Author Topic: The Switch 180 Custom Keyboard (Read 45561 times)

kiwi99 · « **on:** Tue, 14 March 2017, 17:11:49 »

The Switch 180

The Switch/Swiwi 180 keyboard is a 65% layout with dedicated arrow keys and a separated function cluster. The design is inspired by the larger 1800 layout. Too many 65% layouts are just a regular rectangle so I am hoping this is a step away from that for once.

In the beginning I don't plan on having many features on the board, since its designed mainly for a very small group of people interested in it. It will be fairly minimal; no per-switch leds, no RGB, no crazy layout support. What it will have is:

TMK/QMK Support
(Hopefully) Indicator LEDS
Custom PCB with cool silkscreening

So, here is the layout:

The design started as almost a 40% with stuff tagged onto it but for the sake of keycap support and usability it was enlarged.

I have started designing a pcb, you can see some screenshots from KiCAD

First Revision PCB "render"

Spaghetti Routing.. I tried to do this at 3AM and wasn't fully using my brain.

Second Iteration, a bit better but after a bit of brainstorming and rearranging the pinout I got it to a better place.

Much better routing and some design errors fixed after consulting some very helpful people

It was only after I finished all my work on it that I realized I had used an outdated KLE for reference of one of the smaller iterations.

But whatever it was good practice and now I have been redoing most of the design, and done it quite a bit faster and more well though out. the next stage of my design is to figure out how I should do the indicator leds. I also plan on changing the footprints for the switches because I have been

Thats all for now..

Would love to hear feedback and suggestions, tell me if this is something you'd use or find interesting.. or tell me why this is the stupidest thing you have ever seen!

UPDATE LOG
03/04/2017- PCB ORDERED
18/04/2017- PCB Received
20/04/2017 - Components Received

CURRENT STATE

: This round of PCB's is messed up either in design or in manufacturing. I've tried soldering one together and sent one away to someone whose soldering I trust more than my own since it was basically my first time doing SMD; The plan is to use the components and design a small PCB (numpad/macropad) and use the remaining components them to recoup a few of the costs before I do a fixed batch of PCBs.

-Kiwi

2018 - Switch 180 v0.2 (the first one was v0.5 but wew lad I didn't know how far off I was from finished)

NOT LATEST UPDATE

SWITCH 180 COMIN 2027 BAYBEE!!

nathanrosspowell · « **Reply #1 on:** Tue, 14 March 2017, 17:30:41 »

That's a big spacebar for such a little guy...

kinglukas38 · « **Reply #2 on:** Tue, 14 March 2017, 17:44:48 »

Joey Quinn · « **Reply #3 on:** Tue, 14 March 2017, 18:06:44 »

Really like the design but I think it could use a split space option.

kiwi99 · « **Reply #4 on:** Tue, 14 March 2017, 18:56:49 »

Quote from: Joey Quinn on Tue, 14 March 2017, 18:06:44

Really like the design but I think it could use a split space option.

I know if I ever produce these for the public I will definitely add more layout support and features. Right now my biggest focus is to get something fully functional before I muddle around with other stuff.

Quote from: nathanrosspowell on Tue, 14 March 2017, 17:30:41

That's a big spacebar for such a little guy...
Show Image

nathan, 7u is weak.. 10u support will definitely be added :cool:

kinglukas38 · « **Reply #5 on:** Tue, 14 March 2017, 19:10:48 »

what about modern 1800?

kiwi99 · « **Reply #6 on:** Tue, 14 March 2017, 19:17:23 »

Quote from: kinglukas38 on Tue, 14 March 2017, 19:10:48

what about modern 1800?

been thinking about it, very popular layout so might be included.. but I think to switch it up, I'd do all 1u bottom row keys, including the spacebar then also add ortholinear support and then a homerow spacebar as well.

what do you think?

kinglukas38 · « **Reply #7 on:** Tue, 14 March 2017, 19:23:15 »

Quote from: kiwi99 on Tue, 14 March 2017, 19:17:23

Quote from: kinglukas38 on Tue, 14 March 2017, 19:10:48
what about modern 1800?

been thinking about it, very popular layout so might be included.. but I think to switch it up, I'd do all 1u bottom row keys, including the spacebar then also add ortholinear support and then a homerow spacebar as well.
Show Image

what do you think?

would suit my need perfectly :-*

switchnollie · « **Reply #8 on:** Tue, 14 March 2017, 21:18:07 »

Great stuff kiwi88

clappingcactus · « **Reply #9 on:** Wed, 15 March 2017, 01:43:58 »

Quote from: kiwi99 on Tue, 14 March 2017, 19:17:23

Quote from: kinglukas38 on Tue, 14 March 2017, 19:10:48
what about modern 1800?

been thinking about it, very popular layout so might be included.. but I think to switch it up, I'd do all 1u bottom row keys, including the spacebar then also add ortholinear support and then a homerow spacebar as well.
Show Image

what do you think?

I like this layout the most because it forces you to use the home-row the most.

nathanrosspowell · « **Reply #10 on:** Wed, 15 March 2017, 09:27:43 »

Quote from: kinglukas38 on Tue, 14 March 2017, 19:23:15

Quote from: kiwi99 on Tue, 14 March 2017, 19:17:23
Quote from: kinglukas38 on Tue, 14 March 2017, 19:10:48
what about modern 1800?

been thinking about it, very popular layout so might be included.. but I think to switch it up, I'd do all 1u bottom row keys, including the spacebar then also add ortholinear support and then a homerow spacebar as well.
Show Image

what do you think?
would suit my need perfectly :-*

Fantastic! Just proves what us purists already know, that the home row needs bars not scoops :thumb:

KINGPIN · « **Reply #11 on:** Wed, 15 March 2017, 09:52:55 »

I like this! even better than my approach!

kmba · « **Reply #12 on:** Wed, 15 March 2017, 11:31:11 »

I love this. Split space is key though.

kiwi99 · « **Reply #13 on:** Wed, 15 March 2017, 12:03:50 »

Quote from: tameone on Wed, 15 March 2017, 11:31:11

I love this. Split space is key though.

Split space is 3 keys though

Noted, I realize I probably could easily fit it in I think.

cicada · « **Reply #14 on:** Wed, 15 March 2017, 12:59:58 »

Very neat idea kiwi. I've always liked the 1800 look but been holding on all the boards because I wanted some thing smol, so this might be perfect. Keep up the good work

Maybe add a HHKB-style bottom row like the Duck Black Bird?

kiwi99 · « **Reply #15 on:** Wed, 15 March 2017, 13:08:33 »

Quote from: iamacicada on Wed, 15 March 2017, 12:59:58

Very neat idea kiwi. I've always liked the 1800 look but been holding on all the boards because I wanted some thing smol, so this might be perfect. Keep up the good work

Maybe add a HHKB-style bottom row like the Duck Black Bird?

seems the general consensus is more bottom row support so this weekend I'll look into the best way to implement multiple bottom row support.
very much possible to add a bottom row that supports hhkb style, just might not be 6u (not sure what the blackbird has). I'll try to find something that doesn't look odd.

Joey Quinn · « **Reply #16 on:** Thu, 16 March 2017, 00:21:54 »

Quote from: kiwi99 on Wed, 15 March 2017, 13:08:33

Quote from: iamacicada on Wed, 15 March 2017, 12:59:58
Very neat idea kiwi. I've always liked the 1800 look but been holding on all the boards because I wanted some thing smol, so this might be perfect. Keep up the good work

Maybe add a HHKB-style bottom row like the Duck Black Bird?
seems the general consensus is more bottom row support so this weekend I'll look into the best way to implement multiple bottom row support.
very much possible to add a bottom row that supports hhkb style, just might not be 6u (not sure what the blackbird has). I'll try to find something that doesn't look odd.

With where you moved the controller to adding more bottom row support should be pretty easy, the only problem you could possibly run in to is some layouts not working with alps. If you have any issues figuring out switch spacing on the bottom row or making the layouts work with both MX and Alps I'd be happy to help.

kiwi99 · « **Reply #17 on:** Fri, 17 March 2017, 12:51:10 »

Quote from: Joey Quinn on Thu, 16 March 2017, 00:21:54

Quote from: kiwi99 on Wed, 15 March 2017, 13:08:33
Quote from: iamacicada on Wed, 15 March 2017, 12:59:58
Very neat idea kiwi. I've always liked the 1800 look but been holding on all the boards because I wanted some thing smol, so this might be perfect. Keep up the good work

Maybe add a HHKB-style bottom row like the Duck Black Bird?
seems the general consensus is more bottom row support so this weekend I'll look into the best way to implement multiple bottom row support.
very much possible to add a bottom row that supports hhkb style, just might not be 6u (not sure what the blackbird has). I'll try to find something that doesn't look odd.

With where you moved the controller to adding more bottom row support should be pretty easy, the only problem you could possibly run in to is some layouts not working with alps. If you have any issues figuring out switch spacing on the bottom row or making the layouts work with both MX and Alps I'd be happy to help.

Thanks for the support Joey, As for alps support I am still unsure if I should really keep it since lightcycle (if it hits MOQ) is one of the only sets that would work on the board. Only a few vintage sets have short R-shifts anyways so not sure if it is really worth it .

That being said I wanted to ask people what they thought of these split spacebar options:

ideally I would like to just have one opinion for cleanliness

edit: Also switches are in the proper layout now, and spaced out properly so thats good.

(I know some things aren't connected yet)

few things I am looking into

- circuitry for the indicator LEDs
- Look if I can add a breakout like the GH60 so that if people wanted they could use one of those WS2812 RGB led strips if they so desired.

nathanrosspowell · « **Reply #18 on:** Fri, 17 March 2017, 14:10:10 »

Quote from: kiwi99 on Fri, 17 March 2017, 12:51:10

Thanks for the support Joey, As for alps support I am still unsure if I should really keep it since lightcycle (if it hits MOQ) is one of the only sets that would work on the board. Only a few vintage sets have short R-shifts anyways so not sure if it is really worth it .

That being said I wanted to ask people what they thought of these split spacebar options:

Show Image

ideally I would like to just have one opinion for cleanliness

edit: Also switches are in the proper layout now, and spaced out properly so thats good.
Show Image

(I know some things aren't connected yet)
few things I am looking into

- circuitry for the indicator LEDs
- Look if I can add a breakout like the GH60 so that if people wanted they could use one of those WS2812 RGB led strips if they so desired.

Alpine Winter would fit the PCB as well FYI.

Being a 'right thumber' my personal favourite split space setup is 2.25u - 1.25u - 2.75u. Extra spacebars not really an issue for me as I have a bunch of GMK mods + extras. The bottom example comes close enough though

kiwi99 · « **Reply #19 on:** Fri, 17 March 2017, 16:01:56 »

Quote from: nathanrosspowell on Fri, 17 March 2017, 14:10:10

Quote from: kiwi99 on Fri, 17 March 2017, 12:51:10
Thanks for the support Joey, As for alps support I am still unsure if I should really keep it since lightcycle (if it hits MOQ) is one of the only sets that would work on the board. Only a few vintage sets have short R-shifts anyways so not sure if it is really worth it .

That being said I wanted to ask people what they thought of these split spacebar options:

Show Image

ideally I would like to just have one opinion for cleanliness

edit: Also switches are in the proper layout now, and spaced out properly so thats good.
Show Image

(I know some things aren't connected yet)
few things I am looking into

- circuitry for the indicator LEDs
- Look if I can add a breakout like the GH60 so that if people wanted they could use one of those WS2812 RGB led strips if they so desired.

Alpine Winter would fit the PCB as well FYI.

Being a 'right thumber' my personal favourite split space setup is 2.25u - 1.25u - 2.75u. Extra spacebars not really an issue for me as I have a bunch of GMK mods + extras. The bottom example comes close enough though

Alpine winter would you're right, you would need some extra blanks or something for the right nav cluster part of the board I guess though.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

nathanrosspowell · « **Reply #20 on:** Fri, 17 March 2017, 16:03:43 »

Quote from: kiwi99 on Fri, 17 March 2017, 16:01:56

Quote from: nathanrosspowell on Fri, 17 March 2017, 14:10:10
Quote from: kiwi99 on Fri, 17 March 2017, 12:51:10
Thanks for the support Joey, As for alps support I am still unsure if I should really keep it since lightcycle (if it hits MOQ) is one of the only sets that would work on the board. Only a few vintage sets have short R-shifts anyways so not sure if it is really worth it .

That being said I wanted to ask people what they thought of these split spacebar options:

Show Image

ideally I would like to just have one opinion for cleanliness

edit: Also switches are in the proper layout now, and spaced out properly so thats good.
Show Image

(I know some things aren't connected yet)
few things I am looking into

- circuitry for the indicator LEDs
- Look if I can add a breakout like the GH60 so that if people wanted they could use one of those WS2812 RGB led strips if they so desired.

Alpine Winter would fit the PCB as well FYI.

Being a 'right thumber' my personal favourite split space setup is 2.25u - 1.25u - 2.75u. Extra spacebars not really an issue for me as I have a bunch of GMK mods + extras. The bottom example comes close enough though
Alpine winter would you're right, you would need some extra blanks or something for the right nav cluster part of the board I guess though.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Blanks where in the GB extras, I have some

bmmcwhirt · « **Reply #21 on:** Sat, 18 March 2017, 13:57:44 »

I am curious how long it took you to get proficient with KiCAD. I've always used Eagle in the pas as I've done small projects, but when I decided to try my had at a keyboard I learned you cant buy Eagle any more you have to pay for a monthly subscription and the new license is just atrocious. So I downloaded KiCAD and have been playing with it. I've never been good at trace routing so I've always used Eagle's auto-route to get a starting point and then moved things around from there. Wit KiCAD you don't have that because of a legal issue and I've never been able to get FreeRoute to work on my Mac.

kiwi99 · « **Reply #22 on:** Sat, 18 March 2017, 14:00:01 »

Quote from: bmmcwhirt on Sat, 18 March 2017, 13:57:44

I am curious how long it took you to get proficient with KiCAD. I've always used Eagle in the pas as I've done small projects, but when I decided to try my had at a keyboard I learned you cant buy Eagle any more you have to pay for a monthly subscription and the new license is just atrocious. So I downloaded KiCAD and have been playing with it. I've never been good at trace routing so I've always used Eagle's auto-route to get a starting point and then moved things around from there. Wit KiCAD you don't have that because of a legal issue and I've never been able to get FreeRoute to work on my Mac.

I got from knowing nothing at all to where I am now in about 2-3 weeks of reading guides and the resources found in the living pcb thread

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

27.9.2016 · « **Reply #23 on:** Thu, 23 March 2017, 16:51:19 »

Nice work man

Is this Altium what you use for pcb designer?

kiwi99 · « **Reply #24 on:** Thu, 23 March 2017, 23:47:19 »

Quote from: 27.9.2016 on Thu, 23 March 2017, 16:51:19

Nice work man

Is this Altium what you use for pcb designer?

Using KiCAD!

kiwi99 · « **Reply #25 on:** Thu, 23 March 2017, 23:54:06 »

Alright, finished the PCB almost..

Split spacebar support added

Changed the pcb pads to ones that are better for soldering.

just have to flip the space bar stabilizer and connect the last remaining pads.

two things I want to do still are:

1. possibly break out some of the remaining controller pins so that people could use them for something like an LED strip, w/e

2. indicator LED's

but I don't know how to do the indicator circuit so I will look around to see if there is something I can reference later.

I have a plate file and pcb model in solidworks for the case design which is the next step. I think I might do an acrylic sandwich style case that I can machine easily for the proto, but also design something cooler for if people are ever interested in something more quality.

kinglukas38 · « **Reply #26 on:** Fri, 24 March 2017, 00:02:33 »

oooo looking good kiwi, anything on the alps front?

kiwi99 · « **Reply #27 on:** Fri, 24 March 2017, 00:05:59 »

Alps support is there in the pcb front, I will need to do some more research into making sure the case works out well (mainly for stabilizers)

bmmcwhirt · « **Reply #28 on:** Fri, 24 March 2017, 10:38:39 »

Which microcontroller are you planing to use? Maybe you said and I missed it but I skimmed back over and didn't see mention of it.

I'm looking at doing something similar but 84key. If you didn't see my concept art render in another thread here is the latest.

I'm going to change out the 10 LED layer indicators for a 8x8 SPI module (https://www.adafruit.com/products/959).

Also I was thinking of having it be a USB-C connector with internal hub as I describe in this thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=88369.0

Just thought I would share my thoughts in case you derive some inspiration from it. I'm pretty interested in seeing how this comes along. I love building keyboards but I don't have anyone to buy them off me when I'm done and I don't need a dozen or more just laying around. That said I've been considering a 60/65 to see what I think as right now I have 2 TKL and one Full sized Razer Blackwidow (with cherry before they made their own switches).

kiwi99 · « **Reply #29 on:** Fri, 24 March 2017, 10:46:17 »

Quote from: bmmcwhirt on Fri, 24 March 2017, 10:38:39

Which microcontroller are you planing to use? Maybe you said and I missed it but I skimmed back over and didn't see mention of it.

I'm looking at doing something similar but 84key. If you didn't see my concept art render in another thread here is the latest.

Show Image

I'm going to change out the 10 LED layer indicators for a 8x8 SPI module (https://www.adafruit.com/products/959).

Also I was thinking of having it be a USB-C connector with internal hub as I describe in this thread: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=88369.0

Just thought I would share my thoughts in case you derive some inspiration from it. I'm pretty interested in seeing how this comes along. I love building keyboards but I don't have anyone to buy them off me when I'm done and I don't need a dozen or more just laying around. That said I've been considering a 60/65 to see what I think as right now I have 2 TKL and one Full sized Razer Blackwidow (with cherry before they made their own switches).

Cool Render, that is an interesting layout and the idea of having a LED matrix is pretty interesting.

I've been using the atmega 32u4 for my board as its commonly used for custom boards and there is lots of documentation and resources for it.

bmmcwhirt · « **Reply #30 on:** Fri, 24 March 2017, 12:48:25 »

Yea the ATMega32 work nice. I think the Pegasus Hoof has a 32u2 in it. I've not put QMK on there yet just EasyAVR as it was quick and easy. I forget which chip is in the ps2AVRGB I have, it's an Atmel of some sort but I forget which one. I like the keyboard better than my Filco but I hate the layout editor when compared to EasyAVR. I don't know if EasyAVR works on the ps2AVRGB boards or not, I should look into it.

Joey Quinn · « **Reply #31 on:** Fri, 24 March 2017, 14:25:14 »

Atmega32u4s are great, they're easy to program and pretty hard to kill. While testing my MA42 one of the capacitors was a dud that caused a short to pass way too much current through a few pins but the controller held up without any damage.

kmba · « **Reply #32 on:** Fri, 24 March 2017, 22:11:07 »

32u4 is a good choice.. no complaints here. And I think this layout is original and special enough to warrant the effort and end cost for a milled two piece case in the event of an actual group buy.. even a basic one like that from say an rs78.

ineph · « **Reply #33 on:** Sat, 25 March 2017, 17:16:04 »

I really like this layout since is smal like 60% and have the functionality of dedicated arrow keys

Want to see with split spacebar and LED matrix!

kiwi99 · « **Reply #34 on:** Tue, 28 March 2017, 17:36:09 »

PCB Functionally is finished, I just need to add cool silkscreening now

kiwi99 · « **Reply #35 on:** Tue, 28 March 2017, 22:03:50 »

nickheller · « **Reply #36 on:** Tue, 28 March 2017, 22:10:15 »

very najs

kinglukas38 · « **Reply #37 on:** Tue, 28 March 2017, 22:33:07 »

I like the progression

SJHL · « **Reply #38 on:** Tue, 28 March 2017, 22:56:17 »

I just want it to build it and then display it.

What I'm trying to say is... I like it!

audax989 · « **Reply #39 on:** Wed, 29 March 2017, 00:14:13 »

I will buy this for that doge silkscreen alone.

:dogethink: good stuff kiwi

Pwner · « **Reply #40 on:** Wed, 29 March 2017, 03:35:40 »

Quote from: kiwi99 on Tue, 28 March 2017, 22:03:50

Show Image

Are you planning on doing a GB or just a small run? Either way, I'd like to buy one whenever possible!

:thumb: :thumb:

ineph · « **Reply #41 on:** Wed, 29 March 2017, 06:57:56 »

Quote from: kiwi99 on Tue, 28 March 2017, 22:03:50

Show Image

I love PCB with drawings

dantan · « **Reply #42 on:** Wed, 29 March 2017, 07:59:01 »

just curious but I didn't see Home and End key which are both pretty useful, but saw scroll lock key which is totally useless.

kinglukas38 · « **Reply #43 on:** Wed, 29 March 2017, 08:19:00 »

Quote from: dantan on Wed, 29 March 2017, 07:59:01

just curious but I didn't see Home and End key which are both pretty useful, but saw scroll lock key which is totally useless.

I'm sure you'll be able to make those keys whatever your heart desires

merlin64 · « **Reply #44 on:** Wed, 29 March 2017, 09:44:30 »

Are you serious about the 10u support? I'll finally have a keyboard to put my Wyse space bar on!!

kiwi99 · « **Reply #45 on:** Wed, 29 March 2017, 10:01:49 »

Quote from: merlin64 on Wed, 29 March 2017, 09:44:30

Are you serious about the 10u support? I'll finally have a keyboard to put my Wyse space bar on!!

It was mostly a joke

sorry to get your hopes up!

merlin64 · « **Reply #46 on:** Wed, 29 March 2017, 10:31:13 »

Oh..I'm totally not interested in this keyboard then

JK JK.

kiwi99 · « **Reply #47 on:** Wed, 29 March 2017, 10:56:36 »

Quote from: dantan on Wed, 29 March 2017, 07:59:01

just curious but I didn't see Home and End key which are both pretty useful, but saw scroll lock key which is totally useless.

That was just a quick mockup done in keyboard layout editor. But like what kinglukas implied the pcb will be fully programmable meaning you can have any key you wish to have bounded.
Also I agree with you that I think scroll lock is totally useless as well and ended up taking out the scroll lock indicator on the pcb.

Quote from: Pwner on Wed, 29 March 2017, 03:35:40

Quote from: kiwi99 on Tue, 28 March 2017, 22:03:50
Show Image

Show Image

Are you planning on doing a GB or just a small run? Either way, I'd like to buy one whenever possible!

There seems like their might be enough interest for a small run or group buy maybe once I finalize some stuff some more I will open up an IC maybe. Right now I am just looking at my different manufacturing options and options for SMD assembly.

dantan · « **Reply #48 on:** Wed, 29 March 2017, 12:09:06 »

yyea. due to scroll lock's uselessness, I'd suggest saving that LED for layer lock or something more sensible.

kiwi99 · « **Reply #49 on:** Sat, 01 April 2017, 22:50:35 »

Alright, so I have finished touching up the PCB, had some stuff to do irl but got some time to do a bit more.

I'm am now looking at pricing and wondering on some input from interested parties on price and what would you think is fair for a pcb.

I am looking into pre-assembly with smd components but that would drive up the price quite a bit, the other option I've looked into doing the SMD by ordering solder paste stencil and hot air rework station (at my own cost) which I feel like that's something I may be able to do for this as there is no "micro" smd the smallest smd is 0805 sized, I am fairly confident in my soldering experience and I've been watching lots of videos and using a solderpaste stencil seems really quite easy and I can order one with the pcbs

So let you know what you think, I also wanna make it clear no matter what if you want one I wouldn't ask for any money upfront until I have a working product. Just want to hear your opinion if having the smd done by the factory a must for you guys or if you'd trust me to do it.

News:

Author Topic: The Switch 180 Custom Keyboard (Read 45561 times)