Author Topic: Tor and .onion discussion  (Read 6760 times)

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Offline tricheboars

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Tor and .onion discussion
« on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 18:22:01 »
I have been using tor some this week and would like to discuss the deep Web and using tor in the post-NSA world.

What do you use tor for? What are some awesome things you have found in the deep Web so far?  Do you think law abiding citizens have a place in the deep Web?
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Offline smknjoe

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 18:35:31 »
I've not used Tor myself since I like to know who I'm proxying through, but I think it's a good idea and potentially good for those who want a "ready-made" service. I wish more "average" citizens were concerned about privacy and it seems that is starting to change. However, it's been assumed for a long time before the NSA leaks that such monitoring was going on. There just wasn't any real evidence of it before.

The deep web is not anything other than parts of the web not easily indexed by most search engines.

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Offline smknjoe

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 19:16:50 »
Do you think law abiding citizens have a place in the deep Web?

If it's on the web, it's free for all to see whether it's easy to find or not. Why shouldn't law abiding citizens look at such material if they choose to?
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Offline Novus

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 19:21:19 »
I was reading about this on lifehacker on my phone earlier.
I think they said that the NSA and all those other agencies can specifically identify Tor users and easily monitor you.
I think they do specifically target Tor networks for other stuff like child porn, illegal drugs - look at the silk road takedown for example.
Also something about how the NSA injects malware directly into the Tor browser to track you.
I've heard, only in passing, from a friend who works with ex-NSA guys that anything you can list off the top of your head (vpn, tor, proxy etc) doesn't really make a difference because these agencies have already found ways around them.
Might work to stop your ISP from throttling you though =P

Offline smknjoe

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 19:29:48 »
Yeah, I've read that they (NSA) have specifically targeted Tor and it's encryption successfully. Strong crypto in general is still pretty secure and takes quite a while to crack. Something that most people and agencies wont invest the time to do since there is almost always a much easier way around the encrypted traffic. It's much easier to try to access the data in other ways using tools like spyware, keyloggers, social engineering, etc.
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Offline eddie

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 19:30:15 »
I used tor a few times just to check out the deep web but it was over all pretty boring. If you're not interested in child porn, drugs or other illegal internet things then there is not much to do. I would much rather browse geekhack or something.

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 19:35:41 »
It's way too slow even with adjustments, and has nothing that appealing to offer for me to bother with it.

Offline smknjoe

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 19:52:32 »
I still don't know why you guys are referring to "the deep web" as something illegal. Most of it's just relatively obscure or esoteric material such as research or other stuff that most people aren't interested in. Some of the data found may be illicit, but the vast majority of it is not.
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Offline Puddsy

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 20:16:17 »
I still don't know why you guys are referring to "the deep web" as something illegal. Most of it's just relatively obscure or esoteric material such as research or other stuff that most people aren't interested in. Some of the data found may be illicit, but the vast majority of it is not.

This

If you've ever spent some time on the deepweb, you're more like to find some weird science stuff than CP.
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Offline Pacifist

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 20:21:09 »
I still don't know why you guys are referring to "the deep web" as something illegal. Most of it's just relatively obscure or esoteric material such as research or other stuff that most people aren't interested in. Some of the data found may be illicit, but the vast majority of it is not.

This

If you've ever spent some time on the deepweb, you're more like to find some weird science stuff than CP.

Science???

Offline smknjoe

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 21:05:27 »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Web

I remember the days before search engines were popular and the entire Internet was "The Deep Web." You really had to know exactly where you wanted to go or rely on links from other sites. Search engines didn't really start catching on until 15 years ago or so.

All you have to do to create a "Deep Website" is don't add any SEO or link to any other sites. Bam, you're deep baby!
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Offline PointyFox

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 21:09:27 »
Illicit science.

Offline Novus

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 21:33:56 »

Offline antCB

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 23:25:35 »
I used tor a few times just to check out the deep web but it was over all pretty boring. If you're not interested in child porn, drugs or other illegal internet things then there is not much to do. I would much rather browse geekhack or something.

i successfully used it to get some programming e-books that are hard to find on the "regular" internet :) . not a fan of gore, drugs or child porn...

still illicit, but not as bad as other stuff going on.. also it is very easy to find academic research "papers"/articles (written by people taking master degrees and doctorates, that seemed very interesting!)
« Last Edit: Fri, 21 February 2014, 23:28:25 by antCB »
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Offline Rena

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 23:34:33 »
  Do you think law abiding citizens have a place in the deep Web?
I don't understand what this means. The "deep web" was not created for illicit purposes, in fact the project itself was originally sponsored by the US navy. It's purpose is for those who are restricted by censorship to use the internet freely and anonymously so it certainly does have a very, very important place of use for a "law abiding citizen". It's the tor network's inherent anonymous functionality that makes it ideal for criminals as well.

Some may say that the NSA has access to most all tor exit nodes but considering the amount of exit nodes there are it's almost inconceivable. There have been java exploits implemented into tor browsers and networks by the NSA, but it would be absurd to say that's compromising the network, and honestly you would deserve it for using java with tor anyway.

Offline eddie

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 22 February 2014, 01:02:40 »
  Do you think law abiding citizens have a place in the deep Web?
I don't understand what this means. The "deep web" was not created for illicit purposes, in fact the project itself was originally sponsored by the US navy. It's purpose is for those who are restricted by censorship to use the internet freely and anonymously so it certainly does have a very, very important place of use for a "law abiding citizen". It's the tor network's inherent anonymous functionality that makes it ideal for criminals as well.
I think you are mixing up tor and deep web?

Offline nubbinator

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 22 February 2014, 01:09:03 »
I think they do specifically target Tor networks for other stuff like child porn, illegal drugs - look at the silk road takedown for example.

Wait, people use Tor for stuff other than CP and drugs within the U.S.?  I don't use it because there's nothing I do that warrants me trying to be super secret.

Offline baldgye

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 22 February 2014, 01:10:13 »
I like how people cling on to the concept of privacy like it's something that's even possible on the web

Offline Rena

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 22 February 2014, 01:13:13 »
  Do you think law abiding citizens have a place in the deep Web?
I don't understand what this means. The "deep web" was not created for illicit purposes, in fact the project itself was originally sponsored by the US navy. It's purpose is for those who are restricted by censorship to use the internet freely and anonymously so it certainly does have a very, very important place of use for a "law abiding citizen". It's the tor network's inherent anonymous functionality that makes it ideal for criminals as well.
I think you are mixing up tor and deep web?
Oh yeah I sort of did, but a certain extent of the deep web is a component of the tor network. I kind of switched them around oddly in my post but the OP addressed both of them either way.

Offline smknjoe

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 22 February 2014, 01:32:23 »
I like how people cling on to the concept of privacy like it's something that's even possible on the web

...from the land of more surveillance cameras than people. ;)

It's silly to assume that you have any privacy at all on the web, but relative privacy is attainable with some effort. I'm more concerned about security myself and lack of said security at companies we do business with.
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Offline baldgye

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 22 February 2014, 03:53:13 »
I like how people cling on to the concept of privacy like it's something that's even possible on the web

...from the land of more surveillance cameras than people. ;)

It's silly to assume that you have any privacy at all on the web, but relative privacy is attainable with some effort. I'm more concerned about security myself and lack of said security at companies we do business with.

Yeah the UK is a sick joke really, websites with porn are blocked torrent sites are blocked... All thanks to idiots and morons who have no concept of what or how the Internet works or how they should do there jobs are parents... But alas

Yeah security and privacy are diffrent things, but in light of what the NSA, GCHQ and other nations will are are doing to monitor Internet traffic, the mere notion of privacy is laughable. You can try and use Tor and other encrypted network protocols if you like but that won't actually do much other than limit your own capabilities online.
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 22 February 2014, 09:08:32 »
The main problem with tor is it is only secure in the middle of the network. There is nothing stopping agencies like the NSA from running exit nodes and capturing all the traffic that comes through it, and you know they are. As said most of the so called 'deep web' is nothing more than obscure sites. All one has to do is add the noindex, nofollow to stop most webcrawlers from indexing your site to search engines and there you are in the deep web.

When it comes down to it on your end, there is essentially nothing you can do. When governments control the backbone, there is nothing stopping them from doing whatever they want with the traffic passing through it. I've long believed they have been monitoring it, intercepting/injecting traffic at backbone facilities. Do I accept that I can't really do anything about it as an individual... sure. Does that make my life happier... **** no. I view the whole thing as a violation of my rights, with them effectively doing virtual search and seizure on a global blanket scale because someone, somewhere might be up to something. Our rights should be the same in virtual space as it is in real space.
The best thing we can do is raise awareness, and perhaps Joe Average will at one point get a clue and start caring also.
« Last Edit: Sat, 22 February 2014, 09:10:30 by IvanIvanovich »

Offline bueller

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 22 February 2014, 09:29:28 »
The main problem with tor is it is only secure in the middle of the network. There is nothing stopping agencies like the NSA from running exit nodes and capturing all the traffic that comes through it, and you know they are.

Yep. And considering the amounts of money they channel into national security in first world countries I don't think it's unreasonable to think they would  own a fairly decent sized cluster of exit nodes. There is no such thing as privacy on the internet, the amount of data mining going on would blow people's minds. I even heard the other day that Facebook captures all keystrokes entered within text boxes even if it isn't submitted. Don't know how true that is but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
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Offline katushkin

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 18 March 2014, 15:15:37 »
I'm going to revive this with a really stupid question.

I downloaded Tor a while ago, and I opened the browser and was just like - now what? I have no idea where to start. Is there a search engine for tor?

I just have no idea what I'm doing.
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Offline Smasher816

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 20 March 2014, 22:52:18 »
You can browse the internet just like you normally would; except that your external IP will be randomized, much like a proxy/vpn.

I know there are some wiki pages and other places where you can find ".onion" sites for the more hidden "deep web" stuff. Although, I am unsure of all the details.

Offline katushkin

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 20 March 2014, 23:05:11 »
You can browse the internet just like you normally would; except that your external IP will be randomized, much like a proxy/vpn.

I know there are some wiki pages and other places where you can find ".onion" sites for the more hidden "deep web" stuff. Although, I am unsure of all the details.

Mmm. It would be nice to know. You know, out of curiosity. I'm guessing it isn't as simple as "www.silkroad2.onion"
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Offline Smasher816

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 21 March 2014, 00:09:32 »
You can browse the internet just like you normally would; except that your external IP will be randomized, much like a proxy/vpn.

I know there are some wiki pages and other places where you can find ".onion" sites for the more hidden "deep web" stuff. Although, I am unsure of all the details.

Mmm. It would be nice to know. You know, out of curiosity. I'm guessing it isn't as simple as "www.silkroad2.onion"

Not sure if it is up to date or anything, but a quick google search found this.

http://www.thehiddenwiki.net/tor-links-directory/

Offline katushkin

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 21 March 2014, 00:14:56 »

Not sure if it is up to date or anything, but a quick google search found this.

http://www.thehiddenwiki.net/tor-links-directory/

:) thanks! Looks like a good place to start
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Offline tricheboars

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 21 March 2014, 14:18:11 »
so i have been playing with tor for a few weeks now. i dont see much on there besides illegal ****, i am not sure what you guys are talking about in regards to science. i use JSTOR and other academic journals to look into shiz like that. any of the science i have found on tor is whack conspiracy theories about government weather control and DIA is a FEMA CAMP crap. i just cant think of a reason a researcher would want to publish credible work to .onion rather than a sci journal.

however one thing that is of great interest to me is setting up a tor bridge on the amazon cloud services for free (for 1 year).  basically setting this up and then sharing the address would allow people in places like Turkey, Iran, China, Egypt, etc. be able to access the web through my bridge. Since amazon is not blocked in these countries they can bypass their bull**** firewalls.

i will indeed set this up if i feel there is a need to do so. until then tor is a backup plan for me. something i want to learn about in the event of a US crackdown on the web. sure NSA **** is bull**** beyond imagine now but i can still access anything i want. ugh. **** the nsa. i get so upset just thinking about them trashing our digital rights under the guise of "terrorism is bad!".  what really gets me upset is the encryption breaking tools the NSA is reported to have. things that can blast through SSL like butter. these tools wont stay secret for long. **** nothing ever stays secret for long. so when these tools land in the hands of criminals then online banking is a risky move.

i use the work for the Department of Defense and Northrop Grumman. I love this country. i friggin love it. with that said i really wish i didnt have to read up on tor and experiment with it.

« Last Edit: Fri, 21 March 2014, 14:22:00 by tricheboars »
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Offline Ally

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 26 May 2014, 12:01:39 »
I USE A TOR BROWSER.. WHATS WRONG WITH THAT?

Offline paicrai

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #30 on: Mon, 26 May 2014, 12:15:16 »
child porn, drugs, whatever else illegal, i want all that weird **** off my planet
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Offline mkawa

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #31 on: Mon, 26 May 2014, 20:20:09 »
tor and other group anonymity services aren't about hiding your data but about hiding your endpoint. the tor network sentinels publish their exit nodes and prioritize low latency high speed exit nodes, so it's not all that hard to tell, AS THE ENDPOINT, whether someone is using tor and in some cases the data they're sending (onion routing encrypts _routes_ not data). further, while tor exit nodes are published, tor _entry_ nodes are not, as anyone running an onion router can be an entry node. hence, the point of crowd anonymity is:

a) the endpoint doesn't know _who_ in the tor network is sending the data unless the host unmasks itself. it cannot analyze the route, because it only knows the route from the exit node.

b) what is far more important from the perspective of the tor inventors and maintainers is that a network monitor which only has visibility of the pre-exit-node overlay network and the host cannot tell where the host is sending packets, and ideally, whether a given host is part of the onion routing network (although this is a property that can easily collapse -- it is often protected by sheer numbers).

the tor maintainers prioritize the ability for MONITORED HOSTS to leave a MONITORED NETWORK without giving away their data's destination. while onion routing has other properties that can be maintained with varying implementation details, this is the priority that the tor maintainers focus on.

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Offline baldgye

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 27 May 2014, 07:50:52 »
I still get bummed out the deep web isn't some cmd line only driven hyper encrypted networking stuff that's all stored on minidiscs you hide in books... I really like The Matrix...

Offline inteli722

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #33 on: Tue, 27 May 2014, 08:22:41 »
I really only use Tor to bypass my schools bull censor. This site is banned, for the word hack in the url, and I've had articles about 3D printing and Virgin Galactic banned for the keywords "model" and "virgin" respectively. Never been on a .onion site.

I get blocking porn, but scorched earth is ridiculous, especially when it fails to block all porn.
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Offline osi

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #34 on: Tue, 27 May 2014, 08:30:43 »
I used TOR for a dropbox account project. It worked well. Other than that, I have no needs for the deep

Offline katushkin

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #35 on: Thu, 29 May 2014, 04:19:40 »
I would just like to be able to use it full stop. Someone posted a link to a guide in the other tor thread we had on here, but none of the links on there worked when pasted into my browser.

I would just like to be able to see what it's all about tbh.
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Offline tricheboars

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #36 on: Thu, 29 May 2014, 11:43:56 »
I would just like to be able to use it full stop. Someone posted a link to a guide in the other tor thread we had on here, but none of the links on there worked when pasted into my browser.

I would just like to be able to see what it's all about tbh.

just download the tor browser and start your journey.  dont run torrents on your tor connection please.
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Offline katushkin

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #37 on: Fri, 30 May 2014, 05:48:42 »
I've got it already, but I just don't know where to go.

Nah, I don't do that. I'm not that bothered about my ISP finding out I torrent, they will just send me a letter anyway and nothing else will happen.
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Offline Kayla

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Re: Tor and .onion discussion
« Reply #38 on: Fri, 30 May 2014, 11:46:44 »
Yeah, I've read that they (NSA) have specifically targeted Tor and it's encryption successfully.
But.. tor is like a cypher. Its encryption is to send bits of data to a lot of places then end up at a designated (or random) location. >_> Tor is uncompromised and will remain uncompromised. You can only target where the data ends up and if youre an intelligent tor user you can configure end points. If you aren't an idiot, you are safe under an onion.

What people forget is the middle man does not get all the data, only pieces.
« Last Edit: Fri, 30 May 2014, 11:51:45 by Kayla »