[GB] M65-A | Made with RAMA.WORKS (Complete)

[jchan94]

Hello hello!

I just sent an email to the participants.

Basically, if you want to upgrade to a QMK based PCB, we have it ready!

Form Here -https://goo.gl/forms/DtqgjeELSaMYVomL2

In other news, the 3 layer sandwich acrylic case will launch soon for those who are wondering.

[Kavik]

Hello hello!

I just sent an email to the participants.

Basically, if you want to upgrade to a QMK based PCB, we have it ready!

Form Here -https://goo.gl/forms/DtqgjeELSaMYVomL2

In other news, the 3 layer sandwich acrylic case will launch soon for those who are wondering.

For the noobs among us, what are ps2avrgb, QMK, and atmega32u4? I'm not really sure what I would be upgrading to.

[Valaris]

Hello hello!

I just sent an email to the participants.

Basically, if you want to upgrade to a QMK based PCB, we have it ready!

Form Here -https://goo.gl/forms/DtqgjeELSaMYVomL2

In other news, the 3 layer sandwich acrylic case will launch soon for those who are wondering.

You previously mentionned the QMK one would have USB C. Will this be mini USB or USB C?

[jchan94]

Hello hello!

I just sent an email to the participants.

Basically, if you want to upgrade to a QMK based PCB, we have it ready!

Form Here -https://goo.gl/forms/DtqgjeELSaMYVomL2

In other news, the 3 layer sandwich acrylic case will launch soon for those who are wondering.

For the noobs among us, what are ps2avrgb, QMK, and atmega32u4? I'm not really sure what I would be upgrading to.

TLDR:

ps2avrgb uses a GUI to do everything. It's more difficult to make macros, but easier to program basic layouts and underglow.

QMK is more complex and allows for special functions to be programmed, and is way more flexible (granted, YMMV based on your own knowledge, and google skills, etc). We'll have a basic GUI for this though.

ALSO, it uses MINI-B. We also have a Type-C one that is still in development, but ya know... things take time

[Valaris]

Hello hello!

I just sent an email to the participants.

Basically, if you want to upgrade to a QMK based PCB, we have it ready!

Form Here -https://goo.gl/forms/DtqgjeELSaMYVomL2

In other news, the 3 layer sandwich acrylic case will launch soon for those who are wondering.

For the noobs among us, what are ps2avrgb, QMK, and atmega32u4? I'm not really sure what I would be upgrading to.

Benefits:

ps2avrgb uses a GUI to do everything. It's more difficult to make macros and such.

QMK is more complex and allows for special functions to be programmed, and is way more flexible (granted, YMMV based on your own knowledge, and google skills, etc).

ALSO, it uses MINI-B. We also have a Type-C one that is still in development, but ya know... things take time

Good! I already ordered a coiled cable and wanted to make sure I didn't have to get it redone.

[kawasaki161]

I hope I'm not too late for the QMK one. Just submitted the form 

The invoice number you were asking for was something like M65-A-(number), right?

[kmba]

I took the upgrade cuz why not.

[kustom3]

Glad to see QMK offered, seems quite interesting to play with!

[...]
The invoice number you were asking for was something like M65-A-(number), right?

That should be it yeah. Or we're both wrong :x

[wodan]

I recommend before upgrading take a close look at the BootMapperClient and consider of there's anything you want that can't be done in there. It's such a neat mapping & programming GUI ... QMK isn't better because it is more expensive of has more potential. You'll have a much harder time performing the same things you can do with the ps2avrgb board, it's really only worth it if you actually use the additional potential.

[kawasaki161]

I recommend before upgrading take a close look at the BootMapperClient and consider of there's anything you want that can't be done in there. It's such a neat mapping & programming GUI ... QMK isn't better because it is more expensive of has more potential. You'll have a much harder time performing the same things you can do with the ps2avrgb board, it's really only worth it if you actually use the additional potential.

It's also worth it if you had problems with input delay with ps2avrGB in the past and care about that, but never had any problems with TMK or QMK like it's the case for me.

I totally agree with the statement that BootMapperClient has a nice GUI that works well and that it will do 90% of the stuff QMK does keymapping wise, the lack of visualisation of the keymap in QMK is pretty unintuitive.

[kmba]

I took it because I already have ps2 based boards with input lag and I want something different to tinker with.

[chancellorr]

I recommend before upgrading take a close look at the BootMapperClient and consider of there's anything you want that can't be done in there. It's such a neat mapping & programming GUI ... QMK isn't better because it is more expensive of has more potential. You'll have a much harder time performing the same things you can do with the ps2avrgb board, it's really only worth it if you actually use the additional potential.

It's also worth it if you had problems with input delay with ps2avrGB in the past and care about that, but never had any problems with TMK or QMK like it's the case for me.

I totally agree with the statement that BootMapperClient has a nice GUI that works well and that it will do 90% of the stuff QMK does keymapping wise, the lack of visualisation of the keymap in QMK is pretty unintuitive.

I tried playing with QMK for my Planck but still can't figure it out. I'll look into it deeper sometime in the future but for now I'm going to stick with the Winkeyless firmware for this board.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[nathanrosspowell]

It's been a while since I did any major programming, but I'm pretty familiar with TMK. Wanted a reason to have a look into QMK to see if it's quantifiably better in any areas.

If any of you have trouble with QMK I'd be happy to build up a library of firmwares to share 

[Tally810]

Hey jchan on order 168 I jumped the gun and went for the upgrade.  After thinking about it I would rather stay with the bootmapper client as I am already familiar with it.  Sorry for the confusion and please disregard my form.

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk

[breusch91]

I took it because I already have ps2 based boards with input lag and I want something different to tinker with.

I have never built my own board and am pretty knew to this. Could you elaborate on the "input lag" ?  Are you talking while mapping the layout of the pcb or do you mean actual lag from key click (say typing the word "there") to having it produce those letters on your screen?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wodan]

I have never built my own board and am pretty knew to this. Could you elaborate on the "input lag" ?  Are you talking while mapping the layout of the pcb or do you mean actual lag from key click (say typing the word "there") to having it produce those letters on your screen?

I am typing on a ps2avr based keyboard right now and this input lag is something people playing reaction games like ... I dunno ... Tetris? ... are experiencing. It's close to immeasurable and you wouldn't realize it unless you played cetain reaction-based games

[kmba]

I took it because I already have ps2 based boards with input lag and I want something different to tinker with.

I have never built my own board and am pretty knew to this. Could you elaborate on the "input lag" ?  Are you talking while mapping the layout of the pcb or do you mean actual lag from key click (say typing the word "there") to having it produce those letters on your screen?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Very small input lag between key press and registering with the OS using ps2avr, however I've only used it with an atmega32a, not the u4, so it very well may be a symptom of the chip, not the firmware. Others have reported it with the 32a as well. Keep in mind it's very small amount of lag, and won't be noticeable whatsoever during typing or 99% of gaming. Only with crazy fast timing based rythm games. Unless you're grandmaster rhythm champion I wouldn't think twice or worry about the lag.

[Arallu]

..

[r4wromg]

TLDR:

ps2avrgb uses a GUI to do everything. It's more difficult to make macros, but easier to program basic layouts and underglow.

QMK is more complex and allows for special functions to be programmed, and is way more flexible (granted, YMMV based on your own knowledge, and google skills, etc). We'll have a basic GUI for this though.

ALSO, it uses MINI-B. We also have a Type-C one that is still in development, but ya know... things take time

What's the timeline for the Type-C QMK PCB? Will it be offered as another upgrade before the M-65 ships or will we have to purchase a whole new PCB afterwards if we want both features? I want QMK, but having Type-C would be nice also

[Potatoes]

I upgraded because 18 bucks... But I honestly have no idea what this means. And that's after reading the above posts.

[codedisorg]

Just signed up for the upgrade. Hope that I didn't miss it like I did the brass plate.

[MythicalWagyu]

Submitted for upgrade cause it seems like QMK can do more stuffs.... but I hope I'm not too stupid to figure it out 

[Tally810]

I upgraded because 18 bucks... But I honestly have no idea what this means. And that's after reading the above posts.

From what I gather the upgrade can be cool if you are good at firmware and stuff. The original has a user friendly Gui and is more noobtato friendly

 *noob not noobtato... wtf auto correct

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk

[CMYK]

Email was sent 5:31am, and I filled out my form three hours later, so I hope I got in the upgrade.  Instead of an upgrade, I kind of want one Ps2 pcb, and one qmk pcb.

[imprevade]

I upgraded because 18 bucks... But I honestly have no idea what this means. And that's after reading the above posts.

From what I gather the upgrade can be cool if you are good at firmware and stuff. The original has a user friendly Gui and is more noobtato friendly

 *noob not noobtato... wtf auto correct

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk

noobtato
/noob tay toe/
noun
a word used to describe the offspring of a noob and a potato

[Tally810]

Email was sent 5:31am my time, and I submitted my form 3hours later.  I filled out my form three hours later, so I hope I got in the upgrade.  Instead of an upgrade, I kind of want one Ps2 pcb, and one qmk pcb.

This would be ideal!

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk

[Tally810]

I upgraded because 18 bucks... But I honestly have no idea what this means. And that's after reading the above posts.

From what I gather the upgrade can be cool if you are good at firmware and stuff. The original has a user friendly Gui and is more noobtato friendly

 *noob not noobtato... wtf auto correct

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk

noobtato
/noob tay toe/
noun
a word used to describe the offspring of a noob and a potato

It all makes sense now.  You are very wise

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk

[Kavik]

Hello hello!

I just sent an email to the participants.

Basically, if you want to upgrade to a QMK based PCB, we have it ready!

Form Here -https://goo.gl/forms/DtqgjeELSaMYVomL2

In other news, the 3 layer sandwich acrylic case will launch soon for those who are wondering.

For the noobs among us, what are ps2avrgb, QMK, and atmega32u4? I'm not really sure what I would be upgrading to.

TLDR:

ps2avrgb uses a GUI to do everything. It's more difficult to make macros, but easier to program basic layouts and underglow.

QMK is more complex and allows for special functions to be programmed, and is way more flexible (granted, YMMV based on your own knowledge, and google skills, etc). We'll have a basic GUI for this though.

ALSO, it uses MINI-B. We also have a Type-C one that is still in development, but ya know... things take time

Cool, thanks for the explanation. I think I'll stick with the basic PCB to keep things simple.

[anthonyooiszewen]

Personally gonna wait for the Type C + QMK revision, but this is an awesome upgrade option!

Speaking of Type C, will the M-65's case be able to accommodate the larger type-C port? Looks like there's not a whole lot of wiggle room right now even for the Mini USB port. I'm hoping I won't need to buy an updated case just to move to USB type-C.

Thanks!

[GreyAmbience]

Personally gonna wait for the Type C + QMK revision, but this is an awesome upgrade option!

Speaking of Type C, will the M-65's case be able to accommodate the larger type-C port? Looks like there's not a whole lot of wiggle room right now even for the Mini USB port. I'm hoping I won't need to buy an updated case just to move to USB type-C.

Thanks!

Type C? What's that?


*Edit sorry I didn't read all of it before I asked.
USB C is a bad idea for a keyboard I think. No cable compatibility and no reason for it.


Sent from my microwave oven using alternating current

[chancellorr]

Personally gonna wait for the Type C + QMK revision, but this is an awesome upgrade option!

Speaking of Type C, will the M-65's case be able to accommodate the larger type-C port? Looks like there's not a whole lot of wiggle room right now even for the Mini USB port. I'm hoping I won't need to buy an updated case just to move to USB type-C.

Thanks!

Type C? What's that?

Sent from my microwave oven using alternating current

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB-C

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[imprevade]

Personally gonna wait for the Type C + QMK revision, but this is an awesome upgrade option!

Speaking of Type C, will the M-65's case be able to accommodate the larger type-C port? Looks like there's not a whole lot of wiggle room right now even for the Mini USB port. I'm hoping I won't need to buy an updated case just to move to USB type-C.

Thanks!

Type C? What's that?


*Edit sorry I didn't read all of it before I asked.
USB C is a bad idea for a keyboard I think. No cable compatibility and no reason for it.


Sent from my microwave oven using alternating current

There's no "cable compatibility" because there aren't many boards that have it yet. In the very near future, many of the custom keyboards and PCBs coming out will have USB-C, and you're going to see a lot more people selling custom USB-C cables. With most new technology, it will take time for everyone to get with it. (There's people out there still buying movies on DVD, for example.) There are huge benefits to USB-C as well. My favorite, is that you can never accidentally try and plug the cable in upside-down—it fits both ways. It's also higher speed, and can supply more power than a standard USB cable. (more RGBs bruh ) Of course, both ends have to be USB-C compatible for this to happen—which means your computer needs to have USB-C (or equivalent) ports, or you have to have an externally powered USB-C hub. Lastly, the USB-C ports and connectors are much more durable than their counterparts.

[kolashnikov]

Hold up, if QMK has been ported to ps2avrgb boards, isn't this an $18 "upgrade" to limit yourself to QMK only? The standard, cheaper PCB would have the option to use bootmapperclient or QMK. What am I missing? 

[leoparder]

Hold up, if QMK has been ported to ps2avrgb boards, isn't this an $18 "upgrade" to limit yourself to QMK only? The standard, cheaper PCB would have the option to use bootmapperclient or QMK. What am I missing? 

Also what thought. Can someone help explain the differences between the two pcbs ?

[kawasaki161]

Hold up, if QMK has been ported to ps2avrgb boards, isn't this an $18 "upgrade" to limit yourself to QMK only? The standard, cheaper PCB would have the option to use bootmapperclient or QMK. What am I missing? 

Also what thought. Can someone help explain the differences between the two pcbs ?

The ps2avrGB PCBs are reliant on V-USB for their USB compatibility since the atmega 32a does not support native USB.
The QMK PCB here uses an atmega32u4 which does have native USB compatibility.
I had a ps2avrGB based board with a 32a in the past and it had more input delay than my TMK/QMK/o2d ones which all use either a 32u2 or a 32u4. It is not very noticeable for normal use and not even for most of gaming use, all your mainstream games (LoL, DotA, CSGO, Overwatch, Battlefield, etc.) will work fine, it's just that there cases where this affects you a lot like in rhythm games or high-level tetris or stuff like that.
In my experience ps2avrGB with a 32a had more input delay than Leeku's L3 firmware with a 32a, which had more input delay than all the 32u2/32u4 implementations I tried. I cannot predict how efficient the code that implements V-USB into QMK is, but I still believe that even the best V-USB implementation is slower than the native USB of the 32u2/32u4. But up until now all my testing was done with just "feeling it" and the hit-error bar in osu! , so nothing really concrete yet. I also did some other test where I hit a key which played a sound which was recorded with a microphone and I the went through the recordings and wrote down the delay(to compare the difference between boards, not to measure the base delay of each board, that wouldn't work that way), but other than confirming my speculations it didn't do too much as there was still too much variance in the single measurements to get a exact number in ms, I took averages of 10 though.
Oh also I don't think that V-USB supports N-Key rollover, iirc it is not able to use USB fullspeed which is necessary for N-Key rollover.

[jchan94]

Hold up, if QMK has been ported to ps2avrgb boards, isn't this an $18 "upgrade" to limit yourself to QMK only? The standard, cheaper PCB would have the option to use bootmapperclient or QMK. What am I missing? 

Also what thought. Can someone help explain the differences between the two pcbs ?

The ps2avrGB PCBs are reliant on V-USB for their USB compatibility since the atmega 32a does not support native USB.
The QMK PCB here uses an atmega32u4 which does have native USB compatibility.
I had a ps2avrGB based board with a 32a in the past and it had more input delay than my TMK/QMK/o2d ones which all use either a 32u2 or a 32u4. It is not very noticeable for normal use and not even for most of gaming use, all your mainstream games (LoL, DotA, CSGO, Overwatch, Battlefield, etc.) will work fine, it's just that there cases where this affects you a lot like in rhythm games or high-level tetris or stuff like that.
In my experience ps2avrGB with a 32a had more input delay than Leeku's L3 firmware with a 32a, which had more input delay than all the 32u2/32u4 implementations I tried. I cannot predict how efficient the code that implements V-USB into QMK is, but I still believe that even the best V-USB implementation is slower than the native USB of the 32u2/32u4. But up until now all my testing was done with just "feeling it" and the hit-error bar in osu! , so nothing really concrete yet. I also did some other test where I hit a key which played a sound which was recorded with a microphone and I the went through the recordings and wrote down the delay(to compare the difference between boards, not to measure the base delay of each board, that wouldn't work that way), but other than confirming my speculations it didn't do too much as there was still too much variance in the single measurements to get a exact number in ms, I took averages of 10 though.
Oh also I don't think that V-USB supports N-Key rollover, iirc it is not able to use USB fullspeed which is necessary for N-Key rollover.

This is all correct. I wanted to explain it, but I felt like it would have been difficult to understand if I wrote it out.

But thanks for this!

Very good explanation <3 thanks bro

[Photoelectric]

Do you know what color solder mask is used for each of the two offered PCB types?

[jchan94]

Do you know what color solder mask is used for each of the two offered PCB types?

ps2avrgb - black

qmk - possibly a dark grey.

[kolashnikov]

Hold up, if QMK has been ported to ps2avrgb boards, isn't this an $18 "upgrade" to limit yourself to QMK only? The standard, cheaper PCB would have the option to use bootmapperclient or QMK. What am I missing? 

Also what thought. Can someone help explain the differences between the two pcbs ?

The ps2avrGB PCBs are reliant on V-USB for their USB compatibility since the atmega 32a does not support native USB.
The QMK PCB here uses an atmega32u4 which does have native USB compatibility.
I had a ps2avrGB based board with a 32a in the past and it had more input delay than my TMK/QMK/o2d ones which all use either a 32u2 or a 32u4. It is not very noticeable for normal use and not even for most of gaming use, all your mainstream games (LoL, DotA, CSGO, Overwatch, Battlefield, etc.) will work fine, it's just that there cases where this affects you a lot like in rhythm games or high-level tetris or stuff like that.
In my experience ps2avrGB with a 32a had more input delay than Leeku's L3 firmware with a 32a, which had more input delay than all the 32u2/32u4 implementations I tried. I cannot predict how efficient the code that implements V-USB into QMK is, but I still believe that even the best V-USB implementation is slower than the native USB of the 32u2/32u4. But up until now all my testing was done with just "feeling it" and the hit-error bar in osu! , so nothing really concrete yet. I also did some other test where I hit a key which played a sound which was recorded with a microphone and I the went through the recordings and wrote down the delay(to compare the difference between boards, not to measure the base delay of each board, that wouldn't work that way), but other than confirming my speculations it didn't do too much as there was still too much variance in the single measurements to get a exact number in ms, I took averages of 10 though.
Oh also I don't think that V-USB supports N-Key rollover, iirc it is not able to use USB fullspeed which is necessary for N-Key rollover.

This is all correct. I wanted to explain it, but I felt like it would have been difficult to understand if I wrote it out.

But thanks for this!

Very good explanation <3 thanks bro

Ordered. Thank you both.

[phutro]

When will we know if we got the upgraded PCB?

[jchan94]

When will we know if we got the upgraded PCB?

you'll get an email / invoice later this week. Most likely on Thursday.

In other news, I've just got a timeline from the manufacturer.

Current timeline:

Mid April - Manufacturing is done.
End of April - Shipment arrives to me in Los Angeles
Shipment to occur after.

As far as extras go, they will all be available after the GB at FCFS on www.keyclack.com ; and only after the GB has shipped out.

[pon10]

Ok so its only a upgrade? not a extra PCB? i was looking to fast.. the ps2avrgb is just easier to program right? cuz it uses bootmapper, wanted to try both   

[jchan94]

Ok so its only a upgrade? not a extra PCB? i was looking to fast.. the ps2avrgb is just easier to program right? cuz it uses bootmapper, wanted to try both   

For the extra PCBs, we'll have them in a separate sale along with an optional layered case. It's kind of complex mixing them together imo from a logistical stand point.

Bootmapper is definitely really easy to use. QMK is a lot more difficult .

[Auxo]

Ok so its only a upgrade? not a extra PCB? i was looking to fast.. the ps2avrgb is just easier to program right? cuz it uses bootmapper, wanted to try both   

For the extra PCBs, we'll have them in a separate sale along with an optional layered case. It's kind of complex mixing them together imo from a logistical stand point.

Bootmapper is definitely really easy to use. QMK is a lot more difficult .

I'm pretty unaware of what the different programming styles are, is QMK like the redscarf? idk if you have experience with them, but that thing was a b*tch to program, esp. as a person who doesnt understand that stuff very well

[pon10]

Ok so its only a upgrade? not a extra PCB? i was looking to fast.. the ps2avrgb is just easier to program right? cuz it uses bootmapper, wanted to try both   

For the extra PCBs, we'll have them in a separate sale along with an optional layered case. It's kind of complex mixing them together imo from a logistical stand point.

Bootmapper is definitely really easy to use. QMK is a lot more difficult .

Ok thanks Thanks Jchan. I have sent you an email regarding not to upgrade then

[bthezebra]

I know this is late to the party but for the normal pcb, it uses a micro usb port correct?

Sent from the love gun.

[Valaris]

I know this is late to the party but for the normal pcb, it uses a micro usb port correct?

Sent from the love gun.

Mini, not micro.

[bthezebra]

I know this is late to the party but for the normal pcb, it uses a micro usb port correct?

Sent from the love gun.

Mini, not micro.

Thank you I need to adjust a cable order then womp womp

Sent from the love gun.

[Malenky]

Jchan - Is there any chance I can change my contact email to be different to my paypal/invoice email? Also, I filled out the form and I didn't know what to put for the order ID so I used my PayPal transaction ID.

[jchan94]

Jchan - Is there any chance I can change my contact email to be different to my paypal/invoice email? Also, I filled out the form and I didn't know what to put for the order ID so I used my PayPal transaction ID.

Hey,

Email me the whole situation, your paypal transaction ID, paypal ID, and the new email ?

jchan@keyclack.com