geekhack
geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: Krogenar on Sat, 13 July 2013, 10:22:48
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My original project was inspired by Kaporkle's 3D renderings for groupbuys and thought it would be great if we could reliably reproduce the colors available from Signature Plastics. So I decided to try to determine the Pantone numbers for each chip. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantone) PMS (Pantone Matching System) is used by various industries to talk about color in clear terms. Mashby very generously bought me a SP ABS Color ring, and had it sent to me.
It was an excruciating process, trying to get Pantone numbers for each, and also very subjective. So I abandoned that project, and instead decided it would be easier (and much faster) to make high-res scans of each chip. My hope is that this might help people explore new color schemes. The files are large at 600dpi, and I think it's cool seeing these chips so large on a screen.
It had been pointed out by many people that these scans are not ever going to replace an actual color ring. Signature Plastics, GMK and other keycap manufacturer's always provide the caveat that the final colors are sometimes different from what's on the chip, and that the colors will change over time. Please keep this limitation in mind when using the scans.
UPDATED: (07/19/2013)
The files have been made available by Mashby on his Flickr photostream (thank you Mashby!) which can be found here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/sets/72157634628432952/with/9294353672/
The original high-res TIFF files can be found here, thanks to GH Good Guy Supreme, Mashby:
Blues: http://l.mashby.com/Zs44
Brown-Whites: http://l.mashby.com/cjGz
Colors: http://l.mashby.com/n3LJ
Greys 1: http://l.mashby.com/hydi
Greys 2: http://l.mashby.com/sdsm
UPDATED: (10/31/2013)
ijprest, with access to a ColorMunki colorimeter has performed some really great color scans! He has intergrated this color information in his Keyboard Layout Editor (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/) as selectable color palettes. Phenomenal work!
For now, I'm going to be cropping Dianoda's superior scans so that they look a bit more presentable.
UPDATED: (03/05/2014)
Thanks to Dianoda for providing scans of SP's PBT chips (http://min.us/muyOgFJnwJ8hW).
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you probably looked into this but did you check to see if SP has RGB, Hexadecimal or CMYK for each color?
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My original project was inspired by Kaporkle's 3D renderings for groupbuys and thought it would be great if we could reliably reproduce the colors available from Signature Plastics. So I decided to try to determine the Pantone numbers for each chip. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantone) PMS (Pantone Matching System) is used by various industries to talk about color in clear terms. Mashby very generously bought me a SP ABS Color ring, and had it sent to me.
It was an excruciating process, trying to get Pantone numbers for each, and also very subjective. So I abandoned that project, and instead decided it would be easier (and much faster) to make high-res scans of each chip. My hope is that this might help people explore new color schemes. The files are large at 600dpi, and I think it's cool seeing these chips so large on a screen.
I'll start with the 'greens' as they are the smallest group.
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VAG is always number one.
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This is awesome Krogenar. Thank you for putting so much time into this.
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Ideally, we should get the entire colour ring in one shot and with as many other scales present as possible. NCS, RAL, Pantone, CII and what have you so that people can always relate their colours to whatever colour scales they may have access to irl.
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I wish there was some way to post a zip file -- I know I've seen someone else do it -- but the .zip files themselves range from 15 to 62 MB, so I'm not even sure if the forum software will allow it. I could do them individually, after converting from TIF files to JPG. Looks like that's going to be it for now. I'd like to upload the entire collection to the wiki at some point.
Here's another green tile.
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And another.
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(reaches into his lapel pocket)
Oh dizzam, look!
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(Krogenar stares at the ABS chip, silently judging it.)
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Zip file with all the colors in it? Why not host them as jpg somewhere like Imgur (<--highly recommended) and then link them all in a few posts, one per color range? You can mass-select a lot of files to upload to Imgur in a row.
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Doh! I can post these on Flickr too if you like. I never thought of that, but would be happy to at native resolution.
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Somebody with access to a spectrophotometer needs to step up on this one.
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dianoda and i have been working on this krog. the problem with scanners is that they are quite difficult to color calibrate (although i don't know, maybe you have a drum or flatbed that _is_ calibrated with an appropriate measurement device?
however, recall that flatbed scanners are just upside down copy stands with a motor. that is, they're cameras. but, for some dumb reason, i have yet to find a flatbed scanner that will just give you its raw sensor output.
thankfully, actual cameras are much better about this, and at the very least. actual light source color temperature can be measured quite easily and corrected for. additionally, if you have a fully calibrated chain (camera, monitor) and high quality chips of known emissivity (eg, a pantone swatch), you can build a corrective profile to apply to that sensor output.
anyway, to this end, i sent dianoda a set of abs chips last week and he's going to start on them shortly, if he hasn't already. two sources of imaging would actually be nice for comparison purposes, and process refinement but krog, you starting on the PBT chips first would be more expedient in terms of getting _some_ relatively accurate values to work with. in particular, matt3o wants to pull averaged RGB data for his key picking front-end.
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I took the liberty of putting together a Flickr album with all the individual scans. You can find it at this link (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/sets/72157634628432952/). Fantastic work Krogenar. I really like how they came out!
They need to be reordered a little bit, the upload process took things a little bit out of order from the way Krogenar sent them to me. I moved them out of my DropBox, so I'll have to sort them when I'm back at the office on Monday.
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2812/9277548375_f484443655.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9277548375/)
OAV (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9277548375/) by cpkey (http://www.flickr.com/people/compactkey/), on Flickr
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3783/9280198582_a74edbc390.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9280198582/)
GC (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9280198582/) by cpkey (http://www.flickr.com/people/compactkey/), on Flickr
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Those are beautiful, Krogenar (just looked at mashby's hosted photoalbum). Great work, and is definitely very helpful!
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This is a great project! It would benefit both the keyboard color chooser (http://lab.cubiq.org/kbcc/#WA,NN,WA,NN) and the what the abs (http://lab.cubiq.org/wta/) projects. Also would be great to have the same for PBT!
BUT...
PLEEAASE add a the same pure white reference for each chip! Also probably a scan of all chips together would be far more accurate in terms of post-calibration!
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dianoda and i have been working on this krog. the problem with scanners is that they are quite difficult to color calibrate (although i don't know, maybe you have a drum or flatbed that _is_ calibrated with an appropriate measurement device?
You're right -- color is very difficult to quantify at times. Someone mentioned a spectrophotometer, but man are they expensive. When I was trying to do PMS matching, I tried to create a standard viewing area to make it easier using one of those 'sunlight' producing lamps, and it was just mind-numbing.
however, recall that flatbed scanners are just upside down copy stands with a motor. that is, they're cameras. but, for some dumb reason, i have yet to find a flatbed scanner that will just give you its raw sensor output.
I acknowledge that these scans won't be perfect, but they're a start at least. The way I do it for my own business is this: I print out a gamut (about 300 colors swatches) on the substrate and change spot colors in the file if needed. These scans look color-accurate to me, but they may not be perfect. If your monitor is different from mine then they'll look different on your screen. But I don't see any way around that aside from using a spectrophotometer to take CMYK or Lab values.
thankfully, actual cameras are much better about this, and at the very least. actual light source color temperature can be measured quite easily and corrected for. additionally, if you have a fully calibrated chain (camera, monitor) and high quality chips of known emissivity (eg, a pantone swatch), you can build a corrective profile to apply to that sensor output.
Yeah, I noticed that a lot people just photograph the chips and post them with groupbuys. My use of them is really just to shuffle them around on a screen, so I'm not worried about them being perfect, just usable.
anyway, to this end, i sent dianoda a set of abs chips last week and he's going to start on them shortly, if he hasn't already. two sources of imaging would actually be nice for comparison purposes, and process refinement but krog, you starting on the PBT chips first would be more expedient in terms of getting _some_ relatively accurate values to work with. in particular, matt3o wants to pull averaged RGB data for his key picking front-end.
It took about 2 hours to do everything, and I have the original 100MB scans as well, before I cropped them all apart, in the event that we need to color correct the images, as a group. I'm willing to do a PBT ring as well.
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This is a great project! It would benefit both the keyboard color chooser (http://lab.cubiq.org/kbcc/#WA,NN,WA,NN) and the what the abs (http://lab.cubiq.org/wta/) projects. Also would be great to have the same for PBT!
BUT...
PLEEAASE add a the same pure white reference for each chip! Also probably a scan of all chips together would be far more accurate in terms of post-calibration!
Here's what I did -- I have a CanoScan 5600 flatbed scanner. I placed the chips into groupings on the scanner bed, keeping them as square as I could for post cropping, then scanned them at 600 dpi. Saved them all as TIF files, and then started the process of cropping them out. The images I've posted in the thread are JPGs with the quality settings maxed out. The bottom of the scanner 'lid' has a white cushion, so that's what you would be seeing in the background of the larger scans. How would I add a pure white reference to this process to improve it? I have white posterboard card stock that I could use as a backing -- would that suffice?
Oh, and someone please tell me why I've fallen in love with this color:
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5484/9280315368_6408f50e41_o.jpg)
It's not a pink, per se, nor is it really a red or an orange. It's a salmon color -- so far the most intriguing color on the ring to me. :)
Mashby, thanks so much for putting up the Flickr channel, that's awesome. Matt, I didn't know you had made the 'What the ABS' app, it's great! I think I may be able to get my hands on a spectrophotometer. What workflow is going to yield us the best results? Scanning each chip directly?
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Here's what I did -- I have a CanoScan 5600 flatbed scanner. I placed the chips into groupings on the scanner bed, keeping them as square as I could for post cropping, then scanned them at 600 dpi. Saved them all as TIF files, and then started the process of cropping them out. The images I've posted in the thread are JPGs with the quality settings maxed out. The bottom of the scanner 'lid' has a white cushion, so that's what you would be seeing in the background of the larger scans. How would I add a pure white reference to this process to improve it? I have white posterboard card stock that I could use as a backing -- would that suffice?
basically what I'd need is at least all colors of the same kind (reds/greens/blues/...) scanned together with the same white reference. The whiter the better (matte, not glossy). If you can't find a good enough white reference at least place the whiter color chip you have on all scans.
I know this is pretty empirical but at least it will be better than the ****ty pictures we have so far.
THANKS!
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i have an i1 display 2 that has been sitting for a while. i sent my abs ring off to dianoda because i'm getting another one with a few more colors the second SP makes another batch. i will be able to do output comparisons of all the images we create.
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note that my display 2 is 4-5 years old and no longer nearly as accurate as it once was. i have it sealed in a bag with dessicant, but i'm not going to pretend that that's enough to preserve its accuracy. we'll just have to do the best we can *shrug*
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Also colors may change over time. So at the same SP color code may not corresponds the same real/Pantone color :eek:
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i have an i1 display 2 that has been sitting for a while. i sent my abs ring off to dianoda because i'm getting another one with a few more colors the second SP makes another batch. i will be able to do output comparisons of all the images we create.
That is awesome. I have an XRite i1, but not the display 2 version. I think it might be able to give me a CMYK breakdown of each chip, and it does have a special 'white' base chip to scan, for calibration purposes.
Oh, and Matt, here's a low-res JPG of the one of my scans:
[attach=1]
Again, this is a low-res JPG. The original file is a 600 dpi TIF, 49 MB, 2512x6864 pixels. I can supply you with these files Matt, if that would help. The subsequently cropped files are taken directly from these source files, with no processing or alterations, just cropping.
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that is surely a better picture than what we have now. I'll try to work on that and see what I can do with it, it misses a white reference though, I don't think I can use the bottom right white as reference
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that is surely a better picture than what we have now. I'll try to work on that and see what I can do with it, it misses a white reference though, I don't think I can use the bottom right white as reference
I'll send it (the original) along to mashby, and hopefully he can upload it to the Flickr channel for you.
EDIT: Successfully uploaded to mashby -- thanks again, mashby, for hosting these files. Once we get this all worked out, we should probably try to get them on the wiki.
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i've never tried using the display 2 on anything but a backlit display. i'm not sure that it's particularly accurate without a good 75-100lm (actually that's probably the wrong unit, but you get the idea) of light into the pigments.
iirc the display 2 (and similar RGB spectrophotometers) is 3 photosensors that are pigmented to a mean of R, G and B. each pigment energizes at the given mean wavelength. some measurement of energy (either differential or charge) is read to determine emitted light color. two major downsides to this kind of sensor: 1) limited lifetime. the pigments are not stable, and are particularly sensitive to humidity. 2) accuracy is very low without a heck of a lot of energy into the sensor.
there's also some issue with gamut. for example, it's apparently not really very accurate on my 98% aRGB u2711. i've been too lazy to calibrate for quite a while, so ymmv and mmmv. lol
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actually speaking of i1, they now offer a shoot and click camera profiling solution bundle with the new display pro (the upgraded display 2)
http://www.amazon.com/X-Rite-EODIS3CCPP-Display-ColorChecker-Passport/dp/B007V9N65O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373892732&sr=8-1&keywords=i1+display+pro
tempting and not much more expensive than the display 2 was.
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i've never tried using the display 2 on anything but a backlit display. i'm not sure that it's particularly accurate without a good 75-100lm (actually that's probably the wrong unit, but you get the idea) of light into the pigments.
iirc the display 2 (and similar RGB spectrophotometers) is 3 photosensors that are pigmented to a mean of R, G and B. each pigment energizes at the given mean wavelength. some measurement of energy (either differential or charge) is read to determine emitted light color. two major downsides to this kind of sensor: 1) limited lifetime. the pigments are not stable, and are particularly sensitive to humidity. 2) accuracy is very low without a heck of a lot of energy into the sensor.
there's also some issue with gamut. for example, it's apparently not really very accurate on my 98% aRGB u2711. i've been too lazy to calibrate for quite a while, so ymmv and mmmv. lol
Even if we can get RGB/CMYK values for the chips, it never looks quote right, going from an illuminated LCD screen to reality just never perfect. I just figure if it's easier to see these things to some degree of accuracy it will mean more interesting groupbuys. When I did Pantone matching for the CCoG groupbuy's kaporkle renderings, I think the colors were much brighter than they should have been. But so long as we provide that caveat, it should work.
I'd love to know where these color codes (the names) come from. Is "GGK" a way of saying, put in 2 parts black, and one part of something else? It must be. Maybe it's a 60/30/10 code? 90% of "G" pigment and 10% of "K" pigment? That's my guess. Maybe we can do scans with the whitest chip (a known value) in order to see how the scans should be corrected?
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Maybe we can do scans with the whitest chip (a known value) in order to see how the scans should be corrected?
THIS! :D
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I posted the .TIFF file to the gallery.
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5349/9294353672_5a5b139a9e.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9294353672/)
Master Scan 1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9294353672/) by cpkey (http://www.flickr.com/people/compactkey/), on Flickr
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I posted the .TIFF file to the gallery.
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5349/9294353672_5a5b139a9e.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9294353672/)
Master Scan 1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9294353672/) by cpkey (http://www.flickr.com/people/compactkey/), on Flickr
Thank you sir!
So, Matt, if I repeated these scans, but with each scan including the *ahem* "whitest" ABS chip (WCK? which one is it? Disturbing in light of my recent posts on the Trayvon Martin verdict lately, LOL) would that be sufficient? I have a few more of these sorts of scans -- would rescans be necessary, or could you determine the level of correction needed by checking the existing scan that already has the white chip in it? Let me know. I don't want to crush mashby's dropbox account completely. :)
EDIT: Mashby, you've got my scan of the white, black and brown group of tiles.
(Krog's phone rings)
"Hello, Rev. Sharpton." :mad:
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keep scanning with a white chip reference, I'll try to apply the same calibration to the picture you already posted. I hope it is going to work (if the scanner doesn't add some weird color correction by itself...)
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keep scanning with a white chip reference, I'll try to apply the same calibration to the picture you already posted. I hope it is going to work (if the scanner doesn't add some weird color correction by itself...)
If Mashby can post the original scan that includes the white chip, would that be enough? This is the white chip with a number of other chips at the same time, not the cropped version. I figure whatever color shift is present will be consistent across all scans? I just sent it to his account, and it's only 20 MB.
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If Mashby can post the original scan that includes the white chip, would that be enough?
absolutely
I figure whatever color shift is present will be consistent across all scans? I just sent it to his account, and it's only 20 MB.
I have the feeling that they tend to add some kind of calibration based on the scanned colors, but I guess it can be disabled.
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The browns and whites are posted.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3777/9292435187_b24b8bb555.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9292435187/)
Master Scan - Browns & Whites (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9292435187/) by cpkey (http://www.flickr.com/people/compactkey/), on Flickr
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Mashby, matt, all that's left are the blue chips (all on one scan) and the grays (one large scan, and a smaller). I'm in the processing of uploading them to Mashby now.
EDIT: Remaining three scans (2 for gray chips and 1 for blue chips) are now uploaded to Mashby.
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I'd love to know where these color codes (the names) come from. Is "GGK" a way of saying, put in 2 parts black, and one part of something else? It must be. Maybe it's a 60/30/10 code? 90% of "G" pigment and 10% of "K" pigment? That's my guess. Maybe we can do scans with the whitest chip (a known value) in order to see how the scans should be corrected?
no, i talked to melissa about this at length when i was working on this: http://wiki.geekhack.org/index.php?title=Signature_Plastics_Parts_Numbers
the codes are somewhat arbitrary (not quite, since similar colors get similar codes) and code to a specific plastic purchased from a manufacturer of colored plastics. they don't mix these colors themselves at SP (it would be too hard to achieve uniformity given their tooling).
you, out of everyone, krog, should know that white is never quite white ;). measurement is the only way we're going to get absolute accuracy (relative to our measurement devices HAH). that's why i like that we have multiple samples incoming right now; your scans, dianoda's photos, and so on. basically, take the literal mean of all these "reasonably well calibrated" images in the same color space, and you'll get the least common denominator of what your keys will probably look like ;)
speaking of the wiki page, i think there's going to be some weird stuff happening wiki-wise shortly, but i also believe a migration path will be provided, so go ahead and add this content to that page (or add that content to this thread; either way is fine! :)))
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The remaining three master scans have been posted.
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5538/9293654159_6e84b798a5.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9293654159/)
Master Scans - Greys #1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9293654159/) by cpkey (http://www.flickr.com/people/compactkey/), on Flickr
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3829/9293597827_b782ab707b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9293597827/)
Master Scan - Greys #2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9293597827/) by cpkey (http://www.flickr.com/people/compactkey/), on Flickr
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7331/9293611207_b468f8d470.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9293611207/)
Master Scan - Blues (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9293611207/) by cpkey (http://www.flickr.com/people/compactkey/), on Flickr
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you, out of everyone, krog, should know that white is never quite white ;)
Too true -- needs a speck of blue usually. :)
measurement is the only way we're going to get absolute accuracy (relative to our measurement devices HAH). that's why i like that we have multiple samples incoming right now; your scans, dianoda's photos, and so on. basically, take the literal mean of all these "reasonably well calibrated" images in the same color space, and you'll get the least common denominator of what your keys will probably look like ;)
Agreed. Caveats all around! LOL
speaking of the wiki page, i think there's going to be some weird stuff happening wiki-wise shortly, but i also believe a migration path will be provided, so go ahead and add this content to that page (or add that content to this thread; either way is fine! :)))
Migration path? Ok, girding myself for impact. A hint, perhaps? A new wiki software is coming?
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ask rknize. i said my piece on this, but i'm too busy to do the engineering needed. he is trying to figure out how to centralize our information a bit better, that's all. MW doesn't seem to be doing the job *shrug*
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Just wanted to say excellent work guys.
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interestingly WFK seems the whitest white, I though it was WA.
anyway I don't seem to be able to calibrate those images in a satisfactory way, especially whites and grays.
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i think the way forward for right now (i am eyeing the i1 display pro damnit, but i'd need someone to buy my old display 2 off of me...) is to wait for dianoda's images, pull the RGB values off both images and take a weighted mean.
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interestingly WFK seems the whitest white, I though it was WA.
WFK also seems the whitest on my monitor, with WA having a very faint magenta tint. I don't have the chips with me at the moment -- how do they compare to the ones you have Matt (assuming you have them with you)?
anyway I don't seem to be able to calibrate those images in a satisfactory way, especially whites and grays.
How are you trying to calibrate?
I don't think you're working with the TIFFs. Let me see if I can share the files with you via dropbox -- would it help to have the full scans? I'm not entirely sure that flickr is displaying the TIFF, or downsizing it somehow.
EDIT: from the Flickr stream, you can access the really large images, but they're JPGs, not TIFF files. I'm not sure if that would matter to your calibration, Matt, but in either case, the WA and WFK appear the same.
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I'm referencing this link from the Raindrop GB -- looking around for other photos of chips to see how mine stack up:
http://www.keycapsdirect.com/images/Customized/ABSColors.jpg
The WCK (gah!) WFK chip looks very, very white as well.
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EDIT: from the Flickr stream, you can access the really large images, but they're JPGs, not TIFF files. I'm not sure if that would matter to your calibration, Matt, but in either case, the WA and WFK appear the same.
I didn't realize that Flickr would convert the images. I'll post the native files on my server for those that want to download them.
Edit: Feel free to put these URLs in the OP if you like.
Blues: http://l.mashby.com/Zs44
Brown-Whites: http://l.mashby.com/cjGz
Colors: http://l.mashby.com/n3LJ
Greys 1: http://l.mashby.com/hydi
Greys 2: http://l.mashby.com/sdsm
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EDIT: from the Flickr stream, you can access the really large images, but they're JPGs, not TIFF files. I'm not sure if that would matter to your calibration, Matt, but in either case, the WA and WFK appear the same.
I didn't realize that Flickr would convert the images. I'll post the native files on my server for those that want to download them.
We don't even know if that's an issue, though, Mashby. When I open the JPG and the TIFF file alongside each other, they look identical. But again, I'm not sure how Matt's trying to calibrate. I did look up some more GBs, and found that Raindrop and The Valentine sets both used the WCK (Gah! AGAIN!) WFK chip as the white chip, which would only seem to make sense if it was the whitest chip, right?
WFK = "What the F*** Krog!" LOL
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Better safe than sorry. I posted direct links to the .tiff files in my earlier post. ;D
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WFK also seems the whitest on my monitor, with WA having a very faint magenta tint. I don't have the chips with me at the moment -- how do they compare to the ones you have Matt (assuming you have them with you)?
I have a very limited number of chips around. Unfortunately I don't have WA.
How are you trying to calibrate?
Not easy since I don't have a white reference. I tried to use WFK as white reference, but it doesn't work. Basically it's a trial and error, comparing the colors to the ones I have. The scanner seems to have added quite a bit of "sepia" and colors seem a bit desaturated, but it is also true that color chips varies over time so the ones I have might not be the same exact colors that you have (even though they have the same code).
I'll make some other tests tomorrow and post the result
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When I got home I compared the WFK and the WA chips, and they look like the scans. The WA is very slightly warmer, and the WFK is the whitest.
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Can we get some different angles of the VAG? I enjoy looking at it.
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Can we get some different angles of the VAG? I enjoy looking at it.
:))
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I tried to apply the slightest calibration. This is the result:
http://lab.cubiq.org/kbcc/abs.php (http://lab.cubiq.org/kbcc/abs.php)
I also updated the Color Chooser:
http://lab.cubiq.org/kbcc/ (http://lab.cubiq.org/kbcc/)
I hand calibrated some of the colors, still not perfect but definitely better!
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matteo has access and can re-share the dropbox folder that dianoda and i set up for this. matteo: it's called 'geekhack photoshare' or something like that
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EDIT: from the Flickr stream, you can access the really large images, but they're JPGs, not TIFF files. I'm not sure if that would matter to your calibration, Matt, but in either case, the WA and WFK appear the same.
I didn't realize that Flickr would convert the images. I'll post the native files on my server for those that want to download them.
Edit: Feel free to put these URLs in the OP if you like.
Blues: http://l.mashby.com/Zs44
Brown-Whites: http://l.mashby.com/cjGz
Colors: http://l.mashby.com/n3LJ
Greys 1: http://l.mashby.com/hydi
Greys 2: http://l.mashby.com/sdsm
Added to the OP, thanks Mashby!
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it looks like i sent dianoda's abs ring to the wrong address :facepalm:
standby
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a-ha! he is retrieving it today
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I just ordered a PBT Color ring from SP and have it shipping to Krogenar.
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I just ordered a PBT Color ring from SP and have it shipping to Krogenar.
yahtzee!
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huzzah!!
i have something special in the mail by the way. POLYCARBONATE COLOR RING YAAAAA
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huzzah!!
i have something special in the mail by the way. POLYCARBONATE COLOR RING YAAAAA
WHOA! :o
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huzzah!!
i have something special in the mail by the way. POLYCARBONATE COLOR RING YAAAAA
(http://i.imgur.com/B0wld.gif)
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Mashby, I got the PBT ring just a few minutes ago. I think I'll scan them as I did the others, but maybe one row at a time, and every row (regardless of colors) will include the white and black chip in order to color correct? I'm hoping that would help Matt out.
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Mashby, I got the PBT ring just a few minutes ago. I think I'll scan them as I did the others, but maybe one row at a time, and every row (regardless of colors) will include the white and black chip in order to color correct? I'm hoping that would help Matt out.
That would be great! Thanks!
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Mashby, I got the PBT ring just a few minutes ago. I think I'll scan them as I did the others, but maybe one row at a time, and every row (regardless of colors) will include the white and black chip in order to color correct? I'm hoping that would help Matt out.
That would be great! Thanks!
No problem. I'm also going to try to use the white chip to offset the chips from the scanner edge -- so that the files won't be so oddly cropped this time around.
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Ok, these are not the full resolution scans. They're resized and saved as JPGs.
This first one is just to indicate my new method, which I hope will give us better scans, or at least scans that can be more easily color-corrected.
The top row includes the most apparently white chip and the black chip. This top row will remain the same for all subsequent scans. This will give Matt the white reference he needs.
Also, everything will be shifted away from the edge of the platen, so that none of the chips on the side are clipped.
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So if that works alright for you Matt, you can color correct those images, shoot them back to me, and then I'll crop them out. This time I'm going to try to crop them a bit nicer, with the full chip visible.
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So, I'm a bit late to the party, but I finally got my hands on the SP ABS color wheel from mkawa. I'm planning to start shooting these tomorrow night, and should be able to upload results either tomorrow night or possibly Friday depending on how things go (I'm planning to have this taken care before the weekend is out, as I will be out of town travelling for work for nearly a week beginning on Sun).
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So, I'm a bit late to the party, but I finally got my hands on the SP ABS color wheel from mkawa. I'm planning to start shooting these tomorrow night, and should be able to upload results either tomorrow night or possibly Friday depending on how things go (I'm planning to have this taken care before the weekend is out, as I will be out of town travelling for work for nearly a week beginning on Sun).
Looking forward to seeing them!
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So, I'm a bit late to the party, but I finally got my hands on the SP ABS color wheel from mkawa. I'm planning to start shooting these tomorrow night, and should be able to upload results either tomorrow night or possibly Friday depending on how things go (I'm planning to have this taken care before the weekend is out, as I will be out of town travelling for work for nearly a week beginning on Sun).
Looking forward to seeing them!
Well, something blew up at work yesterday and I ended up working until just past midnight... totally did not get around to taking photos. This evening, though, is a much safer bet.
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More PBT! We want mooooar! :D
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More PBT! We want mooooar! :D
I did the main scans last night, but lost a single chip (dark brown) in one of those cases where you drop something small on the floor, and would swear that mouselike, the item dashes under something, and is actively hiding from you. There should be a "FUUUUUU-" emoticon, but whatever. I've got four major scans, and each scan includes the white and black chip, for color calibration purposes. Also, as stated earlier, the tiles are not squared up against the edge of the scanning platen, so no chips will end up be overcropped.
So now what?
Matt, should we get these original scans (600dpi TIFF files) sent over to you to calibrate and modify the colors? Would you color correct and THEN send them back to me for cropping out of the individual tiles? How do you think we should proceed?
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Matt, should we get these original scans (600dpi TIFF files) sent over to you to calibrate and modify the colors? Would you color correct and THEN send them back to me for cropping out of the individual tiles? How do you think we should proceed?
sure, that works for me. I can help cropping them if you want.
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Matt, should we get these original scans (600dpi TIFF files) sent over to you to calibrate and modify the colors? Would you color correct and THEN send them back to me for cropping out of the individual tiles? How do you think we should proceed?
sure, that works for me. I can help cropping them if you want.
Ok, so... should I upload to Mashby as before? You can sure help me crop them if you want! That's the most tedious part of this, LOL. I'm working on making a selection window that cuts out the 'hole' in the chip, and has properly rounded corners. I will upload tonight in a few hours when I'm home.
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Mashby's place is fine if still available. Or shared dropbox.
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I am ready to receive. :))
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ok i've tossed everyone into the dropbox folder i set up for this. start populating go go go!
also, if anyone needs a copy of any adobe software to facilitate in this project, please let me know.
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ok i've tossed everyone into the dropbox folder i set up for this. start populating go go go!
also, if anyone needs a copy of any adobe software to facilitate in this project, please let me know.
I uploaded a .zip file of all the ABS .TIFF files to the folder.
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I uploaded the raw file for this jpeg to the dropbox folder (note to mobile/low bandwidth users - the link below is a direct link to a 14+MB jpeg):
http://i.minus.com/itkV5PFrQ4sjD.JPG (http://i.minus.com/itkV5PFrQ4sjD.JPG)
The photo was taken using the sRGB color space, and the jpeg has been color-corrected using the gray card in the photo. The light could definitely be more even (I don't own much in the way of large scale diffusers), and the exposure isn't quite perfect - so I'm planning to give this another go tomorrow morning to see if I can get the lighting straightened out.
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I uploaded the raw file for this jpeg to the dropbox folder (note to mobile/low bandwidth users - the link below is a direct link to a 14+MB jpeg):
http://i.minus.com/itkV5PFrQ4sjD.JPG (http://i.minus.com/itkV5PFrQ4sjD.JPG)
The photo was taken using the sRGB color space, and the jpeg has been color-corrected using the gray card in the photo. The light could definitely be more even (I don't own much in the way of large scale diffusers), and the exposure isn't quite perfect - so I'm planning to give this another go tomorrow morning to see if I can get the lighting straightened out.
... and he placed a white and black chip across a gray tile -- good idea!
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diffusing is much easier than creating good light. grab some tracing paper from the local art store (7$, 1.5x10^7 ft long roll -- i literally asked for the crappiest workable paper they had). cut out the sides of a large cardboard box (as usual i'm partial to USPS FRBs), cover open areas with tracing paper, power your flashes at the tracing paper panels. linkage: http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/07/how-to-diy-10-macro-photo-studio.html
i have like every part of this i need (ok, except for strobes, but i have some serious CFL lighting), i even have petg tubing to form the frame instead of cardboard, which i compulsively recycle since i go through so much of it... and i still haven't done this. sigh.
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All new PBT scans are uploaded to Mashby's account. Once they're color-corrected, if you send them back my way I'll crop out the individual tiles.
EDIT: Noticing on Dianoda's photos that the WA does not seem to have a magenta component at all. And yet when I look at my chip, I see it.
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Yeah, something fishy is going on with my reds - in the jpeg at least, they all look rather muddy.
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Yeah, something fishy is going on with my reds - in the jpeg at least, they all look rather muddy.
Or my chips could just be different, or my scans could be color-shifted.
EDIT: Mashby has my new scans for PBT chips.
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Okay, round 2. Having the color checker passport combined with better light means that this should be reasonably accurate as far as color response goes - here's a link to the white balance calibrated converted jpeg (sRGB, about 12MB):
http://i.minus.com/iLfDYbxVEUagX.jpg (http://i.minus.com/iLfDYbxVEUagX.jpg)
I'll upload the raw from this photo to dropbox, but ideally you'd need a copy of the x-rite color profile creator software to calibrate color response (I'm not sure if you can download it for free or not).
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An update:
- I zipped up the .TIFF files of the PBT scans and put them in the community DropBox.
- I also created a new set on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/sets/72157634820264764/), which converts everything into a JPEG, but will at least give an easy source from which people can browse, or link to.
- Last but not least, I also zipped up the .TIFF master files and put them on Droplr so that they can be downloaded by anyone. Links below
- ABS Color Ring (121MB) (http://l.mashby.com/dpwT (http://l.mashby.com/dpwT))
- PBT Color Ring (88MB) (http://l.mashby.com/Vl77 (http://l.mashby.com/Vl77))
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7431/9379664408_291a7b092e_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9379664408/)
Yellow & Reds Master Scan (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9379664408/) by cpkey (http://www.flickr.com/people/compactkey/), on Flickr
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2865/9376917367_0d247629f4_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9376917367/)
Greens Master Scan (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9376917367/) by cpkey (http://www.flickr.com/people/compactkey/), on Flickr
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2887/9379766892_c2ee359310_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9379766892/)
Grays Master Scan (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9379766892/) by cpkey (http://www.flickr.com/people/compactkey/), on Flickr
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7453/9379777856_953e8093ce_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9379777856/)
Blues Master Scan (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9379777856/) by cpkey (http://www.flickr.com/people/compactkey/), on Flickr
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you are a rockstar mashby!
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you are a rockstar mashby!
Isn't he, though? Matt, let me know how they came out in terms of color correcting.
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wow, excellent exposure control dianoda. also, i assume the colorchecker passport came with an i1 display pro. how do you like it?
i'm a little worried about the exposure the scanner chose on those PBT scans, mashby, but it could be an issue with the jpg conversion crushing the highlights.
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i'm a little worried about the exposure the scanner chose on those PBT scans, mashby, but it could be an issue with the jpg conversion crushing the highlights.
When I view the original TIFF files, they look very, very bright to me as well. :(
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So where are we? Matt, what did you think of the PBT scans? Should I start cropping out the tiles, or did you want to color tweak those images beforehand?
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sorry, couldn't work on it yet. The picture seems overexposed, anyway I'll work on it tomorrow.
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are WDG and WAN really the same?
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are WDG and WAN really the same?
I'll check them out tonight.
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are WDG and WAN really the same?
I'll check them out tonight.
The chips, sitting side-by-side on my desk look remarkably similar, yes. The WAN chip could be slightly darker. And when I say slightly I mean that it's nearly indistinguishable. If I flip them over (so that the code is not showing) and hold them a few inches apart, they're hard to distinguish. Here's a photo composite to illustrate. Should I crop out the original scans, or do you think you want to try to color correct?
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thanks for checking.
go ahead and crop :) I will probably color correct them slightly for RGB conversion, but it would be a quite subjective calibration.
The only picture I can safely calibrate is the one Dianoda took.
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The only picture I can safely calibrate is the one Dianoda took.
Well, then shouldn't we just use his scans? If his are more accurate, then let's go with his scans.
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The only picture I can safely calibrate is the one Dianoda took.
Well, then shouldn't we just use his scans? If his are more accurate, then let's go with his scans.
we don't have the full color ring though
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The only picture I can safely calibrate is the one Dianoda took.
Well, then shouldn't we just use his scans? If his are more accurate, then let's go with his scans.
we don't have the full color ring though
So, Dianoda hasn't photographed the rest of the PBT ring? Meh, I don't see the point in cropping out the chips if Dianoda's are going to represent the color more accurately. I guess we can wait until he's done.
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The only picture I can safely calibrate is the one Dianoda took.
Well, then shouldn't we just use his scans? If his are more accurate, then let's go with his scans.
we don't have the full color ring though
So, Dianoda hasn't photographed the rest of the PBT ring? Meh, I don't see the point in cropping out the chips if Dianoda's are going to represent the color more accurately. I guess we can wait until he's done.
I just have the ABS chips - no PBT. For the ABS, I still need to shoot the gray chips - I was planning to take and upload these tonight (I've been out of town for the past week, just got back on Sun evening). I'll probably reshoot the color chips at the same time as a comparison point to the last shoot - I'll be using the same lighting setup as before, just want to be sure that I am eliminating potential variables that I should be able to control (such as possible variations in metering and light output/color temperature of my strobes).
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i have to lend dianoda my pbt ring still. i might as well lend him the PC ring while i'm at it.
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I'm trying to figure out why the PBT scans seem so overexposed. Maybe it's because I used more chips for the ABS scans, and it cut down on the light? Same scanner, same settings -- why such a difference? :(
I think I'll rescan the ABS as well, just to get a second (third, with Dianoda's) set of values, and better scans for better crop-outs.
I wonder how the polycarb will look -- that's translucent, yes?
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it's trying to expose for middle gray, like any other exposure meter. so it takes a quick snapshot of reflectivity and computes an amount of light that will make the mean of the luminosities middle gray.
in short, scan the dark stuff separately from the light stuff.
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it's trying to expose for middle gray, like any other exposure meter. so it takes a quick snapshot of reflectivity and computes an amount of light that will make the mean of the luminosities middle gray.
in short, scan the dark stuff separately from the light stuff.
(YEEEEEEEEEEEEEARRRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!) (TIE fighter screeches over Krog's head)
:D
I put the tiles on the scanner bed! :D LOL
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Ok, finished the reshoot of the ABS color chips and did the gray ABS chips as well. Both images were shot using identical everything - same camera settings, same lighting setup from the same position, same post-processing steps, etc. Here are links to the color corrected JPEGs (each JPEG file is about 12MB, btw):
http://dianoda.minus.com/muyOgFJnwJ8hW (http://dianoda.minus.com/muyOgFJnwJ8hW)
The RAW files can be found on dropbox.
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Oh, mkawa, just noticed your post asking about the color checker passport/i1 display pro - I bought the color checker stand alone, so no i1 for for me. I use a spyder3 elite w/ argyllCMS+dispcalGUI for my screen calibrations, which I'm pretty happy with (the argyllCMS+dispcalGUI software is quite a bit more in depth than spyder's own software). The color checker passport is great for studio work.
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It would be great if someone can send Dianoda those missing chips... ^~^
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Oh, mkawa, just noticed your post asking about the color checker passport/i1 display pro - I bought the color checker stand alone, so no i1 for for me. I use a spyder3 elite w/ argyllCMS+dispcalGUI for my screen calibrations, which I'm pretty happy with (the argyllCMS+dispcalGUI software is quite a bit more in depth than spyder's own software). The color checker passport is great for studio work.
hah. i bought the i1 without the passport. i suspect if we combine forces, we could be _unstoppable_...
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Just FYI: Not sure how the scanning has progressed, but I've got a access to a ColorMunki spectrophotometer at work, if you wanted another set of calibrated samples.
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Just FYI: Not sure how the scanning has progressed, but I've got a access to a ColorMunki spectrophotometer at work, if you wanted another set of calibrated samples.
PM me with your address, and I'll send out the color chips (ABS) that Mashby sent to me a few months back. That work for everyone?
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Just FYI: Not sure how the scanning has progressed, but I've got a access to a ColorMunki spectrophotometer at work, if you wanted another set of calibrated samples.
PM me with your address, and I'll send out the color chips (ABS) that Mashby sent to me a few months back. That work for everyone?
Works for me.
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Just FYI: Not sure how the scanning has progressed, but I've got a access to a ColorMunki spectrophotometer at work, if you wanted another set of calibrated samples.
PM me with your address, and I'll send out the color chips (ABS) that Mashby sent to me a few months back. That work for everyone?
Works for me.
Package deployed.
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Got the package tonight, and borrowed the ColorMunki from work. The scanning is actually going pretty quickly... did about 60 (roughly half) of the PBT chips over a couple hours, and I think I've got the process down pat. Given the pace I'm going at, I should be able to get them all scanned over the weekend.
I'm sampling the chips from the smooth part... away from any texture or writing that might throw off the sample. I'll do each chip five times, and average out the data. The ColorMunki gives me raw data (samples of wavelengths from 380nm -> 730nm at 10nm intervals), as well as L*a*b* values. I should be able to calculate sRGB values without any trouble.
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Just gonna say I've been using these scans for the recent group buys, and thanks a lot for doing this.
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OK, I've scanned all the PBT chips... went pretty quick.
- Raw data: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0As-LCp55OSYodE5TX3ZBYm5QZ3lqQktrb1JBSmZMcXc&usp=sharing
- This is the raw data as pulled from the ColorMunki; LAB values, and samples at different wavelengths (380nm - 730nm, 10nm intervals).
- I sampled each chip approximately five times, and I've included averaged results in with the raw data.
- Processed sRGB data: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0As-LCp55OSYodEh4X0h1TnI3bS03Y295bDBmVnJpU3c&usp=sharing
- In this spreadsheet I convert the LAB values into sRGB, using the formulas from Bruce Lindbloom's website (http://www.brucelindbloom.com/index.html?Math.html).
- Used a D65 whitepoint (because that's the default for sRGB), and correct sRGB gamma companding.
- Feel free to double-check my work! I checked a few samples against the online calculator (http://www.brucelindbloom.com/index.html?Math.html), and was getting the same results.
- If there is demand for other whitepoints (e.g., D50) or other RGB spaces (e.g., Adobe RGB), let me know and I can try to figure out the math.
- Note that these colors will only be accurate if your monitor and/or graphics software is calibrated properly to display sRGB colors.
Of course, I've also added the colors to my online Keyboard Layout Editor (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/).
I'll move on to the ABS chips tomorrow.
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Kroengar, if you do own any IMSTO white / beige PBT sets at some point, it'd be great if you could compare them to the ABS and PBT whites and beiges/grays to find the closest matches. Mostly because IMSTO's sets only come in ANSI layouts, and I've been looking at KeycapsDirect for blank 1.5x, 1x caps and 7x spacebars. There are many off-whites that look *similar* but even with color scans, it's uncertain which is the closest. Would be best to have a color sample ring on hand to compare directly.
(For example, I ordered 4 1.5x modifiers in WFJ "white" PBT, and WFJ has been described as crisp clean white. Upon arrival, I can see that it's in fact quite a bit creamier / more yellow than white Vortex caps and more cream than pure white PBT used for ZOMG dyesub caps (I thought those were WFJ, as well as that's what Portal dye sub caps used)--perhaps SP sent me wrong caps, I don't know.
P.S.: Well, as I was writing this, I've realized that indeed, my supposed WFJ modifiers are not correct, next to WFJ ZOMG dye sub caps, so I've sent an e-mail to SP customer service :) )
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Kroengar, if you do own any IMSTO white / beige PBT sets at some point, it'd be great if you could compare them to the ABS and PBT whites and beiges/grays to find the closest matches. Mostly because IMSTO's sets only come in ANSI layouts, and I've been looking at KeycapsDirect for blank 1.5x, 1x caps and 7x spacebars. There are many off-whites that look *similar* but even with color scans, it's uncertain which is the closest. Would be best to have a color sample ring on hand to compare directly.
No, I don't own any IMSTO anything, unfortunately. Many people have pointed out that the color rings from SP do differ over time. I encounter the same sort of thing in my business, where I use dyed rolls of fabric. The color is slightly different between "dye lots" and so I've got to keep all my sewing work within the same roll to keep it all consistent. SP mixes their colors, so we'll never be able to make perfect matches. But if people can come reasonably close that's good enough for us.
(For example, I ordered 4 1.5x modifiers in WFJ "white" PBT, and WFJ has been described as crisp clean white. Upon arrival, I can see that it's in fact quite a bit creamier / more yellow than white Vortex caps and more cream than pure white PBT used for ZOMG dyesub caps (I thought those were WFJ, as well as that's what Portal dye sub caps used)--perhaps SP sent me wrong caps, I don't know.
P.S.: Well, as I was writing this, I've realized that indeed, my supposed WFJ modifiers are not correct, next to WFJ ZOMG dye sub caps, so I've sent an e-mail to SP customer service :) )
Yeah, so now you know from experience. :( Think of this, though -- if the GH community can provide good, color-corrected scans of the various chips and materials, then it's easier (and more likely) that vendors will specify (or be asked to specify) what color chips they're using. But also, from what I have heard, SP will custom mix colors. So maybe the vendor said, "gimme WFJ with a dash of yellow, please."? The colors I find most interesting on the color rings so far have been YCC (soft yellow), YCA (translucent yellow) and RCU (eraser salmon). I feel like no one has done much with them. There's also a bewildering array of grays, LOL!
A tremendous thanks to ijprest, who is exactly the right kind of scientist (it's color science people, that's not a joke), computer scientist and keyboard aficionado. When these scans get into emulators and prototyping software, etc. -- like ijprest's -- then all kinds of awesome will happen. I'm hoping kaporkle, or someone with his skills, will arrive and make accurate rendering of new keycap colorways easier and faster.
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Note that these colors will only be accurate if your monitor and/or graphics software is calibrated properly to display sRGB colors.
Of course, I've also added the colors to my online Keyboard Layout Editor (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/).
That's awesome work! Checked out the PBT color scans on your editor, and yes, you should definitely calibrate your monitor if it's possible.
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Note that these colors will only be accurate if your monitor and/or graphics software is calibrated properly to display sRGB colors.
Of course, I've also added the colors to my online Keyboard Layout Editor (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/).
That's awesome work! Checked out the PBT color scans on your editor, and yes, you should definitely calibrate your monitor if it's possible.
Yeah... color-management is hard.
My monitor has an sRGB-mode, which makes a big difference. I compared a few chips against the on-screen values, and they're reasonably close when I switch my monitor to sRGB... I chalk up the minor differences to my ****ty CFL lighting. There's a reason the pros use monitor hoods!
But while I've got the ColorMunki here, I might try my hand at creating an ICC profile for my monitor and see if it gets even better. :)
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Krogenar, you closet socialist: thank you for this link! I don't have to ask that many questions out here because every time I search for something somebody like you has already posted the answer. You rock!
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[attachimg=3]I had some scans uploaded at one point. I think they disappeared in the big file cleanse, and somehow I had deleted my copies as well =P So I scanned them again for fun... These are the ones I've got.
ABS
[attachimg=1]
PBT
[attachimg=2]
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Krogenar, you closet socialist: thank you for this link! I don't have to ask that many questions out here because every time I search for something somebody like you has already posted the answer. You rock!
You're welcome! Be sure to thank all the other people who did the majority of the heavy lifting. mkawa, Dianoda, ijprest, and more. I started the thread, and then things got very quickly over my head in terms of technical sophistication. :) Thank you bpiphany for the additional scans.
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I managed to scan all the ABS chips tonight... tomorrow night I'll double-check the data (e.g., make sure I typed the color-code correctly) and then post it online.
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OK, here's the ABS data (and links to the PBT data again, for good measure... though it hasn't changed).
- Raw data spreadsheet (ABS): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0As-LCp55OSYodDFiWDV4VkZhWWJ0R08yRFk5c25UZGc&usp=sharing
- Raw data spreadsheet (PBT): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0As-LCp55OSYodE5TX3ZBYm5QZ3lqQktrb1JBSmZMcXc&usp=sharing
- This is the raw data as pulled from the ColorMunki; LAB values, and samples at different wavelengths (380nm - 730nm, 10nm intervals).
- I sampled each chip approximately five times, and I've included averaged results in with the raw data.
- Processed sRGB data (ABS): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0As-LCp55OSYodFdTdnpoWG1iYXM4aE1EaUJQRnhSOEE&usp=sharing
- Processed sRGB data (PBT): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0As-LCp55OSYodEh4X0h1TnI3bS03Y295bDBmVnJpU3c&usp=sharing
- In this spreadsheet I convert the LAB values into sRGB, using the formulas from Bruce Lindbloom's website (http://www.brucelindbloom.com/index.html?Math.html).
- Used a D65 whitepoint (because that's the default for sRGB), and correct sRGB gamma companding.
- Feel free to double-check my work! I checked a few samples against the online calculator (http://www.brucelindbloom.com/index.html?Math.html), and was getting the same results.
- If there is demand for other whitepoints (e.g., D50) or other RGB spaces (e.g., Adobe RGB), let me know and I can try to figure out the math.
- Note that these colors will only be accurate if your monitor and/or graphics software is calibrated properly to display sRGB colors.
- Raw data .CXF (ABS): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8-LCp55OSYoZ29hNnpsQkNFc0E/edit?usp=sharing
- Raw data .CXF (PBT): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8-LCp55OSYoT0ZPVlJTTjl1S2c/edit?usp=sharing
- This is the "palette" file generated by the ColorMunki software.
- Included for completeness. It's probably not useful for most folks, but maybe your graphics software can read it.
- Note: This version has all the original samples, but doesn't include the averaged colors... this probably limits its usefulness further.
I've also added the colors to my online Keyboard Layout Editor (http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/).
Edit: I found & fixed a couple places where I had transposed a couple characters in the color-names, and one instance where I had mis-read an 'L' as a 'C'. Plus, I discovered that we have two VBQ chips. :)
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P.S., I'm not sure how accurate the YCA (glow-in-the-dark) samples are. It was glowing for a few seconds after each sample I took. :)
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Krogenar, you closet socialist: thank you for this link! I don't have to ask that many questions out here because every time I search for something somebody like you has already posted the answer. You rock!
You're welcome! Be sure to thank all the other people who did the majority of the heavy lifting. mkawa, Dianoda, ijprest, and more. I started the thread, and then things got very quickly over my head in terms of technical sophistication. :) Thank you bpiphany for the additional scans.
Roger that!
mkawa, you know I already love you (and your heart stickers) so of course, of course: many thanks!!
Dianoda, ijprest, et al.: big thanks to all of you as well. I haven't had a chance to interact with any of you yet, but I'm sure that will happen sooner or later.
And to all:
Thanks for being interested in the things that you're interested in and thanks for sharing the info! You guys all make me very glad I decided to join this forum. Feel that? That's good karma being sent your way!!
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Ok, I'm working on getting some of these scans cropped out so they can be used. I've figured out a way to crop them with rounded corners, so they look a bit more like the tiles. Now, if only I can figure out how to tag each one with some of this new data. Here's what some of the new cropped jpeg will look:
[attach=1]
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What sort of tagging were you considering? Something to allow for programmatic access?
Putting stuff into the image metadata is an option. The Exif metadata format supports lots of different bits of metadata (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms534416(v=vs.85).aspx), and PropertyTagExifMakerNote or PropertyTagExifUserComment fields can be used for just about anything, if none of the other fields make sense.
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What sort of tagging were you considering? Something to allow for programmatic access?
Putting stuff into the image metadata is an option. The Exif metadata format supports lots of different bits of metadata (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms534416(v=vs.85).aspx), and PropertyTagExifMakerNote or PropertyTagExifUserComment fields can be used for just about anything, if none of the other fields make sense.
Hrm... I hadn't actually thought about using IPTC or EXIF to put the data right into the file itself.
I was thinking something more like this:
[attachimg=1]
Putting that information in the metadata of the file would be awesome. I'm trying to think in terms of what would be most useful to someone designing a color scheme, or putting together a groupbuy. Ultimately, if someone could use this information to create better CG renderings, that would also be fantastic. I had also pictured a PS or Illustrator swatch that could be loaded while designing, so people could have a palette of ABS chip colors to choose from. Again, we can't mention the profiled monitor caveat often enough!
Your integration of the swatches into your colorscheme designer is looking awesome. How difficult would it be to have the swatches (the cropped photos) appear in the design window? I'll kludge something together to show you what I mean.
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I'm finally giving this thread some needed attention. OP updated.
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For the purposes of this discussion, we'll be using the "Straight Up House Tully" color scheme. *ahem* :rolleyes:
Here's the editor right now:
[attach=1]
Could we do something like this? When I hover over your palette, the tooltips indicate which color chips have been used. But after I select them, I really need to take notes -- if I don't recall what I used, I have to select a few until I find what I had used. It would be so useful if whatever colors I did select from a color chip gamut, showed up somehow. Please don't take this is as a harsh criticism at all -- I feel a bit like you managed to levitate the Statue of Liberty and now I'm asking you to do it a little bit higher, as I still cannot see entirely up her toga. Here's my kludged screenshot:
[attach=2]
What do you think? Possible? I would love to see more designers using the tool you made, and then being able to output some view that shows all the basic information, screenshot it, and then post it. Most of the GB's out there end up with a screenshot(s) on the OP that give people all the basic info on the color scheme -- if your tool could make that easier to output, that would be great.
Also, Santa, what about an online color chip "ring", that users could use to rifle through the chips, select some to "pull out" and then it would use the higher-res images? Also, I want a Red Ryder bb gun and I totally won't shoot my eye out.
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I feel a bit like you managed to levitate the Statue of Liberty and now I'm asking you to do it a little bit higher, as I still cannot see entirely up her toga.
Heh... that's some vivid imagery. :)
Something like this is certainly possible... it's a question of best presenting the data in the UI, and having a workflow that makes sense and is easy to use. (And fits in with the other features I have planned.) One consideration is that you could (theoretically) use different colors on each keycap... so presenting the information in a useful way becomes tricky.
A few ideas:
1. To solve the "I don't remember what color I picked" issue, I could just highlight the current color in the palette (sort of like matt3o's color-scheme picker (http://lab.cubiq.org/kbcc/) draws a thick border around the current selection).
2. I plan to implement (at some point) the concept of named keycap prototypes (https://github.com/ijprest/keyboard-layout-editor/issues/6) that specify various attributes. You could have a "alphas" prototype and a "mods" prototype (or whatever; system would be flexible), apply the prototypes to the correct keys, then *quickly* test color schemes, etc., just by changing the colors on the prototype caps. I'm not sure exactly what the UI will look like, yet, but I've been thinking about something like this mockup:
[attach=1]
... so another possibility would be to show the scanned chips beside each prototype in the list.
3. Another thing I plan to implement is the ability to add text- or image-based notes/decals (https://github.com/ijprest/keyboard-layout-editor/issues/37) to the layout...
-- Lots of uses for this... logos, depicting LED clusters, labelling "row number" information, etc.
-- This idea could be easily extended to allow "color swatch" decals.
-- This would be best (IMO) for taking screenshots to use in GB posts.
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OK, here's the ABS data (and links to the PBT data again, for good measure... though it hasn't changed).
P.S., There was no NN (black) chip on the chain, but I ordered a blank NN-colored key from SP and scanned it in... the spreadsheets and such that I linked above (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45743.msg1093720#msg1093720) have been updated.
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A few ideas:
1. To solve the "I don't remember what color I picked" issue, I could just highlight the current color in the palette (sort of like matt3o's color-scheme picker (http://lab.cubiq.org/kbcc/) draws a thick border around the current selection).
That would work -- this is really a great tool you've made.
2. I plan to implement (at some point) the concept of named keycap prototypes (https://github.com/ijprest/keyboard-layout-editor/issues/6) that specify various attributes. You could have a "alphas" prototype and a "mods" prototype (or whatever; system would be flexible), apply the prototypes to the correct keys, then *quickly* test color schemes, etc., just by changing the colors on the prototype caps. I'm not sure exactly what the UI will look like, yet, but I've been thinking about something like this mockup:
(Attachment)
... so another possibility would be to show the scanned chips beside each prototype in the list.
It sounds like CSS for keycap color schemes! (Inheritance, etc.) -- I think that's a great idea. Matteo's tool does this already -- alphas vs. mods, but over time I've realized that schemes also play with other color "models" -- alternating function row cluster colors, does the tab key get the mod color, or the alpha color? Being able to select/create a grouping of keys would be pretty awesome.
3. Another thing I plan to implement is the ability to add text- or image-based notes/decals (https://github.com/ijprest/keyboard-layout-editor/issues/37) to the layout...
-- Lots of uses for this... logos, depicting LED clusters, labelling "row number" information, etc.
-- This idea could be easily extended to allow "color swatch" decals.
-- This would be best (IMO) for taking screenshots to use in GB posts.
Do you think you could put together a way of creating an online (or software-based) color chip keyring?
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I don't remember if we already talked about this. But colors are not constant, they slightly change between batches. So what they today call VAT might be different from VAT a year from now.
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I don't remember if we already talked about this. But colors are not constant, they slightly change between batches. So what they today call VAT might be different from VAT a year from now.
Yes, that's been pointed out many times. Also, monitors have different temperatures, too -- so even if everything were perfectly calibrated, it wouldn't be 100% accurate. You could make the argument that SP shouldn't even sell color chips for the same reason -- they'll be different eventually from what you've get. And yet, people still buy the color rings.
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I mean that... just don't go paranoid about calibration a perfect rgb convertion because it won't last :)
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So... I imaged the SP PBT and polycarb rings this evening, RAW files can be found on the GH dropbox, here are the jpegs (sRGB colorspace):
http://min.us/muyOgFJnwJ8hW (http://min.us/muyOgFJnwJ8hW)
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The ColorMunki gives me raw data (samples of wavelengths from 380nm -> 730nm at 10nm intervals), as well as L*a*b* values. I should be able to calculate sRGB values without any trouble.
Oh, holy ****, this is awesome. Somehow I didn’t realize that these color chips had been measured with a spectrophotometer. Thanks so much. Yay data to play with.
Why is this in the “post wiki workshop” section?
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So... I imaged the SP PBT and polycarb rings this evening, RAW files can be found on the GH dropbox, here are the jpegs (sRGB colorspace):
http://min.us/muyOgFJnwJ8hW (http://min.us/muyOgFJnwJ8hW)
Thanks Dianoda! I need to get to work on cropping these things out. My hope was to crop out rounded sections, to match the actual chips, but it's ... well, very tedious. Anyway, thanks for the scans Dianoda!
The ColorMunki gives me raw data (samples of wavelengths from 380nm -> 730nm at 10nm intervals), as well as L*a*b* values. I should be able to calculate sRGB values without any trouble.
Oh, holy ****, this is awesome. Somehow I didn’t realize that these color chips had been measured with a spectrophotometer. Thanks so much. Yay data to play with.
Why is this in the “post wiki workshop” section?
Where should it be, if not here? The working plan has been that since the wiki code requires too great a learning curve, that all the information we compile would be in this forum, until a more long-term solution is found. Glad the scans helped you!
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Great work :thumb:
Any chance someone knows the PBT color used in darker Realforce keyboards (https://elitekeyboards.com/proddata/images/th/87UB_full1000_th620x400.jpg), and better if someone knows the ABS color equivalent (or closest).
(https://elitekeyboards.com/proddata/images/th/87UB_full1000_th620x400.jpg)
Cheers ;D