ThinkPad iSeries (2621-541)

[EverythingIBM]

Alright, the ThinkPad I got was an iSeries from my Aussie teacher. oy mate. I think that's the last of the IBM equipment from my school. I could be wrong and find a free stash of IBM stuff elsewhere.

Here's a stock photo:


Ain't she a beaut' mate?

The cool thing about the laptop is that it has the integrated CD player at the bottom (that's what those little four *lavender* buttons are for). So, you can play CDs when the computer itself isn't turned on into the OS. IBM always thinking of clever things. The computer and CD player then change who's "master" of the CD drive. Kind of like two crocs fighting over a kangaroo...

Anyways, I took the hard drive out because I guess the Aussie teacher had personal files on there he didn't want. The IBM manual tells me it's EIDE, although it could be lying. I just want to make sure before I buy a new hard drive for this thing. Does it have to be a specific size? Or will the computer just ignore the extra space if there's too much?

I'm assuming these are the right drivers, but I can't tell until I can get into the computer with an OS on a HDD...

It's too bad, I really want to give the laptop a whirl besides browsing through the BIOS and listening to CDs while the computer is turned off. Oh yeah, and the BIOS doesn't really give me much info. It did say 466 Mhz celeron. I'm guessing 64 MB of RAM then. Only has one RAM card installed, I kind of want to get more if possible...

EDIT: and yes, I am going to use this laptop, it's very stylish and cool. Finally one without a stupid touchpad and actually having a PS/2 mouse port. I don't care much for a parallel or serial port though.

Also some trivia, these were the first laptops to incorporate wireless LAN. Cool! I would say something boastful here but shall refrain.

[ch_123]

Depending on it's age the BIOS will only support a certain size of hard drive (unless an appropriate update exists for it). If it's 'new' enough to have integrated wifi, it will probably be limited to 127GB hard drives.

[EverythingIBM]

Depending on its age the BIOS will only support a certain size of hard drive (unless an appropriate update exists for it). If it's 'new' enough to have integrated wifi, it will probably be limited to 127GB hard drives.

It would be 10 years old.

The hard drive it came with was 6GB (I know, that's huge). It was a miniature IBM Deskstar. Pretty classy! I wish I didn't have to part it. I could have just formatted the stupid thing for my teacher... Aussies... so demanding. At least it was free. Better than nothing.

Well I'll hunt for a smaller one then, stupid BIOS, it should just IGNORE the rest of the HDD. Gah! GRRR...

[kishy]

Actually, not quite right. Extra space will be ignored in the vast majority of older systems with such limitations.

Example: CF-25 supports max of 8.4GB hard drive. I put in an 80GB, it saw the total capacity as 8.4GB.

I've yet to witness different behaviour except in the cases of really old systems which used 'drive type numbers' in the CMOS setup...those absolutely require that the drive matches one of 40-something supported geometries.

Neat system for sure (with the CD player function and so forth), but rather boring specs wise. New enough to run modern software, old enough to be very painful to do it with unfortunately. You may want to look into something called Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs. I suspect it would fly on that and is compatible with most WinXP-compatible software...just pretty limited gaming options I think.

[cchan]

Thinkpad iSeries laptops were manufactured by Acer under licence from IBM.

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:I_Series

[EverythingIBM]

Actually, not quite right. Extra space will be ignored in the vast majority of older systems with such limitations.

Example: CF-25 supports max of 8.4GB hard drive. I put in an 80GB, it saw the total capacity as 8.4GB.

I've yet to witness different behaviour except in the cases of really old systems which used 'drive type numbers' in the CMOS setup...those absolutely require that the drive matches one of 40-something supported geometries.

Neat system for sure (with the CD player function and so forth), but rather boring specs wise. New enough to run modern software, old enough to be very painful to do it with unfortunately. You may want to look into something called Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs. I suspect it would fly on that and is compatible with most WinXP-compatible software...just pretty limited gaming options I think.

Well that's what I wrote above, ch_123 was misleading me? I'LL NEVER FORGIVE YOU CH_123!

I'm not planning to run anything modern on it (that defeats the whole purpose of having a great windows 98 machine). It'll be perfect for DOS apps, writing stuff, and whatever else. I want to try rayman 1 on it.

Interestingly enough, I tried looking for other iSeries like mine (on ebay of course), and all the results brought up broken ones. So, I'm guessing not many of them are in pristine condition anymore. Good thing that Aussie kept it in a box for however long.

Thinkpad iSeries laptops were manufactured by Acer under licence from IBM.

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:I_Series

Well I don't see my model 2621 listed in there. IBM designed it, and it IS an IBM product. It does say manufactured in taiwan (which if I'm not mistaken is where acer is), but that just means whatever factory built it for IBM using IBM schematics. Acer didn't DESIGN it! It doesn't say "designed for IBM by acer". There's a fine line between design and manufacture. For example, I wouldn't care if lexmark or unicomp made me a model M, as long as it strictly follows the Model M guidelines (one of which using ABS plastic, I like ABS). But I do like having an IBM logo, it's an interesting looking logo. Nothing else like it.

[bhtooefr]

2621 is an IBM machine type. For example, my T60p is machine type 2007 (although there's several others that apply to T60ps.)

The model numbers there are just that, model numbers. Machine types can include multiple models (for example, IIRC, almost the entire X20-X24 line is type 2662, IIRC,) or multiple machine types can be in a single model.

I'm guessing it's either a 1421, 1441, or 1480. All of these are the same basic model, with different screens (ranging from worst to best,) different hard drives (1480 is best,) different amounts of RAM (1421 has 32 megs, others have 64,) different opticals (1421 has CD, others have DVD,) and the 1480 has a ThinkLight.

All of those models use ALi chipsets. Read: Acer Laboratories Incorporated. So even if IBM had a mainframe engineer design it, they used absolutely crap components. (To use your Model M example... this is like making a case that looks like a Model M case, and says IBM on it, and IBM sells it, but has a cheap $5 rubber dome inside.) But, I believe Acer designed it to IBM's specs. (There are a few i Series models hiding in there that are merely low-end versions of other ThinkPads, and they share types with those other ThinkPads. For example, the i1157 is a rebadged low-end 570E, and the i1620 is a rebadged ThinkPad X20 (type 2662, even.) Those won't have been touched by Acer.)

[EverythingIBM]

2621 is an IBM machine type. For example, my T60p is machine type 2007 (although there's several others that apply to T60ps.)

The model numbers there are just that, model numbers. Machine types can include multiple models (for example, IIRC, almost the entire X20-X24 line is type 2662, IIRC,) or multiple machine types can be in a single model.

I'm guessing it's either a 1421, 1441, or 1480. All of these are the same basic model, with different screens (ranging from worst to best,) different hard drives (1480 is best,) different amounts of RAM (1421 has 32 megs, others have 64,) different opticals (1421 has CD, others have DVD,) and the 1480 has a ThinkLight.

All of those models use ALi chipsets. Read: Acer Laboratories Incorporated. So even if IBM had a mainframe engineer design it, they used absolutely crap components. (To use your Model M example... this is like making a case that looks like a Model M case, and says IBM on it, and IBM sells it, but has a cheap $5 rubber dome inside.) But, I believe Acer designed it to IBM's specs. (There are a few i Series models hiding in there that are merely low-end versions of other ThinkPads, and they share types with those other ThinkPads. For example, the i1157 is a rebadged low-end 570E, and the i1620 is a rebadged ThinkPad X20 (type 2662, even.) Those won't have been touched by Acer.)

I believe my T60p is model 2007 as well. Which is kind of ironic because I believe they were made in 2007.
I already know about model types and models (you can see that from my signature)... however... IBM didn't put the model anywhere on the case so I was just going with the model type (that's why I posted above asking if what I put was the correct drivers because I have no way of knowing what kind of model it is). I thought it was iSeries 1500 (not 1400). I searched thinkwiki with "2621" and it came up with nothing asides from something about faulty power adapters.

Now the reason why is IBM doesn't list any of those weird model labels on their support, there's only 1400 and 1500. The IBM website told me mine was 1500 because that's the only thing 2621-541 matches with. So if you want to go by models and not model types, 1400 does not match.

It really doesn't seem like a "low end" model, the design is quite astonishing. If that's what low-end was 10 years ago, then what we're using today is total crap.
The first difference is the IBM thinkpad sticker, it almost looks like they did some kind of double-shot with it along with a transparent layer on top to protect it. It's definitely not like the IBM lenovo-made stickers which don't have that extra transparent layering.

[EverythingIBM]

Alright I was browsing around looking for other opinions on the iSeries, here's one that I found:

Acer made the horrible iSeries Laptops for IBM in the 90s

I can't possibly imagine what's so horrible about them. I found the one I got to be quite unique and sturdy. It's certainly not cheap if it's still running 10 years later with the battery being able to hold a few hours of charge...

The CMOS battery is dead, but, an ex-IBM employee told me that dead CMOS batteries are a common malady with IBM computers because they last so long. Although I could argue that my 300PL still has a good CMOS battery and it being older.
Whatever. I still think this little humble iSeries thinkpad has some life in it. The keyboard feels nice (the switches actually look superior to my T60p and feel more crisp -- not to mention the layout is way better), it's super-quiet (modern acer laptops are some of the noisiest), there's a few unique doodads, and one of the most interesting feature is that it supports AUDIO-IN not just AUDIO-OUT. I've never seen that in a laptop before.
So, here's a little pros and cons if some so desire:

Pros:
*Great keyboard with very high switches and crisp response
*The layout is superb! One windows key and one context menu key, exactly what I wanted in a keyboard as to save space.
*Cool integrated CD-player
*runs very quiet (does it run cool? I don't know yet)
*Supports Audio-in, as well as audio-out and a microphone
*has many ports including one USB port (wow!)

Cons:
*The buttons for the trackpoint aren't as crisp as the ones on my T60p (never got to try out the trackpoint, but it's very stiff, I might like that better since I hate the wobbly-ness of the Lenovo ones)
*CMOS battery is dead after 10 years (is that bad?).
*Some of the power adapters (made by delta electronics) had failures. Mine is at risk for being an affected part number, but so far it's running fine.
*No lavender enter key :tongue1:
*There are a few cracks in the plastic at a few spots, one being near the PCMCIA card due to lots of flex. The other is a tiny "shatter" near the hinge, doesn't affect the hinge in any way though. I'm going to epoxy it down.
*The built-in speakers aren't that great, and it's surprising since they are integrated into the screen (at least they're not BELOW THE PALM REST like in the T60p).

[kishy]

10 years is the rated life of most CMOS batteries assuming you've got a typical 3V lithium coin cell in there.

Might be socketed. If so, it's replaceable, likely with a CR2032 from the dollar store (have a Dollarama nearby? 3 of these batteries for a dollar).

If it's not socketed, you have other options...let's just hope it's socketed though.

[EverythingIBM]

10 years is the rated life of most CMOS batteries assuming you've got a typical 3V lithium coin cell in there.

Might be socketed. If so, it's replaceable, likely with a CR2032 from the dollar store (have a Dollarama nearby? 3 of these batteries for a dollar).

If it's not socketed, you have other options...let's just hope it's socketed though.

Interesting, I thought they were all socketed.

I checked here, and, it says only this:

CMOS Battery
Bad 4

*Backup battery (RTC
battery)
*Enter BIOS Utility and
execute "Load Setup
Default Settings"; then
reboot the system.
*System board

[ch_123]

Actually, not quite right. Extra space will be ignored in the vast majority of older systems with such limitations.

Example: CF-25 supports max of 8.4GB hard drive. I put in an 80GB, it saw the total capacity as 8.4GB.

That's what I meant but put in an ambiguous manner.

[bhtooefr]

I was also going off of the photo - no 1500 looks like that.

The specs match those of the 1441 or the 1541.

[kishy]

That's what I meant but put in an ambiguous manner.

Oops. Disregard and carry on then.

[EverythingIBM]

I was also going off of the photo - no 1500 looks like that.

The specs match those of the 1441 or the 1541.

Well I didn't mean for the photo to be 100% exactly like it. It doesn't have a japanese layout, it's the full sized spacebar.

That's what I meant but put in an ambiguous manner.

Ahhh yes... of course! Makes sense now.

[EverythingIBM]

Okay I got a 2.5 EIDE hard drive, put it in the caddy, tried shoving it into the laptop, but, it doesn't want to go in. Is there different EIDE hard drives? I can take a picture of the pins inside it, but, don't have a camera at the moment, so that'll have to wait.

[ch_123]

Is it the right height? AFAIK, the laptop IDE connector remained constant over the years.

[kishy]

Depending on age, the drive may have the normally-missing key pin (should be one missing approximately near the middle). That'll prevent it going in if the laptop has the hole blocked like it should.

Drive height would be my other guess like ch said.

[bhtooefr]

It looks like, according to page 90 of the hardware maintenance manual (page 100 of the PDF,) your machine uses a proprietary hard drive connector.

Best bet is to find a dead hard drive from another ThinkPad i Series 14xx or 15xx, that'll get you the adapter, and you can open it up and replace the hard drive.

[kishy]

Proprietary connector or proprietary interface?

If just connector, some hardware hacking may be in line...if the interface itself is something dumb, I say trash the machine or flip it on ebay or something.

[ch_123]

The connector I'd assume... No PC manufacturer would be so desperate for vendor lock-in that they'd make their own alternative to IDE...

[kishy]

The connector I'd assume... No PC manufacturer would be so desperate for vendor lock-in that they'd make their own alternative to IDE...

I've got one such IBM machine: PS/2 30 286.

Built in drive interface is entirely proprietary.

Fortunately, with it being a desktop, a SCSI card is an option...

[ch_123]

Well, I dont think IDE was established to the same extent back then as it would be when this laptop was made.

[bhtooefr]

Yeah, I'm sure it's a proprietary connector.

And those "ESDI" drives were, IIRC, Microchannel specific. As in, they used a Microchannel interface directly.

[ch_123]

It's like those 2.8MB floppy drives in the PS/2 that passed power and data over the one block of contacts.

[kishy]

Well, I dont think IDE was established to the same extent back then as it would be when this laptop was made.

True, but it did exist.

Yeah, I'm sure it's a proprietary connector.

And those "ESDI" drives were, IIRC, Microchannel specific. As in, they used a Microchannel interface directly.

Not ESDI in the 30-286...truly proprietary. No MCA in this machine at all in fact.

It's like those 2.8MB floppy drives in the PS/2 that passed power and data over the one block of contacts.

Kind of, kind of not (like the floppy interface). Kind of like it in the sense that it's unusual industry-wide, kind of not because the hard drive interface only applied to these few models whereas that floppy drive connection scheme was used in every PS/2 and some other machines as well.

There's a pinout for it (the hard drive interface) online. Completely unique to a couple models of PS/2 (30, 30 286, 25, 25 286 I believe)

[ch_123]

I assumed they were SCSI machines, but obviously this was only the higher-end models.