Author Topic: Maltron Keyboards  (Read 5655 times)

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Offline timw4mail

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« on: Wed, 01 July 2009, 07:13:23 »
Do Maltron Keyboards have tactile switches? And has anybody typed on them?
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Tactile Apple AEKII (Cream damped ALPS), Filco FKBN91M/JB (Japanese Tenkeyless), Cherry G84-5200, Cherry G84-4100LPAUS, Datalux Spacesaver(Cherry ML), Redragon Devarajas K556 RGB, Newmen GM711, Poker II (Cherry MX Clear), Logitech G910 Orion Spark, Logitech K840
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Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #1 on: Wed, 01 July 2009, 07:20:27 »
Maltrons have Cherry browns.  I think there are a coupl of folks on the board that have/use them.


Offline timw4mail

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« Reply #2 on: Wed, 01 July 2009, 07:23:05 »
Quote from: itlnstln;100420
Maltrons have Cherry browns.  I think there are a coupl of folks on the board that have/use them.


Ah, that makes sense. I noticed it shows that they use Cherry switches, but there is no mention of the actual switch used.
Buckling Springs IBM Model F AT, New Model F 77, Unicomp New Model M
Clicky iOne Scorpius M10, OCN-branded Ducky DK-9008-C, Blackmore Nocturna, Redragon Kumara K552-1, Qtronix Scorpius Keypad, Chicony KB-5181(Monterey)
Tactile Apple AEKII (Cream damped ALPS), Filco FKBN91M/JB (Japanese Tenkeyless), Cherry G84-5200, Cherry G84-4100LPAUS, Datalux Spacesaver(Cherry ML), Redragon Devarajas K556 RGB, Newmen GM711, Poker II (Cherry MX Clear), Logitech G910 Orion Spark, Logitech K840
Linear Lenovo Y (Gateron Red), Aluminum kiosk keyboard (Cherry MX Black)

Offline timw4mail

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« Reply #3 on: Fri, 03 July 2009, 08:28:11 »
Anybody use a Maltron?
Buckling Springs IBM Model F AT, New Model F 77, Unicomp New Model M
Clicky iOne Scorpius M10, OCN-branded Ducky DK-9008-C, Blackmore Nocturna, Redragon Kumara K552-1, Qtronix Scorpius Keypad, Chicony KB-5181(Monterey)
Tactile Apple AEKII (Cream damped ALPS), Filco FKBN91M/JB (Japanese Tenkeyless), Cherry G84-5200, Cherry G84-4100LPAUS, Datalux Spacesaver(Cherry ML), Redragon Devarajas K556 RGB, Newmen GM711, Poker II (Cherry MX Clear), Logitech G910 Orion Spark, Logitech K840
Linear Lenovo Y (Gateron Red), Aluminum kiosk keyboard (Cherry MX Black)

Offline ricercar

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« Reply #4 on: Sat, 12 December 2009, 11:08:22 »
Resurrecting dead thread for posterity to note my Maltron Left-hand keyboard "Cherry MX" switches are black.
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Offline microsoft windows

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« Reply #5 on: Sat, 12 December 2009, 18:11:14 »
Your Maltron has Cherries?
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Offline ch_123

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« Reply #6 on: Sat, 12 December 2009, 18:14:49 »
They all do.

Offline microsoft windows

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« Reply #7 on: Sat, 12 December 2009, 18:20:48 »
Cool. I want to get one of those someday. Maybe I'll get one for each hand and use two PC's at once!
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Offline ricercar

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« Reply #8 on: Sat, 12 December 2009, 19:20:56 »
Quote from: microsoft windows;141855
one for each hand and use two PC's at once!

Preemptive Multitasking.

I'll give a spoiler for the review I'm preparing. The Maltron enclosures are not worthy of their price. Don't get your plans set in stone.
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Offline jonebay

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« Reply #9 on: Fri, 18 December 2009, 02:55:27 »
These keyboards have Push-On Push-Off keys for Shift, Control and Alt functions; essential for single hand operation.The switchable dual layout feature of Maltron keyboards has now been developed for single handed keyboards to give an alternative number entry option. For intensive number work the flat number panel alongside the letters is not ergonomic and can lead to fatigue as there is nowhere to rest the hand during pauses. To overcome this problem the number pad numbers are now also grouped on the letters keys. Either letters or numbers may be immediately selected by pressing a separate button. Both Left and Right hand models are designed for "Touch Typing."

Offline Buckling_Summer

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« Reply #10 on: Fri, 18 December 2009, 05:12:37 »
It seems to me that Advantage Kinesis with the foot pedals are more cute and more efficient (set aside the lack of numpad. And they use cherry switches too!

We want desperately some brothers' opinion who have test-typed on both boards.Or the best alternative?
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Offline spremino

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« Reply #11 on: Fri, 18 December 2009, 06:39:44 »
Cherry browns are not good for typing. You can't rest your fingers on them, thus you will be developing tension in your arms.

I think people who swear for them do rest their wrists on something while typing, which is not ergonomic.
A long space bar... what a waste of space!

Offline timw4mail

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« Reply #12 on: Fri, 18 December 2009, 06:57:56 »
Quote from: spremino;143423
Cherry browns are not good for typing. You can't rest your fingers on them, thus you will be developing tension in your arms.

I think people who swear for them do rest their wrists on something while typing, which is not ergonomic.

Well, I can rest my fingers on them. Switches are not an everybody or nobody thing.
Buckling Springs IBM Model F AT, New Model F 77, Unicomp New Model M
Clicky iOne Scorpius M10, OCN-branded Ducky DK-9008-C, Blackmore Nocturna, Redragon Kumara K552-1, Qtronix Scorpius Keypad, Chicony KB-5181(Monterey)
Tactile Apple AEKII (Cream damped ALPS), Filco FKBN91M/JB (Japanese Tenkeyless), Cherry G84-5200, Cherry G84-4100LPAUS, Datalux Spacesaver(Cherry ML), Redragon Devarajas K556 RGB, Newmen GM711, Poker II (Cherry MX Clear), Logitech G910 Orion Spark, Logitech K840
Linear Lenovo Y (Gateron Red), Aluminum kiosk keyboard (Cherry MX Black)

Offline spremino

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« Reply #13 on: Fri, 18 December 2009, 07:09:42 »
Quote from: timw4mail;143424
Well, I can rest my fingers on them. Switches are not an everybody or nobody thing.


Do you have feathers instead of hands? I don't think so. You think you are resting your fingers, while you are developing tension in your arms instead.
A long space bar... what a waste of space!

Offline spremino

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« Reply #14 on: Fri, 18 December 2009, 07:16:22 »
Quote from: jonebay;143415
These keyboards have Push-On Push-Off keys for Shift, Control and Alt functions; essential for single hand operation.


Sticky modifiers are a feature of every recent OS. Look at your OS control panel.
A long space bar... what a waste of space!

Offline timw4mail

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« Reply #15 on: Fri, 18 December 2009, 07:18:55 »
Quote from: spremino;143430
Do you have feathers instead of hands? I don't think so. You think you are resting your fingers, while you are developing tension in your arms instead.

Ergonomics are not clear-cut. I may be fine resting on the Cherry browns, but you may have to tense your arms to do the same thing. Individual differences like this are why we each prefer different switches.

My biggest requirement with switches seems to be that they need to be more tactile if they require more actuation force. Hence why I like buckling springs and Cherry switches, and I don't like ALPS switches as much.
Buckling Springs IBM Model F AT, New Model F 77, Unicomp New Model M
Clicky iOne Scorpius M10, OCN-branded Ducky DK-9008-C, Blackmore Nocturna, Redragon Kumara K552-1, Qtronix Scorpius Keypad, Chicony KB-5181(Monterey)
Tactile Apple AEKII (Cream damped ALPS), Filco FKBN91M/JB (Japanese Tenkeyless), Cherry G84-5200, Cherry G84-4100LPAUS, Datalux Spacesaver(Cherry ML), Redragon Devarajas K556 RGB, Newmen GM711, Poker II (Cherry MX Clear), Logitech G910 Orion Spark, Logitech K840
Linear Lenovo Y (Gateron Red), Aluminum kiosk keyboard (Cherry MX Black)

Offline spremino

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« Reply #16 on: Fri, 18 December 2009, 07:43:40 »
Quote from: timw4mail;143432
Ergonomics are not clear-cut. I may be fine resting on the Cherry browns, but you may have to tense your arms to do the same thing. Individual differences like this are why we each prefer different switches.

I don't think so. Ergonomics _are_ clear-cut. Amateurs can choose a different switch because they like it better (maybe because it just compensates for their bad habits). If you don't type a lot, you won't notice you are doing it wrong.

As for resting your fingers, if you are _resting_ your fingers over the keys, then it's just a matter of weight. Maybe you won't notice you are tensing your arms to avoid firing off keystrokes, but you will do so. Well, unless you have very light and skinny hands.
A long space bar... what a waste of space!

Offline timw4mail

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« Reply #17 on: Fri, 18 December 2009, 07:55:36 »
Quote from: spremino;143436
I don't think so. Ergonomics _are_ clear-cut. Amateurs can choose a different switch because they like it better (maybe because it just compensates for their bad habits). If you don't type a lot, you won't notice you are doing it wrong.

As for resting your fingers, if you are _resting_ your fingers over the keys, then it's just a matter of weight. Maybe you won't notice you are tensing your arms to avoid firing off keystrokes, but you will do so. Well, unless you have very light and skinny hands.

If ergonomics are so clear-cut, why do some people have pain doing things one specific way, while others have no pain under the same conditions? Just because Cherry browns are uncomfortable for you does not mean they are uncomfortable for me.

Well, I do have rather long, skinny fingers.
Buckling Springs IBM Model F AT, New Model F 77, Unicomp New Model M
Clicky iOne Scorpius M10, OCN-branded Ducky DK-9008-C, Blackmore Nocturna, Redragon Kumara K552-1, Qtronix Scorpius Keypad, Chicony KB-5181(Monterey)
Tactile Apple AEKII (Cream damped ALPS), Filco FKBN91M/JB (Japanese Tenkeyless), Cherry G84-5200, Cherry G84-4100LPAUS, Datalux Spacesaver(Cherry ML), Redragon Devarajas K556 RGB, Newmen GM711, Poker II (Cherry MX Clear), Logitech G910 Orion Spark, Logitech K840
Linear Lenovo Y (Gateron Red), Aluminum kiosk keyboard (Cherry MX Black)

Offline spremino

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« Reply #18 on: Fri, 18 December 2009, 08:07:10 »
Quote from: timw4mail;143438
If ergonomics are so clear-cut, why do some people have pain doing things one specific way, while others have no pain under the same conditions? Just because Cherry browns are uncomfortable for you does not mean they are uncomfortable for me.

What people are you talking about? Let's forget typists for a moment, because very few people make the effort to learn to type properly. If I think about singing, body-building, playing instruments and so on, there are clear-cut ways to do those activities without harming yourself.

OTOH, I agree that some minorities will always need tailored solutions.
A long space bar... what a waste of space!

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #19 on: Fri, 18 December 2009, 08:36:57 »
For once, I am going to firmly side with Tim on this one.  I can rest my hands quite comfortably on Cherry browns without pressing any keys.  I also use a wrist rest, too, so that helps, I think.  I type for at least 10 hours a day without any discomfort.  I think there is very much a difference by individual on what they find comfortable.  Some people prefer heavier switches and some prefer lighter ones.


Offline spremino

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« Reply #20 on: Fri, 18 December 2009, 08:43:25 »
Quote from: itlnstln;143444
For once, I am going to firmly side with Tim on this one.  I can rest my hands quite comfortably on Cherry browns without pressing any keys.  I also use a wrist rest, too, so that helps, I think.  I type for at least 10 hours a day without any discomfort.  I think there is very much a difference by individual on what they find comfortable.  Some people prefer heavier switches and some prefer lighter ones.

Well, of course the wrist rest helps in not firing off keystrokes. I can rest my fingers on browns if I'm using a wrist rest, too. However, that way you end up pressing against your carpal tunnel while typing, and that's not a good thing. Your carpal tunnel does not care about your preferences. Time will tell. I hope for you you're doing it right.
A long space bar... what a waste of space!

Offline spremino

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« Reply #21 on: Fri, 18 December 2009, 09:35:46 »
Quote from: ripster;143455
I have no problem with resting fingers on a Cherry Brown and I don't use a wrist rest.

You really do?

EDIT: On my Filco I couldn't. Maybe that's because it lacks a place below the taskbar to rest my thumbs. Time to try a G80-3000?
« Last Edit: Fri, 18 December 2009, 09:44:45 by spremino »
A long space bar... what a waste of space!

Offline spremino

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« Reply #22 on: Fri, 18 December 2009, 10:06:20 »
Quote from: ripster;143464
I have a Filco brown cherry  and this Cherry Corp SPOS Brown I'm typing on is also not giving me problems.


However, I've not found any mention about a brown-based G80-3000...
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Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #23 on: Fri, 18 December 2009, 10:30:57 »
Quote from: spremino;143467
However, I've not found any mention about a brown-based G80-3000...

Check it.  I have one; it's nice.


Offline spremino

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« Reply #24 on: Fri, 18 December 2009, 10:35:58 »
Quote from: itlnstln;143474
Check it.  I have one; it's nice.

Thanks. Sadly, I'd be looking from a European variant.

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm after a Cherry with blues, now. I wonder who are Cherry's customers, since even here in Europe their keyboards are so difficult to come by.
« Last Edit: Fri, 18 December 2009, 11:24:51 by spremino »
A long space bar... what a waste of space!

Offline keyb_gr

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« Reply #25 on: Fri, 18 December 2009, 15:32:08 »
Oh, here in Germany they are easy to get. Elsewhere though...

I don't really get the logic behind the standard layout options available for clears and blues. You can get both in German and US with Euro layout, but clears are also available with Swiss layout while blues can be had in UK layout. The UK ones with blues used to be black on top of that.
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Offline spremino

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« Reply #26 on: Fri, 18 December 2009, 17:34:24 »
Quote from: keyb_gr;143565
Oh, here in Germany they are easy to get. Elsewhere though...


Indeed, I resorted to buy a German one to use at work =_=
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Offline Rajagra

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« Reply #27 on: Fri, 18 December 2009, 17:56:45 »
Quote from: spremino;143423
Cherry browns are not good for typing. You can't rest your fingers on them, thus you will be developing tension in your arms.


I think you are deluding yourself. I rested my fingers on a scale in a comfortable manner. Weight was about 1Kg. If I rested the full weight of my arm via my wrist it was 2Kg.

Cherry browns or model M - neither supports anything like the weight of my arms, so the difference is academic. I will develop tension in my arms no matter what keyboard I use. Unless there are keys out there with 400g activation force?

Offline msiegel

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« Reply #28 on: Fri, 18 December 2009, 18:20:39 »
Quote from: Rajagra;143588
I think you are deluding yourself. I rested my fingers on a scale in a comfortable manner. Weight was about 1Kg. If I rested the full weight of my arm via my wrist it was 2Kg.

Cherry browns or model M - neither supports anything like the weight of my arms, so the difference is academic. I will develop tension in my arms no matter what keyboard I use. Unless there are keys out there with 400g activation force?

i'm with spremino:

light switches that activate near the top of the stroke may lead to added muscle tension, to maintain the tighter tolerances needed for finger-contact-but-not-switch-activation.

with heavier switches, especially ones that activate later in the stroke, the tolerances are more relaxed, and so are my hands :)

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Offline keyb_gr

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« Reply #29 on: Fri, 18 December 2009, 19:33:18 »
Browns do have their tactile bump a good .5 mm before blues, at a slightly lower force at that. It's still quite narrow, too, so overall the chances of the key being pressed accidentally are highest among all the Cherry switches, I think (reds possibly excepted). In clears the tactile bump is at similar travel, but quite broad and at a higher force level, so it's fairly hard to miss.
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Offline ch_123

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« Reply #30 on: Fri, 18 December 2009, 19:40:46 »
You mean that's NOT how you should sit at a computer?

Oh dear...

Offline ricercar

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« Reply #31 on: Fri, 18 December 2009, 22:48:39 »
If ergonomics was black and white, there'd be only one kind of keyboard that was lawyer-approved here in the Home of the Litigator, Land of the Lawsuit.

edit: Cherry blacks on the Maltron, with a reversed custom keycap for your edification.



There's a LED for all keys that toggle, not just CAPSLOCK, NUMLOCK, SCROLLOCK, but also L-ALT, L-SHIFT, L-CTRL, and R-SHIFT (Other R counterparts do not lock, and have no LEDs).

Another curiosity is the multiple bumps, on hand-positioning keys. The bumps appear to be made of velcro.
« Last Edit: Sat, 19 December 2009, 00:38:10 by ricercar »
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Offline spremino

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« Reply #32 on: Sat, 19 December 2009, 08:51:26 »
Quote from: msiegel;143590

light switches that activate near the top of the stroke may lead to added muscle tension, to maintain the tighter tolerances needed for finger-contact-but-not-switch-activation.

with heavier switches, especially ones that activate later in the stroke, the tolerances are more relaxed, and so are my hands :)


You nailed it down, Msiegel.

I bought a Cherry brown based keyboard and no matter how typing on it felt comfortable and fast, I couldn't relax my hands fully when resting my fingers on them. Now, I'm using a Cherry clears based keyboard and, albeit I find it fatiguing in the long run - at least I can relax my hands when resting. Maybe will Cherry blues be my sweet spot? I hope so.
A long space bar... what a waste of space!