Post by: xondat on Mon, 18 December 2017, 16:06:11
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/420924678777995266/632066855535640576/Silver_Top.jpg)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/420924678777995266/632066713965559819/Blue_Angle2.jpg)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/420924678777995266/632066762812424193/Dark_Angle3.jpg)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/420924678777995266/632066740440006656/Silver_Angle1.jpg)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/420924678777995266/632066831016001546/Blue_Side.jpg)
Noxary XRF Product Page (https://noxary.co/products/noxary-xrf)
The Noxary XRF is a case replacement for the Realforce R1, a TKL keyboard designed & produced by Topre. You will be able to take the internals of your Realforce, and swap out the plastic case for the all metal enclosure. The included custom daughterboard features a USB C port, allowing you to connect your own cable. This is compatible with the 86u, 87u, 88u, and 89u, however the Winkeyless option will require full disassembly to remove two housings on the bottom row.
Group Buy details:
- How much? $369 + shipping.
- What colors? Blue Gray, Lightning Silver, Meteorite Gray
- Winkeyless or Winkey? Both!
- Compatible with Realforce R1 Internals
- Seamless Case Design
- Top Mounted Plate
- 6ｰ Base Angle
- 17mm Front Height
- ~2140g Kit Weight / ~2880g Built
- USB C Daughterboard
- Winkeyless or Winkey
- Blue Gray
- Lightning Silver
- Meteorite Gray
- 1 x Aluminum Top
- 1 x Aluminum Bottom
- 1 x Daughterboard PCB
- 1 x JST to JST Cable
- 4 x M3 Hex Screws
- 12 x M2 Hex Screws
- 4 x 3M Bumpons
- Starts October 28th
- Closes November 30th
- Shipping in early April
Post by: hayt on Mon, 18 December 2017, 16:08:11
Post by: duynguyenle on Mon, 18 December 2017, 16:10:17
Oh, and how about a replacement plate that allows the use of all 1u housings and Cherry or Costar plate mounted stabs? (preferrable Cherry, but not sure if there's enough clearance for the wire or will it rub on the 1u housing?)
Post by: darkslay3r on Tue, 19 December 2017, 04:43:01
Post by: TalkingTree on Tue, 19 December 2017, 04:49:39
Post by: avid on Tue, 19 December 2017, 04:51:30
Post by: Wetherbee on Tue, 19 December 2017, 06:07:02
Definitely in, mostly for the 86U Tsangan support. All the plate options would finally make GMK/SP keycaps compatible with the Realforce with no PCB changes, so much less research and development needed. The plate options alone would be a major upgrade and something nobody has ever done. The new MX stabs from Topre will always be available to harvest unlike the Novatouch which is no longer in production, and Topre's MX stabs are Superior to the Novatouch anyways.
A variety of different plate finishes/colors would be cool. Bonus is that the market for the plate would include all the owners of Digilogs, Norbaforce, TGR Zooey, and the Noxary XRF so reaching MOQ should be super easy.
If you go for the full case design I'd be interested in different color anodizing options - hard to get right but would differentiate your product from the other options. USB C support should also be standard. Programmable internal QMK or similar like the Hasu controller would be incredible.
Post by: kmba on Tue, 19 December 2017, 06:41:45
Post by: Wetherbee on Tue, 19 December 2017, 09:45:13
You forgot a plate to make it compatible with a 1996 Honda Civic, and one to enable compatibility with a Kohler kitchen sink
:p true. Honestly, I'd be happy with 86U Tsangan since it is the only standard layout possible on a Realforce TKL that will accept SP/GMK kits with no PCB changes. Advantage of this plate is that this is a super simple change to fix the spacebar stabs. Adding holes for the new Topre-made MX stabs from the Realforce RGB would be icing on the cake. If I could only choose one plate that would be it.
Post by: mason on Tue, 19 December 2017, 09:50:39
Post by: megaforce on Tue, 19 December 2017, 10:28:32
Post by: Wetherbee on Tue, 19 December 2017, 10:47:16
Post by: xondat on Tue, 19 December 2017, 11:06:09
Shallower pls (same angle as a RF case without its feet deployed would be nice)
Oh, and how about a replacement plate that allows the use of all 1u housings and Cherry or Costar plate mounted stabs? (preferrable Cherry, but not sure if there's enough clearance for the wire or will it rub on the 1u housing?)
I'll measure flat and feet up on the stock case and probably go in between. 8 is my go to, as I really like it.
I'm going to be talking with Wetherbee about more than a housing replacement as he's quite knowledgeable on the topic so I'll get back to you on that. ;D
Where is the USB opening placed?
Probably center. Still figuring out what is possible. Hoping the breakout board means I could put a USB-C (maybe) connector instead of a fixed cable.
Looks good! I assume no weight should affect the price by quite a bit, so no weight is my preference. Have you thought about colors yet?
Yeah it will, the weight would probably add around $50. Quick thought on colors is just black/silver/dark gray/navy, but I'm open to anything really.
You forgot a plate to make it compatible with a 1996 Honda Civic, and one to enable compatibility with a Kohler kitchen sink
Damn it. I'll do better next time :'(
I am posting to tell you that I am interested
I am replying to tell you thanks
Stick a bar of brass on the bottom please.
So tempting.
That top plate is t h i c c. Low profile keysets will likely look recessed into the case which is pretty badass and would be awesome with HiPro or SA.
Damn, I just realized Topre sits a bit lower, guess it'll change a little.
Post by: dgneo on Tue, 19 December 2017, 16:05:22
Post by: xondat on Tue, 19 December 2017, 16:42:49
WKL w/ 86u a possibility?
Yup. Will be doing WKL :)
Post by: regionfree on Tue, 19 December 2017, 17:03:18
Post by: brighenne on Tue, 19 December 2017, 18:30:18
Post by: le_wraith on Tue, 19 December 2017, 20:02:59
Post by: Wetherbee on Tue, 19 December 2017, 20:04:28
The programmability and the angle (via case rather than risers) seem like decided advantages over Norbaforce, especially if you can offer the WKL variant like Norbaforce. Not to stir the pot, and acknowledging the independent value of each the value of the creators' efforts, for those of us who want to decide which to buy, anyone else have any thoughts on pros/cons of this vs. Norbaforce?
Why not both? Also, this is an interest check, the Norbaforce is in Group Buy and has already met MOQ. Not really an either/or proposition yet.
Post by: xondat on Tue, 19 December 2017, 20:10:41
The programmability and the angle (via case rather than risers) seem like decided advantages over Norbaforce, especially if you can offer the WKL variant like Norbaforce. Not to stir the pot, and acknowledging the independent value of each the value of the creators' efforts, for those of us who want to decide which to buy, anyone else have any thoughts on pros/cons of this vs. Norbaforce?
Norbauer's project is super nice but just didn't fulfill what I wanted (nothing against him). I prefer a clean silhouette and just a simpler construction. The height was a aspect too.
His is already happening so you'll get it a lot sooner -- I don't have a lot of details worked out yet. You can have powder coated finishes on his, and it has two possible angles.
I can't really comment as there is obvious bias.
Post by: Wetherbee on Tue, 19 December 2017, 20:32:51
The programmability and the angle (via case rather than risers) seem like decided advantages over Norbaforce, especially if you can offer the WKL variant like Norbaforce. Not to stir the pot, and acknowledging the independent value of each the value of the creators' efforts, for those of us who want to decide which to buy, anyone else have any thoughts on pros/cons of this vs. Norbaforce?
Norbauer's project is super nice but just didn't fulfill what I wanted (nothing against him). I prefer a clean silhouette and just a simpler construction. The height was a aspect too.
His is already happening so you'll get it a lot sooner -- I don't have a lot of details worked out yet. You can have powder coated finishes on his, and it has two possible angles.
I can't really comment as there is obvious bias.
I intend to invest in both projects. They both are fantastic and the investment will be well worth it. I will say that Xondat's plate option is exciting if it can be realized, and he seems to be further along with the modeling of the plate - most advanced model I've seen yet. Norbauer has also stated an interest in developing a plate at a later date. I think it is great to bring all sorts of alternatives to market - options benefit us all. Think of how many HHKB MX clones exist and they keep coming up with more - it is a popular design. There is plenty of room for alternative designs on the Realforce models as well - IMHO the Realforce 86U is the idealized keyboard and deserves many different iterations and options to suit different owners and differing use patterns.
That plate though would solve a major issue - the Norbaforce is only compatible with Topre spacebars without sub-optimal modifications to the spacebar or plate using modeling clay and glue, as detailed in PerniciousPony's post on his "84U" design which is even featured in Norbauer's advertising. A custom plate for the 86U would enable modifying the stabilizer to enable full MX Tsangan standard compatibility (i.e. MX 7u spacebar) for keysets like GMK and SA without needing a custom PCB. The great thing is that any new plate options, regardless of who develops them, should be compatible with all Realforce case designs as they all must be engineered to support the original plate dimensions. I'm hoping for a community breakthrough in eliminating the only downside to the Realforce - lack of MX spacebar support. Whoever brings the plate to market will benefit owners of the Norbaforce, Noxary XRF, TGR Zooey, the two Digilog Korean custom models, and the KBDfan Korean custom. The 87U, since it is more widely available, also deserves a plate designed for it to make the spacebar stabilizers compatible with the GMK center-stem 6u spacebar featured on the latest sets like GMK Laser. Since we are doing custom plates we can add the holes for the new Topre-made MX stabilizers for the shift, Enter, and Backspace keys. I also think changing from steel to pvd coated brass will be an upgrade in overall keyfeel and in looks. A nice plate can really compliment a build with the right materials and finishes. The stock Realforce plate is also prone to rusting as anyone in a wet climate can tell you. A coated brass or aluminum plate would not rust.
As for the case, I see pros and cons to both the Norbaforce design and the Noxary XRF design. Both are far better than the two Digilog cases and the KBDfans case, which is saying a lot because these cases were fantastic and have served many lucky owners well for many, many years. The ergonomic differences between each case will be argued at length by the community, but I look forward to trying them both with different keycap sets and making that determination for myself. Keyboards are deeply personal experiences and you won't know what you like until you try it yourself or at a Meetup, which has another advantage in that it expands and builds on our weird little community of enthusiasts. I would say though, that if you have any interest at all in either design, invest in it when it is available as it may never happen again. You can always turn around and trade/sell the case later, typically at a profit. There is a thriving aftermarket for well made cases.
Post by: tchevass on Tue, 19 December 2017, 21:52:15
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Post by: Peiweisgreat on Tue, 19 December 2017, 23:40:36
Post by: duynguyenle on Wed, 20 December 2017, 06:27:31
Will the wkl blockers work with the 87u or do I need to start hunting down a 86u while I have the chance?
It will work, it will just block your left winkey and right menu key. You still get access to your spacebar and right Winkey.
Post by: xondat on Wed, 20 December 2017, 07:11:34
Dgneo did a mockup on Norbauer's board:
(http://i.imgur.com/HBL8B3H.jpg)
Mine will be the same.
Post by: dgneo on Wed, 20 December 2017, 07:16:05
WKL w/ 86u a possibility?
Yup. Will be doing WKL :)
Count me in.
Post by: DALExSNAIL on Wed, 20 December 2017, 07:27:17
Post by: xondat on Wed, 20 December 2017, 07:57:28
(https://i.imgur.com/bjdw3Cs.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/GbKb1o6.png)
Made a few small changes:
- Increased outer corner diameter, I think this looks just right.
- Made a WKL model.
- Changed bezel height from 7mm to 6.1mm (stock is 6.05mm).
- Added a small recess for a sticker or something. True to the original board. Might keep it, might not.
Probably will be changing the mounting from standard to top mounted too. Won't make much of a difference in the end result apart from being less complex.
Post by: dgneo on Wed, 20 December 2017, 08:01:22
Thanks all for the support :-*Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/bjdw3Cs.png)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/GbKb1o6.png)
Made a few small changes:Might be changing the angle. Stock is 6 degrees without feet up, and 9 degrees with them up. Currently at 8, so might go 7.5 for the middle ground, or just stay true and go 6. Not sure, thoughts?
- Increased outer corner diameter, I think this looks just right.
- Made a WKL model.
- Changed bezel height from 7mm to 6.1mm (stock is 6.05mm).
- Added a small recess for a sticker or something. True to the original board. Might keep it, might not.
Probably will be changing the mounting from standard to top mounted too. Won't make much of a difference in the end result apart from being less complex.
In my opinion the stock RF angle is perfect (6 degrees). Would love to see what it looks like.
Post by: TalkingTree on Wed, 20 December 2017, 08:43:09
Post by: xondat on Wed, 20 December 2017, 08:48:50
I assume this could pair with other TKL PCBs such as the Filco Majestouch. Am I right?
If you can use the stock RF case with what you want, then yes.
Also 6 degrees pictures:
(https://i.imgur.com/ziqGxpA.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Yx3juMU.png)
Post by: TalkingTree on Wed, 20 December 2017, 08:58:58
If I had one. Anyone can confirm this for me? Much obliged.I assume this could pair with other TKL PCBs such as the Filco Majestouch. Am I right?
If you can use the stock RF case with what you want, then yes.
Post by: pixelpusher on Wed, 20 December 2017, 09:50:06
Post by: Wetherbee on Wed, 20 December 2017, 10:31:48
Post by: afrokobe on Wed, 20 December 2017, 12:37:58
Post by: Wetherbee on Wed, 20 December 2017, 13:28:58
Post by: nurupism on Wed, 20 December 2017, 21:41:15
Post by: duynguyenle on Thu, 21 December 2017, 05:51:37
If I had one. Anyone can confirm this for me? Much obliged.I assume this could pair with other TKL PCBs such as the Filco Majestouch. Am I right?
If you can use the stock RF case with what you want, then yes.
Does not work. Spacing is different. Stick to the existing Filco cases on the market
Post by: TalkingTree on Thu, 21 December 2017, 06:03:52
Alright, thanks.MoreIf I had one. Anyone can confirm this for me? Much obliged.I assume this could pair with other TKL PCBs such as the Filco Majestouch. Am I right?
If you can use the stock RF case with what you want, then yes.
Does not work. Spacing is different. Stick to the existing Filco cases on the market
Post by: nmur on Thu, 21 December 2017, 08:22:12
was planning to buy norbauer, but this throws a wrench into my plans. Probably gonna hang around and see what happens with this. Much prefer the aesthetics of slant over the risers
same boat
although i usually have the feet up on my RF so if this is 6deg then i dunno
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 21 December 2017, 10:21:55
was planning to buy norbauer, but this throws a wrench into my plans. Probably gonna hang around and see what happens with this. Much prefer the aesthetics of slant over the risers
same boat
although i usually have the feet up on my RF so if this is 6deg then i dunno
Yes, I hope we go with something closer to the profile with the feet up. With the feet down on the RF, the space bar is uncomfortable, and I refuse to flip it. With the feet up it's perfect.
Post by: xondat on Thu, 21 December 2017, 16:03:00
It'd be helpful if everyone noted whether they use the flat or raised angle with the stock case :thumb:
I'll tally everything up and figure which I'll go with. There is always the possibility of offering 2 bottom pieces with alternating angles.
Post by: dgneo on Thu, 21 December 2017, 16:49:24
The terminology is confusing me :'( Feet up meaning using the stock higher angle?
It'd be helpful if everyone noted whether they use the flat or raised angle with the stock case :thumb:
I'll tally everything up and figure which I'll go with. There is always the possibility of offering 2 bottom pieces with alternating angles.
Flat all day
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 21 December 2017, 17:31:01
I値l vote if you put up a poll.
I知 sure I could prop something under it if you decide to go with flat
Post by: avid on Thu, 21 December 2017, 17:32:36
Post by: graefeln on Thu, 21 December 2017, 17:38:12
Post by: clasicks on Thu, 21 December 2017, 18:55:12
Post by: txclack on Thu, 21 December 2017, 19:02:27
Post by: hayt on Thu, 21 December 2017, 19:06:14
I知 in the camp that really loves the current Realforce badge. Would there be any way to transplant from the original case, or source a replica Realforce badge??
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: duynguyenle on Thu, 21 December 2017, 19:10:26
Post by: clasicks on Thu, 21 December 2017, 19:22:40
+1 for 6 degrees
I知 in the camp that really loves the current Realforce badge. Would there be any way to transplant from the original case, or source a replica Realforce badge??
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
agreed... but if uhhh trademark issues arise there should be a custom / noxary / topre badge choice that is talked about
Post by: duynguyenle on Thu, 21 December 2017, 20:17:41
I think that would complement the aesthetic design of the case and provide a nice visual point of emphasis on an otherwise quite plain top bezel.
Post by: Wetherbee on Thu, 21 December 2017, 21:07:13
I do feel like the "forehead" looks a little bit empty without the Realforce logo, perhaps someone with some graphics design experience could produce a vectorised version and get some metallic stickers made? (kinda like all the metallic HHKB stickers you can get from Taobao/Aliexpress)
I think that would complement the aesthetic design of the case and provide a nice visual point of emphasis on an otherwise quite plain top bezel.
Stickers can be applied without a physical recess or relief.. like the HHKB used in your example. I find the big forehead rather charming and iconic. Hell, you could stick some metal Cherry stickers on there if Xondat is successful with the MX custom plate. Seen some photos of that done in jest on the old Digilogs.
As I learned with the Norbaforce IC though, people want options. I was totally against Winkeyless because I thought it would delay the project, but it ended up being an option that people loved.
I guess it would be up to Xondat to see how many top plate options he is able to accommodate. If each is a custom CNC run maybe it isn't a big deal to have several options - don't know how MOQ of multiple choices impacts group buy pricing. He already sounds committed to at least a regular top in addition to a Winkeyless option.
Post by: afrokobe on Thu, 21 December 2017, 21:27:45
Post by: moh18one on Thu, 21 December 2017, 21:36:42
Flat is so comfortable to type one.
May I ask you somethings?
For OP: With the upcoming Realforce RGB TKL and Realforce R2 TKL that are going to be sold by Topre next year, can we expect a custom case for them as well? Although, the actuation point changer is quite useless for me, it a good addition to their keyboards and both models share the same case and bottom row (more standard layout), which is a big plus.
For those who own both Realforce RGB and a Topre with more conventional sliders, is it possible to swap them without the plastic housings or do they work only with these one. I don't want to use a keyboard with a plastic housing. Such a downgrade in my opinion...
Thanks ;)
Post by: Wetherbee on Thu, 21 December 2017, 21:57:12
For those who own both Realforce RGB and a Topre with more conventional sliders, is it possible to swap them without the plastic housings or do they work only with these one. I don't want to use a keyboard with a plastic housing. Such a downgrade in my opinion...
Realforce and Realforce RGB both use ABS plastic housings and sliders. RGB is a clear housing, regular is black. Shape of the slider is different to make room at the top of the housing for the LED.
Realforce RGB TKL has not been released but is scheduled for 2018. The mounting holes on the sides and in the ears on the corners are different to work with the new, square case, so adapters will be needed or a replacement plate to mount them in regular Realforce cases, assuming they keep the key dimensions the same.
Post by: xondat on Thu, 21 December 2017, 22:02:17
With the upcoming Realforce RGB TKL and Realforce R2 TKL that are going to be selling by Topre next year, can we expect a custom case for them as well? Although, the actuation point changer is quite useless for me, it a good addition to their keyboards and both models share the same case and bottom row (more standard layout), which is a big plus.
For those who own both Realforce RGB and a Topre with more conventional sliders, is it possible to swap them without the plastic housings or do they work only with these one. I don't want to use a keyboard with a plastic housing. Such a downgrade in my opinion...
Maybe if there is a lot of demand, but not a lot will own them vs this which has been around for years.
You should be able to swap just the sliders (or pick up JTK Sliders or something).
Post by: xondat on Thu, 21 December 2017, 22:02:51
- 6 degrees/flat, 9 degrees/raised, or in between?
- Recess for sticker/badge, something custom, or nothing?
- Brass weight?
- Dip switch cutout?
Post by: afrokobe on Thu, 21 December 2017, 22:10:09
- nothing or something don't really matter; could do custom nameplate in brass if doing brass weight ;)
- yes, absolutely
- sure
Post by: Wetherbee on Thu, 21 December 2017, 22:14:45
There are a few things that need to be decided, so to save people posting every time I ask something, I'll just put all the "pending" things here:
- 6 degrees/flat, 9 degrees/raised, or in between?
- Recess for sticker/badge, something custom, or nothing?
- Brass weight?
- Dip switch cutout?
No idea on degrees.. I've never used the stock case, only ever used the Digilog which has a fixed height.
No for recess, or make it optional for those who must have it.
Brass plate will be enough weight. (Or even an aluminum one if you go in that direction). Realforce in aluminum is heavy AF already. Adding even more weight would just be for bragging rights over who has the heaviest non-portable small keyboard. I won't complain if it has a brass plate, though, as long as it is clean and not obnoxious with branding. Some of the brass plates coming out these days are ridiculously ugly - thankfully they are on the bottom.
No dip switch cutouts. How often are people changing their dip switches? You set it once and then never use it again. Sound could attenuate out of the hole like an instrument, no hole means more solid feel and sound (maybe not a real concern given that the whole bottom is closed in Noxary's design). What if the RGB TKL can be adapted to this case in the future with a custom plate or an adapter? If so, the dip switches probably won't be in the same place, leaving an empty hole at the bottom.
Just my humble opinion.
Post by: avid on Thu, 21 December 2017, 23:05:03
no branding.
no weight.
no dip.
I think 6 degree is most important. How many are using the RF with feet up?
Post by: Wetherbee on Thu, 21 December 2017, 23:12:04
6 degree.
no branding.
no weight.
no dip.
That's a much more succinct way to express my thoughts as well.
A case designed for 6 degrees can always be changed to support 9 degree with some feet (may look ugly but whatevs), but going the other way around is impossible without cutting off aluminum.
Post by: jb1830 on Fri, 22 December 2017, 00:02:02
Definitely 6 degrees. Small brass piece with your logo in the factory location would be sweet. No big weight. No dip cutout, that's a set it and forget it type thing.
Post by: moh18one on Fri, 22 December 2017, 00:41:33
2. Why not?
3. Neutral
4. Dip switches aren't important especially if the board is fully programmable (in the future)
Post by: nurupism on Fri, 22 December 2017, 01:44:09
2. No opinion on branding
3. Yes for weight
4. Either is fine for dip switch
Post by: avid on Fri, 22 December 2017, 01:48:11
Post by: pixelpusher on Fri, 22 December 2017, 02:08:52
6 degree.
no branding.
no weight.
no dip.
I think 6 degree is most important. How many are using the RF with feet up?
I prefer to have the feet out on mine, raising the keyboard to 9 degrees. The bottom row profile feels wrong at 6 degrees to me
Post by: duynguyenle on Fri, 22 December 2017, 04:58:03
2. Small recess at the same location and size as the OG RF logo
3. I'm indifferent about weight
4. No dip switches
Post by: poolside on Fri, 22 December 2017, 07:08:22
2. larger bottom bezel to balance out the large empty forehead area?
3. I need the weight. Plain bottoms look so empty
4. No DIP cutout? Some TKL Realforces don't have any DIP switches
Is the OG Realforce logo badge just a sticker or something stiffer?
Post by: nmur on Fri, 22 December 2017, 08:39:11
There are a few things that need to be decided, so to save people posting every time I ask something, I'll just put all the "pending" things here:
- 6 degrees/flat, 9 degrees/raised, or in between?
- Recess for sticker/badge, something custom, or nothing?
- Brass weight?
- Dip switch cutout?
preference for 9 deg
indifferent for the rest
Post by: pr0ximity on Fri, 22 December 2017, 08:56:11
Noxary engraved logo in place of the badge would be best imo
I'd prefer an option for no weight/alu weight, but I'd be cool with an empty cutout where a weight would be
Indifferent on dip switches
Post by: vegs on Fri, 22 December 2017, 11:13:41
- 6 deg
- Nothing, no strong opinion
- Yes!
- No need (I will be getting the nordic version anyways which doesn't have dip switches)
Post by: afrokobe on Fri, 22 December 2017, 11:32:51
For everyone voting for weight, keep in mind its +50 in price.bring it on, I'm game
Post by: braidn on Fri, 22 December 2017, 11:55:16
Post by: mason on Fri, 22 December 2017, 12:12:07
Post by: xondat on Fri, 22 December 2017, 12:40:11
- There are more for 6 degrees (more than triple), so I can see it going that way. I personally use raised, so I might figure out a solution that isn't ugly.
- Still not sure on the branding. I think it's nice, but not sure if it's needed.
- Brass is even so far, so keep the thoughts coming in. I'm still not sure on this so all opinions are valued :-*
- Pretty clear where people stand with the dip switch cutout, everyone is either no or indifferent. There will be no cutout.
Any strong feelings on either side? LMK.
Post by: Wetherbee on Fri, 22 December 2017, 12:43:15
Post by: afrokobe on Fri, 22 December 2017, 13:15:14
Post by: norbauer on Fri, 22 December 2017, 13:20:49
Post by: pvd on Fri, 22 December 2017, 15:35:40
Post by: xondat on Wed, 27 December 2017, 19:32:02
Main goal is programmable, with the secondaries being a bit more advanced (genuinely don't know if they're possible, but aim high). The two musts are USB-C and being a "bolt on" mod (aka only having to plug it in, no modification of anything original needed, and can be reverted).
Still not sure on the weight or branding. Weight will most likely be a price thing, so got to figure that out later on.
Post by: le_wraith on Wed, 27 December 2017, 19:36:35
There are a few things that need to be decided, so to save people posting every time I ask something, I'll just put all the "pending" things here:
- 6 degrees/flat, 9 degrees/raised, or in between?
IN BETWEEN
- Recess for sticker/badge, something custom, or nothing?
I'D LOVE THE OPTION OF A BADGE WITH "NOXARY-RF" OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AS LONG AS IT'S MINIMALISTIC AND LOOKS DOPE . WHEN IT COMES TO A REALFORCE, I WANT IT TO LOOK EVIL AND MYSTERIOUS IN A SOMEWHAT LO-FI WAY, SO THE BADGE HAS TO WORK WITHIN THAT AESTHETIC
- Brass weight?
YES!!! I SEE THIS AS CRITICAL. HEAVIER & BRASSIER = BETTER
- Dip switch cutout?
NO.
[/list]
Post by: xondat on Tue, 02 January 2018, 10:08:51
I have concerns with long prototyping turnaround with my current manufacturer, it'd delay this for a month upwards. The reason I would prototype is so I know everything physically works. We already know the quality with the manufacturer is very good, so that isn't a thing that I'd be testing.
My current thoughts are to either look locally for a CNC aluminum prototype, or to look into 3D printing. Not sure whether I'd anodize the aluminum prototype, as it would take time for no physical change. Only downside is that people are usually judging whether to join a buy because of what the finished product looks like, and I won't be able to show that. Let me know your thoughts please.
In short: alternative prototyping to save time, prototype may be "uglier", but no massive waiting periods. Thoughts?
Post by: pixelpusher on Tue, 02 January 2018, 10:22:27
Hey, got a question for everyone -
I have concerns with long prototyping turnaround with my current manufacturer, it'd delay this for a month upwards. The reason I would prototype is so I know everything physically works. We already know the quality with the manufacturer is very good, so that isn't a thing that I'd be testing.
My current thoughts are to either look locally for a CNC aluminum prototype, or to look into 3D printing. Not sure whether I'd anodize the aluminum prototype, as it would take time for no physical change. Only downside is that people are usually judging whether to join a buy because of what the finished product looks like, and I won't be able to show that. Let me know your thoughts please.
In short: alternative prototyping to save time, prototype may be "uglier", but no massive waiting periods. Thoughts?
I'm fine with raw aluminum for prototype. LZ boards have run this way, no? Just show the raw cnc case and show images of the finish from the x60 stating they will be done by the same factory.
Post by: dgneo on Tue, 02 January 2018, 10:23:47
Hey, got a question for everyone -
I have concerns with long prototyping turnaround with my current manufacturer, it'd delay this for a month upwards. The reason I would prototype is so I know everything physically works. We already know the quality with the manufacturer is very good, so that isn't a thing that I'd be testing.
My current thoughts are to either look locally for a CNC aluminum prototype, or to look into 3D printing. Not sure whether I'd anodize the aluminum prototype, as it would take time for no physical change. Only downside is that people are usually judging whether to join a buy because of what the finished product looks like, and I won't be able to show that. Let me know your thoughts please.
In short: alternative prototyping to save time, prototype may be "uglier", but no massive waiting periods. Thoughts?
Personally think it's a good idea, seeing as it's just a prototype
Post by: avid on Tue, 02 January 2018, 10:46:20
Post by: dreamx420 on Tue, 02 January 2018, 10:50:49
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: le_wraith on Tue, 02 January 2018, 10:51:27
Hey, got a question for everyone -
I have concerns with long prototyping turnaround with my current manufacturer, it'd delay this for a month upwards. The reason I would prototype is so I know everything physically works. We already know the quality with the manufacturer is very good, so that isn't a thing that I'd be testing.
My current thoughts are to either look locally for a CNC aluminum prototype, or to look into 3D printing. Not sure whether I'd anodize the aluminum prototype, as it would take time for no physical change. Only downside is that people are usually judging whether to join a buy because of what the finished product looks like, and I won't be able to show that. Let me know your thoughts please.
In short: alternative prototyping to save time, prototype may be "uglier", but no massive waiting periods. Thoughts?
I agree with the idea of alternative (raw or 3d printed) prototyping. How much faster is 3D printing than a raw aluminum prototype? If 3d printing is significantly faster it might be the way to go (albeit the downside is that people will have less of an idea of what the finished product might look like than if you did the aluminum prototype).
Post by: Puddsy on Tue, 02 January 2018, 11:34:27
Hey, got a question for everyone -
I have concerns with long prototyping turnaround with my current manufacturer, it'd delay this for a month upwards. The reason I would prototype is so I know everything physically works. We already know the quality with the manufacturer is very good, so that isn't a thing that I'd be testing.
My current thoughts are to either look locally for a CNC aluminum prototype, or to look into 3D printing. Not sure whether I'd anodize the aluminum prototype, as it would take time for no physical change. Only downside is that people are usually judging whether to join a buy because of what the finished product looks like, and I won't be able to show that. Let me know your thoughts please.
In short: alternative prototyping to save time, prototype may be "uglier", but no massive waiting periods. Thoughts?
I'm fine with raw aluminum for prototype. LZ boards have run this way, no? Just show the raw cnc case and show images of the finish from the x60 stating they will be done by the same factory.
it's a new factory (i hope)
koreans usually do raw prototypes cause they've had the same shops for ages
a lot of early boards were prototyped in wood, not aluminum
Post by: xondat on Tue, 02 January 2018, 11:47:10
@le_wraith, I haven't looked into 3D printing personally, but I know of people that've had same week order to delivery.
I just spoke to Leandren, and it's realistic to get samples made in 3 weeks. 268 took longer because of a mistake they made (I must've missed this info earlier on which has lead to my above question).
Thanks for the feedback all, every comment is valuable at this stage :-* If you have anything you want to say about the design, or breakout PCB etc, please do so.
Tiny update on the angle of the board, I've been using 6 degrees/flat for the past couple of days and I think I'm used to it, so the XRF will 95% be stock 6 degrees. I'm still interested in pursuing something to raise it for 9 degrees, but it has to be done perfectly otherwise it won't make it to production. I've yet to think of a decent way to do it, so if you really want 9 deg, and you think you have an elegant solution, let me know!
Post by: avid on Tue, 02 January 2018, 12:33:48
-do not like the "realforce" logo cutout. Would much prefer a clean front.
-have you considered making the side edges thicker?
Rest looks really good :thumb:
Post by: Puddsy on Tue, 02 January 2018, 12:35:14
design:
-do not like the "realforce" logo cutout. Would much prefer a clean front.
-have you considered making the side edges thicker?
no more huge bezels pls thanks
Post by: xondat on Tue, 02 January 2018, 12:48:54
design:
-do not like the "realforce" logo cutout. Would much prefer a clean front.
-have you considered making the side edges thicker?
Rest looks really good :thumb:
Cutout - fair. If I can afford two tops, I will get one with, and one without.
Side edges - why? I'm aiming for minimum change from the stock case, whilst keeping my aesthetic.
Post by: Air tree on Tue, 02 January 2018, 13:18:50
Post by: xondat on Fri, 19 January 2018, 23:47:32
Spent the past 5 hours redoing most of the fundamentals, this'll be close to what the sample looks like. Still got a couple things to do though. I hope to have one in time for the UK meetup ^-^
(https://i.imgur.com/Ewb10xQ.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/95I08Gh.png)
Nothing really looks different (as with all my things when I start again) so I'll explain a little.
- I updated the mockup plate to a normal 86u layout so I don't confuse anyone again.
- Removed name tag for now, not sure whether I want it there or not.
- Finally placed USB position, it's now in the standard horizontal position as A.87.
- Added place for the breakout PCB too.
- Mounting now just makes more sense, was a little weird before.
- Actually added screws to hold the case together.
- Kept it 6 degrees.
- Increase chamfer + rounded edge sizing to make it look a little smaller & neater.
- Kept it low, think it's a 16mm front face.
- Lots of other minor things that aren't worth going into :confused:
Now for some potentially bad news.
I won't be going forward with the brass weight. I want to keep it simple in order to keep the price down. I don't think the case needs to be $300+ considering the cost of the internals anyway. Still toying with the idea that Duck uses (having a cutout but no weight), but I'd make the brass optional. Not sure.
The worst news is that I'm not sure when I can run the group buy. I was going to get it going relatively soon, but as I've unexpectedly started X60 R, I cannot have more than 2 GBs open at once (a rule enforced by the mods for decent reasons). So either I run this off GH, or wait a couple months (or longer, depending on when I complete 268).
On that topic, someone has asked if they could pay for an extra prototype for them to have, which I'm completely fine with, so if that's something that's interesting, then you know what to do.
Sorry for the ramble, but that's everything I have to update on! :-*
Post by: megaforce on Tue, 23 January 2018, 21:50:06
Post by: le_wraith on Tue, 23 January 2018, 22:22:36
Post by: MMKB on Wed, 24 January 2018, 00:16:30
(https://www.beoplay.com/~/media/product_pages/a1/gallery/small/small_1.jpg)
Post by: xondat on Sun, 28 January 2018, 09:39:28
This will hopefully be the 1st of the 2 prototypes I plan to do. This one is mainly getting the fundamentals down (plate fitment, bezel fitment, general PCB component clearance, etc). The 2nd prototype will focus on refining everything (such as typing feel, breakout board fitment, USB hole, etc).
Hopefully there will be pictures very soon :))
Post by: pixelpusher on Sun, 28 January 2018, 12:09:24
Sent off the files for the first prototype last night. I'm hoping it'll be possible to get it before I go to the UK meetup later next month (on the 24th).
This will hopefully be the 1st of the 2 prototypes I plan to do. This one is mainly getting the fundamentals down (plate fitment, bezel fitment, general PCB component clearance, etc). The 2nd prototype will focus on refining everything (such as typing feel, breakout board fitment, USB hole, etc).
Hopefully there will be pictures very soon :))
Thanks for the update. I've been dome swapping my 87u over the past few weeks. Started with light BKE redux, then ultralight. Probably putting stock 55g domes back in tomorrow. They're just so elegant. Looking forward to the prototype!
Post by: rjuju on Mon, 29 January 2018, 12:31:29
Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
Post by: sairex on Mon, 29 January 2018, 16:23:32
Post by: bbrotha on Mon, 29 January 2018, 17:03:40
Post by: poolside on Mon, 29 January 2018, 17:51:43
The 2nd prototype will focus on refining everything (such as typing feel, brass weight, breakout board fitment, USB hole, etc).
Don't let the underside be a blank slate; it has to shine :'(
Post by: xondat on Tue, 30 January 2018, 12:10:22
I知 very interested!
Im sticking around,
I'm interested!
Thanks! :-*
The 2nd prototype will focus on refining everything (such as typing feel, brass weight, breakout board fitment, USB hole, etc).
Don't let the underside be a blank slate; it has to shine :'(
We'll see :'(
I think it's already close to 2kg, so room for expansion. Will see cost wise.
Going to prioritize this over other samples/productions at the minute due to the tighter time constraints, which is only a good thing for this. Hopefully it arrives in time, if not, then no problem as it will be shortly after.
Post by: Reluctanse on Tue, 30 January 2018, 15:38:00
Post by: phinix on Tue, 06 February 2018, 06:27:23
I'm a topre lover, so this looks interesting.
I wish old Realforce was mx compatible, so seeing mods like this warms my heart:)
Post by: xondat on Mon, 19 February 2018, 23:19:23
Bad news :'(
There isn't a plug-in way to program the PCB. We thought it would be possible, but since the matrix & controller aren't separate (like they are on the HHKB, which is why Hasu can make it work), there isn't a pleasant way to connect.
This does lead to some good news though...
We'll be attempting to do a fully custom PCB. It'll take a while, but ultimately it's what everyone wants.
I think for now, V1 will be a USB-C adapter (like the Norbatouch), and the case. We can go hard with V2 ;D
Group buy time frame wise for V1 is after X60 R, so expect some news when I get the prototype case, and then when X60 R finishes.
Post by: Puddsy on Tue, 20 February 2018, 02:07:55
We'll be attempting to do a fully custom PCB. It'll take a while, but ultimately it's what everyone wants.
interested to see how this turns out
past attempts not so good, so would be nice to see this taken to fruition
Post by: Wetherbee on Tue, 20 February 2018, 03:00:25
I think for now, V1 will be a USB-C adapter (like the Norbatouch), and the case. We can go hard with V2 ;D
I know I've discussed this with you at some length, but just to emphasize my excitement - I'm absolutely down for V1!!! ESPECIALLY if it is plate-compatible with the Realforce 87U and 86U PCBs. I'd also pick up a few extra plates to replace some of my rusted ones (yes, Realforce plates rust after only a few years - my dream would be a nice PVD-coated bronze mirror or colorful anodized aluminum plate option with the same tight tolerances and thickness of the original). Since the XRF will be the first Realforce case to include a custom plate, you will also get a lot of interest in your plates from buyers of the Norbaforce and TGR-Zooey as well, assuming the plate will maintain the stock dimensions for compatible mounting. I suspect that, for this and other reasons, the plate by itself will already be a popular product even for users who just want to upgrade their stock Realforce. Throw in the awesomeness of the XRF design and you will have an absolutely killer groupbuy - potential to be the groupbuy of the year which is saying a lot since 2018 is turning out to be insane for this hobby.
Plate cutouts/options for MX stabilizers would also solve the only remaining issue with stem-swapping to MX. After extensive testing with JTK, Novatouch, Adapter-X, Plum87, and Realforce RGB MX slider swaps, I've found that the Realforce RGB stabs are the best solution for stabilizing MX keys on Topre, but that requires cut-outs in the plate for the stabs to attach to. Cherry plate-mount stabs interfere with Topre housings (the part under the plate) and they were designed to work with a different plate thickness than the Realforce. Costar stabs should have the same issue but may be more compatible (indeed, the Plum87 clone uses what appears to be plate-mounted costar stabs but I suspect it isn't that easy to port this design to the Realforce nor is it as functional or quiet as the under-plate RGB stabs designed by Topre). Novatouch stem swaps/housing swaps also work well for some, but GMK keys will slam into the housings on the Enter/Shift/Backspace keys causing a plastic-on-plastic clacking sound, although this can be fixed by filing/shaving down the Novatouch housing (or just using a regular Realforce housing and drilling holes in it, ugly buy effective). SA keys are even worse with the Novatouch - they don't hit the housing like GMK but some of the unstabalized larger keys can completely pop off just with regular typing because they are only attached on one of their three stems and the fit tolerances aren't always tight. I've had to use cling wrap/saran wrap on the sliders to keep SA keys seated on the right shift, for example. Similar issues have been posted on Geekhack and deskthority with SA keys. MX stabilizers would solve all of these issues.
The only challenge with MX stab support is that you would need to include a 7u (86U) and/or 6u (87U) custom stabilizer wire with the plate, as the stock Realforce RGB spacebar wire is 6.25u wide which isn't compatible with either the 87U or 86U PCB. If given the option, the 86U + 7u wire would be my preference for proper Tsangan support and SA set compatibility (not to mention winkeyless), but the 87U + 6u wire would work with most popular GMK sets now that they come with 6u center-stem spacebars. Ideally both options would be available on one plate but that will depend on the plate design and if the various options interfere with each other or not (options being one or more of either 86U Topre, 86U MX, 87U Topre, and/or 87U MX). The tricky design part is that MX stabs all work with with 1u Topre housings, but users who will not be using MX but who stick with Topre or HiPro keys will still need support for the larger 2u housings on the Backspace, Enter, and Shift keys of both 86U and 87U (the odd 1.5u housing on the 86U Caps Lock can just be easily replaced with a 1u housing as it accomplishes nothing). The design challenge is to see if all of this can be done with a universal plate, a modular plate, or with two or more different plate options. I have faith though that a solution is workable, though there is some trickiness (87U has holes for LEDs and a badly designed left control housing, both issues which are not present on the 86U). I also haven't even mentioned (on purpose) the 89U/91U JIS or 88U ISO layouts which are much less popular but which likely have a small but vocal following. I believe that 99% of Geekhack users would be satisfied with 86U/87U coverage. There will always be that one weeb with a Nissho keyset who will be vocal about supporting the JIS layout and some viking from Norway who threatens to burn down your house if you don't support ISO.
So far I haven't found the need to reprogram any keys on the Realforce, so I'm fine for the V1 to not be programmable, but I understand that there are many who like Dvorak/Colemak or other unique layouts on a TKL and they will eventually want it. The V2 with a custom PCB would of course require the ability to custom program it and will be very interesting but it sounds like more R&D will be needed, as many have tried and failed on this route but I'm sure some brilliant PCB designer could figure it out.
I think that your plan is fantastic. I fully endorse going down the V1 route with a later V2 as a stretch effort. They have the potential to be very different products, as the V2 would give you complete freedom to do things people have long felt were impossible (HHKB case, for example). I also like that the XRF will benefit from many lessons learned on the earlier Noxary releases and the opportunity to do some custom anodes and cerakoting can really differentiate the product. For me, though, the opportunity to get the plate right is the biggest selling point and I'm hoping we'll be able to pick up extra plates for all those Realforce users out there who have issues with rusting or issues with converting to MX in a way that is truly satisfying. Even a die-hard MX aficionado will tell you that the best MX tactile switch will never compare to the tactility of BKE Topre. We just need to bridge that last gap that is the plate and the stabilized key support for MX compatibility so folks can use their custom keysets without compromising. It would also be awesome if the plate was available in PVD (if brass) or in various anodes (if aluminum) to enable custom a e s t h e t i c s. The challenge there is getting the tolerances perfect so that the Realforce slider housings are tight-fitting to the plate. Too thin and users complain of a "rattly" and wobbly feeling like the stock Novatouch. Too thick and housings won't attach/sit properly.
Anyways, keep up the amazing work. Despite my enthusiasm for the more technical aspects of the design and compatibility, the form factor and overall design of the XRF case itself is truly beautiful. This is a great time to be a Topre fan. We've been waiting a very, very long time for custom groupbuys to show Topre some love. Lets make 2018 the year that Topre fans rejoice.
Post by: Wetherbee on Tue, 20 February 2018, 05:00:30
Similarly, there is also the opportunity to include an XRF Numpad add-on option to host the Realforce Numpad (the Realforce Numpad PCB has pads for both 21U and 23U support), using the same design language as the Noxary 220 numpad.
Post by: xondat on Mon, 19 March 2018, 10:28:44
First of all, massive thank you to Wetherbee for 1) motivating me, and 2) sending me two boards to reverse engineer and make things for.
Here is the result of way too much work:
(https://i.imgur.com/LA4pJZ6.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/UoiCvkK.jpg)
This is a plate that uses RGB housings & stabilizers, and uses the 86u PCB & case.
Some changes are needed, but functionally, it's great. This enables so much more, so I'm very happy it's turned out as expected first time.
Post by: dgneo on Mon, 19 March 2018, 10:36:20
Post by: dallman5 on Mon, 19 March 2018, 10:50:43
I assume this is going to require custom bent stab wires for the spacebar? I know the 86u uses a 6u wire but I have no experience with the RF RGB.
Post by: clasicks on Mon, 19 March 2018, 10:58:04
sidenote: you say its using rgb housings, does this render that specific plate design useless for 87u rf housings? or are the interchangeable
Post by: clorex on Mon, 19 March 2018, 11:07:04
This isn't deadWhat's the benefit of using RF RGB slider housings as opposed to the regular opaque black RF ones?
First of all, massive thank you to Wetherbee for 1) motivating me, and 2) sending me two boards to reverse engineer and make things for.
Here is the result of way too much work:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/LA4pJZ6.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/UoiCvkK.jpg)
This is a plate that uses RGB housings & stabilizers, and uses the 86u PCB & case.
Some changes are needed, but functionally, it's great. This enables so much more, so I'm very happy it's turned out as expected first time.
After extensive testing with JTK, Novatouch, Adapter-X, Plum87, and Realforce RGB MX slider swapsOff topic: which MX sliders did you think were better -- NVT or RGB? Or was there no difference?
(P.S. Not talking about stabs in either question.)
Post by: p_blaze on Mon, 19 March 2018, 11:09:52
This isn't dead :pWow. All your boards need to have bezels like this to show off the quality
First of all, massive thank you to Wetherbee for 1) motivating me, and 2) sending me two boards to reverse engineer and make things for.
Here is the result of way too much work:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/LA4pJZ6.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/UoiCvkK.jpg)
This is a plate that uses RGB housings & stabilizers, and uses the 86u PCB & case.
Some changes are needed, but functionally, it's great. This enables so much more, so I'm very happy it's turned out as expected first time.
Post by: Puddsy on Mon, 19 March 2018, 11:45:46
This isn't dead :p
First of all, massive thank you to Wetherbee for 1) motivating me, and 2) sending me two boards to reverse engineer and make things for.
Here is the result of way too much work:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/LA4pJZ6.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/UoiCvkK.jpg)
This is a plate that uses RGB housings & stabilizers, and uses the 86u PCB & case.
Some changes are needed, but functionally, it's great. This enables so much more, so I'm very happy it's turned out as expected first time.
looks great
Post by: bthezebra on Mon, 19 March 2018, 14:56:59
Post by: moh18one on Mon, 19 March 2018, 18:25:43
Let me touch this beautyyyyy!!!
Post by: nmur on Mon, 19 March 2018, 19:36:43
This isn't dead :p
First of all, massive thank you to Wetherbee for 1) motivating me, and 2) sending me two boards to reverse engineer and make things for.
Here is the result of way too much work:Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/LA4pJZ6.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/UoiCvkK.jpg)
This is a plate that uses RGB housings & stabilizers, and uses the 86u PCB & case.
Some changes are needed, but functionally, it's great. This enables so much more, so I'm very happy it's turned out as expected first time.
woa
man i need to pickup an 86u just for the pcb
somehow
Post by: H3NT4I on Mon, 19 March 2018, 20:55:59
Post by: xondat on Mon, 19 March 2018, 21:23:08
This is very promising, I'm really interested to hear how it feels!
I assume this is going to require custom bent stab wires for the spacebar? I know the 86u uses a 6u wire but I have no experience with the RF RGB.
Unfortunately the manufacturer of the plate (they're local) forgot to thread the holes, so currently waiting on some nuts to secure the PCB & plate together, so I'll give typing thoughts after that.
Yes, it's going to require 6u and 7u wires. Since the stabilizer is actually offset, and thinner than usual, they have to be especially manufactured. Currently working on this, but I have to do some hand bent prototypes.
What's the benefit of using RF RGB slider housings as opposed to the regular opaque black RF ones?After extensive testing with JTK, Novatouch, Adapter-X, Plum87, and Realforce RGB MX slider swapsOff topic: which MX sliders did you think were better -- NVT or RGB? Or was there no difference?
(P.S. Not talking about stabs in either question.)
The benefit of using RGB housings is because they come with the MX stabilizers. There is no point using (for example) JTK sliders in black housings with RGB stabilizers to achieve MX keysets.
My ideal situation is to only have to harvest ONE board. If you want to use MX keycaps, then the RGB is the one you get; if you want Topre keycaps, then a normal 86/87u will do.
I can't speak for Wetherbee, but I do know that the RGB sliders are extremely smooth. It also goes to my 2nd point of only having to harvest one board. There is also the problem of NVT not being made any more - there is no point making something the only option when it's becoming increasingly rare.
Those mounting points look like they were a pain to achieve properly, great work!
Absolute pain. I did get the top points slightly wrong. I know what to adjust though.
thats what i call progress!
sidenote: you say its using rgb housings, does this render that specific plate design useless for 87u rf housings? or are the interchangeable
Black vs RGB housings aren't the same size, so I'd have to do 2 plates per layout - one for black housings, and one for RGB housings. This would have to happen due to the stabilizer situation anyway.
Aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh
Let me touch this beautyyyyy!!!
Hopefully this year! Won't stop till I've achieved what I want to.
woa
man i need to pickup an 86u just for the pcb
somehow
Ahhh... Imagine a world where PCBs are custom too :'(
Thanks for the comments & support, it's very motivating even after the thread has been quiet for a month.
I guess my manufacturer never got around to the case prototype because of CNY, which is fine as it needs adjustments with the knowledge I now have, but hopefully can get one in hand soon.
Post by: megaforce on Tue, 20 March 2018, 10:22:17
Post by: duynguyenle on Tue, 20 March 2018, 11:20:34
Post by: xondat on Tue, 20 March 2018, 12:31:39
Could do Costar stabs like the Royal Kludge boards (Cherry plate-mounted might work too)
Would rather have to only source parts from one board for ultimate ease :p
Post by: Wetherbee on Tue, 20 March 2018, 17:43:17
Could do Costar stabs like the Royal Kludge boards (Cherry plate-mounted might work too)
The Topre-designed stabs are much better than Costar. :thumb:
Post by: clasicks on Wed, 21 March 2018, 15:18:47
nice
wait, did you finally find an imsto set?
gdi it quoted the wrong ****ing post. im dumb.
Post by: xondat on Wed, 21 March 2018, 15:45:06
nice
wait, did you finally find an imsto set?
gdi it quoted the wrong ****ing post. im dumb.
lol idiot
Post by: Wetherbee on Wed, 21 March 2018, 17:54:40
Off topic: which MX sliders did you think were better -- NVT or RGB? Or was there no difference?
Best MX slider: RGB
Runner-up: Novatouch
RGB is also readily available in most markets.
Do not try the kbdfans Adapter-X or JTK sliders, you will just throw them away once you notice all of your keys are crooked.
Post by: xondat on Thu, 22 March 2018, 09:24:51
(https://i.imgur.com/ET4NQhh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/iTSZqEf.jpg)
It works ;D
Still don't have a 7u wire, and I forgot the ground so it's jammed into one of the screws, but otherwise it's great. Really different sound profile, feel is a bit different too but would have to try side by side.
Post by: clasicks on Thu, 22 March 2018, 10:27:31
Post by: dgneo on Thu, 22 March 2018, 10:29:52
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/z05qE8x.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ET4NQhh.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/iTSZqEf.jpg)
It works ;D
Still don't have a 7u wire, and I forgot the ground so it's jammed into one of the screws, but otherwise it's great. Really different sound profile, feel is a bit different too but would have to try side by side.
Looks good, now lets see one with proper Topre sliders/caps!
Post by: crtexcnndrm99 on Thu, 22 March 2018, 15:20:29
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/z05qE8x.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ET4NQhh.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/iTSZqEf.jpg)
It works ;D
Still don't have a 7u wire, and I forgot the ground so it's jammed into one of the screws, but otherwise it's great. Really different sound profile, feel is a bit different too but would have to try side by side.
Oh yes. Just seeing it with proper caps is very exciting. :D
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: itsundone on Sun, 25 March 2018, 07:52:38
Post by: moh18one on Sun, 25 March 2018, 10:42:57
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/z05qE8x.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/ET4NQhh.jpg)Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/iTSZqEf.jpg)
It works ;D
Still don't have a 7u wire, and I forgot the ground so it's jammed into one of the screws, but otherwise it's great. Really different sound profile, feel is a bit different too but would have to try side by side.
<3
Post by: dgreekstallion on Thu, 05 April 2018, 12:40:52
Post by: GeneriksGiraffe on Sun, 08 April 2018, 17:01:22
I think for now, V1 will be a USB-C adapter (like the Norbatouch), and the case. We can go hard with V2 ;D
I know I've discussed this with you at some length, but just to emphasize my excitement - I'm absolutely down for V1!!! ESPECIALLY if it is plate-compatible with the Realforce 87U and 86U PCBs. I'd also pick up a few extra plates to replace some of my rusted ones (yes, Realforce plates rust after only a few years - my dream would be a nice PVD-coated bronze mirror or colorful anodized aluminum plate option with the same tight tolerances and thickness of the original). Since the XRF will be the first Realforce case to include a custom plate, you will also get a lot of interest in your plates from buyers of the Norbaforce and TGR-Zooey as well, assuming the plate will maintain the stock dimensions for compatible mounting. I suspect that, for this and other reasons, the plate by itself will already be a popular product even for users who just want to upgrade their stock Realforce. Throw in the awesomeness of the XRF design and you will have an absolutely killer groupbuy - potential to be the groupbuy of the year which is saying a lot since 2018 is turning out to be insane for this hobby.
Plate cutouts/options for MX stabilizers would also solve the only remaining issue with stem-swapping to MX. After extensive testing with JTK, Novatouch, Adapter-X, Plum87, and Realforce RGB MX slider swaps, I've found that the Realforce RGB stabs are the best solution for stabilizing MX keys on Topre, but that requires cut-outs in the plate for the stabs to attach to. Cherry plate-mount stabs interfere with Topre housings (the part under the plate) and they were designed to work with a different plate thickness than the Realforce. Costar stabs should have the same issue but may be more compatible (indeed, the Plum87 clone uses what appears to be plate-mounted costar stabs but I suspect it isn't that easy to port this design to the Realforce nor is it as functional or quiet as the under-plate RGB stabs designed by Topre). Novatouch stem swaps/housing swaps also work well for some, but GMK keys will slam into the housings on the Enter/Shift/Backspace keys causing a plastic-on-plastic clacking sound, although this can be fixed by filing/shaving down the Novatouch housing (or just using a regular Realforce housing and drilling holes in it, ugly buy effective). SA keys are even worse with the Novatouch - they don't hit the housing like GMK but some of the unstabalized larger keys can completely pop off just with regular typing because they are only attached on one of their three stems and the fit tolerances aren't always tight. I've had to use cling wrap/saran wrap on the sliders to keep SA keys seated on the right shift, for example. Similar issues have been posted on Geekhack and deskthority with SA keys. MX stabilizers would solve all of these issues.
The only challenge with MX stab support is that you would need to include a 7u (86U) and/or 6u (87U) custom stabilizer wire with the plate, as the stock Realforce RGB spacebar wire is 6.25u wide which isn't compatible with either the 87U or 86U PCB. If given the option, the 86U + 7u wire would be my preference for proper Tsangan support and SA set compatibility (not to mention winkeyless), but the 87U + 6u wire would work with most popular GMK sets now that they come with 6u center-stem spacebars. Ideally both options would be available on one plate but that will depend on the plate design and if the various options interfere with each other or not (options being one or more of either 86U Topre, 86U MX, 87U Topre, and/or 87U MX). The tricky design part is that MX stabs all work with with 1u Topre housings, but users who will not be using MX but who stick with Topre or HiPro keys will still need support for the larger 2u housings on the Backspace, Enter, and Shift keys of both 86U and 87U (the odd 1.5u housing on the 86U Caps Lock can just be easily replaced with a 1u housing as it accomplishes nothing). The design challenge is to see if all of this can be done with a universal plate, a modular plate, or with two or more different plate options. I have faith though that a solution is workable, though there is some trickiness (87U has holes for LEDs and a badly designed left control housing, both issues which are not present on the 86U). I also haven't even mentioned (on purpose) the 89U/91U JIS or 88U ISO layouts which are much less popular but which likely have a small but vocal following. I believe that 99% of Geekhack users would be satisfied with 86U/87U coverage. There will always be that one weeb with a Nissho keyset who will be vocal about supporting the JIS layout and some viking from Norway who threatens to burn down your house if you don't support ISO.
So far I haven't found the need to reprogram any keys on the Realforce, so I'm fine for the V1 to not be programmable, but I understand that there are many who like Dvorak/Colemak or other unique layouts on a TKL and they will eventually want it. The V2 with a custom PCB would of course require the ability to custom program it and will be very interesting but it sounds like more R&D will be needed, as many have tried and failed on this route but I'm sure some brilliant PCB designer could figure it out.
I think that your plan is fantastic. I fully endorse going down the V1 route with a later V2 as a stretch effort. They have the potential to be very different products, as the V2 would give you complete freedom to do things people have long felt were impossible (HHKB case, for example). I also like that the XRF will benefit from many lessons learned on the earlier Noxary releases and the opportunity to do some custom anodes and cerakoting can really differentiate the product. For me, though, the opportunity to get the plate right is the biggest selling point and I'm hoping we'll be able to pick up extra plates for all those Realforce users out there who have issues with rusting or issues with converting to MX in a way that is truly satisfying. Even a die-hard MX aficionado will tell you that the best MX tactile switch will never compare to the tactility of BKE Topre. We just need to bridge that last gap that is the plate and the stabilized key support for MX compatibility so folks can use their custom keysets without compromising. It would also be awesome if the plate was available in PVD (if brass) or in various anodes (if aluminum) to enable custom a e s t h e t i c s. The challenge there is getting the tolerances perfect so that the Realforce slider housings are tight-fitting to the plate. Too thin and users complain of a "rattly" and wobbly feeling like the stock Novatouch. Too thick and housings won't attach/sit properly.
Anyways, keep up the amazing work. Despite my enthusiasm for the more technical aspects of the design and compatibility, the form factor and overall design of the XRF case itself is truly beautiful. This is a great time to be a Topre fan. We've been waiting a very, very long time for custom groupbuys to show Topre some love. Lets make 2018 the year that Topre fans rejoice.
Yes yes yes yes and yes. The plate is definitely the biggest selling point for me. I already picked up a Norbaforce but I am considering getting another 87U just for this, and also one or two extra plates for the Norba. I need these plates in my life. <3
Post by: xondat on Sun, 08 April 2018, 19:35:30
Been working on the Topre housings themselves, got my first 3D printed prototype but the resolution was too small. I have no spare funds right now, so when I do, I'll be ordering higher resolution prints.
This'll all loop around as I need to understand Topre if I want to do this properly.
I made the adjustments needed with the RF plate, but as with the housings, I have no money, so that can wait too.
So basically, waiting on funding, and then more progress will be made.
Post by: le_wraith on Sun, 08 April 2018, 19:39:17
Since there was a post here, tiny update:
Been working on the Topre housings themselves, got my first 3D printed prototype but the resolution was too small. I have no spare funds right now, so when I do, I'll be ordering higher resolution prints.
This'll all loop around as I need to understand Topre if I want to do this properly.
I made the adjustments needed with the RF plate, but as with the housings, I have no money, so that can wait too.
So basically, waiting on funding, and then more progress will be made.
Dude you should just say how much funding you need and throw up a gofundme or something. I'm sure people will kick in towards. I would.
Post by: xondat on Sun, 08 April 2018, 23:29:48
Since there was a post here, tiny update:
Been working on the Topre housings themselves, got my first 3D printed prototype but the resolution was too small. I have no spare funds right now, so when I do, I'll be ordering higher resolution prints.
This'll all loop around as I need to understand Topre if I want to do this properly.
I made the adjustments needed with the RF plate, but as with the housings, I have no money, so that can wait too.
So basically, waiting on funding, and then more progress will be made.
Dude you should just say how much funding you need and throw up a gofundme or something. I'm sure people will kick in towards. I would.
Appreciate the thought.
I知 not a fan of that type of platform, I don稚 think it痴 suitable for developing something. I prefer to take money when I know I知 producing the best I can.
Feel free to join my Discord and provide motivation, it痴 going to be a long ride :)
https://discord.gg/N2aNvqN
Post by: xondat on Mon, 30 April 2018, 06:37:33
I want to get 280/220 in group buy, so this is my current goal. I'm expecting to have the samples in a couple weeks, so after that I have no more samples in the queue - which puts this next.
I'll order a sample of the case, which again will take a couple of weeks, so realistically, I can expect to have it early June. I'll see what I need to change on the design, if it's major, another sample will be ordered, but if it's minor then it's pretty much group buy time...
On the PCB side, Rozakiin has started work, and I'm sure we'll get some prototypes ordered fairly soon. The PCB probably won't be available for V1 of XRF, but definitely in V2. It is my ultimate end goal with the RF concept.
So still moving, just slowly :p
Post by: nmur on Mon, 30 April 2018, 07:21:03
So some approximate timelines from now...
I want to get 280/220 in group buy, so this is my current goal. I'm expecting to have the samples in a couple weeks, so after that I have no more samples in the queue - which puts this next.
I'll order a sample of the case, which again will take a couple of weeks, so realistically, I can expect to have it early June. I'll see what I need to change on the design, if it's major, another sample will be ordered, but if it's minor then it's pretty much group buy time...
On the PCB side, Rozakiin has started work, and I'm sure we'll get some prototypes ordered fairly soon. The PCB probably won't be available for V1 of XRF, but definitely in V2. It is my ultimate end goal with the RF concept.
So still moving, just slowly :p
nice
any more info on the PCB? or too early?
Post by: xondat on Mon, 30 April 2018, 07:28:20
nice
any more info on the PCB? or too early?
nothing really to report
got to get the basics down before adding complexity
Post by: xondat on Thu, 10 May 2018, 21:52:34
(https://i.imgur.com/opNKJCg.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/2c2jyef.png)
Chamfer or fillet? :p
By the way, the 1st prototype PCB has been ordered.
I'm finalizing the design on this so it's ready when it's time ;)
Post by: Captain Shwah on Thu, 10 May 2018, 21:55:42
Post by: xondat on Mon, 14 May 2018, 10:31:58
PCB has arrived, currently in testing/programming :p
Since 280/220 samples are on the way, I will be ordering the XRF samples when these two arrive.
Post by: hayt on Mon, 14 May 2018, 10:38:51
Going with fillet.
PCB has arrived, currently in testing/programming :p
Since 280/220 samples are on the way, I will be ordering the XRF samples when these two arrive.
Looking forward to seeing the prototypes, keep up the good work!
Post by: xondat on Mon, 14 May 2018, 13:50:32
Going with fillet.
PCB has arrived, currently in testing/programming :p
Since 280/220 samples are on the way, I will be ordering the XRF samples when these two arrive.
Looking forward to seeing the prototypes, keep up the good work!
Will do :-*
Post by: Kerasan on Mon, 14 May 2018, 15:23:26
KMK Labs.
Post by: xondat on Mon, 14 May 2018, 15:41:34
will the plate be compatible with the black housing of the 86U realforce or only with RGB housing? I apologize if it has already been asked but I lost it
The plates are designed for the Realforce case.
Planning these plates so far:
- Black housings 86U
- Black housings 87U
- RGB housings 86U
I might add some more, but unsure right now.
I don't plan to do any plates for RGB boards for now, they aren't popular enough.
Post by: Kerasan on Mon, 14 May 2018, 15:58:36
will the plate be compatible with the black housing of the 86U realforce or only with RGB housing? I apologize if it has already been asked but I lost it
The plates are designed for the Realforce case.
Planning these plates so far:
- Black housings 86U
- Black housings 87U
- RGB housings 86U
I might add some more, but unsure right now.
I don't plan to do any plates for RGB boards for now, they aren't popular enough.
is there a realforce rgb 86u? I lost it
KMK Labs.
Post by: xondat on Mon, 14 May 2018, 16:03:16
will the plate be compatible with the black housing of the 86U realforce or only with RGB housing? I apologize if it has already been asked but I lost it
The plates are designed for the Realforce case.
Planning these plates so far:
- Black housings 86U
- Black housings 87U
- RGB housings 86U
I might add some more, but unsure right now.
I don't plan to do any plates for RGB boards for now, they aren't popular enough.
is there a realforce rgb 86u? I lost it
No, I mean the 86 key layout. So you'd use RGB housings/stabilizers, 86U PCB, custom plate, and RF/XRF case.
Post by: Kerasan on Mon, 14 May 2018, 16:53:57
Thank you
KMK Labs.
Post by: xondat on Mon, 14 May 2018, 16:57:41
ah ok perfect, at the moment I dont own housing and stab rgb and take a realforce rgb just for them mmhhhh.....I will think about it.
Thank you
I think if you have the funds to, you should, but otherwise it isn't too maybe. You do gain stock smoothness and MX functionality.
Post by: thelaughingman on Mon, 14 May 2018, 20:46:37
will the plate be compatible with the black housing of the 86U realforce or only with RGB housing? I apologize if it has already been asked but I lost it
The plates are designed for the Realforce case.
Planning these plates so far:
- Black housings 86U
- Black housings 87U
- RGB housings 86U
I might add some more, but unsure right now.
I don't plan to do any plates for RGB boards for now, they aren't popular enough.
So would the plate support 87U & RGB housing combination? And I assumed, but would like to get your confirmation, that the LCtrl cut out is square already right?
Post by: xondat on Mon, 14 May 2018, 20:48:14
will the plate be compatible with the black housing of the 86U realforce or only with RGB housing? I apologize if it has already been asked but I lost it
The plates are designed for the Realforce case.
Planning these plates so far:
- Black housings 86U
- Black housings 87U
- RGB housings 86U
I might add some more, but unsure right now.
I don't plan to do any plates for RGB boards for now, they aren't popular enough.
So would the plate support 87U & RGB housing combination? And I assumed, but would like to get your confirmation, that the LCtrl cut out is square already right?
Nope, sizing is different. Black housing is longer and thinner.
Still unsure about that cutout.
Post by: thelaughingman on Mon, 14 May 2018, 21:44:20
will the plate be compatible with the black housing of the 86U realforce or only with RGB housing? I apologize if it has already been asked but I lost it
The plates are designed for the Realforce case.
Planning these plates so far:
- Black housings 86U
- Black housings 87U
- RGB housings 86U
I might add some more, but unsure right now.
I don't plan to do any plates for RGB boards for now, they aren't popular enough.
So would the plate support 87U & RGB housing combination? And I assumed, but would like to get your confirmation, that the LCtrl cut out is square already right?
Nope, sizing is different. Black housing is longer and thinner.
Still unsure about that cutout.
I see, so no plate for me this round then. Will keep a close watch on this for further updates. You're awesome :thumb:
Post by: Kerasan on Tue, 15 May 2018, 01:43:30
ah ok perfect, at the moment I dont own housing and stab rgb and take a realforce rgb just for them mmhhhh.....I will think about it.
Thank you
I think if you have the funds to, you should, but otherwise it isn't too maybe. You do gain stock smoothness and MX functionality.
I will modify the rf86u with Novatouch'd (I have a spare for the mod) then I will try to find housing and mx slider of a RealForce rgb.
But I imagine that the plate is not compatible at the same time with both and I have to choose between Black housing and rgb housing, because they have a different size.
Post by: xondat on Fri, 13 July 2018, 20:35:51
V1 prototype case is ready to be made, will be put into production this week. Looks nothing different from the outside but I started again and took a different approach on the internals.
Going to prototype and then change what needs to be changed, make a v2 prototype, and then you can guess what's after that. PCB work isn't happening for now, other projects are more important.
Post by: Wetherbee on Fri, 13 July 2018, 22:50:54
YYEEEAAHHHH!!!
Post by: Gobluebro on Mon, 16 July 2018, 07:40:40
Post by: xondat on Mon, 16 July 2018, 12:44:08
Post by: xondat on Wed, 18 July 2018, 12:01:01
Post by: Allo on Wed, 18 July 2018, 20:07:45
Should get the sample in 10-14 days :thumb:
Anxiously waiting!
Post by: EugeneYap83 on Thu, 19 July 2018, 08:03:24
will the plate be compatible with the black housing of the 86U realforce or only with RGB housing? I apologize if it has already been asked but I lost it
The plates are designed for the Realforce case.
Planning these plates so far:
- Black housings 86U
- Black housings 87U
- RGB housings 86U
I might add some more, but unsure right now.
I don't plan to do any plates for RGB boards for now, they aren't popular enough.
So would the plate support 87U & RGB housing combination? And I assumed, but would like to get your confirmation, that the LCtrl cut out is square already right?
Nope, sizing is different. Black housing is longer and thinner.
Still unsure about that cutout.
Please be square. Please be square. Please be square. Please be square. Please be square.
Post by: xondat on Fri, 20 July 2018, 11:41:02
Please be square. Please be square. Please be square. Please be square. Please be square.
Haha, yeah it's going to be a regular cutout but made to work with the weird housings. I need to assess the prototypes when I get them :)
Post by: xondat on Sat, 28 July 2018, 10:51:31
Sneak peek :-*
Said they should finish Monday (30th), so I might have it late next week.
Post by: Kerasan on Sat, 28 July 2018, 11:00:31
Show Image(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/420924678777995266/472606671928033281/image.jpg)
Sneak peek :-*
Said they should finish Monday (30th), so I might have it late next week.
wow... super clean, it's beutiful.
KMK Labs.
Post by: Kallus on Sun, 29 July 2018, 13:12:07
can you do a plate for the 88u?
Post by: Data on Mon, 30 July 2018, 06:46:12
Post by: xondat on Mon, 30 July 2018, 10:30:45
can you do a plate for the 88u?
If there is demand
Post by: Kallus on Mon, 30 July 2018, 17:08:07
Post by: wholypantalones on Mon, 30 July 2018, 19:41:11
Post by: xondat on Mon, 30 July 2018, 20:30:16
Just from reading previous replies, am I correct in assuming that this won't work on a white case 87u because the black 87u is a different size?
Nah. Black plate refers to the housings types (Black & RGB).
All 84/87/88/89u etc should fit.
Post by: xondat on Fri, 03 August 2018, 18:52:12
Post by: letze on Fri, 03 August 2018, 21:22:51
And BKE domes too.
Years ago, who know topre will be custom-able in the future. There is no end game. :thumb:
Post by: xondat on Tue, 07 August 2018, 09:00:32
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/386225124908466179/476385983781273610/image.jpg)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/386225124908466179/476385627709898752/image.jpg)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/386225124908466179/476386120628961305/image.jpg)
Some quick pictures. Will test fit everything later as I have to swap housings/PCBs over and too much effort rn :p
Post by: Kerasan on Tue, 07 August 2018, 09:06:10
Show Image(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/398457828806754314/476374785748762634/image.jpg)Show Image(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/386225124908466179/476385983781273610/image.jpg)Show Image(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/386225124908466179/476385627709898752/image.jpg)Show Image(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/386225124908466179/476386120628961305/image.jpg)
Some quick pictures. Will test fit everything later as I have to swap housings/PCBs over and too much effort rn :p
......... This is great! :cool:
plates switches are gorgeous :eek:
KMK Labs.
Post by: wholypantalones on Tue, 07 August 2018, 09:57:18
Post by: thelaughingman on Tue, 07 August 2018, 10:32:39
Post by: rkfiske on Tue, 07 August 2018, 10:36:40
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Post by: nmur on Tue, 07 August 2018, 10:52:37
Show Image(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/398457828806754314/476374785748762634/image.jpg)Show Image(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/386225124908466179/476385983781273610/image.jpg)Show Image(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/386225124908466179/476385627709898752/image.jpg)Show Image(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/386225124908466179/476386120628961305/image.jpg)
Some quick pictures. Will test fit everything later as I have to swap housings/PCBs over and too much effort rn :p
looks great dude
Post by: xondat on Tue, 07 August 2018, 11:20:20
Full picture of the case
It's more a proof of concept right now though :)) Messed up the screw sizes for the plate, which means the screw heads are too small for the plate. Not a problem though, everything else has gone as planned and I know what needs adjusting for the V2 prototype.
Will continue working on refining everything to perfection :p
Post by: Lansky on Tue, 07 August 2018, 13:16:23
You have any idea on the pricing of the brass/PVD plate yet?
Post by: xondat on Tue, 07 August 2018, 14:22:36
Looking good!
You have any idea on the pricing of the brass/PVD plate yet?
Nope. It was more of a test to see if it's feasible :)
Post by: Lansky on Tue, 07 August 2018, 14:29:01
Nope. It was more of a test to see if it's feasible :)
Well, they look great! I'll be keeping an eye out.
Post by: crtexcnndrm99 on Tue, 07 August 2018, 18:35:22
Woah yes. I壇 wanna stick an IBM or terminal board sticker on that top chin.. (make the chin larger..?) :PShow Image(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/398457828806754314/476422897334747137/image.jpg)
Full picture of the case
It's more a proof of concept right now though :)) Messed up the screw sizes for the plate, which means the screw heads are too small for the plate. Not a problem though, everything else has gone as planned and I know what needs adjusting for the V2 prototype.
Will continue working on refining everything to perfection :p
Post by: Kallus on Wed, 08 August 2018, 09:12:40
Post by: xondat on Wed, 08 August 2018, 09:24:10
How hard would it be to support iso with the case? I think that the iso board has the blockers in the same place although it may look kind of goofy its a compromise i'd be able to live with. I would really love to have iso support.
The case accepts any Realforce (R1) plate, so you can use whatever you want.
There will be a version with blockers, and without.
Post by: Kallus on Wed, 08 August 2018, 09:37:55
Post by: funkybeat7 on Thu, 09 August 2018, 10:34:57
Post by: Gacct on Thu, 09 August 2018, 14:32:11
Post by: EugeneYap83 on Wed, 15 August 2018, 21:55:31
Post by: xondat on Fri, 24 August 2018, 15:05:14
any possibility of a case for the realforce 23u numpad in a design similar to this?
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/420924678777995266/467706801941381121/XRF_v16.png)
It's possible but I don't know what I actually want to focus on right now regarding Topre... Probably just the RF case replacement and then other stuff can follow.
Post by: xondat on Fri, 14 June 2019, 14:42:03
For a brief overview, please see the OP. It's fully accurate, and I expect nothing to change between now and when the GB runs (apart from maybe adding a winkey top piece).
Wall of detail about the past:
The main thing holding this back was factory quality. Previous places I've used just weren't up to the high standard we all expect, so I've been working on 1) finding a very high quality manufacturer, 2) delivering previous buys, and 3) having a solid supply chain. Step 1 is done. Step 2 is in progress (X60 Rs were delivered a few months back, some batches in between, and now some 280s are being delivered shortly), and Step 3 is the important one. I'm finally happy with every step of the way, from placing the order to shipping out boards, which means that I don't feel too bad giving some hope to the project.
The manufacturer only wants 3 colors + silver per batch to maintain a high quality of anodizing. I'll be producing boards with the colors for this anyway, so it makes sense to "tag along" with them. I could do it sooner, but I'm not confident as a whole that I want to take on more right now. This is really "here's what I'm thinking, take it with a grain of salt".
More relevant information with the present:
Design has been completely overhauled. It's now "seamless" (seam on bottom vs the side) which is better for overall aesthetic. All tolerances and measurements were done again - I have a better understand of Topre as a whole. Daughterboard was redeveloped. Lots of smaller other things.
My hopes are to do a smaller round 1 for now, then run a larger round 2 of the back of that. I don't want to take on another massive project right now, but sub 50 units is easy to handle with the good supply chain that's set up. Winkeyless only for now (based on what I've polled on my Discord), since winkey will raise the price, but will think about it if I do something closer to 50 and not 20 units.
And here's the update I posted in my Discord server earlier.
Quote
Wanted to post a quick update - will be ordering the daughterboard prototype in a couple weeks. Getting a working daughterboard is the last step before starting the group buy. Probably will have it working in a 5-6 weeks. Then I'll be happy to start a group buy for it.
As I have it scheduled now, it'd be these three colors: Lightning Silver; Hyper Red; and Meteorite Gray. I'd still like to do a smaller GB, maybe 20-40 units. Approx timeline would be start late July/early August, delivered in late October. Unsure about price, I need to decide unit count (40 is easy due to the supply chain that's currently set up [more units, cheaper GB price]).
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/420924678777995266/589082793435332612/XRF_v6a.png)
This is still in IC, and until it's a GB, I can't really promise anything. Nothing is final timeline wise, but all the information should help to catch up.
Post by: Wetherbee on Fri, 14 June 2019, 14:43:13
Post by: phinix on Fri, 14 June 2019, 17:32:26
So lets register our interest here, we need WK! :)
Post by: Kerasan on Fri, 14 June 2019, 17:41:58
KMK Labs.
Post by: OtherAndrew on Fri, 14 June 2019, 17:42:24
If we gather more buyers, WinKey would be possible:)
So lets register our interest here, we need WK! :)
no
Post by: xondat on Fri, 14 June 2019, 17:56:51
I imagine that by changing the design the plate will no longer be compatible with the original case, is it right?
Still compatible with Realforce Internals. No point doing it otherwise.
Post by: phinix on Fri, 14 June 2019, 18:04:53
If we gather more buyers, WinKey would be possible:)
So lets register our interest here, we need WK! :)
no
Yes
Post by: Dakk1d on Sat, 15 June 2019, 02:26:17
Post by: EMC Labs on Sat, 15 June 2019, 03:54:10
Post by: tomu on Sun, 16 June 2019, 03:29:53
That would be up to the Xondat.If we gather more buyers, WinKey would be possible:)
So lets register our interest here, we need WK! :)
no
Yes
Winkey would definitely be nice, not everyone has access to an 86u and 87u with WKL blockers is not a very good combo in my opinion.
But on the other hand, you have to understand that adding more options would increase the overall risks both for the buyer and the GB runner especially.
Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk
Post by: phinix on Sun, 16 June 2019, 05:37:37
That would be up to the Xondat.If we gather more buyers, WinKey would be possible:)
So lets register our interest here, we need WK! :)
no
Yes
Winkey would definitely be nice, not everyone has access to an 86u and 87u with WKL blockers is not a very good combo in my opinion.
But on the other hand, you have to understand that adding more options would increase the overall risks both for the buyer and the GB runner especially.
Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk
I know - I spoke already with Xondat and this is why I'm asking to check how many people here would like to get WK instead of WKL.
If not this round, then it could be possible in round 2.
Post by: xondat on Sun, 16 June 2019, 08:03:38
Reasons:
- 3 versions to 6 versions
- Less pieces of each top piece for same overall number meaning higher price
- A poll I ran showed 75% WKL, 25% WK
Post by: nguyenhimself on Sun, 16 June 2019, 10:13:11
I'll do a poll before the buy runs, but I'd really like to keep it to one top version.>WKL
Reasons:
- 3 versions to 6 versions
- Less pieces of each top piece for same overall number meaning higher price
- A poll I ran showed 75% WKL, 25% WK
But... Mac users need all 3 mod keys. (http://leancrew.com/all-this/images2017/20171119-Modifier%20keys.jpg).
And no don't tell me to map Capslock to Control. I already mapped that to a better key (https://www.bencodezen.io/blog/the-hyper-key.html).
Damn.
Post by: phinix on Wed, 26 June 2019, 10:35:00
As we confirmed on Discord, WKL case will actually cover left Win key and right Menu key on 87u.
So Win key will still be there. Sweet:)
Post by: bunanapeel on Wed, 26 June 2019, 14:25:01
Post by: EugeneYap83 on Tue, 09 July 2019, 00:03:41
Post by: phinix on Tue, 09 July 2019, 02:52:09
Is this project still going live? Because I really really want that shiny mounting plate
Case - yes, plate - not just now.
Post by: xondat on Tue, 09 July 2019, 10:13:14
Is this project still going live? Because I really really want that shiny mounting plate
Ordering the V2 prototype very shortly, and the daughter board prototype is being ordered this week.
When the GB is live, I'll be doing some "commissions" for the plates. In other words, I'll probably do 5 one offs. I don't want to do series production just yet on plates though.
Post by: xondat on Fri, 26 July 2019, 11:24:49
Daughterboards have been soldered. Still waiting to order the prototype case :'(
Post by: phinix on Fri, 26 July 2019, 13:19:08
Post by: zstsc on Fri, 26 July 2019, 22:16:35
Post by: ihateregister on Thu, 01 August 2019, 17:01:55
Post by: InvidiousIgnoramus on Thu, 01 August 2019, 18:20:39
Post by: bthezebra on Thu, 01 August 2019, 19:16:49
Post by: phinix on Fri, 02 August 2019, 03:02:10
Withdrawn, I thought this was the full size.
Full size?! That would weight like 5kg and cost like ｣500... :confused:
Post by: gminso on Fri, 02 August 2019, 22:46:38
Also, let there be typing demos for diff plate materials plz?
Post by: xondat on Sat, 03 August 2019, 08:17:11
it looks amazing. I am joining for sure. but when will this happen??
Also, let there be typing demos for diff plate materials plz?
Just waiting on previous batch to finish so the prototype can be ordered... once it's ordered it should take 2-3 weeks to produce. Then I can consider the group buy itself.
I'll do typing tests for the plates I have, but I'm not sure I'll be ordering any along with the prototype.
Post by: kema on Sat, 03 August 2019, 09:59:16
Post by: xondat on Sat, 03 August 2019, 10:35:31
Post by: xondat on Thu, 08 August 2019, 12:37:36
Oh and the daughterboard should arrive next week. That's really the last piece in the puzzle, but still want to produce the V2 prototype :thumb:
K fairly sure USPS lost them whilst getting it on the plane. Tracking hasn't updated in a week. Just my luck :rolleyes:
Hiney has spares so will give it a few more days, but not SIL if they're properly lost.
Post by: xondat on Fri, 09 August 2019, 19:17:49
Post by: Dakk1d on Thu, 12 September 2019, 05:36:36
I wanna spend monies on this! Please let me!
Post by: phinix on Thu, 12 September 2019, 05:54:53
We are all waiting for it.
Post by: xondat on Thu, 12 September 2019, 08:46:55
What's the status on this IC?
I wanna spend monies on this! Please let me!
Prototype was ordered a couple weeks back, hoping it's almost done.
Post by: xondat on Thu, 19 September 2019, 15:12:55
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/420924678777995266/624246739800555550/image1.jpg)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/420924678777995266/624247160770396170/image0.jpg)
It's on the way!
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 19 September 2019, 16:30:25
Post by: gminso on Thu, 19 September 2019, 22:43:39
one question, will this fit any other tkl pcbs/plates? like how 60% keyboard work.
Post by: pixelpusher on Thu, 19 September 2019, 23:03:49
:thumb: :thumb:
one question, will this fit any other tkl pcbs/plates? like how 60% keyboard work.
No, only R1 Realforce TKLs.
Post by: saint_james on Fri, 20 September 2019, 00:34:40
ETA: WinKey preferred, if that's even an option at this point. If WKL I'll wait.
Post by: Dakk1d on Fri, 20 September 2019, 03:46:45
Do you have any renders for the gray version?
Post by: xondat on Fri, 20 September 2019, 11:22:48
I want this!
ETA: WinKey preferred, if that's even an option at this point. If WKL I'll wait.
99% sure WK and WKL will both be available.
Yeah this is a day 1 cop. Looks much sleeker then the norbaforce.
Do you have any renders for the gray version?
Colors aren't confirmed yet, finalizing those in the coming days. :)
Post by: Dakk1d on Sat, 21 September 2019, 12:48:35
Colors aren't confirmed yet, finalizing those in the coming days. :)OK, thanks for the info. I'll keep my fingers crossed for a grey version. Would look so good with the stock-RF-caps as well with tons of other sets.
Post by: roguesystem087 on Sat, 21 September 2019, 16:23:05
wooooohooooo open GB already!!
Post by: y2kirk1028 on Sat, 21 September 2019, 20:08:23
Post by: phinix on Sun, 22 September 2019, 13:24:30
Would this work with the Realforce RGB?
Nope, just original Realforce keyboards (first editions).
Post by: xondat on Tue, 24 September 2019, 18:46:14
WK and WKL will both run, and pricing will be announced soon (same price for either). ;)
In the progress of getting final renders done!
When will the actual buy start/end? Nothing is locked in right now, but it's next for sure.
Post by: tonny950111 on Tue, 01 October 2019, 11:49:58
Post by: phinix on Tue, 01 October 2019, 13:41:57
Will this be compatible with Realforce R2 RGB TKL ?
Nope. R1 only. R2 has different pcb and plate shape etc.
Post by: EnthusiastDude on Tue, 01 October 2019, 15:42:49
Post by: phinix on Tue, 01 October 2019, 16:05:20
I am interested in this as well, I'll wait until the price to tell you if I'm in or not. Anyways, looks like a great product!
I can tell you already that you will be in:)
Price wise it is going to be VERY affordable.
Post by: EnthusiastDude on Tue, 01 October 2019, 16:15:02
Post by: xondat on Wed, 02 October 2019, 21:54:57
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/420924678777995266/627200183675125791/image0.jpg)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/420924678777995266/627200182601252874/image1.jpg)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/420924678777995266/627262420401913869/xrf_assembled_3.jpg)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/420924678777995266/627263487571132419/image0.jpg)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/420924678777995266/627280199959969792/image0.jpg)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/420924678777995266/627280283456110592/image0.jpg)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/420924678777995266/628065383659733013/image0.jpg)
Forgot to post pictures here :confused: :confused:
Post by: xondat on Wed, 02 October 2019, 22:42:58
- How much? $369 + shipping.
- What colors? Blue Gray, Lightning Silver, Meteorite Gray
- Winkeyless or Winkey? Both!
- When will the GB open? Aiming to start late October, will update in a week or two.
- How long will orders be open for? 1 month, dates TBA.
- Lead time? 3-4 months from order close.
Post by: gminso on Wed, 02 October 2019, 22:53:10
unlimited run??
Post by: EugeneYap83 on Sun, 06 October 2019, 00:59:51
Post by: xondat on Thu, 10 October 2019, 23:31:37
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
unlimited run??
Yes, no cap (unless I feel there's too many).
Does the GB sell the Mounting plate alone?
No plate in this buy, although I may do something on the side.
Post by: Kerasan on Thu, 10 October 2019, 23:47:48
Post by: Sycomore on Fri, 11 October 2019, 01:01:31
Post by: Dakk1d on Fri, 11 October 2019, 03:39:21
The Blue Gray though is looking super nice. :eek: Might have to go with that one instead...
Post by: phinix on Fri, 11 October 2019, 03:51:38
I was going for the Meteorite Gray but looking at the renders it's looking very very dark.
The Blue Gray though is looking super nice. :eek: Might have to go with that one instead...
Wait wait wait...
I wanted met grey as well, also like blue, but don't get put off by those renders, met grey is not that dark.
Its like this one:
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/398457828806754314/476422897334747137/image.jpg)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/420924678777995266/627501518706180110/image0.jpg?width=812&height=609)
@XONDAT - please confirm
Post by: xondat on Sun, 13 October 2019, 16:17:19
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/465536687465037835/632903320318640141/XRF_Top.jpg)
Some Modern Dolch Light renders, make sure to check it out here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=102911
I was going for the Meteorite Gray but looking at the renders it's looking very very dark.
The Blue Gray though is looking super nice. :eek: Might have to go with that one instead...
Wait wait wait...
I wanted met grey as well, also like blue, but don't get put off by those renders, met grey is not that dark.
Its like this one:Show Image(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/398457828806754314/476422897334747137/image.jpg)
@XONDAT - please confirm
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/420924678777995266/627501518706180110/image0.jpg?width=812&height=609)
It'll be like this gray :thumb:
Post by: xondat on Tue, 15 October 2019, 19:01:05
I'll be posting more angles on my Instagram before and throughout the GB :thumb:
Post by: EugeneYap83 on Tue, 15 October 2019, 22:53:36
No plate in this buy, although I may do something on the side.
Awww.... but still I would be waiting eagerly :D
Please be soon, please be soon, please be soon, please be soon......
Post by: xondat on Tue, 15 October 2019, 23:38:22
No plate in this buy, although I may do something on the side.
Awww.... but still I would be waiting eagerly :D
Please be soon, please be soon, please be soon, please be soon......
Honestly it'd be best to do as a whole separate buy. I'm going to prototype some new plates with slightly different dimensions and see how that goes :thumb:
Post by: phinix on Wed, 16 October 2019, 04:13:57
No plate in this buy, although I may do something on the side.
Awww.... but still I would be waiting eagerly :D
Please be soon, please be soon, please be soon, please be soon......
Honestly it'd be best to do as a whole separate buy. I'm going to prototype some new plates with slightly different dimensions and see how that goes :thumb:
Cool. Would you do ISO plates as well?
Post by: Acereconkeys on Sat, 19 October 2019, 17:48:22
Post by: juliandoucette on Sat, 26 October 2019, 06:58:15
That's way different :-\ .
Can you provide another render to clarify?
Post by: EnthusiastDude on Sat, 26 October 2019, 07:06:34
Post by: EnthusiastDude on Sat, 26 October 2019, 07:47:43
I think that the met. gray looks really different in each of the renders. Some show it more blue-ish and others more red-ish.
Post by: xondat on Mon, 28 October 2019, 13:51:08
https://noxary.co/products/noxary-xrf