Author Topic: Recommendation Needed (Read 12574 times)

Takitty · « **on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 01:46:12 »

Hello All

I've been reading this forum extensively since last night and decided to join up today. Last year my beloved LG Flatron keyboard died and I replaced it with a Logitech Ultra Flat. It's been a year and I've grown more and more uncomfortable using the logitech keyboard. After some googling last night, I think the reason behind this is because my LG was a mechanical keyboard whereas I don't THINK the Logitech is. Thus I have decided to purchase a new keyboard. I have identified a huge range which seem to be highly loved here. However, I was hoping if possible, that the well informed members of the forum will be able to identify the kind of switches my LG used and recommend me a product which would be similar in feel. One big problem is that I do not reside in the U.S. Finding some of these products in Australia could prove to be difficult. I'm still willing to give it a go. Unfortunately as a student, my budget is rather limited.

LG Keyboard: http://yuna.ws/pics/lg_keys.jpg

Your help and insight is greatly appreciated!

Chloe · « **Reply #1 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 01:52:14 »

It looks like there are + stems so they could be Cherry or MEI switches. Can you take a photo with a keycap removed? You can remove a keycap with a pair of paper clips.

skriefal · « **Reply #2 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 01:56:41 »

The Logitech uses scissor-switch keys. You'll find the same thing in modern laptop PCs.

Never heard of LG keyboards. Is it thin and flat like the Logitech? If so then it's probably a scissor-switch board, too, but we can't be sure unless you remove a keycap and post a photo of the actual switch mechanism. The model number may also reveal some information via a Google search.

skriefal · « **Reply #3 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 01:59:37 »

Good catch... I didn't notice the + shaped stems below the keycaps. Could also be Se-jin (Futaba) switches. (Who's MEI?)

Chloe · « **Reply #4 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 02:08:06 »

I have linear (white stem) MEI switches in my Datalux. I haven't been able to find any information about them. They might not even exist anymore, the Datalux was made in the early nineties.

Takitty · « **Reply #5 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 02:14:00 »

Right I have now just taken some more shots with the key cap off (noticed some numbers).

Internal: http://yuna.ws/pics/key_internal.jpg
Cap: http://yuna.ws/pics/keycap.jpg

This is the Logitech I have: http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/keyboards/keyboard/devices/177&cl=roeu,en

If it is really scissor-type then I must say they sure don't feel good after a year

Thanks so much for responding so promptly

Chloe · « **Reply #6 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 02:23:49 »

Thanks Takitty.

They look like Futaba switches:
http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/jiku.htm

How do they feel? Is there a small bump or click when pressed? Also, what is the model number of the keyboard?

Takitty · « **Reply #7 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 02:36:03 »

Wow that's amazing. I produced such an obscure image and you managed to find out what it was XD! Well the Futuba are not very noisy and sort make a clicking sound when hit. The model of the keyboard is SWK-1127F1. I really like it though, they sort of sound a bit like the sound conducted by the Blue Cherries. I had a listen / watch on youtube and I felt that they sounded nothing like the Brown ones.

bhtooefr · « **Reply #8 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 02:37:23 »

How do they feel when hit, though?

Chloe · « **Reply #9 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 02:42:16 »

I don't know for certain if they are Futaba. The stem looks the same, but the Futaba look like separate switch modules.

There's one on Yahoo Japan Auctions, you could use Crescent Shop to bid:
http://page10.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m61648681

iMav · « **Reply #10 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 02:44:46 »

Blue Cherry keyswitches would probably be a good starting point for you. The Scorpius M10 would be a good choice if you're on a budget...but I have no idea where they can be had in Australia.

Looks to be slim pickin's on Australia's eBay...but here is what I found that was noteworthy:

Model M
Cherry G80-11900

Takitty · « **Reply #11 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 02:46:16 »

Thanks guys

Honestly for me I wasn't even hoping to find the same one. Just something similar-ish. When you hit the key there is a bump but it feels much more springy and solid than the logitech.

Also I was hoping the replacement would be black as my current setup is COMPLETELY black in colour.

bhtooefr · « **Reply #12 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 02:49:22 »

Dan's Data recommends the Scorpius M10... and seeing as he's in Australia... you might read this article he did on the Das III.

http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/11/22/zwei-keyboarden/

lowpoly · « **Reply #13 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 06:42:42 »

Quote

Honestly for me I wasn't even hoping to find the same one. Just something similar-ish. When you hit the key there is a bump but it feels much more springy and solid than the logitech.

This and having seen the pics I'd vote rubber dome. Can you open the board? Also, sometimes just taking them apart and putting them together makes them work again.

bigpook · « **Reply #14 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 06:57:48 »

I found that link on the Scorpius M10
http://www.parkoz.com/zboard/view.php?id=my_album&no=51766

Maybe it was a bad batch that got through, but the soldering looks awful.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #15 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 07:01:11 »

Quote from: Takitty;12836

Thanks guys
Honestly for me I wasn't even hoping to find the same one. Just something similar-ish. When you hit the key there is a bump but it feels much more springy and solid than the logitech.

Also I was hoping the replacement would be black as my current setup is COMPLETELY black in colour.

for the record I too recommend the M10 wholeheartedly. I've had mine for about 8 days or so and I'm totally delighted with it. A real joy to type on and in my opinion better than the Das (for half the price). And yes its black (except for the section where the leds are, but really a black marker or paint marker would take care of that

zwmalone · « **Reply #16 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 07:12:35 »

Quote from: Chloe;12816

I have linear (white stem) MEI switches in my Datalux. I haven't been able to find any information about them. They might not even exist anymore, the Datalux was made in the early nineties.

They still make the Datalux, I have one. I don't know the manufacture date but they still sell them, so I assume they are still being manufactured...

Eclairz · « **Reply #17 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 07:13:43 »

You might also want to consider ALPs keyboards as they are also mechanical clicky types, not sure what keyboard.

From viewing your photos so far i am unsure if the keys themselves are full sized keys or thin keys like laptop keys. If they are thin keys you might also want to consider the Cherry G84-4100 which are thin mechanical keys, but not clicky as blue cherry keyboards but their saving grace is their extreme compactness and short laptop style travel.

Chloe · « **Reply #18 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 07:20:02 »

Quote from: zwmalone;12862

They still make the Datalux, I have one. I don't know the manufacture date but they still sell them, so I assume they are still being manufactured...

I meant the switches. I think they use Cherry ML switches now.

zwmalone · « **Reply #19 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 07:21:11 »

My new one (as of April '08) still uses MEI switches.

Chloe · « **Reply #20 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 07:38:22 »

I wonder if they're the same MEI switches. xsphat had one with ML switches but I don't know when it was made. The PCB date on my Microtype (desk model) is 6/92.

I took one apart today. The plastic casing is easily broken. There is no spring, but two little pieces of rubber holding the stem up, with conductive material that press against metal wire. The same wire is bent to form the PCB pins. I think the Cherry switches are better made but these might be really durable. I've just washed the PCB so we'll see...

zwmalone · « **Reply #21 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 08:35:21 »

Mine are the same MEI switches like that. The Desk model has MLs but the Tray model and the other flat model have MEI linear switches like that.

Takitty · « **Reply #22 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 10:01:59 »

Quote from: lowpoly;12852

This and having seen the pics I'd vote rubber dome. Can you open the board? Also, sometimes just taking them apart and putting them together makes them work again.

The keyboard is here but I think at some stage my parents tossed the receiver, they wanted to toss the keyboard too but I hid it in a cupboard XD;;...I couldn't bear to throw it out (and I guess that has been a wise decision). I think the M10 would be a goer for me except by the time I get one sent to me from wherever, it'll cost me 120-130AUD which is how much I'd pay for almost any OTHER board. I've come to terms with the fact that if I want a mechanical one now there is no way I can pay less than 90-130AUD. I noticed that Techbuy Australia ia selling a range of Cherry boards for just over 110AUD.

http://www.techbuy.com.au/search.asp?what=BeginSearch&srchFilterSubCat=&srchBy=&srchManuf=ALL&srchSortBy=2&page=1&srchQuery=cherry+keyboard&x=&y=

Some of these look okay. Except they have some many models it's sort of confusing. I also have a few things on watch in Ebay on suggestion from you guys.

My original keyboard was actually full-size. It was not laptop style.

Thanks again for all the interesting and helpful responses, I really appreciate everyones input

bhtooefr · « **Reply #23 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 10:08:18 »

Problem is, I don't think any of those have blue stem MX switches.

And, jeez, shipping to there is expensive...

Takitty · « **Reply #24 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 10:27:13 »

Quote

Problem is, I don't think any of those have blue stem MX switches.

And, jeez, shipping to there is expensive...

I agree about the expensive shipping. Everything is reasonably priced until I factor in shipping. I guess I'm still unsure about exactly what kind of feeling each different coloured switch gives but I'm just looking for one that doesn't have a very high level of resistance (so that I don't have to hit too hard)...and isn't TOO noisy (yes I'm aware the noise will always there XD). I was youtubing and some saw guy typing on a keyboard which was labelled to have reduced force alps inside...any idea on those?

bhtooefr · « **Reply #25 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 10:29:14 »

Tell you what, try to find a brick and mortar store with a Das Keyboard.

That has Cherry blues, so the same switches as the Scorpius M10. So, you can get an idea of what it'll feel like.

Chloe · « **Reply #26 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 18:38:50 »

Quote from: Takitty;12902

I noticed that Techbuy Australia ia selling a range of Cherry boards for just over 110AUD.

The G80 models they offer have linear black MX. You might find these are too stiff. The Raptor K1 also have these switches if you want to try them out in a shop.

G80 models with blue or brown MX are harder to find. These are generally described as click and soft tactile respectively and are lighter feeling.

The G84 range have short travel ML switches and the keys are also slightly smaller. I find the ML switches are a little stiffer but they actuate sooner and feel lively. I have a G84-4100 and love the compactness of it. It's great for travelling with; I can't bear to use rubber dome or laptop keys.

I prefer the feel and size of brown MX switches to MLs, and would recommend blue or brown if you can only get one board, unless you can get a G84-4100 or G84-4400 really cheap.

Takitty · « **Reply #27 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 19:42:38 »

Right now I am tossing in between:

1) http://www.techbuy.com.au/p/74184/KEYBOARD_ALL/Cherry/G81-1800LPMUS-2.asp

2) http://www.tech4u.com.au/product_info.php?products_id=70579

I'm watching an ebay auction for a G84-4400 (approx 90AUD shipped) at the same time and am not sure whether that one is a better choice? (compared to the above 2).

Ideally, I'd LOVE to roadtest ANY of these in a shop. But I can't seem to locate any shops that sell the Raptor K1, Gigabyte K8000 (this is a brand sold here but I can't find this model and I'm assuming even if I did, it'd cost MORE than ordering a Cherry or even Filco) or DAS

I've been relying on a lot of youtube videos of people typing. I did notice that the sound generated from typing on a Filco is more 'heavy' sounding even though they are meant to contain the brown switches?

Everyone has been nothing but helpful and I am bowled over by the continued responses. Thank you guys!!!

It's such a pain living in a country where there isn't enough people who type at speeds to care about the kind of keyboard they are using.

Chloe · « **Reply #28 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 20:06:43 »

The G81-1800 have MY switches, but they're not self-contained switches like the MX and ML range. I think they're stiff like black MX but I haven't tried them myself. Cherry also make this board with MX switches, the model number is G80-1800.

The G84-4400 have no Windows keys, and I think the layout is standard, whereas the G84-4100 have some keys in different places. The G84-4100 come with or without Windows keys. I have one with Windows keys and I find the bottom row too cramped with them. The one you posted doesn't have them (83 keys).

Chloe · « **Reply #29 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 20:24:12 »

I found some pictures to give you a better idea of the layouts:
http://blog.paran.com/blog/detail/postBoard.kth?pmcId=buglesscom&blogDataId=10148286

Takitty · « **Reply #30 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 20:27:00 »

Quote from: Chloe;12919

The G81-1800 have MY switches, but they're not self-contained switches like the MX and ML range. I think they're stiff like black MX but I haven't tried them myself. Cherry also make this board with MX switches, the model number is G80-1800.

The G84-4400 have no Windows keys, and I think the layout is standard, whereas the G84-4100 have some keys in different places. The G84-4100 come with or without Windows keys. I have one with Windows keys and I find the bottom row too cramped with them. The one you posted doesn't have them (83 keys).

By the sounds of this, I should be going for the 4400? (aka hope to win the auction). The ebay description said 'soft tactile'..so hopefully it's not hard to type on. As for the 4100, it looks very compact and like you said has some varied key placement. Do you feel like the 4100 is hard to type on? The G81 is G811800LPMUS2.

Chloe · « **Reply #31 on:** Sat, 29 November 2008, 20:46:08 »

The ML switches have a small tactile bump, it's more noticeable than in the brown MX. Linear switches have no bump at all so it's hard to tell when they have actuated.

I don't feel the G84-4100 is hard to type on. At times it has felt like a real joy. It took a little getting used to, like with any board I expect. With practice you can type without bottoming out which I think is one of the main advantages of mechanical switches. It feels wrong to me to have to press the key all the way down.

I'm more used to brown MX now, which are noticeably lighter. My fingers feel like they just float over these.

Eclairz · « **Reply #32 on:** Sun, 30 November 2008, 01:23:29 »

To be honest my preference are brown cherrys over G84 ML style keys but only because I like longer travel keys. But once i get used to typing on ML keys it still feels good. Me thinks any mechanical keyboard will do for you, since you found out how bad scissor switch keyboards can be.

I do believe to give a keyboard two months so you can get used to it though before impulse buying another keyboard. ML keyswitch keyboards are extremely compact so even if you do not prefer it you can chuck in a laptop bag for travel keyboard something you cant do with full sized keyboards.

Also one of the great things about mechanical keyboards is the smoothness throughout the stroke, they feel smooth compared to scissors and rubber domes, this is one of the addicting features of mechanical keyboards as it feels more clean and less dirty, so maybe do a blind test for feel, it may only be a small difference but then how many keys do you press a day.

bhtooefr · « **Reply #33 on:** Sun, 30 November 2008, 02:14:16 »

Quote from: Eclairz

I do believe to give a keyboard two months so you can get used to it though before impulse buying another keyboard.

Can we call failing to do that "pulling an xsphat?"

Takitty · « **Reply #34 on:** Sun, 30 November 2008, 06:24:48 »

Chloe & Eclairz: I hear you guys. I know that blue/brown cherry boards would be the best for me but I just have zero access to them. I was also thinking that going from non-mechanical to any mechanical board might feel really good anyway. It sounds like I'm making this really complicated and I'm sorry about that! It's just that I can only sort of splurge on one board (which will be over 100 anyway)..and even if I end up being unhappy with it in any way, that would be it for me. I'll keep everyone posted

zillidot · « **Reply #35 on:** Sun, 30 November 2008, 11:28:04 »

Oh it's another person from Australia. Hi

You've picked a bad time for buying keyboards (assuming you're paying in AUD)! The Aussie dollar dropped from over 100 yen to below 60 in the last few months...

It is quite frustrating not being able to try out these keyboards, but I took the plunge anyway, buying a Majestouch and a HHKB Pro2. They turned out to be well worth the money I paid (though I do prefer the HHKB over the Majestouch). Of course, they are both far better than any membrane keyboard I've used. I haven't used any keyboards with black MX or ML switches so unfortunately I can't comment on that...

Takitty · « **Reply #36 on:** Sun, 30 November 2008, 11:55:20 »

Quote from: zillidot;12958

Oh it's another person from Australia. Hi You've picked a bad time for buying keyboards (assuming you're paying in AUD)! The Aussie dollar dropped from over 100 yen to below 60 in the last few months...

It is quite frustrating not being able to try out these keyboards, but I took the plunge anyway, buying a Majestouch and a HHKB Pro2. They turned out to be well worth the money I paid (though I do prefer the HHKB over the Majestouch). Of course, they are both far better than any membrane keyboard I've used. I haven't used any keyboards with black MX or ML switches so unfortunately I can't comment on that...

Hello Zillidot

Yeah it's a terrible time. But truth is I don't think the AUD is going for a rebound any time soon so I think I might as well take the plunge. So far I'm sort of going with the G84-4400 from ebay. I'm sure the HHKB Pro and Majestouch are stellar but I probably can't obtain either of those for less than 150AUD+...even if I had ordered off amazonJP and gotten a friend to mail it, it would still end up closer to the 200AUD mark.

EDIT: Just noticed that DSI seems to do international shipping. Not sure how much it would accumulate to but noticed that they have a few boards on special. Any opinions on this? : http://www.notestation.com/fullsizealpsmechanicalswitchkeyboardask-6600.htm

Chloe · « **Reply #37 on:** Sun, 30 November 2008, 13:48:02 »

Quote from: Takitty;12946

It sounds like I'm making this really complicated and I'm sorry about that! It's just that I can only sort of splurge on one board (which will be over 100 anyway)..and even if I end up being unhappy with it in any way, that would be it for me.

It's hard to know what to get without trying things. I think there is only so much you can do before you have to try for yourself and take the risk that it might not be as you hoped.

Quote from: Takitty;12946

I was also thinking that going from non-mechanical to any mechanical board might feel really good anyway.

My first mechanical keyboard was the Datalux I mentioned earlier. It nearly put me off others because the linear switches felt awful. In comparison, I was really glad when I got the G84-4100. There were things about it that I felt disappointed with (I can be so fussy!), but I kept using it because it felt better to type on.

I don't have experience with ALPS so I don't know how they compare, but from what I've read here they are good switches. If you are used to full-sized keys the DSI you posted might be better.

Chloe · « **Reply #38 on:** Sun, 30 November 2008, 15:58:34 »

Quote from: Takitty;12963

So far I'm sort of going with the G84-4400 from ebay.

Is this new or used? I've had the G84-4100 for around two months from new. I've been typing on it again today and was just reading my early impressions of it.

Up until recently I did feel the switches were a bit too stiff but I think new switches take some time to break in. They don't feel too stiff now, although they still have the plastic friction sound. I think I've gotten more used to that.

Eclairz · « **Reply #39 on:** Sun, 30 November 2008, 17:21:59 »

Don't worry I just ordered two G84-4400 one 5year old white and one brand new black one. They don't appear on ebay often for the prices I bought them at and ML keyswitches once you get used to them are only a tad bit harder to push down than cherrys but it feels more tactile than cherrys so it has good points as well. I plan to get a shorter full size keyboard like the G80-1800 later and transplant my blue cherrys into them (took me around 2 hours to switch the compaq browns to my blue G80-3000 but I had a key puller which is now broke, so might take considerably longer now)

ecru · « **Reply #40 on:** Sun, 30 November 2008, 19:08:30 »

Another option to source mechanical boards in Australia - secondhand, charity or council dump shops. I have picked up a white alps ($2) and a white mx cherry ($1). Even if they didn't work well it would have been worth it for finding out what the switches felt like. Also it helped giving me the confidence to import a buckling spring board and a brown cherry mx board.

Takitty · « **Reply #41 on:** Mon, 01 December 2008, 05:18:51 »

Thanks for the replies guys. I think I'm veering a bit towards the DSI now because I discovered the various clips posted in the audio clips section of the forum. The sound files were really helpful and they made me realise that what I'm looking for may be closer to alps than cherry (I pulled mine out and had a bang on the keys to compare). I'm waiting on a response from DSI abou international shipping. The boards they have on their site looks good and even the Ebay PS2 one looks alright (Black + Silver in colour).

Chloe · « **Reply #42 on:** Mon, 01 December 2008, 09:17:38 »

I think the SMK-85 have black ALPS which are non-clicky.

Takitty · « **Reply #43 on:** Mon, 01 December 2008, 09:36:32 »

Right, watching Ebay again as we speak. I've worked out DSI shipping which turned out rather uneconomical

(almost 65 AUD for postage alone).

Anyone know anything about: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=110318703094 ?

I've got a friend in taiwan on the lookout for potential candidates that he may be able to purchase for me so I might be able to save on the ridiculous shipping.

Thanks Chloe again

Mergh..why are all the good ones so hard to obtain at a reasonable price. Even the refurbished SMK-85 off ebay would amount to 140AUD.

lowpoly · « **Reply #44 on:** Mon, 01 December 2008, 09:39:10 »

Macally ikey

Takitty · « **Reply #45 on:** Mon, 01 December 2008, 09:42:37 »

Thanks lowpoly! You guys reckon I can get this to work with my PC? Price-wise it looks extremely good and being on home turf it can't cost much to get to me.

EDIT: It's not mechanical is it...? -___-; *realisation hits like a ton of bricks.

lowpoly · « **Reply #46 on:** Mon, 01 December 2008, 09:46:18 »

It's a rubber dome. Are you sure you want that?

zillidot · « **Reply #47 on:** Mon, 01 December 2008, 16:00:49 »

Takitty: You might want to get your friend in Taiwan to look for one of these: http://www.thejaki.com/

News:

Author Topic: Recommendation Needed (Read 12574 times)