Model M mini issues

[iMav]

I am extremely disappointed with clickykeyboards.com right now.  The space saver Model M I just purchased from them is a disaster.  Half a dozen keys stick REALLY bad...and some of the others simply don't register keystokes.  They DO have a money back guarantee...however, I don't WANT to give it back.  I simply want it functional.  

I have emailed clickykeyboards.com, but am not sure if there is anything they will do for me barring taking advantage of my 30-day money-back guarantee.  

I guess I'll give Unicomp a call and see if they can repair it for me.  $30 + shipping...but if they do a bang up job, it will be worth it.  (although this is likely going to delay my vinyl dye project for a good month; since shipping to/from Iraq is not exactly a speedy process)

DANG IT YOU CLICKYKEYBOARDS.COM LOSERS!!!!!!

[edited - I was a bit harsh on clickykeyboards.com due to my disappointment.  They are allowing me to send it back and are even refunding my initial shipping]

[xsphat]

Man, that sucks. I would be really pissed. I hope Unicomp does a good job for you.

[xsphat]

This is all kind of creepy - my "n" was stuck last night and I am on the eve of buying a re-furbed Model M mini myself - though from a different supplier.

I can get down with you not wanting the money back - at some point it is just about getting the product you want.

[iMav]

This is all kind of creepy - my "n" was stuck last night and I am on the eve of buying a re-furbed Model M mini myself - though from a different supplier.

I can get down with you not wanting the money back - at some point it is just about getting the product you want.

I think I may just end up getting my money back.  For over here, I may just purchase a new EnduraPro from Unicomp.  Yes, it has the annoying numpad...but with the built in trackpoint (which I absolutely LOVE on my thinkpad), I won't have to reach over it to get to my mouse.  (although, I really wish the EnduraPro had three pointing device buttons)

[xsphat]

Let me know how you like it, I have been curious about Unicomp's product for some time. I was considering their Mighty Mouse keyboard for a while, but I have never herd of anyone buying it.

[iMav]

I called up Unicomp and spoke with Jim Owens.  I inquired about having them repair my Model M mini.  He said that it would be prohibitively expensive and that I'd be better off purchasing a new keyboard from them.  I explained to him that I have a 84-key Model M "space saver" and that I did not believe they had a comparable keyboard for sale.  To my delight, he said, "We used to sell those.  Give me 24 hours to see if I can dig one up out of our warehouse."  

I got an email from him last night stating that he DID, indeed, find one and would be shipping it out to me in the morning ($59 + shippping).   So, needless to say, I am sending the the old one back to clickykeyboards.com for a refund.  

As I mentioned before, the folks at clickykeyboards are refunding my money to INCLUDE the initial shipping costs.  So, I'm just out the $7 it cost me to send it back.  (not BAD!)  

So, $125 for a used Model M mini from clickykeyboards compared to $59 for a NEW one from Unicomp.  

I'll make sure and takes pics when I get it.  I'm unsure if this is a Unicomp-branded keyboard that they made for a while or if it is unsold IBM or Lexmark stock...all I know is that it is a new keyboard and is, supposedly, 84-key, buckling-spring, numpad-less.  I'll keep you updated.

[xsphat]

Jim is the guy I've talked to there, he seems like a good guy. Would you think I was a copy cat if I order one as well?

I think I am going to buy the HHKB Pro 2 as well, but that 84 key is really cool. I have several desks around my apartment, and a real keyboard at each is what I am going for.[/youtube]

[iMav]

Would you think I was a copy cat if I order one as well?

Yes.  But that's not, necessarily, a bad thing.  

If you are seriously considering it, I'd say wait till I receive mine so that we know what, exactly, it is we are getting.  I'll post lots of pics and info on it so you can be an informed consumer.

[iMav]

Here's a pic I took of the Model M mini before sending it back to ClickyKeyboards:



As you can see, cosmetically, it looked GREAT!!  What a shame.

[xsphat]

iMav, did you ask clickykeyboards if you could exchange it for another? I can understand you not wanting to trust them, so I'm not going to give you crap about it. It's just tha this is the only time I have heard something bad about this company.

[iMav]

iMav, did you ask clickykeyboards if you could exchange it for another? I can understand you not wanting to trust them, so I'm not going to give you crap about it. It's just tha this is the only time I have heard something bad about this company.

They said that they may have an extra one and that, yes, they would be willing to exchange it.  However, with the possibility of getting a brand-spanking new one at half the cost, I did not take them up on that offer.

(like I said before...i was a  bit hard on them due to my disappointment...they are making it right, and I commend them for that)

[iMav]

Quick update:

Clickykeyboards received my returned Model M 84-key space saver and refunded my money...INCLUDING my initial shipping costs.  So, they definitely did right by me.  

I WOULD strongly suggest buying from them...however...with so many great NEW keyboards available with proper tactile feedback, I can't do so.  Especially considering most of the newly-available options are SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than the 15-20+ year old refurbs they offer.

[Mikecase00]

FYI, a lot of times when a key on an M board sticks, doesn't click, or misses key strokes, it's because the spring isn't seated correctly on the nub of the switch.  I've fixed up several boards with these sorts of problems by gently removing the spring, positioning it correctly on the nub, and then forcing it over the catch with a couple of pairs of pliers (needle nose to push down on the spring, and curved needle nose to keep the spring from bending around).  Probably difficult to imagine without pictures, but it's a pretty easy process and has successfully repaired several non-functioning keys for me in the past.

[iMav]

As I mentioned before, the space saver I purchased from Clickykeyboards arrived back in the states and they refunded my money.  I asked them if they had diagnosed the problem.  They reported that the keyboard must've been damaged during transit.  Apparently, several of the plastic rivet points were busted off.  (for reference, the plastic rivets hold the internal keyboard assembly and buckling springs to the metal plate).

Here is a webpage that details how to fix such a problem (it's definitely more than I was willing to do...especially considering the $130 price tag).

[Furcifer]

I purchased a Model M Space Saver from clickykeyboards.com last December. I immediately noticed that some of the keys were binding, even sticking in the down position. Like iMav, I resisted returning it because I really wanted a MMSS and I couldn't find one anywhere else. I told myself it must just need a little breaking in. I reasoned that the experts at clickykeyboards would have noticed if it was broken. By the time I realized the problem was permanent, it was too late to return it.

It's highly unlikely the board was damaged during shipment, as it was carefully packed, and the box was in excellent condition. I can't check the internals for damage because I don't have a driver that can reach the little hex screws holding together the case. When I pulled the keycaps and inspected the springs, there didn't seem to be anything obviously wrong, and it looked clean inside. It has gotten a bit better over time, but some of the keys are still not usable.

[iMav]

That sounds the same as my issues.  Have you been in contact with clickykeyboards to see if they will repair the keyboard for you?

I, too, am skeptical of their QC on these boards.  Their questionable quality control coupled with their outrageous pricing has me now recommending AGAINST ordering from them.

If you must have a bucking spring keyboard...I suggest either Unicomp or Ebay.

[fkeidjn]

Fairly recently did I see such price increase on clickykeyboards.  Just two years ago, their white label model M's used to cost $40-$45, and their blue labels $30-$40.

Occasionally you'll find some new model M keyboards at a good price.  Most of the keyboards are either lemons or need refurbishing work in them.

[mr_sf_applet]

Unicomp's great. With eBay, you're taking your chances. And if you want a buckling spring keyboard in the space saver (no number) pad form factor, Unicomp doesn't offer any, at least until the buckling spring Mighty Mouse arrives next year. Even at eBay or clickykeyboards.com, Model M Space Savers don't come along all that often.

My experience has been somewhat  different. I've had problems with buckling spring keyboards brought through eBay on several occasions, and have had no problems with the couple of keyboards I've gotten from clickykeyboards.com. They have arrived very well packed and in perfect working condition.

But I must say that the anecdotal evidence in this topic is a little disturbing, to say the least. I have my fingers and toes crossed over the condition of the M15 I'll be getting this week.

[fkeidjn]

But I must say that the anecdotal evidence in this topic is a little disturbing, to say the least.

What's even more disturbing is the fact that the ps/2 adapter that clickykeyboards sells is more than twice the price you see from Amazon marketplace ($20 vs $8.49, respectively, without shipping charges)  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

[Whiskey in the Jar-o]

Boutique businesses have boutique prices.

[mr_sf_applet]

Hey, I'm one of the idiots who bought that Ziotek PS/2 to USB Adapter from clickykeyboards.com, and you know what, it doesn't bother me that I might have overpaid for it. I mean, I'm not going to buy an iOne Scorpius M10 from Brandon for $62 when I know that I can get it on eBay for $40. And I'm not going to pay him $125 for an IBM Space Saver II when I can get a new one on eBay for $80. But it's not his fault if I fail to do my due diligence as a consumer. And I've learned so much about the various species of Model M's from his site that I'm willing to subsidize him a little.

Prices are one thing, but QC issues are another. Like I said, my personal experience of ordering keyboards from clickykeyboards.com has been entirely satisfactory. And I'm hoping that the experiences related by iMav and Furcifer are aberrations rather than the norm. But I don't know, and it bothers me.

[fkeidjn]

Hey, I'm one of the idiots who bought that Ziotek PS/2 to USB Adapter from clickykeyboards.com, and you know what, it doesn't bother me that I might have overpaid for it.

I'm not implying what I said in a negative manner.  I too was one of the idiots who bought from there.  I didn't mean to insult anybody .

[mr_sf_applet]

I'm not implying what I said in a negative manner.  I too was one of the idiots who bought from there.  I didn't mean to insult anybody .

Oh, no insult taken. I just wanted to make the point that, at least for me, price is less of a concern that the possibility of getting a bum keyboard.

[iMav]

I just wanted to make the point that, at least for me, price is less of a concern that the possibility of getting a bum keyboard.

I agree.  They, likely, need to charge more to simply make their venture worth while.  I certainly use their site when I have a question about a particular IBM keyboard.  They are a great resource.  

However, based on the fact I, personally, received a bum board from them, coupled with the outstanding service I have received from Unicomp, I feel much more comfortable recommending Unicomp for all things buckling spring.  

And if this new buckling spring mighty mouse is as great as I hope it will be, perhaps we can order a batch of "GeekHack" labeled ones.  

[Bluemercury]

As I mentioned before, the space saver I purchased from Clickykeyboards arrived back in the states and they refunded my money.  I asked them if they had diagnosed the problem.  They reported that the keyboard must've been damaged during transit.  Apparently, several of the plastic rivet points were busted off.  (for reference, the plastic rivets hold the internal keyboard assembly and buckling springs to the metal plate).

Here is a webpage that details how to fix such a problem (it's definitely more than I was willing to do...especially considering the $130 price tag).

Hi, im new to this forum, but i actually own two model M5 keyboards, one M5-1 which is working nicely, and one M5-2, which has problems with the "o" key, anyway i was trying to fix the damn key, and i came across that site you mentioned, but im having troubles understanding the instructions, since my native language it not english, i was wondering if you understand where to use the specific bolts.
Also are Model M the only buckling spring keyboards out there? or there are companys making new ones?

regards,

[Bluemercury]

I tried to contact Sandy through the email, but i get an adress error......i really want to try to fix the keyboard

[iMav]

Also are Model M the only buckling spring keyboards out there? or there are companys making new ones?

Unicomp sells new buckling spring keyboards.  

http://www.pckeyboard.com

[mr_sf_applet]

And it looks like they will also repair just about any buckling spring keyboard ever made.

http://pckeyboard.com/repair.html

[Bluemercury]

Yes but its way too expensive, since i live in Europe.....

Edit: Anyway i manage to fix the key that was giving problems with my model m5-2. I mailed to clickykeyboards and they told me to try to change the metal spring for a new one without diassemble the keyboard, and it worked.

[Bluemercury]

I called up Unicomp and spoke with Jim Owens.  I inquired about having them repair my Model M mini.  He said that it would be prohibitively expensive and that I'd be better off purchasing a new keyboard from them.  I explained to him that I have a 84-key Model M "space saver" and that I did not believe they had a comparable keyboard for sale.  To my delight, he said, "We used to sell those.  Give me 24 hours to see if I can dig one up out of our warehouse."  

I got an email from him last night stating that he DID, indeed, find one and would be shipping it out to me in the morning ($59 + shippping).   So, needless to say, I am sending the the old one back to clickykeyboards.com for a refund.  

As I mentioned before, the folks at clickykeyboards are refunding my money to INCLUDE the initial shipping costs.  So, I'm just out the $7 it cost me to send it back.  (not BAD!)  

So, $125 for a used Model M mini from clickykeyboards compared to $59 for a NEW one from Unicomp.  

I'll make sure and takes pics when I get it.  I'm unsure if this is a Unicomp-branded keyboard that they made for a while or if it is unsold IBM or Lexmark stock...all I know is that it is a new keyboard and is, supposedly, 84-key, buckling-spring, numpad-less.  I'll keep you updated.

I've been trying to get in touch with the guys from unicomp but i've tryed two email adresses:

unicomp@pckeyboard.com
info@pckeyboard.com

But they're giving errors back....

[mr_sf_applet]

Yes but its way too expensive, since i live in Europe.....

Edit: Anyway i manage to fix the key that was giving problems with my model m5-2. I mailed to clickykeyboards and they told me to try to change the metal spring for a new one without diassemble the keyboard, and it worked.

So tell me, how do you do that exactly? There's  a buckling spring I want to replace on an ancient 1390131, and I sure don't want to be cutting off plastic rivets or anything.

[Bluemercury]

Yes but its way too expensive, since i live in Europe.....

Edit: Anyway i manage to fix the key that was giving problems with my model m5-2. I mailed to clickykeyboards and they told me to try to change the metal spring for a new one without diassemble the keyboard, and it worked.

So tell me, how do you do that exactly? There's  a buckling spring I want to replace on an ancient 1390131, and I sure don't want to be cutting off plastic rivets or anything.

Well in my case i just removed the spring gently from the plastic part without desassembling the keyboard. I first look carefully to one of my spare buckling springs and saw how to remove the spring. Putting the new spring was easier, just try to put it so that the plastic stem gets inside the spring, you dont need to force, just put the key stem then i try it.

[Mikecase00]

Well in my case i just removed the spring gently from the plastic part without desassembling the keyboard. I first look carefully to one of my spare buckling springs and saw how to remove the spring. Putting the new spring was easier, just try to put it so that the plastic stem gets inside the spring, you dont need to force, just put the key stem then i try it.

That's exactly how I've done it.  Carefully remove the old spring if it's still attached, then gently press the new spring over the post inside the spring sleeve hole.  It takes two tools to do it well.  A pair of needle nosed pliers (curved ones work best here) to help guide the spring and keep it from wiggling off the post help, and then something to compress the spring onto the post (a pen, another pair of pliers, etc.)  I've repaired several "broken" buckling spring boards this way.

Someday I'll work up the guts to disassemble a whole board and give it the whole "Sandy rebuild", especially since it's supposed to help make the board even clickier!

[mr_sf_applet]

Thanks for the info, guys. The "Sandy rebuild" is exactly what I want to avoid.

[Bluemercury]

Speaking of sandy rebuild i was going to tear my keyboard too before the guy at clickykeyboards advised to do this first, anyway i though the sandy explanation was a bit confusing, still dont know which screws to use and which side to put them.....if anyone has a better explained guide i would appreciate.

[rnak92a]

Hi, Everyone.

This is my first post, as I only recently discovered this forum.  

I've received from clickykeyboards.com today a 1988 MMSS and it had some key return issues.  F4 and F11--somewhat important keys!--would intermittently stick to the point it was intolerable.  The rest of the keys on the 'board feel better than any of my other nine model Ms of various types, so I informed Mr. Ermita I was determined to repair and keep this keyboard.  :lol:

He suggested swapping key stems with Print Screen and Pause, which I did, and it made no difference:  the keys still stuck intermittently.  He then suggested washing the interior of the key stems in warm, soapy water to dislodge any potential gunk, which I did;  again, no difference:  the keys still stick!  I replied to Mr. Ermita a third time, and followed his final suggestion of a minute amount of lubricant, e.g., WD-40, which I gently applied to the inside of the offending key switches.  Like others here, I inspected the packaging, inner springs and other keys and found no other defects, so I was quite flustered and at a loss as to what to do with this enigmatic (but wonderful) piece of hardware.  I applied the WD-40, wiped away small amounts of excess lubricant, reattached the key stems, and pressed each key 100 times;  neither of them stuck once.

I gleefully informed Mr. Ermita that the WD-40 seemed to solve my problem, but that I would continue to bang on the keyboard over the holidays and get back to him re: keeping the keyboard.  He did inform me that he is at the end of his supply of MMSS's, and that procuring one that is suitable for sale is increasingly difficult--this situation may account for his price increases that others have mentioned.  

I hope my account helps others who may have trouble with their boards.  For reference, this is the tenth product I've purchased from Mr. Ermita/clickykeyboards.com and the first issue I've ever had with any of them.  Mr. Ermita himself, as some may know, is also quite customer-friendly and affable.  I'd recommend him if you're not willing to chance whatever garbage some ebay seller may try to foist upon you (if you can justify to yourself the slightly inflated prices Mr. Ermita charges;  I saw it thus:  the keyboard is my most often used component and is essential to me, so I'll pay a bit more and know I've a reasonably good product and a real return policy should anything bad happen along the way).

Cheers,

~rnak92a

[iMav]

This is my first post, as I only recently discovered this forum.

Welcome aboard!  

Glad to hear you resolved your sticky key issues.  The Model M mini I purchased from clickykeyboards was actually damaged in transit (as confirmed by them once it was returned).  I am quite fond of the one I received from Unicomp...even though I am favoring my HHKB lately.

Being a space saver and buckling spring fan, you'll likely be interested in the Mighty Mouse replacement Unicomp is planning for 2008.  (space saver with buckling springs).

[rnak92a]

This is my first post, as I only recently discovered this forum.

Welcome aboard!  

Glad to hear you resolved your sticky key issues.  The Model M mini I purchased from clickykeyboards was actually damaged in transit (as confirmed by them once it was returned).  I am quite fond of the one I received from Unicomp...even though I am favoring my HHKB lately.

Being a space saver and buckling spring fan, you'll likely be interested in the Mighty Mouse replacement Unicomp is planning for 2008.  (space saver with buckling springs).

iMav,

Please provide more information about this Mighty Mouse replacement (release date, etc, if known).  I am indeed interested in such a keyboard.  Perhaps I might also query Jim Owens who facilitated the repair of my 1987 1391401 Model M.  

Cheers,
~rnak92a

[fkeidjn]

Hi, Everyone.

This is my first post, as I only recently discovered this forum.  

I've received from clickykeyboards.com today a 1988 MMSS and it had some key return issues.  F4 and F11--somewhat important keys!--would intermittently stick to the point it was intolerable.  The rest of the keys on the 'board feel better than any of my other nine model Ms of various types, so I informed Mr. Ermita I was determined to repair and keep this keyboard.  :lol:

He suggested swapping key stems with Print Screen and Pause, which I did, and it made no difference:  the keys still stuck intermittently.  He then suggested washing the interior of the key stems in warm, soapy water to dislodge any potential gunk, which I did;  again, no difference:  the keys still stick!  I replied to Mr. Ermita a third time, and followed his final suggestion of a minute amount of lubricant, e.g., WD-40, which I gently applied to the inside of the offending key switches.  Like others here, I inspected the packaging, inner springs and other keys and found no other defects, so I was quite flustered and at a loss as to what to do with this enigmatic (but wonderful) piece of hardware.  I applied the WD-40, wiped away small amounts of excess lubricant, reattached the key stems, and pressed each key 100 times;  neither of them stuck once.

I gleefully informed Mr. Ermita that the WD-40 seemed to solve my problem, but that I would continue to bang on the keyboard over the holidays and get back to him re: keeping the keyboard.  He did inform me that he is at the end of his supply of MMSS's, and that procuring one that is suitable for sale is increasingly difficult--this situation may account for his price increases that others have mentioned.  

I hope my account helps others who may have trouble with their boards.  For reference, this is the tenth product I've purchased from Mr. Ermita/clickykeyboards.com and the first issue I've ever had with any of them.  Mr. Ermita himself, as some may know, is also quite customer-friendly and affable.  I'd recommend him if you're not willing to chance whatever garbage some ebay seller may try to foist upon you (if you can justify to yourself the slightly inflated prices Mr. Ermita charges;  I saw it thus:  the keyboard is my most often used component and is essential to me, so I'll pay a bit more and know I've a reasonably good product and a real return policy should anything bad happen along the way).

Cheers,

~rnak92a

Would you care to post some pictures of how you did it?

[rnak92a]

Not much to show:  I popped off the keycap and key stem beneath it, sprayed a very small amount of WD-40 into the key stem, reattached it to the spring, and tested whether the key still stuck.  I also disassembled the 'board itself with the appropriate nut driver, but had no interest in delving so deeply into repairs for the 'board;  I reassembled it, followed the steps above, and all seems well.  Sorry if I wasn't clear enough and you expected something different  :oops:

~rn

[iMav]

Please provide more information about this Mighty Mouse replacement (release date, etc, if known).  I am indeed interested in such a keyboard.  Perhaps I might also query Jim Owens who facilitated the repair of my 1987 1391401 Model M.

Check it.

[rnak92a]

Awesome.  I'll be in for at least one once they're available.

Cheers,

~rn