I hope all our Florida members are okay

[cmadrid]

Do we have any members from the Orlando area?  Hopefully nobody here had friends/family involved in the tragedy.

[katushkin]

Security being beefed up at LGBT events around the country. Armed man arrested on his way to LA Pride as well.

Horrible scenes from there. Vesper isn't over that way is he?

[Bigpock]

What a tragedy. We need mental screenings for all legal guns

[demik]

just read about the LA pride dude also. insane. glad gf had other plans instead.

What a tragedy. We need mental screenings for all legal guns

we need to get serious about mental health, period.

and gotta do something about religion and it's fanatics.

[cmadrid]

Yeah mental health has been lacking in resources forever in the US.. we really need to get our act together

[hashbaz]

just read about the LA pride dude also. insane. glad gf had other plans instead.

Saw that too. :-/ This will make SF Pride more nerve-wracking and a lot more emotional.

What a tragedy. We need mental screenings for all legal guns

Indications so far are that this was motivated by homophobia and possibly also religious fanaticism.

[katushkin]

There's an NYT reporter (@rcallimachi) who writes a lot about ISIS and has done some tweets explaining how ISIS takes credit for lone attacks like this.

What else has been said about the LA guy? How was he caught?

It's funny to see how many senators funded by the NRA are just tweeting about thoughts and prayers SMH.

[nugglets]

There's an NYT reporter (@rcallimachi) who writes a lot about ISIS and has done some tweets explaining how ISIS takes credit for lone attacks like this.

What else has been said about the LA guy? How was he caught?

It's funny to see how many senators funded by the NRA are just tweeting about thoughts and prayers SMH.

"Sources" are saying the guy called 911 and claimed allegiance to ISIS before the attack, but it's just heresay right now.

The LA guy got caught because someone reported him lurking around. They searched his vehicle and found the weapons and ammo. He said he was waiting for a friend.

[katushkin]

He said he was waiting for a friend.

"Sources" are saying the guy called 911 and claimed allegiance to ISIS before the attack, but it's just heresay right now.

Four or five news agencies are saying he called them. But her tweets are very interesting about what pledging allegiance means just before an attack. He probably wasn't affiliated with them at all, just did it as a last minute thing.

[nugglets]

He said he was waiting for a friend.

"Sources" are saying the guy called 911 and claimed allegiance to ISIS before the attack, but it's just heresay right now.

Four or five news agencies are saying he called them. But her tweets are very interesting about what pledging allegiance means just before an attack. He probably wasn't affiliated with them at all, just did it as a last minute thing.

Ya, I agree. The statement from his Dad said pretty much the same thing.

Either way, it's just... ****ing sad.

[xtrafrood]

My thoughts go out to anyone personally affected by this. Absolutely horrible

[fohat.digs]

motivated by homophobia and possibly also religious fanaticism.

Clearly some people's lives are so empty and useless that they have time to obsess over what other people might be doing, and how to make them stop doing it.

[Bigpock]

Indications so far are that this was motivated by homophobia and possibly also religious fanaticism.

Homophobia doesn't make you kill people, mental illness does. You need to be mentally ill if you feel the need 2 kill people based on religion and such.

[Photekq]

Insha'Allah

[Volucris]

Insha'Allah

Radical Islam is the reason this even happened. Guy played by all the rules, had license to be security guard, carry a firearm, etc. Yet he did all of this because of his beliefs. Might seem like that's "mentally ill" to some, but it's a common belief of millions of people who share his religion. It's like when a Middle Eastern country executes homosexuals, except one of the executioners came here and did it.

[xtrafrood]

Insha'Allah

Radical Islam is the reason this even happened. Guy played by all the rules, had license to be security guard, carry a firearm, etc. Yet he did all of this because of his beliefs. Might seem like that's "mentally ill" to some, but it's a common belief of millions of people who share his religion. It's like when a Middle Eastern country executes homosexuals, except one of the executioners came here and did it.

This is not a common belief for millions of people. This is a common belief for a few people that like to live outside of the system. Radical extremism is not shared amongst the general population of any religion. Thinking that millions of people share this need to kill is not healthy at all.

[fohat.digs]

Might seem like that's "mentally ill" to some, but it's a common belief of millions of people who share his religion.

[Volucris]

Insha'Allah

Radical Islam is the reason this even happened. Guy played by all the rules, had license to be security guard, carry a firearm, etc. Yet he did all of this because of his beliefs. Might seem like that's "mentally ill" to some, but it's a common belief of millions of people who share his religion. It's like when a Middle Eastern country executes homosexuals, except one of the executioners came here and did it.

This is not a common belief for millions of people. This is a common belief for a few people that like to live outside of the system. Radical extremism is not shared amongst the general population of any religion. Thinking that millions of people share this need to kill is not healthy at all.

Untrue. In Mauritania, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, United Arab Emirates, Somalia, and some of Nigeria, homosexuality is punishable by death. That's over 200 million people. If just one out of every hundred people living there believe homosexuality deserves death, then there you go: millions.

[Photekq]

This is not a common belief for millions of people. This is a common belief for a few people that like to live outside of the system. Radical extremism is not shared amongst the general population of any religion. Thinking that millions of people share this need to kill is not healthy at all.

WRONG!

"In the U.S., about eight-in-ten Muslims (81%) say that suicide bombings and similar acts targeting civilians are never justified."

That leaves 19%.



SOURCE

Take the blindfold of political correctness from your face, my man.

[cmadrid]

This is not a common belief for millions of people. This is a common belief for a few people that like to live outside of the system. Radical extremism is not shared amongst the general population of any religion. Thinking that millions of people share this need to kill is not healthy at all.

WRONG!

"In the U.S., about eight-in-ten Muslims (81%) say that suicide bombings and similar acts targeting civilians are never justified. "

That leaves 19%.

Show Image

SOURCE

Take the blindfold of political correctness from your face, my man.

Man... can't do anything in SE Asia

[chyros]

Insha'Allah

Radical Islam is the reason this even happened. Guy played by all the rules, had license to be security guard, carry a firearm, etc. Yet he did all of this because of his beliefs. Might seem like that's "mentally ill" to some, but it's a common belief of millions of people who share his religion. It's like when a Middle Eastern country executes homosexuals, except one of the executioners came here and did it.

This is not a common belief for millions of people. This is a common belief for a few people that like to live outside of the system. Radical extremism is not shared amongst the general population of any religion. Thinking that millions of people share this need to kill is not healthy at all.

Untrue. In Mauritania, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, United Arab Emirates, Somalia, and some of Nigeria, homosexuality is punishable by death. That's over 200 million people. If just one out of every hundred people living there believe homosexuality deserves death, then there you go: millions.

By your reasoning, millions of people think being American deserves death, too. Still not convinced it's mental illness?

Personally I think it's pretty goddamn sick to want people death just because they're born differently. Born sick, commanded to be sound :/ .

Regardless, my thoughts go out to the family of the victims of this awful tragedy :/ .

[chuckdee]

Insha'Allah

Going a different way... this means "If Allah wills it."  What was the purpose of posting that to this thread?  If Allah wills.... what exactly?

[Volucris]

Insha'Allah

Radical Islam is the reason this even happened. Guy played by all the rules, had license to be security guard, carry a firearm, etc. Yet he did all of this because of his beliefs. Might seem like that's "mentally ill" to some, but it's a common belief of millions of people who share his religion. It's like when a Middle Eastern country executes homosexuals, except one of the executioners came here and did it.

This is not a common belief for millions of people. This is a common belief for a few people that like to live outside of the system. Radical extremism is not shared amongst the general population of any religion. Thinking that millions of people share this need to kill is not healthy at all.

Untrue. In Mauritania, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, United Arab Emirates, Somalia, and some of Nigeria, homosexuality is punishable by death. That's over 200 million people. If just one out of every hundred people living there believe homosexuality deserves death, then there you go: millions.

By your reasoning, millions of people think being American deserves death, too. Still not convinced it's mental illness?

Personally I think it's pretty goddamn sick to want people death just because they're born differently. Born sick, commanded to be sound :/ .

Regardless, my thoughts go out to the family of the victims of this awful tragedy :/ .

I'm open to the consideration that it's tied to a mental illness, but we've been shown time and time again that these radicals aren't exactly mentally handicapped as they repeatedly succeed in their spread of terror. Homicidal intent and action is a symptom of various mental illnesses, but not exclusively one.

[xtrafrood]

This is not a common belief for millions of people. This is a common belief for a few people that like to live outside of the system. Radical extremism is not shared amongst the general population of any religion. Thinking that millions of people share this need to kill is not healthy at all.

WRONG!

"In the U.S., about eight-in-ten Muslims (81%) say that suicide bombings and similar acts targeting civilians are never justified. "

That leaves 19%.

Show Image

SOURCE

Take the blindfold of political correctness from your face, my man.

Extremists kill people. Do you not understand? My social correctness keeps me from turning away from other members of society that are different. I've been around actual gunfire 'my man' and I saw the crime tape that went up afterwards. I know the difference between people that want to murder others and people that disapprove of others.

[vito687]

This was a vicious , calculated , and planned attack.  I don't think it was directly affiliated with ISIS but he definitely was self radicalized and gave the "honor" of the killing to ISIS by claiming allegiance .  Like the above comment I find it much more reasonable that this person believes their doctrine so much that they have convinced themselves this is what they need to do.  Just like throwing gays off the rooftops of buildings , beheading, and worse this is normal, expected , and "honorable" behavior .  Also , to further clarify I don't believe ALL Muslims are to blame for anything , it is the small but growing , radical sect that are enacting these terrible crimes of terror.  This guy was on an FBI watch list and interviewed twice (once in 2013, and again in 2014) how was this person able to legally get guns!? So sad my heart and prayers go out to my gay brothers and sisters in FL

[Leslieann]

Yeah mental health has been lacking in resources forever in the US.. we really need to get our act together

Not since forever, just since the early 80's when Reagan gutted the mental health system.

Radical Islam is the reason this even happened. Guy played by all the rules, had license to be security guard, carry a firearm, etc. Yet he did all of this because of his beliefs. Might seem like that's "mentally ill" to some, but it's a common belief of millions of people who share his religion. It's like when a Middle Eastern country executes homosexuals, except one of the executioners came here and did it.

This is not a common belief for millions of people. This is a common belief for a few people that like to live outside of the system. Radical extremism is not shared amongst the general population of any religion. Thinking that millions of people share this need to kill is not healthy at all.

It's not just Islam or mental illness, it comes from religion, plain and simple. Muslim, Mormons, Christians and Catholics. They may not want to kill (though some certainly want them dead), but most of the hatred of the LGBT community comes directly from these religious groups and their teachings.  They preach love, but teach hate.

This country treats LGBT people like sh*t, especially small town bible belt. If you aren't a minority, you have no idea the crap that goes on on a day to day basis in this country.

[Leslieann]

Shooters father claims to be the president of Afghanistan. Crazy seems to run in the family.

http://gawker.com/orlando-shooting-suspects-father-is-a-former-tv-show-ho-1781849968

[katushkin]

Oh look, it's this discussion again...

[xtrafrood]

Yeah mental health has been lacking in resources forever in the US.. we really need to get our act together

Not since forever, just since the early 80's when Reagan gutted the mental health system.

Radical Islam is the reason this even happened. Guy played by all the rules, had license to be security guard, carry a firearm, etc. Yet he did all of this because of his beliefs. Might seem like that's "mentally ill" to some, but it's a common belief of millions of people who share his religion. It's like when a Middle Eastern country executes homosexuals, except one of the executioners came here and did it.

This is not a common belief for millions of people. This is a common belief for a few people that like to live outside of the system. Radical extremism is not shared amongst the general population of any religion. Thinking that millions of people share this need to kill is not healthy at all.

It's not just Islam or mental illness, it comes from religion, plain and simple. Muslim, Mormons, Christians and Catholics. They may not want to kill (though some certainly want them dead), but most of the hatred of the LGBT community comes directly from these religious groups and their teachings.  They preach love, but teach hate.

This country treats LGBT people like sh*t, especially small town bible belt. If you aren't a minority, you have no idea the crap that goes on on a day to day basis in this country.

I agree with you. I was raised Lutheran in the southern part of the USA and have seen my share of intolerance. One of the reasons why I enjoyed computers so much was to get away from it all. 

[chyros]

Insha'Allah

Radical Islam is the reason this even happened. Guy played by all the rules, had license to be security guard, carry a firearm, etc. Yet he did all of this because of his beliefs. Might seem like that's "mentally ill" to some, but it's a common belief of millions of people who share his religion. It's like when a Middle Eastern country executes homosexuals, except one of the executioners came here and did it.

This is not a common belief for millions of people. This is a common belief for a few people that like to live outside of the system. Radical extremism is not shared amongst the general population of any religion. Thinking that millions of people share this need to kill is not healthy at all.

Untrue. In Mauritania, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, United Arab Emirates, Somalia, and some of Nigeria, homosexuality is punishable by death. That's over 200 million people. If just one out of every hundred people living there believe homosexuality deserves death, then there you go: millions.

By your reasoning, millions of people think being American deserves death, too. Still not convinced it's mental illness?

Personally I think it's pretty goddamn sick to want people death just because they're born differently. Born sick, commanded to be sound :/ .

Regardless, my thoughts go out to the family of the victims of this awful tragedy :/ .

I'm open to the consideration that it's tied to a mental illness, but we've been shown time and time again that these radicals aren't exactly mentally handicapped as they repeatedly succeed in their spread of terror. Homicidal intent and action is a symptom of various mental illnesses, but not exclusively one.

I understand you're kind of playing devil's advocate here, but it's frankly in particularly bad taste. I think it's culturally flawed to acknowledge this as an act of any kind of meaningfulness. The sooner we banish intolerant, senseless violence of this nature from the world, the better.

[fohat.digs]

Not since forever, just since the early 80's when Reagan gutted the mental health system.

*   *   *   *   *

It's not just Islam or mental illness, it comes from religion, plain and simple.

The Republicans are slavishly devoted to re-writing history in the attempt to conceal what a disaster Ronald Reagan was for this country.

*   *   *   *   *

Western religions all seem to come from people who have had "visions" wherein "God" has told them what to think and do.

http://altreligion.about.com/od/glossary/a/Revealed-Religion.htm

This (true story) book is a few years old now, but it is about something that happened in the US of A and all the players were seemingly almost "ordinary" Americans (for Mormons, that is) until they went bat**** crazy. After a man killed his brother's wife and newborn in cold blood - because of a "vision" where "God" told him to do it - his trial actually revolved around whether the mere fact that "God" told him to kill people was proof that he was insane.

During the trial, there was considerable conversation regarding the very foundations of Western religion itself, because if (as I was taught when I was a child) the old guys had visions, the writing was "inspired" by God (and in fact it almost seemed like the writers were practically in a trance writing stuff that they could not have made up themselves) then the entirety of Western religion was based on the ravings of lunatics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under_the_Banner_of_Heaven

Boy, how I wish those arguments were still being used in courtrooms today.

[iri]

Breivik thought that Europe is overrun by scary brown people and because of that he killed 8 government clerks and 69 youngsters. And he wasn't mentally ill.

[chuckdee]

It's not just Islam or mental illness, it comes from religion, plain and simple. Muslim, Mormons, Christians and Catholics. They may not want to kill (though some certainly want them dead), but most of the hatred of the LGBT community comes directly from these religious groups and their teachings.  They preach love, but teach hate.

This country treats LGBT people like sh*t, especially small town bible belt. If you aren't a minority, you have no idea the crap that goes on on a day to day basis in this country.

It really is not religion as a whole.  It's not anything as a whole, in all honesty.  It's the vocal and active minority.  That's the way it's always been.  And the way it always shall be.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

[R1N3]

who here has ever read what the talmud or quran say about people who don't follow the talmud or quran?

[vivalarevolución]

Well, that does it, I'm about fed up with mass shootings in the USA.  You can try to blame a single cause, but we have created a society that produces more mass murderers than any other western nation, and we have to seriously chip away at every single cause for these incidents. You can blame an ideology, but a human being can be taught to think in ways that see beyond ideologies and reject them.

We are all in this together, do your best to not succomb to influences that seek to create false enemies and divide people that mostly share common interests and seek peaceful lives.  See each other as individual human beings, not condemn them by a category.  Create love, not hate.  The way you think and talk can have more influence on others than you realize, so hold yourself to a code of treating others as human beings deserving of life and freedom of nonviolent lifestyle, with respect and consideration.

[JaccoW]

who here has ever read what the talmud or quran say about people who don't follow the talmud or quran?

Ever read what the bible said about that?
link.

Every old religion tells people to kill the 'other' people if they believe in another god. People pick and choose what they want to justify their ideas.

[mobbo]

My thoughts go out to those affected, not the maniac who caused it. 

[chuckdee]

who here has ever read what the talmud or quran say about people who don't follow the talmud or quran?

Ever read what the bible said about that?
link.

Every old religion tells people to kill the 'other' people if they believe in another god. People pick and choose what they want to justify their ideas.

Glossed over in that, is the fact that the New Testament pretty much squashes all of that Old Testament individual delivering the wrath of God approach.

Think of it like the Constitution's relation to the amendments.  The amendments make changes to the specific areas, while leaving other areas intact.  And one of those areas is towards an individual not showing the Love of God towards any others. 

Also of note is that the couple of references in the New Testament that he uses in that answer, are taken in the way that much of the Bible that is used for such purposes is - out of context.  For example, start at Matt 10:32, and read through, and you will get a totally separate interpretation that doesn't go towards violence on this Earth, but rather a separation in Heaven.  Context matters in historical as well as contemporary context.  The other, is a parable.  Read it in context, and you will see that it doesn't mean what is intuited from that one verse.

I point this out because of the fact that no matter the work, it can easily be taken out of context, and made to say whatever one would have it say.  It happens from pulpits, and it happens in casual conversation.  But is that a fault of the work?  Or of the individual?

[demik]

**** Ronald Reagan.

[katushkin]

**** Ronald Reagan.

I wish he was alive so he could make a comment about the wall Trump wants to build.

[hashbaz]

Homophobia doesn't make you kill people

Um, WRONG. Plenty of gay and trans people have been murdered by mentally sound bigots. Unless you categorize hatred of queer people as a mental illness by definition, which is a discussion I'm open to. Mental illness is a useful box that people use to explain these kinds of killings without understanding them.

It's not just Islam or mental illness, it comes from religion, plain and simple. Muslim, Mormons, Christians and Catholics. They may not want to kill (though some certainly want them dead), but most of the hatred of the LGBT community comes directly from these religious groups and their teachings.  They preach love, but teach hate.

This country treats LGBT people like sh*t, especially small town bible belt. If you aren't a minority, you have no idea the crap that goes on on a day to day basis in this country.

Yes. And I think the majority of them are utterly convinced that the hate-in-practice they teach is actually an expression of love and fidelity to God. I spent a couple of decades believing and vigorously defending this mindset. It's diseased thinking.

[fohat.digs]

**** Ronald Reagan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_I_Want_to_****_Ronald_Reagan

[R1N3]

who here has ever read what the talmud or quran say about people who don't follow the talmud or quran?

Ever read what the bible said about that?
link.

Every old religion tells people to kill the 'other' people if they believe in another god. People pick and choose what they want to justify their ideas.

I wasn't cherry picking. It was an honest question. And I'd like honest answers from people.

[HoffmanMyster]

Do we have any members from the Orlando area?  Hopefully nobody here had friends/family involved in the tragedy.

Yes we do, quite a few.  :| 

My thoughts are with all affected.   

[chuckdee]

**** Ronald Reagan.

That's all you got from that?  When it wasn't about him,  but this one quote?

OK.

[Bigpock]

Mental illness is a useful box that people use to explain these kinds of killings without understanding them.

If you can tell yourself that your going to kill a bunch of people and most likely die in the process... and you think they are mentally stable?

I just hope everyone from Orlando on here is straight. People are slaughtered almost every other day in these mass killings, this one just hurts a lot more because its on American Soil.

[sth]

Mental illness is a useful box that people use to explain these kinds of killings without understanding them.

If you can tell yourself that your going to kill a bunch of people and most likely die in the process... and you think they are mentally stable?

I just hope everyone from Orlando on here is straight. People are slaughtered almost every other day in these mass killings, this one just hurts a lot more because its on American Soil.

[nugglets]

Mental illness is a useful box that people use to explain these kinds of killings without understanding them.

If you can tell yourself that your going to kill a bunch of people and most likely die in the process... and you think they are mentally stable?

I just hope everyone from Orlando on here is straight. People are slaughtered almost every other day in these mass killings, this one just hurts a lot more because its on American Soil.

I'm going to pretend you meant straight as in "good" or "OK."

In which case, thinking through your choice of words would probably have been a good idea.

[Bigpock]

o sh*t, my bad 

yes i hope everyone is fine, good, safe, alive, well, and to all they're loved ones

[cmadrid]

Good to clear that up