Author Topic: [Help] KBD75/QMK backlighting problem  (Read 4297 times)

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Offline Skull_Angel

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[Help] KBD75/QMK backlighting problem
« on: Sat, 14 October 2017, 16:57:18 »
Hi guys,

So it's been a few days enjoying my new KBD75 (white PCB with split-space option/reset button) and I realize a few of the RGB backlight LEDs like to go out randomly. My Google-fu seems to be weak with this one since all I've been able to find are basic hardware issues regarding QMK based boards and vague "QMK has weirdness with lighting" posts.

I've checked my joints as well as the factory SMD joints; while some of the factory joints could be a little cleaner, I don't see any problems. I've checked my USB power settings to see if it may be entering a low-power state and causing the lights to lose power, but it doesn't seem to be the case either (still monitoring). I'm still new to using QMK and have been using the browser tool to create hex code to flash; it seems to work perfectly fine, but I'll attach a copy if anyone's up to checking it out.

It only seems to happen to the LEDs on the front corners of the PCB and only in static mode, but I'm still testing other modes. Some times it's only the LEDs at the very corners, but other times it extends to the first two on either or both side. I haven't found any triggers for the issue to arise; some times it happens while using the board, other times while it's running idle.

I don't have any LEDs installed aside from the PCB mounted RGBs used for backlighting; I could do with or without the lighting, but since the case was designed with backlighting in mind and it's there, I like to have it working properly, lol.

Any help is appreciated.

180224-0


Offline rich1051414

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  • Location: Decaturville, TN
Re: [Help] KBD75/QMK backlighting problem
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 15 October 2017, 08:46:47 »
I can't recreate on mine, nor have I ever experienced this. Out of curiosity, you are using the plastic insulator, right? I would be worried that the board will short in places without it.
Siig Minitouch with Orange Alps, Whitefox 60% Zealios 67g, Realforce 87U 55g Topre, LFK SMK/Alps TKL With SMK 2nd Gen Cherry MX mount switches, NEC APC-H412 NEC Blue Ovals, Unicomp Model-M Spacesaver, XMIT Hall Effect, WASD Code Cherry MX Clear, KBDFans75 Lubed Gateron Greens, Azio MGK L80 Kailh Brown, XD84 Pale Blue Box Kailh, NIB Pingmaster TMK Converted, KPrepublic XD96 Blue aluminum case with Jade Box Kailh

Offline Skull_Angel

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Re: [Help] KBD75/QMK backlighting problem
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 15 October 2017, 20:08:22 »
Yeah, the insulator is in.

It's definitely unexpected and I can't find other instances of something similar happening. I might break out the ohm meter and test the connections when I have some free time, before submitting a help request with KBDfans.

Offline Skull_Angel

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Re: [Help] KBD75/QMK backlighting problem
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 16 October 2017, 19:46:26 »
She gave me a little zap earlier so I pulled her apart.

Cleaned the flux, checked the joints again; all good.

Inspected the SMD joints; all good.

Inspected the board; that doesn't look right. The right edge of the board was still covered in rough copper. I ended up filing it off, covered any exposed upper and lower trace with liquid electrical tape and buttoned it back up.

Hopefully that solves the issue, but I'll find out.


Edit; issue still persists. I found the cause though; personal static seems to be causing a short every time the case is touched with any charge. I'm not sure how to tackle this issue.
« Last Edit: Mon, 16 October 2017, 19:57:47 by Skull_Angel »

Offline ygor

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Re: [Help] KBD75/QMK backlighting problem
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 16 October 2017, 20:22:19 »
Strange... Mine had an LED go out but it's because I dumped the PCB in a bubbling dye bath. If you need to replace any of the LEDs THIS is a great source.

My only troubleshooting advice is to ask if you remembered to put the thick paper template down below the PCB. Other than that I got nothin'.
I generally hate all keycaps. Keycaps are for poofs. Real men touchtype on stems. Non-functional artisans are awesome, I use them for the ESC key ... escape is for cowards anyways, real men go frontal assault.

Offline Skull_Angel

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Re: [Help] KBD75/QMK backlighting problem
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 17 October 2017, 11:55:44 »
I'm not familiar with how PC peripherals are wired, but do they have a proper ground? If so, does anyone know which USB wire is ground so I can try to trace it?

Offline rich1051414

  • Posts: 353
  • Location: Decaturville, TN
Re: [Help] KBD75/QMK backlighting problem
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 21 October 2017, 09:54:29 »
if you live in a dry climate, and you have carpets(isolating you from earth potential), it could be YOU that is the source of the problem, if that is the case, you are statically charged and basically the case is serving as a path for you to discharge your static build up. That actually isn't good, as you can kill electronics shocking them like that, especially if the shock is passing through the switch and pcb before making it to the grounded case. The switch could care less, but the LED's(or led drivers for that matter) wouldn't like thousands of volts passing through it like that.

The keyboard should be grounded to the case by the screws holding the PCB to the case, and the ground reference for the case should be provided by the USB ground shield. Technically, there should be 0v between the negative provided by the USB cable(usually the black wire) and the ground shield, but that is ideal. The ground is supposed to soak any stray voltage caused by EMF noise, so in reality, you should read a small amount of potential difference between them. Either way, the ground reference SHOULD be referenced to real earth, unless impossible, like if you are using a laptop with a virtual ground. You can also get away with just resistively shorting together the negative and the ground, but the board should already be doing this.

Basically, if I had to guess, I would guess it was one of three things. Either your problem is a short, your problem is that the earth is oversaturated with far too much AC voltage on it, or that you are heavily statically charged, and you have the acquired superpower of killing electronics with thors lightning. Grab a multimeter and test your own potential to real earth, and then real earths potential to the case. That should make it clear. With how much electrical mass the KBD75 has, I HIGHLY doubt anything is saturating ground on the keyboards side.

For reference, I read 0.1v DC and 0.3v AC between myself(earth grounded) and my case(Grounded to my device).

Also, I had another keyboard that wigged out when I did ANYTHING which generated a lot of EMF noise anywhere on the same side of the house. The issue there was the USB cable. I eventually came to the conclusion that if enough potential difference found its way on the USB shielding, it would arc to the data pins and make it malfunction. Either way, changing the USB cable fixed the issue. However, the repeatability of your problem kind of makes me shy away from that being the culprit, but it is worth pointing out. Intermittent shorts can cause a whole host of weird behavior, and is a pain to diagnose, especially on SMD PCBs.
« Last Edit: Sat, 21 October 2017, 10:36:22 by rich1051414 »
Siig Minitouch with Orange Alps, Whitefox 60% Zealios 67g, Realforce 87U 55g Topre, LFK SMK/Alps TKL With SMK 2nd Gen Cherry MX mount switches, NEC APC-H412 NEC Blue Ovals, Unicomp Model-M Spacesaver, XMIT Hall Effect, WASD Code Cherry MX Clear, KBDFans75 Lubed Gateron Greens, Azio MGK L80 Kailh Brown, XD84 Pale Blue Box Kailh, NIB Pingmaster TMK Converted, KPrepublic XD96 Blue aluminum case with Jade Box Kailh

Offline Skull_Angel

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Re: [Help] KBD75/QMK backlighting problem
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 21 October 2017, 16:49:57 »
@rich

Ground could possibly be an issue, that's why I've been trying to figure out which USB wire leads to ground. Arching from the switches doesn't seem to be an issue, only the case (I'll rest the side of a finger on it for homing purposes out of habit), but I have tried a few wires with no success. I've no way to test true ground here with any accuracy, but with the fires and number of earthquakes we had (north bay CA) there could have been an excess build up. The issue hasn't been as apparent the past few days, but still keeping an eye on it.

I'm no stranger to troubleshooting, but I'm not use to needing a magnifying-glass half the time, haha!

I emailed Wei last week and he said he'd talk to his designer, but no word yet.