Leeku MXalps 30XX PCB

[dorkvader]

I've been wanting a G80-3000 PCB with NKRO for a while. Since all the G80-3494's are so expensive and all the other G80-3*** have 2KRO I'd been interested in this. Sadly almost nobody has one because the GB was only done in Korea.

Fortunately it seems that we can just order more of them as long as we have a GB. I don't know what the MOQ is, but I bet it's "high enough to justify a run".

Normally I'd just throw a GB up on the page, but I'd like to sorta gauge interest in this, so we can have a guess as to the amount (and therefore the price).

Features:
NKRO
Backlighting
Choice of Cherry or ALPS switches (though why you'd want to put ALPS switches into a cherry housing is beyond me)
Programmability (note, I don't know how hard it is to program, only that Photekq said he didn't have trouble.
I *think* it supports PS/2 but don't know for sure. There's a good chance that it's PS/2 only. With a soarer's this is no problem either way.

Here is a PCB photo that Photekq took


If kits are desired, I can probably provide LED resistors and diodes and all that, but it's super easy (and cheap) to just buy your own.

[ApocalypseMaow]

I'm down to support this!

[joey]

Looks like a teensy style controller in the top right.. what actually is it using?

[Photekq]

Looks like a teensy style controller in the top right.. what actually is it using?

There's no breakout board or anything like a teensy. It uses an atmega32.

[exitfire401]

Depending on price, I'll probably be in for 1

[HoffmanMyster]

Would we have to solder and program the controller?  I can handle soldering a through-hole controller (as it appears to be), but I'm not sure about programming.  Photekq, can you expand on this process?

These will fit in G81-3000 cases, correct?  Now that I finally have an actual Cherry 3000 case, I'd definitely be interested in this, depending on cost.   

[Photekq]

All you need to solder is :

Switches
Diodes (you can do either throughhole in the switch or SMD on the PCB)
LEDs (optional)
Resistors for LEDs

DV, if you're going to be doing a GB for this, could you try and find out if it'd be possible to add ISO support? I want a NKRO ISO 3000 PCB pretty bad.

[HoffmanMyster]

All you need to solder is :

Switches
Diodes (you can do either throughhole in the switch or SMD on the PCB)
LEDs (optional)
Resistors for LEDs

DV, if you're going to be doing a GB for this, could you try and find out if it'd be possible to add ISO support? I want a NKRO ISO 3000 PCB pretty bad.

Great, thanks for the info.    Can you touch on programming a bit?

ISO support would be interesting to me as well.

[Karura]

Just wondering, how is this one different from the one in offered in the TX1800 GB?

[exitfire401]

Just wondering, how is this one different from the one in offered in the TX1800 GB?

This is a full size PCB

[SpAmRaY]

Just wondering, how is this one different from the one in offered in the TX1800 GB?

This is a full size PCB

He means this

2) PCB + Plate Combo
Leeku PCB + Plate = USD 70

•3000 layout also available for the same price

[exitfire401]

Just wondering, how is this one different from the one in offered in the TX1800 GB?

This is a full size PCB

He means this

quote author=kin25 link=topic=68443.msg1626086#msg1626086 date=1423071466]


2) PCB + Plate Combo
Leeku PCB + Plate = USD 70

•3000 layout also available for the same price

[/quote]

Well, the TX1800 buy was primarily for the 1800 layout. This is for the 3000 layout, so that was the other option available. I forgot Kin even offered them.

[nubbinator]

Yeah, I'd be in for an 1800 or two, but not a 3000.

[dorkvader]

All you need to solder is :

Switches
Diodes (you can do either throughhole in the switch or SMD on the PCB)
LEDs (optional)
Resistors for LEDs

DV, if you're going to be doing a GB for this, could you try and find out if it'd be possible to add ISO support? I want a NKRO ISO 3000 PCB pretty bad.

i will look into it. If not I would probably be able to mod one of the PCBs to support ISO for you.

edit: if someone wants to design a PCB that supports ISO I'd be glad to do a GB for it instead.

Just wondering, how is this one different from the one in offered in the TX1800 GB?

This is a full size PCB

He means this

2) PCB + Plate Combo
Leeku PCB + Plate = USD 70

�3000 layout also available for the same price

Hmm, if this PCB was already part of a Gb then there's no need for this here.

[sethk_]

I would still be interested!

[exitfire401]

All you need to solder is :

Switches
Diodes (you can do either throughhole in the switch or SMD on the PCB)
LEDs (optional)
Resistors for LEDs

DV, if you're going to be doing a GB for this, could you try and find out if it'd be possible to add ISO support? I want a NKRO ISO 3000 PCB pretty bad.

i will look into it. If not I would probably be able to mod one of the PCBs to support ISO for you.

edit: if someone wants to design a PCB that supports ISO I'd be glad to do a GB for it instead.

Just wondering, how is this one different from the one in offered in the TX1800 GB?

This is a full size PCB

He means this

2) PCB + Plate Combo
Leeku PCB + Plate = USD 70

�3000 layout also available for the same price

Hmm, if this PCB was already part of a Gb then there's no need for this here.

I wouldn't really say it was part of a gb. It was more of a side item and afaik, only a couple of people grabbed them.

[jonathanyu]

All you need to solder is :

Switches
Diodes (you can do either throughhole in the switch or SMD on the PCB)
LEDs (optional)
Resistors for LEDs

DV, if you're going to be doing a GB for this, could you try and find out if it'd be possible to add ISO support? I want a NKRO ISO 3000 PCB pretty bad.

i will look into it. If not I would probably be able to mod one of the PCBs to support ISO for you.

edit: if someone wants to design a PCB that supports ISO I'd be glad to do a GB for it instead.

Just wondering, how is this one different from the one in offered in the TX1800 GB?

This is a full size PCB

He means this

2) PCB + Plate Combo
Leeku PCB + Plate = USD 70

�3000 layout also available for the same price

Hmm, if this PCB was already part of a Gb then there's no need for this here.

  i forgot to order one...

[dorkvader]

I'll keep this topic around just in case, but there are some extras are still available

There are extra 3000 pcbs and plates.

[IvanIvanovich]

If we could get the SMD diodes and resistors done pick and place so it comes ready to go I would be down. Otherwise... forget it. I had TONS of trouble trying to do the leeku 1800 I had and no interest in a repeat of that fiasco.
Also, I don't want to be forced to buy a plate I wouldn't ever use either. It's just wasting money.

[dorkvader]

If we could get the SMD diodes and resistors done pick and place so it comes ready to go I would be down. Otherwise... forget it. I had TONS of trouble trying to do the leeku 1800 I had and no interest in a repeat of that fiasco.
Also, I don't want to be forced to buy a plate I wouldn't ever use either. It's just wasting money.

diodes make sense because they are all the same. Resistors... maybe. Since there is a huge difference is Vf across different LED colours, you have two options: Guess high and have all LEDs work (and blue/white are a little dim) or guess low and keep from overcurrent on the red/orange LEDs by PWM controlling the LED matrix.

Now if we get PCBs from Leeku this is likely not possible. If we make our own pcb... the sky's the limit. P&P, ISO, NKRO, backlighting, etc. are all possible.

Honestly I'm in favor of making our own, but I really don't have the PCB-design skill (yet) to wing this. So if you can hook me up with a PCB designer, I can throw the gerber at various shops and see what their prices are for P&P. We'll also either to use a teensy or get someone to program the raw chips with bootloaders (and firmware, why not?).

Unfortunately for this many keys, we'll either need a teensy++2.0 (which isn't compatible with all the firmwares) or an atmega 32u4 (which works with just about everything) and some shift registers or whatever.

I never got why people got only some things P&P but didn't bother to get the diodes done. I realize that diodes, LEDs or jumpers should always be installed in a PCB-mount KB (to stabilize the switch) but including solder holes for jumpers and normal LED holes should pacify everyone. B'sides there are lots of KBs that people use PCB mount without them (eg poker X) and it's fine. Anyway throwing diodes in there isn't going to hurt anything. Installing your own diodes won't do anything different (afaik) and jumpering them will have the same effect. If a "good answer" to the LED resistor problem (I like the "guess high" version) is made, then there's no reason to leave SMD resistors out either.

Actually, the more I think of this, the more I want to make is a little "less custom" and "more manageable". True custom people can desolder the stuff there and make it how they want, and everyone else (which is at least 90% I think) will be just fine with the acceptable defaults.

I had TONS of trouble trying to do the leeku 1800 I had and no interest in a repeat of that fiasco.

Do you have experience doing SMD work on other KBS like the ergodox or a GON, or is the Leeku 1800 particularly difficult?

Also, I don't want to be forced to buy a plate I wouldn't ever use either. It's just wasting money.

This will not be a problem, though prices on plates might be a little higher.

Oh if there are plates they will be stainless steel unless there is significant outcry. Aluminium plates are worthless IMO.

[sethk_]

More

If we could get the SMD diodes and resistors done pick and place so it comes ready to go I would be down. Otherwise... forget it. I had TONS of trouble trying to do the leeku 1800 I had and no interest in a repeat of that fiasco.
Also, I don't want to be forced to buy a plate I wouldn't ever use either. It's just wasting money.

diodes make sense because they are all the same. Resistors... maybe. Since there is a huge difference is Vf across different LED colours, you have two options: Guess high and have all LEDs work (and blue/white are a little dim) or guess low and keep from overcurrent on the red/orange LEDs by PWM controlling the LED matrix.

Now if we get PCBs from Leeku this is likely not possible. If we make our own pcb... the sky's the limit. P&P, ISO, NKRO, backlighting, etc. are all possible.

Honestly I'm in favor of making our own, but I really don't have the PCB-design skill (yet) to wing this. So if you can hook me up with a PCB designer, I can throw the gerber at various shops and see what their prices are for P&P. We'll also either to use a teensy or get someone to program the raw chips with bootloaders (and firmware, why not?).

Unfortunately for this many keys, we'll either need a teensy++2.0 (which isn't compatible with all the firmwares) or an atmega 32u4 (which works with just about everything) and some shift registers or whatever.

I never got why people got only some things P&P but didn't bother to get the diodes done. I realize that diodes, LEDs or jumpers should always be installed in a PCB-mount KB (to stabilize the switch) but including solder holes for jumpers and normal LED holes should pacify everyone. B'sides there are lots of KBs that people use PCB mount without them (eg poker X) and it's fine. Anyway throwing diodes in there isn't going to hurt anything. Installing your own diodes won't do anything different (afaik) and jumpering them will have the same effect. If a "good answer" to the LED resistor problem (I like the "guess high" version) is made, then there's no reason to leave SMD resistors out either.

Actually, the more I think of this, the more I want to make is a little "less custom" and "more manageable". True custom people can desolder the stuff there and make it how they want, and everyone else (which is at least 90% I think) will be just fine with the acceptable defaults.

I had TONS of trouble trying to do the leeku 1800 I had and no interest in a repeat of that fiasco.

Do you have experience doing SMD work on other KBS like the ergodox or a GON, or is the Leeku 1800 particularly difficult?

Also, I don't want to be forced to buy a plate I wouldn't ever use either. It's just wasting money.

This will not be a problem, though prices on plates might be a little higher.

Oh if there are plates they will be stainless steel unless there is significant outcry. Aluminium plates are worthless IMO.
[\more]

I would rather have high resistance where blue and white are somewhat dim if we can get them soldered in. As far as PCB designers AND plate designers, I know MonsterMask, the man who runs winkeyless might be willing to help. Although, I would prefer if it is custom, it would fit in cherry cases like the Leeku PCB and Plate does.

[dorkvader]

I would rather have high resistance where blue and white are somewhat dim if we can get them soldered in. As far as PCB designers AND plate designers, I know MonsterMask, the man who runs winkeyless might be willing to help. Although, I would prefer if it is custom, it would fit in cherry cases like the Leeku PCB and Plate does.

OK Good to hear.

Actually if winkeyless.kr were on it, it would be relatively easy for them to add G80-3000 support. They just need to add a little space to the PCB (between the function row and the rest) and then make sure the case mounting holes are there. The only other change would be to remove the upper right 4 switch locations and put lock LEDs there.

I also think the "guess high" resistance is correct, because of the way LEDs work, the blue/white ones are brighter anyway. In practise all the colours are about the same. The fact that the eye brightness curve is a logarithm helps as well.

Fitting cherry cases is the crucial part I think. People can get a G81-3***-H** and just add PCB and switches (case and keycaps are there). People can use a donor G80-3*** and get programmability NKRO and backlighting out of their donor KB. You'd be able to add a lot of value that way while still saving most of the parts.

[Hak Foo]

I think part of the appeal is to be able to convert a G80 into a plate-mount board.  Some of the G80s I've used, especially the 8200s, really don't feel stiff and solid.

[pasph]

Interested if there's also ISO support

[IvanIvanovich]

Sure it is choice if you want to use plate... but one of the issues with stock G80 at least with production from the last 10 year or so is the PCB are thin and flimsy. When I compared to the leeku 1800 PCB it was thicker and definitely more rigid so it feel much more solid even without a plate.
If winkeyless can adapt existing design that would be good. While they are much less common there are some models based on 1000/3000 that do have the additional 4 key above the numpad



So technically it wouldn't hurt to leave that support there on pcb either on the off chance. Adding ISO, and maybe even JIS (or just use small spacebar to add dedicated Fn key) support would be cool if it's not much trouble.
I agree, with the resistor just make it default higher and blue etc. can just not be eye blinding... or if people want eye blinding they can just get higher mcd value. Having it all done would be much better as I don't have proper SMD kit and having to locate and pay someone to do it is just unnecessary additional hassle if we can have everything done pick and place so it's ready to go out the box.

[quochung1989]

Interested this.
Confirm leeku is thinner than cherry. So It is easy to curve.

[wlhlm]

Interested.

Are the G8*-1000 and G8*-3000 cases compatible as well?

[quochung1989]

Interested.

Are the G8*-1000 and G8*-3000 cases compatible as well?

I'm sure with 3000 but 1000 is maybe.

[IvanIvanovich]

It's meant to be used with 3000 case, but some 1000 case would work too. It really depend on which revision as case internals are different. Some earlier one may require some modding, and maybe it won't go together very good anymore with PCB 'floating' inside the case. Later ones would be best as they had put 3000 PCB inside them anyway, you can tell by the FCC ID on the sticker, it say 3000 instead.

[wlhlm]

It's meant to be used with 3000 case, but some 1000 case would work too. It really depend on which revision as case internals are different. Some earlier one may require some modding, and maybe it won't go together very good anymore with PCB 'floating' inside the case. Later ones would be best as they had put 3000 PCB inside them anyway, you can tell by the FCC ID on the sticker, it say 3000 instead.

Thank you very much for the info Ivan!

[wlhlm]

So, what's the thing with this? It looks like at least some interest is there. Would be nice to see which MOQ we have to reach.

I really want to build a modern G80-3000. I have everything except for the PCB.

[madhias]

Would be interested in at least two PCBs!

[wlhlm]

Sure it is choice if you want to use plate... but one of the issues with stock G80 at least with production from the last 10 year or so is the PCB are thin and flimsy. When I compared to the leeku 1800 PCB it was thicker and definitely more rigid so it feel much more solid even without a plate.

Confirm leeku is thinner than cherry. So It is easy to curve.

What is correct here?

[hwood34]

I'm assuming this isn't really a thing anymore? I'm sure we could get enough orders to do a GB, I'd certainly be interested in one

[wlhlm]

I'm assuming this isn't really a thing anymore? I'm sure we could get enough orders to do a GB, I'd certainly be interested in one

Yes, please make it happen

[sethk_]

When I get back from vacation I can try and arrange something, I don't have a very busy summer so I would be more than happy to help

[punkpc]

I would be interested in this group buy a well.

[quochung1989]

If this happen, we should extend both 1800 layout?

[sethk_]

If this happen, we should extend both 1800 layout?

I agree, that way it would be an easy source to obtain both 3000 and 1800

[radio_killah]

I know leeku personally and have talked to him about selling his pcbs direct. If there is enough interest I am willing to coordinate with him about getting a buy together.

[quochung1989]

I know leeku personally and have talked to him about selling his pcbs direct. If there is enough interest I am willing to coordinate with him about getting a buy together.

Sound great. Count me in 

[Spopepro]

I know leeku personally and have talked to him about selling his pcbs direct. If there is enough interest I am willing to coordinate with him about getting a buy together.

This would be very cool.  I'd want one, and could help with repackaging and sending if they are coming your direction from KR (I live in SF).

[jackiecanev2]

I'd be in for one.

[korrelate]

If it has alps and MX compatibility then I'd be in for two. Otherwise just one.


Cheers,

K

[quochung1989]

If it has alps and MX compatibility then I'd be in for two. Otherwise just one.


Cheers,

K

Sure. Leeku rev 1.4 supported both.

[sethk_]

My store is getting some in stock. They are the L3 version, so they don't have ALPs support. I bought 10 of 3k, but if there are more than 10 ordered, I can just order some more. My store: http://www.kbdhub.com