Author Topic: [GB] 62/60: The first full-RGB, hot-swappable 60% [Round 0: 12/14 shipped]  (Read 30279 times)

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Offline Chewypost

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I think the only person who can confirm right now is iss. I'll let you know how my r2 zealios fit though
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Offline derpingit

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Are the round2 sign ups still on for the 20th ?


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Online audax989

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Are the round2 sign ups still on for the 20th ?


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this is looking a bit bleak for the 20th. still keeping my hopes up though. I'd rather wait and have it compatible with existing 60% cases cause, that lustro case is looking mighty fine.

Offline gadzkun

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Are the round2 sign ups still on for the 20th ?


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this is looking a bit bleak for the 20th. still keeping my hopes up though. I'd rather wait and have it compatible with existing 60% cases cause, that lustro case is looking mighty fine.

hope for the next round it will compatible with common 60% cases. ;)
« Last Edit: Wed, 18 May 2016, 23:49:30 by gadzkun »

Offline Lobosmoose

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Any new updates?

Offline iss

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Hey guys,

Round 0 shipments (and by extension, Round 1) have been delayed. The gist of the problem is consistency- the board and case have been maddeningly inconsistent (especially in regards to hot-swapping), and I don't want to ship boards with issues. The main issue is that switch chattering is initially present in many cases, and it can occur from several sources: a bad solder joint from the socket to the PCB, a poorly inserted switch, or an issue with the switch itself. While all of these are solvable, it's fairly time-consuming to diagnose and fix, which has been holding me up.

All parts are now on hand, and the firmware is pending metalliqaz's approval. I've got a few boards ready to ship pending final testing, and a few more in queue for assembly. If you're in Round 0 and would prefer to cancel or move your order to Round 1, send me a PM and I'll issue you a refund.

By the way, I might be at the NYC meetup next Thursday- if I'm there, I'll bring a couple of boards along.

Offline kawasaki161

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Will you have any info on standard 60% compatability before the Lustro GB ends? I might pick one of those up if the PCBs end up compatible to them, I still really like your sandwich case though.

Offline ideus

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Hey guys,

Round 0 shipments (and by extension, Round 1) have been delayed. The gist of the problem is consistency- the board and case have been maddeningly inconsistent (especially in regards to hot-swapping), and I don't want to ship boards with issues. The main issue is that switch chattering is initially present in many cases, and it can occur from several sources: a bad solder joint from the socket to the PCB, a poorly inserted switch, or an issue with the switch itself. While all of these are solvable, it's fairly time-consuming to diagnose and fix, which has been holding me up.

All parts are now on hand, and the firmware is pending metalliqaz's approval. I've got a few boards ready to ship pending final testing, and a few more in queue for assembly. If you're in Round 0 and would prefer to cancel or move your order to Round 1, send me a PM and I'll issue you a refund.

By the way, I might be at the NYC meetup next Thursday- if I'm there, I'll bring a couple of boards along.

The need for some debugging is totally normal with a new design, particularly with one that is innovative, like yours. Keep us posted on the availability of round one and its features: Standard sixty case compatibility, ISO and if it would be available with and without dip-sockets. I'd would be in for one PCB of each type and two plates, if they are sixty compatible.
« Last Edit: Fri, 20 May 2016, 19:16:20 by ideus »

Offline WOMBO

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super interested in these if they'er 60% compatible - this + lustro would look tight imo

Offline gadzkun

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Hey guys,

Round 0 shipments (and by extension, Round 1) have been delayed. The gist of the problem is consistency- the board and case have been maddeningly inconsistent (especially in regards to hot-swapping), and I don't want to ship boards with issues. The main issue is that switch chattering is initially present in many cases, and it can occur from several sources: a bad solder joint from the socket to the PCB, a poorly inserted switch, or an issue with the switch itself. While all of these are solvable, it's fairly time-consuming to diagnose and fix, which has been holding me up.

All parts are now on hand, and the firmware is pending metalliqaz's approval. I've got a few boards ready to ship pending final testing, and a few more in queue for assembly. If you're in Round 0 and would prefer to cancel or move your order to Round 1, send me a PM and I'll issue you a refund.

By the way, I might be at the NYC meetup next Thursday- if I'm there, I'll bring a couple of boards along.

looks like a non-hotswappable PCB will solve this.
hope we have a non-hotswappable PCB option for next round? ;)

Offline FoC_Tow

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[GB] 62/60: The first full-RGB, hot-swappable 60% [Round 0: in production]
« Reply #110 on: Sat, 21 May 2016, 07:45:51 »
Lots of people seem to actually prefer a non hotsawppaple version, including myself.

While hot swappability can be a nice feature if you make use of it, a soldered PCB just seems more solid / reliable to me and makes for one less source of error to worry about.

If the majority of ppl prefer a soldered version, and swappability actually is causing issues, I would personally vote for ditching hot swappability completely for round 1 boards.


Edit:
Ditching swappability should also make it quite easy to include a layout option like this, which was brought up by me and some others to be their ideal arrowed 60% layout.



It would take only two extra switch spots for the pcb, and the layout uses pretty much only standard keys, and has a more clean overall appearance imo.
« Last Edit: Sat, 21 May 2016, 08:00:39 by FoC_Tow »

Offline kawasaki161

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If the majority of ppl prefer a soldered version, and swappability actually is causing issues, I would personally vote for ditching hot swappability completely for round 1 boards.
I'd be okay with a soldered version for round 1 as long as the plate supports switch top removal. I'm mainly here for the pretty cool sandwich case and the RGB stuff.

Offline gadzkun

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If the majority of ppl prefer a soldered version, and swappability actually is causing issues, I would personally vote for ditching hot swappability completely for round 1 boards.
I'd be okay with a soldered version for round 1 as long as the plate supports switch top removal. I'm mainly here for the pretty cool sandwich case and the RGB stuff.

i vote for non hot-swappable option too for round 1, and common 60% case compatibility of course :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Offline monksoffunk

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I vote for non hot-swappable, too.
And I like the sandwich case.

Offline Chewypost

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As much as non-swappable offers reliability and stability, I'm one for the hot swappable of the keyboard kit. I see this as a way to test out full kit switch types without having to solder them onto boards. It most likely will not be my daily driver, but it's a sweet option with the bonus of the lighting and price point for such things.
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Offline Liam

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I believe with hot-swappable, you guys can still solder the pin and the "thing" to your PCBs.
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Offline kawasaki161

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I believe with hot-swappable, you guys can still solder the pin and the "thing" to your PCBs.

It will be very hard to desolder it again though.

I'd say the best option (for me) would be:
Make 2 versions of the board, one non-hotswappable with switch top removal compatible plate and the other one just like planned with hotswap compatability. The non-hotswap version can be sold while the hotswappable one will be debugged. That way the ones that don't want hotswapping can already get their board and the hotswappable one will be sold in a round 2 after the bugs are removed. That way the ordering, manufacturing and shipping process can be split up and work will be more evenly distributed over the available time.

I was also in because I though hotswapping is a cool feature, but if it causes more problems than it should I'd rather go woth soldering and switch top removal for pseudo-hotwaps. Not saying the other one should be ditched though.

Offline FoC_Tow

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As much as non-swappable offers reliability and stability, I'm one for the hot swappable of the keyboard kit. I see this as a way to test out full kit switch types without having to solder them onto boards. It most likely will not be my daily driver, but it's a sweet option with the bonus of the lighting and price point for such things.

Using it as a full board to test switches with is definitely a use case hotsawppability makes a lot of sense in.

I've been a fan of Khaannn's arrowed 60% layout for a long time tho and really want to put some use to the board, so I'd personally prefer a solid permanent build. :)

I'm mainly fan of the layout, but really liking dat sandwich case aswell.
Ideally I'd get a full board and one standalone pcb, so I can get the full board experience, aswell as enjoy dat layout on a secondary build in case of my choice.

I definitely understand the desire to test switches in a real use scenario, but for me it's all about the layout personally.



For a more permanent build I would prefer soldered tho personally.

Offline ideus

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Switches can be tested with soldered bottoms along with a plate with notches to allow switch opening, and old and reliable way to have the best of both worlds in a board that is as robust as any other keyboard around. It may require a bit of labor but at the end actual custom switches require disassembly any way, like ergos, jailbreaks and name your very own mix of stems, springs and tops, something that you can only do with MX switches.

I hope the design for round one includes:

Standard sixty case support.
PCB with regular pass true holes for switch or dip sockets soldering.
Plate with notches for switch removal.
ISO (I think this is something already considered).

Again, I'd be in for a couple of PCB and plate sets. By the way, I also hope the sandwich case may be offered as a separate item, it rocks.

Offline Chewypost

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Switches can be tested with soldered bottoms along with a plate with notches to allow switch opening, and old and reliable way to have the best of both worlds in a board that is as robust as any other keyboard around. It may require a bit of labor but at the end actual custom switches require disassembly any way, like ergos, jailbreaks and name your very own mix of stems, springs and tops, something that you can only do with MX switches.

True, and although it seems that your solution would be the middle ground between soldering and hot-swappable, some housings wouldn't be completely compatible, for example, zealios and cherries. I'd honestly rather be able to swap out the switches completely and offset an extra hour or so replacing switch tops, springs and top housings.
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Offline iss

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Consistency issue has been solved- the reinforcing plate was sitting on parts of the stabilizer assembly, resulting in unevenness. Currently evaluating solutions to either fix the plates I have on hand or have them recut. Either way, it's looking good.

Zealios are okay everywhere except on the edges of the board- boards with 100% Zealios should work fine, but right now I'd recommend Zealio alphas + Gateron/Cherry mods.

Offline ideus

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Consistency issue has been solved- the reinforcing plate was sitting on parts of the stabilizer assembly, resulting in unevenness. Currently evaluating solutions to either fix the plates I have on hand or have them recut. Either way, it's looking good.

Zealios are okay everywhere except on the edges of the board- boards with 100% Zealios should work fine, but right now I'd recommend Zealio alphas + Gateron/Cherry mods.

Very good. At this point and with the information already provided, it seems that a PCB for soldering may be a better fit for those that need a reliable keyboard, also for those that take it along during trips.

Offline kawasaki161

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How is standard 60% support coming along? I just want to know if I should join the Lustro GB for this board or not.

Offline Harms

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Hi, the pictures show the keyboard in two diff layouts. One has the backspace on the very top like and the other one above the enter key. Therefore, is the board offered in two diff layouts?

EDIT: Im a genius LOL XD. 62/60, so that must mean one has the standard backspace while the other has the HHKB style backspace.
« Last Edit: Sat, 28 May 2016, 23:16:24 by Harms »

Offline Lobosmoose

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Hi, the pictures show the keyboard in two diff layouts. One has the backspace on the very top like and the other one above the enter key. Therefore, is the board offered in two diff layouts?

EDIT: Im a genius LOL XD. 62/60, so that must mean one has the standard backspace while the other has the HHKB style backspace.

Yeah you got to choose what kind of layout you wanted. The options where 2u backspace or two 1u backspace, also a 7u spacebar or 6.25 spacebar.

Offline Harms

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Thank you and I was going to to this board for zeal, since I cannot solder. Thus, keep us updated on the zeal compatability, thanks. Finally, with assembly can you also install the stabs?.
« Last Edit: Sun, 29 May 2016, 21:08:41 by Harms »

Offline iss

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Shipping has started! 4/16 boards (the reviewer boards) will go out tomorrow, with three more currently ready to ship. Rest are in queue.

Right now, I'm strongly considering running a Round 0b (similar number of boards, drawn from the Round 0 signup pool) to test the new 60%-case compatible PCB. I've been extremely busy at work as of late, but that design should be wrapped up in the next couple of weeks.

Offline Lost2Frostbite

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A second round 0b sounds great! Appreciate your contributions to this community but please if work is more important take a break :)

Offline ideus

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Good news! It is great that you will try sixty compatibility in that 0b round.

I would appreciate a lot if you can kindle confirm the availability for the features bellow, besides sixty compatibility, at your earliest convenience:

1. PCB featuring switch soldering.
2. Plate with switch top removal.

It is understandable that you are not ready to answer if these features will be available or not; but, I just want to leave a reminder in the thread, as no one of them have been confirmed, yet.

The reason for the request in my case is this:

I am a thinkpad user and thinkpads have a keyboard check routine that runs at BIOS level each time the machine is started up; then, any chattering, or open circuit triggers an stop instruction and the machine will not start, unless the "delinquent" device is disconnected, I even have some issues with GONs keyboards, I think that a hot-swappable will be a no go in this case; sometimes, the dock mitigates the condition, but other it doesn't and plugging off the keyboard is the only solution, which is a bit annoying as I have a dock with display and keyboard already connected at work and at home.
« Last Edit: Mon, 30 May 2016, 20:54:16 by ideus »

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Round 0b!!!!

Offline CPTBadAss

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I was lucky enough to be in on Round 0. Thank you iss. My first concern is that the packaging isn't doing it's job.



My board lost a corner. Second concern is that the leg came loose and now I have to completely disassemble the board that you were nice enough to build up to get to those screws. I know it looks better to have the screws come in through the bottom of the case so the head is hidden but that's something to think about. Especially since there are other exposed screw heads.
« Last Edit: Thu, 02 June 2016, 16:44:01 by CPTBadAss »
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Offline theteam

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^ouch, how was it package?

Offline iss

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Will send you a PM in a bit for more details. Didn't expect that to happen (and livingspeedbump's board, sent out on the same day, was reportedly fine).

Offline CPTBadAss

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Upon closer inspection, it looks like the leg has completely ripped out. The nuts pulled out of the leg and ripped the plastic. So now the only way to reattach the leg is to glue it on.

The board was shipped with bubble wrap wrapped around it twice in a small box. I think the bubble wrap needs to be doubled up or something.


And the edges are really banged up. I think there needs to be a reconsideration on the material used as well.
« Last Edit: Fri, 03 June 2016, 01:55:15 by CPTBadAss »
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Offline Liam

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Any update?
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Offline LeandreN

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Received the Round 0 keyboard in Norway. Everything arrived in good condition. I will make a review as soon as I get my Gaterons in here. Thanks!

Offline ideus

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I would appreciate a lot a draft schedule for round 1 PCB and the features it will sport. I damaged one of my boards when changing its layout; thus, I am in need of a replacement and I would like to understand how long this will take and if it may fit my needs, to decide if I should wait or if I should get an alternative PCB for my build.

Offline Ryvaeus

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Hey iss, sorry to be a bother especially considering you have some things to deal with that's put delays on the board. Just wondering if you're still planning on updating us over at your subreddit?
« Last Edit: Thu, 09 June 2016, 20:08:05 by Ryvaeus »

Offline zoke

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any plans for hot-swappable plate which is compatible with most of the 60% cases e.g TEX cases?

Offline ideus

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any plans for hot-swappable plate which is compatible with most of the 60% cases e.g TEX cases?

The hot-swapping feature is provided by the PCB, not the plate.

Offline Liam

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Almost 2 weeks and no update yet  :confused:
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Offline Lobosmoose

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Almost 2 weeks and no update yet  :confused:


Yeah thats not a cool thing to do just to leave the participants in the dark like that. I just hope he completes R0 before June but thats looking unlikely, was really hoping to have a new board to play with this summer.

Offline ideus

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The project seems to be in stalled now.

Offline iss

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No news because...

1) I've been working too much (54 hours/6 days last week).
2) Five boards ready to ship, but waiting on a bit of reviewer feedback given the issues CPTBadAss had.

Round 0b/1 definitely are a bit stalled right now. Hopefully I'll have good news soon.
« Last Edit: Tue, 14 June 2016, 21:55:34 by iss »

Offline Lobosmoose

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No news because...

1) I've been working too much (54 hours/6 days last week).
2) Five boards ready to ship, but waiting on a bit of reviewer feedback given the issues CPTBadAss had.

Round 0b/1 definitely are a bit stalled right now. Hopefully I'll have good news soon.

Thank you for updating us, i knew it had to do something with the reviewers. i hope one of those boards is mine!
« Last Edit: Wed, 15 June 2016, 17:56:39 by Lobosmoose »

Offline kawasaki161

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So uhh, any news? A "Hi, I'm still working on fixing this and that problem" would be enough for me.

Offline iss

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Will be shipping more boards on Monday- will update once that happens.

Offline Vadurr

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With my Pulse set arriving next week, this will be the last piece to my project!

Offline iss

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Shipping out five boards tomorrow morning- remaining boards will be shipped out on July 11th, as I'm out of town next weekend.

Gave the original board a bit of a freshening today :)


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Shipping out five boards tomorrow morning- remaining boards will be shipped out on July 11th, as I'm out of town next weekend.

Gave the original board a bit of a freshening today :)

Show Image



they come with a PuLSE set now! oh wow! such improvements! jk

Still stoked for this man.. round 0b!!!!!