3D printing

[dotemacs]

Hello,

I see a lot of people mod the keyboards to suit their needs some even design their own.

Have any of you tried 3D printing of keyboard cases or key caps?
How did you find it?

Thanks in advance

[rantenki]

Hello,

I see a lot of people mod the keyboards to suit their needs some even design their own.

Have any of you tried 3D printing of keyboard cases or key caps?
How did you find it?

Thanks in advance

I have 3d printed some keycaps. There are two issues with doing that (with an FDM printer):

• Getting a good 3d model for the key
• the resolution of the printer leaving "stepping" on the layers that is very noticable when typing

Some sanding will help with issue #2, but my lack of spare time is still causing issues with #1

[Findecanor]

* DMW got the case for his Humble Hacker Keyboard 3D-printed at Shapeways.
* bl1978 at Deskthority designed a new case for his Poker and got it CNC-routed from a block of plastic, but I think that he could have 3D-printed it just as well.

I have 3d printed some keycaps.

Wow. There has been a lot of talk about doing it, but I have never heard/read about anyone actually doing it, until now.
Please tell more about it! Which type of switch/stem you do this for?
I thought that the biggest problem making key caps for Cherry MX would be to fit the size of the hole in the stem to the slider. Not too narrow, not too wide. That is not a problem?

[dorkvader]

My brother has access to a 3D printer at his college. He says they will often print and then sandblast.

What I want to see are 3D printers capable of putting out metal or ceramic powders with binder (I know the exist...) then you can just sinter them and be done. The biggest issue about this would be shrinkage, but we have to worrya bout that with PBT anyway, so it can be designed around.

[rantenki]

* DMW got the case for his Humble Hacker Keyboard 3D-printed at Shapeways.
* bl1978 at Deskthority designed a new case for his Poker and got it CNC-routed from a block of plastic, but I think that he could have 3D-printed it just as well.


Wow. There has been a lot of talk about doing it, but I have never heard/read about anyone actually doing it, until now.
Please tell more about it! Which type of switch/stem you do this for?
I thought that the biggest problem making key caps for Cherry MX would be to fit the size of the hole in the stem to the slider. Not too narrow, not too wide. That is not a problem?

My keys were cherry-mx keycaps, roughly modeled on my Kinesis keycaps. My printer is a modified Prusa mendel (see http://reprap.org/wiki/Prusa_Mendel ), with a 0.25mm extrusion orifice. The stems are not a problem at all actually. IIRC the stem cross bars are 1mmx1.25mm wide or so, and the holes aren't so hard to do for that.The surface finish is purely aesthetic, but probably more of an issue for that reason. The other issue was that the shapes of the keys are _very_ different from the stock shape, even though the face and base are the same, the profiles and tilts and radius of the key face are all quite different from stock, and this was way more noticeable than I expected.

Oh, and print material was both PLA and ABS, although I liked the PLA better, and it is harder, so will wear better, although it is less impact resistant.

[dorkvader]

You'll have that. Fracture toughness shares an approximately inverse relationship to hardness. There are some pretty good measurements of the kinesis keys (and suggested WASD equivalents) in the kinesis topic: have you looked there to get all the slopes/angles right?

That's an awesome DIY 3D printer, though. I'm humbled.

Kudos to kps:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?23446-kinesis-advantage-keycap-replacement-limitations/page4

[Findecanor]

What I want to see are 3D printers capable of putting out metal or ceramic powders with binder (I know the exist...) then you can just sinter them and be done. The biggest issue about this would be shrinkage, but we have to worrya bout that with PBT anyway, so it can be designed around.

Shapeways offers several processes/materials, including ceramic and metal, but I don't know enough about them to say if they are the same as what you are referring to.
Their printed metal seems to be sintered, but too porous, so they inject it with some other metal somehow...

My keys were cherry-mx keycaps, roughly modeled on my Kinesis keycaps. My printer is a modified Prusa mendel (see http://reprap.org/wiki/Prusa_Mendel ), with a 0.25mm extrusion orifice.

Nice. Ah, but you need (someone with) a 3D printer to get the parts to build this thing. (Machines building machines, how perverse ...)

Oh, and print material was both PLA and ABS, although I liked the PLA better, and it is harder, so will wear better, although it is less impact resistant.

The plastics industry has several formulations for ABS, some harder, some softer. How do you get plastic into the machine? Would it not be possible to feed it with a formulation that is harder than regular.

[rantenki]

Shapeways offers several processes/materials, including ceramic and metal, but I don't know enough about them to say if they are the same as what you are referring to.
Their printed metal seems to be sintered, but too porous, so they inject it with some other metal somehow...


Nice. Ah, but you need (someone with) a 3D printer to get the parts to build this thing. (Machines building machines, how perverse ...)


The plastics industry has several formulations for ABS, some harder, some softer. How do you get plastic into the machine? Would it not be possible to feed it with a formulation that is harder than regular.

So, the shapeways sintered metal process impregnates the stainless steel with a bronze binder. The steel is porous, so the bronze just wicks in. The sintering process is just strong enough to hold it together for the bronze impregnation, but after the bronze has spread throughout the part, it is _very_ strong, and you don't see the orange colour at all. It is a really cool (well, hot, but you know what I mean) process.

As for getting the parts for the printer, I got mine on ebay for about $500, not including electronics, most of which I already had kicking around.

The ABS/PLA are supplied in spools of 1.75mm diameter filament, and they are pushed through an orifice at a controlled rate to get the extrusion speed to match the motion speed of the head, and to fill at the right rate. Volumes have been written about the correct algorithms and whatnot. There are actually MANY different forumulations of plastic, and my current favorite it black PLA, which is non-toxic, hard, somewhat flexible, compostable, squirrel friendly, etc: http://www.natureworksllc.com/Japan/~/media/Technical_Resources/Technical_Data_Sheets/TechnicalDataSheet_4043D_films_pdf.pdf

Now imma have to print a new set of keycaps with it

[dorkvader]

Wow, the shapeways process sounds a lot like liquid phase sintering (though the bronze might not go liquid, based on their sintering temperature) That means they won't have as much shrinkage, and it'll go a lot faster.

So they print with steel particles, then impregnate the bronze or do they put both in at the same time? or do they introduce liquid bronze during sintering? it all sounds too difficult. I'd just have bronze particles, and have them go liquid phase during one sintering step.

Either way powder metallurgy (or powder ceramics) are pretty awesome.

[Semaj]

I have been trying to find out if anyone has used the makebot 3D printer for printing a keyboard, because I would like to try making a keyboard with hexagonal keys but haven't found any thing.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 36484[/ATTACH]

[rantenki]

Wow, the shapeways process sounds a lot like liquid phase sintering (though the bronze might not go liquid, based on their sintering temperature) That means they won't have as much shrinkage, and it'll go a lot faster.

So they print with steel particles, then impregnate the bronze or do they put both in at the same time? or do they introduce liquid bronze during sintering? it all sounds too difficult. I'd just have bronze particles, and have them go liquid phase during one sintering step.

Either way powder metallurgy (or powder ceramics) are pretty awesome.

They sinter the steel in place then impregnate after. This is awesome because it means the shape is really close to net, with almost no shrinkage, IIRC. The bronze is a post process. To be honest, I am not sure if shapeways is doing selective laser sintering, or using a binder (usually dextrose I think) in a z-corp style printer then sintering in an oven. Either way I believe they do the post-preg with bronze afterwards.

And yeah, powder printing is badass. There are actually a lot of people working on powder 3d printing right now, as the patents expire very soon, so it'll all be open source

[rantenki]

I have been trying to find out if anyone has used the makebot 3D printer for printing a keyboard, because I would like to try making a keyboard with hexagonal keys but haven't found any thing.

(Attachment Link) 36484[/ATTACH]

Is there a particular ergonomic reason for the keys being in that shape?
I just think it would be awesome for playing battletech

[dorkvader]

Symmetric stagger, and aesthetics is reason enough for some

With a custom PCB this should easily be within the realm of possability. You'd put the switches on the 1/2 stagger locations on the PCB, then put custom keycaps on them. I recommend the work that's being done on the phantom or doxkb for guidance.

Thanks for the info, rantenki. I've also watched their video, which was sort-of informative. I wonder if we can get shapeways to NOT glaze their ceramics.... I notice they charge per square cm of surface area on the ceramics, so we could potentially make them THICK (and it'd be cheaper).

'cause everyone knows that ceramic keycaps are the best.
---
I know that I've had success with PAA as a binder for ceramic powders, though almost any organic/polymer can be used (selecting the proper solvent/binder/deflocculant/etc. is a huge part of powder processing)

[Semaj]

There are a few reasons I would like to make a key board with a hexagonal shape, main reason is I would like to be able to make it work similar to the data hand keyboard by lowering the (A,S,D,F) & (J,K,L,;) keys and adding extra switches to the other keys so I could press the side of the keys and so reduce travel for fingers.  

And just because I think it would look cool.