Rec for a Mac keyboard (with numpad) that has exceptionally "cushioned" keys?

[alexcr]

Due to a medical issue, I experience significant pain in the top joints of my fingers, particularly my pinkies, when I type for an extended period.  This is especially the case when I type on keyboards with (i) "hard" keys, i.e. where finger impact feels like slamming down on metal or concrete, and/or (ii) keys that shake/vibrate after impact, however subtly.

My current setup in dealing with this is to use a silicon keyboard cover on my keyboard, which provides some degree of cushion when typing, and then on top of that to wear toe pads (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N915IHG) over my pinkies, which provides further cushion.

I'm wondering whether there might be a better solution out there.  I'd be grateful for any recommendations.  This is an issue that's had a real negative impact on my personal and professional life.  It's tough to describe how bad the pain gets.

[OfTheWild]

Interesting thought - I love how mechanical keyboards and their seemingly endless array of options and customization become some cool options for people that have unique needs.

My immediate thought was a Topre board, Realforce 104U variable comes to mind as being a great option where it has a 'mushy' bottom-out feel and the pinkie keys are the lightest weight. If I was building you a board I would want to test out a variable weight cherry or gateron linear silent switch with maybe landing pads or o-rings under the caps. I might even want you to try something ergonomic and maybe convert to ortholinear to reduce the movement at the knuckle a bit.

Just some ideas.

[Duckyreddy]

Due to a medical issue, I experience significant pain in the top joints of my fingers, particularly my pinkies, when I type for an extended period.  This is especially the case when I type on keyboards with (i) "hard" keys, i.e. where finger impact feels like slamming down on metal or concrete, and/or (ii) keys that shake/vibrate after impact, however subtly.

My current setup in dealing with this is to use a silicon keyboard cover on my keyboard, which provides some degree of cushion when typing, and then on top of that to wear toe pads (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N915IHG) over my pinkies, which provides further cushion.

I'm wondering whether there might be a better solution out there.  I'd be grateful for any recommendations.  This is an issue that's had a real negative impact on my personal and professional life.  It's tough to describe how bad the pain gets.

My first thought was Topre too, The Realforce is a well-regarded board in the community, and for a good reason.
It's very simple and a pleasure to type on, the multi-weight variable weight model as mentioned by OfTheWild is quite rather softer and easy on your fingers.
The weighting looks something like this:

Image Credit to MechKB

The purpose of this layout is to reduce finger strain by using key switch weighting to "zones" (I don't know what else to call it) on the keyboard.
as an example, the Q, A and Z keys, they are done in a light 35g weight so that a typist's pinky can register those keys with ease.


What keyboard are you using at the moment?

[alexcr]

What keyboard are you using at the moment?

Thank you.  I'm currently using a Mac Keyboard With Number Pad with a keyboard cover.  I'm very much new to this world, so this guidance is super appreciated.  The ideal for me, I think, would be a keyboard where it's almost like my fingers are typing on miniature down pillows, if that makes any sense.  It's really the hard impact and shaking/vibrations that hurts more than anything else.

[Duckyreddy]

What keyboard are you using at the moment?

Thank you.  I'm currently using a Mac Keyboard With Number Pad with a keyboard cover.  I'm very much new to this world, so this guidance is super appreciated.  The ideal for me, I think, would be a keyboard where it's almost like my fingers are typing on miniature down pillows, if that makes any sense.  It's really the hard impact and shaking/vibrations that hurts more than anything else.

I see, welcome to this new world )
Miniature down pillows? I got you, I got you.

The Mac keyboard you are using is chiclet/flat, right?
see there is no cushion anywhere and the metal is very rough and unpleasant when you bottom on your keys, that I can relate to.

Are you wishing to go for traditional layout? So the same layout as your Mac keyboard or are you willing to try other options like ortho-linear or ergodox?

This is the Ortholinear, I have not used it before so I can't tell you much about it.



Ergodox here



Edits: Broken links and broken English.

[ErgoMacros]

Hi,

I honestly don't know if this will help, but here goes...

I've just started typing on a keyboard that has "Cherry Clears" on it. Most of my other keyboards have been Mac laptops and "rubber domes".
I am used to"bottoming-out" when I type.

The Cherry clears (to me) are incredibly stiff. This is inspiring me to stop pressing when the key is 30-50% depressed. I'm still learning and training myself, but already rarely "miss a key." I expect I'll end up with an even lighter touch when I'm done.

Maybe Clears will not be for you, but don't necessarily rule out "stiff keys" without trying some.

Just food for thought, and good luck on your journey!
 

[Giorgio]

Cherry MX silent blacks with various combination of orings.
Or a touch screen.
Best solution is a laser keyboard projected on a rubber surface.

[alexcr]

I see, welcome to this new world )
Miniature down pillows? I got you, I got you.

The Mac keyboard you are using is chiclet/flat, right?
see there is no cushion anywhere and the metal is very rough and unpleasant when you bottom on your keys, that I can relate to.

Are you wishing to go for traditional layout? So the same layout as your Mac keyboard or are you willing to try other options like ortho-linear or ergodox?

Thanks!  Yes, I believe my current keyboard can be described as chiclet/flat/metallic.  I do prefer a traditional layout and need a number pad.  My sense is that the issue is less with the layout and more with the tops of my fingers being very sensitive to impact and vibration, which I suppose happens when the key bottoms out.

[alexcr]

Hi,

I honestly don't know if this will help, but here goes...

I've just started typing on a keyboard that has "Cherry Clears" on it. Most of my other keyboards have been Mac laptops and "rubber domes".
I am used to"bottoming-out" when I type.

The Cherry clears (to me) are incredibly stiff. This is inspiring me to stop pressing when the key is 30-50% depressed. I'm still learning and training myself, but already rarely "miss a key." I expect I'll end up with an even lighter touch when I'm done.

Maybe Clears will not be for you, but don't necessarily rule out "stiff keys" without trying some.

Just food for thought, and good luck on your journey!

Interesting.  Yes, I'm not averse to "stiff" keys.  What bothers me is less so the initial impact, i.e. when the finger initially makes contact with the key, but rather the impact when the key hits bottom.  It sounds like this could be helpful in that respect?

[alexcr]

Someone in a different forum made me aware of these gel keycaps...

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Silicone-Gel-Keycap-Set-104-keys-for-Cherry-MX-compatible-colorful-keycaps-oem-profile/32794586624.html

And also soft landing pads...

https://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,slpads&pid=sl120_cs

O-rings have come up a few times, too.

I'd be curious if folks think any or all of these would be helpful, perhaps in combination with some of the other suggestions that are being made.

[chyros]

How about a board with Matias linears? They are dampened with rubber impact cushions, and have a very low actuation force, so they're easy to press.

[daerid]

Another +1 for Cherry Clears here. I bottom out on pretty much every switch except those. The springs in them seem like they'd be a great fit for what y ou need, since they're relatively soft right at the top of the stroke, then rapidly stiffen up during compression. you can fairly easily train yourself to never bottom out on them, and since they have a relatively pronounced tactile bump your accuracy shouldn't really suffer.

[phoible]

How about an AEKII?

Alternatively, Matias sells some full-sized keyboards that are basically the modern equivalent of the AEKII.

[Hyde]

+1 to Topre here, to be honest normally I don't like variable Topre but in your case it might work out really well here.

As people have mentioned Topre were designed for ergonomics to begin with hence the different weight zones.  They're a little on the pricier side but if you can afford it I'd recommend Realforce 104U Silent.  The Silent feels a little bit more refined.  If not the regular version is cheaper and will work just fine too.

If not as others have said Matias Linear or Quiet Pro both have cushioned bottom out.  And are cheaper than Topre (but Topre feels nicer).

Hope this helps.

[Duckyreddy]

Many don't like the Silent Reds aka Pinks for its mushy, soft feel from the internal dampening but I like mine, a lot, tt's weighted at 45g, which is just the right weight for my lady-like fingers and I've tried O-rings with it and I don't like them all that much because of the reduced travel.

They feel cushioned and smooth right out of the box but can be made even better if you're willing to do so! Silicon keycaps may sound ridiculous but apparently, they are extremely soft and would feel like as you described: "Miniature down pillows" )

Hope this helps too

[jackalopephoto]

This is really simple. Buy an older USB mac keyboard. There are many on eBay

[macguy80]

This is really simple. Buy an older USB mac keyboard. There are many on eBay

Yes. I think the model you'll want is the A1048, specifically.

[4sStylZ]

One product wich is strange and interesting : 

https://sensel.com/products/the-sensel-morph

« The Sensel Morph puts this technology into your hands. Swap overlays to change from music, writing, gaming, and more. USB or Bluetooth means the Morph works anywhere. Experience a new level of expression with 20,000 pressure sensors at your fingertips. Whatever your passion, you can make it with Morph. »

[alexcr]

Yes. I think the model you'll want is the A1048, specifically.

Thanks.  For what reasons do you guys recommend this keyboard?  Do you think it would be possible to swap out its keycaps with these...?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Silicone-Gel-Keycap-Set-104-keys-for-Cherry-MX-compatible-colorful-keycaps-oem-profile/32794586624.html

[llisandro]

Lots of good suggestions, which illustrates the problem- there's no perfect kb for everyone, but all of them illustrate the same principles- use lighter-actuating switches, cushioned bottom out (ex: rubber domes),  longer travel to help prevent bottom out, and boards that are more ergonomic- help reduce pain by making you move fingers the smallest amount possible. Typing softer, and improving my touch-typing has helped me a lot. But I never would have discovered what I like best without trying some stuff out.

If you're in the US, go to a best buy- you can try out a couple of these principles. This is the best (ubiquitous) box store for keyboards in the US (a microcenter or more specialized store even better, of if you're in a big city, a kb enthusiast Meetup is prob the easiest way to see a topre.) Importantly bestbuy have some examples of some of the principles for you to feel yourself:

MSFT ergo sculpt is an ergo rubber dome, and the board most big companies give ppl with hand/wrist pain (it's "approved/tested" by some companies' in-house teams that deal with worker injuries, workers comp etc- there was a Reddit AMA on this a while ago) it's rubber dome, but also more ergo layout. Likewise Logitech comfort wave mk570. These are rubber domes- cheaper variants of the venerable but pricey topre, but you can at least try the rubber dome cushion- the topre is just even lighter actuating (and generally regarded as much more refined) switch in the same style.

They should also have some "gamer" boards, so you can try out red keys- linear keys, to see if much lighter actuation feels good.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[alexcr]

If you're in the US, go to a best buy- you can try out a couple of these principles. This is the best (ubiquitous) box store for keyboards in the US (a microcenter or more specialized store even better, of if you're in a big city, a kb enthusiast Meetup is prob the easiest way to see a topre.) Importantly bestbuy have some examples of some of the principles for you to feel yourself:

Thanks.  I live in LA and noted that Elite Keyboards - which seems to be pretty well regarded among folks here? - is not too far from me.  I shot them an e-mail about setting up an appointment, but I haven't heard anything back yet.  I hope I do, though, as it seems like they may have some of the variations that folks are recommending here.

[llisandro]

Thanks.  I live in LA and noted that Elite Keyboards - which seems to be pretty well regarded among folks here? - is not too far from me.  I shot them an e-mail about setting up an appointment, but I haven't heard anything back yet.  I hope I do, though, as it seems like they may have some of the variations that folks are recommending here.

haha, then you're far luckier than me    I envy you, but I don't envy your wallet 

[ErgoMacros]

Yes. I think the model you'll want is the A1048, specifically.

Thanks.  For what reasons do you guys recommend this keyboard?  Do you think it would be possible to swap out its keycaps with these...?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Silicone-Gel-Keycap-Set-104-keys-for-Cherry-MX-compatible-colorful-keycaps-oem-profile/32794586624.html

Hi,
Those are not Cherry MX switches, so no, the Gel caps won't fit.
If you want to try it out anyway you may be able to find one at a used computer store or computer repair place.
Good luck on your search!

[JaccoW]

I would recommend also asking the same question at the Ergonomics subforum.

Here is a post by someone with severe hand arthritis who has similar issues.

My guess would be a board with MX Clears or a Matias quietpro like a few other people have mentioned on here.
Basically keyboards with switches that dampen your downstroke by providing a higher tactile point where the switch activates or by physically dampening them.

[alexcr]

I would recommend also asking the same question at the Ergonomics subforum.

Here is a post by someone with severe hand arthritis who has similar issues.

My guess would be a board with MX Clears or a Matias quietpro like a few other people have mentioned on here.
Basically keyboards with switches that dampen your downstroke by providing a higher tactile point where the switch activates or by physically dampening them.

Thanks!  I just posted in the Ergonomics subforum.  Good suggestion.

[alexcr]

I wanted to follow up with a report on how this all played out.  (I'm the original poster.)  Here it goes...

o After realizing that the Elite Keyboards store is right here in the LA area, I decided it would make sense, as a mechanical keyboard newbie, to stop by there and get a feel for the different switches to see what might work best for me and my condition.  I'm really glad I did this.  Brian at Elite Keyboards is a super nice and helpful guy, and was more than fine with me hanging out and trying out different switches and setups.  I highly recommend stopping by his shop if you're ever in LA!

o At Elite Keyboards, it became clear to me, no pun intended, that Cherry Clears are the right fit for me.  It might be counterintuitive to some, but the stiffer switches actually help with my finger issues in that they make it less likely that I'll bottom out when typing, which seems to be a main cause of my pain.  Some of the other keyboards I tried, like the Topre, would have been a big mistake for me as I found I was bottoming out on them way too easily.

o Unfortunately, Brian didn't have any Cherry Clear keyboards with numpads.  His suggestion to me was to get a WASD CODE 104-Key Mechanical Keyboard with Cherry Clear switches.  I took his advice and ordered one off the WASD website.

o I also purchased soft landing pads from Elite Keyboards and both red and blue Cherry Rubber O-Ring Switch Dampeners from WASD.  The o-rings make a huge difference; after testing both types, I went with the blue o-rings, which offer even more shock reduction and shorter key travel than the red o-rings.  As for the soft landing pads, I tried combining them with the o-rings, but this would often prevent keys from actuating, so I wound up removing the soft landing pads.

o Finally, I got in touch with Nathaniel from Rhinofeed, who had reviewed a gel keycaps set on YouTube...

I really wanted to try out gel keycaps on top of everything else, but was having trouble finding them available anywhere.  Luckily, Nathaniel still had the gel keycaps set that he had reviewed and was looking to sell them.  I bought them off of them.  I'm not using the whole set, but rather about a dozen of the keycaps for the keys I most often use with my pinkies, which are my most sensitive and pain-prone fingers.

Overall, the combination of Cherry Clear switches, Cherry Rubber O-Ring Switch Dampeners, and gel keycaps has been a game changer for me.  I admittedly am often still wearing gel toe pads (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N915IHG) over my pinkies, as well.  Is the setup perfect?  No, there sometimes still is a some finger sensitivity.  But it's a huge step forward from what I was dealing with before.  Thanks so much to everyone who shared their thoughts and advice!  I hope this thread is useful for anyone out there who has similar issues.

[llisandro]

Congrats!

Since it seems your problem is pretty significant, and you're on a mac, I might suggest looking into alternate keyboard layouts (you don't change your keyboard, just the keymapping). The carpalx project has evaluated a lot of layouts in terms of their "effort" model, where home-row typing and reducing strain on weaker fingers is a big focus. Some of these are a little more exotic layouts, but colemak does pretty well in their models, and you can easily toggle that layout on in a mac (dvorak too). But even the more exotic layouts are pretty easy to integrate into a mac and let you toggle back and forth easily. I've only played around a little bit with colemak, but I find my fingers move around and "stretch" a lot less than on QWERTY. It feels a lot more "calm" to type on, as I'm on home row a lot more.

[alexcr]

Congrats!

Since it seems your problem is pretty significant, and you're on a mac, I might suggest looking into alternate keyboard layouts (you don't change your keyboard, just the keymapping). The carpalx project has evaluated a lot of layouts in terms of their "effort" model, where home-row typing and reducing strain on weaker fingers is a big focus. Some of these are a little more exotic layouts, but colemak does pretty well in their models, and you can easily toggle that layout on in a mac (dvorak too). But even the more exotic layouts are pretty easy to integrate into a mac and let you toggle back and forth easily. I've only played around a little bit with colemak, but I find my fingers move around and "stretch" a lot less than on QWERTY. It feels a lot more "calm" to type on, as I'm on home row a lot more.

Thanks!  Very interesting.

[llisandro]

p.s. I followed this guide to use Ukele to make and import a custom layout from carpalx. Took about 5 min to execute, real easy.
I am trying out "partially optimized QWKRFY" layout (5-key delta from qwerty).
cheers

[alexcr]

p.s. I followed this guide to use Ukele to make and import a custom layout from carpalx. Took about 5 min to execute, real easy.
I am trying out "partially optimized QWKRFY" layout (5-key delta from qwerty).
cheers

Thanks.  How long did it take you to get used to the new layout?  I just feel like the traditional layout is so wired in my brain...

[OfTheWild]

I tried switching to Colemak for a month or so and it was honestly fairly intuitive. I just change keyboards and computers so often that it didnt stick around. Maybe one day though.
Glad you found a good setup that works!

[llisandro]

I just started. I've done some colemak exercises and it feels pretty good to me. I think how quickly you pick it up seems to depend on your typing proficiency and if the layout "makes sense" for you. I was looking at Colemak as it was a less severe departure than dvorak. I'm a poorly disciplined typist so I didn't wanna stray too far from what I know. But I've seen people say that they picked up dvorak really fast, maybe because it's a more extreme departure? I'd say just try some.

There are various scoring models to estimate what the "best" layout is, but they weight different parameters differently (i.e., how bad it is to move fingers up/down or side-to-side, how much you penalize weak finger usage).

My weak understanding is:

• Everything is better than QWERTY.
• Dvorak is really good for alternating hands,
• Colemak really tries to use the (whole) home row as much as possible, and keeps ZXCV where it normally is for convenience over layout optimization (that was big for me).
• dvorak and colemak have by far the biggest userbases of the alternate layouts
• Workman de-emphasizes home-row, takes into account longer fingers can reach upper row more easily
• Then there are a LOT more less common ones, and the truly optimized ones go to an ergo layout with thumb buttons as mentioned above.   

   


I'd check out the Ergonomics board, there's a lot of info there.

[mits71]

Thanks.  I live in LA and noted that Elite Keyboards - which seems to be pretty well regarded among folks here? - is not too far from me.  I shot them an e-mail about setting up an appointment, but I haven't heard anything back yet.  I hope I do, though, as it seems like they may have some of the variations that folks are recommending here.

Best custom ROMs for Android

[alexcr]

Thanks.  I live in LA and noted that Elite Keyboards - which seems to be pretty well regarded among folks here? - is not too far from me.  I shot them an e-mail about setting up an appointment, but I haven't heard anything back yet.  I hope I do, though, as it seems like they may have some of the variations that folks are recommending here.

Best custom ROMs for Android

I've only been there once, but I was very impressed with the level of service and care; I recommend visiting.  You might want to try calling them during working hours if they're not responding over e-mail.

[nerlit]

Congrats!

Since it seems your problem is pretty significant, and you're on a mac, I might suggest looking into alternate keyboard layouts (you don't change your keyboard, just the keymapping). The carpalx project has evaluated a lot of layouts in terms of their "effort" model, where home-row typing and reducing strain on weaker fingers is a big focus. Some of these are a little more exotic layouts, but colemak does pretty well in their models, and you can easily toggle that layout on in a mac (dvorak too). But even the more exotic layouts are pretty easy to integrate into a mac and let you toggle back and forth easily. I've only played around a little bit with colemak, but I find my fingers move around and "stretch" a lot less than on QWERTY. It feels a lot more "calm" to type on, as I'm on home row a lot more.

Can we use with windows