Author Topic: PBT keycaps  (Read 11517 times)

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Offline RaVNzCRoFT

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PBT keycaps
« on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 20:13:44 »
I'm interested in getting the Banggood gray PBT keycaps for my Filco Majestouch-2.  First of all, those should fit, right?  They all look the right size to me but it couldn't hurt to get a second opinion.

More importantly though, the title of that product is confusing me.  It says laser etched but it also says engraved.  Is that even a thing?  The legends are clearly visible in the preview picture so it's obviously laser etched, but is there a chance that they're also engraved?  I don't want engraved keys because they'll get dirty.  I'm concerned that there's only one poor-quality preview picture and I'm sure their customer service won't be of any help because they're a large retailer, not a keyboard company.

Anyone have any thoughts?  Anybody bought and received these keycaps yet?  Seems like they're still in the mail for almost everybody.

Also, a quick note:  white PBT keycaps on banned vendor apparently are selling better, so it's more likely that people on GH bought those instead.  But the title of the white keycap set does not mention engraving.  Additionally, the white ones have two Windows keys while the gray ones have one Windows key and one Fn key, so they're definitely not just the same keycap set in different colors.

mod edit: the vendor mentioned is this post is banned on geekhack. however, the post refers to the fairly common thin PBT OEM profile engraved caps that are available nearly everywhere on taobao and vended by many on this board.
« Last Edit: Thu, 24 October 2013, 00:30:45 by RaVNzCRoFT »
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Offline divito

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Re: PBT keycaps
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 03:01:27 »
I have no clue what the mod edit is referring to, so I can't really help.
Varmilo (MX Grey) KeyCool 87 (MX Clear) Quickfire Stealth (MX Green)

Offline RaVNzCRoFT

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Re: PBT keycaps
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 12:11:03 »
Yeah, I kind of understand mkawa's reason for disliking the retailer I linked to, but his edit really screwed this post over. =/  This was a specific question about the product; with the specific site/product information redacted, I doubt anyone knows what the hell the post is even asking anymore...
« Last Edit: Mon, 23 September 2013, 12:27:25 by RaVNzCRoFT »
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Offline rowdy

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Re: PBT keycaps
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 17:23:11 »
Perhaps if you rephrase it more generically, and link to similar products then someone will be able to recommend where to get the keycaps you are looking for.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline RaVNzCRoFT

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Re: PBT keycaps
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 19:20:05 »
Well, that's just say that a couple of weeks ago, some people on /r/mechanicalkeyboards noticed a particularly good-looking deal on several sets of Keycool PBT keycaps.  And when I say good deal, I mean ~$25 for a set of 104 caps.  Seeing as this company (abbreviated BG) is from China, some were skeptical about whether or not this deal is legit.  However, they are branded as Keycool keycaps and apparently LinusTechTips did a review of this site, so it would seem as though the deal is in fact legit.  mkawa and I exchanged several PMs and he basically swears by the fact that this site is a scam, but I don't believe it.  He said they used to be known as Tmart, who to be fair have terrible reviews on resellerratings, but BG has a 9.3/10 and there's no indication to me that it's a sketchy site.  Side note:  mkawa also said that BG has spammed advertisements on GH and even offered bribes for business, but I'm simply trying to take advantage of the wonderful capitalist market that is the internet.  I'm clearly not a spammer or affiliated with BG in any way.  Now, I know of plenty of people on /r/mechanicalkeyboards who have purchased these caps.  Although I don't think anybody has received them yet, they are in transit and the company stated up-front that delivery could take several weeks due to customs.  So I don't think I'm being too naive when I say this deal appeals to me.

Anyway, on to my question.  The keycaps I want are gray and are listed as "Keycool 104 PBT Grey Laser Etched Keycap Laser Engraving Key Caps" on the site.  You definitely shouldn't google that text because then you might find the product page.  I'm very confused because it says laser etched but it also says laser engraved, and I didn't think that was a thing.  Laser etched or engraved, but not both.  I don't want engraved because dirt gets in the engravings.  Now, also listed on BG is a product called "Keycool 104 PBT Top Print White Key Caps for Cherry MX Switch."  Notice it says top print but there's no mention of engraving.  Now, one could logically assume that these keycaps are the exact same set in different colors, but I don't think that's the case.  KEYCOOL is clearly visible on the gray spacebar, but you can't see it in the white spacebar and someone on reddit who already received their white keycaps said there's no text on theirs.  Also, the gray set has one Windows key and one Fn key, whereas the white set has two Windows keys.  So even if they're similar keycap sets, they're not exactly the same; therefore, I don't feel comfortable concluding that the gray ones are only laser etched because the white ones are only laser etched.  I don't want the white keycaps because I'm afraid they'll get dirty, plus I don't like the look of white on black.

So that's basically my predicament and I'm looking for any information that may be available.  Also, I had initially wanted to make sure the keycap set would fit on my Filco.  I'm pretty sure it will, but a second opinion couldn't hurt.  With the link in my OP removed, nobody would know.  But now you have a better idea of the product I'm interested in.

Also, note that I'm well aware of the numerous options I have when it comes to PBT keycaps.  The answer I'm looking for isn't "just get a similar set from qtan/feng."  I know I can pay $50-100 for PBT caps from another source, but the low price of this particular set is what caught my eye.
« Last Edit: Mon, 23 September 2013, 19:43:18 by RaVNzCRoFT »
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Offline rowdy

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Re: PBT keycaps
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 20:38:14 »
Ah, then if it is this particular set, you might have to bite the bullet and buy them, then let us know what happens.

As for layout, KeyCool is a completely standard layout (assuming ANSI), identical to the Filco and also QFR.  Standard space bar, standard modifiers - any standard ANSI key cap set should fit just fine.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline swill

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Re: PBT keycaps
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 25 September 2013, 00:02:28 »
I just purchased this unnamed set yesterday.  It is still in 'processing', but if you are interested, I can keep this thread updated with what happens.

Just a shout out.  I bought the set in the picture below from 'imsto' and I have to say they are awesome.  He is an A+ seller and a pleasure to work with.

Offline PointyFox

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Re: PBT keycaps
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 25 September 2013, 00:09:41 »
Thesaurus:
"etching - print, impression, carving, engraving, imprint, inscription".


Offline mr. rampage

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Re: PBT keycaps
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 25 September 2013, 08:51:55 »
I just purchased this unnamed set yesterday.  It is still in 'processing', but if you are interested, I can keep this thread updated with what happens.

Just a shout out.  I bought the set in the picture below from 'imsto' and I have to say they are awesome.  He is an A+ seller and a pleasure to work with.
Show Image


Would you have a link to that IMSTO set? They look nice!

Offline Sifo

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Re: PBT keycaps
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 25 September 2013, 08:52:48 »
We have banned vendors?? O_O
I love Elzy

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: PBT keycaps
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 25 September 2013, 08:56:23 »
We have banned vendors?? O_O

Clearly they broke the VTOS  :))

Offline Sifo

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Re: PBT keycaps
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 25 September 2013, 08:57:07 »
I can't for the life of me remember who. Oh well. Damn that's scary I hope I don't get banned gg
I love Elzy

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: PBT keycaps
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 25 September 2013, 09:01:11 »
I can't for the life of me remember who. Oh well. Damn that's scary I hope I don't get banned gg

whalebro would avenge you don't worry mkawa is scared of whalebro

Offline swill

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Re: PBT keycaps
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 25 September 2013, 21:02:32 »
I just purchased this unnamed set yesterday.  It is still in 'processing', but if you are interested, I can keep this thread updated with what happens.

Just a shout out.  I bought the set in the picture below from 'imsto' and I have to say they are awesome.  He is an A+ seller and a pleasure to work with.
Show Image


Would you have a link to that IMSTO set? They look nice!

Just PM him and link the image I posted.  I can not find them on his store right now, but I could not find them when I bought them either.  I just saw that he had sold a set so I asked him if he had any and he did...

Offline acer589

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Re: PBT keycaps
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 27 September 2013, 14:32:19 »
If we're talking about who I assume we're talking about (87 cap blank set going for 17.69) then I just got that set yesterday. They're good, but HOLY **** they are tight. I felt like I was going to rip a switch out when I was trying to remove one to get better access to a stabilizer. So, don't get me wrong. They look and feel good, but.... you may need to be okay with them being permanent. Especially if you have PCB mounted switches.
MX Blue Black Widow Ultimate    MX Black Quickfire Rapid TKL    MX Black Poker II

Offline uzoc

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Re: PBT keycaps
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 28 September 2013, 11:25:19 »
I just purchased this unnamed set yesterday.  It is still in 'processing', but if you are interested, I can keep this thread updated with what happens.

Just a shout out.  I bought the set in the picture below from 'imsto' and I have to say they are awesome.  He is an A+ seller and a pleasure to work with.
Show Image


Yes, keep me up to date!
If you have links on where to buy, or any reviews, also.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: PBT keycaps
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 28 September 2013, 12:36:00 »
I just purchased this unnamed set yesterday.  It is still in 'processing', but if you are interested, I can keep this thread updated with what happens.

Just a shout out.  I bought the set in the picture below from 'imsto' and I have to say they are awesome.  He is an A+ seller and a pleasure to work with.
Show Image


Would you have a link to that IMSTO set? They look nice!

Just PM him and link the image I posted.  I can not find them on his store right now, but I could not find them when I bought them either.  I just saw that he had sold a set so I asked him if he had any and he did...

He said he is out of stock.

Offline swill

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Re: PBT keycaps
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 28 September 2013, 19:53:56 »
I just purchased this unnamed set yesterday.  It is still in 'processing', but if you are interested, I can keep this thread updated with what happens.

Just a shout out.  I bought the set in the picture below from 'imsto' and I have to say they are awesome.  He is an A+ seller and a pleasure to work with.
Show Image


Would you have a link to that IMSTO set? They look nice!

Just PM him and link the image I posted.  I can not find them on his store right now, but I could not find them when I bought them either.  I just saw that he had sold a set so I asked him if he had any and he did...

He said he is out of stock.

That's too bad. I was considering getting another set of those.

Offline swill

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Re: PBT keycaps
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 16 October 2013, 21:26:48 »
I just wanted to follow up on this because I got these keycaps today.  It took about a month to arrive (which isn't actually too bad).

Here are some images.
The front printed is an IMSTO thick pbt (almost cherry profile).  The dark grey is the keycap in question (OEM profile).  The black is a stock Filco keycap (OEM profile).
39546-0
39548-1
39550-2

The legends are pretty crappy on these caps.  That does not surprise me, but if you buy these be aware of this.  It says they are lazer etched, but they feel more like pad printed.  You can definitely feel the printing raised under your finger.

These are by no means high quality keycaps.  You are absolutely getting what you pay for with these.  I was expecting this, but I prefer PBT, so I wanted to get a cheap set of PBT keycaps to tide me over till I got a nice set.

As others have pointed out.  These caps are CRAZY tight fitting.  When I put them on, I am going to lube the stem to hopefully make the cap less permanent.

Offline RaVNzCRoFT

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Re: PBT keycaps
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 20 October 2013, 13:24:35 »
Thanks for the update!  Do you think there's a big risk of breaking the stems while trying to remove the super-tight keycaps?
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Offline swill

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Re: PBT keycaps
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 20 October 2013, 14:31:09 »
Thanks for the update!  Do you think there's a big risk of breaking the stems while trying to remove the super-tight keycaps?

Just take your time and do very small circles when you remove the keycap.  If you have a PCB mounted switch it is more likely that the top of the switch housing will come off.  If that happens, be careful not to lose your springs...

Offline Aliwia

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Re: PBT keycaps
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 22 October 2013, 10:20:25 »
Could you possible hold down the switch with a flathead screwdriver while pulling the caps?

Offline uberknarf

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Re: PBT keycaps
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 23 October 2013, 16:36:36 »
Just to add to the information on this seller, I tried purchasing the same PBT set before reading about the seller here.

When I placed the order, there was plenty of stock. We're over 10 days later now, and I just received an email notifying me that they are out of stock. The order had been marked as "processing", and remains in that state on their site. I was given the option of receiving credit or a refund. I've opted for the latter.

Offline swill

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Re: PBT keycaps
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 23 October 2013, 17:01:05 »
This probably validates the "just-in-time" allogations that others have posted against this seller.


Offline kip69

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Re: PBT keycaps
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 24 October 2013, 04:13:03 »
Hey guys.  I actually started ordering from there recently.  I received a cherry blue keycool that I am reviewing now, a ton parts for my gopro camera and a few other bits. Ordering a gopro battery slowed it down. FYI: lithium batteries are now hard to mail and should not be in checked baggage. Find out about that before travel or buying anything with batteries.

I just made a second order of Xmas gifts and case mod supplies (dinoc and paracord)
I hope to buy the clear switch board for Xmas myself.

They are advertising hard. They are trying to get the products and service reviewed. They seem to be doing the right thing here. I don't understand the hate. Would someone kindly point me to some evidence against them. PM me here or on OCN (kip69).  I really want to get to the bottom of this before I go recommending them much more.

Thanks
Kip

Offline uberknarf

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Re: PBT keycaps
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 24 October 2013, 09:40:02 »
Hey guys.  I actually started ordering from there recently.  I received a cherry blue keycool that I am reviewing now, a ton parts for my gopro camera and a few other bits. Ordering a gopro battery slowed it down. FYI: lithium batteries are now hard to mail and should not be in checked baggage. Find out about that before travel or buying anything with batteries.

I just made a second order of Xmas gifts and case mod supplies (dinoc and paracord)
I hope to buy the clear switch board for Xmas myself.

They are advertising hard. They are trying to get the products and service reviewed. They seem to be doing the right thing here. I don't understand the hate. Would someone kindly point me to some evidence against them. PM me here or on OCN (kip69).  I really want to get to the bottom of this before I go recommending them much more.

Thanks
Kip

I don't have time to link you to the posts at the moment, but the short answer is that there is no publicly-available "incontrovertible proof". It's up to you to make a decision based on the information that's out there, which includes the following:

  • Moderators here have posted to note that BG representatives violated the Terms of Service for this site. On that basis, the representative(s)' account(s) have been banned, and BG is no longer welcome here.
  • One aspect of these violations was offering goods or discounts to moderators/administrators/users on this site. BG seems to claim that this was a marketing effort, while members of this site view it otherwise.
  • It has been claimed that the operators of BG are the same individuals who ran T-mart. Buyers at T-mart were scammed when the owners "cut-and-run" with the money, and no goods were delivered. There are certain similarities in the way the two projects run (just in time being one example). The problem with a "cut-and-run" is that you don't know it's happening until it's over, so you won't find the evidence or proof until it's too late. It seems that people here (many of whom got burned by T mart) are being cautious with this newer seller.

The evidence may be unconvincing for you, and that's fine, but you may appreciate why others are more willing to accept it with this context.

Offline RaVNzCRoFT

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Re: PBT keycaps
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 24 October 2013, 15:10:18 »
For the record, the only person on GH who seems to have had a problem with BG before this whole issue became publicized is mkawa.  In a post on reddit yesterday, a BG representative refuted all of his claims.  Consumers have a right to buy what they want from whomever they want, and mkawa shouldn't feel such a strong need to discourage people from using a site he personally believes is suspect.
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