Author Topic: So many switches... so many colours...  (Read 20322 times)

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Offline CaptCarrot

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  • Posts: 87
So many switches... so many colours...
« on: Wed, 15 October 2008, 06:48:32 »
Dear all.  As you may have guesssed, I'm new here...


HI


Anyways, I have used Model M's and Dell keyboards in the past with absolutely no idea what the switches were until recently.  I did persuade my boss to let me keep my desk hogging pre-historic keyboard whilst the rest of the company had new Dell rubber dome boards.  And have to say the the old war horse was my best typing board ever.  It probably had ALPS sliders being a DELL, but as I no longer work there I will never find out.

I have been over to ClickyKeyboards and understand about buckling springs.  But I am still not to clued up on the ALPS sliders.  I have also looked up the DAS Keyboard, the Scorpius iOne (which i won't have as it is only US layout) and several options from unicomp and cherry.  Having frequented these forums I am now also looking at Happy Hacking, Switch Mac etc...

I have looked into getting a new clicky board for some time.  Over the last 5 years I have chopped and changed boards a few times, starting with a relatiely good Microsoft Office Keyboard (still have somewhere), to a Microsft Comfort Curve (gave away) to my current useage, a Saitek Eclipse.

I don't have £'s to throw away, so if I splash out I need to make the right choice.

I know all of you will have your own preference, and I see many of you rotate boards, but could you give me some advice on the different switches (Cherry MX/ML/FTSC / ALPS SLiders / Buckling Spring) and the many and varied colours (which I didn't know about until I came across these forums) and the differences between them.

Many thanks.

Offline itlnstln

  • Posts: 7048
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 15 October 2008, 08:42:51 »
I use a Model M at home and a Northgate Evolution at work.  I like both as they are both clicky.  The Northgate with its Alps switches is lighter than the Model M, and I like it for when I am doing a lot of typing.  I tend to have a light touch on the keyboard, and, sometimes, I do not press the keys on the Model M hard enought to activate the switches.  Other than the pressure needed, the tactility in the Alps and the Buckling Springs are similiar, so it is easy to switch back and forth with little adjustment. The Evolution is also a split-ergonomic layout adding to the comfort of long typing sessions.  I have not tried a Cherry board, so I do not know how they would compare.  I know several of the member who like buckling springs and Alps do not particularly care for the Cherry switches, but that certainly does not represent everyone on the board.


Offline megarat

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  • Location: Squirt Island, WA, USA
  • (Not My Real Name)
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So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 15 October 2008, 12:26:52 »
Quote from: CaptCarrot;9519


I know all of you will have your own preference, and I see many of you rotate boards, but could you give me some advice on the different switches (Cherry MX/ML/FTSC / ALPS SLiders / Buckling Spring) and the many and varied colours (which I didn't know about until I came across these forums) and the differences between them.



This brings to mind an idea ... my apologies if this has been discussed (or done) before.  Upon my first visit to this site, learning about the Cherry spectrum and the dozens of other types of switches one can find, I thought it would be useful to have a chart as a form of keyboard-switch reference.  That is, a single page listing the major types of switches, general characteristics, and models of keyboards that have them.

Thoughts?  (Or does something like this exist already and I haven't been able to find it?)

Home/Work:  Custom Filco FKBN87Z/EB and SGI 041-0136-001 chimera (original white ALPS, not simplified, rubber-dampened)
Gaming:  Wolfking Warrior with custom-colored layout, HHKB Lite 2 (Rubber dome)

Offline wellington1869

  • Posts: 2885
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 15 October 2008, 12:34:55 »
I've seen mentions on this forum of the existence of a "geekhack wiki", which apparently might have keyswitch models/descriptions. Dont know where that is though.

meanwhile, this might help a bit: http://www.ergocanada.com/ergo/keyboards/mechanical_vs_membrane_keyswitches.html

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline lowpoly

  • Posts: 1749
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 15 October 2008, 13:40:19 »
Quote
This brings to mind an idea ... my apologies if this has been discussed (or done) before. Upon my first visit to this site, learning about the Cherry spectrum and the dozens of other types of switches one can find, I thought it would be useful to have a chart as a form of keyboard-switch reference. That is, a single page listing the major types of switches, general characteristics, and models of keyboards that have them.

I thought about starting a switch reference in the Wiki but I guess somebody else has to do it. megarat? :)

Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline wellington1869

  • Posts: 2885
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 16 October 2008, 00:09:24 »
Can someone describe the Topre switch in the realforce keyboards? Ie, basically, in terms of *construction*, how are they different from cherries?  Do they involve a membrane AND a spring?

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline CaptCarrot

  • Thread Starter
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So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 16 October 2008, 12:59:21 »
If its any help to you (it isn't to me :(), they are llisted under capacatative on sandy55

Offline itlnstln

  • Posts: 7048
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 17 October 2008, 08:34:50 »
Quote from: wellington1869;9561
Can someone describe the Topre switch in the realforce keyboards? Ie, basically, in terms of *construction*, how are they different from cherries?  Do they involve a membrane AND a spring?


Someone had a picture/diagram on the board, but I forgot which thread.  Basically what it amounts to is a voltage change by reducing/increasing the capacitance through the interaction between the key, itself, and the PCB.  The spring simply pushes the key back up when you press it down and the rubber sleeve simply houses the spring and the keystem and may provide some tactility.

Here is non-English version of the diagram:

http://www.iqmore.idv.tw/pic/iqmore_Keyboard/iqmore_Keyboard01/big/iqmore_Keyboard01_big_11.gif

Edit - to actually answer you question:

The difference between the Topre switches and something like a Cherry or Alps switch is the Cherry and Alps are more simple switches that turn voltages on or off (where the Topre is a change in voltage based on capacitance).  The Cherry and Alps switches are self-contained and are wired to the PCB and the keycap/keystem sits on top.  You can actually use these 'boards without the keys.  In an old post, member Whiskey-In-The-Jar-O liked using naked Alps where he took the caps off an Alps 'board and just used the switches.  He felt it gave him a better feel.  See this Wikipedia article for further explanation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_technology.  It explains capacitive switches pretty well, but not necessarily mechanical switches like Cherry's.


Offline Ulysses31

  • Posts: 288
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 17 October 2008, 09:53:14 »
Interesting.  That wikipedia article references a "TVS Gold" mechanical keyboard (made in India) that is sold for about £21 O_O.  EDIT: Somewhere on-line I found it for £15.

Offline wellington1869

  • Posts: 2885
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 17 October 2008, 14:57:18 »
itinstin -thanks for the detailed reply, very helpful. I dont suppose you want to take a crack at describing the key feel in comparison to blue cherries? Tactile feedbacK: is there a bump or is it linear? soft landing? Auditory feedback: click, mild click, bottoming-out-thud, or silent?  Thanks!
(P.s., this is the kind of info that should be in the geekhack wiki, no? ;)

Ulysses31: I noticed the info on TVS keyboard too. Googled it, its apparently very popular among coders in India. Seems they use cherries but i dont know which kind. (A review described it as loud, so maybe blue cherries). I didnt see any reason to get one though over a das except for maybe a price advantage or for a neat "bilingual" model they have (in case any of you want to type in Hindi). On Google it looked like you could pick one up for maybe $45. But the m10 scorpius widely available here is only 5 bucks more than that.

product:
http://www.tvs-e.com/productpage.asp?prodname=tvs-gold-black-keyboard-usb.asp

a review:
http://www.techtree.com/India/Reviews/TVS_Gold_Black_Keyboard/551-51404-533.html

Price is listed as Rs.1300. At a 50-to-1 exchange ratio with dollars, that puts it around $26 (!) plus shipping (maybe $20?).

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline DMuk

  • Posts: 33
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 17 October 2008, 15:08:43 »

Offline itlnstln

  • Posts: 7048
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 17 October 2008, 20:55:59 »
Wellington:

I have never used a Cherry-switch-based kb, I only have experience with Buckling Springs and Alps.  The Alps are very tactile and feel like a slightly light buckling spring, and I highly recommend them.  You can see a detailed review in the keyboard reviews section for the Northgate Evolution and XsPhat has one for a Macally 'board with Alps knock-offs that he really likes.  The Alps are louder and higher pitched than the buckling springs.  Due to the construction of the Evolution (mostly steel and fairly hollow) there is a loud and resonant clack when the key bottoms out.  It is a great kb, as well as all Alps boards, despite the noise.  One day, when I care, I might try some sound damping.


Offline wellington1869

  • Posts: 2885
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 17 October 2008, 21:01:00 »
Quote
I have never used a Cherry-switch-based kb


hey itlntln -- thanks, I meant key feel of the topres though, but I've been reading up more about the topre's since then (on this forum and elsewhere). From what i understand the topre's are pretty much silent and linear in comparison to the cherries...

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline kyamei

  • Posts: 140
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 18 October 2008, 04:21:40 »
I've been curious about the feel of the Topres too.  Been trying to decide between a Filco with browns, Das III, or a Topre.  I really don't want to spend ~$100+ per keyboard just to test out the different switches, I'd rather just buy one end-all keyboard.  From the way things look here, everyone who owns a board with Topre switches loves it and some people love it so much they have more than one.  Should I just spend the extra $100 over the Filco and go with the Topre? (Realforce 101)

Sorry for the hijack, didn't want to make a new thread when there's so many "what keyboard should I get?" threads lately.
Topre:  Realforce 101, Realforce 87U, HHKB Pro 2
Cherry Brown:  Compaq MX11800
Cherry Blue:  Filco FKBN87MC/EB
Cherry Black:  K-202 numerical keypad
Alps Black:  AT101W, ABS M1
Alps White:  Focus FK-2001
Buckling Springs:  Model M 1391401, Lexmark Model M 82G2383, Model M2
Buckling Sleeves:  Unicomp Model M4
Futaba:  Sejin EAT-1010

Offline Korbin

  • Posts: 131
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 18 October 2008, 09:36:14 »
Quote from: kyamei;9593
I've been curious about the feel of the Topres too.  Been trying to decide between a Filco with browns, Das III, or a Topre.  I really don't want to spend ~$100+ per keyboard just to test out the different switches, I'd rather just buy one end-all keyboard.  From the way things look here, everyone who owns a board with Topre switches loves it and some people love it so much they have more than one.  Should I just spend the extra $100 over the Filco and go with the Topre? (Realforce 101)

Sorry for the hijack, didn't want to make a new thread when there's so many "what keyboard should I get?" threads lately.

I have all 3 and the topre is the smoothest, best sounding (they aren't loud at all but have this silent "thock" sound that I love), balanced (excellent feedback for a light switch) switch out of the 3 in my opinion.

The HHKB is incredibly efficient since you do everything without your fingers leaving the home row, but if that is out of you price range then the realforce will likely be a good compromise. As you can see, I think they are totally worth the money.
Keyboards: Nyquist, Ergodox, Levinson

Offline wellington1869

  • Posts: 2885
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 18 October 2008, 12:34:44 »
Whats the cheapest topre switch keyboard one can get? is it the HHKB? ("Cheap" is relative, I know ;)

Incidentally I had this wacky idea that geekhack should provide different keyboards for people to try out ;) since so many of us arrive at this site, like Kyamei, trying to decide once and for all which keyboard to spend a $100+ bucks on ;)

Maybe the way it could work is: iMav provides the different keyboards (maybe old ones he has lying around), representing the main kinds of different types of switches, which we "buy" from him to try out (we pay some amount, say $50 or whatever maybe even the actual cost of it), and then we try it out to our hearts content at our homes in person, and then we "return" it to him (for a refund, so long as its in the same working order so the next person can in turn "try" it out). ;)  iMav you could even charge 10 bucks for the service, I know I would happily pay that much for the chance to try out - in person - the topre and other switches like that ;) to be able to compare them directly and next to each other in my home.

Just a wild idea ;) Like kyamei I too am in the position where I'd love to try these out but have limited funds and time ;)

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline lowpoly

  • Posts: 1749
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 18 October 2008, 14:24:56 »
Quote from: kyamei;9593
I'd rather just buy one end-all keyboard.
Now that you're here, this isn't going to happen anymore. :)

Quote
geekhack should provide different keyboards for people to try out
There are several Geekhack Evaluation Centers around the world, you just have to visit them, haha.

The send-keyboards-around thing won't work, I think. What could work is: buy a couple of boards and saw them into single switch pieces. Then sell like 3 Cherry switches (blue, brown, black), 1 black and 1 white Alps for $10. Of course this is not like a full board but much better than nothing. Don't know if this will work with Topres or BS.

Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline wellington1869

  • Posts: 2885
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 18 October 2008, 14:49:06 »
Quote from: lowpoly;9599

There are several Geekhack Evaluation Centers around the world, you just have to visit them, haha.


haha! I'm serious!

Quote


The send-keyboards-around thing won't work, I think.


well, I'm sure imav wouldnt mind hauling packages to the post office every other day ;D hahaha!  But seriously, geekhack should open a keyboard store. you're the number  one online destination for keyboard geeks, arent you? ;)

Quote

What could work is: buy a couple of boards and saw them into single switch pieces. Then sell like 3 Cherry switches (blue, brown, black), 1 black and 1 white Alps for $10. Of course this is not like a full board but much better than nothing. Don't know if this will work with Topres or BS.


Thats really not a bad idea. Or maybe "any five switches for 10 bucks" so people can choose which ones they want to try. I would buy that. It would be enormously helpful to have the different switches in hand.

And it would be quite profitable for anyone willing to take apart an old keyboard -- 104 keys times $2 per key... ;)

I have my money ready if anyone wants to do this right now ;)

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline kyamei

  • Posts: 140
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 18 October 2008, 16:18:34 »
Quote from: Korbin;9594
I have all 3 and the topre is the smoothest, best sounding (they aren't loud at all but have this silent "thock" sound that I love), balanced (excellent feedback for a light switch) switch out of the 3 in my opinion.

The HHKB is incredibly efficient since you do everything without your fingers leaving the home row, but if that is out of you price range then the realforce will likely be a good compromise. As you can see, I think they are totally worth the money.


Thanks for the info, I think I'm just going to go for the Realforce 101.  I love how cute the HHKB looks, but it isn't very practical for me since I play a few games that use the F-keys quite a bit and I use the tenkey somewhat often.

Quote from: lowpoly;9599
Now that you're here, this isn't going to happen anymore. :)


Haha, you're probably right.  I know I'll end up buying em all anyways, but heres hoping.
Topre:  Realforce 101, Realforce 87U, HHKB Pro 2
Cherry Brown:  Compaq MX11800
Cherry Blue:  Filco FKBN87MC/EB
Cherry Black:  K-202 numerical keypad
Alps Black:  AT101W, ABS M1
Alps White:  Focus FK-2001
Buckling Springs:  Model M 1391401, Lexmark Model M 82G2383, Model M2
Buckling Sleeves:  Unicomp Model M4
Futaba:  Sejin EAT-1010

Offline CaptCarrot

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 87
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 18 October 2008, 16:54:03 »
Quote from: lowpoly;9599
The send-keyboards-around thing won't work, I think.


Probably not, but I know that the EDC (Every Day Carry) Forums have regular passarounds.

Offline itlnstln

  • Posts: 7048
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« Reply #20 on: Sat, 18 October 2008, 20:33:04 »
I have heard that Topre's feel closest to Cherry Browns, but since I have not used either, I couldn't be sure.


Offline sparayurji

  • Posts: 15
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 18 October 2008, 21:38:13 »
the tvs gold i'm using right know has blue switches, but i cannot assure that all the models have blues.
about the construction quality, it can be said that it matches a cherry branded model, more or less.
one disappointing (but maybe understandable) thing is that the base plate, where the switches are mounted, is a plastic one, but in the past it was metallic. i found an old model (tvs is very popular here in india) and although not working, the feel and the sound of the switches is definitely better, especially when you bottom out the keys, not an uneasy case due to the lightness of the blues.
anyway for a street price of 1200rs (more or less 18 euros, btw i'm italian), is still a decent choice. of course if you have to add the shipment fees things change a while.

Offline real_psyence

  • Posts: 7
just buy the switches
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 18 October 2008, 23:35:37 »
Hey everyone,
     Decided to post here first, rather than starting a new thread. I too have been contemplating different switches (keyboards), and decided to check my favorite electronics distributor. Sure enough, Digikey sells Cherry MX switches for around a dollar each, at least for the ones they have in stock.
    Currently they have in stock types 1, C and E, which are standard black (linear), soft tactile (maybe brown, the datasheet lists clear), and tactile click blue.

   So there you go! Rather than ordering an expensive keyboard to test out the switches, just buy a switch and a keycap (digikey has those too - or you could pull one off) and tap away. In fact, I may build up a little demo board to light a LED or something when the key is pressed...

Offline wellington1869

  • Posts: 2885
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #23 on: Sat, 18 October 2008, 23:43:32 »
real psyence, thats great - i'll see if they have alps too ;)

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline Chloe

  • Posts: 679
  • Switch Kitten
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #24 on: Sun, 19 October 2008, 07:07:04 »
Quote from: DMuk;9585
Ulysses31: is this the one:

http://www.spotonuk.com/usb-ps2-keyboards/toshiba/tvs-gold_79692/


I don't think they sell this anymore. I couldn't find it listed here:
http://www.spotonuk.com/usb-ps2-keyboards/

Offline Ulysses31

  • Posts: 288
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #25 on: Sun, 19 October 2008, 08:19:41 »
Quote from: real_psyence;9625
Hey everyone,
     Decided to post here first, rather than starting a new thread. I too have been contemplating different switches (keyboards), and decided to check my favorite electronics distributor. Sure enough, Digikey sells Cherry MX switches for around a dollar each, at least for the ones they have in stock.
    Currently they have in stock types 1, C and E, which are standard black (linear), soft tactile (maybe brown, the datasheet lists clear), and tactile click blue.

   So there you go! Rather than ordering an expensive keyboard to test out the switches, just buy a switch and a keycap (digikey has those too - or you could pull one off) and tap away. In fact, I may build up a little demo board to light a LED or something when the key is pressed...


I checked out their website.  They sell to a variety of countries including the UK (where I am).  The switches themselves are less than a dollar each, but the postage is around $20.  What a rip.

Offline DMuk

  • Posts: 33
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #26 on: Sun, 19 October 2008, 11:19:25 »
Quote from: Chloe;9633
I don't think they sell this anymore. I couldn't find it listed here:
http://www.spotonuk.com/usb-ps2-keyboards/


I'll give them a ring tomorrow. See if they want to prise off a keycap for me!

Offline wellington1869

  • Posts: 2885
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 19 October 2008, 11:59:10 »
Quote
I checked out their website. They sell to a variety of countries including the UK (where I am). The switches themselves are less than a dollar each, but the postage is around $20. What a rip.


I couldnt find any alps... so I think if someone wants to rip up some of their old keyboards, there are at least some of us who would happily pay $2/key ;)  Maybe we can have a bag of switches as the geekhack passaround. ;)

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline lowpoly

  • Posts: 1749
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« Reply #28 on: Sun, 19 October 2008, 13:12:33 »
Are Alps switches still being produced?

Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline real_psyence

  • Posts: 7
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #29 on: Sun, 19 October 2008, 14:16:48 »
Quote from: Ulysses31;9641
I checked out their website.  They sell to a variety of countries including the UK (where I am).  The switches themselves are less than a dollar each, but the postage is around $20.  What a rip.


Hey,
    I just checked the UK supplier I always got screwed with (as in, they'd have a part I needed, but only in the UK, I'm in the US, and had to pay crazy postage), Farnell, and sure enough they have the 1 C and E types:
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=500005+1000190&Ntk=gensearch_001&Ntt=mx1a&Ntx=

Cheers!

Offline real_psyence

  • Posts: 7
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #30 on: Sun, 19 October 2008, 14:30:22 »
Quote from: lowpoly;9651
Are Alps switches still being produced?


I found this article from 2004, which you've probably seen:
http://db.tidbits.com/article/7607

Basically it says that Matias found that ALPS was going to stop making the famed white sliders and he promised to buy a million or something, so they kept doing it. Dunno what the current status is. I'm trying to find a part # or more technical details on them to try and find them online.

Cheers!

Offline real_psyence

  • Posts: 7
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« Reply #31 on: Sun, 19 October 2008, 15:22:22 »
well, this is the closest I can find on the ALPS website:
http://www3.alps.com/WebObjects/catalog.woa/E/HTML/Switch/Tact/SKHJ/SKHJ_list.html

Looks close, but not quite right, and the force #s look way high to me... I'm giving up for the time being. Mouser has a number of alps switches, but most of them are SMD tactile switches with like zero travel, clearly not for nice keyboards.

Offline lowpoly

  • Posts: 1749
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #32 on: Sun, 19 October 2008, 15:28:00 »
Quote from: real_psyence;9660
I found this article from 2004, which you've probably seen:
http://db.tidbits.com/article/7607

Basically it says that Matias found that ALPS was going to stop making the famed white sliders and he promised to buy a million or something, so they kept doing it. Dunno what the current status is. I'm trying to find a part # or more technical details on them to try and find them online.

Cheers!

I've seen that one. IIRC Matias switched to Strongman or some other clone. So this deal might have never happened after all.

Quote from: real_psyence;9663
well, this is the closest I can find on the ALPS website:
http://www3.alps.com/WebObjects/catalog.woa/E/HTML/Switch/Tact/SKHJ/SKHJ_list.html

Looks close, but not quite right, and the force #s look way high to me... I'm giving up for the time being. Mouser has a number of alps switches, but most of them are SMD tactile switches with like zero travel, clearly not for nice keyboards.

They have 0.25mm travel, that's a different switch.

Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline real_psyence

  • Posts: 7
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« Reply #33 on: Sun, 19 October 2008, 17:09:49 »
True, I mean, that article was from 2004, so if anything it was probably for version 1. Would you be able to provide more info on the white ALPS? I don't have a keyboard with them, so I can't measure them. Things like travel, X Y dimensions, force...

 I'd like to try and find a source for either the originals, NOS if they aren't being made any more, or a compatible clone. I'll take a look at strongman.

Offline megarat

  • Posts: 202
  • Location: Squirt Island, WA, USA
  • (Not My Real Name)
    • http://www.megarat.com
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #34 on: Sun, 19 October 2008, 17:19:19 »
Quote from: lowpoly;9541
I thought about starting a switch reference in the Wiki but I guess somebody else has to do it. megarat? :)


Sure, I'll give it a try.  It'll be easy enough to get it going and help with the content and maintenance, but I know very little compared to others around here, so I may need to solicit the group for content.

Home/Work:  Custom Filco FKBN87Z/EB and SGI 041-0136-001 chimera (original white ALPS, not simplified, rubber-dampened)
Gaming:  Wolfking Warrior with custom-colored layout, HHKB Lite 2 (Rubber dome)

Offline lowpoly

  • Posts: 1749
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #35 on: Sun, 19 October 2008, 18:00:45 »
Quote from: real_psyence;9671
Would you be able to provide more info on the white ALPS?

Sorry, no. But travel should be in the 3-4mm range, so 0.25mm is something else.

Quote
Sure, I'll give it a try. It'll be easy enough to get it going and help with the content and maintenance, but I know very little compared to others around here, so I may need to solicit the group for content.

Great. I'll try to help but I'm already stuck with the keyboard reference, I really have to update that one...

Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline DMuk

  • Posts: 33
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« Reply #36 on: Mon, 20 October 2008, 03:52:37 »
Quote from: Chloe;9633
I don't think they sell this anymore. I couldn't find it listed here:
http://www.spotonuk.com/usb-ps2-keyboards/


I phoned these people up. Apparently this is just a test page. They don't sell it and have no plans to. I suggested removing the link. Getting people all excited over nothing. Should be a law against it.

Offline Chloe

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« Reply #37 on: Mon, 20 October 2008, 12:50:49 »
I started a switch reference, I hope you don't mind. :) Right now it's only a list of switches with keyboard models mentioned here. It might be useful to include links to pictures and datasheets of the switches.

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #38 on: Mon, 20 October 2008, 15:10:00 »
Quote from: Chloe;9704
I started a switch reference, I hope you don't mind. :) Right now it's only a list of switches with keyboard models mentioned here. It might be useful to include links to pictures and datasheets of the switches.


thanks for that chloe, I think its much needed. I'll include some links (datasheets, graphs, etc) as I come across them, too. This could work well as a cross reference with the existing keyboard list (thus showing which keyboards use which switches for folks who want to hunt on ebay)

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline CaptCarrot

  • Thread Starter
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« Reply #39 on: Tue, 21 October 2008, 05:54:50 »
Interesting, apparently Maxi Switch made sliders....  Vintage Gateway 2000 Keyboard Maxi Switch Sliders Nice (Item number: 290262999546)

Offline CaptCarrot

  • Thread Starter
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« Reply #40 on: Tue, 21 October 2008, 05:59:29 »
Quote from: Chloe;9704
I started a switch reference, I hope you don't mind. :) Right now it's only a list of switches with keyboard models mentioned here. It might be useful to include links to pictures and datasheets of the switches.


sandy55.fc2web.com/keboard (translated) maybe of some use to you.

Offline wellington1869

  • Posts: 2885
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« Reply #41 on: Sat, 25 October 2008, 21:26:29 »
Quote from: real_psyence;9625
Hey everyone,
Decided to post here first, rather than starting a new thread. I too have been contemplating different switches (keyboards), and decided to check my favorite electronics distributor. Sure enough, Digikey sells Cherry MX switches for around a dollar each, at least for the ones they have in stock.
Currently they have in stock types 1, C and E, which are standard black (linear), soft tactile (maybe brown, the datasheet lists clear), and tactile click blue.
 
So there you go! Rather than ordering an expensive keyboard to test out the switches, just buy a switch and a keycap (digikey has those too - or you could pull one off) and tap away. In fact, I may build up a little demo board to light a LED or something when the key is pressed...

So I bought one of each kind of switch from digikey. Came out to about 5 bucks shipping included. :) This is a very cheap way to try out the switches. :)
The part number table is here: (in the search box type in "cherry mx switch")
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Selection
 
Digikey's digital catalog has pics and more information: (Zoom in on bottom third of the page):
http://digi-key.dirxion.com/WebProject.asp?BookCode=dus08flx&SectionIndex=0&PageIndex=2010#

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline lowpoly

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« Reply #42 on: Sun, 26 October 2008, 15:52:44 »
Quote
So I bought one of each kind of switch from digikey.

Maybe post the part numbers? (Considering we have another thread wondering about which switches are the right ones).

Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline wellington1869

  • Posts: 2885
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« Reply #43 on: Sun, 26 October 2008, 16:31:45 »
Quote from: lowpoly;9895
Maybe post the part numbers? (Considering we have another thread wondering about which switches are the right ones).

sure, the digikey part numbers are:
(these are for pcb mount (ie, tabs visible/accessible):
black mx: ch160-nd (cherry part number MX1A-11NW)
blue mx: ch197-nd (cherry part number MX1A-E1NW)
brown mx: ch310-nd (cherry part number MX1A-C1NW) [Update: this is incorrect. See post #51]
 
They're about $1 each, with about $2 for USPS first class mail (there are a ton of shipping options). They also have the faceplate mount versions:
black: ch162-nd
blue: ch196-nd
brown: ch198-nd

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline lowpoly

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« Reply #44 on: Sun, 26 October 2008, 17:51:00 »
Thanks, I quoted that for the Wiki, I hope you don't mind.

Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #45 on: Sun, 26 October 2008, 18:04:43 »
Quote from: lowpoly;9912
Thanks, I quoted that for the Wiki, I hope you don't mind.
not at all, i'm a big believer in filling out the wiki :)

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline real_psyence

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« Reply #46 on: Sun, 26 October 2008, 23:17:33 »
wellington: awesome! Glad you found the digikey stuff helpful. They've been my go-to supplier for electronics for a couple years now. Service is absolutely first-rate and if you need something overnighted to you at 5pm eastern time, they're the place to call.

Too bad ALPS and Topre switches aren't available in the same market, would be nice to do a full round-up.

Offline xyzzy

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« Reply #47 on: Mon, 27 October 2008, 05:31:38 »
Quote from: real_psyence;9920
Too bad ALPS and Topre switches aren't available in the same market, would be nice to do a full round-up.

Alps switches apparently have been discontinued for a long time now, and Topre doesn't manufacture individual switches (the mechanism they use is a combination of springs kept together by a single rubber sheet, and the capacitive contacts) so it looks like you need to buy full keyboards to check how those keys feel. :(

IBM Model F62 (Ellipse's) • PFU HHKB Pro Type S Hybrid • PFU HHKB Pro • Leopold FC660C • IBM Model M SSK 1391472 • IBM Model M SSK UNI04C6 • IBM Model M 1391405 (x4) • Cherry MX 1800 Compact (blue Cherry) • Cherry MX 11900 Touchboard (brown Cherry) • Dell AT102W (black Alps) • Apple Extended Keyboard II (cream Alps) • Acer 6312-TA (black Acer) • Unikey KWD-601 (white Cherry)

Offline Bodibo

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« Reply #48 on: Mon, 27 October 2008, 07:42:29 »
Quote from: wellington1869;9898
sure, the digikey part numbers are:
(these are for pcb mount (ie, tabs visible/accessible):
black mx: ch160-nd (cherry part number MX1A-11NW)
blue mx: ch197-nd (cherry part number MX1A-E1NW)
brown mx: ch310-nd (cherry part number MX1A-C1NW)
 
They're about $1 each, with about $2 for USPS first class mail (there are a ton of shipping options). They also have the faceplate mount versions:
black: ch162-nd
blue: ch196-nd
brown: ch198-nd

Glad to see some clarification on this. I have been looking for some brown switches to place in my G80, but according to an old Cherry PDF the code for Cherry browns is MX1A-G1NW, which nobody in the UK sells. But if you say that MX1A-C1NW are Cherry browns, then I will go for them.

Edit: Just got my G80 this morning and I definitely don't like the Cherry black switches - stiffer than Cherry blues and no tactile feedback.

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #49 on: Mon, 27 October 2008, 20:05:48 »
well, I can confirm the above information for you soon as I receive my digikey package in a couple of days :) They just emailed that it shipped...

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #50 on: Thu, 30 October 2008, 11:37:34 »
Quote from: wellington1869;9960
well, I can confirm the above information for you soon as I receive my digikey package in a couple of days :) They just emailed that it shipped...

Ok, just got the package, and unless its a packaging error there is at least one thing wrong in my/our assumptions. Like others I assumed the descriptoin "soft tactile feel" for the ch310-nd referred to BROWN switches. It apparently does not, I received WHITE!  The other assumptions are correct: "Linear feel" (as described in the digikey catalog) did arrive as a BLACK, and "Click Tactile Feel" arrived as BLUE.
 
I wish they would just make the color part of the naming process...
 
So the corrected digikey part numbers are:
(these are for pcb mount (ie, tabs visible/accessible)
black mx: ch160-nd (cherry part number MX1A-11NW)
blue mx: ch197-nd (cherry part number MX1A-E1NW)
white, not brown mx: ch310-nd (cherry part number MX1A-C1NW)
 
[So maybe the browns ARE mx1a-G1nw, and apparently digikey does not carry them]
 

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline wellington1869

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yet another assessment of cherry colors...
« Reply #51 on: Thu, 30 October 2008, 11:58:00 »
Ok, with this digikey package I now have in my possession all of the below:
 
Cherry blue: just as others have described, a perennial favorite and its easy to see why. Fairly light touch with bump (resistance that 'gives way'), and a soft audible click. Click is much softer than buckling spring, though if you type fast, in combination with bottoming out the keys you could still raise a bit of a racket if you wanted to. Light touch, easy to bottom out. They seem as light as the browns, only with an audible click. [update: lighter than the browns, and with a soft click. I'm torn between these and the browns. I'll likely keep both boards in the house]
 
(Old style cherry white: clicky, tactile, barely distinguishable from blue, but there are some differences in the internals) [update: after typing with them somewhere I'd say they are just a little clickier and have a tiny bit more bump and resistance than the blues]
 
cherry brown: I became a fan of these for about a week. They are as everyone describes, bump, no audible click (tho a clack if you bottom out), fairly light touch. The browns are comfortable and fairly quiet for a cubicle. Easy to bottom out, which after a while (since I pound the keys) took its toll on my fingers. Kind of like "runner's knee", I was at risk of developing "typer's knuckle"! If you have a light touch you may like these a lot. [update: after some use of other boards I've returned to these as a favorite. I'm torn between these and the blues]
 
cherry black: no bump, no audio, fairly light touch. They are described as "linear" resistance but in actual practice I'd call them "progressive" resistance. Okay, I don't know why everyone dumps on these on this forum, other than that mechanical switch purists obviously have a clear bias in favor of audible clicks. The blacks suit my typing style quite well as far as I can see. The tactile bumps on the other cherry switches are hardly noticed anyway when you type fast, and the audible clacks only annoy the cubicle neighbors. In the blacks you have mechanical smoothness and springy fluidity, I rather like them, and they let me pound on the keys at will. If the browns are a quick run, the blacks are a refreshing swim. Smoooooooth. [update: after some use, I did wind up finding the resistance a little bit tiring. I went back to the browns]
 
("New" cherry white: bump, but no audio, like the browns -- but compared to browns then, I dont know if the bump is more pronounced, but the spring does seem stiffer, no question. On these I might actually tire out my fingers after a while. Especially my pinky. But it seems to me these were perhaps made for special keys like the spacebar where they sometimes install the stiffer springs, or maybe for specialized application in point-of-sale industrial keyboards. At least thats what I'd assume after using them!)
 
So my favorites right now are the blacks, with the browns a close second. I hope thats not sacrilege ;) [update: after using various cherry boards for a while: like nearly everyone else on these boards, my favorites are now browns and blues :) ]

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline Bodibo

  • Posts: 59
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« Reply #52 on: Thu, 30 October 2008, 12:43:14 »
So this was the PDF page I was referring to:



I think the Cherry browns are MX1A-G1.

I also think that digi-key do sell them, but they don't stock them and so the minimum order is 250 (http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=MX1AG1DW-ND)

This place also sells them in whatever quantity you want, if you can wait 8 weeks....

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #53 on: Thu, 30 October 2008, 12:47:45 »
Good to know, thanks bodibo

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline lowpoly

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« Reply #54 on: Mon, 03 November 2008, 10:55:00 »
Quote
They are described as "linear" resistance but in actual practice I'd call them "progressive" resistance.

Quoting myself:

Quote from: lowpoly;8581
The more you press a spring together the more force you need. But if you draw a way/force graph it will be perfectly linear (meaning longer way equals to higher force). Linear does not mean that you have to use the same force anywhere on the key's way down. That would be against the nature of spring physics.

Force = spring stiffness x way (spring stiffness is a constant, thus it's a linear dependency).

Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline dougy

  • Posts: 53
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« Reply #55 on: Mon, 17 November 2008, 06:24:26 »
What is a Cherry brown anyway? Was looking for switch specs and went to Cherry (http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/key/mx.htm). There is no brown keystem listed, or is the brown not an MX switch?

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #56 on: Mon, 17 November 2008, 07:35:58 »
You might want to look for the "tea" switch.  I believe that is the offcial color name.


Offline iMav

  • geekhack creator/founder
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« Reply #57 on: Mon, 17 November 2008, 09:21:57 »
The reason many people "dump" on the black cherries is because they are not tactile (that "bump" in other Cherry keyswitches is the tactile feedback that the key has been actuated).  Without tactile feedback, you are more likely to bottom out at full force, causing unnecessary trauma to your fingers/hands.

Offline bigpook

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« Reply #58 on: Mon, 17 November 2008, 09:58:53 »
Quote from: iMav;11459
The reason many people "dump" on the black cherries is because they are not tactile (that "bump" in other Cherry keyswitches is the tactile feedback that the key has been actuated).  Without tactile feedback, you are more likely to bottom out at full force, causing unnecessary trauma to your fingers/hands.


I am still adjusting to the cherry browns, the keys are very light to me and seem to actuate fairly close to the top. I need to control my fingers when I type on this board as it is very light. I find myself bottoming out very easily.
I suppose the cherry brown can be said to be tactile, though in now way does it compare to the BS or the topre.
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Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #59 on: Mon, 17 November 2008, 10:15:27 »
I sounds like the Cherry browns are a lot like the Alps blacks.  I can see where it would be hard to get used to at first as the amount of tactility is much less than their more clicky counterparts; even more so when transitioning from a Model M.


Offline dougy

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« Reply #60 on: Mon, 17 November 2008, 10:20:07 »
Quote from: itlnstln;11432
You might want to look for the "tea" switch.  I believe that is the offcial color name.
The colors listed on the Cherry website for the MX are: black, grey, clear, blue and green. The clear ones are "Momentary, single-pole, tactile feel, 2.3 oz., clear keystem", the grey ones "Momentary, single-pole, tactile feel, 2.8 oz., spacebar, grey 39 keystem" while the blues are "Momentary, single-pole, tactile feel, 2.1 oz., "click" differential movement, blue keystem". So which ones are considered the brown?

Offline Chloe

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« Reply #61 on: Mon, 17 November 2008, 10:28:30 »
The brown MX are not listed. The "clear" are white stem "soft tactile" based on the C in the part number.

Offline dougy

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« Reply #62 on: Mon, 17 November 2008, 10:34:30 »
Cute, I just got an email back from Cherry, the switch is MX1A-G1NW, not listed on their site at all. Google doesn't give any english language results except Cherry. Cherry's distributor stock says the part doesn't exist. arrrrrg. I'm looking for 22 of these things, anyone have any ideas?

Offline Chloe

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« Reply #63 on: Mon, 17 November 2008, 10:51:39 »
I was just going to email Cherry about this. Thanks for confirming the part number. You could get a Compaq MX 11800 quite cheap for the switches, although they will probably be broken in.

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #64 on: Mon, 17 November 2008, 10:55:20 »
I think harvesting parts from old keyboards has generally ended up being the easiest, cheapest, and least stressful solution offered when dealing with finding parts.  Trying to source new ones seems to end up in frustration, pain and suffering.


Offline dougy

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« Reply #65 on: Mon, 17 November 2008, 12:32:53 »
Quote from: itlnstln;11482
I think harvesting parts from old keyboards has generally ended up being the easiest, cheapest, and least stressful solution offered when dealing with finding parts.  Trying to source new ones seems to end up in frustration, pain and suffering.
Thanks, I'll try the harvest from old as the best bet. And there is a goofy looking Compaq MX 11800 on ebay just now. But, how do I know if it uses metal plate mounting, or pcb mounting?

Offline xyzzy

  • Posts: 155
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« Reply #66 on: Mon, 17 November 2008, 12:45:26 »
Quote from: dougy;11494
Thanks, I'll try the harvest from old as the best bet. And there is a goofy looking Compaq MX 11800 on ebay just now. But, how do I know if it uses metal plate mounting, or pcb mounting?


AFAIK, all Compaq MX 11800 and Cherry G80-11900 use PCB mounting, therefore the switches are easy to replace.

IBM Model F62 (Ellipse's) • PFU HHKB Pro Type S Hybrid • PFU HHKB Pro • Leopold FC660C • IBM Model M SSK 1391472 • IBM Model M SSK UNI04C6 • IBM Model M 1391405 (x4) • Cherry MX 1800 Compact (blue Cherry) • Cherry MX 11900 Touchboard (brown Cherry) • Dell AT102W (black Alps) • Apple Extended Keyboard II (cream Alps) • Acer 6312-TA (black Acer) • Unikey KWD-601 (white Cherry)

Offline dougy

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« Reply #67 on: Mon, 17 November 2008, 18:16:52 »
Quote from: xyzzy;11495
AFAIK, all Compaq MX 11800 and Cherry G80-11900 use PCB mounting, therefore the switches are easy to replace.
Great, I'll try and snag the one on ebay now.
Thanks all.

Offline Chloe

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« Reply #68 on: Tue, 18 November 2008, 11:29:48 »
Quote from: wellington1869;10043
("New" cherry white: bump, but no audio, like the browns -- but compared to browns then, I dont know if the bump is more pronounced, but the spring does seem stiffer, no question.

Are these the white MX you got from Digikey? I'm wondering how these might feel with springs from the browns. I want a more tactile version of the brown without a click.

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #69 on: Tue, 18 November 2008, 11:46:32 »
Quote from: Chloe;11684
Are these the white MX you got from Digikey? I'm wondering how these might feel with springs from the browns. I want a more tactile version of the brown without a click.


hey chloe, yes the ones I got from digikey are the "new" ones that are silent.  I've thought a lot about swapping springs and stems between cherries since of course I'm not entirely happy with any of the standard models (there's always room for tweaking :) )

I suppose you could try brown springs in these. I suppose the result would be a bigger bump and lighter resistance.

For my part I thought about linear (blacks) with springs between blacks (too stiff) and browns (too light). (So maybe with springs from the whites or blues). Some day I'll do that experiment too. ;)


Its easy to sample the switches, just order one of each from digikey. Its inexpensive and puts them in your hands so you can decide what combo you like before spending big bucks.

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline Chloe

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« Reply #70 on: Tue, 18 November 2008, 12:14:21 »
Thanks. :) I found some info on the springs which might be useful:
http://sandy55.fc2web.com/still_crazy/0401.html#0923%20%20Cherry%20MX%20Switch

Quote from: wellington1869
there's always room for tweaking


Absolutely.

Offline Chloe

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« Reply #71 on: Tue, 18 November 2008, 12:26:42 »
Quote from: wellington1869;11692
Its easy to sample the switches, just order one of each from digikey. Its inexpensive and puts them in your hands so you can decide what combo you like before spending big bucks.


How much was the shipping for you? I just found this on the UK site, I think this is excessive:

Quote from:
A shipping charge of £12.00 will be billed on all orders of less than £50.00.

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #72 on: Tue, 18 November 2008, 12:34:40 »
Quote from: Chloe;11701
How much was the shipping for you? I just found this on the UK site, I think this is excessive:


wow, thats excessive for shipping (thats about $24!!! just for shipping?). (also: digikey has a uk store?!).  
It might actually be cheaper for you to order from US digikey store and ship to UK.  For me, within continental US shipping price PLUS 4 keys came out to about $6. (Hence I said it was cheap to try them!). (Each key was about $1, so shipping on all four was about $2 total).

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline Chloe

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« Reply #73 on: Tue, 18 November 2008, 13:04:36 »
It looks like they have stores all over the world.

Quote from: wellington1869
It might actually be cheaper for you to order from US digikey store and ship to UK.


Shipping to the UK is even more from the US store. Farnell also have them but they're US stock so the shipping will be £15.95. :(

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #74 on: Tue, 18 November 2008, 13:54:34 »
Quote from: Chloe;11708
It looks like they have stores all over the world.



Shipping to the UK is even more from the US store. Farnell also have them but they're US stock so the shipping will be £15.95. :(



are you sure this is for single keys (and not for a roll of 1000 or something)?  It seems unecessarily excessive. My four keys came in a regular envelope with just 2 stamps on it.

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #75 on: Tue, 18 November 2008, 14:18:33 »
Quote from: wellington1869;11692
hey chloe, yes the ones I got from digikey are the "new" ones that are silent.  I've thought a lot about swapping springs and stems between cherries since of course I'm not entirely happy with any of the standard models (there's always room for tweaking :) )

I suppose you could try brown springs in these. I suppose the result would be a bigger bump and lighter resistance.

For my part I thought about linear (blacks) with springs between blacks (too stiff) and browns (too light). (So maybe with springs from the whites or blues). Some day I'll do that experiment too. ;)


Its easy to sample the switches, just order one of each from digikey. Its inexpensive and puts them in your hands so you can decide what combo you like before spending big bucks.


I don't think you can get a change in tactility just by switching out the springs themselves.  Changing out the springs would change how stiff or loose the switch is, but the stem controls the any bump or click.  Check out the switch secton:

http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_cherry_mx.htm


Offline Chloe

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« Reply #76 on: Tue, 18 November 2008, 14:20:25 »
They're 66p each ex-VAT. The £15.95 is because it's US stock.

Offline bhtooefr

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« Reply #77 on: Tue, 18 November 2008, 14:24:09 »
You'd probably come out ahead ordering them, having them shipped to a US address, and having someone ship them to you. :eek:

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #78 on: Tue, 18 November 2008, 16:34:57 »
Quote from: bhtooefr;11715
You'd probably come out ahead ordering them, having them shipped to a US address, and having someone ship them to you. :eek:


let me know if you want to do that chloe. It'll take an extra few days but I could put them in the mail for you from nyc.

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline Chloe

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« Reply #79 on: Wed, 19 November 2008, 14:48:45 »
Thanks wellington, it's kind of you to offer. :) I'm thinking of getting three of each switch (blue, black and white) so I can see how it feels to type. I need to check the springs link again, I'm not sure if it's worth getting grey and green to experiment with.

Offline wellington1869

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So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #80 on: Wed, 19 November 2008, 15:03:39 »
Quote from: Chloe;11778
Thanks wellington, it's kind of you to offer. :) I'm thinking of getting three of each switch (blue, black and white) so I can see how it feels to type. I need to check the springs link again, I'm not sure if it's worth getting grey and green to experiment with.


No prob. PM me whenever you're ready and we can go over the plan.

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline Chloe

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So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #81 on: Fri, 21 November 2008, 06:48:09 »
Quote from: dougy;11475
Cute, I just got an email back from Cherry, the switch is MX1A-G1NW, not listed on their site at all.

RS stock some "tactile feel" switches that aren't listed on the Cherry site either. The part number is MX1A-A1NN, they're white stem according to this datasheet:
http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0146/0900766b8014611b.pdf

The operating force is 80cN, same as their spacebar switches.

Offline wellington1869

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So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #82 on: Fri, 21 November 2008, 06:58:09 »
Quote from: Chloe;11992
RS stock some "tactile feel" switches that aren't listed on the Cherry site either. The part number is MX1A-A1NN. I've no idea what colour stem these are.



I dont understand why cherry doesnt make the stem color a part of the switch name. It would make life easier for everyone.

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline Chloe

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So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #83 on: Fri, 21 November 2008, 07:07:59 »
It might, but some switches have the same stem colour.

Offline Chloe

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So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #84 on: Sun, 23 November 2008, 09:02:03 »
X-keys sell brown MX, $9.95 for a pack of ten:
http://www.xkeys.com/access.php

They also have keycaps that fit:
http://www.xkeys.com/accessories/keycaps.php

Offline Chloe

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So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #85 on: Sun, 23 November 2008, 12:50:33 »

Offline djones

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So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #86 on: Sun, 23 November 2008, 14:50:33 »
Quote from: Chloe;12168
X-keys sell brown MX, $9.95 for a pack of ten:
http://www.xkeys.com/access.php

They also have keycaps that fit:
http://www.xkeys.com/accessories/keycaps.php

it's times like these that I wish I new something about electronics, so I could fix/build keyboards. unfortunately I majored in math during college, meaning I can't tell apart a transistor from a diode from a duck.

Offline wellington1869

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So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #87 on: Sun, 23 November 2008, 15:00:53 »
Quote from: djones;12188
it's times like these that I wish I new something about electronics, so I could fix/build keyboards. unfortunately I majored in math during college, meaning I can't tell apart a transistor from a diode from a duck.


ducks quack ;)

Its ok, I majored in EE but I've been in the humanities for the last decade and wouldnt trust myself with a circuit diagram anymore.  Its a pretty specialized skill if you want to mod the electronics themselves.

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline Chloe

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  • Switch Kitten
So many switches... so many colours...
« Reply #88 on: Sun, 23 November 2008, 15:01:08 »
If you're only replacing switches, you just need to learn how to solder. :)