[IC] BnB87: Gasket Mount TKL

[Lbibass]

no longer working with alf as of 5/2/19. Will have more info soon.
update: 4/8/19: paid for prototypes from Alf. Should be done in ~20 days?




Update: 4/4/19: I have received pricing from Alf. Right now, I am thinking about how I want to price this board. But expect it to be less than $400.


Oh yeah: And the prototype has been ordered. 



Update: 3/29/19

Still waiting to hear back from Alf.


Update: 3/23/19


I sent the files to Alf. Currently waiting for quotes on pricing.


Update: 3/2/19
So I am back again. I've made some minor changes (well not really, they are pretty major). As of right now, unless there are some major pushbacks, I am going to be limiting the options for this GB. It's a small one, at least for the US, so it makes sense to me at least that the fewer options the less chance of either me or the factory making a mistake in the orders. Right now, my plans are for a polycarbonate only GB. There will be a relatively small brass weight in the center.













Right now I am trying to make two decisions: Whether or not to have WKL blockers. In terms of aesthetics, WKL blockers are really nice. However, it restricts options for more layouts, like a 6.25u spacebar if people want it. Because of this, I am going to let people vote on what they would want. The link can be found in the following Strawpoll. https://www.strawpoll.me/17534211


In addition, I've heard some people say that they would want some cutouts in the plate, in the arrow key area, and underneath the WKL blocker area, if that is the most popular option. The Strawpoll is here. https://www.strawpoll.me/17534621


Like before, this is going to be produced by ALF Studio. The plate files will be open sourced. The PCB is alps and MX compatible, and it supports ISO.




PCB Specs:
     MX and Alps compatible. RGB underglow. Split backspace, split right shift, and ISO compatible. Tsangan (aka 7u) bottom row and a standard ansi, (6.25u spacebar) bottom row. It uses mid mount USB Type-C. QMK Compatible.


Case Specs: Gasket mount, like the GSKT-00/356Mini/E6.5. The gasket wraps around the switches, and the gasket rests on protrusions in the case. The top case sandwiches the plate and the bottom half together, with the gasket in between the plate and the bottom housing. To avoid stripping of the polycarbonate case, and for general aesthetics, the board will use inserts for the screws.




RENDERS (done by the wonderful Tesletron):











If you have any questions, please ask them!



Old IC here, with some old rendersHey all! This is Lbibass here, and I am happy to announce a new keyboard that I have been working on for the last couple of weeks. The BnB87.




This is a gasket mount TKL manufactured by ALF and designed by me. It uses a gasket mount similar to what the 356mini used, with a gasket wrapping around the switches, and the gasket resting on protrusions in the bottom case. It will use a 6.6º angle. These BEAUTIFUL renders are by Tesletron.



Options for plates will include half plates and full plates. Still deciding on layout support and the material, but for sure the PCB will support a 7u spacebar. It has options for split backspace and split right shift, in addition to the standard 7u layout.
I am still deciding on whether or not to support 6.25u layouts, as it would compromise the plate. If interest is high enough, then I will add an option in the GB for a 6.25+7u spacebar plate. You can vote on what to have here.


In addition, I am still unsure as to what connection will be used, either Mini-USB or USB Type-C. You can vote for that here.

Right now I have no plans for ISO. Sorry Jae! I feel like it compromises the PCB too much, and right now there are no plans to launch in the UK. That could change if I feel enough people are interested, and a proxy steps forward.

I am also planning on having Alps support, for those who enjoy that. Right now I am planning to only support 7u Alps layouts, as that is the most common.

In terms of case material, the two options I am planning on having produced are Polycarbonate and your regular old aluminum, with a brass weight. On the polycarbonate model, there will be brass screw in inserts, so no need to worry about stripping your brand new case. Thanks for reading, and down below I have a link to a bunch of renders with different keysets, also done by Tesletron.

PRICE AND RELEASE DATE TBD.

EDIT: 12/11/18: The PCB has been decided on, and it will use USB Type-C. Said USB port will also be mid-mount for better durability.


EDIT: 12/12/18: Added another poll that you can vote on for ISO/ANSI options for the PCB and the plate. Vote with this link.


RENDERS HERE
https://imgur.com/gallery/NhS7rOW

[dimo]

gasket alps interest

[Remsky]

Just a follow-up with my response from keebtalk, I really think you should go with a bottom side USB port for the pcb. Hiney is going to introduce a model like that eventually anyway, I don't think it would be a bad idea.

[wixxzblu]

Id love to see some AEK 6.5u support on the alps plate/pcb 

edit: handles are underrated  )

[Lbibass]

Just a follow-up with my response from keebtalk, I really think you should go with a bottom side USB port for the pcb. Hiney is going to introduce a model like that eventually anyway, I don't think it would be a bad idea.

That might be something that I will look at in the future, however, it will require a change to the aesthetics of the bottom, as I would need to lower the bottom chamfer to cover for the lowered usb port.

[Lbibass]

Id love to see some AEK 6.5u support on the alps plate/pcb 

edit: handles are underrated  )

What do you mean by handles? And I would rather not add 6.5u spacebar support, mainly because I think it could undercut sales of the UEK, another board that I am working on currently. I have been working on that board for longer than I have on the BnB87, and would not want to cause issues with that group buy.

[wixxzblu]

Id love to see some AEK 6.5u support on the alps plate/pcb 

edit: handles are underrated  )

What do you mean by handles? And I would rather not add 6.5u spacebar support, mainly because I think it could undercut sales of the UEK, another board that I am working on currently. I have been working on that board for longer than I have on the BnB87, and would not want to cause issues with that group buy.

handles on the sides in some form, so its easier to lift.
Like this for example:

[Lbibass]

Id love to see some AEK 6.5u support on the alps plate/pcb 

edit: handles are underrated  )

What do you mean by handles? And I would rather not add 6.5u spacebar support, mainly because I think it could undercut sales of the UEK, another board that I am working on currently. I have been working on that board for longer than I have on the BnB87, and would not want to cause issues with that group buy.

handles on the sides in some form, so its easier to lift.
Like this for example:

Oh, those. Unfortunately, with the current design, that is not possible due to the screw placement, unless I do something like the new fullsize from TX. I would rather not have to do something like that.

[bthezebra]

Definitely interested in this gasket wave hopefully this board will be WKL with non removable blockers.

[Lbibass]

Definitely interested in this gasket wave hopefully this board will be WKL with non removable blockers.

That's something I'm working on right now! No worries there!

[jan]

I'm interested in the polycarbonate version. 

[Lbibass]

I'm interested in the polycarbonate version. 

Glad to hear it! I am excited to see which way this goes.

[mkarlsson]

Looks good. I would be interested in a PC one with PC plate but only if ISO is offered.

[Lbibass]

Looks good. I would be interested in a PC one with PC plate but only if ISO is offered.

Well, I did announce that it would not be ISO, and that it would not be for sale in countries other than the US and China, unless a proxy would like to step forward.

[o3okevin]

Interested in a polycarbonate case & plate! Would this be open to Canada too through the US buy?

[Lbibass]

Interested in a polycarbonate case & plate! Would this be open to Canada too through the US buy?

Perhaps! So long as I can drop it off to USPS, and they can deliver to you, it works for me.

[airlangga07]

I am in for polycarb case+plate!

[ramnes]

If you can ship to Canada via USPS, then you can ship to pretty much anywhere in the world. Also, UK is not the only country that uses ISO, the whole Europe does. 

[mkarlsson]

Looks good. I would be interested in a PC one with PC plate but only if ISO is offered.

Well, I did announce that it would not be ISO, and that it would not be for sale in countries other than the US and China, unless a proxy would like to step forward.

Well, you said that it could change depending on the interest. That is what I am doing, showing my interest.

[Lbibass]

Looks good. I would be interested in a PC one with PC plate but only if ISO is offered.

Well, I did announce that it would not be ISO, and that it would not be for sale in countries other than the US and China, unless a proxy would like to step forward.

Well, you said that it could change depending on the interest. That is what I am doing, showing my interest.

Show Image

That is true. I will add another poll on whether or not to include ISO on the PCB, and I will open source the plates so people can have their own made.

[Allo]

I like it, but I do find the wider side bezels to be an odd choice. I think it would look a lot nicer if the side bezels were brought in to match the top and bottom, or the top bezel was extended to match the sides.

[Lbibass]

I like it, but I do find the wider side bezels to be an odd choice. I think it would look a lot nicer if the side bezels were brought in to match the top and bottom, or the top bezel was extended to match the sides.

Unfortunately that isn't really possible as of right now, because it would require some changes that are not possible as of right now. In a bit, once the PCB is finished, I might be able to redesign it to have even bezels. As of right now however, my plans are to stick with the current case design. I may change the weight to be easier to machine however.

[Acereconkeys]

Gasket tkl with alps support potentially color me interested. Will be looking forward to seeing how prototype goes.

[mike52787]

Single layout plate and gasket mount both have me super interested. might have to get in on this one.

[Sylanthra]

Can you explain what gasket mounted means. I've never heard of that.

[futurecrime]

This looks like one to watch for sure. I'm interested.

[Jkush463]

gaskets eh

[Lbibass]

Can you explain what gasket mounted means. I've never heard of that.

Gasket mount basically uses a piece, or different pieces, of soft rubber to provide more flex and provide acoustic benefits to the user. It's pretty freaking dope.

[Lbibass]

gaskets eh

yup.

[vtachkov]

I'd love to have a pc tkl. Would the pcb support rgb underglow or would I have to get a c3 pcb if I wanted that?

[Lbibass]

I'd love to have a pc tkl. Would the pcb support rgb underglow or would I have to get a c3 pcb if I wanted that?

PCB will have 18 RGB underglow LEDS.


I forgot to mention that the PCB will be QMK compatible, of course .

[vtachkov]

I'd love to have a pc tkl. Would the pcb support rgb underglow or would I have to get a c3 pcb if I wanted that?

PCB will have 18 RGB underglow LEDS.


I forgot to mention that the PCB will be QMK compatible, of course .

Beautiful, count me in

[dondongler]

Radical, definitely interested in gasket tkl with alps support.

[appaboy]

im interested

[Vigrith]

WKL.

[mrkantz]

Definitely in for a pc with fixed 7u

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[AlcoholEnthusiast]

The PC one looks extremely clean. Excited to watch this progress.

[upas]

I would really like 6.25U space support. I'd even be willing to get my own plate made, just need the PCB to support it.

[Lbibass]

I would really like 6.25U space support. I'd even be willing to get my own plate made, just need the PCB to support it.

PCB should support 6.25u.

[switchnollie]

Will there be an option for 2u backspace?

I always felt the 2x 1u there was a smaller keyboard thing.

[DocNoc]

Really interested in this! Any news or updates?

[oldcat]

Looks amazing!

[Darknight00z]

What material is the rubber gasket? Nitrile rubber, silicone or something else? If you don't know the english just type the chinese and we can find out.

[Lbibass]

Will there be an option for 2u backspace?

I always felt the 2x 1u there was a smaller keyboard thing.

Yup! It supports standard ANSI, not just HHKB.

[Lbibass]

What material is the rubber gasket? Nitrile rubber, silicone or something else? If you don't know the english just type the chinese and we can find out.

Once I get some prototypes in, I will experiment with different gaskets to see what works best.

[mellen]

in for pc w/ brass plate, oh just realized its not 2u backspace, would def want that

[Lbibass]

in for pc w/ brass plate, oh just realized its not 2u backspace, would def want that

It has support for 2u backspace. Those are just renders. http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/47b91f87a09309ea1cdfe545e948efd8


these are the layouts the pcb supports. The Top half will be WKL only. ANSI only plates, but the files will be public, so you can make your own plate if you want.

[Lbibass]

I've just updated the IC as I come closer to finalizing the design.

[Proer47]

I think i'm in love. Planning for this to be my first TKL as well as first polycarb. Keep up the great work! captured my interests for sure.

[mellen]

Why the choice of a small brass weight instead of a large one?

[oldcat]

Hey Lbibass,

I am using the white mode to read, and some texts have some issues. (guess its intentional)

[Nigolski]

dope

[Lbibass]

Hey Lbibass,

I am using the white mode to read, and some texts have some issues. (guess its intentional)

yeah, that's the spoiler probably. That's the old IC. The text up top is the revised IC.

[Lbibass]

Why the choice of a small brass weight instead of a large one?

Mainly because I prefer the aesthetics of a smaller weight. Plus, I would rather the cost be a little bit lower. And the weight is already at 2.94 pounds, without a PCB, caps, or switches. Or any screws, for that matter. There comes a point where a board is just too heavy, and I would like to avoid that.

[mellen]

what about no cutouts, id rather see brass than pcb

[balduran85]

what about no cutouts, id rather see brass than pcb

I second this. Unless the pcb design is aesthetically superior to the brass plate, which often is not.

[oldcat]

what about no cutouts, id rather see brass than pcb

I second this. Unless the pcb design is aesthetically superior to the brass plate, which often is not.

It's possible

[Lbibass]

what about no cutouts, id rather see brass than pcb

Makes sense! I forgot to add that as an option in the strawpoll. 

[KorbenDallas]

I miss understood the cutouts strawpoll. I'd rather see brass in those areas as your renders show rather than pcb as well!

[Lbibass]

I miss understood the cutouts strawpoll. I'd rather see brass in those areas as your renders show rather than pcb as well!

yeah, I forgot that option in the strawpoll.


I think that's the best thing to go with right now. The pcb isn't fantastic, and a lot of traces run straight above the arrow keys. Hence, a solid brass plate in those areas is gonna be the best bet.

[Water lee]

Nice pc case !

Render looks awesome

[Lbibass]

Nice pc case !

Render looks awesome

Thanks! I only did the top two renders, Tesletron did the ones you see below those two. He's much better at renders than I am.

[Lbibass]

dope

Thanks!

[vicissitude]

PC case is really attractive.
Love it.

[Lbibass]

PC case is really attractive.
Love it.

Thanks!

[Remsky]

nice

[Lbibass]

nice

Glad to hear you like it, Remsky!

[Windeh]

nice

Glad to hear you like it, Remsky!

am jealous

[reidd]

am interest

edit: Any chance for PVD coatings for the plate (pref. silver, black?)

[bunanapeel]

I would totally join the GB when it comes around.  This combines two types of cases that I want to try into one.  A PC case and a gasket mount case.  I am really excited for this one. 

[Lbibass]

am interest

edit: Any chance for PVD coatings for the plate (pref. silver, black?)

Sorry for missing this! Right now my plans are to have one option, which is sandblasted brass. That way, fulfillment will be significantly easier. I want to minimize the opportunity for mistakes in fulfillment on my part.

[Lbibass]

I would totally join the GB when it comes around.  This combines two types of cases that I want to try into one.  A PC case and a gasket mount case.  I am really excited for this one. 

Glad to hear it!

[Jurka]

Nice pc case !

Render looks awesome

Thanks! I only did the top two renders, Tesletron did the ones you see below those two. He's much better at renders than I am.

Correct me if I am mistaken but the PC case will have kind of a milky hue just like the E6.5 does, right? The renders show it to be clearer than it actually will be, right?

[Lbibass]

Nice pc case !

Render looks awesome

Thanks! I only did the top two renders, Tesletron did the ones you see below those two. He's much better at renders than I am.

Correct me if I am mistaken but the PC case will have kind of a milky hue just like the E6.5 does, right? The renders show it to be clearer than it actually will be, right?

Yup, it should be similar in aesthetics to the e6.5!

[Damage]

Definite interest here.

[Damage]

[Dupe removed. Doh!]

[Lumenoctis]

Hi there! Extremely new to this forum so excuse me if I'm not following some sort of procedure, but I'm definitely interested in this case. Would you be supplying the PCB as well? I was thinking about purchasing Hineybush's h87alps board but if you're already supplying the PCB, I guess I wouldn't need to!

[Lbibass]

Hi there! Extremely new to this forum so excuse me if I'm not following some sort of procedure, but I'm definitely interested in this case. Would you be supplying the PCB as well? I was thinking about purchasing Hineybush's h87alps board but if you're already supplying the PCB, I guess I wouldn't need to!

You're all good! ALF will be supplying the PCB for this board. It's mid mounted USB-C. There's a lot of other cool features in this PCB too, like an SMD mounted RGB caps lock LED. Expect the PCB outline to be open sourced too, if not the entire PCB. Unfortunately I'm not the designer of the PCB, so I don't know if it'll be possible to open source all of the PCB.
 

[mrboli]

For cutouts, you need to put no cutouts as option!

[Lbibass]

For cutouts, you need to put no cutouts as option!

Yup, that was a mistake. I have decided to go with no cutouts. I prefer the aesthetic of the brass underneath the polycarbonate than the PCB.

[Jurka]

For cutouts, you need to put no cutouts as option!

Yup, that was a mistake. I have decided to go with no cutouts. I prefer the aesthetic of the brass underneath the polycarbonate than the PCB.

Great choice imo. Also, I've read about polycarb finishes in the THINK6.5 interest check thread. Any thoughts about possibilities?

[Mr.Elli0t]

The wait is killing me!!! Those renders are exactly how I want it and this is one of 2 that I definitely want 

[sadmachine]

The space between Esc and F1 appears noticeably wider than the other F row breaks, as I see often in renders. Will this be the same on the physical case?

[TuCZnak]

The space between Esc and F1 appears noticeably wider than the other F row breaks, as I see often in renders. Will this be the same on the physical case?

That is the standard layout, F1 directly over 2 with 1u between Esc and F1 and then 0,5u between F blocks themselves.

[tentboy]

I think i'd join this 

[sadmachine]

The space between Esc and F1 appears noticeably wider than the other F row breaks, as I see often in renders. Will this be the same on the physical case?

That is the standard layout, F1 directly over 2 with 1u between Esc and F1 and then 0,5u between F blocks themselves.

Thanks for confirming for this noob. 

[h0tdog]

I'm probably down

[Bahm78]

Oh very interesting

[Mr.Elli0t]

Is it normal for it to take this long for pricing  the wait is deadly to me

[ramnes]

interested

[Lbibass]

Is it normal for it to take this long for pricing  the wait is deadly to me

Hey, sorry about that! I missed this. Anyways, I updated the post. Pricing updates. Still working everything out, including the possibility of custom boxes. pricing is still up in the air.

[Lbibass]

interested

Glad to hear it!

[clik_clak]

Is it normal for it to take this long for pricing  the wait is deadly to me

Hey, sorry about that! I missed this. Anyways, I updated the post. Pricing updates. Still working everything out, including the possibility of custom boxes. pricing is still up in the air.

With how poorly ALF boxes have gone in the past (ie. month long delays to fix the boxes for the Renova X3, please don't do custom boxes.

If anything I've learned from the ALF GB's I've participated in, keep it as simple as possible expect MASSIVE delays and expect a product that won't fully meet your expectations (at least on the first try).

[Lbibass]

Is it normal for it to take this long for pricing  the wait is deadly to me

Hey, sorry about that! I missed this. Anyways, I updated the post. Pricing updates. Still working everything out, including the possibility of custom boxes. pricing is still up in the air.

With how poorly ALF boxes have gone in the past (ie. month long delays to fix the boxes for the Renova X3, please don't do custom boxes.

If anything I've learned from the ALF GB's I've participated in, keep it as simple as possible expect MASSIVE delays and expect a product that won't fully meet your expectations (at least on the first try).

Thanks for letting me know about that. Right now, ALF seems to have learned a lot, and has moved to a new location too. I'd like to see how he'll do this time.

[Mr.Elli0t]

Is it normal for it to take this long for pricing  the wait is deadly to me

Hey, sorry about that! I missed this. Anyways, I updated the post. Pricing updates. Still working everything out, including the possibility of custom boxes. pricing is still up in the air.

Thanks Lbibass! Super excited for the keeb! Save one for me !

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk

[Harnak]

Glad that you got pricing info from Alf! Super excited for this board, really digging your designs! <3

[Lbibass]

Glad that you got pricing info from Alf! Super excited for this board, really digging your designs! <3

Thanks for the encouragement! Hopefully some of my designs should start to move faster than the UEK and this one.

[wt5now]

What is the basic plate? Brass? Aluminum? PC? Are there some options?

[Lbibass]

What is the basic plate? Brass? Aluminum? PC? Are there some options?

The basic plate is Brass. There won't be a whole lot of options. Mainly just MX/alps, and a halfplate or a full plate for MX.

[kookiemunstur]

This looks great, I'm deciding between this and the KBD8X MKII but leaning more towards this due to gasket mount, Would you also do a matching numpad in the future?

[ReDsNoTDeAd]

Man, between this and the kbd8x is like deciding between a Corolla and a WRX STI

[Lbibass]

This looks great, I'm deciding between this and the KBD8X MKII but leaning more towards this due to gasket mount, Would you also do a matching numpad in the future?

Honestly, I probably would! I would probably also do a 60% with the same sort of design language and features.

[Lbibass]

Man, between this and the kbd8x is like deciding between a Corolla and a WRX STI

Well, which one is which?  )

[mkarlsson]

Man, between this and the kbd8x is like deciding between a Corolla and a WRX STI

Apart from the fact that this a gasket mount setup, 8X is a very good product for the price it has.

[Lbibass]

Man, between this and the kbd8x is like deciding between a Corolla and a WRX STI

Apart from the fact that this a gasket mount setup, 8X is a very good product for the price it has.

Oh yeah, the 8x is an incredible board. Ai03's designs and pcbs are fantastic.

[ReDsNoTDeAd]

Any news for the good people of geekhack? I'm Jonesin' for a proper alps TKL

[Lbibass]

Any news for the good people of geekhack? I'm Jonesin' for a proper alps TKL

Not yet. Still waiting for the prototypes to be finished.

[Solotov]

Can’t wait to see the prototype!

[Mr.Elli0t]

Where is the prototype!!!  I'm so excited  for this, been holding off on purchasing any other keeb so I can get this one 

[Lbibass]

Where is the prototype!!!  I'm so excited  for this, been holding off on purchasing any other keeb so I can get this one 

With the current situation and drama at Alf, I've decided to find a new factory.


This will be put on hold and I will soon lock the thread until I can find a new factory.

[mkarlsson]

Where is the prototype!!!  I'm so excited  for this, been holding off on purchasing any other keeb so I can get this one 

With the current situation and drama at Alf, I've decided to find a new factory.


This will be put on hold and I will soon lock the thread until I can find a new factory.

Seems that Matrixlab is offering their servises to designers, maybe it’s worth trying

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=100437.0

[Solotov]

Where is the prototype!!!  I'm so excited  for this, been holding off on purchasing any other keeb so I can get this one 

With the current situation and drama at Alf, I've decided to find a new factory.


This will be put on hold and I will soon lock the thread until I can find a new factory.

Wow that's ****ed up. At least, I hope you can refund your prototype 

[Lbibass]

Where is the prototype!!!  I'm so excited  for this, been holding off on purchasing any other keeb so I can get this one 

With the current situation and drama at Alf, I've decided to find a new factory.


This will be put on hold and I will soon lock the thread until I can find a new factory.

Wow that's ****ed up. At least, I hope you can refund your prototype 

I've gotten a refund. Yeah, now that Alf is officially shutting down, I need to start looking around. Hopefully I will find something soon.