[IC] GMK SKIDATA+ (GB IS LIVE)

[hwood34]

So will this basically look like charred orange? I really didn't care for it, I wished the orange would have stood out more.

No, it will be a brighter orange. I like to think of Charred Orange as a mistake. The color is dull, doesn't pop at all, compared to Skidata where it pops nicely, and the Charred Orange legends appear translucent. If my description isn't detailed enough Karura has a post w/ some more info.

Yeah, a big problem with Charred orange was the orange legends, which were super pale in part because they were also pretty translucent.

[jdcarpe]

These LEDs are orange, but the legends don't appear to be translucent on Charred Orange, at least to me they don't. Keep in mind this is a phone pic.






So, how will the legends in the Skidata+ set differ from those in Charred Orange? Doesn't GMK only have a limited color selection? I assume Originative used the standard orange color. Will Skidata+ use a custom color?

[SpAmRaY]

These LEDs are orange, but the legends don't appear to be translucent on Charred Orange, at least to me they don't. Keep in mind this is a phone pic.

Show Image

So, how will the legends in the Skidata+ set differ from those in Charred Orange? Doesn't GMK only have a limited color selection? I assume Originative used the standard orange color. Will Skidata+ use a custom color?

That is what I was trying to ask. ;)

[sethk_]

These LEDs are orange, but the legends don't appear to be translucent on Charred Orange, at least to me they don't. Keep in mind this is a phone pic.

Show Image

So, how will the legends in the Skidata+ set differ from those in Charred Orange? Doesn't GMK only have a limited color selection? I assume Originative used the standard orange color. Will Skidata+ use a custom color?

That is what I was trying to ask. ;)

I can't remember, but there was a picture of the legends glowing a little. I am sure Karura will post some more w/ the information he has. He showed me a little bit of info about the difference.

[Karura]

These LEDs are orange, but the legends don't appear to be translucent on Charred Orange, at least to me they don't. Keep in mind this is a phone pic.
So, how will the legends in the Skidata+ set differ from those in Charred Orange? Doesn't GMK only have a limited color selection? I assume Originative used the standard orange color. Will Skidata+ use a custom color?

So will this basically look like charred orange? I really didn't care for it, I wished the orange would have stood out more.

Alright, I understand this is a pretty important topic, so I would like to clear this up once and for all.

I have both Skidata and Charred Orange, and while they are the same colour way, the orange on Charred Orange is actually darker/less bright. They look different.

GMK Charred Orange (Originative) is a flawed set

Most importantly, it is flawed in two ways:
1) The doubleshot process was flawed, I do not know how or why, but the orange itself is "thinner" and appears less bright and more "translucent"
Why is thinner/translucent a problem? Because the base of the keycap is dark grey/charcoal, having a thinner/translucent orange means that Orange on top becomes darker, and as a result, loses the "pop" and contrast of the original Skidata orange.

2) The tab mould used was a really weird one that is not standard.

I came to this conclusion after doing some keyboard science. I did not take good photos at the time, but since this is a pretty important point I am making, I will go and re-do the experiment and take some photos.

Before I go AFK and take some photos, I would like to quickly highlight the flaws in the charred orange set, using Longzilla's photos:
Please view in full-size to see the subtle differences.

1) Look at the Alt key, notice how "A" and "t" are lighter coloured (translucent looking) than the "l".
2) Look at Control, notice how the bottom half of the entire "Control" plastic is translucent.
3) Same with the Shift, Capslock, and Tab as well. Basically the whole keyset has this problem with translucent/thin orange plastic, including the alphas.

The original Skidata did not have this problem, and I will bring this up with GMK and do my best to offer a perfect set for this GB.


This appears to merely be a quality control issue with the double shot process.

[jdcarpe]

I wasn't and am not trying to say there is anything wrong with this buy, so please don't misunderstand. In fact, I think it's a great idea to go ahead with it, even if it were exactly the same as Originative's Charred Orange set, save for the Tab legend.

However, the difference in the legends between the original Skidata set and Originative's Charred Orange MIGHT be due to a reformulation in the plastic composition between then and now. I'm only speculating, as we were told the formulations had changed since some of the historical sets, e.g. Triumph Adler, we're produced. It was said that the original blue color of the TA set yellowed over time, to give a nice teal color, which would not happen with GMK's modern plastic formulation. Thoughts?

[sethk_]

I wasn't and am not trying to say there is anything wrong with this buy, so please don't misunderstand. In fact, I think it's a great idea to go ahead with it, even if it were exactly the same as Originative's Charred Orange set, save for the Tab legend.

However, the difference in the legends between the original Skidata set and Originative's Charred Orange MIGHT be due to a reformulation in the plastic composition between then and now. I'm only speculating, as we were told the formulations had changed since some of the historical sets, e.g. Triumph Adler, we're produced. It was said that the original blue color of the TA set yellowed over time, to give a nice teal color, which would not happen with GMK's modern plastic formulation. Thoughts?

I don't recall when TA was made, but Skidata was 1994, and was made completely by GMK. I don't know the relevance of this to your question, but it might answer or give hint to answering the question, or at least un-fog some areas.

[Karura]

I wasn't and am not trying to say there is anything wrong with this buy, so please don't misunderstand. In fact, I think it's a great idea to go ahead with it, even if it were exactly the same as Originative's Charred Orange set, save for the Tab legend.

However, the difference in the legends between the original Skidata set and Originative's Charred Orange MIGHT be due to a reformulation in the plastic composition between then and now. I'm only speculating, as we were told the formulations had changed since some of the historical sets, e.g. Triumph Adler, we're produced. It was said that the original blue color of the TA set yellowed over time, to give a nice teal color, which would not happen with GMK's modern plastic formulation. Thoughts?

You raise some good points, and don't worry, I understand where you're coming from

I personally feel it's quite a shame that Charred Orange was not able to be "perfect", that is one of the reasons why I wanted to do this colourway.
I know there are lots of people who believe it has been done before, but since CO was such a failure, I'd rather not count it

Regarding the plastic reformulation, Skidata itself is actually not that old, and is not a Cherry-made keyboard.

I have disassembled mine before, and peeking inside the PCB, I discovered that Skidata is an 100% GMK made keyboard (so it is fairly modern). This means that the problem with the legends is most likely related to the plastics in some way, but I don't think it is a reformulation if Skidata was originally manufactured by GMK.

Edit: Looks like while I was typing this up, Seth had already replied haha.

[hwood34]

I wasn't and am not trying to say there is anything wrong with this buy, so please don't misunderstand. In fact, I think it's a great idea to go ahead with it, even if it were exactly the same as Originative's Charred Orange set, save for the Tab legend.

However, the difference in the legends between the original Skidata set and Originative's Charred Orange MIGHT be due to a reformulation in the plastic composition between then and now. I'm only speculating, as we were told the formulations had changed since some of the historical sets, e.g. Triumph Adler, we're produced. It was said that the original blue color of the TA set yellowed over time, to give a nice teal color, which would not happen with GMK's modern plastic formulation. Thoughts?

Maybe some sort of reformulation for environmental concerns? Basically the only two logical reasons would be that and cost

[Karura]

Alright, time for some Keyboard Science! 

Here we have:
1x Poker2 with bright white LEDs on the WASD cluster, Esc, and Spacebar.
1x WASD from OG Skidata
1x WASD from Charred Orange

With the naked eye, Charred Orange is very slightly more translucent and darker, but it is difficult to capture with my phone camera.


Lights offs, LEDs on, Charred Orange:


Now, with OG Skidata:


As we can observe, it appears that all doubleshot keycaps are at risk of bleeding light, but in the case of Charred Orange, it seems to be bleeding a lot more.

I have also ran this test with the following: (Due to the difficulty of photography, I did not take photos of these).
EK Red WASD
Ivan GMK Dolch WASD

Results were similar to the OG Skidata, where you will see a little light around the stem area, but nothing drastic like Charred Orange.

Conclusion: Originative's Charred Orange is a flawed set. Something must have gone wrong during the double shot process.

[LechnerDE]

Thanks for the tests 

I am sure if you make GMK aware of those issues, they can do some internal tests beforehand and not screw up the final production run.

If this set came out like Charred Orange I'd probably never use it...

[KHAANNN]

I have to say the Charred Orange seems more "unique" rather than "flawed" - the bleed-through might even be considered a feature, with backlights on, it becomes more like a "spooky orange" set

Of course, these all affect people who use backlighted keyboards, that's not me

I hope you don't mind me saying, but, with the Originative Orange available instantly, the only way (in my mind) for this set to reach MOQ is with some awesome extras

With Massdrop starting to pop a new GMK keyset one after another, the GMK scene seems more challenged

[Oobly]

What we all really want is Orangesicle: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70797.0

[rowdy]

What we all really want is Orangesicle: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70797.0

Can't argue with statistics )

[Karura]

Thanks for the tests 

I am sure if you make GMK aware of those issues, they can do some internal tests beforehand and not screw up the final production run.

If this set came out like Charred Orange I'd probably never use it...

No problem, I am glad to educate

I will bring it up with GMK for sure, and chances are, we will avoid this problem, as it only seems to exist on the Originative sets. No other GMK/Cherry keycaps have had this problem in the past.

I have to say the Charred Orange seems more "unique" rather than "flawed" - the bleed-through might even be considered a feature, with backlights on, it becomes more like a "spooky orange" set

I would like to respectfully disagree, because no other GMK or Cherry keysets have had this problem.

Also, if you look at my photos again, you will see that the Charred Orange light-bleed is very blotchey and uneven. It is very difficult to capture on camera and I tried my best.

If it was actually even throughout, I'd be happy to agree It would actually be pretty cool, but not when it's inconsistent and uneven.

[Karura]

What we all really want is Orangesicle: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70797.0

Can't argue with statistics )

While I do appreciate the discussion, the colourway for this buy will stick true to V2 (Orange) and N9 (Dark Grey).

It's not public knowledge, but SKIDATA+ has actually been in the works for over 10 months, and most of the layouts and design choices have already been finalized.

To be completely transparent, it started with reaching out to JaccoW and other members of the community that had already owned the set, to me actually acquiring both the Skidata keyboard, and Charred Orange, only to be disappointed that Charred Orange had some flaws with the legends and colours.
Then additional research on GMK legends, layout design and support, and other important factors that contribute to a successful group buy was conducted.

There was a lot of legwork involved and research done to reach the point where I felt comfortable in starting an IC.

I am completely dedicated to making this happen, and together, I am sure we will have a successful GB 

[Halverson]

I miss my OG skidata, hope this goes through

[hoggy]

I've got a typenow solid that would look great with these caps.

[Oobly]

Don't get me wrong, I ALSO want this set And I'm not alone in that. Didn't mean to say that this set isn't worth getting.

I really like the look of the original SkiData boards, but not such a fan of their layout, so with this set I can get the same look, but in the layout I like. I almost pulled the trigger on the Charred set a few months back, very glad now that I didn't.

[Karura]

Don't get me wrong, I ALSO want this set And I'm not alone in that. Didn't mean to say that this set isn't worth getting.

I really like the look of the original SkiData boards, but not such a fan of their layout, so with this set I can get the same look, but in the layout I like. I almost pulled the trigger on the Charred set a few months back, very glad now that I didn't.

Thank you, I am really glad to have your support. Really, thank you and everyone else for showing so much support. GMK should be back from vacation in a week or two, and hopefully I will finally be able to explain the layouts using the mockups

[64rky]

What we all really want is Orangesicle: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70797.0

Can't argue with statistics )

While I do appreciate the discussion, the colourway for this buy will stick true to V2 (Orange) and N9 (Dark Grey).

It's not public knowledge, but SKIDATA+ has actually been in the works for over 10 months, and most of the layouts and design choices have already been finalized.

To be completely transparent, it started with reaching out to JaccoW and other members of the community that had already owned the set, to me actually acquiring both the Skidata keyboard, and Charred Orange, only to be disappointed that Charred Orange had some flaws with the legends and colours.
Then additional research on GMK legends, layout design and support, and other important factors that contribute to a successful group buy was conducted.

There was a lot of legwork involved and research done to reach the point where I felt comfortable in starting an IC.

I am completely dedicated to making this happen, and together, I am sure we will have a successful GB 

With you 100% captain Orange! 

I am relatively new to this community, and am always blow away by how much time and effort everyone puts into these group buys, which benefits Sooooo many people. The level of detail that goes into these designs is extraordinary.

Apologies for my waffling, but I'm impressed.

I hope this kicks off, I love the idea!

[yicaoyimu]

Want so bad!

[Data]

What we all really want is Orangesicle: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70797.0

Can't argue with statistics )

While I do appreciate the discussion, the colourway for this buy will stick true to V2 (Orange) and N9 (Dark Grey).

It's not public knowledge, but SKIDATA+ has actually been in the works for over 10 months, and most of the layouts and design choices have already been finalized.

To be completely transparent, it started with reaching out to JaccoW and other members of the community that had already owned the set, to me actually acquiring both the Skidata keyboard, and Charred Orange, only to be disappointed that Charred Orange had some flaws with the legends and colours.
Then additional research on GMK legends, layout design and support, and other important factors that contribute to a successful group buy was conducted.

There was a lot of legwork involved and research done to reach the point where I felt comfortable in starting an IC.

I am completely dedicated to making this happen, and together, I am sure we will have a successful GB 

This post helps your GB (IC) in ways you may not even realize.  That's an impressive amount of research and planning.  If I was on the fence before, I'm definitely a fan now.

[YoungMichael88]

Keeping my eye on this one.

[SpAmRaY]

Keeping my eye on this one.

Whoa, who is this guy?

[Halverson]

Keeping my eye on this one.

Literal eye. He has one eye. He's a pirate. A butt pirate. Arrrrrrr matey

[YoungMichael88]

Will there be 1x mods included as well as tsangan sets?

[Halverson]

Will there be 1x mods included as well as tsangan sets?

Hush child, don't make a fool of yourself. Just text me lol

[YoungMichael88]

Will there be 1x mods included as well as tsangan sets?

Hush child, don't make a fool of yourself. Just text me lol

But what fun is that?

[Karura]

Will there be 1x mods included as well as tsangan sets?

WKL keys, including 1u window keys will be included.

I have literally seen no one use 1u Ctrl, Alt keys so those will probably not be included. Do you require it?

[YoungMichael88]

Will there be 1x mods included as well as tsangan sets?

WKL keys, including 1u window keys will be included.

I have literally seen no one use 1u Ctrl, Alt keys so those will probably not be included. Do you require it?

No just the win keys. Thanks.

[jdcarpe]

Will there be 1x mods included as well as tsangan sets?

WKL keys, including 1u window keys will be included.

I have literally seen no one use 1u Ctrl, Alt keys so those will probably not be included. Do you require it?

I use a 1u Alt on my JD40

[Halverson]

Will there be 1x mods included as well as tsangan sets?

WKL keys, including 1u window keys will be included.

I have literally seen no one use 1u Ctrl, Alt keys so those will probably not be included. Do you require it?

I use a 1u Alt on my JD40

Quiet you!

[64rky]

This group buy and the orange ducky one is my next work board,  done!

[Orca]

Some ideas for modifiers,

grey + orange legends
white + orange legends
orange + black legends

[mrflow3r]

Gr. Take my money. All of it.

[Data]

Some ideas for modifiers,

grey + orange legends
white + orange legends
orange + black legends

I'd support a separate GB for inverted (black legends on orange) modifiers for this set.  That's very nearly my dream set.  But it's probably too much to ask from this GB.  GMK's MOQ doesn't play nice with add-ons. 

[Karura]

I'd support a separate GB for inverted (black legends on orange) modifiers for this set.  That's very nearly my dream set.  But it's probably too much to ask from this GB.  GMK's MOQ doesn't play nice with add-ons. 

Almost everything that people have mentioned in the thread has already been considered months ago, and many ideas have already been included in the design of the entire set. The design has been finalized for many months now.
Sit tight and wait for the mockups. You won't be disappointed.

[LechnerDE]

I'd support a separate GB for inverted (black legends on orange) modifiers for this set.  That's very nearly my dream set.  But it's probably too much to ask from this GB.  GMK's MOQ doesn't play nice with add-ons. 

Almost everything that people have mentioned in the thread has already been considered months ago, and many ideas have already been included in the design of the entire set. The design has been finalized for many months now.
Sit tight and wait for the mockups. You won't be disappointed.

So what's the planned timeline for this GB?

Do you plan to launch it after GMK Classic Beige is finished?

I am just asking so I can manage my keyboard budget accordingly 

[Giorgio]

Are the ISO keys included in the main package - like all the gb, except classic beige - or are they available as an addon? Do you plan to ship from the usa or do you have a proxy? Delivering from the usa should be better (no vat and no import taxes if the value is"correct").

[maroder]

Interested.  A option for German ISO-Layout would be an Instant-Buy. 

[Data]

I'd support a separate GB for inverted (black legends on orange) modifiers for this set.  That's very nearly my dream set.  But it's probably too much to ask from this GB.  GMK's MOQ doesn't play nice with add-ons. 

Almost everything that people have mentioned in the thread has already been considered months ago, and many ideas have already been included in the design of the entire set. The design has been finalized for many months now.
Sit tight and wait for the mockups. You won't be disappointed.

Yeah I wasn't asking you to add anything.  Actually, the opposite. 

[MaNiFeX]

Very interested in this set!   

[jerue]

Working on getting a Data 911, I think this keyset would look great on it.

Gonna have to vote for 1u CTRL and ALT keys at least. Not sure if 1.25 and 1.5 Shift keys have been discussed but I think I'll need those as well. I'm sure I could find a blank 1.5u key for that weird "1" key, or maybe I could get an extra add on.

[KHAANNN]

Working on getting a Data 911, I think this keyset would look great on it.

Gonna have to vote for 1u CTRL and ALT keys at least. Not sure if 1.25 and 1.5 Shift keys have been discussed but I think I'll need those as well. I'm sure I could find a blank 1.5u key for that weird "1" key, or maybe I could get an extra add on.

I don't know too much about GMK's, but I don't think there is a 1.5 Shift

If the "1" key is up above, I don't think you can find a satisfactory blank either

[Giorgio]

Do F and J have a dash or a deep dish?

[LechnerDE]

Do F and J have a dash or a deep dish?

Since this is a GMK set that tries to be faithful to the original I assume there will be scoops.

[KHAANNN]

Do F and J have a dash or a deep dish?

I would say 99.99% scoops

gmkgbers don't care about us dashers

[Giorgio]

I want an usable set, not a faithful one. How can you be faithful by adding keys that weren't in the original set (which furthermore was probably iso)?

Faithful... let's talk about how faithful are the colors of TA ;-)

Do F and J have a dash or a deep dish?

Since this is a GMK set that tries to be faithful to the original I assume there will be scoops.

[LechnerDE]

So you are saying scoops are unusable?

I bet the majority of Geekhack will disagree with that statement...