geekhack

geekhack Community => Input Devices => Topic started by: Lmnr on Mon, 07 November 2011, 18:11:58

Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Mon, 07 November 2011, 18:11:58
So although it's like 90$ I need some feedback from people that have them since I know it's supposedly just like a xai with allot of lights.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: flaming_june on Mon, 07 November 2011, 21:17:39
Depends on what you're looking for in a mouse.  But in all scenarios that price is never worth it.  If you have the money/budget for it, and you really have your heart set on it, then it's "worth it".

You'd want to find out about your hand style, swipe style, what you want in a sensor, your pad preference, button locations, and also dpi requirements, then you can narrow it down.  If you want a sensei like mouse but less money, there are tones of avg 9500 based mouse out there.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Mon, 07 November 2011, 21:39:44
Mostly due to gaming I have this on my wrist.
(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/7162/climsyclipboardr.jpg)
I also use a modified claw grip and with 500-800 dpi.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: RenoFox on Mon, 07 November 2011, 21:41:46
If you're unsure of what mouse you want I'd recommend the Razer Deathadder, It's got like one of the best rep's and it's only 2/3 the price of the sensei.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Mon, 07 November 2011, 21:47:12
Imho I always thought of razer products as the Alienware of computers.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: RenoFox on Mon, 07 November 2011, 22:06:38
Look around for reviews on the Deathadder, sure you might not think the most of their company but that 1 mice in particular is awesome.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: flaming_june on Mon, 07 November 2011, 22:17:34
Quote from: Lmnr;447760
Mostly due to gaming I have this on my wrist.
Show Image
(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/7162/climsyclipboardr.jpg)

I also use a modified claw grip and with 500-800 dpi.

Yup.  I have that too, on hard pad.  Thus Sensei and other 9500 based mouse aren't for you.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Mon, 07 November 2011, 22:23:13
Im using a sidewinder x3
http://www.tweaknews.net/reviews/microsoft_sidewinder_x3_gaming_mouse/img/1.JPG
But mostly I got it from using no mat but now I do and its wearing out a little bit.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: zareliman on Tue, 08 November 2011, 20:00:06
Sensei is a highly overpriced mouse with useless utilities. It also has tracking problems on white surface, aside from the well known avago 9500 negative acceleration on cloth pads.

If you like that sensor (or high dpi) I'd suggest the G500, by far one of the best mice I've ever tried.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Tue, 08 November 2011, 20:17:38
What about the xai cause the g500 is pretty much the same price.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: flaming_june on Tue, 08 November 2011, 23:20:30
Sensei is the xai, 1.5 with lights.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 09 November 2011, 00:13:04
If your going to use the extra features that the xai offers get it. If your not going to use the features its just a pretty Xai. I switched to track balls for a long time after my Ikari Laser died but The G700 has brought me back to mice as it is everything that I ever wanted in a mouse.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Greenbean on Wed, 09 November 2011, 00:32:21
I suggest a Razer Deathadder or the new Zowie AM that is about to be released. Both of these mice run very similar sensors. The Razer runs a modified version of the Avago 3090 and the AM uses the 3090 if I am correct.

The Razer has had proven results as one of the best sensors in the market, but suffers from a high LOD (Lift-Off Distance) and some complain about the build quality.

The Zowie has yet to be released, but theoretically, it should turn out to be one of the best, if not the best mouse on the market.

The Sensei is a gimmick. I once thought that the shell, lights, features, etc would justify the cost, but it also had sensor issues like acceleration. Then I thought to myself, "Why makes compromises with the mouse if I have to pay more?"

In my opinion grab yourself a Razer Deathadder Black Edition with an Artisan Hayate, and you'll be set.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: zareliman on Wed, 09 November 2011, 17:15:18
Quote from: Greenbean;448394
I suggest a Razer Deathadder or the new Zowie AM that is about to be released. Both of these mice run very similar sensors. The Razer runs a modified version of the Avago 3090 and the AM uses the 3090 if I am correct.

The Razer has had proven results as one of the best sensors in the market, but suffers from a high LOD (Lift-Off Distance) and some complain about the build quality.

The Zowie has yet to be released, but theoretically, it should turn out to be one of the best, if not the best mouse on the market.

The Sensei is a gimmick. I once thought that the shell, lights, features, etc would justify the cost, but it also had sensor issues like acceleration. Then I thought to myself, "Why makes compromises with the mouse if I have to pay more?"

In my opinion grab yourself a Razer Deathadder Black Edition with an Artisan Hayate, and you'll be set.


Simply not true.
Razer doesn't produce any mice with the Avago 3090, their led sensors are modifications of the 3050. The 3090 seems to be newer than their latest led based mice (I say led instead of what most people call "optical" since both laser and led are optical). All the available mice using that sensor have serious issues:
- Puretrak Valor: Poor construction, multiple firmware issues, etc...
- CMstorm Spawn: Firmware issues (jittering at some CPI settings, etc)
The Avago 3090 was promising on theory, but on the practice is a pain in the arse, mainly because it has incredibly high Lift-off-distance and to correct that you have to mess with lenses and firmware. Lets see how does the Zowie AM or the TTesports Saphire behave.

Besides that, both the Abyssus and DeathAdder have 0 accel. sensors, no prediction and pretty flawless tracking (better than laser mice on cloth). Shame that LED based sensors cap at 3500 CPI.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: iindigo on Wed, 09 November 2011, 18:03:02
Having used a Razer Deathadder in the past, I appreciate its quality of tracking but their its quality really does suck. It feels cheap, light, and poorly built - even a cheap $15 Logitech mouse provides a better feel. It's really underwhelming considering how much the Deathadder costs and for the same price range, I greatly prefer the solid, hefty feel of Logitech's G500.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Wed, 09 November 2011, 18:26:54
So does anyone know if the steelseries laser mouses still have acceleration? if so then I was thinking of the razer imperator, the g500 right now is a little too much.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: sinis on Wed, 09 November 2011, 18:30:43
From what I read the upcoming Zowie AM is very promising. The sensai was discussed as not worth it but people should buy a Zowie EC1 or EC2. I am not a mouse scientist though.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Wed, 09 November 2011, 18:39:08
Hmm but I just don't want to waste money on a mouse that has unturnable acceleration that makes gaming a pain. I've had the Ikari and it sucked due to the fact that when I twiched certain ways it would accelerate way too much but ill look into it. I've never heard of Zowie due to it being a mostly european company. It looks very simple....(thats a good thing :])

This is what I mean:
[video=youtube;P9O4h2OP1DI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9O4h2OP1DI[/video]
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Greenbean on Wed, 09 November 2011, 19:16:40
Quote from: zareliman;448808
Simply not true.
Razer doesn't produce any mice with the Avago 3090, their led sensors are modifications of the 3050.

I apologize for my mistake, as I don't quite remember the model numbers of mouse sensors. It was something amongst those lines...
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Wed, 09 November 2011, 22:26:20
So are they gonna create the Zowie Am with the ADNS-3090 sensor or even better?
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: DoctorSnoopy on Wed, 09 November 2011, 23:00:15
Weight of the mouse should also be considered and to the OP, Steelseries occasionally/often has 30-40% discounts on all products which drops the Sensei's price down a lot; mice and keyboards usually go OOS when this happens.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Wed, 09 November 2011, 23:19:17
I saw the recent blizz2k11 code and I was close to getting a 7g but I backed out idk why and when i saw that only the crappy mouses were left over I let it go.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lethal Squirrel on Wed, 09 November 2011, 23:40:22
I have a Steelseries Ikari laser, and I freakin love it. Is the perfect mouse for me. I say get the Sensei! you could even consider the Ikari Laser.
I agree with what you said about razer too btw.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Bullveyr on Thu, 10 November 2011, 02:20:38
Quote from: zareliman;448808
Simply not true.
Razer doesn't produce any mice with the Avago 3090, their led sensors are modifications of the 3050. The 3090 seems to be newer than their latest led based mice (I say led instead of what most people call "optical" since both laser and led are optical).

Simply not not true. :D

The S3888 in the DA 3500DPI and Abyssus is based on the A3090 (you could also say it's the other way around because the S3888 was used first), the A3090 is basically the publicaly available version.
The A3050 is a totally different sensor.

Quote from: Lmnr;448848
So does anyone know if the steelseries laser mouses still have acceleration? if so then I was thinking of the razer imperator, the g500 right now is a little too much.

The accel. problem is a general issue of the A9500, the Sensei isn't different in that way, same goes for the G500.
Maybe it will be at least lowered in the upcoming ADNS-9800.

I got a Sensei yesterday, haven't had time to compare it to the Xai yet (as a Xai User I wouldn't have spent money on the Sensei).

Personally the small pos. accel. of the Xai never bothered me.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: shogrran on Thu, 10 November 2011, 03:11:30
Hi, I just got mine today. And I agree with one other poster in this thread. If you really want it, the looks, features, lights then it is worth it.


I have a few comments on it and I hope I get to write a full review. Coming from a relatively simple mouse - the Razer Salmosa with relatively simple customization options and half the price I was kinda surprised.


Quote
1. The looks are definitely better. The smooth chrome finish is comfortable and easy to grip. The lights are fantastic the best looking bling lights I have ever seen on any computer peripheral to date. Its simplicity is a plus factor actually. But one thing they could have improved on is the chrome finish itself. Black or white is still the best colors imho. Its quite rare if you can find a build that fits well aesthetically with a sudden touch of chrome finish. My build is all black and though it doesn't look out of place, its the only chrome colored device I have connected to the pc. It looks good on its own that I can say.

Quote
2. Sidebuttons suck bigtime for me though. Maybe its because the mouse I previously used for almost four years doesn't have side buttons.  (im referring to the first version of the salmosa, not the new release which is a cheapo and smaller re-release) I'd say it was better if they had placed the side buttons a little offcentered from where you relax your thumb and ring finger because you can't help but accidentally press them! And they are so responsive that a minor movement of my thumb just accidentally presses them. Specially when you're using the on board menu, accidental press here and there.

Quote
3. I beg to disagree with their slogan saying its the most customizable mouse. I thought of a few things in my old razer that I can't seem to find yet in the s.s. engine. Like dynamically changing DPIwithout having to lift your mouse. You can only set it to two preset DPI per profile which you can switch with a button and if you wanted to adjust you have to lift the mouse up or use the engine. Considering the Sensei goes by its slogan - the world's most customizable mouse, you would expect that if it doesn't have close enough if not the same kind of feature, it has a substitute feature that works in the same way. The Razer has the on the fly sensitivity with on screen display even which I really like.

Quote
4. I wonder if its just because my mouse is new that the buttons are harder to press. Its crisp and tactile but I would definitely say it needs a bit more force to press than my salmosa or any other mouse I've used. Also in relation to this... the "pressing area" is quite small. I was expecting due to the shape of the mouse that it is going to be suited to my finger tip grip but I was wrong. Personally it would be best for palm grips. Because the area where you can actually press the two main buttons are just near the tip and gets harder as you move towards the middle of the mouse. Razer mice seem to have solved that and made a bigger responsive area.

Quote
5. Lastly, I have always wondered if looking at the underside of the mouse to use the onboard menu can ruin your eyes since the invisible laser might be shining straight into your eyes. I would have preferred on screen on the fly displays - the mouse has a processor and memory right? I hope a brilliant programmer can put this in a future update.

I have mentioned several comparisons with a Razer mouse but I am not saying that the Razer Salmosa is better overall. I am just pointing out a few good features of my old mouse that I really like and haven't found (or have not yet found the substitute) on the sensei.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: flaming_june on Thu, 10 November 2011, 04:32:20
Newer mouse don't mean they're better.  Many people are still had a hard time finding the right mouse to replace their 518 and DA before the 400 came out.

Quote from: Bullveyr;449137
Simply not not true. :D

The S3888 in the DA 3500DPI and Abyssus is based on the A3090 (you could also say it's the other way around because the S3888 was used first), the A3090 is basically the publicaly available version.
The A3050 is a totally different sensor.


The accel. problem is a general issue of the A9500, the Sensei isn't different in that way, same goes for the G500.
Maybe it will be at least lowered in the upcoming ADNS-9800.

I got a Sensei yesterday, haven't had time to compare it to the Xai yet (as a Xai User I wouldn't have spent money on the Sensei).

Personally the small pos. accel. of the Xai never bothered me.

Yup.

Also, I've previous had the xai.  I've only recently bought the sensei.

If you want to get rid of that rug burn on your wrist, do not get a lazer mouse based on the 9500.  You'd be much more comfortable with a talent and a g400.  Better performance at low dpi as well.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Thu, 10 November 2011, 06:05:15
Quote from: flaming_june;449149
Newer mouse don't mean they're better.  Many people are still had a hard time finding the right mouse to replace their 518 and DA before the 400 came out.



Yup.

Also, I've previous had the xai.  I've only recently bought the sensei.

If you want to get rid of that rug burn on your wrist, do not get a lazer mouse based on the 9500.  You'd be much more comfortable with a talent and a g400.  Better performance at low dpi as well.

I never said it was a bad thing :]
But from what ive heard I recently tried a optical mouse and the accuracy on them is terrible for fast accurate moves. I know for a fact that the kinzu and the xai have acceleration but ive never seen it on a sensei.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Brodie337 on Thu, 10 November 2011, 06:10:43
Not all optical mice are created equal...
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: iindigo on Thu, 10 November 2011, 08:46:39
Quote from: flaming_june;449149
Newer mouse don't mean they're better.  Many people are still had a hard time finding the right mouse to replace their 518 and DA before the 400 came out.

...

If you want to get rid of that rug burn on your wrist, do not get a lazer mouse based on the 9500.  You'd be much more comfortable with a talent and a g400.  Better performance at low dpi as well.

Would just like to warn that while the G400 might still be an alright buy, don't expect it to have the longevity of the MX518. MX518s already had problems with their cords breaking/cracking/shorting after a year or two of use, and that is likely to be worse with the G400 - Logitech cheaped out when building the entire device, and its cord is no exception, being thinner than that of its predecessors. I've also read that the G400 has lost a significant amount of weight compared to the MX518, so if weight matters to you, that's also worth taking into consideration before purchasing this mouse.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Thu, 10 November 2011, 09:31:32
So mx400 vs mx 518.. I mainly use my mouse on a Saitek Cyborg mousepad it's a hard surface yet my sidewinder x3 glides on it. Well im looking for smoothness of the mouse while use since I got a combo of 30$ for a sidewinder x6 and a sidewinder x8. Liked the keyboard but the mouse was terrible. I ended up going to a nearby microcenter and started to look for mouses.. ended up getting a steelseries ikari for a week then returned it due to its size and its acceleration. Then when I went back I got the x3 and its proved itself quite well since it's a basic mouse with decent gliding.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: flaming_june on Thu, 10 November 2011, 12:12:47
mx400 is lazer.  the g400 is the replacement for mx518.  You've already said that you game at low dpi.  No need to look at 9500 based lazer mouses.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: zareliman on Thu, 10 November 2011, 16:27:27
Quote from: Bullveyr;449137
Simply not not true. :D

The S3888 in the DA 3500DPI and Abyssus is based on the A3090 (you could also say it's the other way around because the S3888 was used first), the A3090 is basically the publicaly available version.
The A3050 is a totally different sensor.


The accel. problem is a general issue of the A9500, the Sensei isn't different in that way, same goes for the G500.
Maybe it will be at least lowered in the upcoming ADNS-9800.

I got a Sensei yesterday, haven't had time to compare it to the Xai yet (as a Xai User I wouldn't have spent money on the Sensei).

Personally the small pos. accel. of the Xai never bothered me.


I thought the S3888 was based on the A3050 since it appeared a long time before the A3090 and the DA and the Abyssus don't have firmware issues as the new 3090 based mice... Is the 3090 also an infrared led sensor ?
It's weird that the rest of the companies can't get that sensor working while razer has pretty nice working mice based on an older version.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Thu, 10 November 2011, 18:11:06
So what sensor did zowie say that the am was going to have?
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Greenbean on Thu, 10 November 2011, 19:49:17
Quote from: Bullveyr;449137
Simply not not true. :D

The S3888 in the DA 3500DPI and Abyssus is based on the A3090 (you could also say it's the other way around because the S3888 was used first), the A3090 is basically the publicaly available version.

Ah, thank you Bullveyr. I knew my years lurking on OCN couldn't have failed me. :D

To OP: I believe thr Zowie AM uses the Avago 3090. The sensor is theoretically almost perfect, let's see if Zowie screws up something on their part.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Thu, 10 November 2011, 19:50:56
Hmm ok estimated price would be like 60-90$?
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Bullveyr on Fri, 11 November 2011, 01:58:24
Quote from: zareliman;449544
I thought the S3888 was based on the A3050 since it appeared a long time before the A3090 and the DA and the Abyssus don't have firmware issues as the new 3090 based mice... Is the 3090 also an infrared led sensor ?
It's weird that the rest of the companies can't get that sensor working while razer has pretty nice working mice based on an older version.

It's not unusual that a sensor is exclusive to some manufacturer for some time and/or that there is a special version (special srom).
DA and Abyssus also so had some problems, jitter is solved (at least for the DA) but they still suffer from high LOD.
S3888 and A3090 most likely share the exact same hardware, it's just a different srom ("sensor software").

You can use the A3090 with an IR LED but it Relative Responsivity is highest with a red one

Quote from: Lmnr;449606
So what sensor did zowie say that the am was going to have?

A3090 with a custom lens. We'll have to see how that turns out, in general using a different lens is a tricky business.

Quote from: Lmnr;449666
Hmm ok estimated price would be like 60-90$?

MSRP is 60$
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Fri, 11 November 2011, 10:03:21
So since its coming out in the middle of december for people in the us. Anyone wanna make a review of it for the people that get it in the beginning of the month?
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: pruik6 on Fri, 11 November 2011, 16:03:31
Just get the razer salmosa EU edition best mouse ever without useless prick and its 15 dollar very cheap in my opinion
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: shogrran on Fri, 11 November 2011, 18:31:54
@pruik6 the razer salmosa EU edition - is that the newer version of the salmosa that's extremely small with the thin and overly long cable? The old salmosa is good but I doubt that one.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Fri, 11 November 2011, 19:29:16
So is the eu version just smaller and longer cable?
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Skylit on Sat, 12 November 2011, 01:16:14
Quote from: zareliman;449544
I thought the S3888 was based on the A3050 since it appeared a long time before the A3090 and the DA and the Abyssus don't have firmware issues as the new 3090 based mice... Is the 3090 also an infrared led sensor ?
It's weird that the rest of the companies can't get that sensor working while razer has pretty nice working mice based on an older version.

The 3090 was out almost an entire year prior to the 3050. If anything the S3888/S3668's architecture is more similar to the 3060/3080 than the 3050 which has a completely different and smaller pixel array. Both sensors are LED based, but Razer uses an IR light source instead of the traditional red LED.

Razer has their own proprietary firmware or SROM. Logitech/I-Rocks haven't had trouble squeezing performance out of the 3090(3095). Logitech has a custom lens tho.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: zareliman on Sat, 12 November 2011, 10:49:52
The Zowie AM advertises that the best way to reduce LOD and don't end up with messy firmwares is to use a custom lens (which is also a more difficult fix).

Quote from: Skylit;450426
The 3090 was out almost an entire year prior to the 3050. If anything the S3888/S3668's architecture is more similar to the 3060/3080 than the 3050 which has a completely different and smaller pixel array. Both sensors are LED based, but Razer uses an IR light source instead of the traditional red LED.

Razer has their own proprietary firmware or SROM. Logitech/I-Rocks haven't had trouble squeezing performance out of the 3090(3095). Logitech has a custom lens tho.


I was confusing the 3050 with the 3060, but that's what I actually tried to mean, the 3888 (DA 3.5G?) and the 3668 (Older DA 3G?) are not orthologues of the 3090.

I think you mean this I-rocks, http://www.i-rocks.com/Product_detail.aspx?CLASS_ID=1029&PRODUCT_ID=1246, How do you know they "squeezed out the performance" ? I haven't been able to find any opinions/reviews on the net (at least in a non-asian language).

What would be the Logitech mouse using the 3090 (or 3095 which I haven't heard of, but sounds like a custom SROM) ?
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: shogrran on Sat, 12 November 2011, 12:22:02
@All

I am still confused as to all these avago etcetc Axxx etc etc sensor stuff.

Can someone start explaining why an older sensor is better than a new sensor? Why would manufacturers of sensors make something that is less than the old sensors they are making. Why would mouse makers use a bad sensor for a new mouse?
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: shogrran on Sat, 12 November 2011, 12:48:55
@ripster

I am really getting confused and half pissed at some posts. I read some replies saying that some avago Axxx sensor on an old mouse is perfect and that its the best mouse blah blah. But then what made it different and better? I need answers to the same questions I asked earlier.

Why would manufacturers develop a newer sensor that sucks compared to the old one. I'm thinking it's like Intel creating i7 processors which perform less than a core2quad through and through. In my mind a manufacturer wont do that UNLESS they are developing off of a high end product and would like to market it to the non-enthusiast market like for example what they did to the Q6600, they developed several newer processors based on that but performed less so they can market it to mainstream. Even with that reasoning the architecture would still have an edge compared to the older version.

And it's not only on this thread. There are a lot of posts that I read from people who say bad things of a mouse BUT its obvious some of them haven't went out of their way to try a new mouse. e.g. someone saying the sensei is the same as the xai blah blah... (too obvious they havent even read the specs of the mouse).

When you say something sucks kindly explain why?
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Sat, 12 November 2011, 13:18:56
Quote from: shogrran;450583
@ripster

I am really getting confused and half pissed at some posts. I read some replies saying that some avago Axxx sensor on an old mouse is perfect and that its the best mouse blah blah. But then what made it different and better? I need answers to the same questions I asked earlier.

Why would manufacturers develop a newer sensor that sucks compared to the old one. I'm thinking it's like Intel creating i7 processors which perform less than a core2quad through and through. In my mind a manufacturer wont do that UNLESS they are developing off of a high end product and would like to market it to the non-enthusiast market like for example what they did to the Q6600, they developed several newer processors based on that but performed less so they can market it to mainstream. Even with that reasoning the architecture would still have an edge compared to the older version.

And it's not only on this thread. There are a lot of posts that I read from people who say bad things of a mouse BUT its obvious some of them haven't went out of their way to try a new mouse. e.g. someone saying the sensei is the same as the xai blah blah... (too obvious they havent even read the specs of the mouse).

When you say something sucks kindly explain why?
I completely agree.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: flaming_june on Sun, 13 November 2011, 03:30:45
Preferences I guess?

Why newer 9500 sucks compared to the old optical:
9500 isn't 1:1 tracking

So if you're okay with negative acceleration on cloth pad, and positive acceleration on hard pad, 9500 is for you.  Even if you decide to go for something like it, the sensei isn't "worth it" (other than the new lights and macro ability).

But then you still have to figure in how you hold your mouse, how heavy you like your mouse.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: shogrran on Sun, 13 November 2011, 04:27:10
Sorry not starting a flame war here but this is a serious question: kindly explain the negative acceleration on cloth pad and positive on hard pad. I doubt the effects of acceleration due to factors of a different sensor affects the tracking as much as the difference in friction on cloth v.s. hard pads.

Isn't the ratio a personal preference pretty much like setting your own sensitivity?
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: RamaBot on Sun, 13 November 2011, 08:31:12
I personally thing that the Sensei is worth it if it is what you want.
You are going to be using it all of the time so it is worth paying the extra for something that you are happy with.
And after all there are mice out there that are more expensive.
I do think that the lights are just a gimmick and that the extreme interpolated DPI is probably overkill.
But at the same time if you like that stuff then why not.
It's like buying the best car in the world and then paying to pimp it up.
I have the XAI and think it is the most fantastic mouse that I have ever owned.
If I had to replace my Xai the I would buy another Xai. Unless it was unavailable hen I would buy a Sensei.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Skylit on Sun, 13 November 2011, 10:30:49
Quote from: shogrran;450583
@ripster

I am really getting confused and half pissed at some posts. I read some replies saying that some avago Axxx sensor on an old mouse is perfect and that its the best mouse blah blah. But then what made it different and better? I need answers to the same questions I asked earlier.

Why would manufacturers develop a newer sensor that sucks compared to the old one. I'm thinking it's like Intel creating i7 processors which perform less than a core2quad through and through. In my mind a manufacturer wont do that UNLESS they are developing off of a high end product and would like to market it to the non-enthusiast market like for example what they did to the Q6600, they developed several newer processors based on that but performed less so they can market it to mainstream. Even with that reasoning the architecture would still have an edge compared to the older version.

And it's not only on this thread. There are a lot of posts that I read from people who say bad things of a mouse BUT its obvious some of them haven't went out of their way to try a new mouse. e.g. someone saying the sensei is the same as the xai blah blah... (too obvious they havent even read the specs of the mouse).

When you say something sucks kindly explain why?


Look at AMD and Bulldozer :D


I'll try to explain the best I can. (I'm pretty bad at explaining tho ;p)

Back in early 2003-2004 the first "gaming grade" mice were equipped with High Performance optical sensors. While Agilent (now Avago) only rated these sensors for 40 IPS (Inches per sec= Max tracking speed), both Logitech and Razer brought out proprietary and open source versions that were able to track well above the 40 IPS rating and thus improved over time. Anyway, Logitech somehow created the first unofficial laser sensor out of a proprietary version of the Agilent ADNS-2020 (Optical sensor). The following year (2005), Agilent creates proprietary laser sensors for both Logitech and Razer to use. The problem was that these sensors weren't any better than the last generation opticals and pretty much failed at tracking anywhere close to the speed of previous sensors put forth. In fact, the laser technology was so undeveloped that it had trouble tracking on a fair range of cloth pads at the time. The only benefit? a Higher CPI range. (1600>2000) It certainty didn't stop marketing tho. 2000 CPI + Laser branding pretty much made bank for both companies.

Anyway fast forward a couple years (2007), and another laser shows up. This one while much better than the last, is still inferior to the max tracking rates of certain optical gaming mice. Only benefit was an increase of CPI. (2000>3200) The marketing continued.

Couple years past again> (2009) Avago 9500 is released. This time the sensor is boasting a whooping 5040 CPI upon release (5700 Through a custom firmware) Although unlike the previous sensors, this one went through an evolutionary change. The architecture and design was improved. It was able to run at frame rates twice that of their own opticals. It had a factory rating of "up to 150 IPS".  Everything about it pretty much looked amazing on paper. Sadly, it was not without problems as there were gamers that got annoyed by the sensors tracking inconsistency.

-Sensor produces around a 5%~ positive acceleration flaw based on the rate of speed in which you move your cursor. While a lot of people don't have a problem with it, it can be annoying to those that are used to 1:1 response on the lower sensitivities.
-The sensor would hit negative acceleration and would malfunction on most cloth pads fairly early.  (I'm happy to report that this isn't the case with the Sensei and it seems to be "fixed").


tl;dr The 9500 is indeed an improvement, just not for a gamer (yet.)
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Sun, 13 November 2011, 13:21:04
Quote from: flaming_june;451034
Preferences I guess?

Why newer 9500 sucks compared to the old optical:
9500 isn't 1:1 tracking

So if you're okay with negative acceleration on cloth pad, and positive acceleration on hard pad, 9500 is for you.  Even if you decide to go for something like it, the sensei isn't "worth it" (other than the new lights and macro ability).

But then you still have to figure in how you hold your mouse, how heavy you like your mouse.
well its not the way I hold my mouse but its response to my movement. Currently im using the fingertip grip. Ive gone through all the hand grip styles and found the fingertip grip to be the most responsive but the most tiring. It creates a somewhat accurate response even for this sidewinder x3 but I was looking for something that was even more accurate cause even with this mouse it tends to get some acceleration due to my mousepad being a hard smooth surface.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Sun, 13 November 2011, 13:25:17
Quote from: Skylit;451128
Look at AMD and Bulldozer :D


I'll try to explain the best I can. (I'm pretty bad at explaining tho ;p)

Back in early 2003-2004 the first "gaming grade" mice were equipped with High Performance optical sensors. While Agilent (now Avago) only rated these sensors for 40 IPS (Inches per sec= Max tracking speed), both Logitech and Razer brought out proprietary and open source versions that were able to track well above the 40 IPS rating and thus improved over time. Anyway, Logitech somehow created the first unofficial laser sensor out of a proprietary version of the Agilent ADNS-2020 (Optical sensor). The following year (2005), Agilent creates proprietary laser sensors for both Logitech and Razer to use. The problem was that these sensors weren't any better than the last generation opticals and pretty much failed at tracking anywhere close to the speed of previous sensors put forth. In fact, the laser technology was so undeveloped that it had trouble tracking on a fair range of cloth pads at the time. The only benefit? a Higher CPI range. (1600>2000) It certainty didn't stop marketing tho. 2000 CPI + Laser branding pretty much made bank for both companies.

Anyway fast forward a couple years (2007), and another laser shows up. This one while much better than the last, is still inferior to the max tracking rates of certain optical gaming mice. Only benefit was an increase of CPI. (2000>3200) The marketing continued.

Couple years past again> (2009) Avago 9500 is released. This time the sensor is boasting a whooping 5040 CPI upon release (5700 Through a custom firmware) Although unlike the previous sensors, this one went through an evolutionary change. The architecture and design was improved. It was able to run at frame rates twice that of their own opticals. It had a factory rating of "up to 150 IPS".  Everything about it pretty much looked amazing on paper. Sadly, it was not without problems as there were gamers that got annoyed by the sensors tracking inconsistency.

-Sensor produces around a 5%~ positive acceleration flaw based on the rate of speed in which you move your cursor. While a lot of people don't have a problem with it, it can be annoying to those that are used to 1:1 response on the lower sensitivities.
-The sensor would hit negative acceleration and would malfunction on most cloth pads fairly early.  (I'm happy to report that this isn't the case with the Sensei and it seems to be "fixed").


tl;dr The 9500 is indeed an improvement, just not for a gamer (yet.)
For games like quake where quick accurate movements matter that 5% means a lot so yes. So the sensei now doesnt have this negative acceleration but it has 5% acceleration?
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: shogrran on Sun, 13 November 2011, 14:16:50
@Skylit

Thank you for enlightening us kind sir!  

I still stand by my Sensei and Salmosa though. I know I sound like a 12 year old ranting but I'm actually old. So I have used optical mice in the past(although they were the beginning of the optical mice - no fancy brands yet) and optical mice now in the present. The Salmosa (someone please tell me what sensor it uses) and the Sensei are the two best mice I have ever used.

I personally believe that any negative or positive acceleration or any change in mouse surface (not unless your mouse cannot detect the surface) is just a matter of adjusting to your mouse though. As long as the sensor detects the surface and does not "skip-skip" as if it was using glass as a mouse pad. Nowadays mice can even detect glass.. compare that from the time a shiny desktop or a few mouse pads won't even work with your optical mouse.

On a more specific note and in relation to the topic... I have never seen a mouse with exactaccel and exactaim before.(enlighten me if there were mice using these features before) And I think these two features are a major breakthrough. My counterstrike aiming abilities improved.. to think I haven't played counterstrike in like three years!
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: flaming_june on Sun, 13 November 2011, 16:08:04
For low sens gaming it does matter.  I'm on around 600-900 in SC2 and CSS and I've since changed to around 1500 b/c too low is just unplayable personally.  The sensei (from reviews) does still suffers from negative acceleration on some cloth pads.  Hence what skylit said the sensor being inconsistent.  Sometimes it's more, sometimes it's less.  At low sen, on my hard pad these issue is still detectable.  My main game is a third person MMO that requires around 3500 dpi so the sensei isn't too bad for my application.  One of the other issue for me is it's weight.  If you game in low sens you need to constantly lift off.  The spawn was the perfect weight for this kind of movement.  One of the other issue with the sensei is that if you do a lot of lift off and drop the mouse a bit heavy, the mouse button would depress sometimes.

Once again though, I think you got other choices with better value than the xai.  On the top of my head the kone+ is a good one (but the four way scroll isn't).  

Quote from: Lmnr;451209
well its not the way I hold my mouse but its response to my movement. Currently im using the fingertip grip. Ive gone through all the hand grip styles and found the fingertip grip to be the most responsive but the most tiring. It creates a somewhat accurate response even for this sidewinder x3 but I was looking for something that was even more accurate cause even with this mouse it tends to get some acceleration due to my mousepad being a hard smooth surface.

I hold my sensei the same and it does get tiring.  The most comfortable mouse I've used to date for that grip is the storm spawn.  It's got its own problems.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Sun, 13 November 2011, 16:59:26
Yep Id rather get tired than get a problematic mouse. Currently im waiting for is the zowie one. The kone seems like a good one but looks very bulky with those 8 buttons. Lowest sens ive had to go is 400 dpi and thats for stuff like quake or any fast paced fps. The mousepad im using also contributes to mouses that are completely flat since its a flat smooth surface without friction.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: flaming_june on Sun, 13 November 2011, 19:25:14
Like I said man, G400 is a good and cheap choice.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Sun, 13 November 2011, 19:55:33
I guess its just me, Ive had bad previous experiences with logitech stuff.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: shogrran on Sun, 13 November 2011, 21:15:49
Well I dont like logitech that much either. I have a couple of experiences with logitech mice. Their wireless mice are a tad bit too heavy, lifting up the mice is quite difficult for me.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Sun, 13 November 2011, 22:25:31
Well its not that its simply the fact that their build quality is not what I would like. Plus wireless is a big no no for me since its more accurate to have a cable.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Namkung on Sun, 13 November 2011, 23:00:19
I upgraded from Xai to sensei when sensei first came out and I have to say I love the mouse.
Now, I don't make use of any of those new fancy features and I highly doubt very many people will justify getting a sensei because they "need" those features and to me this mouse
is absolutely no different than the xai (the shape is certainly identical) and it gets the job done for me. but at the same time im not super picky when it comes to mouse as long as it feels comfortable / works properly.
upgrading to xai, i expected exactly that but upgraded because i gotta say.. it looks really nice with the chrome finish or whatever the shiny thing is that they put on it lol
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: TheProfosist on Sun, 13 November 2011, 23:19:09
Quote from: Lmnr;451520
Well its not that its simply the fact that their build quality is not what I would like. Plus wireless is a big no no for me since its more accurate to have a cable.
It is not more accurate to have a cable, why would you ever think that?
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Scarzy on Mon, 14 November 2011, 04:55:48
Quote from: RenoFox;447761
If you're unsure of what mouse you want I'd recommend the Razer Deathadder, It's got like one of the best rep's and it's only 2/3 the price of the sensei.


While this is true, the firmware DOES allow you to turn off those pointless lights, something I always do, I also see it silly to power those different lights when I've no reason for them.

I wouldn't recommend 'leaping' at any mouse though, you need to know which feels best in your hand and that you feel like you can use through and through, for me, that is the intellimouse 3.0, for you it could be the sensei!

I'd recommend trying to test one, but that is easier said than done, i'm well aware of that.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: KoolAidMan on Mon, 14 November 2011, 06:17:51
Mouse preference is very subjective but I personally love the Sensei. I had the Xai for a year, and when it was time to get a mouse for my second desktop to replace my Deathadder (I absolutely hated its high profile and small glides) I picked up a Sensei. Now it is on my main desktop.

A Sensei is basically an upgraded Xai. If you have a Xai and don't need another mouse, no rush to get one. If you need a new mouse I highly recommend it. I love the weight, the shape, and the huge glides.

If price is a huge concern for you then perhaps you should look at Steelseries' Diablo 3 branded mouse. It is $70, has the same rubberized grip as the Xai (which strangely has less traction than the grippy plastic of the Sensei), has the upgraded button switches as the Sensei, and has the same shape and weight as the Xai/Sensei. All are really excellent mice IMHO.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Mon, 14 November 2011, 09:59:12
Quote from: TheProfosist;451565
It is not more accurate to have a cable, why would you ever think that?

Its more stable to have a cable than wireless.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: shogrran on Mon, 14 November 2011, 13:05:11
Quote from: TheProfosist;451565
It is not more accurate to have a cable, why would you ever think that?

Call it accuracy or call it a different term. Its better to use a wired than a wireless mouse.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: iindigo on Mon, 14 November 2011, 13:33:37
Quick question... would be correct if I said the Mionix Naos 5000 uses the same sensor as the Xai and Sensei?
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: flaming_june on Mon, 14 November 2011, 20:10:52
Yes but that mouse suffers from some lod issues.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: shogrran on Tue, 15 November 2011, 02:18:35
Plus another question regarding all these sensor talks. The sensor is jut one part of the whole architecture right? Even with a perfect sensor if all else fails or at least on some part the mouse fails... then its all pointless.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Bullveyr on Tue, 15 November 2011, 07:47:50
Quote from: shogrran;452454
Plus another question regarding all these sensor talks. The sensor is jut one part of the whole architecture right? Even with a perfect sensor if all else fails or at least on some part the mouse fails... then its all pointless.
Yes, if you mess up something in the "data tranfer chain" from the sensor to your PC the best sensor can help.

Good example is the 8-bit USB data path bottleneck in older mice like the IME 3.0 or WMO which limited their performance at lower polling rates (125Hz), allthough there is an easy fix for that.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 16 November 2011, 00:22:38
Quote from: Lmnr;451811
Its more stable to have a cable than wireless.
Wired mice are not more stable either.
Quote from: shogrran;451907
Call it accuracy or call it a different term. Its better to use a wired than a wireless mouse.
Its not better to use either. I agree with the quote below in the fact that there isnt a mouse for everyone. If there was there wouldnt be all these different mice an sensors on the market. Also the only thing there may be a problem with wireless mice is latency which has nothing to do with anything that has been mentioned. The latency on newer wireless gaming mice cant be noticed and you wouldnt be able to pick out the wired mouse in a placebo test.

Quote from: Scarzy;451710
"I wouldn't recommend 'leaping' at any mouse though, you need to know which feels best in your hand and that you feel like you can use through and through, for me, that is the intellimouse 3.0, for you it could be the sensei!"
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: trax on Wed, 16 November 2011, 01:01:46
The only bad thing about wireless mice is that if you forget to recharge em ur ****ed the next day.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 16 November 2011, 01:34:55
Quote from: trax;453067
The only bad thing about wireless mice is that if you forget to recharge em ur ****ed the next day.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
That is why with alot of them they come with 2 battery packs or even take rechargeable NiMH batteries, which you can easily swap out. That is what I do with my G700's. O and if your worried about the battery dieing in the middle of a session you shouldnt. All mice can last that long even with 1/4-1/2 charge. If your worried swap batteries right before a session.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: shogrran on Wed, 16 November 2011, 01:48:13
Quote from: TheProfosist;453049
Wired mice are not more stable either.

Its not better to use either. I agree with the quote below in the fact that there isnt a mouse for everyone. If there was there wouldnt be all these different mice an sensors on the market. Also the only thing there may be a problem with wireless mice is latency which has nothing to do with anything that has been mentioned. The latency on newer wireless gaming mice cant be noticed and you wouldnt be able to pick out the wired mouse in a placebo test.

I apologize for not being more specific. The wired mouse is better for gaming and is more reliable even for non gaming situations. There is a reason why solids are better conductors and a reason why even after wireless has been in production for many many years and even after a lot of improvements on wireless technology, gamers still prefer the wired option e.g. The Razer Mamba which boasts of its wireless option has a wired option. Most of steelseries mice are still wired. Wireless, also is prone to interference. And this does not go only for mice. This goes for network connections and cellphone connectivity.

You may not prefer wired mouse but that doesn't mean wireless is a better option. Wired and wireless have their own pro's and con's but that's on different areas of preference like if you hate cables, or if you like a certain mouse shape etc etc.

But don't get me wrong, I agree with this statement as well

Quote
I wouldn't recommend 'leaping' at any mouse though, you need to know which feels best in your hand and that you feel like you can use through and through, for me, that is the intellimouse 3.0, for you it could be the sensei!

Specially with the shape of the mouse. Radically changing the shape of your mouse also radically extends your adjustment period. Best you take a look at what you currently have and go from there.

Personal feedback on the Sensei, its a slightly bigger mouse than other mice. If you are used to the shape AND SIZE of the XAI then no problem. I'm used to the Salmosa which is just a tiny bit smaller but now my hands ache much faster than before on gaming marathons. Plainly said, price doesn't mean performance. It still mostly depends on the user and mouse combo.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 16 November 2011, 01:53:19
Quote from: shogrran;453086
I apologize for not being more specific. The wired mouse is better for gaming and is more reliable even for non gaming situations. There is a reason why solids are better conductors and a reason why even after wireless has been in production for many many years and even after a lot of improvements on wireless technology, gamers still prefer the wired option e.g. The Razer Mamba which boasts of its wireless option has a wired option. Wireless, also is prone to interference. And this does not go only for mice. This goes for network connections and cellphone connectivity.

You may not prefer wired mouse but that doesn't mean wireless is a better option. Wired and wireless have their own pro's and con's but that's on different areas of preference like if you hate cables, or if you like a certain mouse shape etc etc.

But don't get me wrong, I agree with this statement as well



Specially with the shape of the mouse. Radically changing the shape of your mouse also radically extends your adjustment period. Best you take a look at what you currently have and go from there.
I dont hate wired things but why be wired if you dont have to? Especially for something like a mouse which compare to all the other things we have wireless has very low data transfer. Heck if the G700 only came wired I would still have bought just as many. Yes I understand the interference claim which I would only worry about if you at a huge lan, then I would just plug in the cable that is a feature of many of the wireless mine out there. What I am trying to get across is that a mouse doesnt have to be wired to be good.

Logitech made me a happy man when they made a a mouse with "gaming" features with the same ergonomic as the MX Revolution. Up until recently I wouldnt trade mouse for my Ikari Laser for gaming, for everything else I was using a track ball. The G700 also brought be back to using mice for nearly everything, but still nothing beat a track ball for lazily browsing the web.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: shogrran on Wed, 16 November 2011, 02:08:09
@TheProfosist

On that first point I agree as well. If I wasn't so into no interference and the least possible latency, i'd go wireless simply because I hate managing cables. I believe I am not the only person who looks at the 'wound up' and 'tied' cable and gets irritated.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 16 November 2011, 02:17:49
Quote from: shogrran;453096
@TheProfosist

On that first point I agree as well. If I wasn't so into no interference and the least possible latency, i'd go wireless simply because I hate managing cables. I believe I am not the only person who looks at the 'wound up' and 'tied' cable and gets irritated.
Try out a G700 if you can its what brought me back to wireless and if you ever need its wired mode its there.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Skylit on Wed, 16 November 2011, 03:12:41
http://www.overclock.net/t/1168062/evalutation-steelseries-sensei-review-56k-warning

My take on the Sensei.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 16 November 2011, 03:22:17
Quote from: Skylit;453120
http://www.overclock.net/t/1168062/evalutation-steelseries-sensei-review-56k-warning

My take on the Sensei.
Nice review I was sent a review unit of the original WoW mouse but didnt give it a favorable review and havnt been able to get a review sample since.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Bullveyr on Wed, 16 November 2011, 07:18:07
I don't have to worry about latency or interference because the added weight alone makes wireless mice a no-go for me.

Capacitors instead of batteries could "solve" that problem but I doubt we'll ever see that in a gaming mouse.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: DoctorSnoopy on Wed, 16 November 2011, 18:01:13
Quote from: TheProfosist;453098
Try out a G700 if you can its what brought me back to wireless and if you ever need its wired mode its there.


I'm using the G700 mouse right now, its a pretty good mouse, tracks well and I haven't noticed any interruptions or lags when playing BF3 or SC2 but my preference, the battery in the mouse feels a bit too heavy (G700 is 150g while Sensei is 100g) so sometimes I end up using it with the wire, w/o battery and a piece of tape (to cover the blinking red LED for low battery).
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: shogrran on Wed, 16 November 2011, 19:30:40
hmmm... and speaking of the steelseries sensei. Everytime i search around the net, I keep reading stuff about Kana kana kana kana kana kana. Is that a confirmed mouse that they'll be releasing sometime soon?
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Wed, 16 November 2011, 20:27:53
People are asking their twitter etc but they keep acting like its nothing :)
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Bullveyr on Thu, 17 November 2011, 01:45:13
Quote from: shogrran;453641
hmmm... and speaking of the steelseries sensei. Everytime i search around the net, I keep reading stuff about Kana kana kana kana kana kana. Is that a confirmed mouse that they'll be releasing sometime soon?
Confirmed but not officially announced.
It will be an ambidextrous mouse with one side button per side, smaller than Xai/Sensei but bigger than Kinzu, will probably cost 50$.

(http://pro-gear.ro/271-891-large/steelseries-kana-white.jpg)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]32275[/ATTACH]

They also posted 2 internal pics on twitter.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: shogrran on Thu, 17 November 2011, 10:57:40
Confirmed but not announced.... sounds shady.. so who confirmed it. If its really the official steelseries confirmation thats really interesting. Hhmm.. but its strange was it confirmed before the sensei was released?

At 50USD sounds like a deal. The internal pics on their twitter page is that the 'mouse gore' pic that they posted in friendster as well?

I might get that when it comes out not that I don't like my sensei but because I have a good experience with steelseries. You have to admit, computer peripherals are sometimes addictive.

 Hopefully it comes in gloss white. I like the concept of just one button on the side. (i wish they make a non ambidextrous mouse for a change)
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: TheProfosist on Thu, 17 November 2011, 10:59:47
Quote from: shogrran;454053
Confirmed but not announced.... sounds shady.. so who confirmed it. Just leakage?

At 50USD sounds like a deal. The internal pics on their twitter page is that the 'mouse gore' pic that they posted in friendster as well?

I might get that when it comes out not that I don't like the sensei but because I have a good experience with steelseries.

 Hopefully it comes in gloss white. I like the concept of just one button on the side. (i wish they make a non ambidextrous mouse for a change)
their original mouse the Ikari Laser was righty only and I loved the thing i wish they would give it an update.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: shogrran on Thu, 17 November 2011, 12:15:52
Quote from: TheProfosist;454057
their original mouse the Ikari Laser was righty only and I loved the thing i wish they would give it an update.

I like righty mouse as well. Even if I deactivate the buttons on the other side of the mouse for ambidextrous design,for me it just feels to irritating to accidentally press the buttons when they don't do nothing or just when I am moving the mouse. I have a grip where I keep my ring finger outside of the mouse on the edge of it and that keeps hitting the buttons.

I'm trying to adjust now by changing my grip and making my ring finger ride the mouse as well but adjusting really takes a lot of effort when you are so used to something and it makes my hand hurt. Specially when I forget and what happens is that I try to make the ring finger "float" on top of the buttons :D and I get a tired finger.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Bullveyr on Thu, 17 November 2011, 13:43:29
Quote from: shogrran;454053
Confirmed but not announced.... sounds shady.. so who confirmed it. If its really the official steelseries confirmation thats really interesting. Hhmm.. but its strange was it confirmed before the sensei was released?
A while ago you could vote on the color of an upcomming mouse (Mouse1.1), the second pic is the winning color.

Some times later some online shops listed a SteelSeries Kana (together with a Kinzu v2), Kim Rom, their Marketing Manager, startet posting on OCN, 3 forum members got an (afaik early) sample for feedback and reviewing.

Quote
At 50USD sounds like a deal. The internal pics on their twitter page is that the 'mouse gore' pic that they posted in friendster as well?
yep

There will be a glossy white version, you can see it in the background of the 1st and 3rd pic here (http://www.overclock.net/t/1168062/evaluation-steelseries-sensei-56k-warning).
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: shogrran on Thu, 17 November 2011, 14:57:13
Oh sweet mother of god! I LOVE THE LOOKS OF IT!

Its simple, not much bling but looks stylish.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]32309[/ATTACH]
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: jbluzb on Thu, 01 December 2011, 07:41:52
I have a steelseries sensei and it is all good. I will break this in BF3
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Fri, 02 December 2011, 22:40:48
So theres a new sensei... any major differences?
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: hcry4 on Thu, 15 December 2011, 09:36:58
I like the xai over g500, but they are both good. The sensei is not really worth the extra money for the lights and colors, but I still like it just a little more than the xai.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: shogrran on Sun, 18 December 2011, 13:58:26
So I have been using the SteelSeries Sensei for a few weeks now.

I have some additional feedback. I am having problems with the size of the mouse. I think my hands are too small for the Sensei. So that is something to consider as well if you want to buy this mouse.

To explain:

1. The width is slightly bigger than my old Salmosa. It wouldn't matter to palm grippers I believe but for my own grip I tend to put just two fingers on top of the mouse and rest the ring finger on the edge of the mouse. Over time my finger muscles get tired because subconsciously I tend to avoid pressing the right side buttons even if I disabled them in the driver. To give a more graphical description; my ring finger is bent more to the right and that eventually tires me.

2. I can adjust the above problem by resting my fingers more to the center claw grip style but that takes my index and middle finger away from the ideal clicking area near top of the mouse. Its harder to click down the middle of the mouse (just the way a lever works). Doing it this way doesn't make my ring finger tired as much but now my index and middle gets the stress.

3. I can also adjust from problem one by resting my ring finger on the second mouse button but that doesn't work very well. The added weight on the button makes it really easy to press the button accidentally. In a way that makes me "hover finger" and that is tiresome.

4. The hump of the back of the mouse itself is a problem for me. It rests too far back on the palm for my claw grip. If you know the kinzu that I believe is a more ideal mouse shape.

All in all I have read a lot of reviews saying this mouse is so comfortable comfortable comfortable etc etc. I think that is a load of marketing. The mouse being comfortable is the least of its good features for me. One mouse shape cannot be a solution for all.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: inaneframe on Sun, 18 December 2011, 14:10:11
Then stay far away from the g700, you would hate the crap out of it.  Thicker and bulkier than the readings I see for the Sensei.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: kaen on Sun, 18 December 2011, 15:01:14
I found the sensei to be the perfect size, but i do have very large hands, i have no negatives for it at the moment.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: shogrran on Sun, 18 December 2011, 22:17:00
Quote from: inaneframe;473293
Then stay far away from the g700, you would hate the crap out of it.  Thicker and bulkier than the readings I see for the Sensei.



Ahh well the logitech g700 boasts of its shape. I think shape-wise for a right-handed person that would be better. But I had experience with those mice being too heavy. Hahaha.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: inaneframe on Mon, 19 December 2011, 04:18:06
Quote from: shogrran;473571
Ahh well the logitech g700 boasts of its shape. I think shape-wise for a right-handed person that would be better. But I had experience with those mice being too heavy. Hahaha.


Are we going to see the Sensei in the classifieds section soon?
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Inf3rn0_44 on Tue, 03 January 2012, 22:45:49
To put this simple its a Xai with some lights and new paint. Laser mice in general are not worth it. So that is a no it cost too much for what it gives you.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Tsubaki on Tue, 03 January 2012, 22:58:34
Get an xai, its the same thing except a lot cheaper without LEDs.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: hcry4 on Wed, 04 January 2012, 01:24:10
Not really worth it, but love it nonetheless.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: kaen on Wed, 04 January 2012, 10:25:22
Quote from: hcry4;482921
Not really worth it, but love it nonetheless.

This. It is an extravagance, nothing more. Other mice out there can perform just as well. I do love the shiny tho :)
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: hcry4 on Wed, 04 January 2012, 11:12:23
I also like the fact that you can put a mini black and white bmp pic or sig on the bottom.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Wed, 04 January 2012, 13:38:04
hmm so its only worth it due to its extra features?
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: hcry4 on Wed, 04 January 2012, 13:59:19
That depends on if you want/need those extra features. Xai is pretty much the same mouse without the lights and stuff. I do prefer the SteelSeries Engine software for the Sensei over the Xai specific one.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: jellowiggler on Wed, 04 January 2012, 14:26:00
Quote from: hcry4;483158
I also like the fact that you can put a mini black and white bmp pic or sig on the bottom.

Why is it appealing to put a screen on the bottom of a mouse? Who looks at the bottom of a mouse?
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: hcry4 on Wed, 04 January 2012, 15:05:19
I just put my handle on the bottom to identify my mouse.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Mazora on Wed, 04 January 2012, 15:55:47
I find it very appealing. I love the sensei !
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Sencha on Thu, 05 January 2012, 16:46:51
The sensei firmware is upgraded from the Xai. Its the first time I've used the avago 9500 on cloth and its been decent. If you can get the Sensei for a decent price then its superb mouse.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: jbluzb on Sun, 08 January 2012, 05:19:30
Finally after a months' use, I am comfortable and happy using the steelseries sensei mouse. Superb tracking.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: hcry4 on Mon, 09 January 2012, 18:09:50
It's $70 for Amazon lightning deal, if anyone was looking to save $10. Less than 2 hours.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Shogunner on Tue, 24 January 2012, 21:39:05
Oh hey the Sensei price dropped, I'd just like to say that I was sent a review copy and was extremely impressed by it. I'm a G9 user but the Sensei did accomdate for my weird Claw/Palm hybrid (most likely developed because of G9 usage) grip over a few days. It's an excellent mouse in my opinion, and it's extremely comfortable. SteelSeries did a really good job with it. The only qualm I have is the really shiny stainless steel top. Other than that I would recommend it.

Hope that helps anyone whose on that line. :)
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Waterdr1nker on Thu, 26 January 2012, 22:16:20
I've been using the Sensei since about October. I got it for maybe $64 shipped cause of the discount they gave out at Blizzcon. I really like it. I've used a Deathadder, Orochi, Imperator, G9x, and 518, and It's probably the best mouse I've ever used. Sure, it's a laser mouse, but it tracks great for what it is on my cloth pad, so take that however you wish.

Also, I'd like to touch on Steelseries' support. The first Sensei I was using had an issue with the middle click where it would double-click after pressing it once. It started to really bug me, so I sent it in about a week ago. Today, I got a package in the mail: a BNIB Sensei that works perfectly. And since I had already been using their clunky software on my PC, I didn't even need to set up the mouse again—my settings just transferred right over.

Awesome mouse, awesome company. I'm happy, so if you're willing to drop the cash, I highly recommend the product and the company.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: nksharp on Thu, 26 January 2012, 23:02:20
Quote from: Waterdr1nker;500236
I've been using the Sensei since about October. I got it for maybe $64 shipped cause of the discount they gave out at Blizzcon.

Got it during their blizzcon promo as well. I had used a G5,G500 and a roccat kone previously and this one trumps them all. Customization in everything is amazing and it is probably also lighter then most other mice (not sure if lighter then my roccat but it broke).

I did like the grip on my G5 better since it was easier to grip, the top of this is more of a smooth metallic surface more or less so that might just come down to preference.

I actually thought the buttons on the right side would bother me but after a week I got use to it (accidently hit them a few times during that first break in period).
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Sat, 28 January 2012, 02:10:56
My main concern so far is the acceleration that the xai and the kinzu have and if its the same with the sensei.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: hazeluff on Sat, 28 January 2012, 08:55:01
Quote from: Lmnr;447760
Mostly due to gaming I have this on my wrist.

I also use a modified claw grip and with 500-800 dpi.

The Mark of a Gamer.

Some days my wrist is red/brown because of playing SC2. = D
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Sat, 28 January 2012, 23:42:54
Lol Sometimes its a way to know if another person plays pc games :D
I recently purchased a steelseries qck mousepad below my cyborg mousepad just so it didnt get that dark cause it looked pretty bad..
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: thp777 on Sun, 29 January 2012, 00:10:28
what is getting on your wrist? the paint or stain in the desk?
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Rinx7 on Sun, 29 January 2012, 18:48:45
I love mine don't notice much of the Acceleration Problems that I do on other Mice and on a decent hard Mousepad it glides.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: commandercup on Mon, 30 January 2012, 12:30:48
I went from the G9 to the Xai and loved it... but only for a few days. After a while, my wrist/hand started to hurt for whatever reason. I moved on back to the G9X. YMMV
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Mon, 30 January 2012, 18:19:22
Quote from: thp777;502129
what is getting on your wrist? the paint or stain in the desk?
Its your skins natural reaction to putting constant pressure on a certain part.


For me its just a spot it doesn't hurt but its never a bad thing to get a good mouse-pad to put some padding wherever your wrist comes to contact with a hard surface.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Mon, 30 January 2012, 18:23:15
Quote from: Rinx7;502656
I love mine don't notice much of the Acceleration Problems that I do on other Mice and on a decent hard Mousepad it glides.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9O4h2OP1DI
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: nmd on Wed, 01 February 2012, 00:36:08
Quote from: Lmnr;501368
My main concern so far is the acceleration that the xai and the kinzu have and if its the same with the sensei.

I've never noticed any acceleration issues with the Xai despite having seen this claim before. :/ I know Kinzu has a noticeable issue though.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Henry Allen Venture on Wed, 01 February 2012, 02:24:19
Quote from: nmd;505005
I've never noticed any acceleration issues with the Xai despite having seen this claim before.


Seconding this.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: RamaBot on Wed, 01 February 2012, 05:21:22
Quote from: Henry Allen Venture;505054
Seconding this.


Thirding this
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Luc0z on Thu, 01 March 2012, 13:34:52
In my opinion, the mouse is either complete and utter sh*t or has major problems on cloth mousepads, such as the QcK+

The freemove gimmick is a load of crap. It makes it woefully hard to adjust your aim upwards, and it seems that, regardless of my exactaccel and exactaim settings, that moving the mouse left and right is more sensitive than moving it up and down and for that reason, I am returning it. I absolutely despise this product. Looks like I wont be buying from steelseries ever again.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Sat, 03 March 2012, 21:38:10
Try the zowie am supposedly its got the best sensor.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Anyguy4321 on Tue, 06 March 2012, 18:37:49
Just got the sensei in from Amazon.  It seems like a very solid mouse, basically the revered Microsoft Intellimouse on steroids.  First impressions are that the tracking is very good (though I do have a 4hd pad).  I do not notice issues on the qck (though the gripes seem to be for mild (5%) accleration at very high speeds while the mouse has low dpi which only super-hardcore fps'ers achieve).  I have a hayate coming in tomorrow with which I will test (and which is confirmed to basically negate acceleration problems for the most part).  I do NOT like the metal shell on this thing and the LED on the backside of the mouse is razer-level gimmicky if cool.  I thought you could change the picture but apparently you can only change what it says on the bottom led which you won't see 99.99% of the time anyways.

Tracking seems fine to me (but I mainly play SC2).  The fact that the mouse's buttons are built into the chassis means that I feel like clicking is a tad slower than on my CM storm.  Also the mouse is narrower than my cm storm around the buttons which I feel makes the mouse less stable as a platform while clicking (matters for precision).  This is mainly niggling.  My main concern with the mouse is that the top metallic part is somewhat slippery and glossy which I do not like.  I however really like the rubber grip on the sides.  I think this mouse may be a keeper (general gaming, RTS gaming) but I may return it and get the fnatic version which has a matte top instead of a metallic one (could care less about the dumb led).  However the fnatic version of the sensei has glossy sides too :/.  Why didn't they leave the sides rubber for the fnatic edition?  So silly.

It is definitely a top tier mouse for most things (except maybe hardcore high-end fps'ing which I admittedly don't do).

*************************************

Edit after a few hours use: While the tracking is superb and the ergonomics are ok, the metal top started sticking to my hand after an hour or so of use (I have somewhat sweaty hands).  I knew this would happen.  It looks like I'll be trying out the fnatic edition at some point instead.  Looks like a return for me.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: notnay on Sun, 11 March 2012, 17:13:01
I'm not going to lie, almost bought a sensei just due to the pretty lights.

Damn Steelseries, almost got me again.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: anselben on Sat, 17 March 2012, 01:03:56
I've had a Steeleseries Ikari laser for the past 3 years and love it, it's never given me really any problems, and other than wearing the finish off from use, it works just as well as when I bought it.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: filphil on Sat, 17 March 2012, 01:52:19
The xai at $35 from newegg is a great deal if you decide springing for the sensei is more of a luxury than you'd be willing to spend for.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Shogunner on Wed, 21 March 2012, 04:48:29
Took some pictures of my Sensei, **** this mouse is gorgeous. (http://i.imgur.com/ju7kV.gif)

(http://i.imgur.com/emTih.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/BHMl7.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/ugP1U.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/s8FE5.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/eegNk.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/9VbuS.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/EVlOl.png)

~so artsy~

(http://i.imgur.com/ptKjA.png)
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Zensuji on Wed, 21 March 2012, 13:13:39
Sensei RAW is out soon. No screen on the bottom so a bit lighter, can get it in rubber or gloss and $60

http://steelseries.com/products/mice/steelseries-sensei-raw
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: hcry4 on Wed, 21 March 2012, 14:35:04
So it's a Xai that's been renamed?
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: nmd on Fri, 23 March 2012, 21:11:32
And re-shelled, with a lighting engine, and a lit logo and wheel.  So, yes and no(I lean towards yes.)
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: tehsprayer on Fri, 23 March 2012, 21:14:39
I absolutely love the R.A.T 3 by Cyborg, but I also heard that the deathadder and g9x are top of the line.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Fri, 23 March 2012, 22:34:02
Silly Steelseries I see their pattern now..
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Arcane on Sat, 24 March 2012, 11:10:45
what about the coating on the sensei raw? does it come off like on the xai mouse? Had 2 xai mice and on both of these the logo came off like in a few weeks and also the coating itself on the main buttons where the fingers rest. The gloss coating seems to be the same as on the Kana. Anyone with longtime experience? I think Razer does a pretty decent job at rubber coating their mice. Never seen those wear off. If the rubber coating on the sensei raw is the same crap as on the xai I would definetly get a glossy coating one. If both of these coating methods suck I would get a different mouse no matter what. Also they need to improve their mouse wheel if they haven't already. At least the one on the xai is a clunky sucky one. From a technical point of view the xai might be a good mouse but everything around it is really not the best out there....
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: flaming_june on Sat, 24 March 2012, 11:30:45
Quote from: Lmnr;555152
Silly Steelseries I see their pattern now..

Haha, yeah.

Also, don't forget that it also offers 11k cpi!
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Shogunner on Sat, 24 March 2012, 15:43:07
SteelSeries know that thats all numbers bull****, they just needed more sales fromt he typical idiots that buy stuff like Razer. The Xai came with 5001 even as a joke.
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: killazys on Mon, 02 April 2012, 10:40:06
No. Its not. I'm planning on selling mine. I claw grip and its too big, also I never use any of the features. All in all a pretty bad purchase. Only good thing is that there's literally no liftoff distance. Oh and the sensor is pretty accurate but you can get that with any laser
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: aerial on Tue, 03 April 2012, 05:49:03
http://www.esreality.com/files/placeimages/2012/86015-sensei.jpg
Title: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: Lmnr on Tue, 03 April 2012, 12:52:51
Quote from: aerial;565493
http://www.esreality.com/files/placeimages/2012/86015-sensei.jpg

Just wow.
Title: Re: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: bramke on Mon, 28 January 2013, 23:11:27
very bad mouse my oppinion , using a ec1

i have a steelseries sensei fnatic mouse for sale 1 time used if someone interested
Title: Re: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: daerid on Tue, 29 January 2013, 02:01:24
Personally, I love my Sensei. I'll probably be back on it here fairly shortly (I rotate mice frequently).

Definitely one of my favorites. Probably will pick up a RAW here soon, too.
Title: Re: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: KangarooZombies on Tue, 29 January 2013, 02:59:37
Its an excellent mouse so far! Havent had it terribly long yet so i cant speak to the value very much, but this thing feels solid, has some neat looking LED's and overall is just a very ascetically pleasing mouse. As for performance, its as good as my old Razer mice, which, in my experience were very solid for gaming. This mouse has taken over as my new favorite mouse and I would recommend it.
Title: Re: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: vun on Tue, 29 January 2013, 06:18:58
Personally, I love my Sensei. I'll probably be back on it here fairly shortly (I rotate mice frequently).

Definitely one of my favorites. Probably will pick up a RAW here soon, too.
I'm currently using mine that I picked up a few days ago, I am loving it so far. I also rotate mice fairly often, but after getting my G600 and Sensei I don't really feel like using any of my other mice. It's also one of the best looking mice I've seen so far.
Title: Re: Steelseries Sensei...worth it?
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 29 January 2013, 17:56:06
http://www.esreality.com/files/placeimages/2012/86015-sensei.jpg (http://www.esreality.com/files/placeimages/2012/86015-sensei.jpg)

I don't get it, why are there pictures of children in that ad-slice.