Author Topic: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?  (Read 6371 times)

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Offline VanGhost

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Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 09:57:33 »
I just tried extending the feet on my Filco and it totally got rid of the ping. Since I don't rest my hands on the table top while typing there isn't really any strain from having the keys a little higher.

What do you guys do?

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 10:02:16 »
Flat because the steeper angle from the legs ****s with my hands and typing style.

Offline slip84

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 10:04:12 »
HHKB: Flat
Poker II: both in Tex cases, so rubber feet

I used to do the feet on my HHKB, but I feel the angle is too aggressive since switching to the Tex cases on my Poker II boards.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 10:04:48 »
extended

Offline ideus

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 10:08:14 »
Flat and with a spacebar under the front of the keyboard to tilt it backwards. The best to avoid wrist pain, or carpal tunnel development.

Online azhdar

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 10:10:36 »
flat
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Offline mougrim

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 10:22:33 »
Extended all the way.
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Offline inanis

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 10:27:01 »
Flat
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Offline Computer-Lab in Basement

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 10:32:17 »
there have been many similar threads in the past... ergonomically, they say flat is better.

i keep them flat
tp thread is tp thread
Sometimes it's like he accidentally makes a thread instead of a google search.

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Offline ideus

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 10:41:38 »
Make a poll to add value to a thread on a recurring subject

Offline Tactile

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 10:49:58 »
It depends on the board. If it has a flat plate I lay it flat on the desktop. Curved plate boards, like Model M & F, I extend the legs to tilt the board up.
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Offline hwood34

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 10:54:44 »
Flat is better ergonomically
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Offline metalliqaz

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 10:58:04 »
Flat is better ergonomically
My ergo desk at work is even tilted away from me so that it cancels out the modest incline that is built into the board.

Offline VanGhost

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 12:33:44 »
Make a poll to add value to a thread on a recurring subject

there have been many similar threads in the past... ergonomically, they say flat is better.

i keep them flat
Sorry guys, I'm still new here. In the future if I think that a question might have been asked before I'll search for it.

Offline Oobly

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 12:36:43 »
Flat and with SA keycaps on :)
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Offline Melvang

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 12:47:58 »
Neither flat nor extended is more ergonomic on its own.  There is a multitude of other variables that go into it.  Granted flat is more ergonomic more often than inclined but not always the case.
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Offline FoxWolf1

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 13:59:27 »
Extended.

In fact, if I needed the keyboard to be flat, I wouldn't be able to fit both the keyboard and my wrist rest on the desk. I have the feet of my monitor tucked under the back of the keyboard, and the front of my wrist rest comes right up to the edge of the desk.
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Offline Novus

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 15:17:19 »
Extended.
I don't like flat boards.

Offline chyros

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 17:01:54 »
Extended, always. If it has two-part feet, the largest of the two.
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Offline keyhopper

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 18:00:40 »
Extended.
But it depends on the height of the table and the chair, and the position of the keyboard relative to my hands and elbows.

I used to leave them flat on different configurations.

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Offline Tyrosh22

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 18:24:08 »
I'm switching between extended and flat regularly. :D
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Offline aref

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 18:25:49 »
Extended. Actually, I elevate my keyboards with self-stick felt pads to set an incline that suits me.

Offline Daniel Beardsmore

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 18:28:13 »
Extended, although in the case of my Poker II you don't have a choice :)
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Offline Tyrosh22

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 18:33:46 »
Extended, although in the case of my Poker II you don't have a choice :)

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Offline Daniel Beardsmore

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 18:44:17 »
I don't want it wrapped in duct tape ;-)
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Offline BrewCaps

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 18:46:17 »
Flat.  Always.

Offline Art of Payce

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 19:51:43 »
Exteeeeendeeeeed. 11 times out of 10.

But I type on flat keycaps. Subconsciously, I may be pining for "better ergonomics", i.e. a more sculptured profile.

.......Nah. Nah, extended all the way!

Offline demik

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 19:54:53 »
extended, flat feels weird
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Offline sorijealut

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #28 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 20:04:03 »
Flat like piano keys.

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 20:31:50 »
flat

for some reason, even thinking about using it extended, urged me to get back to a low profile mouse

my latest mouse, a logitech g602, is a bit high, used to have anywhere mx's, loved the low wrist angle, currently having very minor aches

so to sum up, flat, my left wrist is happy
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Offline Novus

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #30 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 20:39:02 »
flat

for some reason, even thinking about using it extended, urged me to get back to a low profile mouse

my latest mouse, a logitech g602, is a bit high, used to have anywhere mx's, loved the low wrist angle, currently having very minor aches

so to sum up, flat, my left wrist is happy
*slams table*

You're obviously not Khan :/

Offline KHAANNN

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #31 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 20:50:07 »
flat

for some reason, even thinking about using it extended, urged me to get back to a low profile mouse

my latest mouse, a logitech g602, is a bit high, used to have anywhere mx's, loved the low wrist angle, currently having very minor aches

so to sum up, flat, my left wrist is happy
*slams table*

You're obviously not Khan :/
obviously they forgot to add the carpal tunnel prevention gene
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Offline heedpantsnow

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #32 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 20:54:11 »
Flat.
I'm back.

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Offline Touch_It

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #33 on: Wed, 25 February 2015, 21:26:31 »
Extended.  It's all about that angle, no flat.


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Offline rowdy

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #34 on: Thu, 26 February 2015, 03:24:44 »
As the last time this was asked (and the time before that), I have my keyboards flat.
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Offline jacobolus

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #35 on: Thu, 26 February 2015, 04:59:27 »
hwood34: “Flat is better ergonomically”

metalliqaz: “My ergo desk at work is even tilted away from me so that it cancels out the modest incline that is built into the board.”

keyhopper: “Extended.  But it depends on the height of the table and the chair, and the position of the keyboard relative to my hands and elbows.”

Melvang: “Neither flat nor extended is more ergonomic on its own.”

Sorry hwood & metalliqaz, but keyhopper and Melvang have it right on this one.

First, a disclaimer: I don’t claim to be an expert on this, (and to be honest, after reading a few dozen academic papers on the subject, I’m not convinced anyone is an especially reliable expert), but I have thought a bunch about it.

Expert advice / research is based on a few main concepts.

(1) Muscles shouldn’t have heavy static load. The typical goal is for long-term static load on any given muscle to be something like <5% of the maximum voluntary load (like what you’d get if lifting weights or similar). Many people have typing postures which lead them to have like 15–20% of maximum load constantly for hours at a time on certain muscles, e.g. in their back or shoulders. This is bad, leading to all kinds of problems.

(2) Don’t stretch hands/wrists/fingers into positions that will cause repetitive motions to take place at the limits of particular tendons’ range of motion. This leads to fatigue and inflamation.

(3) Don’t place excessive external pressure on tendons/nerves/blood vessels (there are actually a lot of places that you could put pressure on that would be a bad idea, spots on the upper back/shoulders/arms/elbows/wrists/etc., so be careful out there)

(4) Try to avoid excessive impact force / shock on the joints, especially repetitive impacts

Based on such principles, there have been a bunch of studies which tried to measure muscle loads and forces in various ways, but most of the literature is somewhat unsatisfactory and it’s hard to piece together a particularly coherent story. Much more research is necessary to settle many questions about keyboard design and use IMO.

But in any event, here’s my advice:

The best angle depends on the height of your desk and chair, the size of your body, and the way you sit.

You want to set your keyboard up so that you can sit comfortably, and type without putting excessive strain anywhere. That means, for any position you’re going to stay in for more than 20–30 minutes at a time:

- keep your shoulders, back, and neck in a comfortable relaxed position
    - no shrugging, no hunching forward
    - leave your upper arms hanging loosely down at your sides,
       no sticking your elbows out or forward
    - either sit up or make sure you have adequate back support.
       reclining is fine, but no slouching
    - try not to keep your head up; looking down a bit is fine,
       but tilting the head too far down causes neck strain
       (laptops in the lap aren’t great for extended use)
- keep your wrists as straight as you can get them. The further they get from
   straight/neutral along any axis, the further certain tendons have to stretch,
   and the more strain/fatigue results
    - avoid excessive wrist extension or flexion
       (= bending your wrists up and down)
    - avoid excessive forearm pronation
       (= rotating your forearms inward so your wrists are flat
    - avoid excessive ulnar deviation
       (= turning your wrist outward)

The standard keyboard is a pretty bad shape which makes it impossible to get your wrists in an entirely neutral position. (For that you need some tenting between split halves to reduce pronation, and some turn inward to avoid ulnar deviation). It’s possible though to avoid wrist extension/flexion, which seem to be the worst offenders (wrist extension leads to tendonitis and carpal tunnel syndrome).

The ideal case is to be in an environment where the home row on the keyboard is at or slightly below the level of your elbows, with the top of the keyboard flat or even slightly negatively sloped. However, even with a higher desk than that, it’s possible to avoid injury if you’re careful. I advise tilting your keyboard such that the key plate is parallel to your forearms when your wrists are straight. If your desk is tall relative to your chair, your elbows might end up bent fairly steeply, and the best keyboard tilt is also pretty steep; typing at a high desk puts a bit of extra load on your biceps, but luckily biceps are pretty strong.
« Last Edit: Thu, 26 February 2015, 05:04:38 by jacobolus »

Offline chyros

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #36 on: Thu, 26 February 2015, 06:01:54 »
Is flat maybe more popular with touch typists? When I see people, their hands usually look quite cramped and pointing upwards, so it looks like it would be more comfortable typing at a less steep angle. Whereas if you just kind of type normally, you might want the back bit of the keyboard to just be closer to you. Just throwing some thoughts out there.
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Offline ideus

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #37 on: Thu, 26 February 2015, 07:33:41 »
Comfort may be relative to each ones feeling, biomechanics, in the other hand will pass you the bill of stressful positions kept for long periods. That is a fact, and facts are undisputed.

Offline chyros

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #38 on: Thu, 26 February 2015, 08:42:07 »
Comfort may be relative to each ones feeling, biomechanics, in the other hand will pass you the bill of stressful positions kept for long periods. That is a fact, and facts are undisputed.
Hmmm I guess, I was just curious about whether there is a correlation at all.

Scientifically speaking facts don't exist though, and everything is disputed ;P .
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Offline jacobolus

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #39 on: Thu, 26 February 2015, 08:44:36 »
When I see people, their hands usually look quite cramped and pointing upwards, so it looks like it would be more comfortable typing at a less steep angle.
Lots of people rest their palms/wrists on the table or on a low-ish palmrest or on the front part of a laptop while they type. This pretty much inevitably causes excessive wrist extension, and is a bad idea. Personally I’d recommend against using a palmrest while typing, but if you need one for some reason, I think it should be fairly tall, your palms should be resting not your wrists, and you should make sure your wrists are as straight as possible. Resting your palms on the Kinesis Advantage shell is probably reasonable enough, as one example.

Every study I’ve seen about keyboard angle (admittedly there are a bunch of studies I haven’t examined yet) either instructed the typists to rest their palms on a palmrest, or just sat them down in front of various setups and didn’t give them any advice about how to type. As a result, pretty much every study shows dramatic amounts of wrist extension in nearly all test conditions. In other words, the test subjects in many keyboard studies would be on the fast track to RSI if they kept those positions and typed for 8 hours/day. Fortunately most office jobs only require bits of intermittent typing here and there, rather than long-term continuous typing.

I’d really love to see studies where they at least included one test group of people explicitly instructed to type while holding their wrists as straight as possible and not resting palms/wrists on any surface, let them type for a few hours, and then measured various muscle loads, surveyed subjective fatigue, and recorded speed/accuracy at various amounts of time. Likewise, I’d like to see more studies where they kept the keyboard in the same position/orientation (for any particular subject; between subjects of different heights it might be necessary to change the keyboard position or tilt) and varied the height and position of the palmrest.

Offline ctm

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #40 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 20:16:23 »
When I am using my TKL QFR, I always have keyboard feet extended. With flatted feet I find it hard to reach the number row.
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Offline Melvang

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #41 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 23:47:03 »
I don't have feet on my keyboard, I just have the curved back plate on my AT sitting on/in my keyboard tray.
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Offline dustinhxc

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #42 on: Fri, 27 February 2015, 23:54:26 »
Flat! :)

Offline HalfSharkAlligator

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #43 on: Sat, 28 February 2015, 02:51:47 »
flat

Offline Jersern

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #44 on: Sat, 28 February 2015, 03:48:09 »
Use to be flat but only extended now a days.

Offline derezzed

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #45 on: Sun, 01 March 2015, 15:53:31 »
For years, I used my keyboard with the legs extended because I thought it was more ergonomic.  Once I started using my keyboards flat, I noticed an easing of my wrist pain.  Recently, I've been using one of my boards with a negative tilt and found that even more comfortable. 

Offline whizzard

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #46 on: Sun, 01 March 2015, 16:00:46 »
I always want feet or a tilt to it... I usually go by the height of the desk than anything else.  If your desk is a little high laying it flat becomes very awkward.   If you are sitting and telling someone with your hands to "calm down" that is how I like my hands to sit on a keyboard to avoid strain and to be able to touch type quickly.  You know, hands at about a 15-30 degree angle.  Laying it flat makes me raise my wrists too high and feels awkward and uncomfortable.  Like everyone will say... use good posture and do what feels the most comfortable to you... thats why feet are usually optional and can be dropped or raised.  The Octagon I just made has a permanent tilt to it and it is a perfect angle imo.

Offline ideus

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #47 on: Sun, 01 March 2015, 17:34:53 »
Comfort may be relative to each ones feeling, biomechanics, in the other hand will pass you the bill of stressful positions kept for long periods. That is a fact, and facts are undisputed.
Hmmm I guess, I was just curious about whether there is a correlation at all.

Scientifically speaking facts don't exist though, and everything is disputed ;P .


You meant debatable. :))

Offline hking0036

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #48 on: Sun, 01 March 2015, 21:42:39 »
flat, they both stand plenty tall by themselves, it makes it hard to type with them up.
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Offline Firebolt1914

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Re: Do you guys type with your keyboards feet extended or flat?
« Reply #49 on: Sun, 01 March 2015, 21:51:12 »
Flat. With my current set up, having it extended makes my wrist bend at an awkward angle.