Author Topic: GH60 Keyboard Project  (Read 610081 times)

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Offline whelmingbytes

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1500 on: Wed, 20 February 2013, 19:56:10 »
Does anyone know if the atmega will have any gpio pins leftover? I assume this will be somewhat easy to program for if there are pins, but if anyone has any knowledge on this it would be great to hear. Thanks

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1501 on: Wed, 20 February 2013, 21:21:07 »
I don't think so, but komar can tell you for sure. :)
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Offline mkawa

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1502 on: Wed, 20 February 2013, 21:24:47 »
my understanding is that to free up the rest of the gpio pins you need to rewrite the bootloader, but there are physically pins left. komar can pop in and clarify

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Offline mkawa

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1503 on: Wed, 20 February 2013, 21:27:08 »
putting out a quick call: can everyone who has a beta PCB who _hasn't_ done anything with it yet check in and let everyone know what their plans are?

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Offline The_Beast

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1504 on: Wed, 20 February 2013, 21:30:27 »
If someone would lend me a PCB, that'd be great
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Offline WhiteFireDragon

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1505 on: Thu, 21 February 2013, 00:56:47 »
Seems like almost all of the "beta testers" were really in it as a shortcut to getting GH60 first.

Offline sordna

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1506 on: Thu, 21 February 2013, 01:31:51 »
Seems like almost all of the "beta testers" were really in it as a shortcut to getting GH60 first.

Well, perhaps you didn't really make the necessary disclaimers when selling the prototypes. I almost bought a PCB you offered recently and when I asked you "what are my responsibilities?", you made a joke but didn't answer my question. And I made a serious question because I had beta-testing in mind and was thinking that there could even be a deadline I should have the board at least assembled.
Had I bought the PCB, based on your response honestly I would think it's perfectly fine to just hold on to it and not really do any testing :-)
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Offline Trueno86

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1507 on: Thu, 21 February 2013, 01:36:55 »
Are there spare PCB's available?  Really interested in hacking at the firmware; so many mods that I have for OSX using KeyRemap4MacBook that'd be awesome in hardware.

Offline komar007

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1508 on: Thu, 21 February 2013, 02:24:08 »
Does anyone know if the atmega will have any gpio pins leftover? I assume this will be somewhat easy to program for if there are pins, but if anyone has any knowledge on this it would be great to hear. Thanks
Currently, there are 4 pins free, all of which are used by JTAG by default. In order to make them usable, one has to connect an SPI programmer to those 6 pins I broke out under the GH60 logo and change the fuse bits settings.

We can either consider this an option for hackers and have them change the fuse bits themselves or the distributors reprogram them before sending to people.
There have been ideas of putting GH60 and GHPad into a single case, so maybe these pins could be used to connect the two boards instead of having 2 USB cables or a USB hub inside.
What other useful functions can you think of for the 4 pins?

Are there spare PCB's available?  Really interested in hacking at the firmware; so many mods that I have for OSX using KeyRemap4MacBook that'd be awesome in hardware.
Sorry, I don't have any left to sell. The GB is starting really soon now.
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Offline hasu

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1509 on: Thu, 21 February 2013, 05:41:08 »
You don't necessarily need to unprogram JTAGEN fuse bit with ISP programmer.
You can disable JTAG function with asserting JTD bit of MCUCR by firmware.

I use this JTD bit trick to use PF4-7 as GPIO in Teensy. I think this trick also works well on GH60.
« Last Edit: Thu, 21 February 2013, 05:42:46 by hasu »

Offline whelmingbytes

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1510 on: Thu, 21 February 2013, 07:49:00 »
Does anyone know if the atmega will have any gpio pins leftover? I assume this will be somewhat easy to program for if there are pins, but if anyone has any knowledge on this it would be great to hear. Thanks
Currently, there are 4 pins free, all of which are used by JTAG by default. In order to make them usable, one has to connect an SPI programmer to those 6 pins I broke out under the GH60 logo and change the fuse bits settings.

We can either consider this an option for hackers and have them change the fuse bits themselves or the distributors reprogram them before sending to people.
There have been ideas of putting GH60 and GHPad into a single case, so maybe these pins could be used to connect the two boards instead of having 2 USB cables or a USB hub inside.
What other useful functions can you think of for the 4 pins?


  • Led backlight control with digital dimming with either additional switches or better yet, based on ambient lighting
  • LCD display the current wpm or other neat stats
  • Thumb print scanner??
  • RFID scanner to switch fn mappings??
  • Raw serial communication to another device (maybe for sending logs of wpm or stats to a storage device, for good of course, not evil)

I literally have no clue if the current onboard controller is powerful enough to run the keyboard and any of these things, but they are just ideas that I would want to try if it were remotely possible.

Offline iMav

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1511 on: Thu, 21 February 2013, 08:15:19 »

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1512 on: Thu, 21 February 2013, 08:26:48 »
Led backlight control with digital dimming with either additional switches or better yet, based on ambient lighting

PCB has no traces, solder pads, or even holes drilled for in-switch LEDs, except for at the Caps Lock position.
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Offline whelmingbytes

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1513 on: Thu, 21 February 2013, 08:47:16 »
Led backlight control with digital dimming with either additional switches or better yet, based on ambient lighting

PCB has no traces, solder pads, or even holes drilled for in-switch LEDs, except for at the Caps Lock position.

Yea, I knew that, I want the extra gpio pins to control an external led backlight. Was thinking of just wiring into the 5v from the usb and have the gpio control another circuit.

Offline komar007

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1514 on: Thu, 21 February 2013, 08:58:47 »
You don't necessarily need to unprogram JTAGEN fuse bit with ISP programmer.
You can disable JTAG function with asserting JTD bit of MCUCR by firmware.

I use this JTD bit trick to use PF4-7 as GPIO in Teensy. I think this trick also works well on GH60.

Really? I had no idea this is possible.
If so, that's even better. I'll break out those pins in the final version of the PCB.
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Offline mkawa

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1515 on: Thu, 21 February 2013, 09:40:42 »
You don't necessarily need to unprogram JTAGEN fuse bit with ISP programmer.
You can disable JTAG function with asserting JTD bit of MCUCR by firmware.

I use this JTD bit trick to use PF4-7 as GPIO in Teensy. I think this trick also works well on GH60.
sweet! thanks for the tip hasu :D

komar: there are what look like a bunch of test pads wired into the switch matrix on the bottom center of the board. maybe you could route those to the extra gpios on the avr for hardware hacker types? (and a couple of marked pads for V+ and usb gnd?)
« Last Edit: Thu, 21 February 2013, 09:42:18 by mkawa »

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Offline komar007

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1516 on: Thu, 21 February 2013, 09:46:28 »
komar: there are what look like a bunch of test pads wired into the switch matrix on the bottom center of the board. maybe you could route those to the extra gpios on the avr for hardware hacker types? (and a couple of marked pads for V+ and usb gnd?)

Those pads are SPI, VCC and GND. Marking at least VCC and GND in the silkscreen is a good idea though.
I'll add another set of pads for the 4 unused pins somewhere.
GH60 rev. B w/ ali's case|Cherry G80-3000 HFU/05|IBM Model M (51G8572)
Check out the GH60 project! | How to make a keyboard

Offline rknize

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1517 on: Thu, 21 February 2013, 10:35:20 »
komar: there are what look like a bunch of test pads wired into the switch matrix on the bottom center of the board. maybe you could route those to the extra gpios on the avr for hardware hacker types? (and a couple of marked pads for V+ and usb gnd?)

Those pads are SPI, VCC and GND. Marking at least VCC and GND in the silkscreen is a good idea though.
I'll add another set of pads for the 4 unused pins somewhere.

Yes, I was going to suggest this.  Please pull out all of the unused pins so that folks can easily solder wire wrap wire or whatever to them and add their own gizmos.  They can even just be surface test points, though through-hole pads would make for a more secure connection.
Russ

Offline mkawa

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1518 on: Thu, 21 February 2013, 10:38:54 »
through-holes are quite nice as they allow for socketing daughterboards :D

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Offline sordna

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1519 on: Thu, 21 February 2013, 11:45:21 »
Any room on the PCB / pns to mount a buzzer for clicky sounds ?  I'm addicted to this feature from the Kinesis Advantage... makes cherry reds "tactile" :-)
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Offline mkawa

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1520 on: Thu, 21 February 2013, 11:48:39 »
this is exactly the kind of thing the hackerpads would be for :D

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Offline The_Beast

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1521 on: Thu, 21 February 2013, 13:28:51 »
Will the number pad support a split + key?

Like this but without the split 0:
http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_images/topre_realforce_23ub_small.jpg
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Offline komar007

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1522 on: Thu, 21 February 2013, 13:30:35 »
GH60 rev. B w/ ali's case|Cherry G80-3000 HFU/05|IBM Model M (51G8572)
Check out the GH60 project! | How to make a keyboard

Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1523 on: Thu, 21 February 2013, 14:57:24 »
I have still yet to assemble mine, because there was delay from miscommunication with what needed to be assembled smd wise for me. But I should have it soon and my plans are to test my ideal layout with it of course:


sorry for the awful mock up, I made it with mspaint while I was at work one day.
Black is default layer, red is layer 2 and blue is layer 3 embedded numpad activated by fn+n on layer 2 hopefully I can manage to figure it out to work that way.
« Last Edit: Thu, 21 February 2013, 15:00:03 by IvanIvanovich »

Offline gnubag

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1524 on: Thu, 21 February 2013, 15:59:51 »
so will the final GB revision of the board have 90/270 degree rotated switches because of the manufacturing?
or is it ok for them to make it slightly more fragile?

Offline Trueno86

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1525 on: Thu, 21 February 2013, 18:23:27 »
Are there spare PCB's available?  Really interested in hacking at the firmware; so many mods that I have for OSX using KeyRemap4MacBook that'd be awesome in hardware.
Sorry, I don't have any left to sell. The GB is starting really soon now.

Awesome, can't wait!  Gonna get one for sure.

I have still yet to assemble mine, because there was delay from miscommunication with what needed to be assembled smd wise for me. But I should have it soon and my plans are to test my ideal layout with it of course:
Show Image


sorry for the awful mock up, I made it with mspaint while I was at work one day.
Black is default layer, red is layer 2 and blue is layer 3 embedded numpad activated by fn+n on layer 2 hopefully I can manage to figure it out to work that way.

This should be possible through firmware.  I noticed that you had ~ on Escape in the second layer.  Actually one of the things I've done in software on OSX is to map ESC to escape, and Shift-ESC to ~, because thats when I type tilde.  So you don't even have to go into the second layer to get that key.  I've also mapped Ctrl-ESC to `, so that I can get that character too if needed.

Another thing I've setup is that the right hand shift/win/menu/control arrow key cluster are always arrows, UNLESS you hit an another key within a 800ms, or KEY_UP before then.  For example, tapping or holding RSHIFT will always be up arrow, unless I hit / in which case it just sends ?.  Basically, I have arrow keys all the time, and they are modifiers when I need them.  This is why I'm so excited about a programmable board.  Come on, GB already :-)
 

Offline codymaust

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1526 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 06:29:31 »
Setting money aside now so I don't miss the boat

Can't wait!

Offline Loligagger

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1527 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 13:06:36 »
We can either consider this an option for hackers and have them change the fuse bits themselves or the distributors reprogram them before sending to people.
There have been ideas of putting GH60 and GHPad into a single case, so maybe these pins could be used to connect the two boards instead of having 2 USB cables or a USB hub inside.
What other useful functions can you think of for the 4 pins?

This sounds pretty ideal to me, please make it happen.

Offline mkawa

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1528 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 15:28:42 »
komar: can you space the pins to fit a reasonable looking molexjr minifit or similar socket? if you can't find one small enough, no worries

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Offline WhiteFireDragon

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1529 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 02:06:11 »
lol you guys want so many changes, after all the prototypes have been made. With all these new ideas, if they're all implemented then that might warrant another round of prototype, which will delay the GB even more :/

Offline mkawa

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1530 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 02:42:48 »
buck up, man! prototyping is the fun part :D

making a huge run of boards and then realizing that you've gotten something a bit wrong is NOT FUN AT ALL

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Offline Luke

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1531 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 03:10:17 »
lol you guys want so many changes, after all the prototypes have been made. With all these new ideas, if they're all implemented then that might warrant another round of prototype, which will delay the GB even more :/

lol, seriously I need this board in my life, please nobody delay the GB :'(

Offline WhiteFireDragon

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1532 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 03:44:08 »
Ok it took me a lot of time to draw these up, so here are the 9 possible plates so far. It's possible to have hybrids of any of these, but I don't imagine those would be as popular. The PCB currently does not support split backspace, but if komar confirms with me he's added 2 more switch locations for the backspace, then I'll adjust the plates accordingly or add on more. Only poker and pure layout will need 1 more additional hole for the capslock LED.


ANSI 125 (standard poker layout)



ANSI 125 - Pure (standard PURE layout)



ANSI 150



ANSI 150 - Pure



ISO 125



ISO 125 - Pure



ISO 150



lysol's layout



samwisekoi's layout

Offline vorn

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1533 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 04:31:42 »
Nice!!  :D :D :D
ISO 125 Pure is looking all kinds of perfect!!

Offline multipla

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1534 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 05:47:02 »
Hmm, will no plate support a 1u key to the left of a 1.75u right shift?
Is it possible to modify for example the ISO 125 Pure plate to support both, the 1u key to the right or to the left of a 1.75 right shift?
Maybe instead of the two 1u holes, expanding them each to the left, like the caps lock hole could work? I'm nowhere near being an expert at this like you are, wfd, just throwing in ideas :D But like that it would perhaps be possible to support both layouts?
Or maybe even a very big hole, beginning right behind the ?/ key, and ending at the right edge of the plate?
The other ones look nice, though!
« Last Edit: Sat, 23 February 2013, 06:09:25 by multipla »

Offline WhiteFireDragon

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1535 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 06:36:54 »
That 1x key left (instead of right like pure) of the small 1.75x shift actually is possible, I just haven't made a plate for it yet. If I make all plate possibilities, including hybrid plates, that's just too many options. I can still add in a plate with what you requested, but not sure how many people are interested in it. The reason being for that layout is that majority of people will not have long enough R-pinky to stretch that far. You must have long pinkies haha.

I've already considered the solution you proposed, but making it long like that capslock will come at a compromise. All 4 switch holes in the PCB at that area have 90degree rotated switches there, so if there is a stretched hole on the plate, one of the plastic locking clips on each of the switch won't be able to clamp down the switch securely onto the plate. That's not a problem on the capslock because the capslock is not a rotated switch, so both top and bottom plastic clip can lock onto the plate. It's possible, but just won't be a fully supported switch by the plate. It won't be that big of deal if you use PCB-mounted switches, so I might add this back on there.

Hopefully that makes sense.

Offline ApocalypseMaow

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1536 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 07:18:42 »
WhiteDragon!!! Those iso layouts are awesome! Maybe I should add some iso kits to GB.
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Offline multipla

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1537 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 08:56:05 »
Okay, I understand. And yes, I use PCB mounted switches, so that really shouldn't be a big deal, if there's enough interest in plates like this.
If there would not be enough interest, I could also buy a normal ISO 125 Pure plate and cut the piece between those two holes out, and also cut a bit to the left, couldn't I? Those two switches then would not be plate mounted then, but if I use PCB mounted switches even that shouldn't be a problem I think. Well, we'll see what will happen.
Thanks for doing the plates!

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1538 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 08:59:35 »
I can't speak for The_Beast, but I think he was planning on doing a "mixed bag" run of plates at the same time the GH60 GB is going on. He will probably allow a one-off plate for anyone that wants it, but at a slightly higher price, since it won't be made in any volume. He just needs a drawing file to give to his laser guy.
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Offline multipla

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1539 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 09:30:15 »
That sounds nice, we'll have to see how this develops.
Hopefully this starts soon

Offline WhiteFireDragon

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1540 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 13:05:11 »
multipla, I didn't post this plate at first but here is a "universal" ANSI plate that supports what you wanted. ISO can be done in the same way. This  plate allows you to change the whole keyboard layout by desoldering/soldering of only a few switches, rather than desoldering everything and swapping plates.


Requirements for this plate
  • Backspace, R-shift, and 7x spacebar must use PCB-mounted cherry stabilizers, no other option. All other stabilizers (Enter, L-shift, and 6.25x spacebar) still has the option of using all 3 stabilizer types (costar, PCB-mounted and plate-mounted cherry)
  • You must understand layout and spacing well enough to mount the switches during soldering since the whole bottom row and a few other keys don't provide 100% specificity in switch locations.


Offline gnubag

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1541 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 14:29:27 »
Let's clarify a few things.
Yes, there is enough space to put all the switches without rotations.
However, this breaks two things. One is PCB pins. Not rotating switches 90 degrees causes the reduction from 2 pins to 1, since the other one falls into the hole of the switch nearby. This is probably a minor problem, and I have a good workaround - a wire keeping the switch in place instead of the regular switch diode, so those who use no plate can make sure the switches sit firmly.
The other thing is the soldering pads, which overlap with the switch holes. You can see how this looks in the current rev. A board (caps-lock). This makes the connection much more fragile and some PCB fabs will refuse to drill holes which overlap, which shouldn't be a problem for me, since there were no problems making rev. A with one such case.

So, to sum up, we have a problem with mounting pins, which is a minor one, and with overlapping pads, which is a major one. The first has a workaround, so it's not actually a problem, the second one just requires a compromise.

I'm rotating the switches now, and I'll probably make as many not rotated 90 degrees as possible.

is there a update?

Offline komar007

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1542 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 15:22:47 »
I've just come back from holidays.
I'll try to do it quickly.
GH60 rev. B w/ ali's case|Cherry G80-3000 HFU/05|IBM Model M (51G8572)
Check out the GH60 project! | How to make a keyboard

Offline gnubag

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1543 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 15:27:40 »
I've just come back from holidays.
I'll try to do it quickly.
haha hope you had a good time.

i am jsut worried about my keycaps....

Offline komar007

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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1544 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 15:46:22 »
haha hope you had a good time.

i am jsut worried about my keycaps....

I did, thanks.
Mine are in pain too, so I'll try my best;)
GH60 rev. B w/ ali's case|Cherry G80-3000 HFU/05|IBM Model M (51G8572)
Check out the GH60 project! | How to make a keyboard

Offline multipla

  • Posts: 28
  • Location: Germany
Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1545 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 18:25:59 »
Wow wfd, that plate looks cool. Want!
And it really looks a bit complicated, but it even would support the split backspace if the PCB will support it, perfect.
I'm looking forward to buying one of these in ISO Layout.

Offline rknize

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  • Posts: 1731
  • Location: Chicago
    • metaruss
Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1546 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 18:40:52 »
That's a really versatile plate design!  I would recommend using PCB mount switches in any of those siamese holes to make sure the switch is square to the rest.
Russ

Offline Index

  • Posts: 158
Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1547 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 21:55:56 »
so is the hhkb layout out the window?
Gaming Keyboard: Leopold FC200RT/ABN
Work Keyboard: HHKB Pro 2 PD-KB400B

Offline IvanIvanovich

  • Mr. Silk Underwear
  • Posts: 8199
  • Location: USA
Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1548 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 22:11:31 »
I have finished building mine and am typing this post with it. It's good to go, for the most part. Now to just wrap my head around getting it programmed how I want it...

Offline WhiteFireDragon

  • Posts: 2276
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Re: [Final Prototyping] GH60 Keyboard
« Reply #1549 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 23:01:48 »
so is the hhkb layout out the window?

HHKB layout is case dependent, not PCB or plate. Although it's probably a good match if you go with ANSI with 1.5x modifiers.