Author Topic: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice  (Read 25262 times)

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Offline gallowgeek

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #50 on: Fri, 03 March 2017, 08:44:14 »
I actually like the feel of the Logitech gaming mice as opposed to the Razer ones. Not that I am a fan of the said company, but I just like the feel of the mouse buttons. Even though they're both using the Omron switches, I just feel that the Logitech G502 that I have has a softer feel to it in every mouse press.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #51 on: Fri, 03 March 2017, 21:21:35 »
I actually like the feel of the Logitech gaming mice as opposed to the Razer ones. Not that I am a fan of the said company, but I just like the feel of the mouse buttons. Even though they're both using the Omron switches, I just feel that the Logitech G502 that I have has a softer feel to it in every mouse press.

IDK if razer does it,  but logitech will feel more shallow and lighter because the prong which contacts the switch has a specific h shape, where the bars prevent overtravel  in engaging the switch.

This is good for the switch, but it will reduce the travel

Offline Aelon

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #52 on: Sat, 08 April 2017, 13:32:28 »
I recently bought 10 OMRON "D2FC-F-7N (20M)(OF)" switches for my ASUS ROG Gladius Mouse.



I know that 20M is 20 Million click lifespan. However do you know what (OF) means in paranthesis ?


Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #53 on: Sat, 08 April 2017, 14:49:37 »
I recently bought 10 OMRON "D2FC-F-7N (20M)(OF)" switches for my ASUS ROG Gladius Mouse.

Show Image


I know that 20M is 20 Million click lifespan. However do you know what (OF) means in paranthesis ?


not in the spec sheet . don't know.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #54 on: Sat, 08 April 2017, 18:38:38 »
I have no idea, but can only assume it's a special batch made for s company, for example, the spec sheet doesn't list the "M" variant of the switch which is made specifically for Microsoft mice.
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Offline Rameau

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #55 on: Sun, 09 April 2017, 10:05:59 »
What do you say about this new one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/391705302200?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Another thing - I read on Omron's site that the (1M) (for example) it an indication of the mechanical lifespan of the switch, while the electrical lifespan is usually much lower (for example, the electrical lifespan of the one with 1mil mechanical lifespan, is only 100k)

Offline Aelon

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #56 on: Sun, 09 April 2017, 11:17:38 »
What do you say about this new one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/391705302200?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Another thing - I read on Omron's site that the (1M) (for example) it an indication of the mechanical lifespan of the switch, while the electrical lifespan is usually much lower (for example, the electrical lifespan of the one with 1mil mechanical lifespan, is only 100k)

I am no expert on OMRON switches but I think these blue buttoned (50M) ones are very stiff.
Where do I know ? Well, my Asus ROG Gladius mouse has those switches inside for the "Forward" and "Backward" buttons. They are blue buttoned and very stiff to press. I think it's the tradeof for such a high lifespan value.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #57 on: Sun, 09 April 2017, 15:26:01 »
While researching the OF and K switch, I found a little documentation on the D2F-F-7N and confirmed that it is a 75g (low spring pressure) switch (this info has been added to the guide).
Still not sure if the number refers to assembly line packaging, but would make sense as Omron also builds automation lines.


As for the K switch, apparently these have been nicknamed "blue dots" and are being touted as a 50m direct replacement for the the D2F-F-7N, including spring pressure. Remember, you are used to operating these with a lot more leverage, so a brand new switch in your hand will feel very stiff, that said, the documentation claiming these are a direct replacement for D2F-F-7N comes from Chinese sellers and as many of us are well aware, some of these guys will tell you it folds laundry and makes you meals if they thought it would sell you on it.
Filco MJ2 L.E. w/Vortex case, hand milled case, custom feet, custom paint, Klaxxon key caps, lubed and o-ringed Jailhouse Blues made from vintage Cherry MX Blues, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, removable cord, sound dampened. Winkey blockoff plate | Magicforce 68 w/Outemu Blues |KBT Race S L.E. w/Ergo-Clears, custom WASD keyset | Das Pro w/browns (Costar model) | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline Rameau

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #58 on: Sun, 09 April 2017, 18:57:50 »
So there is no trusted source regarding this K version?

And what about the mechanical\electrical lifespan variation?

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #59 on: Sun, 09 April 2017, 19:01:49 »
So there is no trusted source regarding this K version?

And what about the mechanical\electrical lifespan variation?



You only need to worry about lifespan  if you have the proper soldering equipment and technique..


Because I've noticed that most people are putting in these switches outside of the proper soldering guidelines..

Check my WMO ultimate thread below for soldering guide for the omron switches.

Offline Rameau

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #60 on: Mon, 10 April 2017, 03:46:38 »
I actually did read the guide to properly soldering the OMRON switches and soldered accordingly, so I don't think this is an issue atm, but thanks!

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #61 on: Mon, 10 April 2017, 05:20:34 »
So there is no trusted source regarding this K version?

And what about the mechanical\electrical lifespan variation?
Because this is (what I assume to be) a machine assembled, bulk ordered part, Omron won't just hand out documentation on it as they don't expect the general public to need it. 

As for lifespan, it's right on the side of the switch.
Filco MJ2 L.E. w/Vortex case, hand milled case, custom feet, custom paint, Klaxxon key caps, lubed and o-ringed Jailhouse Blues made from vintage Cherry MX Blues, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, removable cord, sound dampened. Winkey blockoff plate | Magicforce 68 w/Outemu Blues |KBT Race S L.E. w/Ergo-Clears, custom WASD keyset | Das Pro w/browns (Costar model) | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #62 on: Mon, 10 April 2017, 18:10:54 »
So there is no trusted source regarding this K version?

And what about the mechanical\electrical lifespan variation?
Because this is (what I assume to be) a machine assembled, bulk ordered part, Omron won't just hand out documentation on it as they don't expect the general public to need it. 

As for lifespan, it's right on the side of the switch.



keep in mind that number is marked assuming non- full travel,  as in the switch will be actuated but not be pushed all the way down..


In certain mice like mx518/ g400,  the button flap which goes over the switch in an h shape to prevent over travel..


in mice like the microsoft intellimouse, it's a flat bar which goes full-travel to the bottom out the switch..



So in theory ,  the same switches will last MILLIONS of times longer in a logitech mouse vs the microsoft intellimouse..



IN THE END.. this number simply doesn't matter to the end user, because replacement is cheap.


Offline Leslieann

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #63 on: Mon, 10 April 2017, 19:30:30 »
IN THE END.. this number simply doesn't matter to the end user, because replacement is cheap.
Agreed, the number is almost irrelevant, but not because of price (ever try changing one in a G700?), but because lifespan is much more depending on how you abuse it, which is ridiculously easy to do.
Filco MJ2 L.E. w/Vortex case, hand milled case, custom feet, custom paint, Klaxxon key caps, lubed and o-ringed Jailhouse Blues made from vintage Cherry MX Blues, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, removable cord, sound dampened. Winkey blockoff plate | Magicforce 68 w/Outemu Blues |KBT Race S L.E. w/Ergo-Clears, custom WASD keyset | Das Pro w/browns (Costar model) | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline MarvinJamesNL

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #64 on: Mon, 08 May 2017, 06:54:09 »
Hi all,

My apologies if this post is in the wrong thread, but it's my best guess.

I have opened up my Corsair M65 Pro RGB to have a look "under the hood".
So I did find the expected D2FC-F-7N(20M) switches as the main buttons.

However, the buttons on the side (the ones you click by using your thumb) show no model or brand name except for a logo.
I took a picture of them:


I tried a "reverse image search" of the logo, but I come up empty.
Are these also Omron switches? And if not, does someone know what I'm looking at here?

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #65 on: Mon, 08 May 2017, 07:59:32 »
Hi all,

My apologies if this post is in the wrong thread, but it's my best guess.

I have opened up my Corsair M65 Pro RGB to have a look "under the hood".
So I did find the expected D2FC-F-7N(20M) switches as the main buttons.

However, the buttons on the side (the ones you click by using your thumb) show no model or brand name except for a logo.
I took a picture of them:
Show Image


I tried a "reverse image search" of the logo, but I come up empty.
Are these also Omron switches? And if not, does someone know what I'm looking at here?

those  are not omron.


However,  they're probably just as good..

Omron's patent is out on this switch, so they've been thoroughly cloned by many many other manufacturers..



KEEP IN MIND, there is nothing special about official omrons..


We'll assume they have somewhat stricter quality control..  but, even then, the manufacturers of mice are only using them because they're afraid of people like me making threads about Not getting omrons on the internet..


It's a cult following issue for us die-hards.. hahahahaha

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #66 on: Mon, 08 May 2017, 16:24:02 »
those  are not omron.

However,  they're probably just as good..
This...
Omrons are not god, it's a mechanical item which can easily be reproduced, especially when a patent and tech documents give all you need to copy it.

If they are working and you don't hate the feel, leave them alone. These switches are actually quite delicate to pressure and heat.
If they are damaged, swap them with what is there or the equivalent Omron.
Filco MJ2 L.E. w/Vortex case, hand milled case, custom feet, custom paint, Klaxxon key caps, lubed and o-ringed Jailhouse Blues made from vintage Cherry MX Blues, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, removable cord, sound dampened. Winkey blockoff plate | Magicforce 68 w/Outemu Blues |KBT Race S L.E. w/Ergo-Clears, custom WASD keyset | Das Pro w/browns (Costar model) | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline OkinaDaikon

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #67 on: Mon, 08 May 2017, 18:00:42 »
All I can say is thanks for this insightful thread, I always wanted to learn more about mice switches!

I has a couple gaming mice where the switches were acting up, but I never know which switches I should get as a replacement. This will definitely help! :thumb:

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #68 on: Mon, 08 May 2017, 20:47:09 »
Glad you found it helpful. :)
Filco MJ2 L.E. w/Vortex case, hand milled case, custom feet, custom paint, Klaxxon key caps, lubed and o-ringed Jailhouse Blues made from vintage Cherry MX Blues, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, removable cord, sound dampened. Winkey blockoff plate | Magicforce 68 w/Outemu Blues |KBT Race S L.E. w/Ergo-Clears, custom WASD keyset | Das Pro w/browns (Costar model) | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline MarvinJamesNL

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #69 on: Tue, 09 May 2017, 04:45:05 »
those  are not omron.

However,  they're probably just as good..
This...
Omrons are not god, it's a mechanical item which can easily be reproduced, especially when a patent and tech documents give all you need to copy it.

If they are working and you don't hate the feel, leave them alone. These switches are actually quite delicate to pressure and heat.
If they are damaged, swap them with what is there or the equivalent Omron.

Oh of course! They work fine. And I can imagine they might take "cheaper" switches for the side buttons as in general I assume they are not used as much as the main LMB and RMB.

It was purely from an information perspective that I wanted to figure what switches they used in this area of the mouse, because I'm doing a review of it. :)



Offline P3t4

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #70 on: Wed, 10 May 2017, 16:04:08 »
I got some new empiric data on the durability of the d2f-01f-t: 6 months of hanzo gameplay :P I'm about to swap them to new ones since the button cuts the circuit before the click while releasing pressure.

Offline Winand

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #71 on: Mon, 15 May 2017, 12:20:04 »
(on the previous page) i ordered d2f-01f-t but they sent me d2f-f.) though the pictures of these two were mixed up on that ebay page.
It is really made in Japan. At least there's "omron japan" title.
p.s. I thought it's harder to solder a switch, though i'm not sure if i've done it completely right.)
p.p.s. for some reason old good a4tech feels better than new cool M705
« Last Edit: Mon, 15 May 2017, 14:01:01 by Winand »

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #72 on: Mon, 15 May 2017, 19:20:55 »
(on the previous page) i ordered d2f-01f-t but they sent me d2f-f.) though the pictures of these two were mixed up on that ebay page.
It is really made in Japan. At least there's "omron japan" title.
p.s. I thought it's harder to solder a switch, though i'm not sure if i've done it completely right.)
p.p.s. for some reason old good a4tech feels better than new cool M705


doesn't matter that much.. but ebay's unreliable, many counterfeits   if you want to get REAL OMRONS  for SURZIES...

Mouser or digikey is the place to get official..


That said...   Even if they're fake... again, they're probably 100% just as good.. hahahahahha

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #73 on: Mon, 15 May 2017, 19:22:42 »
Next time you do it.. make sure to get a solder sucker, and get the old solder off first..


Offline Rameau

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #74 on: Fri, 07 July 2017, 06:32:53 »
I came across a new model:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-OMRON-D2FC-F-K-50M-Ultra-Subminiature-Switches-RAZER-Logitech-APPLE-Mouse-/112068354027?hash=item1a17cb5feb:g:UbQAAOSwIgNXlEh8

And I saw that Logitech claim that they use in the new G903 (vs the G900) a new switch which lasts 50m click (vs 20m in the G900). Do you think this is legit?
I bought a few of the 50m, but they weight less than the 20m (easier to click), and it seems odd. They feel like the 5\10m...

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #75 on: Fri, 07 July 2017, 15:56:18 »
I came across a new model:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-OMRON-D2FC-F-K-50M-Ultra-Subminiature-Switches-RAZER-Logitech-APPLE-Mouse-/112068354027?hash=item1a17cb5feb:g:UbQAAOSwIgNXlEh8

And I saw that Logitech claim that they use in the new G903 (vs the G900) a new switch which lasts 50m click (vs 20m in the G900). Do you think this is legit?
I bought a few of the 50m, but they weight less than the 20m (easier to click), and it seems odd. They feel like the 5\10m...

The 50m would only work in mice designed specifically to  minimize overtravel like logitech's.

If you put it in a Microsoft Wheel mouse optical for example, which always full travels on the click,    it would never even get close to 50m.

Offline Rameau

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #76 on: Sun, 09 July 2017, 03:31:07 »
I came across a new model:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-OMRON-D2FC-F-K-50M-Ultra-Subminiature-Switches-RAZER-Logitech-APPLE-Mouse-/112068354027?hash=item1a17cb5feb:g:UbQAAOSwIgNXlEh8

And I saw that Logitech claim that they use in the new G903 (vs the G900) a new switch which lasts 50m click (vs 20m in the G900). Do you think this is legit?
I bought a few of the 50m, but they weight less than the 20m (easier to click), and it seems odd. They feel like the 5\10m...

The 50m would only work in mice designed specifically to  minimize overtravel like logitech's.

If you put it in a Microsoft Wheel mouse optical for example, which always full travels on the click,    it would never even get close to 50m.

What's overtravel? What's full travel? Am I better off with the regular 20mil in the G900 or is this 50mil version better?

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Definitive Omron Switch Guide for Mice
« Reply #77 on: Sun, 09 July 2017, 07:50:59 »
I came across a new model:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-OMRON-D2FC-F-K-50M-Ultra-Subminiature-Switches-RAZER-Logitech-APPLE-Mouse-/112068354027?hash=item1a17cb5feb:g:UbQAAOSwIgNXlEh8

And I saw that Logitech claim that they use in the new G903 (vs the G900) a new switch which lasts 50m click (vs 20m in the G900). Do you think this is legit?
I bought a few of the 50m, but they weight less than the 20m (easier to click), and it seems odd. They feel like the 5\10m...

The 50m would only work in mice designed specifically to  minimize overtravel like logitech's.

If you put it in a Microsoft Wheel mouse optical for example, which always full travels on the click,    it would never even get close to 50m.

What's overtravel? What's full travel? Am I better off with the regular 20mil in the G900 or is this 50mil version better?



overtravel is OVER what is necessary to complete the actuation

full travel is the maximum amount of travel



If you have a regular g900, stick to the orginals unless you know that the dimensions on the new 50mil are the same,   the travel characteristics especially have to match.