Topre Realforce 87U EK Edition versus Type Heaven

[gregh]

I just switched from the Type Heaven to the Realforce so I just wanted to write a quick comparison for anyone else who is wondering about the differences.

First, the build quality on the boards seems similar to me, both are extremely heavy and solid without any easily noticeable problems. The Type Heaven definitely isn't a "budget" keyboard by any means.

The keycaps make a huge difference. The PBT caps on the Realforce seem MUCH quieter and less clacky. The caps do feel a bit better to me overall as well.

The ABS caps on the Type Heaven aren't bad but they just have a much higher pitched sound that's less pleasant to me.

Also, weighting on the uniform 45G real force feels just slightly heavier and maybe a bit more tactile to me. I"m not sure why that is since they should be the exact same switches. Could be the keycaps I suppose.

Bottoming out on the Type Heaven feels more harsh to me, as if you're bottoming out on a solid steel plate (which I think you are? haha) while the Realforce feels like you're bottoming out on a piece of wood, which is still hard but not the solid cold rigidity of a slab of steel. I like it much better and it's definitely a gentler feel.

Hope this helps someone!

[btctopre]

I'll include my thoughts that I wrote on that same subject in a different thread here as well so multiple opinions are consolidated:

The stock Type Heaven by itself feels more... rigid than a Realforce. The bottom out just doesn't have as nice of a "cushion" as the Realforce does, the ABS keys produce more of a thack sound than a thock, and they definitely wobble around a little more than the Realforce. My Type Heaven also felt like it required slightly more force to press the keys, though I've read that can just be Topre switches in general.

With PBT keys on the Type Heaven, it still types the same pretty much. Nothing changes with the bottom out, but the sound becomes a little more thock-y, and the wobble decreases (looks like maybe the gap between sides on the stems is smaller on the PBT keys). The keys themselves obviously have a different feel to them (the ABS Type Heaven keys legitimately feel cheap compared side-by-side with the RF PBT heh), so that improves the typing experience a little bit, but it's just not the same as a Realforce overall.

Looks like we're mostly in agreement aside from which board feels like it requires more force to push. I did the coin trick to test the weighting and most of the Type Heaven keys didn't fully press at ~45g for me (and some RF keys didn't either), so I think we might be able to chalk that up to the slight switch strength variance that (someone said) Topre has mentioned is a side-effect of their manufacturing.

[Hyde]

If you guys want to see the internal difference, I've took both apart recently.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=68076.0

Also the weight difference is most likely contributed from the silver (type heaven) vs gold (realforce) spring.

[brimborion]

I only have the Type Heaven. I find the rubberizing or whatever they've done to the keys more than offsets any cheap feeling the ABS plastic might impart. All of the keys are rigid and I don't detect any appreciable wobble. I haven't tried any other PBT keys but those on my Model Ms and Unicomps, which probably aren't similar to those on the Realforce, but compared to those I don't find the Type Heaven keys lacking.

I have seen in some videos where the Realforce has a deeper timbre to its "thock" and I can hear that, though mine in isolation doesn't have a high pitched sound, it's still a dark, low sound that I like.

If the Realforce is better, I should get one, because the Type Heaven is a very solid, pleasant keyboard.

[Hyde]

I currently use Type Heaven at work and Realforce at home, and I agree that Type Heaven is a very solid board.

Also like you said whatever rubberized texture coating they did to the keycaps are amazing.

I actually wish they did the same coating for Realforce.

[jabbon]

I currently use Type Heaven at work and Realforce at home, and I agree that Type Heaven is a very solid board.

Also like you said whatever rubberized texture coating they did to the keycaps are amazing.

I actually wish they did the same coating for Realforce.

Then, ABS caps from the Type Heaven are not 100% rubbish? Having mixed feelings with the Type Heaven since it seems that with the original caps it is not a "real" topre board...

[Sygaldry]

I currently use Type Heaven at work and Realforce at home, and I agree that Type Heaven is a very solid board.

Also like you said whatever rubberized texture coating they did to the keycaps are amazing.

I actually wish they did the same coating for Realforce.

Then, ABS caps from the Type Heaven are not 100% rubbish? Having mixed feelings with the Type Heaven since it seems that with the original caps it is not a "real" topre board...

The Type Heaven was one of my first keyboards and I loved it. It's a great keyboard and is definitely a "real" Topre board in terms of build quality and typing feel. The stock caps aren't completely rubbish; they're just not up to the quality of the caps that come stock on Realforce boards.

[jabbon]

I currently use Type Heaven at work and Realforce at home, and I agree that Type Heaven is a very solid board.

Also like you said whatever rubberized texture coating they did to the keycaps are amazing.

I actually wish they did the same coating for Realforce.

Then, ABS caps from the Type Heaven are not 100% rubbish? Having mixed feelings with the Type Heaven since it seems that with the original caps it is not a "real" topre board...

The Type Heaven was one of my first keyboards and I loved it. It's a great keyboard and is definitely a "real" Topre board in terms of build quality and typing feel. The stock caps aren't completely rubbish; they're just not up to the quality of the caps that come stock on Realforce boards.

Is there a big difference in feeling and sound compared to a real force? I am having my doubts whether to pull the trigger with the type heaven or save extra cash and get an Realforce or FC660C

[Hyde]

This might be a preference thing, but I find Realforce caps have little to no texture, like almost too smooth.

Maybe I'm used to texture on PBT caps.  So having no texture makes it feel like ABS.

Out of the 3 you listed I'd recommend FC660C, good keycaps texture and good typing feel.

And after that it's a tie between Realforce and Type Heaven.

[jabbon]

This might be a preference thing, but I find Realforce caps have little to no texture, like almost too smooth.

Maybe I'm used to texture on PBT caps.  So having no texture makes it feel like ABS.

Out of the 3 you listed I'd recommend FC660C, good keycaps texture and good typing feel.

And after that it's a tie between Realforce and Type Heaven.

Let me add extra variables to the ecuation...

Here in Europe it is easier (and cheaper) to get a Novatouch. I have read mix of reviews. Considering that I have a nice colection of MX PBT sets...is there a big difference between Novatouch (new MX topre stems) vs FC660C/Type heaven (classic Topre stems)?

[Sygaldry]

I currently use Type Heaven at work and Realforce at home, and I agree that Type Heaven is a very solid board.

Also like you said whatever rubberized texture coating they did to the keycaps are amazing.

I actually wish they did the same coating for Realforce.

Then, ABS caps from the Type Heaven are not 100% rubbish? Having mixed feelings with the Type Heaven since it seems that with the original caps it is not a "real" topre board...

The Type Heaven was one of my first keyboards and I loved it. It's a great keyboard and is definitely a "real" Topre board in terms of build quality and typing feel. The stock caps aren't completely rubbish; they're just not up to the quality of the caps that come stock on Realforce boards.

Is there a big difference in feeling and sound compared to a real force? I am having my doubts whether to pull the trigger with the type heaven or save extra cash and get an Realforce or FC660C

Typing feel is the same but the Type Heaven has a slightly different sound probably because it has ABS keycaps instead of PBT.

[ablooga]

Strange. When i bottom on my Type Heaven i feel like I'm landing on the rubber on top of a solid plate, making it a solid yet soft landing.
Bottoming out on my Realforce, I don't feel a soft landing on the bottom. Feels hard and harsh like a cherry mx board

[TopreFan333]

This might seem crazy, but I put a set of Realforce PBT key caps onto the Type Heaven I have -- it's just great. The PBT keys give it a less "clattery" sound, though that's not to imply the stock Type Heaven caps are bad by any means. As others have noted, they have a really nice satin-y finish, and it seems to ward off shine, at least it has so far. After a few months of pretty solid use, the only key that I can see any wear on is the space bar.

[nerp]

I am writing this on my new Type Heaven and this is my first Topre switch board. I have been using my Lexmark 1995 Model M for the past two years and decided to finally come to the dark side. As far as ABS caps go, these are the thickest I've seen. I bought it thinking "meh, I'll just get some PBT caps later" but honestly I don't see the point. I might change my tune if I got my hands on a Realforce, and now that I've dipped my toes in these dark and sadistic waters, I might. But I honestly don't see them making all that much of a difference and the board is solid enough as it is if you're coming at it with virgin eyes. Call me peculiar for liking full sized boards that probably cost more than they should, but $150 for this doesn't seem excessive to me. The switches, though. Damn is this nice to write on. I love my Model M and quite like my Unicomps but this is a very pleasant change of pace.

The click on a buckling spring comes sooner than the thock of the Topre. The bounce back has a nice bounce, as if the key is accelerating against my fingertips whereas the buckling spring is a firm push, slightly cold. The Topre keys remind me of triggers on a gamepad. I like to compare the feeling of the Topre to what I'd imagine the love child of a Model M and Thinkpad keyboard would be.

The Topre switches are the real deal. I love this keyboard. I can see this being my daily driver now.

[TopreFan333]

I am writing this on my new Type Heaven and this is my first Topre switch board. I have been using my Lexmark 1995 Model M for the past two years and decided to finally come to the dark side. As far as ABS caps go, these are the thickest I've seen. I bought it thinking "meh, I'll just get some PBT caps later" but honestly I don't see the point. I might change my tune if I got my hands on a Realforce, and now that I've dipped my toes in these dark and sadistic waters, I might. But I honestly don't see them making all that much of a difference and the board is solid enough as it is if you're coming at it with virgin eyes. Call me peculiar for liking full sized boards that probably cost more than they should, but $150 for this doesn't seem excessive to me. The switches, though. Damn is this nice to write on. I love my Model M and quite like my Unicomps but this is a very pleasant change of pace.

I went the same route. It cost me dearly to step up to PBT keycaps (they don't come cheap), and the total expenditure equalled what I'd have spent just buying a Realforce in the first place.  But I will say, the PBT caps made quite a difference in sound. Much less of a "clatter" on the upstroke, and generally they just feel a bit softer to me somehow. Also, white keycaps on a black board look really nice.

All that said, I think the Type Heaven is a bit underrated and built quite well. The ABS keys are not terrible by any means either.

[nerp]

I suppose I'll just buy myself a RealForce at some point, then. Unless some dramatically more cost-effective way to get PBT caps arises.

I don't have any complaint about the noise but I do perceive the clatter you mention. It's not so bad but I can imagine what it would be like to eliminate that and I bet it's pretty nice.