Wrist pain with Ligitech MX518

[zoltan99]

I recently started to get wrist pain with my MX518, a few months ago I tried an MS 3.0 and it seemed to cause pain even when the MX518 hadn't started to cause pain yet.  But now some months later the wrist has started to hurt.  I have used this mouse for 2+ years without trouble.

The right key on the MX518 double clicks when pressed so I need a new pointing device anyway.  What do you guys recommend?


sorry for topic typo/

[Bucky]

Well if you are asking what people recommend based on the last mouse causing pain it is going to be whatever makes you comfortable. I recently switched to MX 518 due to temperamental tracking in my Roccat Kone (shame as it is a beautiful mouse), and in terms of quality it is hard to beat. If you want similar quality with a different feel I would maybe check out the G500, G9, Naos 3200, or Razer Abyssus.

For claw grip g9 tends to be the favorite, if you use palm grip and MX518 is causing pain, do you have really large or really tiny hands? That tends to be the mouse most people believe to be most comfortable, so there must be something specific that causes issues I would think.

[noodles256]

i want a ligitech

[bionicroach]

Welcome to Geekhack!

If you're having wrist pain, I'm not sure any mouse is going to make that much of a difference since from the wrist forward, they all basically require the same range of motion from your arm to operate.  The Evoluent that Ripster mentioned *might* help since it is a vertical mouse and will put your arm in a neutral position, though.

Barring that, you may have to look into an alternative input device like the RollerMouse (review) that uses different hand motions and divides up the workload between your two hands.  Or you could try using a trackball with your left hand, at least part time to give your right a break.  (Hopefully you're not a gamer...that makes changing up your input device a lot more difficult.)

Also check the standard ergonomic stuff -- is your table low enough that you don't have to bend your wrist at an awkward angle, etc.

[daerid]

It's funny, after spending over $750 in mice over the last 10 years, I'm actually going back to the MX 518 because none of the new mice have the quality that it does. Except maybe for the IE 3.0, but I can't stand that damn scroll wheel and side buttons.

[hyperlinked]

If you're having wrist pain, I'm not sure any mouse is going to make that much of a difference since from the wrist forward, they all basically require the same range of motion from your arm to operate.

If wrist motion is the origin of pain, this would be true, but hardly anyone posting to GH actually describes in full why something hurts. I found some of the old Logitech mice MX1000 series and similiar models to be brutal devices because of a combination of the size of the mouse, the location of the buttons, and the slope of the buttons. What I found was that as my hands got tired, it got harder to click and drag because of all the afore mentioned qualities. The result in my case was the need to grip hard from all angles on the mouse to control it and keep the mouse button down. Not surprisingly, my mouse hand started to hurt after extended use.

Also, if you're using the wrong kind of mouse for your style of mousing, it can lead to some real comfort or pain issues. If you're a claw hand, you really need a mouse designed for claw hand mousing.

[Bucky]

Yea I have tried some expensive mice and the 518 is just so solid in so many ways that I am going to stick with it for now. I really would like it if they gave it a facelift to look a little nicer but have the same functionality. The click is so crisp, the form is really perfect, I honestly have no complaints aside from the kind of ugly look (conversely the Kone I have looks amazing but doesn't have the best performance).

[hyperlinked]

I honestly have no complaints aside from the kind of ugly look (conversely the Kone I have looks amazing but doesn't have the best performance).

Dude, buy latex dip, a few sharpies, and invest in some art lessons. Problem solved. If that kind of mouse is what feels right to you, then it's very likely that any mouse that you find that agrees with your hand will look more like your MX518 than not.

[HaveANiceDay]

Claw grip is an abomination. How could anyone look at a mouse and say "oh yeah, this is how you hold it. Feels good"
What the ****?!

[Arc'xer]

Claw grip is an abomination. How could anyone look at a mouse and say "oh yeah, this is how you hold it. Feels good"
What the ****?!

Because the majority of mice on the market are too big for claw grip i.e. they are mostly for palm grip. You need small and light mice when using the claw grip; lachesis, salmosa, salmosa-asian edition, abyssus, cm spawn, or any other small mouse light mouse that allows you to do so.

In reality the claw name and pictures of people using the claw grip exaggerate the negative look of it. Most people actually kinda relax a bit more and so their fingers aren't as forced inward. Some though have been playing for years and do force them in out of muscle-memory or retrained themselves on a different grip for a different sensitivity. And the same people who tend to show off and think they are using claw in reality don't even use claw nor if they did know how to use it properly.

I also notice most people do use a claw-fingertip grip when using a computer normally. So they assume that it's something they pick up from normal habit but when gaming they change their grip in some cases contradictory to what they normally use.

These are a few claw examples: [Ex:1]; [Ex:2]; [Ex:3]; [Ex:4](Example 4 is probably the truest claw grip user as he is a high-sensitivity(1"/360), rather than low-sens(low-continuous(mouse mostly on the pad) or low-lifter and or accel lifter users) claw of the previous examples. [Ex:5](Shows off quite well the relaxed claw grip most people probably use, almost bleeding into a pure-fingertip grip).

[looserboy]

lol i have had the same problem with pain. i used my mx 518  for 7 years, esl gaming, rts, ego shooters. role play games ... and if happened from one day to another. after i have started to play more league of legends

first you should buy these powerballs^^ it will help the first time. (helped me a powerball costs 5$)

a trackball wont be false for only browsing, watching movies or surfing the internet. (for relaxing your stressed hand 20$)
i was forced to buy a bigger mouse. i bought a roccat kone+ never had pain again. but you should try some mice, every hand is different.

dont go for smaller mice^^  the pain comes from an unrelaxed positioning and palm resting on the mousepad and your mouse dont sustain your hand correctly -
while you re holding your mouse your side of the hand is going more in, thats the pain in your palm comes from.  a more plain position and your hands hurt less, but you cant use a mouse .

your wrist  will stop hurting if your hand is more sustained by the mouse.  i think your hand grown a bit and your mx is to small right now, that was my problem. so i went for a bigger mouse and the pain dissapeared.

and if its urgent buy some "Cold Care, Kühlgel, Pferdesalbe" because your hand is stressed.

less gaming for some time buddy^^ i would strongly recommend^^
and if you dont game^^ buy a trackman trackball and you wont have problems anymore


your hand should be in a more plain position more resting on a mouse than holding her and you shouldnt make a claw this happens if the mouse is to small.

[Bilbin]

I have issues with my right index finger from clicking and being the only finger on my right hand that actually hits letters. Had a cortisone injection to the palm (knuckle joint) a while ago since it used to be a lot worse, but now it's creeped up to the middle joint, in between knuckle and tip joint.

I might be willing to invest in a trackball for my left hand but for the time being massaging with arthritis cream really helps, try it on your problem wrist.

[looserboy]

oh man i am sry for you .. never ever go again for cortisone.. it will **** up all healthy things there are left in your hand. ^^

i would recommend "pferdesalbe" and  a trackball (trackman logitech) no atirhis cremes or cortisone ones. i would be afraid of these things.

a lot of peopel with rsi and hand problems using trackballs and are very happy with never having pain again.

but typing is still a problem i think.

[Bilbin]

Yeah, I'm not too keen on another cortisone injection since it was one of the oddest sensations I've experienced, that and it deteriorates the tendons and softens the cartilage.
The arthritis cream I use is arthro-aid direct and I don't use it that often to be honest, but it does help when it starts to flare up with swelling. It contains glucosamine & shark cartilage so I think it's pretty safe.

Possibly even other creams like ice gel or heat gel could work. I think pferdesalbe would be hard to get where I'm from since I've never even heard of it. Last resort for me before getting another cortisone injection would probably be arthritis pills my mother has stocked.

I was thinking about getting more of a trackball pad type of thing like the kensingtons, would be better suited if I were to use it with my left hand in my opinion.
Typing is still a problem but I think I could adjust it by slowly learning to touch type properly with my right hand.

[looserboy]

pferdesalbe is like cooling gel, but if first cools then it warmes up.
its a gel used for racehorses. after races - against stressed sinews and ligaments and muscles. and what works for them is working for men.
my aikido sensei told me this after some hard training-units.

pferdesalbe .. i dont know the right name in english.. --> http://thecow.me/38b16f05

and use no creams, or cortisone creams at all, your skin gets addicted to this and your skin will need a long time to get out of this habit. creams arent good.

the only thing i know is that US healthcare systems arent as good as in europe.


right 10 finger typing
a trackball and a lot of relaxing your hand will be most important :-)
i thought too about a kensington, but bought a logitech trackman , does a good job - left or right handed arent a problem and it isnt expensive. (rts games are real fun with that )

[hyperlinked]

Claw grip is an abomination. How could anyone look at a mouse and say "oh yeah, this is how you hold it. Feels good"

You have much better fine control of the mouse with a claw grip. It's most useful for things like first person shooter games where you have to do really tricky aiming or perhaps with doing graphic design.

[hyperlinked]

pferdesalbe is like cooling gel, but if first cools then it warmes up.
its a gel used for racehorses. after races - against stressed sinews and ligaments and muscles.

Topical ointments are popular therapies in Eastern and Western drugstore home medicine, but for the most part, they don't do what they say they do. Your skin is a pretty convincing barrier to foreign particles. It's hard for anything to get through your skin enough to reach down to the level of the muscles and ligaments. What gets through does get diluted and carried away by your circulatory system so it's not like it just hangs around and homes in on your injured areas.

Think about the physics behind something that cools then warms your skin. Put a thermometer to where you applied it. It won't be any different than on the same area on your other side of your body. The ointment is a skin irritant that makes it feel like it's getting colder or warmer, which isn't to say it has no therapeutic effect, but it's a different therapeutic effect than what you're using it for. It distracts you from the pain. You don't feel it because it masks the pain with sensations of warmth or cold.

[Techguru]

As discussed in previous post http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?18415-DXT-Vertical-mouse, i had discomfort in my right hand from using a normal mouse. I was advised to use the DXT Ergonomic Mouse by my physio.
The main advise was to practise using my left hand as often as possible which the DXT has allowed me to do. I have tried other ergonomic mice which have just aggravated me shoulder due to the mice requiring whole arm movements.

The DXT is really accurate and allows the shoulder and arm to rest. I now use both hands throughout the day which has really helped with my discomfort.

[daerid]

Speaking of 518s, I just got mine in the mail. Man, I forgot how solid optical mice are. I can even forgive it's ****ty feeling scroll wheel because of how well it tracks.

[HaveANiceDay]

Speaking of 518s, I just got mine in the mail. Man, I forgot how solid optical mice are. I can even forgive it's ****ty feeling scroll wheel because of how well it tracks.

With the mx518 angles are a snap!

[hyperlinked]

As discussed in previous post http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?18415-DXT-Vertical-mouse, i had discomfort in my right hand from using a normal mouse. I was advised to use the DXT Ergonomic Mouse by my physio.

As another option, have you considered trying a trackball? I use one of those for a few days at a time when my mousing hand starts acting up. Then I go back to the mouse.

[looserboy]

if kensington is too expensive http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-910-000806-Trackman-Marble-Mouse/dp/B001F42MKG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1307055196&sr=8-1 this will do^^  i prefer them more than this thumbthings and no pain at all. i own myself one and got rid off my rts and wrist pain ;-)

[Azuremen]

It's funny, after spending over $750 in mice over the last 10 years, I'm actually going back to the MX 518 because none of the new mice have the quality that it does. Except maybe for the IE 3.0, but I can't stand that damn scroll wheel and side buttons.

 
I actually was in a similar situation, going through mice and settling back on my Mx518. However, I think the Mionix Naos, which I am now using most of the time, is more comfortable. It is a bit broader and shaped quite well, though doesn't rise up as much as the Mx518 does. These two mice though are the most comfortable I can think of that require very little actual grabbing of the mouse, unlike say my G9x

[daerid]

The absolute most comfortable mouse I've ever used, 100% without a doubt.. is the Intellimouse Explorer 3.0. Although, I have huge hands and spindly fingers, so that probably has something to do with it.

[alec]

When I begun to get right wrist pain (from long gaming sessions ) the thing that helped me was offloading some of the mouse load to left hand.
In office work mouse on the left makes a lot of sense. And I never had a problem since I converted