Is Signature Plastics worth it? How else to find vintage looking keycaps?

[Justins7]

I am a bit new at this, but I desperately want/need a set of vintage-looking Cherry-compatible keycaps like what Signature Plastics offers. I used these kind of keys back in the 80s, so it's a return to my childhood (my father used to have Compugraphic typesetting computers that had similar keycaps and I used to play with them as a child).

However, I find the whole process a bit daunting. Signature Plastics/Pimpmykeyboard NEVER has a full set available. Are you supposed to just wait for a group buy on Massdrop? Any suggestions on this for a novice?

I know they have some custom options available. But there have been numerous complaints online about their quality control, and the prices are pretty absurdly high.

It’s frustrating that it’s really hard to get a hold of these keysets, which are also really expensive. I mean, it’s plastic after all. Yes, I know, PBT, doubleshot, small batches, etc.. But it’s still just plastic, probably $3 worth for the $100 you spend.

It makes me think of Lego toys. Why can’t we have keycaps like those? They have really tight tolerances for consumer-grade plastic in many colors, and boxes of hundreds of colored pieces sell for $20-50 and up. I realize that Lego is a huge operation — but wait, so is SP (they have large corporate clients). SP just seems like a rip-off. What a business model! Sell really limited batches of plastic for really high prices - toys for adults.

Any recommendations on ways to actually GET one of their sets? Or should I just go and get a custom keys instead (WASD Keyboards for example)? Any opinions?

Thanks!

[zslane]

You have two choices:

1. Wait and watch for a group buy (either on MassDrop or through the numerous smaller, independent GB agents who advertise in the IC forum here).
2. Buy a used set from someone selling theirs.

Both strategies require lots and lots of patience, and constant vigilance.

These sets are hard to come by because they represent a niche of a niche, and so each set gets made only once (usually) and in relatively small quantities (500 sets is miniscule compared to the millions that get pumped out for typical consumer keyboards).

[Niomosy]

Depends on what profile you're looking for. 

If you want spherical keycaps, Signature Plastics sets are your primary choice.  You can also check out en.zfrontier.com or http://www.kbdist.com and see about getting a MaxKeys set which is pretty much Signature Plastics SA profile caps.

If you want cylindrical Cherry style caps, check out originativeco.com for a few GMK sets - GMK has the old Cherry molds.

[SpAmRaY]

You could buy these

https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2076

[hking0036]

I am a bit new at this, but I desperately want/need a set of vintage-looking Cherry-compatible keycaps like what Signature Plastics offers. I used these kind of keys back in the 80s, so it's a return to my childhood (my father used to have Compugraphic typesetting computers that had similar keycaps and I used to play with them as a child).

However, I find the whole process a bit daunting. Signature Plastics/Pimpmykeyboard NEVER has a full set available. Are you supposed to just wait for a group buy on Massdrop? Any suggestions on this for a novice?

I know they have some custom options available. But there have been numerous complaints online about their quality control, and the prices are pretty absurdly high.

It’s frustrating that it’s really hard to get a hold of these keysets, which are also really expensive. I mean, it’s plastic after all. Yes, I know, PBT, doubleshot, small batches, etc.. But it’s still just plastic, probably $3 worth for the $100 you spend.

It makes me think of Lego toys. Why can’t we have keycaps like those? They have really tight tolerances for consumer-grade plastic in many colors, and boxes of hundreds of colored pieces sell for $20-50 and up. I realize that Lego is a huge operation — but wait, so is SP (they have large corporate clients). SP just seems like a rip-off. What a business model! Sell really limited batches of plastic for really high prices - toys for adults.

Any recommendations on ways to actually GET one of their sets? Or should I just go and get a custom keys instead (WASD Keyboards for example)? Any opinions?

Thanks!

SP are the only ones with molds fit to do doubleshot sphericals other than the cheap Filco ones. If you really want you can watch the classifieds or massdrop/pmk, but either of those is going to take waiting, and if you're going to do that you may as well wait and find a colorway you like. SA doubleshots are booked through for the next 12-18 months so I'm sure you'll see plenty coming along. In terms of cost, SP really isn't that bad. When they do have QC issues they're quick to fix them and in my experience their sets are perfectly fine. Compared to GMK sets SP is cheap, and they're made of the same material. Injection molding as a process is pricy. If you went back a few years you'd see that GMK wouldn't even do group buys for a while. If you choose to take the WASD route you're going to get paper thin cylindricals with lasered legends. If that's what you want, go for it, but as far as sphericals go SP provides the best service.

[pomk]

I am a bit new at this, but I desperately want/need a set of vintage-looking Cherry-compatible keycaps like what Signature Plastics offers. I used these kind of keys back in the 80s, so it's a return to my childhood (my father used to have Compugraphic typesetting computers that had similar keycaps and I used to play with them as a child).

However, I find the whole process a bit daunting. Signature Plastics/Pimpmykeyboard NEVER has a full set available. Are you supposed to just wait for a group buy on Massdrop? Any suggestions on this for a novice?

I know they have some custom options available. But there have been numerous complaints online about their quality control, and the prices are pretty absurdly high.

It’s frustrating that it’s really hard to get a hold of these keysets, which are also really expensive. I mean, it’s plastic after all. Yes, I know, PBT, doubleshot, small batches, etc.. But it’s still just plastic, probably $3 worth for the $100 you spend.

It makes me think of Lego toys. Why can’t we have keycaps like those? They have really tight tolerances for consumer-grade plastic in many colors, and boxes of hundreds of colored pieces sell for $20-50 and up. I realize that Lego is a huge operation — but wait, so is SP (they have large corporate clients). SP just seems like a rip-off. What a business model! Sell really limited batches of plastic for really high prices - toys for adults.

Any recommendations on ways to actually GET one of their sets? Or should I just go and get a custom keys instead (WASD Keyboards for example)? Any opinions?

Thanks!

SP are the only ones with molds fit to do doubleshot sphericals other than the cheap Filco ones. If you really want you can watch the classifieds or massdrop/pmk, but either of those is going to take waiting, and if you're going to do that you may as well wait and find a colorway you like. In terms of cost, SP really isn't that bad. When they do have QC issues they're quick to fix them and in my experience their sets are perfectly fine. Compared to GMK sets SP is cheap, and they're made of the same material. If you went back a few years you'd see that GMK wouldn't even do group buys for a while. If you choose to take the WASD route you're going to get paper thin cylindricals with lasered legends. If that's what you want, go for it, but as far as sphericals go SP provides the best service.

The 'cheap' Filco sets are made by SP from the same molds as any SA set. The WASD sets are printed, not lasered (full color vs. monochrome). GMK is cheaper per key when compared to SP SA sets. SP just allows for lower MOQ and thus the sets can be split into kits, which will then result as a 'cheaper' TKL set. If you compare GMK prices to a SP SA kits with the same compatibility, the GMK set will be cheaper.

[hking0036]

I am a bit new at this, but I desperately want/need a set of vintage-looking Cherry-compatible keycaps like what Signature Plastics offers. I used these kind of keys back in the 80s, so it's a return to my childhood (my father used to have Compugraphic typesetting computers that had similar keycaps and I used to play with them as a child).

However, I find the whole process a bit daunting. Signature Plastics/Pimpmykeyboard NEVER has a full set available. Are you supposed to just wait for a group buy on Massdrop? Any suggestions on this for a novice?

I know they have some custom options available. But there have been numerous complaints online about their quality control, and the prices are pretty absurdly high.

It’s frustrating that it’s really hard to get a hold of these keysets, which are also really expensive. I mean, it’s plastic after all. Yes, I know, PBT, doubleshot, small batches, etc.. But it’s still just plastic, probably $3 worth for the $100 you spend.

It makes me think of Lego toys. Why can’t we have keycaps like those? They have really tight tolerances for consumer-grade plastic in many colors, and boxes of hundreds of colored pieces sell for $20-50 and up. I realize that Lego is a huge operation — but wait, so is SP (they have large corporate clients). SP just seems like a rip-off. What a business model! Sell really limited batches of plastic for really high prices - toys for adults.

Any recommendations on ways to actually GET one of their sets? Or should I just go and get a custom keys instead (WASD Keyboards for example)? Any opinions?

Thanks!

SP are the only ones with molds fit to do doubleshot sphericals other than the cheap Filco ones. If you really want you can watch the classifieds or massdrop/pmk, but either of those is going to take waiting, and if you're going to do that you may as well wait and find a colorway you like. In terms of cost, SP really isn't that bad. When they do have QC issues they're quick to fix them and in my experience their sets are perfectly fine. Compared to GMK sets SP is cheap, and they're made of the same material. If you went back a few years you'd see that GMK wouldn't even do group buys for a while. If you choose to take the WASD route you're going to get paper thin cylindricals with lasered legends. If that's what you want, go for it, but as far as sphericals go SP provides the best service.

The 'cheap' Filco sets are made by SP from the same molds as any SA set. The WASD sets are printed, not lasered (full color vs. monochrome). GMK is cheaper per key when compared to SP SA sets. SP just allows for lower MOQ and thus the sets can be split into kits, which will then result as a 'cheaper' TKL set. If you compare GMK prices to a SP SA kits with the same compatibility, the GMK set will be cheaper.

I understand the Filcos are injection molded, I wasn't implying the caps themselves were cheaply made as they are comparatively to a full SA set. the WASD thing is my mistake. As for GMK, bringing a per key pricing into play is kind of irrelevant considering the quantity of compatibility options most include - a number of people don't have use for all the iso keys and non-standard keys. The thing that caught me was the comparison of SP to Lego, which I think is a pretty big exaggeration. I understand keysets being expensive might put people off but there's more to it than just milking cash. Certainly, profit is the end goal, but you're paying for the service just as much as you're paying for the product at the end of the line. You can buy all the raw plastic in the world and not come out with a good set of caps if you don't have the tools to make them.

[pomk]

I understand the Filcos are injection molded, I wasn't implying the caps themselves were cheaply made as they are comparatively to a full SA set.

They are a full SA set. Made by signature plastics.
If you have a standard ansi TKL or a 60% that uses just the caps from the standard ansi layout, then yes it costs less to get a SP SA set. With numpad, or just a short shift in your 60, the prices are suddenly almost the same.

[xtrafrood]

For the moment Signature Plastics offers the most cost effected tried and true equivalent of the real deal. Ordering a set is probably cheaper than the real thing though. Shipping a beamspring board can be extremely expensive from what I've heard especially if you want something like a IBM 5100. Even a Selectric type writer can set you back $150 USD (exluding $30+ USD shipping). Sculpted PBT sets will be the bee's knees if PMK/SP decides to tune their equipment for it.

[Justins7]

SA doubleshots are booked through for the next 12-18 months so I'm sure you'll see plenty coming along.

Do you recommend just watching the pimpmykeyboard site for these?

How about ordering the custom sets? http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dsa-sublimated-keycap-sets/
It seems like people have good experience with these, but I am wondering how they compare with the other sets that seem to go so quickly. (I prefer the white type they offer with the SA doubleshot sets.)

I do have a custom WASD set that I ordered with my keyboard from WASD. It's fine, but it's interesting to hear them described as "paper thin" (I didn't know there was that much of a difference.)

Thank you for all your help!

[hking0036]

SA doubleshots are booked through for the next 12-18 months so I'm sure you'll see plenty coming along.

Do you recommend just watching the pimpmykeyboard site for these?

How about ordering the custom sets? http://pimpmykeyboard.com/dsa-sublimated-keycap-sets/
It seems like people have good experience with these, but I am wondering how they compare with the other sets that seem to go so quickly. (I prefer the white type they offer with the SA doubleshot sets.)

I do have a custom WASD set that I ordered with my keyboard from WASD. It's fine, but it's interesting to hear them described as "paper thin" (I didn't know there was that much of a difference.)

Thank you for all your help!

Pimpmykeyboard has some, Massdrop runs others, and some like Originative run them as well. If you keep an eye out you'll see them as they come. The custom DSA Dyesubs are fine if you like DSA, personally I don't really care for it but that's up to you to decide. Just keep in mind, SA is very tall, DSA is very short. I got a WASD first but if you compare the density of an SP doubleshot set or even topre stock caps they're very thin and hollow sounding to type on. They do provide pretty great control over letting people custom print, though.

For example, here's a picture of some caps I have:

More

From left to right, WASD, $40 Tai-Hao PBT Doubleshots, Realforce stock, and an SA doubleshot.

[zslane]

Almost two years ago, I started with a custom set of WASD keycaps too, and then I bought someone's used SA set and was shocked at the difference. It is night and day. SA is thick and solid and just screams high quality by comparison to WASD keycaps, not to mention the fact that SA is spherical instead of cylindrical (full disclosure: I am a total spherical keycap nut; I hate cylindrical keycaps with the white hot passion of a million suns).

It is rare that a fully sculptured SA set comes up for sale on PMK. They are generally run through MassDrop, Keyclack, Originative, and a few others in the community. Unless you're willing to gamble on Chinese knock-offs, or buy the Filco set, you won't be able to just hop onto a website and buy a set; they aren't kept in inventory anywhere like regular product.

DSA sets are a slightly different story in that PMK keeps generic dye-sublimated sets in inventory all the time. It is a great way to get medium-height, uniform profile, spherical dye-sub PBT keycaps immediately. Of course, not everyone loves that keycap family, but I like it quite a bit. I suggest you seriously check out Granite on PMK; it is perhaps the most popular spherical keycap set made in the modern era. And for good reason. It has an elegant, timeless quality thanks to Matt3o's terrific design sensibilities.

[drakche]

 Take a quick look at zFrontier. They have some retro Honeywell esque maxkeys sa keycaps. 75$+shipping

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[ChitownM2]

Take a quick look at zFrontier. They have some retro Honeywell esque maxkeys sa keycaps. 75$+shipping

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Have you purchased any of the Maxkey sets? I'm wondering how they are quality wise...

[justinmtype]

7bit has a Group Buy.

Might take a while.   )

[drakche]

Take a quick look at zFrontier. They have some retro Honeywell esque maxkeys sa keycaps. 75$+shipping

Sent from my Redmi Pro using Tapatalk

Have you purchased any of the Maxkey sets? I'm wondering how they are quality wise...

I've joined the ashen gb.

From what I've seen, it's totally acceptable for me.

And zFrontier is a legit company. It's like Chinese originative.

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[chuckdee]

7bit has a Group Buy.

Might take a while.   )

Actually, there is existing stock also.  That's shipping now.

[Justins7]

Has anyone ordered from 7bit before?

[Puddsy]

Has anyone ordered from 7bit before?

7bit is super legit. Was the only supplier of piecemeal MX switches for a while.

He's not always the fastest, but he's reliable.

[Justins7]

Wow, 7bit's list is pretty insane. I'm just trying to understand it all...

[zslane]

I have three keysets from 7bit's Round 6 (phase 1). His group buys take forever (years, in fact), but there are no acceptable alternatives.

[DuckNorris]

You have two choices:

1. Wait and watch for a group buy (either on MassDrop or through the numerous smaller, independent GB agents who advertise in the IC forum here).
2. Buy a used set from someone selling theirs.

Both strategies require lots and lots of patience, and constant vigilance.

These sets are hard to come by because they represent a niche of a niche, and so each set gets made only once (usually) and in relatively small quantities (500 sets is miniscule compared to the millions that get pumped out for typical consumer keyboards).

Summarized it the best.

Took a lot for me to finally get me a Pulse SA set.A lot of patience. 

[ChitownM2]

Take a quick look at zFrontier. They have some retro Honeywell esque maxkeys sa keycaps. 75$+shipping

Sent from my Redmi Pro using Tapatalk

Have you purchased any of the Maxkey sets? I'm wondering how they are quality wise...

I've joined the ashen gb.

From what I've seen, it's totally acceptable for me.

And zFrontier is a legit company. It's like Chinese originative.

Sent from my Redmi Pro using Tapatalk

I joined the GB last night as well. We'll see how it goes, but for the price I think I will be satisfied based upon the pics I saw of their cyan run.

[digi]

SP kits are trash. Save your money and get GMK or dye-sub's.

[ArchDill]

Check out the new Max Keys SA. However, go GMK or PBT Dye sub. I really like my GMK. My next purchase will most likely be some PBT though.

[Niomosy]

SP kits are trash. Save your money and get GMK or dye-sub's.

Depends on what you want.  SP is the heavy hitter if you want spherical caps and we have many here that heavily prefer spherical caps.  That and the flat G20 caps offer some unique options such as the Semiotic set.  For cylindrical, sure, GMK works and I personally like them but SP caps are far from trash.

[sth]

Wow, 7bit's list is pretty insane. I'm just trying to understand it all...

make sure to check out the deskthority wiki - it can help make a bit more sense of 7bot's insanity. but another +1 for 7bit's reliability. just be ready to wait.

[Puddsy]

SP kits are trash. Save your money and get GMK or dye-sub's.

I disagree, I like DCS a lot. I've been using GMK daily for years, but I still break out a DCS set now and then.

[justinmtype]

7bit is having some funding problems for Round 7.  Be sure to do your research first.

[justinmtype]

7bit is having some funding problems for Round 7.  Be sure to do your research first.

https://deskthority.net/group-buys-f50/round-7-algol-style-spherical-keys-t14580-510.html#p359526

[zslane]

To be clear, 7bit had funding problems for the second half of Round 6, but that has been solved.

The issue with Round 7 is that Signature Plastics has declined to run it. 7bit holds out hope that he will be able to change their minds.

[Niomosy]

Isn't the decline to run simply because of the backlog?

[zslane]

No.

[Niomosy]

No.

Wasn't quite sure on that.  Hopefully 7-bit can continue to run them as they're generally very popular with some popular colorway choices with some neat extras or unique alphas.

[drakche]

Take a quick look at zFrontier. They have some retro Honeywell esque maxkeys sa keycaps. 75$+shipping

Sent from my Redmi Pro using Tapatalk

Have you purchased any of the Maxkey sets? I'm wondering how they are quality wise...

I've joined the ashen gb.

From what I've seen, it's totally acceptable for me.

And zFrontier is a legit company. It's like Chinese originative.

Sent from my Redmi Pro using Tapatalk

I joined the GB last night as well. We'll see how it goes, but for the price I think I will be satisfied based upon the pics I saw of their cyan run.

IDK if you've seen the samples.
They already started making the sets and the GB isn't even done yet.

[Minnie2]

You have two choices:

1. Wait and watch for a group buy (either on MassDrop or through the numerous smaller, independent GB agents who advertise in the IC forum here).
2. Buy a used set from someone selling theirs.

Both strategies require lots and lots of patience, and constant vigilance.

These sets are hard to come by because they represent a niche of a niche, and so each set gets made only once (usually) and in relatively small quantities (500 sets is miniscule compared to the millions that get pumped out for typical consumer keyboards).

U have A rational view

[merlin64]

Signatures Plastics is definitely worth it if...
1. You got the cash
2. You can wait

If not, you can try joining any of the currently running MaxKey group buys that are essentially SA profile made in China. I believe Originative, Zfrontier, and Keyclack are running GBs at this moment!

[drakche]

Signatures Plastics is definitely worth it if...
1. You got the cash
2. You can wait

If not, you can try joining any of the currently running MaxKey group buys that are essentially SA profile made in China. I believe Originative, Zfrontier, and Keyclack are running GBs at this moment!

I read somewhere that they're actually using the old French molds that SP was using until they updated them.

I /r/MK user posted the whole history of the odld SA molds somewhere. But alas, I can't find that post now.

[merlin64]

That would be a great thread to post up here. I'm searching for it too, can't seem to find it.

[potatobot]

DSAs are worth the wait everytime 

[drakche]

That would be a great thread to post up here. I'm searching for it too, can't seem to find it.

Found it
https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/5ykwey/group_buy_sa_max_ashen_from_maxkey_zfrontier/dert4r9/

Signature Plastics is derived from Comptec, a French company that made keycaps. They were going to shutdown the American operation and the employees bought it to continue running. About one year ago (actually exactly 51 weeks ago) the French operation was shut down: http://www.ladepeche.fr/article/2016/03/17/2305799-polemique-sur-la-fermeture-de-la-societe-comptec.html (article in French)

Given that some of the old, well-known defects from SP legends are also present here, I wouldn't be surprised if these Chinese keycaps are being made using the original molds from the French company. In that case, those would be original SA keycaps, in the same way that GMK keycaps are original Cherry.

I agree with the OP that it's quite possible that Maxkeys acquired the decommissioned molds from Comtec after closing in 2016, which is about the same time they arrived on scene.

[drakche]

Some more info:
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Comptec

http://keycapsdirect.com/aboutus.php

It even says on the about us page on Signature Plastics.

[zslane]

I could see how MaxKeys might have acquired the old French tooling. It made absolutely no sense that they acquired anything from SP.

[justinmtype]

Why wouldn't most manufacturers have similar defects?  Doesn't prove the molds are the same.

Sounds like false news.

[potatobot]

Why wouldn't most manufacturers have similar defects?  Doesn't prove the molds are the same.

Sounds like false news.

AFAIK, previous rounds of SP SA keycaps had similar kerning issues.

[drakche]

jChan posted a comparison on /r/mk of Maxkeys and Hack by Geeks set.
the kerning is exactly the same apart from the old BACK SPACE vs BACKSPACE

identical modifiers and everything.

And since SP was the only one making SA keycaps this is either a perfectly executed copy job or those are the same old Comtec molds.

The Comptec molds theory sounds more plausible IMHO.

[zslane]

And since SP was the only one making SA keycaps this is either a perfectly executed copy job or those are the same old Comtec molds.

The Comptec molds theory sounds more plausible IMHO.

SP was not the only ones making SA keycaps. A French division of Comptec presumably used to make them as well at one time. I agree that it is plausible MaxKeys acquired the French tooling.

[ChitownM2]

jChan posted a comparison on /r/mk of Maxkeys and Hack by Geeks set.
the kerning is exactly the same apart from the old BACK SPACE vs BACKSPACE

identical modifiers and everything.

And since SP was the only one making SA keycaps this is either a perfectly executed copy job or those are the same old Comtec molds.

The Comptec molds theory sounds more plausible IMHO.

That makes a lot of sense. Comptec had two sets of identical molds, one for each location of their company. The US location/division was shut down and the assets purchased by the employees which formed SP (a while ago). Last year, what was left of Comptec in france shut down and their assets were purchased by Maxkeys.

[Puddsy]

maxkeys also has SHIF T vs SP's SHIFT

and CAPS LOC K vs CAPS LOCK

little bits that just need to get ironed out

you think it doesn't bother you but the crappy tab legend on my OLD Olivetti set makes me sad when i look at it

[drakche]

maxkeys also has SHIF T vs SP's SHIFT

and CAPS LOC K vs CAPS LOCK

little bits that just need to get ironed out

you think it doesn't bother you but the crappy tab legend on my OLD Olivetti set makes me sad when i look at it

Didn't note the caps lock issue.
And the shift is the same on all comparisons I've see.

Someone posted a side by side comparison with hacked by geeks.

The shifts are exactly the same.

Maybe it updated on dyesubbed legends.

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