Author Topic: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)  (Read 26076 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline iamtootallforthis

  • Something a lot Funnier
  • * Global Moderator
  • Posts: 4739
  • Location: West Palm Beach, FL
  • I like green stuffs.
    • WTB/WTTF Thread
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #100 on: Mon, 22 February 2016, 00:13:24 »
Just a thought what if the "future" collector editions came with a dibs ticket as one of the items, like you have done before (but for a single keycap only). Low cost and people would probably be stoked. Good for a single keycap of their choosing from a future sale. I know that not having to deal with the stress of not getting any caps at all and sitting by the computer all day and night, would make it worth it to me. Then people could just see what the next sale has and if nothing interested them, save it for the next sale.  Unless tracking and verifying a large amount of dib tickets would be a pain in the ass for you.....


CE Pack #1:

Keycap
Dibs ticket (good for one guaranteed future BRO)
Themed Keycap Puller
Themed keychain switch


CE Pack #2:

Keycap
Themed Wrist Rest
Themed Keyboard Sleeve
Sticker


CE Pack #3:

Keycap
Mini-Comic Book
Pin / Badge
3" Figure

I don't think this is all that great of an idea.

It guarantees two caps to someone who was lucky enough to get one already.

Dibs tickets in my opinion should not be given out so readily.

I thought it would be best on "future" sales only, not the one that it was purchased on. One guaranteed future keycap is not that much, when some people are lucky enough to get multiples anyways.....

I understand what you meant but what I'm saying is you win in"this sale" and get a dibs ticket and then are guaranteed another in the next sale.

I just foresee it being more trouble than anything.

I still stand by the fact that dibs tickets should be given out sparingly and with great discretion.

I would also prefer that the CE came with things that only related to the cap being sold.

There is also the chance someone goes and tries to sell a dibs ticket. That's just a whole new cluster**** waiting to happen.
« Last Edit: Mon, 22 February 2016, 00:21:46 by iamtootallforthis »

Offline asdfjkl36

  • blue shirt guy
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1764
  • Location: SoCal*
  • --- Click Clacks and Cats --- -- Cyan > Purple --
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #101 on: Mon, 22 February 2016, 01:29:35 »
All the options seem pretty cool.
They seem to each have their pros and cons
Ex:
-Mouse pads get dirty with use, so I'd probably just keep it in a drawer (no fun)
-sleeves have different sizes that must be made

But overall I think anything has the possibility of being a great option for the pack.

But I'm all for shirts. I enjoy wearing my GH shirts and other keyboard related goodies. Maybe just have simple designs like the bro fist with the main color scheme of that sale and maybe the sale's name? Patches with the same thing / stickers


Offline OTD

  • Posts: 104
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #102 on: Mon, 22 February 2016, 01:39:36 »
Are the mouse pads going to be side stitched so we can always throw it in the washer without worrying that it will fall apart?

Offline bocahgundul

  • a seal
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1842
  • Location: sell me your 5k ples
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #103 on: Mon, 22 February 2016, 01:44:25 »
I really liked the pack 2 idea

Offline Lokomotivet

  • Posts: 174
  • (⌐■_■)
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #104 on: Mon, 22 February 2016, 02:29:38 »
I personally have no more wall space for posters and I already have way too many t-shirts. :(

The current mock-ups in the OP looks promising! CE pack #3 is my favorite.
I'm a huge fan of pins and badges and would LOVE to have a reaper squadron embroidered badge (just like the sticker) on my jacket!

A small vinyl figure would also be pretty cool but that could be a lot of work. One thing that could make it even better and perhaps easier to make would be if the figure is faceless/has no head. Instead there's a switch stem so you can insert the cap in place as the head/face of the figure.
| ISO |

Offline Jokrik

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 3031
  • Location: Death Star
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #105 on: Mon, 22 February 2016, 02:36:21 »
PIN
definitely PIN :)

I like #3, since for things like mousepads and stuff we all have different preferences and if it ended up in someone not liking it will be a waste
something that can be displayed would be great, so that it can remind us about you Bros and ctrl alt team, forever and ever and ever

aww....
Quote
Women always figure out the truth. Always. - Han Solo

Offline GenKaan

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 289
  • Location: The Matrix
  • Mer caps, mindre käbbel
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #106 on: Mon, 22 February 2016, 03:07:20 »
I think the bundle is a nice way of keeping out some of the people trying to flip them for a profit, as well as (hopefully) making them a little more profitable for you. I like the idea but t-shirts are hard. Unless the person is a hardcore fan, odds are its not going to work for them with their current wardrobe

Some of the things that would make me interested in paying +$150 for a themed artisan bundle:

Must:
Memorable name (Good: TR8-0R SAL3 / Cosmos Sale / Winter Is Coming / Blackout and Bad: Easter Sale / Sorry you missed out, bro / Toxic)
Stickers (themed around the cap)
A personal message centered around the creative process that went into making the cap, color choices, timing, and who the cap is for (generally, not the individual)
A different stamp (or design that wont make it to regular raffles) than the rest of the caps, making them even more limited and easy to spot
Custom/non standard zipper bags!

and.... GLITTER!

Very interesting:
Keychain switch with LED like this one I picked up from ctrlalt.io

Keyboard sleeve
Wooden wrist rest with the name of the sale engraved in the bottom right corner (could break budget)
A simple blank FN (for Topre) or Esc (for Mx) using the same colors as the actual cap. Maybe only with a stamp
Mini-comic book (could replace the personal message)

Would like / fun things:
Fridge magnet
Keypuller
Phone case
Pin

The dream:
1.25 unit transparent color matching modifier, please make this happen for the love of göd!
|| @Home:: Shine 3 TKL (Mx Red / Deep Space)  || @Work:: G2Pro (Mx Clear / Dye Sub PBT) ||
@Reserve:: HHKB (Topre 45g / Mixed PBT) // Das v3 (Mx Brown / Blank PBT)

Offline zennasyndroxx

  • Posts: 646
  • It's good to be back!
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #107 on: Mon, 22 February 2016, 03:14:47 »
the ultimate CE addon would be a book with pictures of your previous works, bbv1s, v2s, reapers and others. one page per cap.


Offline Malenky

  • Posts: 271
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #109 on: Mon, 22 February 2016, 03:48:48 »
Collectors edition should be all about the experience. You want to generate those "unboxing" videos, where presentation of the product is considered throughout.

I know it's a long way off, but I feel like this is getting close to being mainstream viable. Have any considerations been made as to contacting mainstream "gaming" peripheral makers, such as Razer? I feel like the whole story and theme is right up their street, and I know from experience that young gamers would go crazy over something like this.

If the above were to happen, I think a custom USB cable would be a good replacement for a tshirt, as kids grow out of tshirts and generally wreck them!

P.S. The current CE suits me and I feel like the price tag is very fair.

Offline mobbo

  • u fk
  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Posts: 1135
  • Location: Canada
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #110 on: Mon, 22 February 2016, 07:55:29 »
I finally have some time to make a comment. I do want to start by saying I opted to skip out on this sale - not because of price or content, but simply because the Reaper V2 and that colorway is not my cup of tea, and I've stopped entering sales just for the sake of entering them. Especially something like a CE, I wouldn't feel right if it wasn't something I was really interested in keeping.

I don't think the contents or picking the perfect combinations of items to make the "perfect" collector's edition for everyone is of priority here. Everyone is going to want something slightly different, so you could be tweaking this package forever (although I think changing up contents on future CE releases is a great idea). You could tweak it and release a sleeve, or keychain or whatever, but let's be honest - people will still be making the same kinds of comments, wishing there was something else.

Personally, I would have liked to have just seen the package reduction from $125 to $100. I thought this was a much more reasonable price point for the package, while keeping everything together thematically. I realllyy didn't like seeing the cap go up for purchase on it's own. To me that defeats the purpose of a Collector's Edition. Why would I buy a collector's edition of anything when I can buy it's most desirable component at retail?

Depending on how you want to launch CE's in the future, there could be some interesting possibilities. For one, I think you need to make them extremely limited and make sure they know how limited (i.e. 100 specified units with numbering on the product).  In my mind, the purpose of Collector's Edition package isn't to appeal to the masses and make it widely available. It should be an easy decision for die-hard fans and it should have COLLECTORS value (contain things that would be valuable to those Brocaps collectors out there). Unfortunately, it is hard to achieve this perceived value with brand new products (which is why a lot of collector's edition video games include classic components to invoke that sense of nostalgia). Something that I would be interested in at that price point: a CE including all past and present versions of a design (i.e. Reaper v1, v2, classic), in a matching colorway. Heck I know lots of people would be fine paying $125 for this package, even without additional merchandise. I know this touches on the issue of revisiting old designs, but for the purpose of collector's editions, I think it may be warranted. It all depends on how often you want to release these CE's, in what quantity, whether you want to do a themed release again, and whether CE's are exclusively for new designs.

So much work went into this release, and I thought it strange that all the people saying "not for me, but I'd love the cap on it's own though" actually got their way. I should clarify that I'm not salty people are getting what they want - I'm salty that Bro put in countless hours of conceptual and manual work to give us a unique launch with back story, and that the resounding reactions (even the positive ones) were "it costs too much" (by the way...if you think the price even remotely covers the amount of work put into something like this...think again) or "cool, but I just want the cap" (imo that's not the point of this CE!!).

I appreciate you taking all of our input into consideration, but don't let our entitlement change what YOU want to do. I was fanboying pretty hard over the poster art to my roomates when looking at the sale and I would be personally bummed if this piece of art was replaced by say - a keychain. It should go without saying that I love the idea of a themed release, whether it be for future CE sales, or regular raffles.

In the end only you and the guys behind the scenes know what it really takes and what is really feasible. Thanks for all your hard work, and I look forward to future CE releases (if that is the plan).
« Last Edit: Mon, 22 February 2016, 08:17:50 by mobbo »
Quote from: Binge
crumping is like twerking but it's all about getting low with force.

Offline DAVYtm

  • #dateless
  • Posts: 289
  • Location: NY
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #111 on: Mon, 22 February 2016, 08:44:51 »
***UPDATE***


Possible Future CE combinations


CE Pack #1:

Keycap
Mouse Pad
Themed Keycap Puller
Themed keychain switch


CE Pack #2:

Keycap
Themed Wrist Rest
Themed Keyboard Sleeve
Sticker


CE Pack #3:

Keycap
Mini-Comic Book
Pin / Badge
3" Figure

I really like all of these packs honestly. Probably #3 the most because a 3" figure would look awesome on my desk. I really do love the poster included in the current CE, I just don't really have a place to hang it at the moment. I think these three packs would be popular, especially if different CEs use different options from these packs.

Offline ripwallet

  • Posts: 68
  • Location: Texas
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #112 on: Mon, 22 February 2016, 09:04:42 »
I'm a fan of the #2 CE package, i would definitely use the products offered in the 2nd package. I admire you getting into creative writting and combing your current interests, and i'm also a big fan of the cap, just the price range is a bit out of reach for me.

I would get a lot of use out of the CE proposed future package #1 and #2. Looking forward to future packages


Offline LXXXIX

  • Posts: 617
  • Location: Florida
  • Just remember all caps when you spell the man name
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #113 on: Mon, 22 February 2016, 09:34:11 »
Personally I like a combination of what you have in mind. I'd like the pack to include;

Keycap
Sticker
Themed Keyboard Sleeve
Themed Keycap Puller

Although, #3 would be an absolute dream, but I feel you would need to charge a lot more for something of this caliber. I wouldn't mind paying for something extra special, but it might put off a lot of people. These are your creations, what and how you deliver them if up to you. I got yo back dawg. :cool:

I always like to be surprised. :thumb:

Edit: A lot of what people are suggesting are some fairly larger/time consuming items. Be aware that the more "big-ticket" items you add it SHOULD warrant a higher cost. Bro Caps is on his own. A $100 box set that was manufactured in a warehouse across the seas isn't the same as someone putting their own time and effort into each item by hand. I'm not saying these ideas are bad, but so many people complained about the cost when they seen the price-tag for the Nightstalker collector's edition.
« Last Edit: Mon, 22 February 2016, 09:40:40 by LXXXIX »

Offline NeonBacon

  • Posts: 26
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #114 on: Mon, 22 February 2016, 10:29:04 »
I can't decide which I like more! I love the idea of a keyboard sleeve from #2 and #3's figure would also sell it to me, maybe you could go through them as you develop and progress your story so each CE is varied?

Miami JD40
The scarecrows are always watching. Always.

Offline Frizer

  • Posts: 62
  • Location: London, UK.
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #115 on: Mon, 22 February 2016, 10:55:33 »
I actually thought the CE as launched was a cool idea (after the price adjustment) but this design is not something I am into style wise. If it had been a V2 and some kind of Mecha design sticker and T-Shirt I would have entered the raffle.

That said I like your CE #2 idea.

Offline deduction

  • Posts: 71
  • Location: Seattle
  • unix layout zealot
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #116 on: Mon, 22 February 2016, 11:36:33 »
I would love to see a package that includes the 'marquee' items from each pack, something like:

Key Cap
Keyboard Sleeve
Figurine
Wrist Wrest/Mouse Pad

Also I would really love to see you begin edition numbering for collector's edition items.  This is a really common concept among various 'collector' art scenes.  I think having known finite production run, and where the collector's items came in that run, really adds to the exclusivity and the allure of owning a definitive piece of your creative effort.

Offline Vadurr

  • Posts: 737
  • Location: CA
  • Valar Morghulis
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #117 on: Mon, 22 February 2016, 16:44:50 »
CE #2 seems perfect!  :thumb:

Offline Telephasic

  • Posts: 58
  • Location: Pennsylvania
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #118 on: Mon, 22 February 2016, 19:30:06 »
I think the packaging could make things a little more interesting and collectible. A handcrafted box or envelope or something would be cool.  Some wicked rubber stamps would be so much fun.

Offline MrRooks

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 209
  • Location: The burbs
  • Always be knolling
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #119 on: Mon, 22 February 2016, 19:53:00 »
I find #2 the most attractive mostly for the sleeve, I like that idea.

*edit* 1 is pretty nice as well thinking about it more.
« Last Edit: Tue, 23 February 2016, 20:10:55 by MrRooks »

Offline piemancoder

  • Posts: 275
  • Location: The Tardis
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #120 on: Mon, 22 February 2016, 20:46:23 »
I would pick a combination of all of them. For example:

Keycap
Keychain switch
3" Figure
Mini comic
Sticker
Yoda grammar best has

Offline gain

  • Posts: 90
  • Location: Australia, VIC
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #121 on: Mon, 22 February 2016, 21:03:52 »
You could ditch the figure and I'd still ride #3 pretty hard to be honest, love me a neat comic.

Offline theteam

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 251
  • Location: California
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #122 on: Tue, 23 February 2016, 00:12:22 »
i'm down for option 2>3>1 in that order

Offline Dongulator

  • Posts: 373
  • Location: A Farm in Minnesota
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #123 on: Tue, 23 February 2016, 00:41:59 »
I think there should be something different in the each sale. Some should have a comic, some should not. Most should have a pin/badge and sticker. For the special ones do the case and wrist rest etc...
It might get stale if I'm always expecting the CE's to have the same general things.

However, it might make things a little more difficult on Bro and his fam trying to switch things up.

Offline crbr

  • Posts: 22
  • Location: Texas
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #124 on: Tue, 23 February 2016, 10:53:04 »
#3 looks most appealing.  Each of the other three categories have something I am too particular about (ie mouse pads) to use, but I feel like I would get more use/fun out of #3.   :thumb:

Offline 64rky

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1168
  • Location: Orange
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #125 on: Tue, 23 February 2016, 19:30:40 »
I would have totally gone,  and would go for #1

:)

Offline DarthBories

  • Posts: 5
  • Location: Brooklyn, NY
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #126 on: Tue, 23 February 2016, 20:00:29 »
I like #1 the most.  I think most if not all the items should relate directly to keyboards.

Offline keshley

  • Posts: 417
  • Location: Ohio
    • Blog n stuff
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #127 on: Thu, 25 February 2016, 08:19:32 »
In regards to the current CE bundle: I think the pricing is pretty reasonable. Good printed t-shirts cost anywhere from $20-35, and that's for items that are probably a bigger run than Bro is doing here. Nobody scoffs at paying $40-70+ for a Mondo poster, which are limited run, but still certainly a much bigger run than the Reaper Squadron poster. Plus stickers.

For future CE runs: I like the idea behind the mix and match options. That brings a level of personalization to the Collector's Editions that I think can provide even more enjoyment.
  
HHKB Pro 2       Pok3r

Offline Bromono

  • Wanabe Cicerone
  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 1115
  • Location: The Alamo's Basement
  • HHKB > Your Opinion
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #128 on: Thu, 25 February 2016, 08:41:06 »
I really like keycap puller and sleeve ideas

Offline Ryukuxyz

  • Posts: 47
  • Location: Los Angeles Area
  • VE.A!!!
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #129 on: Fri, 26 February 2016, 10:08:25 »
Package #2 looks the best for me, personally, but package #1 is pretty sweet as well. You would definitely have to make sure to allow entrants to clarify which size wrist rest/keyboard sleeve they want, to prevent someone using a 60% from getting a TKL sleeve.  :D Also. it would be cool to choose the switch option that the keychain uses. I'm sure you guys have thought of all this already, but just clarifying. :P

Offline alienman82

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 4051
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #130 on: Tue, 01 March 2016, 23:04:30 »
a themed wrist wrest sounds pretty awesome!

Offline 3K

  • Posts: 279
  • Location: Germany
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #131 on: Thu, 03 March 2016, 06:55:13 »
Another item I would like to see in packages are bags! I admit, the chances are low, that someone will recognize for example the [CTRL]ALT logo on the streets, but still. It would be some kind of hide-your-power-level type of advertisement.

I'm talking about shopping bags, or gym bags. A simple pink with the updside down black cross, or the [CTRL]ALT logo, or a stylized reaper face.

                   Model M '88    | Model M SSK '87 | HHKB P2  | Zowie FK1

Offline UsualSuspectXXX

  • Posts: 3461
  • Location: Persephone
  • (⌐■_■)⊃━☆゚.*・。゚
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #132 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 07:19:22 »
I love the idea of the themed keychain switch. Most of everything else would be lost on me since I probably wouldn't use any/much of it. Tshirt, mouse pad, etc.

Offline Hispes

  • Posts: 124
  • ISYMFS
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #133 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 08:52:39 »
I really think mobbo nailed it.

1. You do you (you can't please everyone all of the time)
2. CE cap should only be available as part of the CE package
3. Switching up CE package contents from release to release will encourage different people to purchase them
4. $100-$125 is a great price point for all the extras and exclusivity
5. If all else fails, go back to 1 :thumb:

Offline Waateva

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 1782
  • Location: Michigan, USA
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #134 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 10:37:33 »
I would definitely be the most interested in idea #1 followed by #, but a mix-n-match idea would be really cool too!
Duck Blackbird - Gaterstotles /// O'Mira - V Blacks /// LZ GH v2 - V Clears /// Leopold FC980C /// TGR Jane CE v2 (unbuilt) /// Lin Dolphin 2021 (unbuilt)

Offline Liocer

  • Posts: 122
  • Location: London, UK
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #135 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 10:55:17 »

2. CE cap should only be available as part of the CE package

^ This  :thumb:

Offline UsualSuspectXXX

  • Posts: 3461
  • Location: Persephone
  • (⌐■_■)⊃━☆゚.*・。゚
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #136 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 15:32:59 »
I really think mobbo nailed it.

1. You do you (you can't please everyone all of the time)
2. CE cap should only be available as part of the CE package
3. Switching up CE package contents from release to release will encourage different people to purchase them
4. $100-$125 is a great price point for all the extras and exclusivity
5. If all else fails, go back to 1 :thumb:

You hit the nail on the head with this one.

Offline LeandreN

  • Mekanisk.co
  • * Vendor
  • Posts: 2936
  • Location: ISO
    • Mekanisk
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #137 on: Sat, 05 March 2016, 15:34:36 »
make a taco dinner kit bro edition

Offline rioc

  • Posts: 985
  • Location: such Place
  • Very Text - 键盘上瘾 ____rioc industries ink.
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #138 on: Mon, 07 March 2016, 08:01:42 »
Hi

I'd be happy with all 3 CE package variations (one sale after another)...
also, the original price you set for the reaper invasion CE would have been fine in my regard. I'm guessing the 100$ price tag you made later on will just barely make you break even regarding the investment made. (Depending on how many units were made, but since it's CE I guess not too much)...

as for making the CE cap available seperately; Only the surplus ones should be available like that, otherwise, if there's enough CE packages to cover all the CE caps, I think they should be bundled... (oh my, I know that decreases my chances of grabbing another one, but that's the risk I guess) ;)

cheers

Offline ApocalypseMaow

  • Kitteh Overlord
  • Posts: 1877
  • Location: Arkansas
  • Say WHAAT...
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #139 on: Sun, 27 March 2016, 16:44:40 »
let me get that mouse pad son!!!
{WTT}HoffNudes(WTS)BLK LightSaverV2         
"#baby****fangerz" -Vesper 2015

Offline zzyjayfree

  • Posts: 440
  • Location: Canada
Re: Let's discuss future CE packages (Q&A)
« Reply #140 on: Wed, 30 March 2016, 14:59:47 »
I like pkg #2 the most. For #1 I personally have more then enough mouse pad than I need, but themed key puller and key chain sounds really great. For #3 I think mini comic book is gonna cost you a lot of time to finish...But pin and 3" figure will be really nice.
OTD 360 Corsa w/ Nixdorf, OTD 356.2 DGE, Matrix 1.2, Matrix 2.0, Matrix Abel, Skog, Dolphin, EM7, Lynn Pad, Plank, LZ-RE, EqualZ, Orion v2, Octagon v2, Viper v2, Tank, Mira, Mira SE, Moon, Camp 225, Let's Split, HHKB, RealForce, Infinity Ergo, Cherry 3700, DolchPac, Nixdorf, Model M, Filcos.