Alps Appreciation Thread

[Quackles]

Some of you may have seen this already, but I just finished a big (for me) AEKII project, and I'm loving the results!

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Full album here: http://imgur.com/a/muJvc

I'm already itching to do something more with my salmons and on the hunt for some orange and/or blue switches. I've been using Matias switches (both Click and Quiet Click) for about five years now but only got into vintage switches in the last few months. I love the click-modded salmons to death, but click-modded creams are a nice compromise, quiet enough that I can use them while my wife and kids are sleeping but still nice and clicky.

Really great work, was in awe when I saw it on Reddit. Was the Apple logo used a sticker or from the case of an AEK?

[mike52787]

Some of you may have seen this already, but I just finished a big (for me) AEKII project, and I'm loving the results!

Show Image

Full album here: http://imgur.com/a/muJvc

I'm already itching to do something more with my salmons and on the hunt for some orange and/or blue switches. I've been using Matias switches (both Click and Quiet Click) for about five years now but only got into vintage switches in the last few months. I love the click-modded salmons to death, but click-modded creams are a nice compromise, quiet enough that I can use them while my wife and kids are sleeping but still nice and clicky.

Thats beautiful. Great work!

[djpyle]

Some of you may have seen this already, but I just finished a big (for me) AEKII project, and I'm loving the results!

Show Image

Full album here: http://imgur.com/a/muJvc

I'm already itching to do something more with my salmons and on the hunt for some orange and/or blue switches. I've been using Matias switches (both Click and Quiet Click) for about five years now but only got into vintage switches in the last few months. I love the click-modded salmons to death, but click-modded creams are a nice compromise, quiet enough that I can use them while my wife and kids are sleeping but still nice and clicky.

Really great work, was in awe when I saw it on Reddit. Was the Apple logo used a sticker or from the case of an AEK?

Thanks! It's the logo from the original case. I traced it onto the wood and Dremeled out a depression for it so it could sit more flush with the case. It wasn't the neatest job, but you can't really see how sloppy it is unless you look closely, and I like having it on there.  :)

[Hypersphere]

Alps Return Springs: Is there a compilation somewhere of the differences and similarities of Alps return springs, both across different Alps switch types (and clones) and within a given switch type?

For example, the return springs in SKCM white switches are shorter than those in Matias Click switches. Alps return springs can be the same length but have a different number of coils. Some are silver-colored while others are gold-colored, etc.

[E3E]

I found an "86" one one of those with a Texas Instruments (?) logo next to it.

Sounds like it's from 1986 at least. That sounds about right for these switches. They're not as early SKCL Greens as far as I can tell.

Alps Return Springs: Is there a compilation somewhere of the differences and similarities of Alps return springs, both across different Alps switch types (and clones) and within a given switch type?

For example, the return springs in SKCM white switches are shorter than those in Matias Click switches. Alps return springs can be the same length but have a different number of coils. Some are silver-colored while others are gold-colored, etc.

There's an incredible amount of variation in the springs. I can say that in -most- blue Alps I've come across with long white switch plates, there are usually shiny and slightly shorter springs. Older versions with grey switch plates usually have a color range from dull to gold-tinged.

Salmons usually have gold-tinged springs, but not all the time. I've seen gold and silver springs in the same batch.

Bamboo generation switches have shorter springs than their pine counterparts, though they seem to have more coils.

[Hypersphere]

Thanks, E3E. That's quite a few variables to optimize if one is attempting to make the perfect hybridized switch!

[klennkellon]

[E3E]

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Alps SKCL Brown, SKCL Cream, SKCM Cream (unless that's it just above damped?), and SKCL Striped Amber are apparently on another plane of reality, not able to be perceived by mere mortal alpinists. :P Neon Green is the gateway.

Also, Razer Alps... Hahaha.

Wait a second, SKCL Cream is depicted as "damped alps," haha. Oh boy. I can't tell if cream is damped or typical. Why am I analyzing this so much? I'm ruining the fun. :b

[Mattr567]

Neon Green is the gateway to the 4th dimension of Alps rarity.

And SKCL Striped Amber is king.

[Hypersphere]

Now I feel terrible. As one who likes white Alps, it appears that I am stuck down in the base camp.

[alienman82]

removed.

[mike52787]

SKCM cream should be the summit.

[Norman_the_Owl]

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Why is yellow alps so much lower than green? Aren't they basically the same, other than yellow being a bit heavier?

[MandrewDavis]

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You like ambers more than blue alps too :D

Black<Cream Dampened<Salmon<Ivory<Orange≈Brown

Pine razer greens (lol) sound perfect if they really are in-between Oranges and Browns.

[E3E]

To be honest, they always reminded me of the Razer green switches, if only because of the color, haha. I've never seen those in person though so they might actually not be that similar.

[alienman82]

removed.

[E3E]

Oh my.

I need to find another Multistation set.

[Mattr567]

Multistation caps on a 60% are amazing. Need to retrobright mine, decided it looks better.

[E3E]

Those Chinese caps are really neat with their blue legends. 
 
I wonder why Chinese caps had those blue legends.



Like, the hiragana and such on the Japanese caps don't have an alternate color, nor do the Korean caps I've seen on IBM 5576-002 boards.



I wonder what the difference is between these here and the above ones. I know there are several different writing systems for Chinese text input. I think the IBM ones are Simplified Chinese, but I really can't be sure.

[E3E]

Just thought of a silly name for SKCL Striped Amber (I like this one).

SKCL Hotdog

SKCL Ketchup 'n' Mustard

[alienman82]

removed.

[Hypersphere]

Recently, I finished installing an Orihalcon/Soarer internal USB converter and panel-mount micro-USB connector in a Zenith Z-150 keyboard (black label 84-key XT-like layout). This is the version with SKCL green Alps switches and dye-sub PBT keycaps. However, I put the Zenith dye-sub PBT caps on a LE DC-2014 blue Alps board, which has almost the same layout as the Zenith. So, I am typing this on the Zenith with doubleshot ABS caps from the DC-2014.

The XT-like layouts on the LE DC-2014 and the Zenith Z-150 are actually not bad at all, and they lend themselves to remapping to a HHKB-like layout. For example, there is a short Right Shift with a */PrtSc key to its right that serves nicely as a Fn key, and the elongated Right Bracket works well as a Backspace.



I have had a bias toward clicky or tactile switches, and I didn't expect to like the linear green Alps. However, I do like them. They are extremely smooth. The Zenith board also feels very solid; it doesn't have a hollow plastic sound like the LE DC-2014 (although I like it as well -- it is "thocky" like my HHKB). On the other hand, I find that I am missing some keystrokes and getting unintentional additional keystrokes, perhaps because of the absence of tactile or clicky feedback. I tried turning on the beep from the internal speaker (Alt+Esc), but I found this distracting and turned it back off.

I am considering doing a click mod on the Zenith, using click leaves and top housings from white Alps switches. If I don't like the result, it is readily reversible. I would like to clean the switches anyway, because I am getting some chattering on some keys, which I hope can be eliminated with cleaning.

[mike52787]

I have been looking for a panel mount mini usb for awhile now, where did you get yours?

[chyros]

I have had a bias toward clicky or tactile switches, and I didn't expect to like the linear green Alps. However, I do like them. They are extremely smooth.

This is exactly what I had at first as well . I didn't like any linear switches until I tried linear Alps, and now I have several linear switches I really love. In fact I've heard the exact same story from quite a few members now, they hate linears until they tried linear Alps.

I know Cherry has a reputation for making inherently linear switches, but the way I see it, they're not even good at that because their linear switches suck ass; they're badly weighted and scratchy as hell; the two things most important for linear switches. Green or linearised Alps have perfect weighting and are smooth as ****.

[MandrewDavis]

I just scored a white label AT Z-150 for $32 on eBay. After seeing your post, I wish I never sold all my scratchy white alps. Never occurred to me I could keep them for click-modding.

[loud_asian]

oh man, just read the last 20 pages of this thread. I'm feeling an urge to build an alps board now

[zslane]

Multistation caps are awesome because they are spherical. Unfortunately mixing them with cylindrical mods (that don't even match color-wise) looks awful. To my mind, a better alternative would be a full DSA set with ALPs stems. Can't wait for my LightCycle DSA set!

[E3E]

Multistation caps are awesome because they are spherical. Unfortunately mixing them with cylindrical mods (that don't even match color-wise) looks awful. To my mind, a better alternative would be a full DSA set with ALPs stems. Can't wait for my LightCycle DSA set!

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Haha, yes. I agree. The reason I mixed them with the Alps DCS modifier pack is because my 60% build relies on Cherry stabilizers due to the plate I'm using. I might have lasergist cut a steel plate or try a little idea for PCB-mount, removable Alps stabilizers I had to make them work with this plate.

Multistation keys could work, but you'd have to reuse tab for the pipe/backslash key, and unfortunately, left shift for the Enter key, but it would look pretty okay.

I've got an order for Lightcycle too, but the difference is that the Multistation caps and other sets like it are sculpted hi profile key caps, of which there are no real alternatives for Alps. D:

I have had a bias toward clicky or tactile switches, and I didn't expect to like the linear green Alps. However, I do like them. They are extremely smooth.

This is exactly what I had at first as well . I didn't like any linear switches until I tried linear Alps, and now I have several linear switches I really love. In fact I've heard the exact same story from quite a few members now, they hate linears until they tried linear Alps.

I know Cherry has a reputation for making inherently linear switches, but the way I see it, they're not even good at that because their linear switches suck ass; they're badly weighted and scratchy as hell; the two things most important for linear switches. Green or linearised Alps have perfect weighting and are smooth as ****.

My first mechanical keyboard was linear, so they quickly became a switch type I felt at home on. I seldom make mistakes on linear switches, but when I was first getting used to them, I would fat finger and also accidentally actuate keys on the lighter switches.

Take off your clicky and tactile training wheels and learn true switch discipline with linears! 

[zslane]

Multistation caps and other sets like it are sculpted hi profile key caps, of which there are no real alternatives for Alps. D:

Yeah, tell me about it. When it comes to Alps, our keycap choices are severely limited, especially if we're fans of sphericals.

For my own part, I don't entirely mind uniform row3 keys on 60% boards. I tried SA on one of my Pok3rs once and didn't really care for it (even though I love SA on my full-size boards). So I can live quite happily with DSA on my KBP V60 mini.

[Hypersphere]

I agree that the Light Cycle set looks good according to at least two virtues: the spherical tops and the consistency of profile.

But as Winston Churchill famously said, "…it is better to be both right and consistent. But if you have to choose—you must choose to be right."

The DSA profile is consistent, but for me it just isn't right. I need a sculpted profile, both for aesthetics and function. I cannot type well on a flat profile like DSA, and I like the look of varying row heights as in OEM, Cherry, Leopold, DCS, and SA, or as achieved via a curved plate in IBM Model F and Model M keyboards.

I wish I could type well on DSA, as this would certainly increase my keyset options for Alps-mount keyboards.

[loud_asian]

There's an Alps64 build with SKCL greens and a set of SGI caps for $220 on /r/mechmarket right now.

I was thinking about picking it up and modding it to fit into a spare X60 case that I'll have.

Is $220 a good price or should I try and get it for lower?

[zslane]

The DSA profile is consistent, but for me it just isn't right. I need a sculpted profile, both for aesthetics and function. I cannot type well on a flat profile like DSA, and I like the look of varying row heights as in OEM, Cherry, Leopold, DCS, and SA, or as achieved via a curved plate in IBM Model F and Model M keyboards.

Yeah, I hear you.

And in general I am of a similar mind in that I prefer SA because it is (usually) sculptured. I don't know why I don't have an issue with DSA on 60% boards. It isn't logical. But there it is.

But even if I disliked a uniform R3 profile (on 60% boards), I'd still take DSA over any cylindrical keyset, sculptured or not. I simply do not type on cylindricals. Full stop.

Which is why my V60 mini sits in a corner, unused, awaiting LightCycle DSA. I'd rather not use it at all than type on cylindricals.

[Hypersphere]

Interesting how we develop such finely tuned preferences. Oddly enough, although I love the look of sphericals, I don't type as well on them as I do on cylindricals. However, this might simply be due to acclimation and practice. I only have one spherical set (Carbon SA on my Novatouch) and I don't type on it very often. I spend most of my typing time on a wide variety of other keyboards, all with cylindrical caps. Maybe if I typed on nothing but my NT for a few weeks or so, I might not want to return to cylindricals. Who knows? The same might apply to DSA!

[zslane]

Part of it is my subconscious desire to return to my youth, I guess. I have a deep, deep affection for the keyboards I first used when I began using computers (i.e., terminals like the Honeywell BTRM 121 connected to multi-user mainframes). That was the golden era of fully sculptured, double-shot ABS sphericals on linear switches. Even the early personal computers like the Apple II, the TRS-80, and the Commodore machines used sphericals.

That glorious age was sundered to ruin in 1981 when IBM brought its desktop plague to the world. I have been suffering ever since. So you can imagine the joy I feel for the resurgent availability of SA and DSA keycaps today.

I think the only keyboard I really liked in the last 30 years, despite its cylindrical keycaps, was the AEKII. Hence my interest in Alps switches. But Alps or no Alps, if I'm gonna type on it now, it has to have sphericals.

[E3E]

I'm unsure where I fall when it comes to sphericals versus cylindricals. I seem to type just fine on either, not like I'm a first class record-breaking (or even close) typist, but yeah. I like to think of myself as someone who can adapt pretty well to different key caps and layouts. Typing on a JIS layout has been a blast on these IBM Japan 5576-002s.

I'd have to say that SA is somewhat laughable compared to Alps spherical sculptured key caps, which are more scooped and have a very nice sculpt to them. Oh, and a nice texture too!

Do we have any concrete examples of vintage/pre-enthusiast era keyboards that actually used SP's SA key caps? I've been trying to find an example, but I haven't had any luck. I've seen both DSA and DCS, but not SA.

I think sculpted sphericals look and feel good on certain keyboards; lower profile keyboards is where they are most at home, in my opinion. Uniforms sphericals, especially low-profile ones like DSA, are more at home on keyboards with sharp inclines, and stepped cylindrical is kind of a happy medium, but not ideal for flat keyboards or those with a slight incline.

[tomboy]

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Oh my.

I need to find another Multistation set.

ooooh, I want those caps so bad

[mike52787]

There's an Alps64 build with SKCL greens and a set of SGI caps for $220 on /r/mechmarket right now.

I was thinking about picking it up and modding it to fit into a spare X60 case that I'll have.

Is $220 a good price or should I try and get it for lower?

Thats a pretty good price, I would snag it!

[Mattr567]

Would anyone be interested in some super clean SKCM White Damp's? Selling for V80 MTS money.

Also now that ive sold my G80 and traded my Model M literally all my keyboards are Alps

[alienman82]

removed.

[Norman_the_Owl]

I'm considering picking up a Wang 725-3770 with black alps because i'm a slut who doesn't appreciate nice switches.

Is it actually a decent quality board? NKRO or 2KRO or what?

The only info on deskthority is switches and model numbers basically, as well as a few pictures.

[MandrewDavis]

I'm considering picking up a Wang 725-3770 with black alps because i'm a slut who doesn't appreciate nice switches.

Is it actually a decent quality board? NKRO or 2KRO or what?

The only info on deskthority is switches and model numbers basically, as well as a few pictures.

If you didn't appreciate nice switches you wouldn't have come to this thread in the first place  Caps are nice enough that the Kingsaver was designed around them but you will quickly learn how bad black alps are.

[mike52787]

I'm considering picking up a Wang 725-3770 with black alps because i'm a slut who doesn't appreciate nice switches.

Is it actually a decent quality board? NKRO or 2KRO or what?

The only info on deskthority is switches and model numbers basically, as well as a few pictures.

Just wait to buy one off ebay, you may get lucky and get one with salmons or even oranges. The wang 725-3770 is a great board, with sweet pbt dyesubs, awesome build quality, and NKRO.

[alienman82]

removed.

[Mattr567]

The Wang uses Pine SKCM Black i'm pretty sure. Still not as good as SKCM Salmon or Orange though.

[mike52787]

The Wang uses Pine SKCM Black i'm pretty sure. Still not as good as SKCM Salmon or Orange though.

Wangs can use Pine black, salmon, or orange, and the lock led switches can be yellow or green.

[Norman_the_Owl]

I'm considering picking up a Wang 725-3770 with black alps because i'm a slut who doesn't appreciate nice switches.

Is it actually a decent quality board? NKRO or 2KRO or what?

The only info on deskthority is switches and model numbers basically, as well as a few pictures.

If you didn't appreciate nice switches you wouldn't have come to this thread in the first place  Caps are nice enough that the Kingsaver was designed around them but you will quickly learn how bad black alps are.

Fair enough on the first part, but an AT101W with black alps i got for 3 bucks convinced me to never buy cherry again, don't undersell them too much!

As for everyone else, thanks for the info, I'll consider my options. Finding one with orange alps would be lifechanging, but I'm never that lucky 

[E3E]

Don't feel bad. The orange Alps ones are very seldom seen from what I've seen. Blacks are most common, then Salmons, then Oranges. There must've been a tiny window for them at the beginning of the 725-3770's production span.

[alh84001]

I'm considering picking up a Wang 725-3770 with black alps because i'm a slut who doesn't appreciate nice switches.

I assume you got it on ebay for ~$90 BIN. I was waiting with a low snipe and planned putting in my loose oranges XD. Hope it serves you well

[mike52787]

Ive personally never tried SKCM black, so I cant speak for it. I have however tried a loose switch, and the tactility was pretty bumpy. The other switches that come in the wang boards though are some of the best tactile switches ever made. you should give them a try.

[alh84001]

Pine blacks are pretty nice. I don't know if it has those. I only have bamboo blacks in one board, and that's a really well kept AT101W, and they are pretty shallow, kind of like what some here described salmons to be, but maybe a bit more scratchy, or lets say "noisy" under the finger.