Author Topic: My keyboard adventure so far (lots of reviews and comparisons)  (Read 4244 times)

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Offline Lunatique

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My keyboard adventure so far (lots of reviews and comparisons)
« on: Sun, 28 December 2014, 01:05:57 »
I've been documenting my keyboard adventure, and I decided to post them to share with you guys, since some of you might find it helpful to your own keyboard adventure.

If you want some background information about me and why keyboards matter to me, you can read my self-intro post:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=66386.msg1554271#msg1554271

Onto the reviews:

RealForce 87U Type-S (ergonomically weighted) - The quietest keyboard I have right now--even more so than any of the standard rubber dome keyboards I have. It's also the smoothest, most comfortable keyboard I've ever typed on. I guess "buttery smooth" is an apt description.

Although for purely tactile satisfaction, it can't compare to other keyboards and switch types (buckling spring, Matias switches, and Cherry MX switches, etc.), it is still a significant improvement compared to typical rubber dome keyboards. The ergonomic weighting feels very natural and balanced, matching the touch-typing arrangement for the weaker fingers to the lighter weighted keys. For gaming, it would be noticeable though, since the A is significantly lighter than the D. I would not use this keyboard for gaming for that reason.

Due to how soft and smooth this keyboard feels to type on, you can type on it for very long periods without getting tired. It feels effortless yet never insubstantial. You'll never wonder if your key presses actuated or not, since Topre switches have the actuation point near the top of the key-press.

After typing on the Topre switches for a while, going back to normal rubber domes is a lot like having driven a luxury sedan for a few days and then going back to a cheap car that doesn't handle nearly as smooth, or ride as comfortably (though you can say the same of any mechanical switch, I think. They're all much better feeling than standard rubber dome). The typical rubber dome--even the more expensive ones, have much more wobbly keys and sluggish feel. That doesn't really affect your typing accuracy or speed since we can adapt to changes like that very quickly and easily (our motor skills are pretty good as a species), and if you never had something else to compare with, you'd never notice it. I guess what we're paying for with these premium products is really just the luxury of diminishing returns.

Pros:
-The smoothest keyboard I've ever typed on.
-The quietest keyboard I've ever typed on.
-Can swap L-Ctrl with CapsLock.
-High quality PBT dye-sublimated keycaps.
-High quality construction that's very sturdy.

Cons:
Expensive.

Unicomp Endurapro - Love typing on it due to its highly tactile keys, but it's extremely loud for anything else I do on the computer that's not strictly concentrated typing. It is especially annoying to control media playback or navigate the web with it (such as fastforward/rewind, or scrolling web pages). I only use it when I'm doing a lot of writing (novels, blog posts, forum posts), because that's what it really excels at--for you to feel that satisfaction of pounding on the keys. I'll probably return this since I just don't want to deal with full-size keyboards anymore, and I'll wait for Unicomp's SSK version later in 2015 (they told me it's coming later in the year, though it's taking them longer than they predicted to manufacture the SSK version).

Pros:
-Very tactile.

Cons:
-Very noisy.
-Requires the most force and a bit fatiguing when typing long sessions.
-Full-size.
-Frame unnecessarily tall, with dated form-factor that has a huge chasm between the function keys and the alphanumeric keys.
-Only two rubber feet so it does slide around on the desk.

Razer Blackwidow Chroma - I don't plan on keeping this keyboard--it really just to get a feel for how fully customized RGB keys fit my preferences, and what prolonged typing on Razer's MX-compatible switch feels like (it was the only RGB keyboard available to me locally that has similar feel as blue Cherry MX switches, and all the comments online say they feel very similar, and they do indeed feel very similar).

I really like tying on the Blackwidow, for its tactile feel. It feels a bit more agile than buckling spring, and I kind of prefer that when I have a lot of thoughts I want to get down quickly (whereas buckling spring is more like I contemplate a lot, then type a few sentences, and repeat--a stop and go cycle). The noise of the switch isn't nearly as bad as buckling spring (but that damn spacebar is really annoying on the upstroke), although I still wouldn't want to use it for anything else other than strictly typing.

Pros:
-Tactility just about right; crisp and light-footed, and not tiring.
-Very easy to find accessories/customization options.
-Only full RGB customization currently available.

Cons:
-The clicking sound can be slightly distracting when doing editing work or navigating media playback.

Being able customize every single key's color is a dream-come-true for me. I'm so into customizing stuff to fit my preferences that the first thing I do whenever I get a new piece of software, is to go into the preferences/options and change the GUI theme color to my preference. From now on, I will only get RGB switches that allow full customization (for switch types that have this option). They are not widely available yet--so far only Cooler Master and Razer have them (Rosewell's version is so limited that it's not even worth considering). Hopefully the RGB switches will make their way to other manufacturers soon. I saw that MAX keyboard's customized LED Blackbird is out-of-stock, which to me, seems like a sign that they're maybe moving to the RGB switches instead, since it's much more flexible than having to select the color of LED you want for each switch and then having MAX installing the exact color LED onto each key and charging you for it.

One thing I really dislike about the Blackwidow Chroma, is how the back-plate under the keys are lit up really brightly too, since they purposely made it white. It's visually distracting from the keys themselves and making it harder to see legends. IMO, only the legends on the keys should be lit up, for maximum clarity in readability. Another thing that really annoys me is the symbols and shift punctuation on the Blackwidow Chroma are not back-lit. Why the hell would they do that? Every legend on the keycaps should be lit properly IMO.

Matias Mini Quiet Pro - I wasn't quite sure if I wanted to try the Matias version of quiest ALPS switches, since they're known to be louder than the Type-S Topre switches. But they're supposed to be more tactile, so I wanted to find out for myself. I'm glad I did, because it turned out to be one of my favorites.

Although the Matias quiet switch is probably the most coarse feeling tactile sensation among all the switches I've tried, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. That coarseness is what provides the distinct tactile sensation, while not being unpleasant at all. The amount of force required feels just right--similar to blue Cherry MX, and the tactility level is similar too, although it's more like a grinding sensation than a sharp/snappy sensation.

The noise level is about the same as typical rubber dome keyboards, so it's not as quiet as RealForce Type-S Topre, but definitely more quiet than most mechanical switches (unless you mod them).

Pros:
-Tactility is very close to blue Cherry MX, so it's quite good.
-Same noise level as typical rubber dome keyboards, so it's quiet enough to justify the name.

Cons:
-Wish there was a TKL version instead, or a layout like the Keycool 84, so the Home/End keys aren't on FN layer. Having to use FN layer is never better than not having to.
-Only two rubber feet so it does slide around on the desk.

Leopold FC660C - What attracted me to this keyboard the most was its form-factor. I think it's one of the best layouts for small form-factor keyboards, with very intuitive implementation of the FN layer to have the arrow keys double as Page Up/Down and Home/End keys. That is how it should be done, IMO. Although if I had to choose, I'd still prefer no FN layer for navigation cluster keys, but there are no small-form factor Topre keyboard options like that--the FC660C is as close as we can get right now.

In comparison, the HHKB layout doesn't seem as intuitive to me because having to use FN layer for navigation cluster is just not as convenient, even if you can train yourself to get used to it. The advantage it does have, is being able to assign the Alt keys as Fn keys, which means you can use both hands to activate the Fn layer. Some people might also prefer the diamond cluster for the arrow keys on the HHKB since it's closer to home-row.

The 45g weight of the FC660C's Topre keyswitch feels just right--perfect weighting IMO for effortless typing yet enough tactile feedback. It's a bit more tactile than the 45g on the RealForce 87U--more like 50g.

Topre switches are inherently more quiet than other switches, so in a way, I think it would be justified to call all Topre switches "quiet switches." The FC660C is about the same as the Matias quiet switch in terms of noise, so if Matias can call that switch the "quiet" version, then all Topre switches are also "quiet" switches," and the Type-S/Silent version can be called "super quiet" switches. :)

Pros:
-Small form-factor.
-Intuitive layout.
-Can swap L-Ctrl with CapsLock
-Perfect weighting and great to type on
-High quality PBT dye-sublimation keycaps that feels very nice.

Cons:
-Modifier keys slightly noisy, and a little too dark, with black legend on dark gray keycaps.
-I wish it had the ability to turn the Alt keys into Fn keys, so I can use the left hand to activate the function 1-6 keys instead of having to use both hands.

This keyboard is quite expensive due to it being an import, but there's nothing else on the market that is like it, due to its unique layout and Topre keyswitches. If it fits your needs and you are willing to pay for it, I think you'll really enjoy this keyboard.

Adesso AKP-220B (blue Cherry MX) - I like this keypad just fine, but I think it's not as optimized as could be in its layout. If there were no other options, I'd be happy with it, but when I saw the group-buy on MassDrop for the Leopold 21-key keypad, I knew I had to replace the Adesso with the Leopold, since I like its layout slightly more (especially the placement of the backspace and NumLock).


X-keys® XK-24 - This thing's awesome. I used the customizable macro keys on my Logitech G110 for years, and can't live without it. But this takes the idea to the next level, with customizable legends, and double the number of available keys, as well as have the ability to string together more complex macros. Between this thing and the abundant customizable keys on my Mad Catz M.M.O.7 mouse and Logitech G600 mouse, I'm like the king of macros and shortcuts. :D

MAX Cherry MX Switch, O-Ring Samper Tester Kit - I actually have both the regular one and the Pro version, since when I ordred the regualr one, I didn't know there was a Pro version. So now I have the regular ones with O-rings on, to compare to the ones without O-Rings on the Pro version.

After comparing all the switches, I still like blue switches the most, due to its perfect balance of lighter/medium weight, sharp tactility, and crisp sound, which creates the illusion of being agile and fast.

The green switch is similar, except a bit heavier. For a slightly more solid feel than the blue, this would be it. I don't really need heavier weight than blue though, but if there was a keyboard I'm drooling after that only has green switch option, I wouldn't hesitate to get it, since the weight differences between green and blue aren't significant enough to me.

The white isn't tactile enough for me, though I appreciate the quieter click.

Brown never did anything for me. Its tactility is almost negligible, to the point where I wonder why even bother.

The clear's tactile bump is too rounded and not sharp enough to be satisfying for me. Same with the gray, except the weight gets a bit ridiculous at that level.

I can understand why FPS playes love the red switch. It's really just a key on a spring and very smooth, with no tactile interference whatsoever, so it's easy to spam a key repeatedly. But I don't play nearly as much games as I did when I was younger, so my fiction-writing needs is what I judge the keyboards by, and for typing, I definitely want tactility. Same with the black switch.

What's coming next for me - I've got a RealForce 87U in 55g uniform weight coming, since I really want to see if everyone is right about how the 55g is significantly more satisfying in tactility than the 45g or the ergonomically weighted. After assessing it, I'll have to decide if I want to keep it or the ergonomically weighted, or both.

I'm going to order a Matias Tactile Pro soon, when the PC version is released, and I'll need to assess just how much more tactile it is than the quiet version, and decide if it's uniquely satisfying enough to keep, despite it being as loud as a buckling spring. If the quiet version is close enough in terms of how satisfying the feel is compared to the tactile version, then there would be no need to keep the tactile version, since I will always prefer the more quiet version if everything else being equal/similar.

I'm waiting for more fully customizable RGB keyboards to be released before I buy one (with blue Cherry MX), since none on the market are ideal for me right now (no TKL or smaller format that's fully customizable in LED color on every single key).

I'm going to get the SSK version from Unicomp when they come out with it later in 2015. Gotta have at least one buckling spring, right?

I've got the Leopold 21-Key numeric keypad ordered on MassDrop (with blue Cherry MX). It'll feel similar to the Adesso keypad, but with slightly better layout and less bulky frame.

A part of me thinks it's ridiculous how many keyboards I might end up with in the near future, and that I really need to pare them down to just a couple (one daily driver and one small form-factor for typing on the Galaxy Note 3 in bed and traveling), but it's nearly impossible to pare them down when they each have unique characteristics. Also, keyboards aren't nearly as expensive as my other hobbies/passions (photography, pro audio), so there's a lot less guilt. Even spending over a thousand dollars on keyboards feels totally fine when a single camera lens could cost far more than that, or any quality musical instrument, high-end speakers, pro audio software/plugins, etc.

I guess the good thing is that with a passionate niche community, resell value is always pretty good. :D
« Last Edit: Mon, 25 May 2015, 20:45:34 by Lunatique »

Offline davkol

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Re: My keyboard adventure so far (lots of reviews and comparisons)
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 28 December 2014, 09:00:13 »
Razer BW Chroma doesn't have genuine Cherry MX switches.

Offline JaccoW

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Re: My keyboard adventure so far (lots of reviews and comparisons)
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 28 December 2014, 09:45:43 »
I enjoyed reading this. Thank you. :)
|||Daily driver: Duck Orion TKL
|||My other keyboards :
More
|||The Original|Home|Work|Numpad|Play|Endgame|Keycaps
x
|Déck Legend Frost|Keycool 87 LE|Leopold FC660M|FC 210TP|Raptor K1 Gaming|Duck Orion TKL|My keycaps & sets
|Pics|Pics|Pics|Pics|Pics|Pics

|||Want to know what Keycap stores there are? Check out my Keyboard Pearltree and my (FS/FT/WTB) thread

Offline Lunatique

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Re: My keyboard adventure so far (lots of reviews and comparisons)
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 28 December 2014, 13:02:45 »
Razer BW Chroma doesn't have genuine Cherry MX switches.

Yes, but for my purpose, it's close enough that any hair-splitting would be unnecessary. Most people pretty much think of it as if it's blue Cherry MX.

Offline davkol

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Re: My keyboard adventure so far (lots of reviews and comparisons)
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 28 December 2014, 14:32:07 »
Razer BW Chroma doesn't have genuine Cherry MX switches.

Yes, but for my purpose, it's close enough that any hair-splitting would be unnecessary. Most people pretty much think of it as if it's blue Cherry MX.
Yeah, sure.

Trademarks exist for a reason. Enjoy spreading misinformation.

Offline Ngt

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Re: My keyboard adventure so far (lots of reviews and comparisons)
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 28 December 2014, 15:09:49 »
Worth reading thanks!

Silenced Novatouch w/ Hack'd by Geeks

Sold: Ducky Zero Shine (Brown) | Poker 2 (Blue) | HHKB 55g Type-S

Offline Lunatique

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Re: My keyboard adventure so far (lots of reviews and comparisons)
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 28 December 2014, 17:37:36 »
Razer BW Chroma doesn't have genuine Cherry MX switches.

Yes, but for my purpose, it's close enough that any hair-splitting would be unnecessary. Most people pretty much think of it as if it's blue Cherry MX.
Yeah, sure.

Trademarks exist for a reason. Enjoy spreading misinformation.

It's not spreading misinformation. It only means the feel is similar enough that for the purpose of comparison, it really doesn't matter enough to me. I'm not the only one who feels this way, since in most mentions of the Razer switch, people usually include comments about how it pretty much feels like Cherry MX. And if it makes any difference, I'll edit my original post to reflect the fact that I'm only "thinking of it" like blue Cherry MX and that it actually isn't. Better?

« Last Edit: Sun, 28 December 2014, 17:40:47 by Lunatique »

Offline davkol

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Re: My keyboard adventure so far (lots of reviews and comparisons)
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 28 December 2014, 18:00:53 »
Razer BW Chroma doesn't have genuine Cherry MX switches.

Yes, but for my purpose, it's close enough that any hair-splitting would be unnecessary. Most people pretty much think of it as if it's blue Cherry MX.
Yeah, sure.

Trademarks exist for a reason. Enjoy spreading misinformation.

It's not spreading misinformation. It only means the feel is similar enough that for the purpose of comparison, it really doesn't matter enough to me. I'm not the only one who feels this way, since in most mentions of the Razer switch, people usually include comments about how it pretty much feels like Cherry MX. And if it makes any difference, I'll edit my original post to reflect the fact that I'm only "thinking of it" like blue Cherry MX and that it actually isn't. Better?
Then be so kind and write that explicitly in the OP. See the sticky.

Offline Lunatique

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Re: My keyboard adventure so far (lots of reviews and comparisons)
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 28 December 2014, 18:17:20 »
Razer BW Chroma doesn't have genuine Cherry MX switches.

Yes, but for my purpose, it's close enough that any hair-splitting would be unnecessary. Most people pretty much think of it as if it's blue Cherry MX.

Yeah, sure.

Trademarks exist for a reason. Enjoy spreading misinformation.

It's not spreading misinformation. It only means the feel is similar enough that for the purpose of comparison, it really doesn't matter enough to me. I'm not the only one who feels this way, since in most mentions of the Razer switch, people usually include comments about how it pretty much feels like Cherry MX. And if it makes any difference, I'll edit my original post to reflect the fact that I'm only "thinking of it" like blue Cherry MX and that it actually isn't. Better?
Then be so kind and write that explicitly in the OP. See the sticky.

Thanks for pointing me to that link. I didn't know there was such an announcement (I'm new here). I wish you had pointed me to that immediately, and I would have edited my post right away to comply with that announcement. For future reference, I think it's best to do that instead of a snarky comment, which isn't exactly friendly--especially to someone who's new to the community.
« Last Edit: Sun, 28 December 2014, 18:25:42 by Lunatique »

Offline JaccoW

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Re: My keyboard adventure so far (lots of reviews and comparisons)
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 29 December 2014, 15:15:22 »
Also, Elena needs more keyboard shots. :P
|||Daily driver: Duck Orion TKL
|||My other keyboards :
More
|||The Original|Home|Work|Numpad|Play|Endgame|Keycaps
x
|Déck Legend Frost|Keycool 87 LE|Leopold FC660M|FC 210TP|Raptor K1 Gaming|Duck Orion TKL|My keycaps & sets
|Pics|Pics|Pics|Pics|Pics|Pics

|||Want to know what Keycap stores there are? Check out my Keyboard Pearltree and my (FS/FT/WTB) thread

Offline Lunatique

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Re: My keyboard adventure so far (lots of reviews and comparisons)
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 29 December 2014, 17:26:07 »
Also, Elena needs more keyboard shots. :P

Hahahaa... I actually did a photo-shoot with her back when we first started dating (almost 14 years ago), with her hugging/caressing a musical keyboard (it was my Korg Triton Le, 61-key version). It was really silly and actually started a "Triton Babes" photo competition at the Triton Haven website. I think we're too old for that level of silliness now. Well, maybe just barely. :D I did try to do a "Headphone Babe" session with her a few years ago, but it turned out a little boring looking, since we didn't work too hard at making it compelling.

Offline Kira

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Re: My keyboard adventure so far (lots of reviews and comparisons)
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 27 January 2015, 23:49:59 »
Great read! Definitely salivating on trying out some topres now xD