WTF has happened with all the Cherry clone switches?

[vivalarevolución]

Hi, I got my first Cherry-mount keyboard in years and it seems the switch offerings have expanded quite a bit.  When I was last in the game, I liked Gateron Brown or a light Ergo Clear (55g or so).  But there is more than that these days.  After doing some poking around, it seems like these are the type of switches I am after:

-Kailh Brown
-Kailh BOX Brown
-Kailh Speed Copper
-Kailh Pro Purple
-Hako Violet
-Aliaz 60g
-A bunch of different Zealios, probably 62g

What the heck is going on here?  Can anybody speak of experiences with this new class of light, tactile switches?  I am a bit overwhelmed and lost.

[romevi]

I was a bit MIA from October through February and like 50 types came out.

But all I know is that Gateron has faded and Boxes are the new Gaterons in terms of craze.

[vivalarevolución]

I was a bit MIA from October through February and like 50 types came out.

But all I know is that Gateron has faded and Boxes are the new Gaterons in terms of craze.

I just want to know what is the best for what I am looking for so I don't have to buy multiple switch samplers and test them all. I'm putting these on a plate that doesn't allow switch top removal and I want something that makes me happy and I don't have de-solder or resolder.

Or maybe I could get these hot swap sockets I am seeing around these days.  That could solve my problem.

[SpAmRaY]

Nobody can tell you what you will like, too many variables and it's personal preference.

But just to muddy the waters cherry had also retooled many of their switches.

I've been using an FC980M PD with mx browns.....I historically hated mx browns.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Photoelectric]

Cherry MX switches are still great and supposedly the tooling has been improved to make the new batches smoother.  If you want to try a good sampling of Kailh switches, including BOX, you can try this:
https://novelkeys.xyz/collections/switches/products/kailh-sample-pack

There was a 63-switch tester recently on Massdrop, would have been good for your purposes
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/super-switch-tester-63-switches

There's absolutely no need to sample every single switch and pick some hypothetical and highly subjective "best" switch.  Lots of these switches are very good, so I'd just try a few and go with what you like out of that.

[vivalarevolución]

Nobody can tell you what you will like, too many variables and it's personal preference.

But just to muddy the waters cherry had also retooled many of their switches.

I've been using an FC980M PD with mx browns.....I historically hated mx browns.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Life was easier when it was Cherry, modified Cherry switches, and garbage clones. Gaterons were a welcome addition to the market.

Now it's the typical dilemma of the modern world with too much choice that it is paralyzing.

But I think that I'm leaning towards Hako Violet, because Input Club, through-hole LEDs, and I like what I'm reading about them.

[vivalarevolución]

Cherry MX switches are still great and supposedly the tooling has been improved to make the new batches smoother.  If you want to try a good sampling of Kailh switches, including BOX, you can try this:
https://novelkeys.xyz/collections/switches/products/kailh-sample-pack

There was a 63-switch tester recently on Massdrop, would have been good for your purposes
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/super-switch-tester-63-switches

There's absolutely no need to sample every single switch and pick some hypothetical and highly subjective "best" switch.  Lots of these switches are very good, so I'd just try a few and go with what you like out of that.

Thanks. Yes, it is highly subjective. Always has been, always will be.  Kailh BOX are out for me because I need something compatible with through-hole LEDs.

[Photoelectric]

Cherry MX switches are still great and supposedly the tooling has been improved to make the new batches smoother.  If you want to try a good sampling of Kailh switches, including BOX, you can try this:
https://novelkeys.xyz/collections/switches/products/kailh-sample-pack

There was a 63-switch tester recently on Massdrop, would have been good for your purposes
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/super-switch-tester-63-switches

There's absolutely no need to sample every single switch and pick some hypothetical and highly subjective "best" switch.  Lots of these switches are very good, so I'd just try a few and go with what you like out of that.

Thanks. Yes, it is highly subjective. Always has been, always will be.  Kailh BOX are out for me because I need something compatible with through-hole LEDs.

They are compatible* with through-hole LEDs.
(*The Hako True, Clear, and Violet BOX switches don't have the hooded cover over LEDs and provide full access)

[vivalarevolución]

Cherry MX switches are still great and supposedly the tooling has been improved to make the new batches smoother.  If you want to try a good sampling of Kailh switches, including BOX, you can try this:
https://novelkeys.xyz/collections/switches/products/kailh-sample-pack

There was a 63-switch tester recently on Massdrop, would have been good for your purposes
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/super-switch-tester-63-switches

There's absolutely no need to sample every single switch and pick some hypothetical and highly subjective "best" switch.  Lots of these switches are very good, so I'd just try a few and go with what you like out of that.

Thanks. Yes, it is highly subjective. Always has been, always will be.  Kailh BOX are out for me because I need something compatible with through-hole LEDs.

They are compatible* with through-hole LEDs.
(*The Hako True, Clear, and Violet BOX switches don't have the hooded cover over LEDs and provide full access)

I guess that I was not categorizing the Hako switches as Kailh BOX, but I guess they are a variant.  Thanks for your input.

The Kailh Pro Purple also catches my eye. Has the higher tactile event that I prefer in my switches.

[Kevadu]

They are compatible* with through-hole LEDs.
(*The Hako True, Clear, and Violet BOX switches don't have the hooded cover over LEDs and provide full access)

Box Royals are like this too.  I think Kailh may be moving in this direction for all their Box switches, but that's just speculation.

[romevi]

Cherry MX switches are still great and supposedly the tooling has been improved to make the new batches smoother.  If you want to try a good sampling of Kailh switches, including BOX, you can try this:
https://novelkeys.xyz/collections/switches/products/kailh-sample-pack

There was a 63-switch tester recently on Massdrop, would have been good for your purposes
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/super-switch-tester-63-switches

There's absolutely no need to sample every single switch and pick some hypothetical and highly subjective "best" switch.  Lots of these switches are very good, so I'd just try a few and go with what you like out of that.

Thanks. Yes, it is highly subjective. Always has been, always will be.  Kailh BOX are out for me because I need something compatible with through-hole LEDs.

They are compatible* with through-hole LEDs.
(*The Hako True, Clear, and Violet BOX switches don't have the hooded cover over LEDs and provide full access)

I guess that I was not categorizing the Hako switches as Kailh BOX, but I guess they are a variant.  Thanks for your input.

The Kailh Pro Purple also catches my eye. Has the higher tactile event that I prefer in my switches.

Are you talking about the NovelKeys' Kail Royals?

There are a few Kailh switches that are exclusive to NovelKeys; the Navy, Jade, and Royal I think are the three.

[katushkin]

Are you talking about the NovelKeys' Kail Royals?

There are a few Kailh switches that are exclusive to NovelKeys; the Navy, Jade, and Royal I think are the three.

Mechboards UK have Navy and Jade switches as well

[Kevadu]

I guess that I was not categorizing the Hako switches as Kailh BOX, but I guess they are a variant.  Thanks for your input.

The Kailh Pro Purple also catches my eye. Has the higher tactile event that I prefer in my switches.

Are you talking about the NovelKeys' Kail Royals?

There are a few Kailh switches that are exclusive to NovelKeys; the Navy, Jade, and Royal I think are the three.

Kailh Pro Purple is an other switch that's fairly similar to Zealios.  It's neither a box switch nor a NovelKeys switch.

Yeah there are a lot of switches these days...

[vivalarevolución]

I guess that I was not categorizing the Hako switches as Kailh BOX, but I guess they are a variant.  Thanks for your input.

The Kailh Pro Purple also catches my eye. Has the higher tactile event that I prefer in my switches.

Are you talking about the NovelKeys' Kail Royals?

There are a few Kailh switches that are exclusive to NovelKeys; the Navy, Jade, and Royal I think are the three.

Kailh Pro Purple is an other switch that's fairly similar to Zealios.  It's neither a box switch nor a NovelKeys switch.

Yeah there are a lot of switches these days...

I was talking about these, which are more traditional Cherry-style switches:  https://novelkeys.xyz/products/kailh-pro-switches

The Kailh Speed switches are interesting as well, but I think the short travel and high actuation might lead to more typing errors than a switch with a bit more travel.  That's just me speculating, anyways.

I think that I am ruling out Zealios because the tactile bump requires more key travel tha what I prefer.  I favor a hogher tactile bump in the key travel, like Topre.

[Findecanor]

-Kailh Pro Purple

I think I tried them but I am not sure. KBDfans' page that I ordered them from said both "Pro Purple" and "Speed Purple" on the same page. The URL said "kaih-speed-pro-switch"... Huh?

They did disappoint me. Not too tactile because the bump is very very early in the key travel.

-Aliaz 60g

From what I have read, there is very little difference between Aliaz and Gateron Silent Brown. Both are made by Gateron and the slider has the same shape: like a Cherry MX Brown but with internal rubber dampeners.
Aliaz' slider is a different colour, and I think it might be lubed more and with a nicer spring.

I have tried the Gateron Silent Brown and I find them to feel better and dampen more effectively than regular Gateron Brown or Cherry MX Brown with O-rings or QMX clips.
For myself I would get the cheaper Gateron over the Aliaz because they are smooth and silent enough for me and paying 50% more would be diminishing returns.

[vivalarevolución]

-Kailh Pro Purple

I think I tried them but I am not sure. KBDfans' page that I ordered them from said both "Pro Purple" and "Speed Purple" on the same page. The URL said "kaih-speed-pro-switch"... Huh?

They did disappoint me. Not too tactile because the bump is very very early in the key travel.

-Aliaz 60g

From what I have read, there is very little difference between Aliaz and Gateron Silent Brown. Both are made by Gateron and the slider has the same shape: like a Cherry MX Brown but with internal rubber dampeners.
Aliaz' slider is a different colour, and I think it might be lubed more and with a nicer spring.

I have tried the Gateron Silent Brown and I find them to feel better and dampen more effectively than regular Gateron Brown or Cherry MX Brown with O-rings or QMX clips.
For myself I would get the cheaper Gateron over the Aliaz because they are smooth and silent enough for me and paying 50% more would be diminishing returns.

Thanks for your experiences.  I like the early tactile bump, but a mechanical keyswitch tactile bump is a different experience than the early tactile bump found in Topre, for example. I think a switch sampler is in orser, at the very least.

You make a good point about diminishing returns. I have essentially ruled out Zealios, because the price premium is simply not worth it to me.

[Photoelectric]

If you like high tactility right at the top, then Kailh switches—especially BOX—might be to your liking.  BOX Brown, BOX Burnt Orange, BOX “Hako Violet”, BOX “Hako Clear” and most of the click bar BOX switches are very tactile at the start of the travel.  LEDs can be inserted inside the switches.  I think the clear switch tops for both typers are also interchangeable (need to double check).

[Kevadu]

Kailh Pro Purple is an other switch that's fairly similar to Zealios.  It's neither a box switch nor a NovelKeys switch.

Yeah there are a lot of switches these days...

I was talking about these, which are more traditional Cherry-style switches:  https://novelkeys.xyz/products/kailh-pro-switches

The Kailh Speed switches are interesting as well, but I think the short travel and high actuation might lead to more typing errors than a switch with a bit more travel.  That's just me speculating, anyways.

I think that I am ruling out Zealios because the tactile bump requires more key travel tha what I prefer.  I favor a hogher tactile bump in the key travel, like Topre.

Yes that's what I'm talking about too.  By not a Novelkeys switch I mean it's not a Novelkeys design, not that they don't sell them (they're a normal store too but they've also had a hand in designing some recent switches like the Box navy/jades and Box Royal).  I have some of these and I'm not really impressed.  They really just feel like inferior Zealios to me...rougher and not quite as tactile.  Yeah I guess the actuation point is supposed to be a bit earlier but it's not to a degree that makes a big difference.

It's clear from your comments that you're looking for an early tactile bump, but I'm considerably less clear about how large a bump you want.  But if you want a large bump then Box Royals all the way.  They blow pretty much every other MX-compatible switch out of the water in that regard, except maybe Zealios but you don't seem to like those.  But like most other Box switches the tactile bump on the Royals is also quite early.

Though looking at my Box Royals again for some reason they've gone with the worst of both worlds for LED support.   They don't have the hood of older Box switches that let's you put LEDs under them, the design looks like a more traditional clear top housing in that it flattens out where the LED hole would be.  The problem is it doesn't actually have any holes there...it actually confused me at first because it really looks there there should be holes but there aren't any.  I have no idea why they did this.   I can't see any advantage at all to this design.  However you should be able to swap the top housing with one from another switch if you have any spares around...

[Photoelectric]

Oh that's interesting, I didn't realize they didn't add any holes for LEDs to the top for BOX Royals, which is an odd move (considering that most custom PCBs still don't come with SMD RGB LEDs, and why not have them compatible with through-hole switches too at least with the domed design)
https://novelkeys.xyz/products/novelkeys-box-royal-switches
"Only SMD compatible and are not compatible with other LEDs."

[vivalarevolución]

Well, what I'm looking for is light, tactile, non-clicky, and has a high tactile point.  Basically, a Cherry style switch that is similar to Topre. My concern with Box Royal is they have a heavier actuation force, which typically causes typing fatigue me (I type on 30g Topre at the moment).  I have the same concerns with Hako True and Clear.

It seems that the Hako Violet or Box Brown are the best fit for what I'm looking, but I am not keen on switching the switch tops so I use through-hole LEDs with the Box Brown.

Anyways, I'll probably get that Kailh switch sampler to give myself a better idea of their current offerings.

[Photoelectric]

Check out this discussion, it could be relevant:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=95685.msg2610281#msg2610281

And yes, based on what you want, I agree that BOX Brown and BOX Hako Violet are your top bets.  You can order a 10-pack of BOX Violets for $5 + shipping and try them out before you commit.

[vivalarevolución]

Lol, I just read about the drama with the Halo switch.  What a dust-up?