Geekhack Handwriting Thread and Fountain Pen Thread

[Air tree]

After posting in the "What did you get in the mail today" thread, I'm feeling self-conscious about my handwriting now...Someone show me their terrible handwriting so I can feel better about my self... 

[demik]

Bro, you have the perfect pen to practice with. Try picking up some books on Amazon on writing and just practice practice practice.

[Air tree]

I'm curious, what do you use as your main pen, demik?

[genkidama]

I would say every handwiriting is beautiful on its own as it tells how you are or how you feel So don't worry about your handwriting style, mine is also not that good (at least I think so), but it is what it is. If you want to change, you just have to practice practice and get it into muscle memory (I think, isn't it?).
Is this TWSBI mini a piston-filler pen or does it use cartridges/aeromatic filler?


I would love to get some help for my pen. I recently bought a Kaweco Sport and used the cartridge that was enclosed in the package. Now it's empty and I got a new one, as I cannot buy the cartridges of Kaweco in a shop here (although I'm frm Germany) I searched for another and found that the Pelikan were pretty close compared to sizes. I've read that you can "just" change the cartridges and don't necessarily need to clean the pen because of the change. But somehow the ink flow is really slow and the longer I write the lesser ink comes out. If I let the pen lie still for a while the ink is much more present, but soon after I write it starts to get out lesser than before. Do I need to clean the pen or is it possible to put 1-2 drops of water onto the nib? The change with the cartridge is easy, I didn't really got something wrong I think (the cartridge plopped as a the signal the cartridge was opened up). I use my pen almost daily, but with this ink flow problem I haven't been using it that much as it gets too stressful for my hand to write (I'm left-handed, so the strain on my hand is high to begin with).

[Air tree]

I would say every handwiriting is beautiful on its own as it tells how you are or how you feel So don't worry about your handwriting style, mine is also not that good (at least I think so), but it is what it is. If you want to change, you just have to practice practice and get it into muscle memory (I think, isn't it?).
Is this TWSBI mini a piston-filler pen or does it use cartridges/aeromatic filler?


I would love to get some help for my pen. I recently bought a Kaweco Sport and used the cartridge that was enclosed in the package. Now it's empty and I got a new one, as I cannot buy the cartridges of Kaweco in a shop here (although I'm frm Germany) I searched for another and found that the Pelikan were pretty close compared to sizes. I've read that you can "just" change the cartridges and don't necessarily need to clean the pen because of the change. But somehow the ink flow is really slow and the longer I write the lesser ink comes out. If I let the pen lie still for a while the ink is much more present, but soon after I write it starts to get out lesser than before. Do I need to clean the pen or is it possible to put 1-2 drops of water onto the nib? The change with the cartridge is easy, I didn't really got something wrong I think (the cartridge plopped as a the signal the cartridge was opened up). I use my pen almost daily, but with this ink flow problem I haven't been using it that much as it gets too stressful for my hand to write (I'm left-handed, so the strain on my hand is high to begin with).

The Twsbi is a piston filler.


And try getting some warm/cold water and rinsing out the nib of the pen, I heard paper fibers can cause a build up in their. Or maybe ink.

[Larken]

I would say every handwiriting is beautiful on its own as it tells how you are or how you feel So don't worry about your handwriting style, mine is also not that good (at least I think so), but it is what it is. If you want to change, you just have to practice practice and get it into muscle memory (I think, isn't it?).
Is this TWSBI mini a piston-filler pen or does it use cartridges/aeromatic filler?


I would love to get some help for my pen. I recently bought a Kaweco Sport and used the cartridge that was enclosed in the package. Now it's empty and I got a new one, as I cannot buy the cartridges of Kaweco in a shop here (although I'm frm Germany) I searched for another and found that the Pelikan were pretty close compared to sizes. I've read that you can "just" change the cartridges and don't necessarily need to clean the pen because of the change. But somehow the ink flow is really slow and the longer I write the lesser ink comes out. If I let the pen lie still for a while the ink is much more present, but soon after I write it starts to get out lesser than before. Do I need to clean the pen or is it possible to put 1-2 drops of water onto the nib? The change with the cartridge is easy, I didn't really got something wrong I think (the cartridge plopped as a the signal the cartridge was opened up). I use my pen almost daily, but with this ink flow problem I haven't been using it that much as it gets too stressful for my hand to write (I'm left-handed, so the strain on my hand is high to begin with).

Clean the pen and flush the nib and feed out completely.

You usually don't have to clean the pen if you're using the same ink. But as every manufacturer's ink have different properties, mixing them can sometimes result in them chemically reacting in undesirable ways due to different pH values. I've no idea what Kaweco inks are like in relation to Pelikan inks, but I've accidentally mixed waterman and pelikan inks together once, and actually had some solid gunk forming in the resulting mixture. I didn't have the mixture in the pen, but if I did, it would probably have clogged up the feed pretty badly. It did leave some lasting stains in the vial I mixed them in, which was of course, discarded entirely.

Consider reusing empty cartridges? Get a bottle of ink you like, a broad needle syringe and refill away. Though, keep in mind that cartridges will start to crack and loosen at the mouth after a few cycles, and will have to be replaced.

Also, the pelikan inks (or at least the ones they sell in cartridges) tend to be a rather dry ink. Its not a bad ink for left-handers (I'm a southpaw too) due to how quickly they dry on the page, but I find most of their inks to fade out poorly to very washed out colors. Out of curiosity, do you have a smudging problem as you write?

[genkidama]

Thanks for the replies, I'll try to clean it up later today or tomorrow. Is it okay, if I clean it at night like 10pm and start using it the next day at 10am? I've read something like a 24hrs pause is needed to make the cleaning thourough. I'm not quite sure.
I'll start with the warm/cold water and if it doesn't help I'll clean it properly.

@Larken
Yeah I start smudging while I write, with the Kaweco cartridge it was all fine no smudging. As I tend to have a lil sweaty hands while writing long texts I need some drier ink. CPTBadAss recommended me the Pelikan Edelstein Ink, so I thought I can try one cartridge of some Pelikan ink as I couldn't find this specific family of Pelikan. Because I thought this should also be drier than other inks.
And it's just like you described, the colors seem really washed out after some writing until it's really difficult to write as it seems the ink doesn't want to come out and it's more washed out. Kind of a bummer, seems like tha Pelikan is too dry for the pen.

[Larken]

Thanks for the replies, I'll try to clean it up later today or tomorrow. Is it okay, if I clean it at night like 10pm and start using it the next day at 10am? I've read something like a 24hrs pause is needed to make the cleaning thourough. I'm not quite sure.

More than enough time. I regularly ink up pens less than 15 minutes after a thorough flush (and using a paper towel to absorb moisture from the nib and feed), but if you can spare the time for it to air out after flushing, it would be better. Not sure how you're going to flush the pen without a convertor though, unless you're using a bulb syringe or something.

Yeah I start smudging while I write, with the Kaweco cartridge it was all fine no smudging. As I tend to have a lil sweaty hands while writing long texts I need some drier ink. CPTBadAss recommended me the Pelikan Edelstein Ink, so I thought I can try one cartridge of some Pelikan ink as I couldn't find this specific family of Pelikan. Because I thought this should also be drier than other inks.
And it's just like you described, the colors seem really washed out after some writing until it's really difficult to write as it seems the ink doesn't want to come out and it's more washed out. Kind of a bummer, seems like tha Pelikan is too dry for the pen.

I haven't tried the Edelstein line, but I believe they're slight wetter than the Pelikan 4001 line, which is usually what's in the cartridges. But what you're describing doesn't seem like the fault of the ink itself; it may be that your feed may be slightly clogged; While the 4001 line does tend to get complaints of looking washed out after drying, it is a generally well behaved ink in most pens.

If you could provide a writing sample, it might clarify things.

 

[demik]

I'm curious, what do you use as your main pen, demik?

Right now? Plain ol' Pilot Dr. Grip.

[genkidama]

Thanks for the replies, I'll try to clean it up later today or tomorrow. Is it okay, if I clean it at night like 10pm and start using it the next day at 10am? I've read something like a 24hrs pause is needed to make the cleaning thourough. I'm not quite sure.

More than enough time. I regularly ink up pens less than 15 minutes after a thorough flush (and using a paper towel to absorb moisture from the nib and feed), but if you can spare the time for it to air out after flushing, it would be better. Not sure how you're going to flush the pen without a convertor though, unless you're using a bulb syringe or something.

Alright, I don't think I'll get to it right now, but I try tomorrow. That sounds very good to me, if it is alright to use it quicker rather than waiting for more then half a day.  I wanted to try to use a syringe for cleaning. If I don't find one I wanted to look at this site rickconner as it seems quite informative and have some alternatives to a syringe. I also read there it is possible just to drop some drops of water onto the nib and this could already do the trick. I'll see tomorrow.

Yeah I start smudging while I write, with the Kaweco cartridge it was all fine no smudging. As I tend to have a lil sweaty hands while writing long texts I need some drier ink. CPTBadAss recommended me the Pelikan Edelstein Ink, so I thought I can try one cartridge of some Pelikan ink as I couldn't find this specific family of Pelikan. Because I thought this should also be drier than other inks.
And it's just like you described, the colors seem really washed out after some writing until it's really difficult to write as it seems the ink doesn't want to come out and it's more washed out. Kind of a bummer, seems like tha Pelikan is too dry for the pen.

I haven't tried the Edelstein line, but I believe they're slight wetter than the Pelikan 4001 line, which is usually what's in the cartridges. But what you're describing doesn't seem like the fault of the ink itself; it may be that your feed may be slightly clogged; While the 4001 line does tend to get complaints of looking washed out after drying, it is a generally well behaved ink in most pens.

If you could provide a writing sample, it might clarify things.

I can do that tomorrow. I'll photocopy one of my lectures, there you'll see the difference. I'm glad that you said it, I am using the Pelikan 4001 line. I was just at my university and didn't have any catridge box with me.

[morpheus]

Just got a Metropolitan with Namiki Blue....it's about time to join this club.

[demik]

why won't twsbi release a white rosegold in 580

ah damn it just noticed even the mini is sold out

ITS SO PRETTY.

going to have to get a red 580, didn't even know they had different colors now.

[Air tree]

why won't twsbi release a white rosegold in 580

ah damn it just noticed even the mini is sold out

ITS SO PRETTY.

going to have to get a red 580, didn't even know they had different colors now.

Mmmm, white gold...

[demik]

now if it only it was 580 size but noooooo only black rose gold. damn you twsbi.

[Air tree]

now if it only it was 580 size but noooooo only black rose gold. damn you twsbi.

Do you write with a 580 posted or unposted? If posted, that's rather large. If not then it's about the same as the mini, is it not?

Or is it the just ink capacity?

[nubbinator]

why won't twsbi release a white rosegold in 580

ah damn it just noticed even the mini is sold out

ITS SO PRETTY.

going to have to get a red 580, didn't even know they had different colors now.

Mmmm, white gold...

Show Image

Damn, I need one of those.

[demik]

now if it only it was 580 size but noooooo only black rose gold. damn you twsbi.

Do you write with a 580 posted or unposted? If posted, that's rather large. If not then it's about the same as the mini, is it not?

Or is it the just ink capacity?

i haven't used a 580 yet, and honestly it has more to do with how it looks in my pen case. it's a stupid reason, i know, but i hate how it doesn't look the same size as the rest of my stuff lol.

why won't twsbi release a white rosegold in 580

ah damn it just noticed even the mini is sold out

ITS SO PRETTY.

going to have to get a red 580, didn't even know they had different colors now.

Mmmm, white gold...

Show Image

Damn, I need one of those.

right??

[rowdy]

There's a drop on Pilot Metropolitan pens: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/pilot-mr-fountain-pen?mode=guest_open

Are these good?  I ask because it is two for a really low price, compared to about 4 times the price for one of a different pen.

Also can you refill these from a bottle of ink, or do you need special cartridges?

[byker]

It is a decent price I think, depending on shipping to your area. For example that is $29 USD for me, but I could get 2 shipped via amazon prime for $34ish CAD and have them on Tuesday. I quite enjoy my metropolitan, although it is my only FP so I am a bit of a noob. You do not need special catridges, although you can use a catridge. I just have a bottle of purple ink to refill mine with.

[demik]

There's a drop on Pilot Metropolitan pens: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/pilot-mr-fountain-pen?mode=guest_open

Are these good?  I ask because it is two for a really low price, compared to about 4 times the price for one of a different pen.

Also can you refill these from a bottle of ink, or do you need special cartridges?

Both. You can do cartridge or get a converter.

[Larken]

very good pens for the money. the ones from massdrop should come with a squeeze convertor for filling from ink bottles.

[rowdy]

Both. You can do cartridge or get a converter.

very good pens for the money. the ones from massdrop should come with a squeeze convertor for filling from ink bottles.

I'm guessing that from MD you get the pen and a (second?) cartridge in that neato box.

Is the squeeze converter a separate purchase?

[byker]

It comes with the squeeze converter and one catridge if it is the same packaging as the amazon ones (which it looks like it is).

[Larken]

Mine came with the pen, a cartridge and the squeeze convertor in the box (also from MD). Personally not a big fan of the squeeze convertor, since you can't see how much ink there is left. Not a huge issue though; just carry around a second pen

There's the con-50 piston convertor (note a slightly smaller ink capacity for that) you can get from elsewhere (MD doesn't give an option for that unfortunately), which is also easier to clean if you tend to switch inks around often (squeeze convertors are difficult to clean completely in my experience; but not an issue if you intend to keep the same ink in it all the time).

[rowdy]

Thanks guys

I'd be unlikely to change the ink - probably sticking with black.

[demik]

But that's the beauty of fp. So many inks to choose from!

[Air tree]

Like a moron, I scratched up my cap to my mini, but thankfully Twsbi is awesome and they are going to have some spares in a few weeks I can get. 


<3 you twsbi.

[demik]

Twsbi ftw.

[genkidama]

So I finally came around and cleaned my pen with a syringe. It was easier than I thought and I let it dry over night. Writes like charm right now. So it definately was an ink issue. I just wrote half a site and the ink didn't look washed out after awhile.

Some wanted a pic of how it looked. Unfortunately the picture didn't capture the washed out ink, in the flesh (do you say it like that?) it looks much more washed out and harder to write. It should be a dark blue ish ink, but it looks more grey than dark blue.

I don't know why but the spoiler tags only work within a quote tag.

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Regarding the Pilot Metropolitan drop at Massdrop, I compared the nibs at gouletpens and the medium and fine nibs didn't differ much really. I compared it to a Kaweco Sport fine and the fine of a Pilot is much more thinner. I'm not sure anymore, but did someone of you made a pic about the Pilot Metropolitans nibs some time ago?
It's still correct to think that the Pilot with a fine nib wont really "scratch" the paper while writing? From the comparison I did at gouletpens it would be smart to get the medium nibs rather than the fine nibs. I'm not really convinced of that comparison, as the Kaweco Sport fine and medium nibs look very similar. And someone in the discussion from the drop mentioned that you could exchange nibs with the Pilot (only a few, like 4-5 nibs). Is this really true?
I wanted to jump onto that drop as I wanted to have a Pilot pen and get my girlfriend into fountain pens. She became interested seeing me writing with the Kaweco Sport :)

edit: I'm sorry I'm back in my what-if's-phase ^^ I'm a little excited and want to have everything thought through well. But I'm going to stick to fine nibs with the Pilots and finally have something to swap :)

[Larken]

looks pretty much like the pelikan black I know. not a huge fan of the faded grey once it dries.

as to your question about nib size, Japanese nibs are measured differently from Western nibs; typically they are finer.
eg.
Western EF = Jap F
Western F = Jap M

the line that a pen lays down is a function of nib size, wetness of ink, and paper quality. without keeping at least 2 of the variables constant, it is hard to make a fair comparison. Some of the goulet comparisons seemed off to me as well, but for the most part, it is a great resource for comparing nibs.

The pilot metro uses the same nib as a few other pilot pens which are rather affordable, and can be swapped out. Off the top of my head, for an even finer nib (0.2mm I believe), you'd need the pilot penmanship. There's a italic from the plumix and a few other options I can't recall. Not too bad if you like the metro's body and just want a nib change, but the costs do add up. If you're looking for a single daily basher it might be a better choice to shell out for something better.

As for smoothness, a Japanese F would still be very smooth, smoother if you do the paper bag trick. The nibs only start to get a little toothy as you go towards EF and UEF.

[genkidama]

It should have been a blue-black rather a black ink with grey color once it dries. I'm not a fan either. I'm more of a blue ink ish guy and I try to find some dark blue inks. Typically it's mostly the black-blue's that come close to my desired color, but I'm still trying to get to know ink colors For now the Kaweco Midnight Blue and Diamine Midnight/Majestic Blue is the color I really like (I only have the samples you can see at gouletpens).

This sounds good with the possibility to exchange the nibs. But if the F and M are smooth I guess I don't really need to swap into even finer nibs, only if something happened to the nib. I've read the Pilots Metropolitan give some kind of feedback while writing and that you can "polish" it off. Is it like grinding / sanding the nib to lessen the feedback?

Can someone comment on the converters for these? I have seen that some say it's not really tight in the pen and can produce some leakage while traveling. But with cartridges it seems more tight and less leakage problem.

I would want to still get the 2 Metropolitans in this drop as to give my girlfriend an entrance into fountain pens. Maybe later I'll try some of the nicer pens that may come via a drop as well

[CPTBadAss]

You can get some micromesh or fine sandpaper to tune the nib to your liking. I've never heard of it felt any feedback issues. Both con 20 (squeeze) and con 50 (twist) converters feel fine to me. Again, instead of obsessing over details, why not just go try one in person? I'm sure you could find a local pen store with the Metropolitan.

[genkidama]

Unfortunately I don't, I already looked everywhere and I couldn't find any Pilot pens in general or Metropolitan in particular. Most of the time I found Parker, Pelikan, Lamy but no asian manufacturers. And almost everybody but one didn't really knew Pilot pens. That's why I'm kind of focused on the details, as I cannot try them out and if I buy them and they don't fit my needs/wishes it's like throwing my money out of the windows. I'll buy them nonetheless, but I wanted to be sure as some of you had these Pilot pens and can elaborate on some things I wanted to check before buying.

[Binge]

Unfortunately I don't, I already looked everywhere and I couldn't find any Pilot pens in general or Metropolitan in particular. Most of the time I found Parker, Pelikan, Lamy but no asian manufacturers. And almost everybody but one didn't really knew Pilot pens. That's why I'm kind of focused on the details, as I cannot try them out and if I buy them and they don't fit my needs/wishes it's like throwing my money out of the windows. I'll buy them nonetheless, but I wanted to be sure as some of you had these Pilot pens and can elaborate on some things I wanted to check before buying.

I didn't try a pilot before I bought one :3  but I hate my wallet.  First pilot was a Falcon, and interestingly enough I had a love/hate relationship with it.

Pilots tend to have more slender lines as they are a japanese brand.

They are the LAMY of the east, but they have more variety.  Their nibs are consistently pleasant, and their soft mediums are akin to the 23k palladium nibs of the visconti variety.

[Binge]

[Tiramisuu]

Being left handed I usually just ignore this thread but I thought I  might ask if anyone has found a good way to make this work other than writing with the wrong hand.

[Skuloth]

Being left handed I usually just ignore this thread but I thought I  might ask if anyone has found a good way to make this work other than writing with the wrong hand.

Write from right to left?

[jdcarpe]

I only like dip pens. No way you guys can drag me into your elitist fountain pen wallethack. Plus I can write in blood without worrying about clogging.

I do need a good inkwell, however.

[CPTBadAss]

[Binge]

I only like dip pens. No way you guys can drag me into your elitist fountain pen wallethack. Plus I can write in blood without worrying about clogging.

I do need a good inkwell, however.

Modern inkwells are awesome.  I have one for sale if you're interested.  The novelty has sort of worn off and I have more than one >.< 

It's a Stipula Netto

[jdcarpe]

I only like dip pens. No way you guys can drag me into your elitist fountain pen wallethack. Plus I can write in blood without worrying about clogging.

I do need a good inkwell, however.

Modern inkwells are awesome.  I have one for sale if you're interested.  The novelty has sort of worn off and I have more than one >.< 

It's a Stipula Netto

That sounds really cool. Let me know what you want for it.

[Larken]

Being left handed I usually just ignore this thread but I thought I  might ask if anyone has found a good way to make this work other than writing with the wrong hand.

get a very fine pen with a dry feed and a well behaved ink (my favorite everyday pen is a Masuyama needlepoint from franklin-christoph; the feed from FC is key as the flow is a lot drier than if I paired the same nib with a twsbi feed).

That particular pen lays down a line that dries fast enough that I can write from left to right at normal speeds with minimal smudging, and I write with my hand from the side (meaning my hand pretty much touches the ink about 3-5 seconds later after the ink meets the page). I had grounded 1 pen and gotten one pen ground to lay out a similar line as the FC needlepoint/nib combination, but out of the three, the FC Masuyama ground needlepoint/feed is the only one that doesn't smudge for my usage.

Show Image

that's a beautiful pen. What's that ink you're using?

I didn't try a pilot before I bought one :3  but I hate my wallet.  First pilot was a Falcon, and interestingly enough I had a love/hate relationship with it.

Just curious, are you referring to the US Namiki Falcon, or one of the Custom Heritage Series with a FA (falcon nib)?

I've gotten one of the latter, and didn't really take to it until I got it ground down to a finer point.

I only like dip pens. No way you guys can drag me into your elitist fountain pen wallethack. Plus I can write in blood without worrying about clogging.

I'd like to get started with dip pens some time, but am rather lost whether it is concerned, other than wanting a titanium plated zebra G nib. The idea of nibs rusting turns me off quite a little, as I don't think I'll be using dip pens on a daily basis. Any opinions or recommendations? :)

[Binge]

Show Image

that's a beautiful pen. What's that ink you're using?

I didn't try a pilot before I bought one :3  but I hate my wallet.  First pilot was a Falcon, and interestingly enough I had a love/hate relationship with it.

Just curious, are you referring to the US Namiki Falcon, or one of the Custom Heritage Series with a FA (falcon nib)?

I've gotten one of the latter, and didn't really take to it until I got it ground down to a finer point.

1. Rohrer & Klingner - Alt-Goldgrün

2. It's the US Namiki Falcon.  I have not yet tried their "FA" nib.

[CPTBadAss]

Let's all get dip pens and learn copperplate together!

[FrostyToast]

Bleh. I lost my Pilot Elite. I am starting to have fountain pen withdrawal symptoms.
Great excuse to buy a new pen though.

[jdcarpe]

I'd like to get started with dip pens some time, but am rather lost whether it is concerned, other than wanting a titanium plated zebra G nib. The idea of nibs rusting turns me off quite a little, as I don't think I'll be using dip pens on a daily basis. Any opinions or recommendations?

I'm cheap. I use a Speedball Pen Holder (Size B), with either a Speedball Hunt Pen No. 512 or No. 513-EF nib. Cost me all of $6 at the hobby store.

[TheGreatAntlers]

Does anyone have a spare lamy 1.1 or 1.3 nib? I want an italics tip for my safari but not $15 bad

Also, what is the proper term for the 'caligaraphy' style tips

[nubbinator]

I think the most dangerous part of fountain pens to your wallet is the inks.  I have four Diamine inks I want to try, four De Attramentis, four Noodler's, a J. Herbin, a Monteverde, a Private Reserve, a Pelikan, and an Omas.  Fortunately Goulet Pens sells small samples of most of the colors, so once I have some free cash, I'll be able to try some of those.

[demik]

j. herbin inks SUCK.

[nubbinator]

It just looked so pretty.  Ok though.  The Diamine, Noodler's, and De Attramentis were the ones I really wanted to try the most.  Noodler's Bernanker Blue and Baystate Cape Cod Cranberry, De Atramentis Plum, and Diamine Oxblood, Red Dragon, and Marine all look like such cool colors.

Right now I just have Pelikan Violet (which does not like my Pilot Metro) and Namiki Blue.