Reprogramming the TE?

[Architect]

Anybody have an idea how to reprogram the TE, other than using the DIPs? I imagine they're pretty busy so it'll take a while to get back to me, and/or finish writing the programming software for doing the remapping. At one point they said there was some custom software for that.

If you select the Apple DIP it seems like it puts the option on the left and control on the right, which the Kinesis does and drive me up the wall. I want a symmetric keyboard which is why I got the 109, I can have shift/command/option/control on both sides.

Ordering the blanks makes it a little challenging to sort out at first ...

[sordna]

Did any paperwork or CD come with the keyboard that might say something?

[Input Nirvana]

On the Kinesis, there are "empty spaces" in the matrix. I want to know if it is reasonably possible to fill those spaces with (ie: another Alt/Opt, Ctrl for Mac) and add physical keys. I't doesn't bother me, but I can easily understand the need/frustration of wanting/needing those keys in those locations.

[Architect]

Did any paperwork or CD come with the keyboard that might say something?

Just a invoice

On the Kinesis, there are "empty spaces" in the matrix.

Don't know, I'm not into hacking with these. The TE has the symmetric layout with three control keys possible per side, which I use all the time on the mac (command, option and control).

I've more or less adjusted to it, the only problem I have still coming from the Kinesis to the Truly Ergonomic is the placement of the Shift key, I keep expecting it to be the Command which is right under it, and vice-versa.

Otherwise the thumb sits perfectly near the space and the return & delete in the middle. The Kindesis also places the space, enter and backspace under the thumb, but it's lacking for control keys as I said (only one option and one control). I'm not used to the mouse cursor keys yet, two sets, but I'm really looking forward to using those. As a software developer I have to move around using those extensively and hate how much conventional keyboards make you move your hand, and just have the little four way. The Kinesis also has a good solution to this.

The media keys on the Mac generally work, I can verify the volume and play, stop pause keys. The brightness and Apple eject keys don't seem to be working in the default firmware programming.

Originally I thought I wouldn't use the palm rest but it's nice and I'm keeping it on there. Plus the cover is molded for the rest.

[Input Nirvana]

Architect:

-It appears that the built in wristrest is a must, and it seems very nice. But I rest my hands on my Kinesis...lazy dog.
-The empty matrix spaces on a Kinesis are potentially helpful due to the ability of adding/hacking additional keys since there is so much case. The TE (or any other keyboard) isn't really a good candidate since there is no room for additional switches.
-I also like the 2 movement clusters, they seem like they could be a powerful layout. I questioned someone else about them, I'm curious how it works for people.
-So with thumbs, besides the space bars, you hit the 2 lowest keys in the vertical center row? Not just the key between the space bars?

[Gerk]

Their site still makes a reference to "simple software" to customize, but I think you are right in that they are busy getting them all out the door.  If you hear anything back from them on that regard it would be good to know what's up with the software.

[cbf123]

It's not hardware reprogramming, but you can always just reprogram the OS to interpret the various scancodes to mean whatever you like.  For X users I worked out the xmodmap commands to swap ctrl-l and shift-l, turn ctrl-r into shift-r, and turn shift-r into "enter".  The only caveat is that if you do it on the fly with vmware running then they revert back when you enter the vm.  Oops.

I don't have a lot of spare time, otherwise I'd be digging into the SDK for the mcu.  The key is whether we can get a dump of the original firmware to use in case we screw things up.  Should be possible to write a program to dump the state of all the input pins whenever something changes, then just hit all the keys on the keyboard.  That should be enough to reverse-engineer the hardware layout and change the physical key to scancode mapping.

[Gerk]

I did some simple remapping in OSX with KeyRemap4MacBook and all have worked fine so far .. remapped modifiers, shift, control with no issues.  Some keys don't come up with any keycodes currently but not sure if that's something I've not setup correctly or if it's an issue with the OSX or the board itself.  No left space bar or 3 of the 4 blank keys on my 109.

[Draconian]

I ordered the 105 International layout.


Does anyone have any idea what keyboard layout to select in Windows so that all the keys match their markings?

I'm in the UK and have selected United Kingdom but the 2@ key displays " when shifted.

What software do you recommend to remap keys under Windows. Also how do you find out the keycodes that I want to assign to each key? I assume there's software for this too?

[Rajagra]

I ordered the 105 International layout.
Does anyone have any idea what keyboard layout to select in Windows so that all the keys match their markings?
I'm in the UK and have selected United Kingdom but the 2@ key displays " when shifted.
What software do you recommend to remap keys under Windows. Also how do you find out the keycodes that I want to assign to each key? I assume there's software for this too?

A U.S. format will be right apart from the extra key between T and Y acting as an extra backslash key.
U.S. International will let you type £, but has annoying dead keys. Try the layout in this post instead.
I remap keys using KeyTweak, and check keycodes using Aqua's KeyTest.

Edit> As an alternative to a U.S. layout, I just remembered I made a suitable layout here.

[sordna]

Hmm, a user is posting some frustrated commends due to no support about reprogramming the keyboard:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Truly-Ergonomic-Ltd/127337953964280

The top wall post has 8 comments currently, I suspect some of these comments will be deleted soon.

EDIT: Nope, TE actually responded saying an installation guide will be available very soon. Still, the user is right, since they had PLENTY of time to produce simple documentation and even software due to the manufacturing delays, why didn't they have either of these ready before shipping?

[hoggy]

Upto 16 comments now.  Bless.  I agree with sordna - give it a few days and they'll be gone.

[Input Nirvana]

For all the pleasantly positive feedback on the TE keyboard, it would have been so nice if there was some kick ass documentation, or website instructions/pdf/download/smoke signal....anything. Crazy.

At least the damn things shipped and most people seem mostly pleased. But I'm not understanding the reluctance I've read of people not wanting to remap?

The guy is a dingbat, he could get people eating out of his hands now with a strong follow up. It's about PEOPLE, not keyboards.

[shrap]

Maybe if he waits long enough, the community will step in and create it for him. It's not a terrible strategy.

[sordna]

Upto 16 comments now.  Bless.  I agree with sordna - give it a few days and they'll be gone.

Comments went to 18 but last one got deleted ... IIRC this user Loren had posted yesterday that while in outlook he was getting periodic keypresses without touching the keyboard, not sure if it's a real issue or not, but it's deleted this morning (either by TE or the user himself, can't know for sure).

[Gerk]

I've actually done almost all of the remapping I need to do without their tools. Everything but the left space. I'll post a howto later tonight, but will only be helpful to OSX users and probably more helpful to others with the model 109 layout than anyone.

[xsar]

using dvorak I will have to do some remapping of some keys, especially the z key, which is currently positioned where the forward slash is on the qwerty board, instead of the bottom right (apostroph on the qwerty board), where it's supposed to be.

I will post my final autohotkey remapping, when I'm happy with the setup, initial problems seem to be the placement of the shift and the back space key, other than that i'm quite happy after the first impression

[CeeSA]

http://www.trulyergonomic.com/TrulyErgonomic-Installation_QuickStartGuide.pdf

Keycodes are up

[Architect]

Now that I have the keyboard I have to say the programming on this keyboard is a little weird. The odd language usage in the manual is beginning to get to me too, "Please consider that the TECK is properly designed, and therefore different from other keyboards"?? Anyhow, I have a blank 109 which made it a challenge to figure out how to use. But the weird thing is that all the 109 DIP key causes is the delete in the center to turn to an international key. So I put it back to 105 to get my delete back (not that I use it). Then on OS X they say to set to JIS in system preferences for the keyboard type if you have a 109, but that gives me a weird Japanese keyboard.

To be fair I guess I'm using a 109 as a ANSI layout, so it's my business how I want to set it up ...  anyhow with the published manual they say the reprogramming software is being worked on and forthcoming (heard that before, wait until summer ...)

[boli]

The odd language usage in the manual is beginning to get to me too, "Please consider that the TECK is properly designed, and therefore different from other keyboards"?? )

That sentence made me chuckle, as there is some truth to it. Almost every keyboard has staggered rows, which are an anachronistic relict from the typewriter era, and IMHO totally useless or even harmful nowadays. And yet even software keyboards on smart phones use it. Ugh! Sorry this thing gets me going.

[Gerk]

Now that I have the keyboard I have to say the programming on this keyboard is a little weird. The odd language usage in the manual is beginning to get to me too, "Please consider that the TECK is properly designed, and therefore different from other keyboards"?? Anyhow, I have a blank 109 which made it a challenge to figure out how to use. But the weird thing is that all the 109 DIP key causes is the delete in the center to turn to an international key. So I put it back to 105 to get my delete back (not that I use it). Then on OS X they say to set to JIS in system preferences for the keyboard type if you have a 109, but that gives me a weird Japanese keyboard.

To be fair I guess I'm using a 109 as a ANSI layout, so it's my business how I want to set it up ...  anyhow with the published manual they say the reprogramming software is being worked on and forthcoming (heard that before, wait until summer ...)

Indeed.  The instructions are flat out wrong in several places.  For example it tells you to set the DIP switch and plug it in, then when the keyboard setup assistant comes up to just press esc to cancel it.  Sadly this doesn't work, you can't cancel that part of things and still get to the point of being able to select the keyboard type.  Pressing esc does nothing except beep at you, closing the setup assistant window stops the setup assistant, which then means you cannot select the keyboard type.  You have to press the keys it asks you to press, and when you do it doesn't work because it doesn't see the '" key as a valid choice, even though it is the one to the left of the right shift key.  The only way I've found for getting past this point is to press the /? key (which is the normal key that would be there on an ANSI layout).

So moving on to some other things ...

No matter what layout I select and use the numpad lock doesn't work for me at all.  The caps lock does work fine though.

Keycodes:  This is where things go awry big time for me.  The key codes supplied in the PDF document are wrong.  Even when I have the appropriate DIP switches selected and have chosen the JIS layout (which is wonky no matter what my input language is) most of the "international" keys (as described in that document) don't register key codes at all.  When using the debugging method with KeyRemap4MacBook all I get from them is 0xFF (255).  From all of them.  I cannot even select them to remap them at all.

This is all I get when using the  JIS layout as described in the manual when I press the top left, bottom left, and bottom right international keys

Code: [Select]

kernel[0]: KeyRemap4MacBook --Debug-- KeyboardEventCallback [ caught]: eventType 10, flags 0x80000000, key  255, kbdType  42, repeat = 0
kernel[0]: KeyRemap4MacBook --Debug-- KeyboardEventCallback [sending]: eventType 10, flags 0x00000000, key  255, kbdType  42, repeat = 0
kernel[0]: KeyRemap4MacBook --Debug-- KeyboardEventCallback [ caught]: eventType 11, flags 0x80000000, key  255, kbdType  42, repeat = 0
kernel[0]: KeyRemap4MacBook --Debug-- KeyboardEventCallback [sending]: eventType 11, flags 0x00000000, key  255, kbdType  42, repeat = 0

Also as pointed out the keys as printed on the keycaps do not line up with the output for several of the keys, which I was assured when I purchased the 109 would not be an issue, I was told that this was strictly something governed by the language choice in OSX.

[Gerk]

Also I just verified that changing the input source (language) does nothing to correct any of the issues with the key layout.  I suspect we are going to be stuck either using my workarounds (which means no left space bar as an alternate) or waiting for TE to provide proper software/drivers for OSX.

[BartVB]

The numlock thing on OSX appears to be a universal problem on OSX :/ Can't use the directional keys on the numpad area on my other keyboards.

Btw I suspect that either your TE is wonky or keyremap4macbook only understands the MacBook key codes? ControllerMate and xev properly detect the extra keys on my TE as International[1-6]

[Gerk]

The numlock thing on OSX appears to be a universal problem on OSX :/ Can't use the directional keys on the numpad area on my other keyboards.

Btw I suspect that either your TE is wonky or keyremap4macbook only understands the MacBook key codes? ControllerMate and xev properly detect the extra keys on my TE as International[1-6]

What keyboard layout are you using (ANSI/ISO/JIS)?

No, the keymap4macbook recognizes all key codes, it's just an unfortunate name they have.  I don't have time to check it now, but I do have X11 and xev so I will check with that when I can.

[BartVB]

I'm using 109 with ANSI, JIS only makes sense if you bought the keyboard for the actual Asian layout possibilities which it is marketed at. But most people here just use it for the extra remapping opportunities.

[Gerk]

Ok that's the same thing I'm doing here then.  I'm going to have to try unloading all of my kr4m (I'm tired of typing that whole name!) and PCKeyboardHack and try it again.  I'm wondering if I don't have a wonky one ... because I'm sure I tried with xev right off the bat and got no key codes from those keys.  I'll report back once I have time to test, not likely to be today!

[Architect]

Gerk, your observations above are exactly what I've seen. I have TWO blank 109's and I'm seeing the same on both of them. The International keys (center, far lower left and right) don't register in the KeyDump utility for KeyRemap4MacBook utility. I don't think you have a wonky keyboard. My suspicion is that the loaded firmware doesn't have all the options worked out yet.

AIIiiiiieeeeee, I just found another oddity! On one keyboard on a macbook pro with thunderbolt display, the media eject doesn't work. On the other, which is on a Mac Pro it DOES work. What the hell .... I don't know what to make of that.

[Gerk]

Gerk, your observations above are exactly what I've seen. I have TWO blank 109's and I'm seeing the same on both of them. The International keys (center, far lower left and right) don't register in the KeyDump utility for KeyRemap4MacBook utility. I don't think you have a wonky keyboard. My suspicion is that the loaded firmware doesn't have all the options worked out yet.

AIIiiiiieeeeee, I just found another oddity! On one keyboard on a macbook pro with thunderbolt display, the media eject doesn't work. On the other, which is on a Mac Pro it DOES work. What the hell .... I don't know what to make of that.

That is probably just how the machine handles the F row by default, I've seen that before with other boards.  It worked ok for me (I think) on both a mac pro and a macbook pro.

[Rajagra]

I've downloaded the controller data sheet and development kit from http://www.megawin.com.tw/megawin_EN/ProductShow.asp?ID=175
If it comes to the worst, it may be possible to copy/modify/reprogram the firmware or data area to change the layout.

[Architect]

That is probably just how the machine handles the F row by default, I've seen that before with other boards.  It worked ok for me (I think) on both a mac pro and a macbook pro.

I'll be durned, you're right the eject on the macbook pro built in keyboard doesn't work either. I didn't change anything, maybe there's a setting in the sys prefs that got bunged. Thanks -

I've downloaded the controller data sheet and development kit from http://www.megawin.com.tw/megawin_EN/ProductShow.asp?ID=175
If it comes to the worst, it may be possible to copy/modify/reprogram the firmware or data area to change the layout.

I can't believe they won't come through on the firmware. Setting up a production line like this can cost what, a few hundred thousand minimum? Injection molds are 50k a pop or something. Anyhow the investment is done, at this point if they just clean it up they can sit back and print money (assuming they still have customers ...)

[Architect]

FYI I've set up ControllerMate (on the Mac) to temporarily handle the key remapping until they get the software out, it works quite well. They have a USB driver which handles the translation making it work seamlessly with the rest of the system.

Here is my latest key mapping from stock, I'm really getting proficient on the keyboard now, and because of the dual modifier key blocks am almost mouse free, and am as fast as I was before.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 37182[/ATTACH]

A few notes ...

• The modifier key blocks (Shift/Command/Option/Control) are pinky keys which has been horrible for me in the past (emacs pinkies). I'm finding however that because of the size and placement of these keys the pressure is supplied by twisting my hand slightly downward, not using the pinky muscles but the weight of the hand to press (for those press and hold modifier actions) Seems to be working out well. On regular keyboards you have to extend the pinky which causes the pain eventually
• Since I'm a programmer by vocation the '[]' keys are all grouped together at the top right because they are used so much - very fast!
• The other important '-=' keys are grouped logically together in the upper right, which makes it easier to adjust and makes more sense then the factory decision I think.
• I'm not using the left space bar at all, not sure what to map it to yet, maybe command?
• I don't use forward delete much but that's what I've got in the center row at the moment. I'd like to send a "Shift-Tab" which would be perfect but, if that can be done at all it has to be done in the keyboard reprogramming software.
• Not sure what to do with the two extra keys just below the center Function key block (the center one is a keyboard meta used for num and caps lock). Default they're left and right control and opt.