is this going to be open-sourced at some point? For things like modifying for ALPS, and a split space bar...?

Seems like it will be soon! (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59827.msg1950678#msg1950678) Hopefully this happens as soon as possible, really curious about that PCB.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Vittra on Sat, 12 December 2015, 19:05:56
Doesn't add to the base price but I just wish there was a switchless option; oh well, most likely will be sold out by the time I get paid.

They only bill you when the drop ends, so you can order now, if you want. Plus, they added a second batch of 1,000 (2k total) which will ship a couple/few months later than the first batch, so you are probably okay to wait.

Oh now I have to order one. Although I usually get billed instantly using PayPal?

It's an authorization for payment, but you aren't billed immediately. It should indicate such when you receive the email from Paypal, and if you go into Paypal, it will be under the "Pending" section and indicate you will they complete.

I've seen other sites that also use this rather when the goods are ready to ship, rather than charging immediately.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Sun, 13 December 2015, 02:53:55
Maybe I missed it somewhere, but is this going to be open-sourced at some point? For things like modifying for ALPS, and a split space bar...?

yes, it's open hardware/software. You'll get everything.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: zinger on Sun, 13 December 2015, 04:13:57
Hi Matt3o, can you post a picture of the WhiteFox with the LEDs on?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Sun, 13 December 2015, 04:16:08
Hi Matt3o, can you post a picture of the WhiteFox with the LEDs on?

I'm waiting for some more PCBs to make a full tutorial (and add LEDs)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: zinger on Sun, 13 December 2015, 07:46:50
Hi Matt3o, can you post a picture of the WhiteFox with the LEDs on?

I'm waiting for some more PCBs to make a full tutorial (and add LEDs)

Ok, thank you.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: NorrisB on Sun, 13 December 2015, 12:44:58
How does this compare to the Inifinity keyboard?  is this programmeable at all?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: NorrisB on Sun, 13 December 2015, 12:45:49
What exactly does "assembled" and not assembled entail.  Am I going to have to do soldiering with not assembled?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Steezus on Sun, 13 December 2015, 12:49:54
What exactly does "assembled" and not assembled entail.  Am I going to have to do soldiering with not assembled?

Assembled means the board is shipped to you completely put together. Opting out of the assembled option means that you have to solder the switches and LEDs to the PCB.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Sun, 13 December 2015, 12:55:36
How does this compare to the Inifinity keyboard?  is this programmeable at all?

yes it is fully programmable.

Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: NorrisB on Sun, 13 December 2015, 15:40:06
So this is superior to an infinity?
How does this compare to the Inifinity keyboard?  is this programmeable at all?

yes it is fully programmable.



The programming options are similar to the infinity or more like the pok3r?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: NorrisB on Sun, 13 December 2015, 15:40:42
Anyway to get this with Purple Kealios?  I heard something about more being added?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: iss on Sun, 13 December 2015, 16:00:13
It's fully programmable, like the Infinity- you can set the function of any switch on any layer.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: qwack on Sun, 13 December 2015, 16:09:08
It's meant to be programmed with the Input Club configurator: http://input.club/configurator
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: NorrisB on Sun, 13 December 2015, 16:39:23
What layout option is the most popular?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: piemancoder on Sun, 13 December 2015, 18:35:39
What layout option is the most popular?

Not sure exactly, but I would assume it would be the True Fox.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: swill on Sun, 13 December 2015, 22:05:51
Anyone in the US who is already planning to place an order willing to proxy for me to Canada?  I am trying to avoid the 60$ in duty that I will get dinged with if I order directly from Massdrop...

Swill -- I'll hook you up. PM me if you still need a proxy.

Sorry for the delay.  Someone had PMed me, so I am following up with that one first.  If that falls through I will PM you.  Thank you for the offer.  :)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Arcoril on Mon, 14 December 2015, 00:15:58
Does anyone know if the Gaterons in this drop the KS-1 plate mounted version or the KS-3 PCB mounted version?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Mon, 14 December 2015, 03:14:35
The programming options are similar to the infinity or more like the pok3r?

no, it's not like the poker 3. You can reprogram the whitefox any way you want with an online tool.

Does anyone know if the Gaterons in this drop the KS-1 plate mounted version or the KS-3 PCB mounted version?

I'm not sure about this, but I would say they are plate mounted.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Arcoril on Mon, 14 December 2015, 04:00:06

Does anyone know if the Gaterons in this drop the KS-1 plate mounted version or the KS-3 PCB mounted version?

I'm not sure about this, but I would say they are plate mounted.

Okay, thanks! I've already got a surplus of Cherry switches that I'd like to use on my WhiteFox. I don't want to go barebones since I do want the caps and the cable, so I figure I can repurpose the Gaterons elsewhere. Even if they are PCB mount I've got some flush cutters. :)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Mon, 14 December 2015, 07:04:39
Just a quick heads-up if you get the barebone kit without keycaps, Signature Plastics is selling the Midnight Set ( http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dcs-midnight-keycap-set-50-off/ ) with a 50% discount! Just remember to grab the additional modifiers to cover the whitefox!

(for those who don't know the Midnight set is also designed by me)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Vittra on Mon, 14 December 2015, 09:22:29
With the group buy being extended to 2000 units (two deployments),  what is the likelihood of the second date having the special edition inclusion at this point?

Will this still be saved for a potential groupbuy in the future rather than this one?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Mon, 14 December 2015, 09:26:15
With the group buy being extended to 2000 units (two deployments),  what is the likelihood of the second date having the special edition inclusion at this point?

Will this still be saved for a potential groupbuy in the future rather than this one?


What is a special edition?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Vittra on Mon, 14 December 2015, 09:28:29
See below:

okay so posting this again :)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/3EpU5ky.png)


(special edition, not sure it will be made, but the case will be gold anodized)

worry not, if the first group buy is successful we will have a second batch for sure (goooold!)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Mon, 14 December 2015, 09:33:33
With the group buy being extended to 2000 units (two deployments),  what is the likelihood of the second date having the special edition inclusion at this point?

Will this still be saved for a potential groupbuy in the future rather than this one?

if we sell all 2000 units we will probably run another batch later next year.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: NorrisB on Mon, 14 December 2015, 10:30:37
Just a quick heads-up if you get the barebone kit without keycaps, Signature Plastics is selling the Midnight Set ( http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dcs-midnight-keycap-set-50-off/ ) with a 50% discount! Just remember to grab the additional modifiers to cover the whitefox!

(for those who don't know the Midnight set is also designed by me)

Could you explain that status on the purple kealios, I read somewhere you had more?

Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Mon, 14 December 2015, 10:47:16
have to wait the west coast to wake up
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Mon, 14 December 2015, 10:52:42
have to wait the west coast to wake up

Ugh. I keep forgetting they're in the west coast. Here I am, working almost two hours in the regular business day, and they're not even open yet!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Mon, 14 December 2015, 11:02:41
I wish Earth were flat.

PS: actually it is flat for a muon...
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: piemancoder on Mon, 14 December 2015, 16:36:03
Just a quick heads-up if you get the barebone kit without keycaps, Signature Plastics is selling the Midnight Set ( http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dcs-midnight-keycap-set-50-off/ ) with a 50% discount! Just remember to grab the additional modifiers to cover the whitefox!

(for those who don't know the Midnight set is also designed by me)

Sorry for the noob question, but is it $50 with or without the sale?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Mon, 14 December 2015, 16:39:53
A fox?


(http://i.imgur.com/lGPPOot.jpg)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: f1xedgear on Mon, 14 December 2015, 16:42:05
A fox?


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/lGPPOot.jpg)

That's a Smart68 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=61714.0) (note the FN button below the spacebar on the front)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Mon, 14 December 2015, 16:42:56
A fox?


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/lGPPOot.jpg)


Foxy, but not the TrueFox.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: f1xedgear on Mon, 14 December 2015, 17:39:10
Just a quick heads-up if you get the barebone kit without keycaps, Signature Plastics is selling the Midnight Set ( http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dcs-midnight-keycap-set-50-off/ ) with a 50% discount! Just remember to grab the additional modifiers to cover the whitefox!

(for those who don't know the Midnight set is also designed by me)

Sorry for the noob question, but is it $50 with or without the sale?

$50 is the on sale price.

It is $20 for the base set and $30 for modifiers kit ($50 total to cover a tenkeyless board). Whitefox uses non-standard modifier key sizes though, so as Matt3o said, you also need the additional mods kit ($25). The keyset would cost you $75 total.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: piemancoder on Mon, 14 December 2015, 18:10:32
Just a quick heads-up if you get the barebone kit without keycaps, Signature Plastics is selling the Midnight Set ( http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dcs-midnight-keycap-set-50-off/ ) with a 50% discount! Just remember to grab the additional modifiers to cover the whitefox!

(for those who don't know the Midnight set is also designed by me)

Sorry for the noob question, but is it $50 with or without the sale?

$50 is the on sale price.

It is $20 for the base set and $30 for modifiers kit ($50 total to cover a tenkeyless board). Whitefox uses non-standard modifier key sizes though, so as Matt3o said, you also need the additional mods kit ($25). The keyset would cost you $75 total.

Thank you! Still a bit expensive with everything though. But I guess it's probably worth it.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: FLFisherman on Mon, 14 December 2015, 18:35:39
Just a quick heads-up if you get the barebone kit without keycaps, Signature Plastics is selling the Midnight Set ( http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dcs-midnight-keycap-set-50-off/ ) with a 50% discount! Just remember to grab the additional modifiers to cover the whitefox!

(for those who don't know the Midnight set is also designed by me)

Sorry for the noob question, but is it $50 with or without the sale?

$50 is the on sale price.

It is $20 for the base set and $30 for modifiers kit ($50 total to cover a tenkeyless board). Whitefox uses non-standard modifier key sizes though, so as Matt3o said, you also need the additional mods kit ($25). The keyset would cost you $75 total.

Thank you! Still a bit expensive with everything though. But I guess it's probably worth it.

You could also try the Classifieds and see if anyone is willing to part with one for less. You never know.  ;D
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: NorrisB on Mon, 14 December 2015, 22:16:11
If you buy the barebones there is no difference between the layouts am I right?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Mon, 14 December 2015, 22:18:36
If you buy the barebones there is no difference between the layouts am I right?


You should get the plate you need, the plates make the difference between alternative layouts, unless you use PCB mounted switches.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: f1xedgear on Mon, 14 December 2015, 22:27:06
If you buy the barebones there is no difference between the layouts am I right?


You should get the plate you need, the plates make the difference between alternative layouts, unless you use PCB mounted switches.

It wouldn't look very good without a plate though... Lots of open space
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Mon, 14 December 2015, 22:38:37
If you buy the barebones there is no difference between the layouts am I right?


You should get the plate you need, the plates make the difference between alternative layouts, unless you use PCB mounted switches.

It wouldn't look very good without a plate though... Lots of open space


I know, just pointing that it is the only way you have not need to care about layouts and their appropriated plates.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Hellmark on Mon, 14 December 2015, 23:21:22
Question for you. Is there anyway to get one after the mass drop ends in 13 days, other than buying used? Recently laid off, so no spare funds, but I've been wanting a fox now for ages.

Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Mon, 14 December 2015, 23:54:31
Just to be clear, the whitefox doesn't work without a plate. You could use just the PCB but you have to build your case then.


Question for you. Is there anyway to get one after the mass drop ends in 13 days, other than buying used? Recently laid off, so no spare funds, but I've been wanting a fox now for ages.

only in the classified I guess
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Tue, 15 December 2015, 07:37:45
Good point, there is no way to affix the PCB inside the case because it does not have standoffs to bolt it on. Thank you for the clarification.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: swimmingbird on Tue, 15 December 2015, 07:44:34
Would be awesome if a limited edition version of the board could come with the logo engraved in the back
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Tue, 15 December 2015, 07:46:46
Would be awesome if a limited edition version of the board could come with the logo engraved in the back

are you in the first batch?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: SwissFTW on Tue, 15 December 2015, 08:52:59
I'm waiting for some more PCBs to make a full tutorial (and add LEDs)

AWESOME!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: pandaaqq on Tue, 15 December 2015, 09:09:39
Would be awesome if a limited edition version of the board could come with the logo engraved in the back

I'm in the first batch and that would be awesome!

Also Matt3o, do you have any plans on releasing some key sets for other layouts (ISO)? (i love your midnight set, for example).
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Tue, 15 December 2015, 09:18:41
FIrst batch is actually a "limited edition".
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: E3E on Tue, 15 December 2015, 09:25:03
FIrst batch is actually a "limited edition".

Despite not being in the buy, this sounds super awesome! I wonder what you have planned. :D
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Tue, 15 December 2015, 09:28:52
Also Matt3o, do you have any plans on releasing some key sets for other layouts (ISO)? (i love your midnight set, for example).

we'll probably run more granite next year
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: SwissFTW on Tue, 15 December 2015, 09:30:33
FIrst batch is actually a "limited edition".

First batch being the first 500 or the first 1000?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Tue, 15 December 2015, 09:37:51
FIrst batch is actually a "limited edition".

First batch being the first 500 or the first 1000?

first batch has always been 1000. 500 is an urban legend.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: SwissFTW on Tue, 15 December 2015, 09:42:09
FIrst batch is actually a "limited edition".

First batch being the first 500 or the first 1000?

first batch has always been 1000. 500 is an urban legend.

haha - fair enough. well I made it into the first batch then - and now i'm even more excited! Didn't think that would be possible. ALL HAIL WHITEFOX!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: cswanic on Tue, 15 December 2015, 10:21:47
we'll probably run more granite next year

Probably?  Is it because SP is backlogged (urban legend lol) or something else?  We need an IC started soon here on this one so this stays on point with Whitefox though I can't help but wonder what your thoughts are.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: f1xedgear on Tue, 15 December 2015, 10:27:02
we'll probably run more granite next year

Probably?  Is it because SP is backlogged (urban legend lol) or something else?  We need an IC started soon here on this one so this stays on point with Whitefox though I can't help but wonder what your thoughts are.

There was some discussion about Granite round 4 on Reddit (https://redd.it/3ooru4) a few months back. Target date was January 2016 and I haven't read anything different since then.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Dernubenfrieken on Tue, 15 December 2015, 10:42:02
we'll probably run more granite next year

Probably?  Is it because SP is backlogged (urban legend lol) or something else?  We need an IC started soon here on this one so this stays on point with Whitefox though I can't help but wonder what your thoughts are.

The "backlog" is for SA, so granite would be uneffected
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Steezus on Tue, 15 December 2015, 11:41:31
we'll probably run more granite next year

Probably?  Is it because SP is backlogged (urban legend lol) or something else?  We need an IC started soon here on this one so this stays on point with Whitefox though I can't help but wonder what your thoughts are.

The "backlog" is for SA, so granite would be uneffected

Yeah I believe it has more to do with the fact that granite has been ran numerous times already. It's nice to run the set multiple times so everybody can get a chance to grab a set but at the same time it's nice to have new sets coming in.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: iss on Tue, 15 December 2015, 11:43:15
What's the secondary IC? Do you use it for LED control?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 15 December 2015, 15:10:18
Well I finally ordered.  :D

Re: Batches
I ordered after the first 1,000 units sold, but when I was selecting all my options they let me pick the "batch" that my board would ship with.  Why would they do that?  What's the reasoning?  :confused:  Wouldn't you just ship them as they come in?  Why would anyone choose to have theirs shipped at a later date??
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Tue, 15 December 2015, 15:11:59
Well I finally ordered.  :D

Re: Batches
I ordered after the first 1,000 units sold, but when I was selecting all my options they let me pick the "batch" that my board would ship with.  Why would they do that?  What's the reasoning?  :confused:  Wouldn't you just ship them as they come in?  Why would anyone choose to have theirs shipped at a later date??

If you were able to select it then someone in the first batch must've canceled. They opened a second batch because the first 1000 sold out, but people in that set may be canceling. I re-ordered this morning and scored a kit in the first batch.  :thumb:
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 15 December 2015, 15:13:17
Well I finally ordered.  :D

Re: Batches
I ordered after the first 1,000 units sold, but when I was selecting all my options they let me pick the "batch" that my board would ship with.  Why would they do that?  What's the reasoning?  :confused:  Wouldn't you just ship them as they come in?  Why would anyone choose to have theirs shipped at a later date??

If you were able to select it then someone in the first batch must've canceled. They opened a second batch because the first 1000 sold out, but people in that set may be canceling. I re-ordered this morning and scored a kit in the first batch.  :thumb:

Oh, cool.  I must have ordered during the awkward transition from batch 1 to batch 2.  It would be nice if they explained what that meant / why there are 2 batch options.  ;)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Tue, 15 December 2015, 16:47:36
you can choose to be part of batch two so you are billed a little later I believe. Someone shifted from batch 1 to batch 2 because they didn't have the funds right away but they will later.

Technically monkey around between batches and generally changing your order if you are in batch 1 is bad for MD, but a small % is tolerated.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: qwack on Wed, 16 December 2015, 08:38:37
What's the secondary IC? Do you use it for LED control?

Looks like an IS31FL3731. LED driver indeed. The Ergodox from Input Club uses the same. I'd wait for the files to be released to be sure though.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: NorrisB on Wed, 16 December 2015, 11:01:23
Matteo anyway you could get massdrop to offer the cable and leds seperately  I want it added to my barebones
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Wed, 16 December 2015, 11:08:54
Matteo anyway you could get massdrop to offer the cable and leds seperately

You mean on another drop? I don't think that would be possible at this stage.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: f1xedgear on Wed, 16 December 2015, 11:15:42
Matteo anyway you could get massdrop to offer the cable and leds seperately

You mean on another drop? I don't think that would be possible at this stage.

Isn't it trivial to obtain these parts separately already? Tons of electronics parts vendors sell LEDs, and USB cables are also not hard to find.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Hellmark on Wed, 16 December 2015, 11:51:20
Question for you. Is there anyway to get one after the mass drop ends in 13 days, other than buying used? Recently laid off, so no spare funds, but I've been wanting a fox now for ages.
only in the classified I guess
That blows. Always my luck.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: sircheddar on Wed, 16 December 2015, 18:38:20
So, if we ordered before 1,000, we get in some sort of special limited edition o: how exciting hype hype!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 16 December 2015, 22:00:04
Sorry if asked already, but does this support off center caps lock?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: trizkut on Wed, 16 December 2015, 22:18:31
Sorry if asked already, but does this support off center caps lock?

PCB supports it, but the provided plates won't.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: alienman82 on Wed, 16 December 2015, 22:42:32
Sorry if asked already, but does this support off center caps lock?

PCB supports it, but the provided plates won't.

thank you
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 17 December 2015, 05:14:08
A question for Matt3o here;

Have elected to purchase a Complete WhiteFox using all CherryMX Clears but it needs to be assembled.  Hence paid for that 'service' to have it completely finished ready to be connected to a PC.

Would you know who will be responsible for the construction of this keyboard ?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Thu, 17 December 2015, 05:26:41
Would you know who will be responsible for the construction of this keyboard ?

an assembly service.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 17 December 2015, 06:19:32
Would you know who will be responsible for the construction of this keyboard ?

an assembly service.

Whom or where is it located?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: cswanic on Thu, 17 December 2015, 06:22:16
We all know where, we don't know whom :))
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Thu, 17 December 2015, 07:03:35
China. I don't know them personally... I guess there will be some Wu and some Lee.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: pandaaqq on Thu, 17 December 2015, 07:50:32
Just to clarify, everyone who is in batch 1 (even when ordered later on, just changed to batch 1 because someone cancelled) will get the special edition? That's amazing!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: swimmingbird on Thu, 17 December 2015, 07:52:39
Just to clarify, everyone who is in batch 1 (even when ordered later on, just changed to batch 1 because someone cancelled) will get the special edition? That's amazing!

I don't think there is a special edition at the moment - from what I've seen and read there will be no difference between the keyboards produced for batch 1 and batch 2
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 17 December 2015, 08:11:48
China. I don't know them personally... I guess there will be some Wu and some Lee.

Brilliant, at least don't get any South Koreans involved (GON excluded here), already know what they're like when it comes to waiting for any keyboards.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: stoic-lemon on Thu, 17 December 2015, 08:13:51
China. I don't know them personally... I guess there will be some Wu and some Lee.

Brilliant, at least don't get any South Koreans involved here, already know what they're like when it comes to waiting for any keyboards.

Best set of exchanges I've seen on here in a while.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Thu, 17 December 2015, 08:52:07
Just to clarify, everyone who is in batch 1 (even when ordered later on, just changed to batch 1 because someone cancelled) will get the special edition? That's amazing!

Just to clarify, everyone who is in batch 1 (even when ordered later on, just changed to batch 1 because someone cancelled) will get the special edition? That's amazing!

I don't think there is a special edition at the moment - from what I've seen and read there will be no difference between the keyboards produced for batch 1 and batch 2

there's not a "special edition" per se. First batch is considered limited edition, though.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: profet on Thu, 17 December 2015, 09:25:33
Just to clarify, everyone who is in batch 1 (even when ordered later on, just changed to batch 1 because someone cancelled) will get the special edition? That's amazing!

Just to clarify, everyone who is in batch 1 (even when ordered later on, just changed to batch 1 because someone cancelled) will get the special edition? That's amazing!

I don't think there is a special edition at the moment - from what I've seen and read there will be no difference between the keyboards produced for batch 1 and batch 2

there's not a "special edition" per se. First batch is considered limited edition, though.

I guess the confusion is this:   What makes the first batch "limited edition."

How can one tell the difference between a first batch keyboard and second batch other than arrival time?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Thu, 17 December 2015, 10:10:53

I guess the confusion is this:   What makes the first batch "limited edition."


the fact that there are only 1000 of them :)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Zorberema on Thu, 17 December 2015, 10:16:24

I guess the confusion is this:   What makes the first batch "limited edition."


the fact that there are only 1000 of them :)

Sounds limited enough to me  :)) I'm happy to be in the first batch; thank you for designing this awesome board! :)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: profet on Thu, 17 December 2015, 10:17:30

I guess the confusion is this:   What makes the first batch "limited edition."


the fact that there are only 1000 of them :)

Until the second batch is made... then they are just... "old"  ?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Thu, 17 December 2015, 10:22:50

I guess the confusion is this:   What makes the first batch "limited edition."


the fact that there are only 1000 of them :)

Until the second batch is made... then they are just... "old"  ?

the first love is the one you never forget :)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: profet on Thu, 17 December 2015, 10:26:46

I guess the confusion is this:   What makes the first batch "limited edition."


the fact that there are only 1000 of them :)

And don't get me wrong... this board looks amazing. I just hate the term "limited edition" As unless we're talking about virtual goods, there is a finite amount of everything.
So unless there is something special about the first batch, silk screening, caps, something, then its not really limited edition. It's just first run edition.


Until the second batch is made... then they are just... "old"  ?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: loki993 on Thu, 17 December 2015, 11:35:44
I wanted one of these but I didn't have the money. Also its hard to justify the money for the second batch only to have to wait 6 months to get it. Really think it would have been better to do another drop the beginning of the year maybe.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Fri, 18 December 2015, 10:57:50
I made a quick video on how to correctly mount costar stabilizers

Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: mashby on Fri, 18 December 2015, 16:08:33
Just realized I've been doing it wrong. I always attached the inserts in the key and then fought it onto the stab. Your method is much easier *mind blown*
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: user 18 on Fri, 18 December 2015, 16:37:21
I made a quick video on how to correctly mount costar stabilizers


Making a note of this -- this is the way I've always done it, but I've quite often done a poor job of explaining it with words alone. Makes things so much easier than other ways of dealing with costars.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Lunatique on Sat, 19 December 2015, 14:59:55
I'm very tempted by the White Fox, but in order to justify it when I already have the Leopold FC660 (which I love), I'll need to make sure the programmable aspect is indeed able to do what I need.

I posted this question at the input.club forum, but it's very slow there, so I'll ask here too:

I use TouchCursor for programming navigation onto the home row so when Im writing, I can quickly navigate without leaving the home row. Im contemplating whether to get the White Fox, and I think its only worth it if I can program it to do the same with the configurator firmware. So Id like to know how I would go about doing these macros with the online configurator (I looked at it and read the forum threads, but still cant figure it out).

The simple stuff is easy, such as programming I, K, J, L to become the arrow keys when an activation key is held down. But there doesnt seem to be a way do combo keys macro, such as programming the M key to perform CTRL+LeftArrow, and the , key to perform CTRL+RightArrow. Basically any macro combos with two or more keys doesnt seem possible, or it isnt clear how to do it with the online configurator.

Also, if I want to designate a key to be the fn key, what am I supposed to do? And once I make it the fn key, does that mean its original function is now lost? So let's say I make the right-control key the fn key, does it then become just the fn key and can no longer perform the control function?

What if I want to use a key as the fn/activation key only when I hold it down (such as how it works in TouchCursor, where I can hold down the spacebar and it becomes the activation/fn key only when held down, but if I simply tap it, it behaves like a normal spacebar)?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Lain1911 on Sat, 19 December 2015, 20:20:28
I just wanted to congratulate you on the success of the White Fox and even though I'm not getting one right now I am impressed with your creation. Any ideas if there will be other versions such as a 75% like a Keycool layout etc?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Sun, 20 December 2015, 03:47:57
I just wanted to congratulate you on the success of the White Fox and even though I'm not getting one right now I am impressed with your creation. Any ideas if there will be other versions such as a 75% like a Keycool layout etc?

too early to say, there will be more keyboards for sure, don't know yet about the layout.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: mtdr on Sun, 20 December 2015, 09:42:30
Would you know who will be responsible for the construction of this keyboard ?

an assembly service.

Hey Matt3o, I just got into this whole world of mechanical keyboards, but man what an exciting time to join the community  :) I immediately grabbed a TrueFox :thumb:

My question is regarding the assembly service, I have done some soldering before but I don't have a soldering kit anymore, so I decided to just go for the assembled option. But for what I know, bad soldering can mess up the switches, so I'm a little worried about that. Do you vouch for this assembly service? Or should I just go and get the normal kit and assemble it myself? I would have to get myself a soldering kit and some practice since I'm a little rusty in that regard but I would rather do that if the assembly service is not expected to do a good work at it. Might even be fun, little DIY project.

Your thoughts?

Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Sun, 20 December 2015, 12:16:11
Would you know who will be responsible for the construction of this keyboard ?

an assembly service.

Hey Matt3o, I just got into this whole world of mechanical keyboards, but man what an exciting time to join the community  :) I immediately grabbed a TrueFox :thumb:

My question is regarding the assembly service, I have done some soldering before but I don't have a soldering kit anymore, so I decided to just go for the assembled option. But for what I know, bad soldering can mess up the switches, so I'm a little worried about that. Do you vouch for this assembly service? Or should I just go and get the normal kit and assemble it myself? I would have to get myself a soldering kit and some practice since I'm a little rusty in that regard but I would rather do that if the assembly service is not expected to do a good work at it. Might even be fun, little DIY project.

Your thoughts?

I suggest to anyone who already has a soldering iron to go with the kit and assemble the keyboard at home.

If you plan on buying a soldering kit anyway (say you want to do more custom keyboards in the future), go ahead and grab the kit.

If you none of the above is true, go for the assembly service.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Elrick on Sun, 20 December 2015, 16:39:07
If you none of the above is true, go for the assembly service.

For me personally, all those small parts being the switches, SMDs and leds are so small I can't even see them with my own eyes without using a large Magnifying Glass.

Plus my hands aren't built to play around with microscopic hardware, hence the assembly service is ideal for ugly Rock Apes  8) .
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: sordna on Sun, 20 December 2015, 19:35:01

Customizing your layout is super easy thank to the online configurator (http://input.club/configurator). Cross platform, web based. Design your keyboard and download the compiled firmware, ready to be flashed.

Hi, 65% is the sweet spot in compact keyboards, the fc660[cm] got it almost right except no PgUp/PgDn, yours is perfect. Very tempted to join the MD drop. Some questions if you could answer:

1. The online configurator only seems to show the Aria layout. Will the others be added ?
2. While using the keyboard how do you access layers 2, 3, etc ?
3. How do you access Pause, Scroll Lock, etc keys ? Is there a "default" firmware that has a 2nd layer with an image of the assignments we can see ?
4. Which one is the FN key and which one is the Windows key? How do you momentarily access a layer in the winkeyless version (to hit Home or End for example) ?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Mon, 21 December 2015, 05:28:19

Customizing your layout is super easy thank to the online configurator (http://input.club/configurator). Cross platform, web based. Design your keyboard and download the compiled firmware, ready to be flashed.

Hi, 65% is the sweet spot in compact keyboards, the fc660[cm] got it almost right except no PgUp/PgDn, yours is perfect. Very tempted to join the MD drop. Some questions if you could answer:

1. The online configurator only seems to show the Aria layout. Will the others be added ?
2. While using the keyboard how do you access layers 2, 3, etc ?
3. How do you access Pause, Scroll Lock, etc keys ? Is there a "default" firmware that has a 2nd layer with an image of the assignments we can see ?
4. Which one is the FN key and which one is the Windows key? How do you momentarily access a layer in the winkeyless version (to hit Home or End for example) ?

1. All layouts will be supported of course
2. The mock-ups you see on massdrop are just to show you the keyboard layout, not the actual per-key position. You'll need an FN key for each layer you want
3. There's a default firmware, but you most likely need to flash your own
4. winkeyless is a bit up to you. You could probably set one of the right hand modifier as FN, I personally like the FN key in lieu of the Caps Lock. That's really the charm of this keyboard, you can do whatever you want with the layers.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Mon, 21 December 2015, 13:47:06
I took the time to write the official WhiteFox FAQ

Find it here: http://matt3o.com/whitefox-faq

In the coming days I'll set up a proper website with info and tutorials. Have fun!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: FLFisherman on Mon, 21 December 2015, 13:50:50
I took the time to write the official WhiteFox FAQ

Find it here: http://matt3o.com/whitefox-faq

In the coming days I'll set up a proper website with info and tutorials. Have fun!

You linked to the wrong item on Massdrop, matt3o.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: V1ral on Mon, 21 December 2015, 14:06:09
You linked to the wrong item on Massdrop, matt3o.

He's trying to drop a hint.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: FLFisherman on Mon, 21 December 2015, 14:08:29
You linked to the wrong item on Massdrop, matt3o.

He's trying to drop a hint.

Buy topre keycaps for his MX board? XD
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Mon, 21 December 2015, 16:54:46
You linked to the wrong item on Massdrop, matt3o.

He's trying to drop a hint.

Buy topre keycaps for his MX board? XD

that's what happens when you work on 20 projects at the same time :) sorry, fixed.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: sordna on Mon, 21 December 2015, 20:00:11

3. There's a default firmware, but you most likely need to flash your own

Is there a picture anywhere that shows the FN layer of the default firmware ?

Also, hmm, would it be possible for me to install a buzzer on this keyboard to make it click ? Check out how I did it on my ergodox; I'm kind of hooked on this feature!

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.msg840977#msg840977
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.msg1046607#msg1046607
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: queefmonchan on Mon, 21 December 2015, 21:02:07
Hey Matt3o, will the production PCB be the same as the one pictured in the promo pics? More specifically, will the PCB that we receive have the mounting holes for pcb mounted cherry stabs like the one in the pictures? Thanks! ;D
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: STARLORDCOFFEE on Tue, 22 December 2015, 02:22:28

Best set of exchanges I've seen on here in a while.
[/quote]

Off Topic but I just had to comment on your location...Saitama. Don't know if you are familiar with One Punch Man, it is so legit.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: stoic-lemon on Tue, 22 December 2015, 04:11:14

Best set of exchanges I've seen on here in a while.

Off Topic but I just had to comment on your location...Saitama. Don't know if you are familiar with One Punch Man, it is so legit.
[/quote]

Haha yeah. I am familiar with the name only.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Tue, 22 December 2015, 04:47:53

3. There's a default firmware, but you most likely need to flash your own

Is there a picture anywhere that shows the FN layer of the default firmware ?

Also, hmm, would it be possible for me to install a buzzer on this keyboard to make it click ? Check out how I did it on my ergodox; I'm kind of hooked on this feature!

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.msg840977#msg840977
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.msg1046607#msg1046607

I'll post the final layout in the coming days (we made few changes recently).

It should be possible to add the buzzer... not completely sure, have to check.

Hey Matt3o, will the production PCB be the same as the one pictured in the promo pics? More specifically, will the PCB that we receive have the mounting holes for pcb mounted cherry stabs like the one in the pictures? Thanks! ;D

yes, the PCB supports PCB mounted cherry stabs (as per the FAQ :P )
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Hexterdude on Tue, 22 December 2015, 04:49:07
When do you think a bluetooth version of the whitefox will be released?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Tue, 22 December 2015, 05:09:01
When do you think a bluetooth version of the whitefox will be released?

I'm working on that, but it really takes years to design something like that in the spare time. I hope to be able to get a first PCB prototype in Q1 2016... then the case... then looking for manufacturers...
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Hexterdude on Tue, 22 December 2015, 05:13:09
When do you think a bluetooth version of the whitefox will be released?

I'm working on that, but it really takes years to design something like that in the spare time. I hope to be able to get a first PCB prototype in Q1 2016... then the case... then looking for manufacturers...

Awesome, i'm really looking forward to it! Do you plan for it to just be bluetooth or also wired compatible?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Tue, 22 December 2015, 05:32:23
When do you think a bluetooth version of the whitefox will be released?

I'm working on that, but it really takes years to design something like that in the spare time. I hope to be able to get a first PCB prototype in Q1 2016... then the case... then looking for manufacturers...

Awesome, i'm really looking forward to it! Do you plan for it to just be bluetooth or also wired compatible?

not sure about that yet. depends on complexity. it will be powered by usb for sure, but connection could still be BT only.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: MrRooks on Tue, 22 December 2015, 09:13:39
I wish the 1u top row layout didn't have that unsightly gap in the bottom row. :( Making my choice quite difficult. Might have to go with a custom plate.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: qwack on Tue, 22 December 2015, 09:24:20
It's not unsightly, it's ergonomic ;D But you can either make a custom plate, or file down the one you'll get since the PCB itself supports all switch positions.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: MrRooks on Tue, 22 December 2015, 09:27:50
...ergonomic...

 :))
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: qwack on Tue, 22 December 2015, 09:38:12
Honestly I find the six 1u-keys in a row on my Pure Pro a bit annoying, so I completely understand the choice to leave a gap between the 1.25u mods and the arrow keys on most layouts.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: queefmonchan on Tue, 22 December 2015, 11:04:47

yes, the PCB supports PCB mounted cherry stabs (as per the FAQ :P )

Thanks for the reply  :thumb: I looked at the FAQ but it figures that I would miss that..
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Tue, 22 December 2015, 11:07:17

yes, the PCB supports PCB mounted cherry stabs (as per the FAQ :p )

Thanks for the reply  :thumb: I looked at the FAQ but it figures that I would miss that..


This is very good, it is a pain to remove keycaps with Costar stabilizers.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Tue, 22 December 2015, 11:22:16

yes, the PCB supports PCB mounted cherry stabs (as per the FAQ :p )

Thanks for the reply  :thumb: I looked at the FAQ but it figures that I would miss that..


This is very good, it is a pain to remove keycaps with Costar stabilizers.

pain is good. pain makes you stronger.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: mtdr on Tue, 22 December 2015, 19:55:37
Question for the more experienced. Would a Weller WP25 be enough to put this keyboard together, diodes, switches and LEDs?

http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WP25-Professional-25Watts-Soldering/dp/B000B63BTU/ref=sr_1_7?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1344112191&sr=1-7&keywords=Weller+soldering+iron (http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WP25-Professional-25Watts-Soldering/dp/B000B63BTU/ref=sr_1_7?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1344112191&sr=1-7&keywords=Weller+soldering+iron)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Tue, 22 December 2015, 19:58:37
Question for the more experienced. Would a Weller WP25 be enough to put this keyboard together, diodes, switches and LEDs?

http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WP25-Professional-25Watts-Soldering/dp/B000B63BTU/ref=sr_1_7?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1344112191&sr=1-7&keywords=Weller+soldering+iron (http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WP25-Professional-25Watts-Soldering/dp/B000B63BTU/ref=sr_1_7?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1344112191&sr=1-7&keywords=Weller+soldering+iron)


In my experience the ax tip works better than the conic one for SMD, but for pass through components you may be ok with pretty much any soldering iron.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: user 18 on Tue, 22 December 2015, 20:23:54
Question for the more experienced. Would a Weller WP25 be enough to put this keyboard together, diodes, switches and LEDs?

http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WP25-Professional-25Watts-Soldering/dp/B000B63BTU/ref=sr_1_7?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1344112191&sr=1-7&keywords=Weller+soldering+iron (http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WP25-Professional-25Watts-Soldering/dp/B000B63BTU/ref=sr_1_7?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1344112191&sr=1-7&keywords=Weller+soldering+iron)


In my experience the ax tip works better than the conic one for SMD, but for pass through components you may be ok with pretty much any soldering iron.

All the SMD stuff is presoldered for this one, aren't they? So all that would need to be soldered is through-hole switches and LEDs (assuming you got a barebones or a kit).
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Tue, 22 December 2015, 20:29:45
Question for the more experienced. Would a Weller WP25 be enough to put this keyboard together, diodes, switches and LEDs?

http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WP25-Professional-25Watts-Soldering/dp/B000B63BTU/ref=sr_1_7?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1344112191&sr=1-7&keywords=Weller+soldering+iron (http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WP25-Professional-25Watts-Soldering/dp/B000B63BTU/ref=sr_1_7?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1344112191&sr=1-7&keywords=Weller+soldering+iron)


In my experience the ax tip works better than the conic one for SMD, but for pass through components you may be ok with pretty much any soldering iron.

All the SMD stuff is presoldered for this one, aren't they? So all that would need to be soldered is through-hole switches and LEDs (assuming you got a barebones or a kit).


Pass-through components are very easy to solder.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Wed, 23 December 2015, 01:59:50
Question for the more experienced. Would a Weller WP25 be enough to put this keyboard together, diodes, switches and LEDs?

http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WP25-Professional-25Watts-Soldering/dp/B000B63BTU/ref=sr_1_7?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1344112191&sr=1-7&keywords=Weller+soldering+iron (http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WP25-Professional-25Watts-Soldering/dp/B000B63BTU/ref=sr_1_7?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1344112191&sr=1-7&keywords=Weller+soldering+iron)

looks fine to me. you may also consider this http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WLC100-40-Watt-Soldering-Station/dp/B000AS28UC/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1450857501&sr=1-1&keywords=WLC100
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: n__dles on Wed, 23 December 2015, 11:25:56
If I were to change the switches on my order which is in the first batch, would it be moved to the second batch?
looks fine to me. you may also consider this http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WLC100-40-Watt-Soldering-Station/dp/B000AS28UC/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1450857501&sr=1-1&keywords=WLC100
Not to start a soldering iron flame war, but: I have a Hakko FX888D and my dad has a Weller WLC100. I think the extra $50 for the Hakko is money well spent, especially if you plan on doing more than just keyboards.

Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: mtdr on Wed, 23 December 2015, 11:43:16
If I were to change the switches on my order which is in the first batch, would it be moved to the second batch?
looks fine to me. you may also consider this http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WLC100-40-Watt-Soldering-Station/dp/B000AS28UC/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1450857501&sr=1-1&keywords=WLC100
Not to start a soldering iron flame war, but: I have a Hakko FX888D and my dad has a Weller WLC100. I think the extra $50 for the Hakko is money well spent, especially if you plan on doing more than just keyboards.

I actually did look at the Hakko FX888D and the Weller WLC100. The FX888D looks nice but its a little bit overboard for me, specially for me that I'm just getting started with all of this, looking for something more entry-level. Compared the WLC100 to WP25, and while having the station is a plus It seems like the WP25 is just a better built iron, more solid iron than the WLC100 iron. Whatever I buy I want it to last since I plan on doing more custom keyboard builds in the future, so I think I'll just go for the WP25. If I ever find that not being enough then I think I will go for the Hakko FX888D.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: senso on Wed, 23 December 2015, 11:49:21
Go straight to a temperature controlled/regulated iron, you don't need to spend twice to get there.
An FX888D is cheap in US compared to the dumb price that they ask for it in Europe(in Portugal it costs over 150..), and buy a chisel tip with 2-2.5mm wide, perfect for everything, and maybe a conical with 3-4mm for big ground planes when you need to solder a big socket/connect, the added thermal mass is a gods given.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Wed, 23 December 2015, 11:53:13
If I were to change the switches on my order which is in the first batch, would it be moved to the second batch?
looks fine to me. you may also consider this http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WLC100-40-Watt-Soldering-Station/dp/B000AS28UC/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1450857501&sr=1-1&keywords=WLC100 (http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WLC100-40-Watt-Soldering-Station/dp/B000AS28UC/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1450857501&sr=1-1&keywords=WLC100)
Not to start a soldering iron flame war, but: I have a Hakko FX888D and my dad has a Weller WLC100. I think the extra $50 for the Hakko is money well spent, especially if you plan on doing more than just keyboards.


As the fellow said, there is no intention to go into a debate on soldering irons, but, it is very important to understand that soldering pass through components is extremely easy, that any reasonable well made iron will do the job. If I were you I'd save the extra $50 to get more keyboard related stuff, for example, a modifiers set. But, it is your money, it is your call.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Wed, 23 December 2015, 12:37:42
I started with a $8 15W iron and I was perfectly fine with it. Later I bought a soldering station but only because I started doing some serious stuff.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: mtdr on Wed, 23 December 2015, 13:21:09
Alright, thank you all for your input. I think I'm definitely set on the Weller WP25 then. It looks like a solid, well built 25W iron that will last me for a lot of time and that's what I'm looking for, not something cheap that will break after several uses or months, and not high-end that I will regret overspending on it when I don't use it to it's full potential.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: n__dles on Wed, 23 December 2015, 18:28:22
I started with a $8 15W iron and I was perfectly fine with it. Later I bought a soldering station but only because I started doing some serious stuff.
I could have been clearer. The Weller is more than sufficient for keyboards, if there's little chance of needing it for any other use, buy it.

As senso said the extra $50 buys an under priced, high quality iron that doesn't have to replaced for more complicated things.

P.S.
Is changing the switches on my order going to be a big inconvenience for you all / cause it to be shifted to the 2nd batch? Thanks.

Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: mtdr on Wed, 23 December 2015, 19:23:02
P.S.
Is changing the switches on my order going to be a big inconvenience for you all / cause it to be shifted to the 2nd batch? Thanks.

No, it does not. Just Edit the order and leave the fulfillment time as it already is, and change the switch type and Save, it will leave your order on the first batch. I did that before.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Thu, 24 December 2015, 01:00:19
the inconvenience is when you shift from second to first batch, but if you are already in batch 1, go for it.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Thu, 24 December 2015, 03:17:22
Zealio switches might (I said *might*) be available again tomorrow. Stay tuned and happy foxy Christmas!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: sordna on Thu, 24 December 2015, 15:06:32
Any chance of the drop getting extended? It would help the 2nd batch grow as it's only 181 units compared to 1000 of the first :-)

Hmm, so this keyboard doesn't have a Teensy right? With my original ergodox a was able to wire a 2KHz buzzer (sparkfun part number COM-07950) to D5 and GND of the teensy, add for 4 lines of code to the firmware and get a "click" sound out of my linear reds. Superb typing experience, helps avoid bottom out while keys are smooth and linear.

I wish the Whitefox had a provision to allow this... maybe even room in the PCB/case to fit the (12mm wide / 9mm tall) buzzer.

Would that be possible in a future iteration ?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Lunatique on Thu, 24 December 2015, 15:26:01
Can you guys tell me if I might like the purple Zealios (and which weight to get)? I prefer a really sharp tactile bump (and prefer low noise) instead of the subtle bump of the Cherry MX browns, clears, etc. Out of all the switches I've tried and keyboards I own, I think the most pronounced tactile bump is probably the Matias quiet switch and the Topre 55g. The Matias is a bit scratchy/rough, while the Topre is very smooth and refined, with the bump at the top of the stroke and a sharp collapse of the dome (which feels very nice).

I currently have the Gateron brown assembled ordered, but I've never tried the Gateron brown switch either. I only read that it's like a smoother Cherry MX brown with a slightly sharper bump. I'm not even sure if the tactile bump is significant enough, since all the Cherry MX switches feel like the bumps are too soft to me. I like a REALLY SHARP tactile bump that won't become indistinguishable once you start typing at moderate speeds.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: braidn on Fri, 25 December 2015, 11:47:06
Can you guys tell me if I might like the purple Zealios (and which weight to get)? I prefer a really sharp tactile bump (and prefer low noise) instead of the subtle bump of the Cherry MX browns, clears, etc. Out of all the switches I've tried and keyboards I own, I think the most pronounced tactile bump is probably the Matias quiet switch and the Topre 55g. The Matias is a bit scratchy/rough, while the Topre is very smooth and refined, with the bump at the top of the stroke and a sharp collapse of the dome (which feels very nice).

I currently have the Gateron brown assembled ordered, but I've never tried the Gateron brown switch either. I only read that it's like a smoother Cherry MX brown with a slightly sharper bump. I'm not even sure if the tactile bump is significant enough, since all the Cherry MX switches feel like the bumps are too soft to me. I like a REALLY SHARP tactile bump that won't become indistinguishable once you start typing at moderate speeds.

Sharpest Zealios to me are the 67's. They feel a lot like 45g topre HHKB switches. Not the same but close
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteF
Post by: braidn on Fri, 25 December 2015, 11:48:25
Does anyone k ow the type of fewt that are bundled with this? They look a smidgen wider than Gon's feet. Was wondering because I want a to pick up a pair for another build and they look perfect.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Fri, 25 December 2015, 14:03:25
Does anyone k ow the type of fewt that are bundled with this? They look a smidgen wider than Gon's feet. Was wondering because I want a to pick up a pair for another build and they look perfect.

they are custom made.
Sharpest Zealios to me are the 67's. They feel a lot like 45g topre HHKB switches. Not the same but close
[/quote]

this. not. :P
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Lunatique on Fri, 25 December 2015, 14:25:56
Sharpest Zealios to me are the 67's. They feel a lot like 45g topre HHKB switches. Not the same but close

this. not. :P

So which switch would you recommend? I just want a switch that is as tactile as possible, with as little noise as possible, but not ridiculously heavy since I have no need to train my fingers--I just want to type smoothly and without error.

My current favorite switches are probably the Topre 55g and 45g. I like the Cherry MX blues and greens for the times when I want some noise to feel festive while I type, but I prefer quiet if I had to choose. :D Buckling spring is the king of all clicky, but when I don't want the noise it can grate on the nerves a bit.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Steezus on Fri, 25 December 2015, 14:53:46
Sharpest Zealios to me are the 67's. They feel a lot like 45g topre HHKB switches. Not the same but close

this. not. :P

So which switch would you recommend? I just want a switch that is as tactile as possible, with as little noise as possible, but not ridiculously heavy since I have no need to train my fingers--I just want to type smoothly and without error.

My current favorite switches are probably the Topre 55g and 45g. I like the Cherry MX blues and greens for the times when I want some noise to feel festive while I type, but I prefer quiet if I had to choose. :D Buckling spring is the king of all clicky, but when I don't want the noise it can grate on the nerves a bit.

If you want tactility but for it to be quiet then I would recommend a Zealios variant that is lubed. When you lube the switches it tends to dampen the noise quiet a bit. The plate material matters significantly but since there aren't didn't options provided in that aspect then your best bet is to lube the switches and add o-rings if it isn't quiet enough for you.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: qwack on Fri, 25 December 2015, 14:54:35
Tactile + no click : get Blues and jailhouse them!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Steezus on Fri, 25 December 2015, 15:06:51
Tactile + no click : get Blues and jailhouse them!

Jailhouse Blues is yet another option, however some people may not like it since the actuation is sooner than normal mx blues.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Lunatique on Fri, 25 December 2015, 15:16:10
If you want tactility but for it to be quiet then I would recommend a Zealios variant that is lubed. When you lube the switches it tends to dampen the noise quiet a bit. The plate material matters significantly but since there aren't didn't options provided in that aspect then your best bet is to lube the switches and add o-rings if it isn't quiet enough for you.

Are the stock Zealios louder than normal Cherry MX clears? If not, I'm not going to worry about it, since non-clicky Cherry MXs are quiet enough to not bother me. And is the 67g purple Zealios the most tactile out of all the options in this White Fox drop by a significant margin? If it's only slightly more tactile than the Gateron browns, then I'd rather not bother with having to solder them myself and pay more--I'd rather just stick to the assembled Gateron browns.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Steezus on Fri, 25 December 2015, 15:25:08
If you want tactility but for it to be quiet then I would recommend a Zealios variant that is lubed. When you lube the switches it tends to dampen the noise quiet a bit. The plate material matters significantly but since there aren't didn't options provided in that aspect then your best bet is to lube the switches and add o-rings if it isn't quiet enough for you.

Are the stock Zealios louder than normal Cherry MX clears? If not, I'm not going to worry about it, since non-clicky Cherry MXs are quiet enough to not bother me. And is the 67g purple Zealios the most tactile out of all the options in this White Fox drop by a significant margin? If it's only slightly more tactile than the Gateron browns, then I'd rather not bother with having to solder them myself and pay more--I'd rather just stick to the assembled Gateron browns.

I wouldn't really consider the Zealios to be louder than stock mx clears. However the only comparison that I have at the moment is 62g Zealios on an acrylic plate vs stock mx clears on a steel plate(Pok3r). The Zealios will definitely be a lot more tactile than gateron browns. Browns are a mix of linear and tactility, the bump is barely noticeable where the Zealios is similar to an ergo-clear which is like a mx clear with with brown springs.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Lunatique on Fri, 25 December 2015, 15:29:28
I wouldn't really consider the Zealios to be louder than stock mx clears. However the only comparison that I have at the moment is 62g Zealios on an acrylic plate vs stock mx clears on a steel plate(Pok3r). The Zealios will definitely be a lot more tactile than gateron browns. Browns are a mix of linear and tactility, the bump is barely noticeable where the Zealios is similar to an ergo-clear which is like a mx clear with with brown springs.

It seems the purple Zealios (particularly 65g and 67g) are hyped a lot right now, especially that they are short in supply. But objectively, how do they actually compare to Topre 55g and 45g or Matias quiet switch?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Steezus on Fri, 25 December 2015, 17:48:02
I wouldn't really consider the Zealios to be louder than stock mx clears. However the only comparison that I have at the moment is 62g Zealios on an acrylic plate vs stock mx clears on a steel plate(Pok3r). The Zealios will definitely be a lot more tactile than gateron browns. Browns are a mix of linear and tactility, the bump is barely noticeable where the Zealios is similar to an ergo-clear which is like a mx clear with with brown springs.

It seems the purple Zealios (particularly 65g and 67g) are hyped a lot right now, especially that they are short in supply. But objectively, how do they actually compare to Topre 55g and 45g or Matias quiet switch?

Sorry that's where I'm of no use, I have never typed on a topre or alps board before so I can't really help there. I'm a huge MX fan myself. :thumb:
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Sat, 26 December 2015, 10:23:38
I wouldn't really consider the Zealios to be louder than stock mx clears. However the only comparison that I have at the moment is 62g Zealios on an acrylic plate vs stock mx clears on a steel plate(Pok3r). The Zealios will definitely be a lot more tactile than gateron browns. Browns are a mix of linear and tactility, the bump is barely noticeable where the Zealios is similar to an ergo-clear which is like a mx clear with with brown springs.

It seems the purple Zealios (particularly 65g and 67g) are hyped a lot right now, especially that they are short in supply. But objectively, how do they actually compare to Topre 55g and 45g or Matias quiet switch?

comparing zealios or cherry mx to topre is impossible. I can say oranges and apples are both fruits, but that's about it.

to me 45g topre are closer to linear than they are to tactile switches. 55g topre have a more tactile feeling, but it's a very smooth curve, while cherry/zealios have more of a "bump".

really you can't compare them, you are gonna be disappointed if you search the same topre feeling.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Lunatique on Sat, 26 December 2015, 15:38:09

comparing zealios or cherry mx to topre is impossible. I can say oranges and apples are both fruits, but that's about it.

to me 45g topre are closer to linear than they are to tactile switches. 55g topre have a more tactile feeling, but it's a very smooth curve, while cherry/zealios have more of a "bump".

really you can't compare them, you are gonna be disappointed if you search the same topre feeling.

If only comparing the Zealios purples to Cherry MX stock clears, are the Zealios significantly sharper in the tactile feel? If it's only marginally more tactile, then I'd rather just stick to an assembled option, since I suck at soldering and would rather not spend the time or the extra money for very subtle differences I can barely feel.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Sat, 26 December 2015, 16:31:52
I have here in front of me mx clear and zealios purple 65. They are very close, with cherry been a pinch crispier and zealios smoother. As per tactile feeling and stiffness they are very close. If you think you are not up to the soldering task, go for mx clear and save some bucks in the process. you would hardly feel the difference anyway.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Lunatique on Sat, 26 December 2015, 16:57:27
I have here in front of me mx clear and zealios purple 65. They are very close, with cherry been a pinch crispier and zealios smoother. As per tactile feeling and stiffness they are very close. If you think you are not up to the soldering task, go for mx clear and save some bucks in the process. you would hardly feel the difference anyway.

Okay, that helps a lot. I've never really been a fan of any MX-mount switch's tactile feel, since the bumps are too subtle and rounded for my taste (I much prefer Topre 55g's sharp collapse, and Matias Quiet's much more pronounced tactile feel. Buckling spring is the king of tactile feel, but way too loud). I've changed my order back to Gateron browns assembled. 

I don't have any Gateron switches, so I might as well give them a try. MX clears feel a bit slower to me than browns, and I like quicker switches. Neither have enough tactile bump for me anyway, so I might as well choose the faster one, and the Gateron browns are supposed to have more tactile feedback and smoother than MX browns-both are good qualities in my book (faster, more tactile feel).
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Sun, 27 December 2015, 10:54:24
Last few hours left!

Thanks everybody! When the drop started I told MD we would have sold 200, they estimated 500 but we will probably end close to 1300!

Now to making some tutorials!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Steezus on Sun, 27 December 2015, 11:26:00
Last few hours left!

Thanks everybody! When the drop started I told MD we would have sold 200, they estimated 500 but we will probably end close to 1300!

Now to making some tutorials!

Congrats Matt3o that is quite the achievement, I didn't think they would surpass 500 myself but it is quite the amazing offer. :thumb:
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Sun, 27 December 2015, 12:01:40
A good deal is a good deal. Congratulations, again.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Goranth on Sun, 27 December 2015, 12:06:34
Last few hours left!

Thanks everybody! When the drop started I told MD we would have sold 200, they estimated 500 but we will probably end close to 1300!

Now to making some tutorials!

Congrats!  Pretty excited to tinker around with it when it comes. 
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: cswanic on Sun, 27 December 2015, 15:26:52
Hoping for perfect PCB production runs for on time scheduling to go with those awesome tutorials.  Just about time to put this one to bed and start on Granite round 4 :p :thumb:
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: vhaarr on Sun, 27 December 2015, 15:45:06
- EDIT: All fixed! -
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Sun, 27 December 2015, 15:47:20
Hi,

Can anyone help me out in getting my hands on a Whitefox?
One problem is I did not notice the massdrop until I came home to my parents town for Christmas.
The other problem is I am out of a job at the moment and dont really have the cash for it.

But what I do have, is hundreds of US dollars worth of Amazon gift cards. I got them as payment for a job years ago, and since I live in Norway I rarely get to use them.

I've used a HHKB Pro2 as a daily driver for, oh, at least 6 years, and I own quite a few others like the Choc Mini, Poker, a couple of Filcos, the old GHSS SIIG Minitouch, all of which have never been used. I also have quite a few old Cherry keyboards with card readers and integrated touchpads, etc.

But the HHKB Pro2 is showing signs of wear, some of the keys are not in tip top shape, and I think within a year or two I will need a new one. And I am not happy with any of the keyboards I have except the HHKB :-P
But man, this Whitefox board looks awesome!

I have a brother who studies in the US, so the keyboard can be shipped to him and he will bring it to Norway.

Would anyone be able to help me out? You get $200 USD in Amazon credit.
The only problem is, you cant get it until I am back from vacation, like 3rd of January.
As you can see I've been a member of GH since 2009.


If you like the HHKB you can get a new key cap set for it, and that solve the problem.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: sordna on Sun, 27 December 2015, 16:40:05

I have a brother who studies in the US, so the keyboard can be shipped to him and he will bring it to Norway.

Would anyone be able to help me out? You get $200 USD in Amazon credit.
The only problem is, you cant get it until I am back from vacation, like 3rd of January.

Why don't you ask your brother to buy it?? Probably he has a credit card, or can buy a prepaid credit card from any pharmacy.

BTW are you offering $200 + whatever the keyboard costs (which is another ~ $200 if you include assembly and tax?)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: vhaarr on Sun, 27 December 2015, 17:46:48
If you like the HHKB you can get a new key cap set for it, and that solve the problem.
I'm on my 4th spacebar already, this isn't about the key caps but the rubber or springs. Anyway it might be possible to repair, I have not studied it yet.

Why don't you ask your brother to buy it?? Probably he has a credit card, or can buy a prepaid credit card from any pharmacy.
He is here in Norway with me for the holidays.

But I've got it sorted now, someone will help me get it :-) So I will just delete my original request.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Mon, 28 December 2015, 00:42:28
1h left! :D
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: sordna on Mon, 28 December 2015, 01:05:45
Question: Have you considered a split spacebar in future versions of the keyboard ? So that the left (or right) can be programmed to do backspace, or shift for example ?  Coming from a Kinesis I can tell you it's great to be able to do more stuff with your thumbs!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Mon, 28 December 2015, 01:45:40
Question: Have you considered a split spacebar in future versions of the keyboard ? So that the left (or right) can be programmed to do backspace, or shift for example ?  Coming from a Kinesis I can tell you it's great to be able to do more stuff with your thumbs!

yes, that is something that I'm pondering for a future release, the problem is the mold for the 3.5u spacebar that I'm not sure it can be done.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: sordna on Mon, 28 December 2015, 02:21:41
Question: Have you considered a split spacebar in future versions of the keyboard ? So that the left (or right) can be programmed to do backspace, or shift for example ?  Coming from a Kinesis I can tell you it's great to be able to do more stuff with your thumbs!

yes, that is something that I'm pondering for a future release, the problem is the mold for the 3.5u spacebar that I'm not sure it can be done.

3.5u for the winkeyless... for other layouts (6.25u spacebar) it would be a 3.25 and a 3. Yeah, equally hard to produce :-(
Unless you split the spacebar into three keys (2.75+1.25+2.25). Or do two 2.75 and leave room in the middle for my buzzer :-)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Mon, 28 December 2015, 17:03:52
okay I've got an heads-up from MD, it seems that many who changed their orders need to re-authorize the paypal transaction. Most are orders from people who changed their orders from gateron to zealio.

so if you don't want to risk losing your whitefox, you have just 8 hours to sort the paypal thing, you should have received an email with all the info otherwise contact MD right away!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 28 December 2015, 17:10:33
you have just 8 hours to sort the paypal thing

This doesn't apply to me obviously, but isn't that a rather short time period?  :eek:
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: xondat on Mon, 28 December 2015, 17:19:57
you have just 8 hours to sort the paypal thing

This doesn't apply to me obviously, but isn't that a rather short time period?  :eek:

That time period is tiny, I don't understand the thinking behind that. :-\
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: FuriousGeorge on Mon, 28 December 2015, 17:21:36
you have just 8 hours to sort the paypal thing

This doesn't apply to me obviously, but isn't that a rather short time period?  :eek:

I think they give you 24 hours to fix payment issues, so from midnight PST to midnight tonight.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 28 December 2015, 19:43:54
you have just 8 hours to sort the paypal thing

This doesn't apply to me obviously, but isn't that a rather short time period?  :eek:

I think they give you 24 hours to fix payment issues, so from midnight PST to midnight tonight.

That makes a lot more sense.  I can think of quite a few scenarios where one wouldn't have a chance to respond in 8 hours.  :eek:
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Tue, 29 December 2015, 04:42:08
Today I received a new test case I asked the manufacturer (we are a bit late I know, but I really wanted to try a thing).

I'm typing on the whitefox since a couple of weeks now and it's absolutely divine, but I would have liked it to be few mm shorter in height so the wrists stay in a more natural position. Please note that we are in the "fanatic" field here, nobody would have probably noticed and the previous case was just fine... but now... ohmy. This is pure heaven. It's like orgasm for your fingers.

This is the case now (left) and before (right).

(http://i.imgur.com/1ZtnGjG.jpg)

This just to show you the level of maniacal research for perfection I'm putting into this thing.

I want to thank once again MD for accepting all my crazy last minute requests.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: stoic-lemon on Tue, 29 December 2015, 06:57:04
This is what keeps you ahead of the curve. Keep doing what you do.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Tue, 29 December 2015, 08:09:34
Today I received a new test case I asked the manufacturer (we are a bit late I know, but I really wanted to try a thing).

I'm typing on the whitefox since a couple of weeks now and it's absolutely divine, but I would have liked it to be few mm shorter in height so the wrists stay in a more natural position. Please note that we are in the "fanatic" field here, nobody would have probably noticed and the previous case was just fine... but now... ohmy. This is pure heaven. It's like orgasm for your fingers.

This is the case now (left) and before (right).

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/1ZtnGjG.jpg)


This just to show you the level of maniacal research for perfection I'm putting into this thing.

I want to thank once again MD for accepting all my crazy last minute requests.


They'd better listen to you; because, it was this level of detail that makes this a successful drop.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: sordna on Tue, 29 December 2015, 13:51:11
Today I received a new test case I asked the manufacturer (we are a bit late I know, but I really wanted to try a thing).

I'm typing on the whitefox since a couple of weeks now and it's absolutely divine, but I would have liked it to be few mm shorter in height so the wrists stay in a more natural position. Please note that we are in the "fanatic" field here, nobody would have probably noticed and the previous case was just fine... but now... ohmy. This is pure heaven. It's like orgasm for your fingers.

This is the case now (left) and before (right).

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/1ZtnGjG.jpg)


This just to show you the level of maniacal research for perfection I'm putting into this thing.

I want to thank once again MD for accepting all my crazy last minute requests.

Thank YOU! The lower the height the better, as you can always raise a keyboard (with feet, etc) but you cannot lower it :-)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: sordna on Tue, 29 December 2015, 15:29:31
Forgot to mention, kudos for making the keyboard flat, not tilted like the MagicForce and most others. Some of us need keyboards to be flat, even with negative tilt sometimes. I place my keyboards as low as possible, and use them without feet.

Unrelated request: Would you be so kind and mention how many keys the keyboard has in the OP, for each layout ? It would be nice to easily refer to this info at a glance.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Tue, 29 December 2015, 15:58:10
Forgot to mention, kudos for making the keyboard flat, not tilted like the MagicForce and most others. Some of us need keyboards to be flat, even with negative tilt sometimes. I place my keyboards as low as possible, and use them without feet.

Unrelated request: Would you be so kind and mention how many keys the keyboard has in the OP, for each layout ? It would be nice to easily refer to this info at a glance.


I also use negative tilt and it is very comfortable. That small detail alone alleviated an incipient case of carpal tunnel syndrome.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: STARLORDCOFFEE on Tue, 29 December 2015, 20:01:03
Got some White Fox pixel art made in case anyone wants it.
 :p
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Wed, 30 December 2015, 01:01:22
Got some White Fox pixel art made in case anyone wants it.
 :p

aaaaw! that is so lovely :)

Forgot to mention, kudos for making the keyboard flat, not tilted like the MagicForce and most others. Some of us need keyboards to be flat, even with negative tilt sometimes. I place my keyboards as low as possible, and use them without feet.

I was actually pondering to make the next run in just one chunk of aluminum (like the MagicForce), but your reasoning totally makes sense and being able to negative-tilt it is a huge plus.

Unrelated request: Would you be so kind and mention how many keys the keyboard has in the OP, for each layout ? It would be nice to easily refer to this info at a glance.

between 67 and 69 I believe. I'll post about it. I'm setting up a blog right now with everything about the whitefox (and other projects of mine)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: sordna on Wed, 30 December 2015, 01:31:46
You know what the best thing would be to add to this keyboard, right? Trackpoint. Maybe you should join forces with lowpoly (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=4917.0) :-)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Wed, 30 December 2015, 01:51:18
You know what the best thing would be to add to this keyboard, right? Trackpoint. Maybe you should join forces with lowpoly (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=4917.0) :-)

I'm not a huge fan of trackpoints especially those in the middle of the keyboard... I'm trying to find the right way to include a pointer device somehow. Maybe a small joypad to the upper right replacing the top-right key.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: RNT on Wed, 30 December 2015, 10:16:45
Hey Matt3o, congrats on the success of the MK.

I got mine in the second batch, is there a possibility that the 314 in the second batch can be delivered earlier since it was planned that 1000 would be for May and now theres 314?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Wed, 30 December 2015, 10:38:29
You know what the best thing would be to add to this keyboard, right? Trackpoint. Maybe you should join forces with lowpoly (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=4917.0) :-)

I'm not a huge fan of trackpoints especially those in the middle of the keyboard... I'm trying to find the right way to include a pointer device somehow. Maybe a small joypad to the upper right replacing the top-right key.


I think most of the people will hesitate to drill a nice OG set just to fit around a track point in the middle of the keyboard. I am a long time user of Thinkpads and I have never got accustomed to use the track point only, while I use it with my Thinkpad when it is in its portable mode, I always look for a regular mouse to do heavy work. The entire idea of a track point as a mouse pointer is not as good as regular mice or pads.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: sordna on Wed, 30 December 2015, 12:56:27
Yes trackpoints are not good enough as a primary input device for heavy work, but their value lies in the fact they ARE in the middle of the keyboard so you don't have to move your hands away from the typing position if you want to move the pointer to click on something.

Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: codywanks on Tue, 05 January 2016, 06:22:18
Got some White Fox pixel art made in case anyone wants it.
 :p

I like how it looks more Aria than True Fox :p

Don't mind if I use it!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: STARLORDCOFFEE on Sat, 09 January 2016, 03:02:11
Tried my hand in them again. Made each layout this time  ;)

(http://i.imgur.com/4eS7LBX.jpg)  Vanilla

(http://i.imgur.com/KooWgZu.jpg) ISO

(http://i.imgur.com/mbrwTGg.jpg) Aria

(http://i.imgur.com/zDwRB5s.jpg) Winkeyless

(http://i.imgur.com/sMSHhb5.jpg) True Fox

(http://i.imgur.com/BukUC6x.jpg) Jack of All Trades
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Troif on Sun, 10 January 2016, 07:33:26
Super nice pixelated layouts. Congratulations @starlordcoffee

About the height, this is super. Those details made the @Matt3o we love. We will follow you (the only thing I do not understand is that you do not like tactile switches much... )
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: mastermachetier on Mon, 11 January 2016, 21:57:26
has the order for this already been put through ? i saw you said it would start before christmas.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Tue, 12 January 2016, 01:50:46
has the order for this already been put through ? i saw you said it would start before christmas.

the gears already started spinning a long ago :)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: SwissFTW on Wed, 13 January 2016, 11:10:05
the gears already started spinning a long ago :)

HYPE!!!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Brammm87 on Wed, 13 January 2016, 13:53:57
has the order for this already been put through ? i saw you said it would start before christmas.

the gears already started spinning a long ago :)

Do you think it would be possible to get production shots? Those would look awesome I think. Is there a place for updates?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: FLFisherman on Wed, 13 January 2016, 13:55:34
Do you think it would be possible to get production shots? Those would look awesome I think. Is there a place for updates?

I think this would be the place for updates. What sort of updates are you waiting on?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Wed, 13 January 2016, 14:46:31
I'll post something regarding the development process in the coming days.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: mastermachetier on Thu, 14 January 2016, 12:56:22
I'll post something regarding the development process in the coming days.

This is exciting. Hopefully the next time geekhack designs something like this I can get in on it :( so sad i missed the whitefox.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Thu, 14 January 2016, 13:07:18
I'll post something regarding the development process in the coming days.

:( so sad i missed the whitefox.

Me too.   :'(
I was all on board and excited, but then holiday shopping got the best of me and had to bail at the last minute. Here's hoping there's a second round.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: piemancoder on Thu, 14 January 2016, 18:47:43
I'll post something regarding the development process in the coming days.

:( so sad i missed the whitefox.

Me too.   :'(
I was all on board and excited, but then holiday shopping got the best of me and had to bail at the last minute. Here's hoping there's a second round.

^ This. So sad I missed out.  :'(   ;_;
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: merlin64 on Thu, 14 January 2016, 22:37:23
I feel ya, I was unsure if it's what I wanted so I waited until the last day, and for some reason or another, I promptly forgot. =(
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Brammm87 on Fri, 15 January 2016, 04:55:26
Do you think it would be possible to get production shots? Those would look awesome I think. Is there a place for updates?

I think this would be the place for updates. What sort of updates are you waiting on?

I'm just generally really interested in technology etc. I'm thinking pictures of the PCB's during construction, milling of cases, moulding of keycaps... They would tell a great story, but I have no idea how realistic those things are.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Fri, 15 January 2016, 07:12:07
Do you think it would be possible to get production shots? Those would look awesome I think. Is there a place for updates?

I think this would be the place for updates. What sort of updates are you waiting on?

I'm just generally really interested in technology etc. I'm thinking pictures of the PCB's during construction, milling of cases, moulding of keycaps... They would tell a great story, but I have no idea how realistic those things are.

Manufacturing facilities do not have staff in excess as to have someone taking pictures and Matt and MD personnel are too far from manufacturing sites as to document the processes, a shot or two maybe, but not an entire documentation.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Brammm87 on Fri, 15 January 2016, 07:52:13
Manufacturing facilities do not have staff in excess as to have someone taking pictures and Matt and MD personnel are too far from manufacturing sites as to document the processes, a shot or two maybe, but not an entire documentation.

Fair enough and I certainly understand. Merely wanted to say that that would be super cool.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: STARLORDCOFFEE on Wed, 20 January 2016, 18:10:59
Final iteration of the White Fox pixel art. IMO they look a lot cleaner now. Thanks jb1830 for helping with these.  :thumb:

Vanilla                (http://i.imgur.com/oM3HJME.png)

ISO                    (http://i.imgur.com/N0NF1HA.png)

Aria                   (http://i.imgur.com/Y4rtbuv.png)

Winkeyless         (http://i.imgur.com/1TniwZ1.png)

True Fox             (http://i.imgur.com/RfQJkHt.png)

Jack of all trades (http://i.imgur.com/LZqkDgf.png)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Steezus on Wed, 20 January 2016, 18:22:55
Final iteration of the White Fox pixel art. IMO they look a lot cleaner now. Thanks jb1830 for helping with these.  :thumb:

Vanilla               
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/oM3HJME.png)


ISO                   
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/N0NF1HA.png)


Aria                   
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Y4rtbuv.png)


Winkeyless         
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/1TniwZ1.png)


True Fox             
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/RfQJkHt.png)


Jack of all trades
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/LZqkDgf.png)


I can't tell a difference from the last post, damn things are so tiny. :p
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Brammm87 on Thu, 21 January 2016, 09:54:32

Aria                   
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Y4rtbuv.png)


Used!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Fri, 22 January 2016, 11:52:47
I published some more info about the development of the WhiteFox http://matt3o.com/whitefox-the-making-of/

Most of it is already available in the first post, but there are some additional nice curiosities you might be interested in.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: thaddeus on Fri, 22 January 2016, 13:47:46
I published some more info about the development of the WhiteFox http://matt3o.com/whitefox-the-making-of/

Most of it is already available in the first post, but there are some additional nice curiosities you might be interested in.

Nice post  :thumb: Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: piemancoder on Fri, 22 January 2016, 14:01:20
I published some more info about the development of the WhiteFox http://matt3o.com/whitefox-the-making-of/

Most of it is already available in the first post, but there are some additional nice curiosities you might be interested in.

Very interesting. I remember how I originally found the Brownfox on DT, and it was what got me interested in building a keyboard.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: radec on Sat, 30 January 2016, 09:07:24
wow, the Whitefox looks great. Sorry for lazy question, but will be available to buy at any point from now?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: hkf on Sat, 30 January 2016, 10:12:29
wow, the Whitefox looks great. Sorry for lazy question, but will be available to buy at any point from now?
Possibly q4 this year
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Sat, 30 January 2016, 10:55:06
wow, the Whitefox looks great. Sorry for lazy question, but will be available to buy at any point from now?
Possibly q4 this year

Yeh...
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: radec on Sat, 30 January 2016, 11:23:45
wow, the Whitefox looks great. Sorry for lazy question, but will be available to buy at any point from now?
Possibly q4 this year

Yeh...

Oh right. Thank you.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Sat, 30 January 2016, 17:06:14
Q4 is when you'd get it considering the usual 3 months production time. The drop might start earlier of course, but anyway that's mere speculation. We don't even know if we are actually going to run more.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Sat, 30 January 2016, 19:33:52
Q4 is when you'd get it considering the usual 3 months production time. The drop might start earlier of course, but anyway that's mere speculation. We don't even know if we are actually going to run more.

Some extra sales would not hurt the manufacturers.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: hkf on Sat, 30 January 2016, 20:26:33
Q4 is when you'd get it considering the usual 3 months production time. The drop might start earlier of course, but anyway that's mere speculation. We don't even know if we are actually going to run more.

If anyone knows it should be you  :D
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Sat, 30 January 2016, 20:30:22
Q4 is when you'd get it considering the usual 3 months production time. The drop might start earlier of course, but anyway that's mere speculation. We don't even know if we are actually going to run more.

If anyone knows it should be you  :D

Tell that to Gateron and selling his caps. ;)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: qwack on Sun, 31 January 2016, 04:50:06
Maybe I remember wrong, but I think it was said the WF would (legitimately) be available from taobao at some point.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Sun, 31 January 2016, 07:53:26
Maybe I remember wrong, but I think it was said the WF would (legitimately) be available from taobao at some point.

yes, that might happen. They asked for permission which we gave. That doesn't mean that I am getting anything from those sales, just that they will sell clones from China with our permission instead of sell anyway without our permission.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: xondat on Sun, 31 January 2016, 08:57:43
Maybe I remember wrong, but I think it was said the WF would (legitimately) be available from taobao at some point.

yes, that might happen. They asked for permission which we gave. That doesn't mean that I am getting anything from those sales, just that they will sell clones from China with our permission instead of sell anyway without our permission.

Clones as in copies or clones as in genuine but not a GB format?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Sun, 31 January 2016, 09:00:15
technically the "WhiteFox" is just the one that I officially endorse. All others are clones.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: sordna on Sun, 31 January 2016, 20:05:01
Is my understanding correct that like the Ergodox, all designs, specs, firmware, etc of the WhiteFox are public and open source?
If that's the case anyone can build them and sell without permission.

Now some open source software has some clauses that you are free to do whatever you wish, as long as you keep the original copyright notice so people can see where it was derived from. Is there such a clause with the WhiteFox , or can people sell it under a different name without any reference to the original name or creator?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Mon, 01 February 2016, 07:45:24
the board is open source and you can do whatever you want with it, but you can't sell it as officially endorsed by me or I:C or Massdrop.

meaning that I do not check on the production process of "clones" so you can't say that you are selling a WhiteFox, just a whitefox clone.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: DAVYtm on Mon, 01 February 2016, 11:18:09
Man I wish I had gotten in on this drop now, especially with all of the new sets coming out having row compatibility (my original concern). Will be watching the aftermarket to try to snag one when the first batch gets shipped :p
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: hkf on Fri, 05 February 2016, 03:13:39
Matteo, you should make an advent calendar to the date of shipping :) Today I caught myself wistfully thinking about 2~months in the future.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: FLFisherman on Fri, 05 February 2016, 06:30:10
Matteo, you should make an advent calendar to the date of shipping :) Today I caught myself wistfully thinking about 2~months in the future.
The waiting is the hardest part. :)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Fri, 05 February 2016, 08:14:47
there are a lot of things left to do for me. Time will fly!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Fri, 05 February 2016, 09:44:55
And, before you know it, round 2 will be here!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Fri, 05 February 2016, 10:28:52
And, before you know it, round 2 will be here!

gooold, oooh yeaah!

Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: codywanks on Mon, 08 February 2016, 07:30:06
yes, that might happen. They asked for permission which we gave. That doesn't mean that I am getting anything from those sales, just that they will sell clones from China with our permission instead of sell anyway without our permission.

Looks like the copies are out already:
Link #1 (http://world.taobao.com/item/525141811930.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.RqypyU#detail)
Link #2 (http://world.taobao.com/item/525213166605.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.RqypyU#detail)

Do these ship immediately or is there a wait involved? Can anyone here translate?

P.S. I'm not buying that sh*t, I already joined the official drop on MD
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: FLFisherman on Mon, 08 February 2016, 07:53:04
yes, that might happen. They asked for permission which we gave. That doesn't mean that I am getting anything from those sales, just that they will sell clones from China with our permission instead of sell anyway without our permission.

Looks like the copies are out already:
Link #1 (http://world.taobao.com/item/525141811930.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.RqypyU#detail)
Link #2 (http://world.taobao.com/item/525213166605.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.RqypyU#detail)

Do these ship immediately or is there a wait involved? Can anyone here translate?

P.S. I'm not buying that sh*t, I already joined the official drop on MD
These are pretty much vendors working as a proxy to get the WhiteFox to customers in China. They'll order as many as they need from the actual group buy, and then distribute them to whoever buys one from their store.

So don't worry. It's not a copy. :D
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Mon, 08 February 2016, 08:20:07
yes, that might happen. They asked for permission which we gave. That doesn't mean that I am getting anything from those sales, just that they will sell clones from China with our permission instead of sell anyway without our permission.

Looks like the copies are out already:
Link #1 (http://world.taobao.com/item/525141811930.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.RqypyU#detail)
Link #2 (http://world.taobao.com/item/525213166605.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.RqypyU#detail)

Do these ship immediately or is there a wait involved? Can anyone here translate?

P.S. I'm not buying that sh*t, I already joined the official drop on MD

the keyboard is not ready, so they can't ship it yet.

Also: 1) they can't use the WF logo. 2) they can't use I:C logo. 3) they can't use our graphics/photos in general.

So yeah technically that is a rip off.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: codywanks on Mon, 08 February 2016, 09:12:49
These are pretty much vendors working as a proxy to get the WhiteFox to customers in China. They'll order as many as they need from the actual group buy, and then distribute them to whoever buys one from their store.

So don't worry. It's not a copy. :D

That's like me paying for 10 units from Massdrop and waiting for others to buy them off me (for what seems like a meagre profit)

Why couldn't the Chinese consumers get them directly from the MD GB?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: FLFisherman on Mon, 08 February 2016, 09:16:01
These are pretty much vendors working as a proxy to get the WhiteFox to customers in China. They'll order as many as they need from the actual group buy, and then distribute them to whoever buys one from their store.

So don't worry. It's not a copy. :D

That's like me paying for 10 units from Massdrop and waiting for others to buy them off me (for what seems like a meagre profit)

Why couldn't the Chinese consumers get them directly from the MD GB?

They could, but shipping would eat them alive (I think).

It's better for a merchant/vendor to get a bulk order and then sell it to locals in China. There will be a markup, but I don't think it's as bad as getting an individual unit shipped. Might also have to do with ease of access or knowledge of the drop. Some people in China may not know about Massdrop or the fact that the WhiteFox is selling (was selling) there.

Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: codywanks on Mon, 08 February 2016, 09:17:34
It's better for a merchant/vendor to get a bulk order and then sell it to locals in China. There will be a markup, but I don't think it's as bad as getting an individual unit shipped. Might also have to do with ease of access or knowledge of the drop. Some people in China may not know about Massdrop or the fact that the WhiteFox is selling (was selling) there.

good points  :thumb:
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: livingspeedbump on Tue, 09 February 2016, 13:44:42
These are pretty much vendors working as a proxy to get the WhiteFox to customers in China. They'll order as many as they need from the actual group buy, and then distribute them to whoever buys one from their store.

So don't worry. It's not a copy. :D

That's like me paying for 10 units from Massdrop and waiting for others to buy them off me (for what seems like a meagre profit)

Why couldn't the Chinese consumers get them directly from the MD GB?

They could, but shipping would eat them alive (I think).

It's better for a merchant/vendor to get a bulk order and then sell it to locals in China. There will be a markup, but I don't think it's as bad as getting an individual unit shipped. Might also have to do with ease of access or knowledge of the drop. Some people in China may not know about Massdrop or the fact that the WhiteFox is selling (was selling) there.

Yeah, this happens a lot too. China actually helps a lot of GBs out in this regard. Jukebox is on Tao Bao, for example. They bought quite a few units i believe.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 02 March 2016, 21:21:17
Is there a photo of the actual final pcb that is being used?

I ask because the photo of the pcb on MD doesn't show support for a stepped capslock despite matt3o saying that it does
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: codywanks on Thu, 03 March 2016, 16:41:23
Hey matt3o, dumb question: How does one adjust the LED brightness on the Whitefox using FN+1 and FN+2?

I'm looking at the input.club configurator and can't really figure it out
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: SwissFTW on Tue, 08 March 2016, 13:42:36
Any ETA on when the how-to assembly guide(s) will be available? I'm really interested to see how this bad boy gets assembled being this is my first time soldering (got a soldering iron coming in this week to start testing with).

Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: dragonpower2000 on Wed, 09 March 2016, 16:19:52
Any ideas on when round 2 will come?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Thu, 10 March 2016, 00:11:14
possibly end of the year.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Spaceman1200 on Thu, 10 March 2016, 10:24:51
Love this board, too bad i missed the GB due to bills :(
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: b0f0 on Fri, 11 March 2016, 00:06:34
Hi,

I am also interested in buying the whitefox and I have a few questions.
Q1: Where are the "Home" key and "End" key on white fox how do you acceess those to keys, what do you normaly press ?
Q2: Where are or how to access F1 F2 F3 ...F12 keys ?
Q3: Is it possible to buy or order SLOVENIAN keyboard layout ?
Q4 (If Q3 not possible): IS it possible tu buy custum made keycaps, I have special letters in Slovenian that I would need ?
Q5: Is is possible to program or configure keys so that I get special Slovenian letters by pressing combinations like Fn+somthing=special Slovenian sign or Whitefox key + something = special slovenian sign?
Q6: IF Q3Q4Q5 are not an option is it possible to buy DE layout (German)
Q7: Is Assembled Whitefox keyboard by default illuminated ?

I would really be happy if somene gives answers to my questions.

Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Fri, 11 March 2016, 01:17:57
Hi,

I am also interested in buying the whitefox and I have a few questions.
Q1: Where are the "Home" key and "End" key on white fox how do you acceess those to keys, what do you normaly press ?
Q2: Where are or how to access F1 F2 F3 ...F12 keys ?
Q3: Is it possible to buy or order SLOVENIAN keyboard layout ?
Q4 (If Q3 not possible): IS it possible tu buy custum made keycaps, I have special letters in Slovenian that I would need ?
Q5: Is is possible to program or configure keys so that I get special Slovenian letters by pressing combinations like Fn+somthing=special Slovenian sign or Whitefox key + something = special slovenian sign?
Q6: IF Q3Q4Q5 are not an option is it possible to buy DE layout (German)
Q7: Is Assembled Whitefox keyboard by default illuminated ?

I would really be happy if somene gives answers to my questions.

A1: FN+left, FN+right
A2: FN+1,2,3,4...
A3: yes, if your OS supports it
A4: no
A5: yes, if your OS supports Slovenian
A6: the keyboard supports any layout your OS does, but only ANSI keycaps are provided
A7: yes
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: b0f0 on Fri, 11 March 2016, 02:00:32
Matt3o thank you for you fast and accurate answers.
My OS is Linux (Manjaro), it supports Slovenian layout. OK so I buy ANSI keycaps and then I can program each key the way I want it to be.

If I use Slovenian layout with ANSI keycaps this is going to be a mess, so what I would do then is I would reprogram each key.
So basicly I do it like this, I set OS to Slovenian layout that gives me special letter signs like Č č.
Because of Slovenian layout the sign will be at different location on the keyboard,
This means the "&" sign will not be where ANSI keycap is show me. All other keys will be also different from what ANSI keycaps are showing so I would have to reprogram these keys .
I guess I could then program it so that I get the corrent signs matching ANSI keycap with its correct sign and also have the special signs letters from Slovenian layout.

Is this correct ?

by the way was White fox keyboard already used in LInux, are there any problems with it ?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Fri, 11 March 2016, 02:33:32
the keyboard pretty much works out of the box, just set your OS to slovenian layout. of course some of the symbols/letters won't match, you'd need to find a slovenian keyset (I don't know where you can get it, sorry, maybe some old Cherry keyboard).

I'm using the whitefox on linux since a couple of months now :)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: b0f0 on Fri, 11 March 2016, 12:53:45
When will be the next drop available for whitefox ?
There is 1711 requests including mine, this is good.
I am still thinking which tactile switch to choose, I have MX reds and now I am thinking of buying MX Clears or Zealio purple 67.
Will massdrop offer more switch options for the next drop ? LIke Matias Quiet Click ?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Fri, 11 March 2016, 14:31:40
When will be the next drop available for whitefox ?


possibly end of the year.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: flabbergast on Fri, 11 March 2016, 14:38:51
Will massdrop offer more switch options for the next drop ? LIke Matias Quiet Click ?
The WhiteFox PCB does not support ALPS/Matias switches. They would need to make a new PCB, plus new plates. I'd count this as unlikely.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: codywanks on Fri, 11 March 2016, 15:21:31
Q1: Where are the "Home" key and "End" key on white fox how do you acceess those to keys, what do you normaly press ?
Q2: Where are or how to access F1 F2 F3 ...F12 keys ?

A1: FN+left, FN+right
A2: FN+1,2,3,4...

Hey Matt3o, is there a list of the default settings for the FN key? e.g. FN+Left = Home and so on

Also, how do I change FN+1 from F1 to LED+ (or is there no simple way to explain this)?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Sat, 12 March 2016, 01:04:30
the keyboard can be reprogrammed in any way you want from the online configurator http://configurator.input.club/
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Geekmie on Sat, 12 March 2016, 08:06:34
Will be nice if the next version supports built-in underglow. 😆
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Sat, 12 March 2016, 10:00:43
Will be nice if the next version supports built-in underglow. 😆

??

It does not make much sense to include under-glow that will be completely blocked in a keyboard with a closed aluminum case.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Geekmie on Sat, 12 March 2016, 10:04:11
Will be nice if the next version supports built-in underglow. 😆

??

It does not make much sense to include under-glow that will be completely blocked in a keyboard with a closed aluminum case.
Make an acrylic diffuse layer then I guess.  It's always nice to have the capability and people can choose to turn it on or not. Hope this makes sense
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Sat, 12 March 2016, 11:31:53
Will be nice if the next version supports built-in underglow. 😆

??

It does not make much sense to include under-glow that will be completely blocked in a keyboard with a closed aluminum case.
Make an acrylic diffuse layer then I guess.  It's always nice to have the capability and people can choose to turn it on or not. Hope this makes sense

Well, if you alter the design of the Fox, then everything is possible, again, if the intent is to use it as designed there is no reason to illuminate the interior of a non transparent case.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: piemancoder on Tue, 15 March 2016, 20:57:49
Hi,

I am also interested in buying the whitefox and I have a few questions.
Q1: Where are the "Home" key and "End" key on white fox how do you acceess those to keys, what do you normaly press ?
Q2: Where are or how to access F1 F2 F3 ...F12 keys ?
Q3: Is it possible to buy or order SLOVENIAN keyboard layout ?
Q4 (If Q3 not possible): IS it possible tu buy custum made keycaps, I have special letters in Slovenian that I would need ?
Q5: Is is possible to program or configure keys so that I get special Slovenian letters by pressing combinations like Fn+somthing=special Slovenian sign or Whitefox key + something = special slovenian sign?
Q6: IF Q3Q4Q5 are not an option is it possible to buy DE layout (German)
Q7: Is Assembled Whitefox keyboard by default illuminated ?

I would really be happy if somene gives answers to my questions.

A1: FN+left, FN+right
A2: FN+1,2,3,4...
A3: yes, if your OS supports it
A4: no
A5: yes, if your OS supports Slovenian
A6: the keyboard supports any layout your OS does, but only ANSI keycaps are provided
A7: yes

I think WASD keyboards can do custom keycaps, but I'm not sure. You would have to ask them.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: eksuen on Wed, 16 March 2016, 12:38:04
Hi,

I am also interested in buying the whitefox and I have a few questions.
Q1: Where are the "Home" key and "End" key on white fox how do you acceess those to keys, what do you normaly press ?
Q2: Where are or how to access F1 F2 F3 ...F12 keys ?
Q3: Is it possible to buy or order SLOVENIAN keyboard layout ?
Q4 (If Q3 not possible): IS it possible tu buy custum made keycaps, I have special letters in Slovenian that I would need ?
Q5: Is is possible to program or configure keys so that I get special Slovenian letters by pressing combinations like Fn+somthing=special Slovenian sign or Whitefox key + something = special slovenian sign?
Q6: IF Q3Q4Q5 are not an option is it possible to buy DE layout (German)
Q7: Is Assembled Whitefox keyboard by default illuminated ?

I would really be happy if somene gives answers to my questions.

A1: FN+left, FN+right
A2: FN+1,2,3,4...
A3: yes, if your OS supports it
A4: no
A5: yes, if your OS supports Slovenian
A6: the keyboard supports any layout your OS does, but only ANSI keycaps are provided
A7: yes

I think WASD keyboards can do custom keycaps, but I'm not sure. You would have to ask them.

WASD can make custom keycaps. They are printed (and UV coated) so the legends will wear off with heavy usage, but because they are printed, you can have any custom icon/legend you want, in pretty much any color(s) you want, on any and all keys you want. The color of the keycaps themselves, however, is limited to WASD's selection.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: yoobe on Sun, 15 May 2016, 10:24:18

Hi Matt3o


Is there any opensource project for the firmware? I would like to configure my own macros (copy/paste/cut).
With the configurator it is not possible.


Thanks
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: joey on Sun, 15 May 2016, 10:31:36

Hi Matt3o


Is there any opensource project for the firmware? I would like to configure my own macros (copy/paste/cut).
With the configurator it is not possible.


Thanks
https://github.com/kiibohd/controller
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: bmilcs on Sun, 15 May 2016, 12:09:51
Incredible work my man. I wish I had your talent!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: MythicalWagyu on Thu, 19 May 2016, 13:34:50
(http://i.imgur.com/u1UMkXp.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/r6v3wLr.gif)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Tue, 24 May 2016, 12:51:16
post pictures!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: STARLORDCOFFEE on Tue, 24 May 2016, 14:30:42
post pictures!

Pease do post pictures. I want to see at least one happy customer while I wait for mine lol
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Brammm87 on Wed, 25 May 2016, 07:50:39
Oh ****, you lucky mother****er.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 25 May 2016, 10:26:02
Mine showed up last night.  Now I just need a second to open it, take some pics, and assemble it.  :))
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: codywanks on Wed, 25 May 2016, 14:14:17
Mine showed up last night.  Now I just need a second to open it, take some pics, and assemble it, and take some pics again
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: romevi on Wed, 25 May 2016, 15:32:20
Mine showed up last night.  Now I just need a second to open it, take some pics, and assemble it, and take some pics again again.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 25 May 2016, 16:42:00
That packaging though...  :eek:

(https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7422/27216373566_3eb5bca336_k.jpg)
WhiteFox (https://flic.kr/p/Ht22E7) by HoffmanMyster (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99522542@N03/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7577/26643567064_cb163cdd33_k.jpg)
WhiteFox (https://flic.kr/p/GApfeW) by HoffmanMyster (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99522542@N03/), on Flickr

(https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7492/27250381235_9c1c86b240_k.jpg)
WhiteFox (https://flic.kr/p/Hw2jXe) by HoffmanMyster (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99522542@N03/), on Flickr

(https://c8.staticflickr.com/8/7469/27250380375_1fd92af3b0_k.jpg)
WhiteFox (https://flic.kr/p/Hw2jGp) by HoffmanMyster (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99522542@N03/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7320/26643564384_3757f172e8_k.jpg)
WhiteFox (https://flic.kr/p/GAperJ) by HoffmanMyster (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99522542@N03/), on Flickr
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Wed, 25 May 2016, 17:16:35
Very well designed packaging materials, awesome.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: cmb5286 on Wed, 25 May 2016, 19:43:52
Man I am really hoping they do another run. I'd love to put one together.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: dannrawr on Thu, 26 May 2016, 02:47:34
That packaging though...  :eek:

Show Image
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7422/27216373566_3eb5bca336_k.jpg)

WhiteFox (https://flic.kr/p/Ht22E7) by HoffmanMyster (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99522542@N03/), on Flickr

Show Image
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7577/26643567064_cb163cdd33_k.jpg)

WhiteFox (https://flic.kr/p/GApfeW) by HoffmanMyster (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99522542@N03/), on Flickr

Show Image
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7492/27250381235_9c1c86b240_k.jpg)

WhiteFox (https://flic.kr/p/Hw2jXe) by HoffmanMyster (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99522542@N03/), on Flickr

Show Image
(https://c8.staticflickr.com/8/7469/27250380375_1fd92af3b0_k.jpg)

WhiteFox (https://flic.kr/p/Hw2jGp) by HoffmanMyster (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99522542@N03/), on Flickr

Show Image
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7320/26643564384_3757f172e8_k.jpg)

WhiteFox (https://flic.kr/p/GAperJ) by HoffmanMyster (https://www.flickr.com/photos/99522542@N03/), on Flickr
+1 that poison
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: yomammary on Thu, 26 May 2016, 07:51:05
Man I am really hoping they do another run. I'd love to put one together.
Yeah same here, I don't understand why I didn't buy one...
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: MythicalWagyu on Thu, 26 May 2016, 17:24:03
That packaging though...  :eek:

It's sooooo nice, such a joy to open!

☑ White Fox
☑ Zealios (62g tactile)
☑ LEDs (sky blue)
☑ Soldering iron
☑ GMK Hyperfuse
☑ Bonus USB cable
    Pictures - soonTM

Let the fun begin  :cool:
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: thaddeus on Fri, 27 May 2016, 11:45:07
(https://i.imgur.com/2TA3L2i.jpg)

My first keyboard build! I've got R1 65g Zealios on this vixen. I only had access to a 100/140W soldering gun, so I was really careful about contact time with the components. I had one or two switch bottoms get a little bit melted, but seems like they switches are still hitting just fine.

The quality of the case/plate/pcb is...well it's blowing all of my expectations out of the water. I love the weight and texture of the case, and everything fits together flush. So glad I stuck around the GB for this keyboard. Next steps are to flash the firmware with my own keyboard layout.

Matt3o, thank you SO much for organizing this project. I hope you are proud, because I am definitely gloating about this board to all of my coworkers, muahaha.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Fri, 27 May 2016, 16:51:19
Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/2TA3L2i.jpg)


Matt3o, thank you SO much for organizing this project. I hope you are proud, because I am definitely gloating about this board to all of my coworkers, muahaha.

fantastic build thaddeus and thanks! I really appreciate your words
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: xondat on Sat, 28 May 2016, 05:46:14
It's nice to see them finally arriving.

The packaging is #goals.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: MOZ on Sat, 28 May 2016, 06:37:09
matt3o, what's the exact height of only the case (base to plate top)?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Sun, 29 May 2016, 04:29:45
matt3o, what's the exact height of only the case (base to plate top)?

12mm
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 29 May 2016, 05:12:28
Thanks!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Brammm87 on Tue, 07 June 2016, 04:31:27
Lol god damn, I bought a bunch of gear to stream the build. And then I remembered I bought it assembled...
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Wazazaby on Tue, 07 June 2016, 05:10:04
A WhiteFox with rgb underglow would be pretty cool!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: adamski07 on Fri, 10 June 2016, 17:29:09
My PurpleFox  :thumb:Thanks again Matt30 for this awesome board!

(http://i.imgur.com/M98ZndK.jpg)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: eksuen on Sat, 11 June 2016, 01:35:06
In less than ideal lighting conditions:

(http://i.imgur.com/6He323Z.jpg)

Still have to order and install 1.8mm LEDs.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: MythicalWagyu on Sat, 11 June 2016, 02:22:52
Everything is assembled, LEDs are all working fine but my WhiteFox is stuttering: "thhe quiicck brown fox jumpss over the lazy dog"

Any ideas whaht I did wrong and hhow to fiix it?  :confused:
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Jumie on Sat, 11 June 2016, 10:18:59
Everything is assembled, LEDs are all working fine but my WhiteFox is stuttering: "thhe quiicck brown fox jumpss over the lazy dog"

Any ideas whaht I did wrong and hhow to fiix it?  :confused:

what switch did u use?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: user 18 on Sat, 11 June 2016, 10:56:01
Everything is assembled, LEDs are all working fine but my WhiteFox is stuttering: "thhe quiicck brown fox jumpss over the lazy dog"

Any ideas whaht I did wrong and hhow to fiix it?  :confused:

I had this issue on the 'j' when I built mine, but it went away when I reflowed the solder joints and added a bit more solder.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Zorox on Sun, 12 June 2016, 13:45:55
I have recieved my bare bones kit yesterday, and yes it was awesome, the packaging, and the board itself is at a very high quality level. And Matt3o pls dont forger your promise of sharing the plate dimension for custom layout :p
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: MythicalWagyu on Sun, 12 June 2016, 15:20:25
Everything is assembled, LEDs are all working fine but my WhiteFox is stuttering: "thhe quiicck brown fox jumpss over the lazy dog"

Any ideas whaht I did wrong and hhow to fiix it?  :confused:

what switch did u use?

Purple Zealio Switches (Tactile) - 62g (round 1 GB I think? 08/26/2015)

I had this issue on the 'j' when I built mine, but it went away when I reflowed the solder joints and added a bit more solder.

WhiteFox was my first real attempt at soldering so I'll have to go over the joints and see if they look problematic.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: decker on Sun, 12 June 2016, 17:14:16
In less than ideal lighting conditions:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/6He323Z.jpg)


Still have to order and install 1.8mm LEDs.

I had a regular kb with tengwar stickers 15 years ago !
Forgot the phonetics since then !
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: thaddeus on Sun, 12 June 2016, 23:38:27
Everything is assembled, LEDs are all working fine but my WhiteFox is stuttering: "thhe quiicck brown fox jumpss over the lazy dog"

Any ideas whaht I did wrong and hhow to fiix it?  :confused:

what switch did u use?

Purple Zealio Switches (Tactile) - 62g (round 1 GB I think? 08/26/2015)

I had this issue on the 'j' when I built mine, but it went away when I reflowed the solder joints and added a bit more solder.

WhiteFox was my first real attempt at soldering so I'll have to go over the joints and see if they look problematic.

This was my situation: Soldering my first keyboard with R1 Zealios 65g. The 'f' and ';' keys were stuttering quite frequently. After a few seconds of heat and a dab more of solder, and the stuttering went away.

Loving the board so far, I was able to flash the keyboard with an Input.Club configuration. Wondering if anyone has an OSX key layout you wouldn't mind sharing :)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Mon, 13 June 2016, 04:13:32
My PurpleFox  :thumb:Thanks again Matt30 for this awesome board!

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/M98ZndK.jpg)


this is really amazing! congrats!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Thumper_ on Sun, 19 June 2016, 15:31:39
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160619/28a5cc744c8a421896137e23d902745d.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160619/b9a0d20e68796a1751eca85012214c8f.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160619/3a3f36704478f525b315e9dc5cab57d9.jpg)

Thank you Matteo. The quality is excellent.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Sempre on Fri, 01 July 2016, 11:49:39
I received my Whitefox a while back but I just finished building it.
Thanks Matt3o. The Packaging was excellent, quality of the keyboard is top notch and overall great design.

(http://i.imgur.com/QrqQ4co.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/98gtBy2.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/uSb6PGV.jpg)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: user 18 on Fri, 01 July 2016, 12:02:31
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/y0o45itgt8amkw2/IMG_20160619_170405.jpg)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/295aaivu7895jot/IMG_20160619_170410.jpg)

(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/fztf32id5z512xu/IMG_20160619_170415.jpg)

Love this board. Almost wishing now that I'd got two.

Built it with stock clears. All keys are as labelled, except for esc (which is `~ with esc on the function layer) and 'menu' which is actually my function key.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: nickheller on Fri, 01 July 2016, 12:24:28
Show Image
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/y0o45itgt8amkw2/IMG_20160619_170405.jpg)


Show Image
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/295aaivu7895jot/IMG_20160619_170410.jpg)


Show Image
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/fztf32id5z512xu/IMG_20160619_170415.jpg)


Love this board. Almost wishing now that I'd got two.

Built it with stock clears. All keys are as labelled, except for esc (which is `~ with esc on the function layer) and 'menu' which is actually my function key.

I received my Whitefox a while back but I just finished building it.
Thanks Matt3o. The Packaging was excellent, quality of the keyboard is top notch and overall great design.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/QrqQ4co.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/98gtBy2.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/uSb6PGV.jpg)


nice
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Thu, 14 July 2016, 02:21:12
I received my Whitefox a while back but I just finished building it.
Thanks Matt3o. The Packaging was excellent, quality of the keyboard is top notch and overall great design.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/QrqQ4co.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/98gtBy2.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/uSb6PGV.jpg)



Show Image
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/y0o45itgt8amkw2/IMG_20160619_170405.jpg)


Show Image
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/295aaivu7895jot/IMG_20160619_170410.jpg)


Show Image
(https://dl.dropbox.com/s/fztf32id5z512xu/IMG_20160619_170415.jpg)


Love this board. Almost wishing now that I'd got two.

Built it with stock clears. All keys are as labelled, except for esc (which is `~ with esc on the function layer) and 'menu' which is actually my function key.

Fantastic builds! Both of you!

Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: codywanks on Thu, 14 July 2016, 03:19:48
Hi matt3o, it seems that some people who ordered early in Batch #1 are receiving boards without engraving. Could you please comment on this?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Thu, 14 July 2016, 04:19:02
Hi matt3o, it seems that some people who ordered early in Batch #1 are receiving boards without engraving. Could you please comment on this?

unfortunately I can't. meaning that I don't know what happened.

Initially I told MD that I wanted to give early birds a reward, so "whitefox prima" was born. The first 1000 orders should have received it. Then I was told that probably everybody would have gotten a PRIMA. But that clearly didn't happen.

So, my educated guess is that the manufacturer put the PRIMA engraving in the order they produced the keyboards (which is not the same as users' order number). MassDrop couldn't fix that because of the many options the whitefox came with. It is very unfortunate but I believe it comes from a miscommunication between MD and the manufacturer.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: codywanks on Thu, 14 July 2016, 05:04:44
...my educated guess is that the manufacturer put the PRIMA engraving in the order they produced the keyboards (which is not the same as users' order number). MassDrop couldn't fix that because of the many options the whitefox came with. It is very unfortunate but I believe it comes from a miscommunication between MD and the manufacturer.

Alright, thanks for your insight. Still have no idea where my order is, though  :(
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Brammm87 on Thu, 14 July 2016, 11:08:29
My Whitefox is taking a literal long journey, at least time wise. It took 5 days to get from the US to Brussels and it's been laying there for over 10 days now... I've never had to exercise this much patience waiting for a package from Massdrop...
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Wulkes on Fri, 15 July 2016, 10:50:43
I'm having an issue where my whitefox operates as if i'm always pressing down the control key, even after I desoldered and removed those switches. Can someone help me troubleshoot this?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: user 18 on Fri, 15 July 2016, 10:54:07
I'm having an issue where my whitefox operates as if i'm always pressing down the control key, even after I desoldered and removed those switches. Can someone help me troubleshoot this?

Did you use the firmware configurator, or are you using the firmware that came on the board originally?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Wulkes on Fri, 15 July 2016, 10:59:34
I'm having an issue where my whitefox operates as if i'm always pressing down the control key, even after I desoldered and removed those switches. Can someone help me troubleshoot this?

Did you use the firmware configurator, or are you using the firmware that came on the board originally?
Yes, sorry, should have said. Flashed several times, doesn't change.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: user 18 on Fri, 15 July 2016, 11:01:20
I'm having an issue where my whitefox operates as if i'm always pressing down the control key, even after I desoldered and removed those switches. Can someone help me troubleshoot this?

Did you use the firmware configurator, or are you using the firmware that came on the board originally?
Yes, sorry, should have said. Flashed several times, doesn't change.

Can you post the zip file you downloaded with firmware? I remember having some trouble with mine with keys not matching what the configurator said, and I wonder if this is a related problem.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Wulkes on Fri, 15 July 2016, 11:05:40
I'm having an issue where my whitefox operates as if i'm always pressing down the control key, even after I desoldered and removed those switches. Can someone help me troubleshoot this?

Did you use the firmware configurator, or are you using the firmware that came on the board originally?
Yes, sorry, should have said. Flashed several times, doesn't change.

Can you post the zip file you downloaded with firmware? I remember having some trouble with mine with keys not matching what the configurator said, and I wonder if this is a related problem.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4AfTVpoQat5clBUUTJVV0stSkU (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4AfTVpoQat5clBUUTJVV0stSkU)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: user 18 on Fri, 15 July 2016, 11:09:44
I'm having an issue where my whitefox operates as if i'm always pressing down the control key, even after I desoldered and removed those switches. Can someone help me troubleshoot this?

Did you use the firmware configurator, or are you using the firmware that came on the board originally?
Yes, sorry, should have said. Flashed several times, doesn't change.

Can you post the zip file you downloaded with firmware? I remember having some trouble with mine with keys not matching what the configurator said, and I wonder if this is a related problem.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4AfTVpoQat5clBUUTJVV0stSkU (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4AfTVpoQat5clBUUTJVV0stSkU)

Do you know if both ctrl keys are being held down or if it's only one or the other?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Wulkes on Fri, 15 July 2016, 11:14:59
I'm having an issue where my whitefox operates as if i'm always pressing down the control key, even after I desoldered and removed those switches. Can someone help me troubleshoot this?

Did you use the firmware configurator, or are you using the firmware that came on the board originally?
Yes, sorry, should have said. Flashed several times, doesn't change.

Can you post the zip file you downloaded with firmware? I remember having some trouble with mine with keys not matching what the configurator said, and I wonder if this is a related problem.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4AfTVpoQat5clBUUTJVV0stSkU (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4AfTVpoQat5clBUUTJVV0stSkU)

Do you know if both ctrl keys are being held down or if it's only one or the other?
No, shouldn't be either. I desoldered and removed the switches entirely thinking that would answer the question you're asking.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: user 18 on Fri, 15 July 2016, 11:17:55
No, shouldn't be either. I desoldered and removed the switches entirely thinking that would answer the question you're asking.

That's not quite what I meant -- does it appear to the computer that both keys are held down, or is it a particular keycode that's being sent. Try something like aquakeytest if you're on Windows, or xev if you're on mac/linux.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Wulkes on Fri, 15 July 2016, 11:21:54
No, shouldn't be either. I desoldered and removed the switches entirely thinking that would answer the question you're asking.

That's not quite what I meant -- does it appear to the computer that both keys are held down, or is it a particular keycode that's being sent. Try something like aquakeytest if you're on Windows, or xev if you're on mac/linux.
Ah, right ctrl. Similar program I was using wasn't seeing either register.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: user 18 on Fri, 15 July 2016, 11:30:45
No, shouldn't be either. I desoldered and removed the switches entirely thinking that would answer the question you're asking.

That's not quite what I meant -- does it appear to the computer that both keys are held down, or is it a particular keycode that's being sent. Try something like aquakeytest if you're on Windows, or xev if you're on mac/linux.
Ah, right ctrl. Similar program I was using wasn't seeing either register.

What happens if you reflash so that the key that currently is assigned as right ctrl is now assigned as something else? Is the new key held down, or is it still sending right ctrl all the time?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Wulkes on Fri, 15 July 2016, 11:40:04
No, shouldn't be either. I desoldered and removed the switches entirely thinking that would answer the question you're asking.

That's not quite what I meant -- does it appear to the computer that both keys are held down, or is it a particular keycode that's being sent. Try something like aquakeytest if you're on Windows, or xev if you're on mac/linux.
Ah, right ctrl. Similar program I was using wasn't seeing either register.

What happens if you reflash so that the key that currently is assigned as right ctrl is now assigned as something else? Is the new key held down, or is it still sending right ctrl all the time?
Still sending right control.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: user 18 on Fri, 15 July 2016, 11:46:15
No, shouldn't be either. I desoldered and removed the switches entirely thinking that would answer the question you're asking.

That's not quite what I meant -- does it appear to the computer that both keys are held down, or is it a particular keycode that's being sent. Try something like aquakeytest if you're on Windows, or xev if you're on mac/linux.
Ah, right ctrl. Similar program I was using wasn't seeing either register.

What happens if you reflash so that the key that currently is assigned as right ctrl is now assigned as something else? Is the new key held down, or is it still sending right ctrl all the time?
Still sending right control.

So there's no right control assigned anywhere in the keymap, but it's still sending that key all the time? All I can think of is that there's some bug in the source code or some physical issue with your keyboard. Has it always had this issue?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Fri, 15 July 2016, 13:56:44
we need to see your solder job!
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: jbondeson on Fri, 15 July 2016, 14:10:19
On the I:C forums we've also heard of issues with Win10 drivers. What operating system are you running? And, do you have another machine you can test on?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Wulkes on Fri, 15 July 2016, 14:28:12
No, shouldn't be either. I desoldered and removed the switches entirely thinking that would answer the question you're asking.

That's not quite what I meant -- does it appear to the computer that both keys are held down, or is it a particular keycode that's being sent. Try something like aquakeytest if you're on Windows, or xev if you're on mac/linux.
Ah, right ctrl. Similar program I was using wasn't seeing either register.

What happens if you reflash so that the key that currently is assigned as right ctrl is now assigned as something else? Is the new key held down, or is it still sending right ctrl all the time?
Still sending right control.

So there's no right control assigned anywhere in the keymap, but it's still sending that key all the time? All I can think of is that there's some bug in the source code or some physical issue with your keyboard. Has it always had this issue?
we need to see your solder job!

This is going to be embarrassing but ok. http://imgur.com/a/DOnn7 (http://imgur.com/a/DOnn7) Not my first time but it's been a while.

After restarting and reinstalling the firmware I got right control to stop registering but now can't get another switch to register at all. Also can't get spacebar to register. Worried I overheated some of the gen 1 or something. So frustrating, spent 3+ hours a day this week trying to finish this and get it working and feels like I keep digging a deeper hole.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Parak on Fri, 15 July 2016, 17:06:25
This is going to be embarrassing but ok. http://imgur.com/a/DOnn7 (http://imgur.com/a/DOnn7) Not my first time but it's been a while.

Yeah that's fairly bad soldering :( Soldering advice aside (hop on irc if you want that), I think you have a solder bridge on the spacebar switch. The right pin seems to have a bit of solder going up to an empty pad in the adjacent position. In that position, the empty pad is the other pin of the same switch, so effectively that would short the switch and could confuse the controller. Use clean and shiny solder tip with a bit of flux to get the excess solder off and clear the bridge.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Cados on Fri, 15 July 2016, 17:19:34
I have a quick question. Is the capslock button supposed to light up when caps is activated? On my whitefox it doesnt but all the LEDs do work when I turn on the brightness.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Wulkes on Fri, 15 July 2016, 18:19:12
This is going to be embarrassing but ok. http://imgur.com/a/DOnn7 (http://imgur.com/a/DOnn7) Not my first time but it's been a while.

Yeah that's fairly bad soldering :( Soldering advice aside (hop on irc if you want that), I think you have a solder bridge on the spacebar switch. The right pin seems to have a bit of solder going up to an empty pad in the adjacent position. In that position, the empty pad is the other pin of the same switch, so effectively that would short the switch and could confuse the controller. Use clean and shiny solder tip with a bit of flux to get the excess solder off and clear the bridge.
Yeah, had to switch to a new brand fairly early and the temp difference threw me, that and being afraid to scorch the first gen zeals further harmed my already novice technique. But I swear I've gotten the hang of it now that I've already screwed up.

Advice on the space bar was spot on, thanks!! Got it working. Right control and "K" still giving me trouble.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: user 18 on Fri, 15 July 2016, 18:45:01
This is going to be embarrassing but ok. http://imgur.com/a/DOnn7 (http://imgur.com/a/DOnn7) Not my first time but it's been a while.

Yeah that's fairly bad soldering :( Soldering advice aside (hop on irc if you want that), I think you have a solder bridge on the spacebar switch. The right pin seems to have a bit of solder going up to an empty pad in the adjacent position. In that position, the empty pad is the other pin of the same switch, so effectively that would short the switch and could confuse the controller. Use clean and shiny solder tip with a bit of flux to get the excess solder off and clear the bridge.
Yeah, had to switch to a new brand fairly early and the temp difference threw me, that and being afraid to scorch the first gen zeals further harmed my already novice technique. But I swear I've gotten the hang of it now that I've already screwed up.

Advice on the space bar was spot on, thanks!! Got it working. Right control and "K" still giving me trouble.

There might be a solder bridge on right control as well, it's hard to tell from that picture. If possible, try cleaning up anything that's giving you trouble.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Hypersphere on Fri, 15 July 2016, 19:15:47
Received my WhiteFox kit recently. Very favorably impressed with the beautiful design of everything, including the packaging. Given my procrastination in getting to my various DIY projects, I probably should have opted for a fully assembled board (if this was indeed an option -- I've forgotten), although I am still undecided about which switches to use.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: codywanks on Fri, 15 July 2016, 20:05:02
This is going to be embarrassing but ok. Not my first time but it's been a while.

that's what she said  ;)
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Wulkes on Fri, 15 July 2016, 22:10:30
This is going to be embarrassing but ok. Not my first time but it's been a while.

that's what she said  ;)
Glad I didn't say "be gentle"  :-X
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Brammm87 on Sat, 16 July 2016, 01:50:01
76 euro custom taxes. RIP.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Sat, 16 July 2016, 04:21:16
This is going to be embarrassing but ok. http://imgur.com/a/DOnn7 (http://imgur.com/a/DOnn7) Not my first time but it's been a while.

you have to clear all those pads and start over. Use less solder and try to be sharp on those pads.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: eeymiel on Sun, 17 July 2016, 12:33:38
Finally received my whitefox this week :) True Fox layout is as amazing in use as it looked  :thumb:
[attach=1]
Some white keycaps have a little blue or red dot on them and I didn't receive an "any key", but I hope massdrop will fix that.

I'd like to add an rgb led to indicate what layer I'm on. I see some pins above the spacebar that I think I can use for this. I do have transparent zealio switches, so I hope it will bleed through. I can program so I think I can add this to the firmware.
Any tips from more experienced modders in how I would add this?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: dannrawr on Fri, 22 July 2016, 09:44:15
phew new drop
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Matt3o on Fri, 22 July 2016, 10:28:05
phew new drop

so it seems...  :blank:
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Thumper_ on Fri, 22 July 2016, 10:28:41
phew new drop

so it seems...  :blank:

You are not part of this?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: eeymiel on Fri, 22 July 2016, 13:08:06
okay so posting this again :)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/3EpU5ky.png)


(special edition, not sure it will be made, but the case will be gold anodized)
Was hoping we would see this version now. Maybe next time?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: VereChi on Fri, 22 July 2016, 13:35:37
phew new drop

so it seems...  :blank:

Do we have DCS midnight 50% discount this time?

I missed the first time. Really need midnight to cover my Whitefox  :thumb:
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: decker on Thu, 28 July 2016, 01:25:01
Hello,
Does anybody know where I could buy a Azerty key set for the white fox ?
Ideally that look the same so I can keep the fox keys ?

Thanks
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Brammm87 on Thu, 28 July 2016, 07:21:16
Hello,
Does anybody know where I could buy a Azerty key set for the white fox ?
Ideally that look the same so I can keep the fox keys ?

Thanks

As far as I know, Azerty isn't supported by the international expansion because it's not used enough to ever meet MOQs (I was in the same boat with Belgian Azerty). Switch to Qwerty and use the international layout, I can type anything I want in French :p
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ac2531 on Tue, 02 August 2016, 10:35:51
I wasn't able to get in on the first drop, but I've got a TrueFox with Gat Browns on the way. This is my first mech build and I"m incredibly excited.

Thanks for all the effort you put in to this board, Matt3o. It's a beauty.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Tue, 02 August 2016, 11:04:06
Hello,
Does anybody know where I could buy a Azerty key set for the white fox ?
Ideally that look the same so I can keep the fox keys ?

Thanks

As far as I know, Azerty isn't supported by the international expansion because it's not used enough to ever meet MOQs (I was in the same boat with Belgian Azerty). Switch to Qwerty and use the international layout, I can type anything I want in French :p

You can always use the alphas of an original Azerty key set, along with the modifiers of the Fox, or any other alternative key set that matches its modifiers.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: decker on Tue, 02 August 2016, 16:18:39
You can always use the alphas of an original Azerty key set, along with the modifiers of the Fox, or any other alternative key set that matches its modifiers.

Hi I've been directed by eksuen to WASD : 88-key-iso-cherry-mx-keycap-set (http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/keycap-set/88-key-iso-cherry-mx-keycap-set.html)
I should be able to get an Azerty cherry mx set of keys from them.
I believe the oly key that is fox specific is the right shift...



Thanks for the reply.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Tue, 02 August 2016, 16:36:02
You can always use the alphas of an original Azerty key set, along with the modifiers of the Fox, or any other alternative key set that matches its modifiers.

Hi I've been directed by eksuen to WASD : 88-key-iso-cherry-mx-keycap-set (http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/keycap-set/88-key-iso-cherry-mx-keycap-set.html)
I should be able to get an Azerty cherry mx set of keys from them.
I believe the oly key that is fox specific is the right shift...



Thanks for the reply.

I am afraid those key caps are too cheap to be considered, their only advantage is that you can get them printed as you wish, I can make some pictures comparing some of them with OG Cherry and Granite as reference; but, believe me when I say that you'd better save some money and invest in a good set instead.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: decker on Tue, 02 August 2016, 16:52:44
I am afraid those key caps are too cheap to be considered, their only advantage is that you can get them printed as you wish, I can make some pictures comparing some of them with OG Cherry and Granite as reference; but, believe me when I say that you'd better save some money and invest in a good set instead.

Arg !

What do you have in mind ?
Where can I buy good quality cherry mx caps and have them in Azerty ?
I don't think I'll join the drop that ends in 5 days if I dont have a clear view regarding the Azerty caps solution.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: eksuen on Tue, 02 August 2016, 17:31:44
I am afraid those key caps are too cheap to be considered, their only advantage is that you can get them printed as you wish, I can make some pictures comparing some of them with OG Cherry and Granite as reference; but, believe me when I say that you'd better save some money and invest in a good set instead.

Arg !

What do you have in mind ?
Where can I buy good quality cherry mx caps and have them in Azerty ?
I don't think I'll join the drop that ends in 5 days if I dont have a clear view regarding the Azerty caps solution.

Yeah, they aren't the highest quality and will not last you as long as double-shots or dyesubs, but that's the tradeoff to get a completely custom layout printed. You'll have a hard time finding a "good set" with Azerty layout.

EDIT: My other suggestion was to get a set in DSA and swap the alphas to Azerty. The keys for symbols and punctuation may not all match, but at least it will get you part of the way there.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ideus on Tue, 02 August 2016, 18:10:06
I am afraid those key caps are too cheap to be considered, their only advantage is that you can get them printed as you wish, I can make some pictures comparing some of them with OG Cherry and Granite as reference; but, believe me when I say that you'd better save some money and invest in a good set instead.

Arg !

What do you have in mind ?
Where can I buy good quality cherry mx caps and have them in Azerty ?
I don't think I'll join the drop that ends in 5 days if I dont have a clear view regarding the Azerty caps solution.

If you are not already a DT member, I suggest you to join that board, from time to time, there are Azerty sets or keyboard for sale, most of the used sets are double shots, while they are not new and may have some shine they are always superior to those thin key caps. It is your call though; but, based on my own experience, I'd bet you will regret to get them, but be my guess, do not believe me, try for yourself, who knows, maybe you like them.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: HeroXLazer on Fri, 10 March 2017, 18:36:37
Wait, so does the plate support switch-top removal?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: user 18 on Mon, 13 March 2017, 16:00:25
Wait, so does the plate support switch-top removal?

Mine from the first run appears to.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ac2531 on Tue, 11 April 2017, 13:00:58
Wait, so does the plate support switch-top removal?

Can confirm, the R2 WhiteFox allows for switchtop removal.
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: leech on Sat, 29 April 2017, 04:37:23
Can confirm, the R2 WhiteFox allows for switchtop removal.
new be here. sorry for asking what is 'switchtop removal' and what is the average pricepoint of WhiteFox?

Does the WhiteFox support full RGB lighting through hardware and firmware?
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: krisst on Sat, 29 April 2017, 05:21:35
new be here. sorry for asking what is 'switchtop removal' and what is the average pricepoint of WhiteFox?

Does the WhiteFox support full RGB lighting through hardware and firmware?

Switchtip removal in general means that the plate of the keyboard have these notches, for easy removal of MX switch top cover without desoldering the whole switch. This will aid easy maintenance and troubleshooting.
(http://i.imgur.com/COyzagI.jpg)

Average price for brand new Whitefox from Massdrop, would be around 180 usd. Depending on what type of switches and add-on you choose, prices varies.

Currently Whitefox does not support Full RGB out of the box, unless you would like to diy mod it yourself.

Some FAQs of Whitefox can be found here. http://matt3o.com/whitefox-faq/
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: leech on Sat, 29 April 2017, 05:36:44
switch top cover without desoldering the whole switch.
Ahh now i get it, thanks for the explanation. It means that one could disassemble the switch and, for example, exchange the inside spring, while the bottom switch half remains soldered to the PCB. I was thinking that every mount plate is or should be constructed that way.

180$ is the lowest a buyer must invest?

While this special mkb/project might be worth this kind of money, it is too much for my portemonnaie. i love my mkb and all but i don't want to be overdoing it. It is crazy enough imho that i am looking at replacement switches on Aliexpress omg.

Thanks again for the answers, i am probably out of this thread from here on  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: ddot on Tue, 20 June 2017, 11:57:29
Looks like the WhiteFox is back, but via kickstarter this time.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/input-club-whitefox-keyboard-kickstarter,34834.html

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lekashman/whitefox-mechanical-keyboard
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: chuckdee on Tue, 20 June 2017, 15:31:27
More info on deskthority: https://deskthority.net/group-buys-f50/more-whitefox-less-massdrop-t16839.html?sid=047f0c9e9d1b3d5e765af9f1137756cb
Title: Re: The long journey of the WhiteFox
Post by: Marutks on Mon, 26 June 2017, 18:09:36
I would like to join Whitefox kickstarter.  I am not sure about switches. I prefer tactile switches (Zealios 65g and 67g, MOD-Ms).   Are Halo switches similar?