[IC] F62+F77! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[darkspider]

If you are interested in selling them in Japan, I come up with neotec.co.jp. This is a small keyboard seller, but locally well-known to japanese keyboard enthusiasts.
Unfortunately I've never have any contact with the owner and don't know whether he accepts individual offer. And because the seller is very small, he won't order very much though. But if you want, I can inform him about this project and products via e-mail on the site.

[rowdy]

My first thought was MechanicalKeyboards.com.  Most of the others seem to concentrate on keycaps rather than keyboards.

[Techno Trousers]

Massdrop.com might be a possibility too? They seem like a great fit for a one-time-only production run, though I don't know anything about how they are to deal with from the vendor perspective.

[dante]

My suggestion is also Mechanicalkeyboards.com.  They are a great group of guys with wonderful service and fantastic packing/shipping.

I'd stay away from MassDrop for the following reason(s):

1. Their fullfilment center sucks.  They make Amazon's look fantastic.
2. Multiple stories/rumors of them ripping off keycap designs with no credit/$$$ given to the creator.
3. Refusing to acknowledge defects in products prior to putting their order in (Varmilo 108's with the wrong side legends immediately comes to mind.)

In general, MD will throw a bone once in a blue moon for products that are rare and wouldn't be possible without them [Tao Hao Alps Doubleshots] - but in general they've turned into a dumping site for sub-par Chinese boards.

[Zaskar]

This is really coming together amazingly Ellipse, was it decided if the case was going to be Zinc and painted or aluminum and anodized?

[Ellipse]

They will likely be aluminum with colors close to the original off white or Industrial powdercoated paint, black, or another color (special order).  I can also try to special order anodized/clear coat/non-powdercoated ones if you PM me ahead of time.  They may cost a little more. 

[darkspider]

anodizing? That's sound great! I want one if it does not cost so much.

[rowdy]

Massdrop.com might be a possibility too? They seem like a great fit for a one-time-only production run, though I don't know anything about how they are to deal with from the vendor perspective.

Massdrop could be a possibility, especially to get the keyboards out to a wider audience.

However if their shipping is anything to go by, you'd better make a few extras to replace any that get damaged in transit.

[Elrick]

They will likely be aluminum with colors close to the original off white or Industrial powdercoated paint, black, or another color (special order).  I can also try to special order anodized/clear coat/non-powdercoated ones if you PM me ahead of time.  They may cost a little more.

DEFINITELY, want to order an anodized casing just provide the colour chips, samples and whatnot, for our selection and it should be done.  Had experienced with powder coating in the past very uneven and the coating is sometimes quite thin depending upon the person spraying it in a booth.  Also powder coating can chip or wear away from constant use and it can also deteriorate in the sunshine due to the UV.

Don't care if you only offer one or two choices in colour, as long as it's fully anodized  .

[dante]

Ellipse if you decide that MassDrop is the best choice for this - please somehow work out a way to avoid their fullfilment center.

Unless you enjoy the idea of your blood, sweat, and tears being banged up in transit due to insufficient/careless packing.

[Ellipse]

dante - I will be personally testing and mailing each one ordered directly through my order form.  They are also shipping in custom made styrofoam and a double-walled cardboard box.

[njbair]

Ellipse if you decide that MassDrop is the best choice for this - please somehow work out a way to avoid their fullfilment center.

Unless you enjoy the idea of your blood, sweat, and tears being banged up in transit due to insufficient/careless packing.

There is precedent for this. The recent Planck buy is being fulfilled directly by Ortholinear keyboards. Jack has been in constant communication with the buyers every step of the way, and I have more confidence in the outcome than I've ever had from a Massdrop buy.

[Elrick]

dante - I will be personally testing and mailing each one ordered directly through my order form.  They are also shipping in custom made styrofoam and a double-walled cardboard box.

BRILLIANT. please post it here when you'll start accepting full payments up front for your F77 keyboards  .

Love that you have full fitting packaging to go with your item because it's needed, especially when it starts traveling to distant convict settlements.

[Kola93]

What do you plan to use for the exterior coating or anodizing? Very ambitious project but very exciting at the same time.

[Elrick]

What do you plan to use for the exterior coating or anodizing? Very ambitious project but very exciting at the same time.

For me it's always ANODIZED but I'm willing to change my mind, if he shows us some other coatings able to last the entire lifetime of your average geekhacker.

[Cods]

I am concerned that I keep agreeing with Elrick, on more things than seem healthy. It's a new age when New South Welshmen and Queenslanders come to an accord so often.
Sigh.

Nevertheless, as a lover of the Model M buckling springs in both industrial and in SSK form, given the rare opportunity I see no choice but to sample the delights of Model F flippity flappity beamsprings in smaller than battleship formats.

Ellipse, I've signed up on your form for one of each, tell me where to entrust my money and will appreciate the packaging as these eventually wend their way to the Antipodes.

[Ellipse]

Kola the exterior will be powdercoated with paint in something close to the original "off white" or Industrial Gray options.  Anodizing may not happen or it may be a more costly option if you want it.  I don't know the anodizing options - if anyone ordering an F62 or F77 is thinking of the anodizing option and has any preferences please let me know.

The factory is doing some pre-assembly testing of the prototype parts to make sure they fit together - the top/bottom inner assembly, barrels/flippers, and mylar sheet placement (the clear mylar sheet prevents the PCB from touching the steel bottom inner assembly, which could cause a capacitance issue).  The foam and the case are not yet ready. 

The prototype cases should be completed in 1-2 weeks hopefully and I expect to receive the prototype within 3-4 weeks from now.  If a bunch of you hurry with sending payment in the first week after prototypes are fully tested, I may do them in two batches:  all orders placed in the first week or two, and then all orders in the remaining two weeks.  So the first batch may arrive by Christmas if we do that.  Though this would not happen if there is not a big enough order batch to place after the first two weeks.  I know there is a lot of hope to get these by Christmas

[ryahirv]

@Ellipse:

Probably a dumb question, but are the layouts and keycaps essentially identical to the originals?
Or is there a rendering of precisely what the 2 new models will look like?

Thanks!

[iamtootallforthis]

Kola the exterior will be powdercoated with paint in something close to the original "off white" or Industrial Gray options.  Anodizing may not happen or it may be a more costly option if you want it.  I don't know the anodizing options - if anyone ordering an F62 or F77 is thinking of the anodizing option and has any preferences please let me know.

The factory is doing some pre-assembly testing of the prototype parts to make sure they fit together - the top/bottom inner assembly, barrels/flippers, and mylar sheet placement (the clear mylar sheet prevents the PCB from touching the steel bottom inner assembly, which could cause a capacitance issue).  The foam and the case are not yet ready. 

The prototype cases should be completed in 1-2 weeks hopefully and I expect to receive the prototype within 3-4 weeks from now.  If a bunch of you hurry with sending payment in the first week after prototypes are fully tested, I may do them in two batches:  all orders placed in the first week or two, and then all orders in the remaining two weeks.  So the first batch may arrive by Christmas if we do that.  Though this would not happen if there is not a big enough order batch to place after the first two weeks.  I know there is a lot of hope to get these by Christmas

(Attachment Link)

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These are looking great! Really looking forward to getting my hands on one!

[SixtyLife]

Kola the exterior will be powdercoated with paint in something close to the original "off white" or Industrial Gray options.  Anodizing may not happen or it may be a more costly option if you want it.  I don't know the anodizing options - if anyone ordering an F62 or F77 is thinking of the anodizing option and has any preferences please let me know.

The factory is doing some pre-assembly testing of the prototype parts to make sure they fit together - the top/bottom inner assembly, barrels/flippers, and mylar sheet placement (the clear mylar sheet prevents the PCB from touching the steel bottom inner assembly, which could cause a capacitance issue).  The foam and the case are not yet ready. 

The prototype cases should be completed in 1-2 weeks hopefully and I expect to receive the prototype within 3-4 weeks from now.  If a bunch of you hurry with sending payment in the first week after prototypes are fully tested, I may do them in two batches:  all orders placed in the first week or two, and then all orders in the remaining two weeks.  So the first batch may arrive by Christmas if we do that.  Though this would not happen if there is not a big enough order batch to place after the first two weeks.  I know there is a lot of hope to get these by Christmas

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

oh ****... so psyched for this!!!

[Ellipse]

The layout options are the same as the original, or you can choose an option for a split right shift, which means one or two barrels just for that option are in a slightly different place.  This requires a separate top inner assembly.  You can also buy both top inner assembly pieces if you would like the option to someday switch between regular right shift and split right shift.

This means you could also use regular extra wide Enter, backspace, and shift keys or a vertical ISO style Enter key - these are all supported in an original Kishsaver/F77 and in these units.

[darkspider]

They will likely be aluminum with colors close to the original off white or Industrial powdercoated paint, black, or another color (special order).  I can also try to special order anodized/clear coat/non-powdercoated ones if you PM me ahead of time.  They may cost a little more.

When you think is/will be  the deadline to PM you for the special coloring order?

[Elrick]

The prototype cases should be completed in 1-2 weeks hopefully and I expect to receive the prototype within 3-4 weeks from now.  If a bunch of you hurry with sending payment in the first week after prototypes are fully tested, I may do them in two batches:  all orders placed in the first week or two, and then all orders in the remaining two weeks.  So the first batch may arrive by Christmas if we do that.  Though this would not happen if there is not a big enough order batch to place after the first two weeks.  I know there is a lot of hope to get these by Christmas

If you are worried that the order numbers won't be there due to individual tastes being so varied have no fear, I will buy anything you produce off the assembly line regardless of which colour is applied to the first batch of F77s.

This is the absolute FIRST production run and we here in Geekhack land know how valuable they will be as time moves on.  Just like the first rare editions of Korean Keyboards that are now unavailable to get, unless you're happy to hand over $1300USD as a minimum.

Your keyboards will eventually fetch that range of price quite easily due their rugged construction and being the first NEW Model F Capacitives produced in a very long time.  This keyboard shall out live me, so my kids and grand kids will appreciate what was done here in 2015 to resurrect a classic IBM keyboard, something that will be truly cherished.

[wyatt8740]

Any chance I could buy just a model F sized spring? I have a bad one on my current Model F and don't really like the kishaver form, but do need a new spring.

[ryahirv]

Probably a dumb question, but there won't be a way to have any arrow keys on the smaller model I'm assuming?

(wasn't sure if there might be a layered control scheme for that like HHKB or something?)

[ghostjuggernaut]

Probably a dumb question, but there won't be a way to have any arrow keys on the smaller model I'm assuming?

(wasn't sure if there might be a layered control scheme for that like HHKB or something?)

The xwhatsits controller allows for multiple layers, so you will be able to set it up in a fn layer if you want to.

[romevi]

Probably a dumb question, but there won't be a way to have any arrow keys on the smaller model I'm assuming?

(wasn't sure if there might be a layered control scheme for that like HHKB or something?)

The xwhatsits controller allows for multiple layers, so you will be able to set it up in a fn layer if you want to.

Wow. I honestly did not know that. I may consider the 62 instead of the 77 now.

[ghostjuggernaut]

Here's the thread on it.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58138.0

[ryahirv]

Probably a dumb question, but there won't be a way to have any arrow keys on the smaller model I'm assuming?

(wasn't sure if there might be a layered control scheme for that like HHKB or something?)

The xwhatsits controller allows for multiple layers, so you will be able to set it up in a fn layer if you want to.

Sensational news… Thank you!

Wow. I honestly did not know that. I may consider the 62 instead of the 77 now.

Yep - Me too - Although I think I will buy one of each so I can decide in person ultimately (and I want to support this SUPERB project - SO SO excited about this!)

[theginginator]

This group buy is looking better and better, still need to figure out which one I want to order.

[E TwentyNine]

The layout options are the same as the original, or you can choose an option for a split right shift, which means one or two barrels just for that option are in a slightly different place.  This requires a separate top inner assembly.  You can also buy both top inner assembly pieces if you would like the option to someday switch between regular right shift and split right shift.

I'm not understanding why this would need two separate top plates.  Aren't the barrel locations the same just which ones are populated differ?

[Melvang]

The layout options are the same as the original, or you can choose an option for a split right shift, which means one or two barrels just for that option are in a slightly different place.  This requires a separate top inner assembly.  You can also buy both top inner assembly pieces if you would like the option to someday switch between regular right shift and split right shift.

I'm not understanding why this would need two separate top plates.  Aren't the barrel locations the same just which ones are populated differ?

It has to do with the offset of where the barrels are.  With the usual split the one unit and the other would be backwards.

[E TwentyNine]

The layout options are the same as the original, or you can choose an option for a split right shift, which means one or two barrels just for that option are in a slightly different place.  This requires a separate top inner assembly.  You can also buy both top inner assembly pieces if you would like the option to someday switch between regular right shift and split right shift.

I'm not understanding why this would need two separate top plates.  Aren't the barrel locations the same just which ones are populated differ?

It has to do with the offset of where the barrels are.  With the usual split the one unit and the other would be backwards.

Got a pointer to a diagram/picture of the difference?

[Zaskar]

For the HHKB style shift/fn is the plan to still make it with a stepped caps lock keycap or by chance was unicomp able to do any bulk rate for the japanese sets keycap?

[Ellipse]

Unfortunately no group buy on the HHKB key, but you can buy a 3D printed one from Shapeways.  Not sure if anyone has tested one:  http://www.shapeways.com/product/YMFXWFRAK/ibm-model-m-keycap-1-75-non-stepped-v2

[Zaskar]

Unfortunately no group buy on the HHKB key, but you can buy a 3D printed one from Shapeways.  Not sure if anyone has tested one:  http://www.shapeways.com/product/YMFXWFRAK/ibm-model-m-keycap-1-75-non-stepped-v2

Oh thats cool!

Do you know if Unicomp still sells Japanese keycap sets in unprinted (or printed)? Didn't see it on their site but that might just be because its an english site.

[Ellipse]

I sent a support ticket a couple months ago and they said they no longer make JIS sets.

[darkspider]

Any chance I could buy just a model F sized spring? I have a bad one on my current Model F and don't really like the kishaver form, but do need a new spring.

Yes, you can. He said we can order any kinda extra parts that used in the boards' assembly.

[Vizir]

Is there enough space inside the f62 to fit a solenoid and driver PCB?

[Ellipse]

Vizir I do not believe so - can anyone confirm if they have been able to add a solenoid to their original Kishsaver F62?

[fanpeople]

Vizir I do not believe so - can anyone confirm if they have been able to add a solenoid to their original Kishsaver F62?

I can't confirm but I can provide some photos with measurements of the solenoid and driver if that helps

More

More

More

[Vizir]

Vizir I do not believe so - can anyone confirm if they have been able to add a solenoid to their original Kishsaver F62?

It had completely skipped my mind, and when your question didn't get a proper reply on DT, I thought I'd ask here.

Oh well.

[wyatt8740]

Yes, you can. He said we can order any kinda extra parts that used in the boards' assembly.

So what do I have to do to get one of these? I've never done a group buy or anything like that before.

On another note, why new kishavers? why not new SSK's with the Model F assembly? The bezel just about makes a kishaver the size of a Model M SSK, anyway.

[SixtyLife]

Yes, you can. He said we can order any kinda extra parts that used in the boards' assembly.

So what do I have to do to get one of these? I've never done a group buy or anything like that before.

On another note, why new kishavers? why not new SSK's with the Model F assembly? The bezel just about makes a kishaver the size of a Model M SSK, anyway.

a lot of people (including myself) love the 60% format and kishsaver is the only model f that has this. the F77 which is also part of this gb is pretty similar to the ssk anyways (only lacks the F row) so you could go for one of those.

[darkspider]

Yes, you can. He said we can order any kinda extra parts that used in the boards' assembly.

So what do I have to do to get one of these? I've never done a group buy or anything like that before.

This gb hasn't started yet. Ask ellipse if you are worried about the way to buy.

[Ellipse]

If you want one, you would sign up on the interest list in the first post, and then I will send you a link to the order form only after the prototypes have been fully tested and photographed.

[Ellipse]

Regarding black keys from Unicomp, a note from 0100010 over on DT:  Unicomp still has blank black sets, just missing Right Shift. Though with the HHKB-ish layout with this F62, custom order a set with an additional black caps lock key [and a 1u black key] and you'd be set.

[atlas3686]

Regarding black keys from Unicomp, a note from 0100010 over on DT:  Unicomp still has blank black sets, just missing Right Shift. Though with the HHKB-ish layout with this F62, custom order a set with an additional black caps lock key [and a 1u black key] and you'd be set.

That's great news, so to confirm we should order this separately ourselves?

[Ellipse]

Yes I would order it yourself if you want one black set before they run out of stock.  It seems like Unicomp does not intend to make more black unprinted key sets. 

I intend to order the key sets directly from Unicomp and have them factory installed on the keyboards in China for those who want me to, no extra charge for installation, but the black sets may no longer be in stock in a month.

For those who want key sets, would you prefer to order the extra keys for a complete 101 key set or would you just prefer the ~62 or ~77 keys only?  Maybe the set with fewer keys would be less expensive.  Unicomp currently charges $25 for the keys not including the space bar, $3 for the space bar, and $1.50 for each of the 4 required stabilizer inserts for the 2 shift, Enter, and backspace keys. 

If anyone knows someone at Unicomp and can negotiate a lower bulk price with them please let me know.  I asked support and they seemed not to be willing to do so.

[aznairjordan]

I would be down just for enough caps for the board  and not the full set.