Post by: nephlock on Wed, 28 November 2018, 11:40:37
Heya peeps! I've mostly been a lurker here, but I am not new to this hobby. Just much more active on reddit, UTMK discord, and keychatter. Anyway, I'd like to welcome you to the IC for GMK Metropolis!
Taking inspiration from the dazzling lights of the big city, this keyset features pops of color set on a strong blue-black base. The colors draw a close parallel to traffic lights, while the novelty icons are derived from classic orientation signage.
I've done my best to solidify the concept and provide some essentials for getting feedback, but this is by no means final.
If you have a comment or suggestion please pass it through in the comments
Google Survey (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSefcsc7XrQHMxycWxvmK0WTzFBQyb1_Iu2IukDpn2n_vJYxbA/viewform?usp=sf_link)
2.28.2019 UPDATE
- Daily Clack added to Proxies
- Proxy Prices
2.25.2019 UPDATE
- Official GMK Renders
- GB Launch Date!
- Kit Pricing
- Proxies
2.3.2019 UPDATE
- Renders are in! A big thank you to Oblotzky for his talented work on these!
- Deskmat samples have arrived, updated photos
- GB is looking like end of Q1/Early Q2. Will have a specific day soon!
12.9.2018 UPDATE
Added Color Comparison Album, as well as Mini Desk Mat
12.5.2018 UPDATE
First off, BIG THANK YOU to those that filled out the survey. I listened! The largest points of feedback have been outlined below, and you will see the changes reflected in their appropriate sections.
- MORE Novelties! In their own kit
- Spacebars
- Better ISO support
- Icon Mods (see novelties)
- Desk mat
There's also two VERY big additions!
- NOVELKEYS! - GB Launches on NovelKeys on March 25, 2019!
- KEYFORGE! - We will be working with Keyforge on an artisan collaboration for those that get in on the group buy!
Renders
Rama Works Koyu
(https://i.imgur.com/Z7CDsnB.jpg)
More
(https://i.imgur.com/T7n4Z4q.png) (https://i.imgur.com/suLxFZN.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XznsIOp.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XznsIOp.jpg)
Rama Works M60-A
(https://i.imgur.com/X56esQl.jpg)
More
(https://i.imgur.com/EZa2EC0.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/8qDzmrR.png)
TGR Jane V2
(https://i.imgur.com/Qqei8lO.jpg)
More
(https://i.imgur.com/AVHOYzk.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/gURxAs6.jpg)
Zambumon Andromeda
(https://i.imgur.com/urEQ4aj.jpg)
More
(https://i.imgur.com/yexLurh.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/PQbiC3o.jpg)
CA66
(https://i.imgur.com/488lhsF.jpg)
More
(https://i.imgur.com/slcJ7fK.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/3urdDeE.jpg)
Final Kits
Base kit - $135 - MOQ of 250
(https://i.imgur.com/WAhZU5J.png)
Midnight kit - $80 - MOQ of 100
(https://i.imgur.com/3XWCrPv.png)
Signs kit - $50 - MOQ of 150
(https://i.imgur.com/yuhDURK.png)
Blocks kit - $30 - MOQ of 100
(https://i.imgur.com/gwDBNKt.png)
40% Kit
I know there were a lot of people requesting this, and I had also worked up what the kit would be, I am ultimately deciding not to run one. Quite simply, based off of recent kit runs a 40% kit would not make MOQ. The pressure and risk that puts on both myself and the vendors to either buy out the remaining kits, or suffer people backing out, is too great.
More
(https://i.imgur.com/MZATl5W.png)
Base kit - 153 caps
Adjustments:
- 2u Shift
+ Better ISO support! Now with accent Return
- Novelties
(https://i.imgur.com/s2Ndqct.png)
Midnight Mods - 59 caps
Adjustments:
- 2u Shift
(https://i.imgur.com/hdzWTda.png)
Novelties - 21 caps
By demand! I've added a few more 1u streetlight-esque caps. There was a large amount of feedback around icon mods... While i feel that icon mods would make an imbalance on this set, I felt like adding a few "traffic" signs to the novelties fit well with the theme. These have been made on the most consistent cap sizes to limit kit-bloat (Tab, Caps/R3 Ctrl, Enter, R4 1.25/1.5), as well as space them out across the board in key areas.
(https://i.imgur.com/FD0FXcD.png)
Spacebars - 11 caps
Ask and ye shall receive! 6u spacebars, accent spacebars, and support for the split space crowd
- Kits 1.1 archiveBase kit - 153 caps
Adjustments:
- 2u Shift
+ Better ISO support! Now with accent Return
- Novelties
(https://i.imgur.com/s2Ndqct.png)
Midnight Mods - 59 caps
Adjustments:
- 2u Shift
(https://i.imgur.com/hdzWTda.png)
Novelties - 21 caps
By demand! I've added a few more 1u streetlight-esque caps. There was a large amount of feedback around icon mods... While i feel that icon mods would make an imbalance on this set, I felt like adding a few "traffic" signs to the novelties fit well with the theme. These have been made on the most consistent cap sizes to limit kit-bloat (Tab, Caps/R3 Ctrl, Enter, R4 1.25/1.5), as well as space them out across the board in key areas.
(https://i.imgur.com/FD0FXcD.png)
Spacebars - 11 caps
Ask and ye shall receive! 6u spacebars, accent spacebars, and support for the split space crowd
More
(https://i.imgur.com/eSndCLO.png)
Base kit - 158 caps
My goal for these initial kits was to still provide coverage for the majority of layouts, while being able to provide some accent caps and a few novelties in the base set. The goal of the novelties are to be simple and unobtrusive, so i have only included 1Us and very few so that they can ship with the base set.
(https://i.imgur.com/fCG8JQs.png)
Midnight Mods - 59 caps
An all teal modifier pack for making a unified "dark" version of this set.
- Kits 1.0 archive Base kit - 158 caps
My goal for these initial kits was to still provide coverage for the majority of layouts, while being able to provide some accent caps and a few novelties in the base set. The goal of the novelties are to be simple and unobtrusive, so i have only included 1Us and very few so that they can ship with the base set.
(https://i.imgur.com/fCG8JQs.png)
Midnight Mods - 59 caps
An all teal modifier pack for making a unified "dark" version of this set.
Deskmat
25% of you said you already had a few, but 75% of you were all about it, so here we are! Pulling from the novelties, but keeping it abstract enough to give a nod to the intertwining turnpikes and traffic congestion maps.
(https://i.imgur.com/3HOuPC7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KEABvNF.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/DQKc5kZ.jpg)
More
(https://i.imgur.com/P0LqKqQ.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/3bi6bQk.png)
NEW! Mini Deskmat
We get it. Deskmats are big. But what if they didn't have to be? This smaller size (450x400mm) may serve a bit better for those with limited desk space.
- Deskmat Designs(https://i.imgur.com/3bi6bQk.png)
NEW! Mini Deskmat
We get it. Deskmats are big. But what if they didn't have to be? This smaller size (450x400mm) may serve a bit better for those with limited desk space.
Colors
(https://i.imgur.com/yskrTXl.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/XeAnv1w.jpg)
https://imgur.com/a/VLAfUHZ - FULL Color Comparison Album
Using the Pantone chips I've made an album that shows them side by side with other popular keysets for you to get a better look at the colors and how they compare. I will be repeating this process during the GMK sampling phase as well, so that you guys can be informed throughout the process.
Vendors
The GMK Metropolis GB will be run on NovelKeys (https://novelkeys.xyz/) from March 25th to April 25th
Proxies
EU - Mykeyboard.eu
Base - 136 €
Midnight - 83 €
Signs - 56 €
Blocks - 30 €
ASIA - zFrontier
Base - 932 ¥
Midnight - 549 ¥
Signs - 355 ¥
Blocks - 204 ¥
OCEANA - Daily Clack
Base - 210.25 AUD
Midnight - 138.26 AUD
Signs - 80 AUD
Blocks - 48 AUD
Keyforge
We will be working with Keyforge on an artisan collaboration for those that get in on the group buy!
To Do
- Keyforge samples
Support this project by using this signature!
Code: [Select]
[url=https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=98355.0][img width=300]https://i.imgur.com/1Zt7nqf.png[/img][/url]
Post by: Rubbermilitia on Wed, 28 November 2018, 11:47:24
Post by: mrpetrov on Wed, 28 November 2018, 11:48:08
Post by: network_operations on Wed, 28 November 2018, 11:50:42
Post by: cdhoffmann on Wed, 28 November 2018, 11:51:30
Post by: reggalicious on Wed, 28 November 2018, 11:52:53
Count me in.
Post by: waxpoetik on Wed, 28 November 2018, 11:54:07
Post by: txclack on Wed, 28 November 2018, 11:54:57
Post by: Gumberculese on Wed, 28 November 2018, 11:56:06
Post by: iaman on Wed, 28 November 2018, 11:56:29
Post by: bobdenard on Wed, 28 November 2018, 11:56:47
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: aggroxcraig on Wed, 28 November 2018, 12:02:30
Post by: gasp on Wed, 28 November 2018, 12:06:28
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Post by: Starston3 on Wed, 28 November 2018, 12:12:08
I would just suggest to match pantone color to RAL. A few recent GMK sets have had better luck matching RAL color than pantone and/or get samples.
Post by: moonux on Wed, 28 November 2018, 12:19:55
Post by: otanishock on Wed, 28 November 2018, 12:26:15
Post by: smurkcity12 on Wed, 28 November 2018, 12:40:24
Not sure if it'd look decent or not, but I'm curious to see what the F keys might look like if you did red, yellow, teal legends on the 3 sets of F keys respectively to worth the theme more. Might look like ****...just a thought though.
Post by: Abec13 on Wed, 28 November 2018, 12:48:30
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Post by: otanishock on Wed, 28 November 2018, 12:58:29
I really like this. It's the first set I've seen in a while that made me go oooooohhhh when I saw it.Hmm I think a mono color theme for the F-row like what we have right now would look a lot cleaner. All in for the classic, muted look.
Not sure if it'd look decent or not, but I'm curious to see what the F keys might look like if you did red, yellow, teal legends on the 3 sets of F keys respectively to worth the theme more. Might look like ****...just a thought though.
Post by: AlcoholEnthusiast on Wed, 28 November 2018, 13:17:48
Post by: blizzara01 on Wed, 28 November 2018, 13:20:21
Post by: AuDiTH on Wed, 28 November 2018, 13:41:28
Post by: keylabskeycaps on Wed, 28 November 2018, 13:53:30
Post by: nephlock on Wed, 28 November 2018, 14:01:10
I really like this. It's the first set I've seen in a while that made me go oooooohhhh when I saw it.
Not sure if it'd look decent or not, but I'm curious to see what the F keys might look like if you did red, yellow, teal legends on the 3 sets of F keys respectively to worth the theme more. Might look like ****...just a thought though.
The original mockup had red and yellow F rows, but it caused too many extra keys to be included in the Midnight kit to be viable. Changing them out to all teal was the only way i could get that kit down enough. Tradeoffs i guess. :/
Post by: mrkantz on Wed, 28 November 2018, 14:45:31
Post by: kve91 on Wed, 28 November 2018, 14:52:44
Post by: smurkcity12 on Wed, 28 November 2018, 15:00:09
I really like this. It's the first set I've seen in a while that made me go oooooohhhh when I saw it.
Not sure if it'd look decent or not, but I'm curious to see what the F keys might look like if you did red, yellow, teal legends on the 3 sets of F keys respectively to worth the theme more. Might look like ****...just a thought though.
The original mockup had red and yellow F rows, but it caused too many extra keys to be included in the Midnight kit to be viable. Changing them out to all teal was the only way i could get that kit down enough. Tradeoffs i guess. :/
Understandable. Regardless, it looks very nice!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: rondg on Wed, 28 November 2018, 15:28:39
Post by: mike-y on Wed, 28 November 2018, 16:38:49
Post by: Boingles on Wed, 28 November 2018, 17:02:26
Post by: quinnx on Wed, 28 November 2018, 17:17:30
Thank u I'm going to support this 110%
Post by: XXXXXXXX on Wed, 28 November 2018, 18:19:05
Post by: dantambok on Wed, 28 November 2018, 18:36:44
Post by: urbantheii on Wed, 28 November 2018, 19:20:55
Post by: razor_blade on Wed, 28 November 2018, 19:44:22
Post by: Funktion on Wed, 28 November 2018, 19:48:48
Post by: Ashardalon on Wed, 28 November 2018, 19:52:25
Post by: Hokabuki on Wed, 28 November 2018, 19:54:12
I like it.100% get samples and evaluate them in different lighting and backgrounds.
I would just suggest to match pantone color to RAL. A few recent GMK sets have had better luck matching RAL color than pantone and/or get samples.
Post by: nephlock on Wed, 28 November 2018, 20:45:39
I like it.100% get samples and evaluate them in different lighting and backgrounds.
I would just suggest to match pantone color to RAL. A few recent GMK sets have had better luck matching RAL color than pantone and/or get samples.
Working on an update for this now. I pulled the colors from Pantone chips, and am working on getting quality photos of those chips in different lighting situations. Pantone is what i have access too, but will see what i might be able to do with RAL. Either way i am planning on getting samples during the production process to ensure accurate color.
Post by: Jkush463 on Wed, 28 November 2018, 20:49:03
Post by: trabbit on Wed, 28 November 2018, 21:39:53
Post by: Ensaum on Wed, 28 November 2018, 21:59:32
Post by: gutsack on Wed, 28 November 2018, 23:41:04
My only concern is that this gets well sampled so it doesn’t end up like GMK Solarized... that primary color looks great here but it ideally ends up that way on the manufactured caps.
Post by: bobdenard on Thu, 29 November 2018, 07:22:52
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: bkim14 on Thu, 29 November 2018, 08:44:54
Post by: Ensaum on Thu, 29 November 2018, 09:59:26
Do you think you will be able/willing to use the new R0/R5 molds from GMK Carbon R2?
NO!
Post by: appaboy on Thu, 29 November 2018, 10:01:14
Post by: Ensaum on Thu, 29 November 2018, 10:05:28
That's disappointing. R0 is pretty nice
I'm not op, so wait for word from him. I don't want it, though, because I want this gb to be able to succeed.
Post by: nephlock on Thu, 29 November 2018, 10:29:57
Do you think you will be able/willing to use the new R0/R5 molds from GMK Carbon R2?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not planning on it for this, sorry mate.
Post by: Mekuno on Thu, 29 November 2018, 11:20:11
Post by: Puddsy on Thu, 29 November 2018, 11:21:14
Post by: bloos on Thu, 29 November 2018, 11:21:55
Post by: nephlock on Thu, 29 November 2018, 12:28:31
I'd love to see a render with the midnight mods
I will see what I can do!
Post by: tex_live_utility on Thu, 29 November 2018, 12:53:32
Post by: captsis on Thu, 29 November 2018, 20:16:27
Nice looking set! I'd almost want this in SA (or ABS MT3) over Cherry/GMK.same. But the set is dope regardless!
Post by: AlcoholEnthusiast on Thu, 29 November 2018, 23:34:36
Post by: Myth on Fri, 30 November 2018, 01:56:16
Post by: nephlock on Fri, 30 November 2018, 10:35:50
Any chance of an icon mods kit? I agree, I think it would look really good with this set.
I've gotten multiple questions on icon mods, so i figured it best to share my thoughts on them. Because this set uses two colors on the mods, and the alphas are quite vibrant, I think icon mods would push the set overall into feeling a bit too busy and chaotic. While I do enjoy icon mods on other sets, I think the using of text mods is what adds a bit of counterbalance visually.
That being said, the kits are still being worked on and I've gotten a lot of great feedback in the survey! Thank you SO much everyone that has filled it out. One of the most resounding pieces is the addition of more novelties, and broken into a separate kit. Seeing as the theme of the novelties is around signage, I see a lot of similarities between that and the icons typically used in keysets. In working towards a full novelties kit, I am going to explore options around making a few "novelty icon modifiers" for some of the most used keys.
Post by: gasp on Sat, 01 December 2018, 21:28:54
Any chance of an icon mods kit? I agree, I think it would look really good with this set.
I've gotten multiple questions on icon mods, so i figured it best to share my thoughts on them. Because this set uses two colors on the mods, and the alphas are quite vibrant, I think icon mods would push the set overall into feeling a bit too busy and chaotic. While I do enjoy icon mods on other sets, I think the using of text mods is what adds a bit of counterbalance visually.
That being said, the kits are still being worked on and I've gotten a lot of great feedback in the survey! Thank you SO much everyone that has filled it out. One of the most resounding pieces is the addition of more novelties, and broken into a separate kit. Seeing as the theme of the novelties is around signage, I see a lot of similarities between that and the icons typically used in keysets. In working towards a full novelties kit, I am going to explore options around making a few "novelty icon modifiers" for some of the most used keys.
I hear you, but if you kept it simple and minimalist I think it could really add something to the set for sure. something along the lines of the miicons (same simplictdy) I think would really fit the feel of these keys. Would be a ton of work though.
Post by: Audiobs on Sat, 01 December 2018, 21:35:01
Post by: Okonomiyaki#2832 on Sat, 01 December 2018, 21:37:01
Post by: THRILLHOIAF on Sat, 01 December 2018, 22:13:46
Quote
I've already done the work on matching to Pantone. It matters.
lol
Post by: nephlock on Sat, 01 December 2018, 23:11:50
Interesting, but am concern with the colours. Would need more time and verification on the sampling phase to ensure an incident like violet tendencies won't happen again.
Totally understandable. I'm working on an update currently that will show the Pantone chips in different lighting along with popular keycap colors to give a better idea. Once it gets to the sampling phase from GMK i will be doing the same thing with the ABS samples
Post by: dyka.tran on Sun, 02 December 2018, 04:30:15
Post by: LovelyUncle on Sun, 02 December 2018, 07:12:49
Any chance of an icon mods kit? I agree, I think it would look really good with this set.
I've gotten multiple questions on icon mods, so i figured it best to share my thoughts on them. Because this set uses two colors on the mods, and the alphas are quite vibrant, I think icon mods would push the set overall into feeling a bit too busy and chaotic. While I do enjoy icon mods on other sets, I think the using of text mods is what adds a bit of counterbalance visually.
That being said, the kits are still being worked on and I've gotten a lot of great feedback in the survey! Thank you SO much everyone that has filled it out. One of the most resounding pieces is the addition of more novelties, and broken into a separate kit. Seeing as the theme of the novelties is around signage, I see a lot of similarities between that and the icons typically used in keysets. In working towards a full novelties kit, I am going to explore options around making a few "novelty icon modifiers" for some of the most used keys.
Agree with you on the text mods. I think the limited use of colour is a point of strength for this set. Icon mods will add a lot of colour and make it a feel bit heavy. Great work!
Post by: Oni74 on Sun, 02 December 2018, 13:50:28
Post by: pixelpusher on Sun, 02 December 2018, 14:10:15
Not sure if this has been mentioned before or not, but the colors look very similar to a set that won MD's contest. (I can't recall the name)
Sure. DSA 2077. But that set has funky ugly alphas and its a different profile. And the base color here is a dark blue, not black
Post by: gasp on Sun, 02 December 2018, 19:07:57
Not sure if this has been mentioned before or not, but the colors look very similar to a set that won MD's contest. (I can't recall the name)Nah, that's way closer to dsa grooves colors than to these, Imo. Completely different sets.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Post by: sevenseacat on Mon, 03 December 2018, 04:32:50
Post by: Etherealsound on Wed, 05 December 2018, 11:05:06
Post by: gasp on Wed, 05 December 2018, 21:51:44
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Post by: XXXXXXXX on Wed, 05 December 2018, 23:09:56
Post by: blizzara01 on Wed, 05 December 2018, 23:12:06
Post by: Ensaum on Wed, 05 December 2018, 23:17:23
That deskmat :thumb:
I let out an audible "Oof" when I saw it. I'm starting to get into collecting desk pads as much as keycap sets, lol. Super stoked for this drop in general nephlock :thumb:
Post by: euphxenos on Wed, 05 December 2018, 23:58:28
Post by: MFahim on Thu, 06 December 2018, 00:21:22
Post by: dantambok on Thu, 06 December 2018, 01:44:02
Post by: AlcoholEnthusiast on Thu, 06 December 2018, 01:50:03
Post by: Vireca on Thu, 06 December 2018, 14:07:32
Post by: laserbeamspewpew on Thu, 06 December 2018, 14:30:05
Post by: shyBravado on Thu, 06 December 2018, 14:51:02
Post by: mimalik on Thu, 06 December 2018, 15:29:51
Post by: mimalik on Thu, 06 December 2018, 15:32:08
I know I may in minority here, but any chance of a separate alpha kits with English + Japanese sublegends. Only because colors are so vivid here and I think it will look really cool.Just to make it funkier, use 179C color for legend.
Post by: mrpetrov on Thu, 06 December 2018, 16:01:50
Post by: Jkush463 on Thu, 06 December 2018, 17:33:50
Post by: PotatoTM on Fri, 07 December 2018, 03:07:04
Post by: rondg on Fri, 07 December 2018, 03:24:28
Post by: Ivanddt on Fri, 07 December 2018, 05:34:36
Post by: saucybulgogi on Fri, 07 December 2018, 09:40:16
Post by: StrangPrisoner on Fri, 07 December 2018, 11:07:48
Post by: Etherealsound on Fri, 07 December 2018, 11:52:07
Post by: titanium on Fri, 07 December 2018, 12:49:04
Post by: dimo on Sat, 08 December 2018, 23:35:44
It'll be hard to match that with most boards :c
Post by: nephlock on Sun, 09 December 2018, 01:27:26
What color is the base color? Dark blue? The render looks like a black.
It'll be hard to match that with most boards :c
base color is a blue-black. i'll be posting a chip comparison soon, but it's pretty dark. Should still match nicely with black/gray/silver boards, as well as blue boards.
Post by: dimo on Sun, 09 December 2018, 01:28:10
What color is the base color? Dark blue? The render looks like a black.
It'll be hard to match that with most boards :c
base color is a blue-black. i'll be posting a chip comparison soon, but it's pretty dark. Should still match nicely with black/gray/silver boards, as well as blue boards.
thanks! i’d love to see some renders
Post by: nephlock on Sun, 09 December 2018, 01:33:43
What color is the base color? Dark blue? The render looks like a black.
It'll be hard to match that with most boards :c
base color is a blue-black. i'll be posting a chip comparison soon, but it's pretty dark. Should still match nicely with black/gray/silver boards, as well as blue boards.
thanks! i’d love to see some renders
Workin on it! ;) ;) ;)
Post by: dantambok on Sun, 09 December 2018, 02:55:34
Post by: leexy on Sun, 09 December 2018, 10:10:30
I'd love to see a render with the midnight modsI second this
Post by: nephlock on Sun, 09 December 2018, 16:50:11
Are you considering zF as a vendor?
Proxies are still being discussed and figured out, but keep an eye on the updates! Once they become confirmed the thread will be updated :)
I'd love to see a render with the midnight modsI second this
I third this! We're still working on a full run of renders, but rest assured a full midnight kit will be present among them :)
Post by: rondg on Sun, 09 December 2018, 23:08:04
Post by: nephlock on Mon, 10 December 2018, 10:13:38
Is the orange color of the R4 End key intentional?
Yep! The styling of this set has the bottom two rows as red-orange, and those above it as yellow. So that is why you see the R2 End key as yellow, but the R4 End key as red-orange.
Post by: Araex on Mon, 10 December 2018, 18:56:30
Will the split spacebars be convex? Judging from Calm Depths, GMK has R4C for 2, 2.25 and 2.75u.
Post by: nephlock on Tue, 11 December 2018, 10:40:41
The colors look great!
Will the split spacebars be convex? Judging from Calm Depths, GMK has R4C for 2, 2.25 and 2.75u.
yes, they will be :)
Post by: talizman on Sat, 22 December 2018, 15:54:25
Post by: dimo on Sat, 22 December 2018, 16:23:41
Gorgeous. Be sure to post on Keebtalk.
we don’t associate with those people
jk. good idea, more people should see this
Post by: nephlock on Sat, 22 December 2018, 19:35:29
Gorgeous. Be sure to post on Keebtalk.
I always forget about Keebtalk... thanks guys. next update is gonna be soonish and I'll remember to make a post there as well!
Post by: RamenTechMech on Sun, 23 December 2018, 02:25:41
Post by: cldskt on Sun, 23 December 2018, 08:09:19
With frequent updates and comparisons of color samples with the pantone chips in different light conditions like you plan to do, I’m sure this set would not have a problem hitting MOQ!
Post by: gasp on Sun, 23 December 2018, 10:27:28
Pantone chip for the base color from the album photos seems REALLY dark (very close to black).Looks like he put them in the original post! They're already there.
With frequent updates and comparisons of color samples with the pantone chips in different lught conditions like you plan to do, I’m sure this set would not have a problem hitting MOQ!
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Post by: cldskt on Sun, 23 December 2018, 10:36:34
Pantone chip for the base color from the album photos seems REALLY dark (very close to black).Looks like he put them in the original post! They're already there.
With frequent updates and comparisons of color samples with the pantone chips in different lught conditions like you plan to do, I’m sure this set would not have a problem hitting MOQ!
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Yeah I saw that, hence the comment on the pantone chip being very dark (even under 1pm sunlight as shown in the album).
I meant that OP seems to be determined to provide constant updates as the GB progresses (in the future) and that would build buyer’s confidence.
Post by: bobdenard on Sun, 23 December 2018, 11:45:08
Pantone chip for the base color from the album photos seems REALLY dark (very close to black).
I agree with you, the Pantone reference seems way darker than the renders. I’m not sure that’s the best choice.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Starston3 on Sun, 23 December 2018, 19:00:51
[attach=1]
It will would really tie in the Metropolis feel.
Post by: phatty on Sat, 29 December 2018, 01:22:09
I'll be in for a few sets!
Happy to help proxy any for Australians
Post by: Myth on Sat, 29 December 2018, 03:35:41
Pantone chip for the base color from the album photos seems REALLY dark (very close to black).
I agree with you, the Pantone reference seems way darker than the renders. I’m not sure that’s the best choice.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
+1
Post by: rondg on Sun, 30 December 2018, 07:07:53
Pantone chip for the base color from the album photos seems REALLY dark (very close to black).
I agree with you, the Pantone reference seems way darker than the renders. I’m not sure that’s the best choice.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
+1
+1
In my opinion, the color on the renders is close to the actual color of the alphas on the solarized dark
Post by: bthezebra on Sun, 30 December 2018, 10:46:21
Post by: etong415 on Sun, 30 December 2018, 10:56:54
Post by: saucybulgogi on Sun, 30 December 2018, 11:29:50
Post by: Marutks on Sun, 30 December 2018, 16:32:36
Post by: jrfhoutx on Sun, 30 December 2018, 20:12:17
the background of the deskmat render looks like it's halfway between the Solarized Dark alphas and mods.
Post by: WHeisenberg on Tue, 01 January 2019, 13:49:42
Post by: nephlock on Wed, 02 January 2019, 12:29:17
will be there EU proxy?
Proxies are currently being worked on :). once i am able to get some confirmations i will let everyone know!
Post by: nephlock on Wed, 02 January 2019, 23:37:11
Agreed that base color might as well be black, it needs to be a lighter to show color difference.
The base color is intended to be dark, but will definitely not be black. The following photo is of the same two chips under warm 60w lamplight. For color reference they are on top of a US Passport.
(https://i.imgur.com/311Ii3j.jpg)
Post by: tex_live_utility on Wed, 02 January 2019, 23:53:50
Post by: bthezebra on Thu, 03 January 2019, 00:29:15
This new pictures definitely gives a better perspective on the Pantone choice and I think should be added to the first post. However, I still have concerns that current dark Pantone applied to abs plastic would not achieve your intended result as seen in the full board renders. Most people are not going to combine this set with GMK originative or any other black keyset to accent and show the color difference.Agreed that base color might as well be black, it needs to be a lighter to show color difference.
The base color is intended to be dark, but will definitely not be black. The following photo is of the same two chips under warm 60w lamplight. For color reference they are on top of a US Passport.Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/311Ii3j.jpg)
When I wrote might as well be black, I meant for anyone looking at a board with these caps will likely see it as black with colored accents (based on current Pantone and image below). The full keyboard renders, to me, give a mysterious intriguing vibe with the color.
I want the set to look like the render in most normal/common lighting rather than needing to be in direct sunlight. Not trying to offend just sharing my view in trying to make the intended set a reality.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190103/1f20aa00cf39a63299742f206fc741dc.jpg)
Post by: hottrout on Thu, 03 January 2019, 05:13:02
Post by: Marutks on Thu, 03 January 2019, 10:21:01
Post by: nephlock on Thu, 03 January 2019, 12:21:18
When I wrote might as well be black, I meant for anyone looking at a board with these caps will likely see it as black with colored accents
I do think we are both wanting of the same thing. My goal is for the keycaps to be a dark inky blue, and not to be easily mistaken as black. I do believe the current Pantone swatch will achieve this once there is a board full of keycaps. There will sampling phases with GMK where i will ensure that ends up being the case.
Post by: bthezebra on Thu, 03 January 2019, 14:35:01
[/quote]
Ok I will trust your process and judgement. I am still anticipating this keyset :)
Post by: yap68 on Fri, 04 January 2019, 05:04:27
Post by: chouyu on Sat, 05 January 2019, 09:56:21
Post by: lakeboredom on Sun, 06 January 2019, 05:02:50
Post by: nephlock on Mon, 07 January 2019, 22:47:03
Formal update coming soon!
(https://i.imgur.com/LxuRCXX.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/EaJEAyI.jpg)
Post by: lakeboredom on Tue, 08 January 2019, 00:43:46
Post by: RamenTechMech on Tue, 08 January 2019, 00:45:59
This is beautiful!!! Definitely getting the desk pad!! :thumb:
Post by: dimo on Tue, 08 January 2019, 00:48:20
Any eta on more renders?
Post by: hottrout on Tue, 08 January 2019, 03:57:27
Post by: nephlock on Tue, 08 January 2019, 20:32:36
Any eta on more renders?
VERY soon ;D
Post by: livingspeedbump on Wed, 09 January 2019, 16:55:51
Post by: phatty on Thu, 10 January 2019, 17:43:59
Post by: Hokabuki on Thu, 10 January 2019, 21:57:31
Those deskmats are bonkers. I'm in for a stack!It looks great as a desktop background too!
Post by: jrfhoutx on Thu, 10 January 2019, 23:15:18
Those deskmats are bonkers. I'm in for a stack!It looks great as a desktop background too!
It really does. Only deskmat design I've seen that I'd keep as a desktop background
Post by: Visionaire on Fri, 11 January 2019, 22:25:09
Post by: Starius on Sun, 13 January 2019, 15:04:36
But I've just been scanning through the forum here for GMK sets because I think the profile might be ideal for my new TKC1800 board.
And wow, do I love how this set looks! I think it could be the perfect match to my sapphire blue board.
I don't know if the GB is coming soon or not, but count me in when the time comes.
Post by: livingspeedbump on Fri, 18 January 2019, 10:09:26
Dudeman also makes good burgers, always an important detail to learn about your designers.
Post by: TheKeyCompany on Sun, 20 January 2019, 16:56:34
Post by: adrianpsf on Mon, 21 January 2019, 01:13:41
Post by: SlamMakanen on Mon, 21 January 2019, 02:56:01
With that change and depending on bank balance I'm in
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: raptorzoz on Mon, 21 January 2019, 13:00:39
Post by: SBN on Mon, 21 January 2019, 13:04:25
Perhaps change the ISO enter on the base kit to the same teal as the ANSI? Especially since it's dark on the midnight kit.
With that change and depending on bank balance I'm in
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It’s already in the base kit? Or am I missing something?
Post by: SlamMakanen on Mon, 21 January 2019, 15:02:15
Perhaps change the ISO enter on the base kit to the same teal as the ANSI? Especially since it's dark on the midnight kit.
With that change and depending on bank balance I'm in
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It’s already in the base kit? Or am I missing something?
Actually, I'm blind. Ignore me!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: bobdenard on Sun, 27 January 2019, 06:31:01
So how soon is very soon? :) Can’t wait for this set!Any eta on more renders?
VERY soon ;D
Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
Post by: Sic_Alpha on Mon, 28 January 2019, 00:21:36
Post by: nephlock on Mon, 28 January 2019, 10:12:37
What's the possibility of getting the other color options added for the split spacebars?
Unfortunately.... there isn't one. Sorry. Adding red and teal for the split spacebars would almost double the number of caps, increasing the price of the kit too much for me to feel comfortable.
Post by: Abec13 on Mon, 28 January 2019, 23:28:26
Post by: AlcoholEnthusiast on Wed, 30 January 2019, 03:10:25
Post by: Hutch on Wed, 30 January 2019, 09:06:52
Post by: nephlock on Wed, 30 January 2019, 10:33:47
What is the estimated timeline for this moving to GB stage?
Currently aiming at late Q1, early Q2. But waiting on a few things before a date can be finalized
Is there absolutely zero chance of a 40s kit?
Not zero. I have a 40s kit made out, but right now i'm talking with people on the viability of it making MOQ. A few examples...
The GMK Space Cadet buy on MD only made 95/100 on its 40's kit (which was a $129 standalone kit), and the recently completed GMK DMG from TheKeyCompany only hit 39/100 on the 40's kit—Requiring TKC to buy out the remaining 60+ kits to get them produced. Generous of him, but we may not be in the same position should we come up that short. Currently as it stands the IC survey for this set, only had 37 people ask for a 40's kit. This leaves us VERY short, even with the assumption that everyone who answered is in a position to join.
It is not my intention to dismiss those asking for the kit, but hopefully that adds a little light for those asking.
Post by: Hokabuki on Wed, 30 January 2019, 16:35:55
Is there any harm in offering the 40s kit and cancelling it if there isn’t enough interest? I definitely understand not footing the bill for the unpurchased kits but think it should at least have a chance.What is the estimated timeline for this moving to GB stage?
Currently aiming at late Q1, early Q2. But waiting on a few things before a date can be finalizedIs there absolutely zero chance of a 40s kit?
Not zero. I have a 40s kit made out, but right now i'm talking with people on the viability of it making MOQ. A few examples...
The GMK Space Cadet buy on MD only made 95/100 on its 40's kit (which was a $129 standalone kit), and the recently completed GMK DMG from TheKeyCompany only hit 39/100 on the 40's kit—Requiring TKC to buy out the remaining 60+ kits to get them produced. Generous of him, but we may not be in the same position should we come up that short. Currently as it stands the IC survey for this set, only had 37 people ask for a 40's kit. This leaves us VERY short, even with the assumption that everyone who answered is in a position to join.
It is not my intention to dismiss those asking for the kit, but hopefully that adds a little light for those asking.
Post by: nephlock on Wed, 30 January 2019, 17:10:52
Quote
Is there any harm in offering the 40s kit and cancelling it if there isn’t enough interest? I definitely understand not footing the bill for the unpurchased kits but think it should at least have a chance.
Not inherently. But because a 40's kit would require the commitment to a base kit as well, it can create a predicament. So for example, say the base kit makes MOQ to 260, but 40 of those are people who back out because the 40s kit didn't make it... it takes the base kit back below the MOQ threshold by 30 kits. Leaving those in the base thinking it was going to make it, and then having it not. This would mean either footing the bill for the difference in base kit, or footing the bill to get MOQ on the 40s kit, which might end up being around the same price. My guess is that this is what happened with the GMK DMG buy.
Transparently... by the numbers in the IC survey there is little chance of the 40s kit making it to full MOQ, so it really comes down to if there is enough interest in vendor/proxies/etc. buying the extras. Right now i am talking with a few people to see about the risk on this, and that will determine whether a 40's kit gets added.
Again, hopefully this helps give some context for those in the limbo. Doin what i can peeps.
Post by: Hedgey on Thu, 31 January 2019, 10:59:58
Not inherently. But because a 40's kit would require the commitment to a base kit as well, it can create a predicament. So for example, say the base kit makes MOQ to 260, but 40 of those are people who back out because the 40s kit didn't make it... it takes the base kit back below the MOQ threshold by 30 kits. Leaving those in the base thinking it was going to make it, and then having it not. This would mean either footing the bill for the difference in base kit, or footing the bill to get MOQ on the 40s kit, which might end up being around the same price. My guess is that this is what happened with the GMK DMG buy.
Transparently... by the numbers in the IC survey there is little chance of the 40s kit making it to full MOQ, so it really comes down to if there is enough interest in vendor/proxies/etc. buying the extras. Right now i am talking with a few people to see about the risk on this, and that will determine whether a 40's kit gets added.
Again, hopefully this helps give some context for those in the limbo. Doin what i can peeps.
I really think the main issue boils down to the price of the 40's kits. I completely get how GMK needs to justify the cost to make those types of keys, but damn if that isn't the real turn off.
Post by: zzzaacchh on Thu, 31 January 2019, 12:16:46
QuoteIs there any harm in offering the 40s kit and cancelling it if there isn’t enough interest? I definitely understand not footing the bill for the unpurchased kits but think it should at least have a chance.
Not inherently. But because a 40's kit would require the commitment to a base kit as well, it can create a predicament. So for example, say the base kit makes MOQ to 260, but 40 of those are people who back out because the 40s kit didn't make it... it takes the base kit back below the MOQ threshold by 30 kits. Leaving those in the base thinking it was going to make it, and then having it not. This would mean either footing the bill for the difference in base kit, or footing the bill to get MOQ on the 40s kit, which might end up being around the same price. My guess is that this is what happened with the GMK DMG buy.
Transparently... by the numbers in the IC survey there is little chance of the 40s kit making it to full MOQ, so it really comes down to if there is enough interest in vendor/proxies/etc. buying the extras. Right now i am talking with a few people to see about the risk on this, and that will determine whether a 40's kit gets added.
Again, hopefully this helps give some context for those in the limbo. Doin what i can peeps.
The Assembly Base Kits that have been offered recently have solved this problem by grouping Ergodox and 40's users with their own base kit, so if it fails, the main base kit will still be supported. Check out the Assembly kit in Oblivion V2 for reference.
Edit: Never mind on the 40 bit kit, I just saw your previous post mentioning Space Cadet
Post by: tex_live_utility on Thu, 31 January 2019, 19:01:34
Post by: dimo on Thu, 31 January 2019, 19:27:43
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: MxBlue on Thu, 31 January 2019, 19:46:26
Do you think it’ll hit gb in Q1?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Currently aiming at late Q1, early Q2. But waiting on a few things before a date can be finalized
Post by: dimo on Thu, 31 January 2019, 23:38:05
Do you think it’ll hit gb in Q1?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Currently aiming at late Q1, early Q2. But waiting on a few things before a date can be finalized
Thanks! I'll be waiting for those renders ;)
Post by: omjak on Fri, 01 February 2019, 15:32:08
Post by: CustomerSupport on Sun, 03 February 2019, 11:25:30
Post by: nephlock on Sun, 03 February 2019, 14:37:21
Thanks! I'll be waiting for those renders ;)
Renders are updated! Was planning on posting earlier but i've been sick for the last bit. Thanks for the patience all!
Post by: mrpetrov on Sun, 03 February 2019, 14:40:12
Renders look brilliant and I think that may well be the best desk mat I have ever seen for my taste.
Post by: Zambumon on Sun, 03 February 2019, 14:53:30
Quote
2.3.2019 UPDATE(https://media.comicbook.com/2018/10/c-658vsxoao3ovc-1139955-1280x0.jpeg)
Renders are in! A big thank you to Oblotsky for his talented work on these!
Oblotsky vs Oblotzky
Post by: nephlock on Sun, 03 February 2019, 14:57:32
Oblotsky vs Oblotzky
LOL OOPS, fixed! We can't have any impostors runnin around!
Post by: bthezebra on Sun, 03 February 2019, 15:08:36
Post by: mnpq.raven on Sun, 03 February 2019, 16:34:05
Post by: upas on Sun, 03 February 2019, 16:51:42
Post by: doubleone44 on Sun, 03 February 2019, 16:59:47
Post by: dimo on Sun, 03 February 2019, 17:01:29
Post by: SolidCactus on Sun, 03 February 2019, 17:14:50
Any chance we could get R3 and R4 PgUp and PgDn added?
This please or 1U novelties per row if possible.
I will be picking up a set for sure!
Post by: booleanjulien on Sun, 03 February 2019, 22:11:46
Also, is it just me or is the photograph of the physical 5395c pantone pretty much just black? Is this the same thing that happened with Solarized Dark? As of right now, if GMK is matching to that physical pantone, the renders are not going to be representative of the final product.
I don't know the ins and outs of picking pantones, but to my eyes, this color seems to be more representative of the renders (https://www.pantone.com/color-finder/7546-C).
Post by: RamenTechMech on Sun, 03 February 2019, 22:16:12
Can't wait for GB now :thumb:
Post by: nephlock on Sun, 03 February 2019, 22:20:21
I am very sad that the 2u shift was removed.
Also, is it just me or is the photograph of the physical 5395c pantone pretty much just black? Is this the same thing that happened with Solarized Dark? As of right now, if GMK is matching to that physical pantone, the renders are not going to be representative of the final product.
I don't know the ins and outs of picking pantones, but to my eyes, this color seems to be more representative of the renders (https://www.pantone.com/color-finder/7546-C).
The chip is dark, but is definitely not black (there is another comparison shot of the chip alongside black on pg.3). The renders are what are being shot for, and the swatch is in line with those. Don't worry, we will be going through physical samples from the factory to make sure it gets done correctly, and I have heard from GMK that they are not overly concerned with hitting it.
Post by: nephlock on Sun, 03 February 2019, 22:24:07
Any chance we could get R3 and R4 PgUp and PgDn added?This please or 1U novelties per row if possible.
Unfortunately that would start adding too many keys per kit, but in the Signs novelties there are enough 1Us on each row to cover a full 65/75% column :)
Post by: rejuvienate on Mon, 04 February 2019, 01:29:12
Post by: synchromatik on Mon, 04 February 2019, 03:39:05
I want it all. In 100%. ANy EU Proxies posible?
Post by: cldskt on Mon, 04 February 2019, 05:48:29
In terms of lighting, you may want to aim to get “render-correct” colors in indoor lighting, instead of direct sun.
Would watch this with great interest
Post by: bobdenard on Mon, 04 February 2019, 08:39:31
Post by: mnpq.raven on Mon, 04 February 2019, 08:41:26
I don’t get why the 2u Shift was dropped, this kind of layout is more and more popular. I myself have 2 boards with a 2u Shift key. If you can please consider putting it back. I love this key set otherwise!2u shift is still a very minor layout
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Post by: upas on Mon, 04 February 2019, 09:00:18
Any chance we could get R3 and R4 PgUp and PgDn added?This please or 1U novelties per row if possible.
Unfortunately that would start adding too many keys per kit, but in the Signs novelties there are enough 1Us on each row to cover a full 65/75% column :)
Given that there are enough novelties to fill the 65/75% extra column, I no longer think R3 and R4 pgup/pgdn are necessary anymore :)
For me, as long as there is one or the other, I feel like the sets are complete. Sure, you have to buy novelties now, but they add flair to these sets and I end up buying them anyways 90% of the time.
Post by: Mekuno on Mon, 04 February 2019, 10:57:53
Post by: Peripheral Prophet on Mon, 04 February 2019, 15:15:27
Post by: nephlock on Tue, 05 February 2019, 10:48:47
Would it be possible to add the street sign enter novelty in teal color as well?
Unfortunately the novelty kit is already a bit bigger than i feel it should be. So, in the interest of the kit price i wont be adding any more caps to it.
Post by: jvangorkum on Thu, 07 February 2019, 01:40:46
Post by: Oblotzky on Thu, 07 February 2019, 05:30:03
This set really looks amazing! What is the color code for the keycaps? I want to know how this would fit on a dark solarized 65-a. Thanks!
He's using Pantone swatched to match, you can see them in the first post if you scroll down a bit.
Post by: keebitup on Thu, 07 February 2019, 07:27:03
i really enjoy the colors in this set, but I use ortho boards. So I tried to see how to assemble a planck layout with base and the novelties, and find it hard to visualize. Any chance for a render? I was thinking about the following:
The Assembly Base Kits that have been offered recently have solved this problem by grouping Ergodox and 40's users with their own base kit, so if it fails, the main base kit will still be supported. Check out the Assembly kit in Oblivion V2 for reference.
Edit: Never mind on the 40 bit kit, I just saw your previous post mentioning Space Cadet
R2 left: teal R2 novelty, R2 right: Del
R3 left: R3 orange novelty, R3 right: normal '"
R4 left: R4 red novelty?, R4 right: red super??? (or end, but both not ideal. end would keep the right modifiers all alpha case color though)
R4: ctrl, code, alt, super, red ring novelty, 2u numpad 0, teal R4 novelty, cursors
I have the feeling this will be quite colorful, and I'm not super happy about the enter and 2u. But this would have the "traffic light" on the left modifier side. Anyone came up with something better?
/edit: accented cursor keys could actually be used as lower/raise and return, so the only issue is the missing 2u spacebar
Post by: JPVann on Tue, 12 February 2019, 10:48:38
Post by: iaman on Tue, 12 February 2019, 11:14:00
Nephlok - Thank You for the detailed information, concise answers and professional (yep!) way you've handled this IC and explained things. Looking forward to the GB!
Yeah, this is honestly one of the nicest-run ICs I've seen. Neph is very receptive and communicative. I love this thread.
Post by: geekit on Thu, 14 February 2019, 09:03:55
Any 2U R4 novelties can be used instead - ideally with red legend as well?
Post by: nephlock on Thu, 14 February 2019, 10:19:20
Nephlok - Thank You for the detailed information, concise answers and professional (yep!) way you've handled this IC and explained things. Looking forward to the GB!
Yeah, this is honestly one of the nicest-run ICs I've seen. Neph is very receptive and communicative. I love this thread.
Thank you for the compliments!
Whether I buy or not depends on the price, but I have to agree with some posters that losing the 2U shift is a bit unfortunate.
Any 2U R4 novelties can be used instead - ideally with red legend as well?
Unfortunately the novelties are not going to be added to, due to pricing, but there is a 2uc in the spacebars kit, or always the option to use numpad 0. I realize neither of these are ideal, but in my goal to keep kit prices on the low end some of the less common layouts could not receive accurate legend caps.
Post by: RamenTechMech on Thu, 14 February 2019, 10:45:44
But still looking forward for this keyset! :thumb:
Post by: cldskt on Thu, 14 February 2019, 10:47:31
Oof, that is unfortunate that the Novelties are not being sold :'(I believe he is saying that Novelties kit will be sold as is, with no more addition of keys to it.
But still looking forward for this keyset! :thumb:
Post by: RamenTechMech on Thu, 14 February 2019, 10:51:14
Oof, that is unfortunate that the Novelties are not being sold :'(I believe he is saying that Novelties kit will be sold as is, with no more addition of keys to it.
But still looking forward for this keyset! :thumb:
Ahh sorry, misunderstood what he said. Thank you for clarifying!
Post by: nephlock on Thu, 14 February 2019, 11:00:00
Oof, that is unfortunate that the Novelties are not being sold :'(I believe he is saying that Novelties kit will be sold as is, with no more addition of keys to it.
But still looking forward for this keyset! :thumb:
THIS! Novelties are still going to be offered, definitely.
Post by: rejuvienate on Thu, 14 February 2019, 12:26:43
Post by: nephlock on Thu, 14 February 2019, 12:34:33
Will there be a RAMA collab aluminium keycap?
Not planning on having a RAMA collab on this. We will be working with KeyForge on an artisan collab for those that join in the buy, so stay tuned for updates on that!
Post by: rondg on Thu, 14 February 2019, 16:10:07
Will there be a RAMA collab aluminium keycap?
Not planning on having a RAMA collab on this. We will be working with KeyForge on an artisan collab for those that join in the buy, so stay tuned for updates on that!
Does this mean that the artisan is going to be a raffle?
Post by: geekit on Thu, 14 February 2019, 19:03:47
Unfortunately the novelties are not going to be added to, due to pricing, but there is a 2uc in the spacebars kit, or always the option to use numpad 0. I realize neither of these are ideal, but in my goal to keep kit prices on the low end some of the less common layouts could not receive accurate legend caps.
Thanks for the reply.
So for those who need R4 2U key, we should get the spacebar kit instead of the novelty kit, right?
And speaking of which, do you have any projected price of the kits? Ballpark figures, perhaps?
Post by: nephlock on Thu, 14 February 2019, 20:38:30
Unfortunately the novelties are not going to be added to, due to pricing, but there is a 2uc in the spacebars kit, or always the option to use numpad 0. I realize neither of these are ideal, but in my goal to keep kit prices on the low end some of the less common layouts could not receive accurate legend caps.
Thanks for the reply.
So for those who need R4 2U key, we should get the spacebar kit instead of the novelty kit, right?
And speaking of which, do you have any projected price of the kits? Ballpark figures, perhaps?
That's correct, yes. Pricing on the kits will be coming shortly as well!
Post by: geekit on Fri, 15 February 2019, 00:33:43
That's correct, yes. Pricing on the kits will be coming shortly as well!
Like I don't have enough hard decisions to make :)
Anyway here's hoping that some divine intervention can bring the 2U shift back, and other than that, good luck for the IC/GB!
Post by: Reiep on Fri, 15 February 2019, 00:39:26
Post by: keebitup on Fri, 15 February 2019, 02:42:24
honestly the contrast of the blue is so weak that I missed all alpha colored spacebars in that pack initially. Only when I saw that it contains 11 keys I realized there are alpha colored spacebars in itUnfortunately the novelties are not going to be added to, due to pricing, but there is a 2uc in the spacebars kit, or always the option to use numpad 0. I realize neither of these are ideal, but in my goal to keep kit prices on the low end some of the less common layouts could not receive accurate legend caps.
Thanks for the reply.
So for those who need R4 2U key, we should get the spacebar kit instead of the novelty kit, right?
And speaking of which, do you have any projected price of the kits? Ballpark figures, perhaps?
Post by: chakkii on Fri, 15 February 2019, 07:19:16
Post by: tadityar on Fri, 15 February 2019, 10:41:10
Post by: vafan on Sat, 16 February 2019, 19:55:42
Post by: StrangPrisoner on Sat, 16 February 2019, 23:07:23
I would like to know more about this too. I adore Keyforge artisans but I have only ever won one raffle. It would be incredible if those that join the buy actually have more than a cursory chance at getting a matching artisan from Keyforge.Will there be a RAMA collab aluminium keycap?
Not planning on having a RAMA collab on this. We will be working with KeyForge on an artisan collab for those that join in the buy, so stay tuned for updates on that!
Does this mean that the artisan is going to be a raffle?
Post by: RamenTechMech on Sat, 16 February 2019, 23:49:49
I would like to know more about this too. I adore Keyforge artisans but I have only ever won one raffle. It would be incredible if those that join the buy actually have more than a cursory chance at getting a matching artisan from Keyforge.Will there be a RAMA collab aluminium keycap?
Not planning on having a RAMA collab on this. We will be working with KeyForge on an artisan collab for those that join in the buy, so stay tuned for updates on that!
Does this mean that the artisan is going to be a raffle?
It'll most likely be raffle. It'll probably be whoever purchases a set has a chance to win one.
Post by: vicissitude on Sun, 17 February 2019, 05:56:41
When will the GB start?
Post by: ninjacore on Sun, 17 February 2019, 08:59:31
Post by: toastyAU on Sun, 17 February 2019, 18:37:24
Post by: RDaneelOlivaw on Wed, 20 February 2019, 10:34:42
Post by: Coloneljesus on Thu, 21 February 2019, 12:13:21
Post by: rejuvienate on Sun, 24 February 2019, 04:08:34
Unfortunately the novelties are not going to be added to, due to pricing, but there is a 2uc in the spacebars kit, or always the option to use numpad 0. I realize neither of these are ideal, but in my goal to keep kit prices on the low end some of the less common layouts could not receive accurate legend caps.
Thanks for the reply.
So for those who need R4 2U key, we should get the spacebar kit instead of the novelty kit, right?
And speaking of which, do you have any projected price of the kits? Ballpark figures, perhaps?
That's correct, yes. Pricing on the kits will be coming shortly as well!
any updates on pricing and other info?
Post by: Depresso-the-clown on Mon, 25 February 2019, 14:43:04
Post by: nephlock on Mon, 25 February 2019, 14:44:53
any updates on pricing and other info?
Just updated ;D
Post by: RamenTechMech on Mon, 25 February 2019, 14:57:16
ahem... Very excited for this :cool:
Post by: Furikurichemy on Mon, 25 February 2019, 15:18:34
Post by: vicissitude on Mon, 25 February 2019, 17:25:13
Finally we are only a month away.
Let's wait until 3/25. :thumb:
Post by: Visionaire on Mon, 25 February 2019, 17:26:10
Post by: Dissitesuxba11s on Mon, 25 February 2019, 19:20:12
Do they typically reduce the price if it exceeds a certain MOQ like the ones in MD?
Post by: nephlock on Mon, 25 February 2019, 20:42:26
Oh man, I was just thinking over earlier if I want to get this or the GMK Oblivion set. My wallet will not like the next few months.
Do they typically reduce the price if it exceeds a certain MOQ like the ones in MD?
Typically not on these smaller boutique buys, since it is fairly rare to reach MD levels of kits, but that doesn't mean there arent other ways. Bento is close (or maybe already) at the 500 base kit threshold, and i know that there are plans to add some keys to the kit as a bonus.
Post by: Dissitesuxba11s on Mon, 25 February 2019, 21:10:49
Typically not on these smaller boutique buys, since it is fairly rare to reach MD levels of kits, but that doesn't mean there arent other ways. Bento is close (or maybe already) at the 500 base kit threshold, and i know that there are plans to add some keys to the kit as a bonus.
Oooh that sounds promising. Either way I'm definitely in on this GB.
Post by: goldworms on Tue, 26 February 2019, 01:08:20
Post by: youRFate on Tue, 26 February 2019, 10:36:52
Post by: rejuvienate on Tue, 26 February 2019, 10:52:22
Oh man, I was just thinking over earlier if I want to get this or the GMK Oblivion set. My wallet will not like the next few months.
Do they typically reduce the price if it exceeds a certain MOQ like the ones in MD?
Typically not on these smaller boutique buys, since it is fairly rare to reach MD levels of kits, but that doesn't mean there arent other ways. Bento is close (or maybe already) at the 500 base kit threshold, and i know that there are plans to add some keys to the kit as a bonus.
will the deskmats be sold during the GB period?
Post by: nephlock on Tue, 26 February 2019, 10:58:57
will the deskmats be sold during the GB period?
Yes it will!
Post by: chakkii on Tue, 26 February 2019, 20:49:08
Post by: nephlock on Tue, 26 February 2019, 21:23:13
why no NORDE / International Kit??? :(
Would love to, but massdrop is the only vendor that can even come close enough to a MOQ to get those made. Smaller buys like this aren't able to even come close.
Post by: oldcat on Tue, 26 February 2019, 22:05:21
Post by: vicissitude on Wed, 27 February 2019, 01:25:16
This is another all-buy series.
Good job.
Post by: RamenTechMech on Wed, 27 February 2019, 01:59:30
Makes me wanna get a full size keyboard to display it properly :cool:
Post by: chakkii on Wed, 27 February 2019, 10:12:37
why no NORDE / International Kit??? :(
Would love to, but massdrop is the only vendor that can even come close enough to a MOQ to get those made. Smaller buys like this aren't able to even come close.
I would drop a lot extra for an International / NORDE Kit, any possibility to still get it? :D
Post by: iaman on Wed, 27 February 2019, 10:19:35
Post by: Jaycob_Creighton on Wed, 27 February 2019, 10:22:57
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
Post by: Starius on Wed, 27 February 2019, 10:34:36
This is going to be my first GB, I'm so excited!!!
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
Out of the current ongoing offerings, I don't think you can find a better set to start with!
Of course, once you pop that pringles lid, you won't be able to stop....
Post by: Jaycob_Creighton on Wed, 27 February 2019, 10:45:22
Honestly some of the stuff I'm seeing is amazing. This is going to be a present to myself for quiting cigarettes. Looks like I've found a new thing to spend 300$ on every month!This is going to be my first GB, I'm so excited!!!
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
Out of the current ongoing offerings, I don't think you can find a better set to start with!
Of course, once you pop that pringles lid, you won't be able to stop....
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
Post by: rejuvienate on Wed, 27 February 2019, 10:50:52
Otherwise this set is sickkkkk
Post by: iaman on Wed, 27 February 2019, 10:50:58
This is going to be a present to myself for quiting cigarettes. Looks like I've found a new thing to spend 300$ on every month!
Oh, that's how I'm supposed to find the money to support this hobby :))
Post by: Jaycob_Creighton on Wed, 27 February 2019, 10:52:14
Yes. Sacrifice is the name of the game.This is going to be a present to myself for quiting cigarettes. Looks like I've found a new thing to spend 300$ on every month!
Oh, that's how I'm supposed to find the money to support this hobby :))
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
Post by: chakkii on Wed, 27 February 2019, 11:49:59
Pretty sure you'd have to pay 100x to make it hit the cost at which it is worth GMK producing it, so if that's your idea of "a lot extra" you may be in luck.
Who should I contact, to see how much it would really cost? :) I might consider it :P
Post by: nephlock on Wed, 27 February 2019, 12:08:58
Pretty sure you'd have to pay 100x to make it hit the cost at which it is worth GMK producing it, so if that's your idea of "a lot extra" you may be in luck.
Who should I contact, to see how much it would really cost? :) I might consider it :P
The cost would be... much. Spitballing off of the recent WoB NORDEUK IC (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=99190.0) which is ~50 caps? Taking away what is already covered in this base for UK leaves say, 45ish caps. It would likely be priced around $60 USD at an MOQ of 100... so $6,000. Bear in mind this is by no means an accurate quote, but is an educated guess on my part. It could be lower or higher potentially.
Post by: RamenTechMech on Wed, 27 February 2019, 12:14:51
Post by: mimalik on Wed, 27 February 2019, 14:05:44
Post by: NinjaSquirrel21 on Wed, 27 February 2019, 14:11:03
There should be a SA version of this drop in near future, and soon.Is this for sure or a suggestion? I would be very interested.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Post by: nephlock on Wed, 27 February 2019, 14:14:52
There should be a SA version of this drop in near future, and soon.Is this for sure or a suggestion? I would be very interested.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Just a suggestion. There are currently no plans to take this to SA, but that doesn't mean it wont ever happen. Any future runs of this set will be greatly influenced by the success of this buy.
Post by: Jaxxstatic on Thu, 28 February 2019, 02:29:04
Maybe next round?
Post by: Furikurichemy on Thu, 28 February 2019, 03:37:43
Grail set would be Metropolis with yellow Hangul (Korean) sub legends.
Maybe next round?
I'd love to see more Hangul sub legends in general.
Post by: hottrout on Thu, 28 February 2019, 09:22:49
Post by: nephlock on Thu, 28 February 2019, 16:19:51
A BIG thanks to everyone for all the support and love getting this set to where it is, and a HUGE thanks to Mike at NovelKeys for everything he's done.
I'll see you guys on the 25th! Feel free to reach out if you still have any questions :)
Post by: RamenTechMech on Thu, 28 February 2019, 16:22:11
Post by: TuCZnak on Fri, 01 March 2019, 15:33:17
Post by: iaman on Fri, 01 March 2019, 15:55:36
What's the purpose of the cyan |\ key in base kit R1?I think that's a fairly standard 60/65% layout thing? Probably a HHKB layout thing.
Post by: TuCZnak on Fri, 01 March 2019, 16:00:05
Ah, HHKB, makes sense. Not really standard on 60/65 though, which is why I didn't realize it. Thanks ;-)What's the purpose of the cyan |\ key in base kit R1?I think that's a fairly standard 60/65% layout thing? Probably a HHKB layout thing.
Post by: iaman on Fri, 01 March 2019, 16:05:09
Come to think of it, it's probably only "standard" on the HHKB-inspired 60/65%s :))Ah, HHKB, makes sense. Not really standard on 60/65 though, which is why I didn't realize it. Thanks ;-)What's the purpose of the cyan |\ key in base kit R1?I think that's a fairly standard 60/65% layout thing? Probably a HHKB layout thing.
Post by: azulyf on Fri, 01 March 2019, 19:46:56
Post by: oldcat on Fri, 01 March 2019, 22:34:34
Post by: geekit on Sat, 02 March 2019, 03:28:44
Is it too late to ask for a 1.25 key in space kits? Anyway this set is amazing and and would be a must-buy.
If 1.25 space can still go in, I'd love to have 2u shift key in the main kit ;D
Btw OP, can kindly put the key sizes on the kit pictures? (for the non 1u like 1.25u, 1.5u, 1.75u, etc). Would be easier for a noob like me to see the dimension & possible combinations. Thanks.
Post by: bobdenard on Sat, 02 March 2019, 07:01:17
Post by: Luciqueii on Sat, 02 March 2019, 19:35:49
Post by: iaman on Sat, 02 March 2019, 19:44:26
Hello I am really in to this set, is there any EU vendors you can fix? There is plenty of them I would be glad if you asked them like mykeyboard.eu or candykeys. Also for the desk pads I hope you can fix EU vendor as well :D Looking forward to this.I think mykeyboard.eu is listed as the EU proxy for this, so you should be good. Not sure for the deskmats, though
Post by: mgsickler on Sat, 02 March 2019, 21:48:10
Hello I am really in to this set, is there any EU vendors you can fix? There is plenty of them I would be glad if you asked them like mykeyboard.eu or candykeys. Also for the desk pads I hope you can fix EU vendor as well :D Looking forward to this.I think mykeyboard.eu is listed as the EU proxy for this, so you should be good. Not sure for the deskmats, though
I don’t think there will be an issue with them as a proxy for deskpads as well.
Post by: oldcat on Sat, 02 March 2019, 22:03:36
Hello I am really in to this set, is there any EU vendors you can fix? There is plenty of them I would be glad if you asked them like mykeyboard.eu or candykeys. Also for the desk pads I hope you can fix EU vendor as well :D Looking forward to this.I think mykeyboard.eu is listed as the EU proxy for this, so you should be good. Not sure for the deskmats, though
I don’t think there will be an issue with them as a proxy for deskpads as well.
Happy this is running on Novelkeys!
Hope this drops tomorrow haha. Some wait time to sit through.
Definitely in
Post by: oldcat on Sat, 02 March 2019, 22:04:40
Hello I am really in to this set, is there any EU vendors you can fix? There is plenty of them I would be glad if you asked them like mykeyboard.eu or candykeys. Also for the desk pads I hope you can fix EU vendor as well :D Looking forward to this.I think mykeyboard.eu is listed as the EU proxy for this, so you should be good. Not sure for the deskmats, though
I don’t think there will be an issue with them as a proxy for deskpads as well.
Mike, assuming you will be a vendor for the deskmat as well? It is so dope.
Post by: leexy on Sat, 02 March 2019, 22:56:21
Hello I am really in to this set, is there any EU vendors you can fix? There is plenty of them I would be glad if you asked them like mykeyboard.eu or candykeys. Also for the desk pads I hope you can fix EU vendor as well :D Looking forward to this.I think mykeyboard.eu is listed as the EU proxy for this, so you should be good. Not sure for the deskmats, though
I don’t think there will be an issue with them as a proxy for deskpads as well.
Happy this is running on Novelkeys!
Hope this drops tomorrow haha. Some wait time to sit through.
Definitely in
dropping tmr just for oldcat. all in!
Post by: oldcat on Sun, 03 March 2019, 00:14:51
Hello I am really in to this set, is there any EU vendors you can fix? There is plenty of them I would be glad if you asked them like mykeyboard.eu or candykeys. Also for the desk pads I hope you can fix EU vendor as well :D Looking forward to this.I think mykeyboard.eu is listed as the EU proxy for this, so you should be good. Not sure for the deskmats, though
I don’t think there will be an issue with them as a proxy for deskpads as well.
Happy this is running on Novelkeys!
Hope this drops tomorrow haha. Some wait time to sit through.
Definitely in
dropping tmr just for oldcat. all in!
Haha :)
Post by: geistmate on Sun, 03 March 2019, 22:39:08
Post by: cldskt on Mon, 04 March 2019, 07:19:10
Sorry it's hard to tell the units for the spacebars, but just making sure it's the 2.25 / 2.75 split is included?
1.75, 1.5
2, 2.25, 2.75 (concave)
Post by: nephlock on Mon, 04 March 2019, 14:21:19
Is it too late to ask for a 1.25 key in space kits? Anyway this set is amazing and and would be a must-buy.
If 1.25 space can still go in, I'd love to have 2u shift key in the main kit ;D
Btw OP, can kindly put the key sizes on the kit pictures? (for the non 1u like 1.25u, 1.5u, 1.75u, etc). Would be easier for a noob like me to see the dimension & possible combinations. Thanks.
Those renders are straight from GMK, so they are not easily manipulated, but i will see what i can do!
As of right now, the kits are locked and there will be no new keys added. If we manage to reach 500 MOQ on the base kit we will have the opportunity to put in a few extra keys, how many and which ones hasn't been determined yet.
Post by: oldcat on Tue, 05 March 2019, 00:22:41
Is it too late to ask for a 1.25 key in space kits? Anyway this set is amazing and and would be a must-buy.
If 1.25 space can still go in, I'd love to have 2u shift key in the main kit ;D
Btw OP, can kindly put the key sizes on the kit pictures? (for the non 1u like 1.25u, 1.5u, 1.75u, etc). Would be easier for a noob like me to see the dimension & possible combinations. Thanks.
Those renders are straight from GMK, so they are not easily manipulated, but i will see what i can do!
As of right now, the kits are locked and there will be no new keys added. If we manage to reach 500 MOQ on the base kit we will have the opportunity to put in a few extra keys, how many and which ones hasn't been determined yet.
Easily 500!
If you consider adding novelties, Please consider spreading keys in different rows :))
Post by: geistmate on Tue, 05 March 2019, 21:33:10
Post by: jinhan108 on Wed, 06 March 2019, 23:04:25
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: lolafineday on Thu, 07 March 2019, 00:52:08
Post by: dimo on Thu, 07 March 2019, 16:32:30
Anyone know if this set would look nice in a polycarb case?
I think it would. Since PC is a nice neutral compared to all the colors in this set.
Post by: oldcat on Thu, 07 March 2019, 16:33:57
Anyone know if this set would look nice in a polycarb case?
It should!
I will put on some deep color caps on THINK65 and share pictures when I get the prototype soon. I have quite a few keycap sets to work with.
Post by: lolafineday on Thu, 07 March 2019, 16:35:10
That’s great! Think65 is the board I’m planning on gettingAnyone know if this set would look nice in a polycarb case?
It should!
I will put on some deep color caps on THINK65 and share pictures when I get the prototype soon. I have quite a few keycap sets to work with.
Post by: oldcat on Thu, 07 March 2019, 18:11:22
That’s great! Think65 is the board I’m planning on gettingAnyone know if this set would look nice in a polycarb case?
It should!
I will put on some deep color caps on THINK65 and share pictures when I get the prototype soon. I have quite a few keycap sets to work with.
Thanks bro!!
Post by: iaman on Fri, 08 March 2019, 08:26:01
Post by: geekit on Fri, 08 March 2019, 08:50:28
Also, regarding the key size on the set images, I can help to do a quick overlay if you can PM me the key sizes.
Post by: dantambok on Fri, 08 March 2019, 09:26:42
Post by: mgsickler on Fri, 08 March 2019, 09:28:44
might be a dumb question but.. will this be on english zF too?
Yes it will be.
Post by: jacobavenkraft on Fri, 08 March 2019, 11:48:20
QuoteIs there any harm in offering the 40s kit and cancelling it if there isn’t enough interest? I definitely understand not footing the bill for the unpurchased kits but think it should at least have a chance.
Not inherently. But because a 40's kit would require the commitment to a base kit as well, it can create a predicament. So for example, say the base kit makes MOQ to 260, but 40 of those are people who back out because the 40s kit didn't make it... it takes the base kit back below the MOQ threshold by 30 kits. Leaving those in the base thinking it was going to make it, and then having it not. This would mean either footing the bill for the difference in base kit, or footing the bill to get MOQ on the 40s kit, which might end up being around the same price. My guess is that this is what happened with the GMK DMG buy.
Transparently... by the numbers in the IC survey there is little chance of the 40s kit making it to full MOQ, so it really comes down to if there is enough interest in vendor/proxies/etc. buying the extras. Right now i am talking with a few people to see about the risk on this, and that will determine whether a 40's kit gets added.
Again, hopefully this helps give some context for those in the limbo. Doin what i can peeps.
The Assembly Base Kits that have been offered recently have solved this problem by grouping Ergodox and 40's users with their own base kit, so if it fails, the main base kit will still be supported. Check out the Assembly kit in Oblivion V2 for reference.
Edit: Never mind on the 40 bit kit, I just saw your previous post mentioning Space Cadet
To be fair, Space Cadet is not a great example because it split the market for a 40s kit by providing an Assembly kit for Ergo users and a 40s kit for Ortho users (if it had combined the kits into one, the market would have been closer to 170 (yes, I know some would balk at the higher price necessary when combining those kits, but if it was still lower than the base kit it might be worth it)). Also the GMK DMG Pocket kit could even not cover a standard Planck layout with correct legends (it would need an R2 1u Tab, R3 1u Esc, and a second R4 1u Shift) and it could not cover a standard Preonic layout either (it would need an R1 1u Backspace). So, if you were already faced with having mangled legends on an Ortho why not just go with the base kit and try to get coverage with just that. I am not surprised at all that GMK DMG could not make MOQ.
Post by: oldcat on Fri, 08 March 2019, 12:32:54
Post by: Peripheral Prophet on Sat, 09 March 2019, 12:28:33
Post by: CandyKeys on Sat, 09 March 2019, 12:56:13
Post by: lolafineday on Sat, 09 March 2019, 13:55:19
Will support this as well most likely. Mad set.If your price or shipping fee is lower for me I'll buy from you probably. Gmk metro is a great set it will sell A LOT
Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
Post by: CandyKeys on Sat, 09 March 2019, 14:25:59
Will support this as well most likely. Mad set.If your price or shipping fee is lower for me I'll buy from you probably. Gmk metro is a great set it will sell A LOT
Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
We are not the resellers in the EU, I just wanted to buy the set myself for personal use :) Sorry!
Post by: lolafineday on Sat, 09 March 2019, 15:19:42
Lmfao okWill support this as well most likely. Mad set.If your price or shipping fee is lower for me I'll buy from you probably. Gmk metro is a great set it will sell A LOT
Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
We are not the resellers in the EU, I just wanted to buy the set myself for personal use :) Sorry!
Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
Post by: paulogdm2 on Sun, 10 March 2019, 12:09:44
Post by: oldcat on Sun, 10 March 2019, 12:13:47
I registered just to post that I want to build at least 2 keyboards with Metropolis. Really amazing kit! Congrats!
Good boye!
Post by: piit79 on Sun, 10 March 2019, 14:23:16
We are not the resellers in the EU, I just wanted to buy the set myself for personal use :) Sorry!
Pity! :)
Sent from my OnePlus 6T with a rubbish gimmicky bloody annoying unreliable in-display fingerprint reader using Tapatalk
Post by: oldcat on Fri, 15 March 2019, 10:52:56
Post by: Visionaire on Fri, 15 March 2019, 12:06:29
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/mgVKBxS.jpg)
Oh my...
NICE
Post by: nephlock on Fri, 15 March 2019, 12:07:09
Show Image(https://i.imgur.com/mgVKBxS.jpg)
Love it with that Midnight kit! Awesome!
Post by: Jaycob_Creighton on Fri, 15 March 2019, 12:40:25
DangggggggggggShow Image(https://i.imgur.com/mgVKBxS.jpg)
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
Post by: omgkittiesyay on Fri, 15 March 2019, 14:58:05
Post by: druck21 on Mon, 18 March 2019, 17:38:30
Post by: mgsickler on Tue, 19 March 2019, 06:15:10
I would be allllll over this if the alphas were separate or if the base kit came with midnight mods instead of all the colors. As it stands now it’s way too expensive for me to justify base+midnight for a TKL board. :(
If the Alphas were separate - their price would go up. It's a hard balance to get kits down just right, but I really think that the pricing and kits here are pretty great.
6 days before this GB starts!
Post by: rejuvienate on Tue, 19 March 2019, 06:30:21
What makes the price? The custom colours? margin of profit?
Post by: mgsickler on Tue, 19 March 2019, 06:51:18
Can someone explain how did he keep the price of the base kit so competitive? Why do some other base kits price higher and why are some able to price theirs differently?
What makes the price? The custom colours? margin of profit?
For NovelKeys, at least, we priced this with the aim of hitting 500 MOQ.
Price is determined basically by a couple things
- Number of keys
- Novelties (because Novelties are separate, it helps the cost of the base kit)
- MOQ (For custom colors this starts at 250, for stock, it starts at 150)
Post by: Emir on Tue, 19 March 2019, 07:06:31
Can someone explain how did he keep the price of the base kit so competitive? Why do some other base kits price higher and why are some able to price theirs differently?
What makes the price? The custom colours? margin of profit?
For NovelKeys, at least, we priced this with the aim of hitting 500 MOQ.
Price is determined basically by a couple things
- Number of keys
- Novelties (because Novelties are separate, it helps the cost of the base kit)
- MOQ (For custom colors this starts at 250, for stock, it starts at 150)
Also number of colors affects price.
Metro is sure to sell 500 MOQ, that's what I believe. Gorgeous set! :)
Post by: sagadoi on Tue, 19 March 2019, 07:21:21
Post by: ShadeDream on Tue, 19 March 2019, 07:25:33
I know I'm far too late to the party for this, but I do wish more sets would include R3/R4 PgUp/PgDn. I feel like I talk to people who use this layout, but maybe I'm just weird.
Post by: TuCZnak on Tue, 19 March 2019, 15:40:46
Set looks great!I'd suggest just slapping in novelties. But yes, Home/End/PgUp/PgDn is way more logical than Home/PgUp/PgDn/End in my opinion, which is used mostly for historical reasons? And you also need one less special keycap in the set...
I know I'm far too late to the party for this, but I do wish more sets would include R3/R4 PgUp/PgDn. I feel like I talk to people who use this layout, but maybe I'm just weird.
Post by: nephlock on Tue, 19 March 2019, 16:32:23
Can someone explain how did he keep the price of the base kit so competitive? Why do some other base kits price higher and why are some able to price theirs differently?
As Mike mentioned above, one of the biggest factors in the pricing of the base kit was splitting the novelties, as well as keeping keycap quantity in check. While i would have loved to cover everyones layouts, the hard decisions come down to a balance of common layouts and realistic need.
I know I'm far too late to the party for this, but I do wish more sets would include R3/R4 PgUp/PgDn. I feel like I talk to people who use this layout, but maybe I'm just weird.I'd suggest just slapping in novelties. But yes, Home/End/PgUp/PgDn is way more logical than Home/PgUp/PgDn/End in my opinion, which is used mostly for historical reasons? And you also need one less special keycap in the set...
This is a great example that i wanted to call out, primarily because it exemplifies how i arrived at most of my decisions. What should be covered, and how can it be done efficiently. This does leave a few users with maybe not their ideal caps, but novelties can always be used in a pinch, and it benefits the whole by not bloating the kits.
This keyset also had a unique problem as well.. Every extra modifier key added to the base, HAD to be added to the midnight kit for identical coverage. Adding one, is really adding two. Further pushing costs into a realm i felt like became unapproachable for people.
In the end everyone has different opinions on kitting, and it will always benefit some while punishing others. Huge kits are the cheapest per cap, but force you to pay for a majority of caps you might not use. Splitting the kits like some recently is high $/cap and keeps it cheaper overall for those that need less, but severely deters those who need extended coverage. My personal opinion is more in the middle. I've done my best to keep the kits low and simple, while breaking where i felt it made sense and wouldn't be a major deterrent for those wanting a little extra.
So for all those that might be missing a cap or two from your ideal layout, take solace in the fact that its absence likely helped somebody even get the set to begin with.
That said, thank you again for all those that have supported this set! We're less than a week out and I couldn't be more pleased.
See you on the other side!
-Neph
Post by: dimo on Tue, 19 March 2019, 16:40:40
Wonder how this would look in a yellow case
i’ve been planning this for a yellow case ;]
Post by: oldcat on Tue, 19 March 2019, 16:53:51
Post by: ShadeDream on Tue, 19 March 2019, 18:29:01
I'd suggest just slapping in novelties. But yes, Home/End/PgUp/PgDn is way more logical than Home/PgUp/PgDn/End in my opinion, which is used mostly for historical reasons? And you also need one less special keycap in the set...
Yeah it's not a HUGE issue, but it'd be nice to see in more sets. And it's Esc/Del/PgUp/PgDn ;)
Post by: cldskt on Tue, 19 March 2019, 19:08:22
Can someone explain how did he keep the price of the base kit so competitive? Why do some other base kits price higher and why are some able to price theirs differently?
As Mike mentioned above, one of the biggest factors in the pricing of the base kit was splitting the novelties, as well as keeping keycap quantity in check. While i would have loved to cover everyones layouts, the hard decisions come down to a balance of common layouts and realistic need.I know I'm far too late to the party for this, but I do wish more sets would include R3/R4 PgUp/PgDn. I feel like I talk to people who use this layout, but maybe I'm just weird.I'd suggest just slapping in novelties. But yes, Home/End/PgUp/PgDn is way more logical than Home/PgUp/PgDn/End in my opinion, which is used mostly for historical reasons? And you also need one less special keycap in the set...
This is a great example that i wanted to call out, primarily because it exemplifies how i arrived at most of my decisions. What should be covered, and how can it be done efficiently. This does leave a few users with maybe not their ideal caps, but novelties can always be used in a pinch, and it benefits the whole by not bloating the kits.
This keyset also had a unique problem as well.. Every extra modifier key added to the base, HAD to be added to the midnight kit for identical coverage. Adding one, is really adding two. Further pushing costs into a realm i felt like became unapproachable for people.
In the end everyone has different opinions on kitting, and it will always benefit some while punishing others. Huge kits are the cheapest per cap, but force you to pay for a majority of caps you might not use. Splitting the kits like some recently is high $/cap and keeps it cheaper overall for those that need less, but severely deters those who need extended coverage. My personal opinion is more in the middle. I've done my best to keep the kits low and simple, while breaking where i felt it made sense and wouldn't be a major deterrent for those wanting a little extra.
So for all those that might be missing a cap or two from your ideal layout, take solace in the fact that its absence likely helped somebody even get the set to begin with.
That said, thank you again for all those that have supported this set! We're less than a week out and I couldn't be more pleased.
See you on the other side!
-Neph
Eloquently put.
Speaking of which, any info on the artisans collab yet?
Post by: dantambok on Tue, 19 March 2019, 20:18:33
Post by: jrfhoutx on Tue, 19 March 2019, 20:48:55
RIP wallets
The motto of the hobby.
Post by: jinhan108 on Thu, 21 March 2019, 04:40:00
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: JSaintS on Thu, 21 March 2019, 10:19:41
Post by: mimalik on Thu, 21 March 2019, 10:37:39
RIP wallets
The motto of the hobby.
Even a bigger hole for those not living in USA with exchange rates, shipping and duties/taxes.
Post by: jrfhoutx on Thu, 21 March 2019, 20:42:42
RIP wallets
The motto of the hobby.
Even a bigger hole for those not living in USA with exchange rates, shipping and duties/taxes.
Even if I did have to deal with exchange rates, higher shipping costs, and duties/taxes, it would still be my least expensive hobby...
Post by: sevenseacat on Thu, 21 March 2019, 22:55:03
"Oh! Nice GMK set in a GB for like $130!"
"...wait, that's USD, so it's like $180ish AUD..."
"...wait, then add 10% GST for Australian imports..."
"...wait, then add $15ish for shipping..."
"....bah"
Post by: rowie on Thu, 21 March 2019, 23:58:46
Story of my :p
"Oh! Nice GMK set in a GB for like $130!"
"...wait, that's USD, so it's like $180ish AUD..."
"...wait, then add 10% GST for Australian imports..."
"...wait, then add $15ish for shipping..."
"....bah"
A positive would be at least you are in RAMA territory. :p I had to pay a bunch for my first M60-A and also the recent PBT Heavy Industry extras sold a couple of days ago. I have to say shipping from RAMA I’m pleased with so far since it should arrive tomorrow or by the weekend. Wonder if Metropolis will as well have RAMA caps.
Post by: piit79 on Fri, 22 March 2019, 05:41:40
"...wait, then add 10% GST for Australian imports..."
Imagine having to pay 21% VAT
Plus another $10 for customs declaration services.Remember, there's usually somebody worse off still
But sod it, YOLO. Can't wait!
Sent from my OnePlus 6T with a rubbish gimmicky bloody annoying unreliable in-display fingerprint reader using Tapatalk
Post by: mgsickler on Fri, 22 March 2019, 06:25:04
A couple things I wanted to note real fast for everyone is that promo codes will not work for this GB (and all future GB's). We are pricing things as low as possible, so a promo code may actually cause us to lose money.
Second, the deskpad and keycap GB's will be on separate pages and require separate shipping. The deskpads will most likely be produced before the keycap set and ship out before hand.
Our pages are ready, and will go live at 12am on Monday - they will be on our main page once they go live.
Post by: b4d_tR1p on Fri, 22 March 2019, 07:20:31
(https://45.media.tumblr.com/e4a6b619a2000d002a046981169e2226/tumblr_o5fh3xyF5Y1ty8mi0o8_400.gif)
Post by: mgsickler on Sun, 24 March 2019, 19:54:39
Post by: dantambok on Sun, 24 March 2019, 20:20:14
Post by: nephlock on Sun, 24 March 2019, 20:21:13
MY BODY IS READY
Mine is with you!
Post by: Starius on Sun, 24 March 2019, 20:35:20
Post by: mta on Sun, 24 March 2019, 21:10:41
It's gonna be great. XD
Post by: Dark3ndSoulz on Sun, 24 March 2019, 22:56:02
Post by: nephlock on Sun, 24 March 2019, 22:57:00
Any updates on the keyforge artisan that is being made for this set?
We are working on it currently, and will let everyone know as soon as it is finalized
Post by: oldcat on Sun, 24 March 2019, 23:05:20
Post by: nephlock on Sun, 24 March 2019, 23:11:59
Post by: Starius on Sun, 24 March 2019, 23:18:30
Post by: dantambok on Sun, 24 March 2019, 23:25:07
Post by: AlcoholEnthusiast on Sun, 24 March 2019, 23:45:19
First time I've ordered a set before the GB thread was even out!
Same here, ordered everything but blocks. Very very excited for this one.
Post by: rowie on Sun, 24 March 2019, 23:53:18
Post by: clik_clak on Mon, 25 March 2019, 00:08:52
Not sure if I can combine the matching Deskpad with the keycaps at Novelkeys. I get a pop up window that says consider revising... Hope I can get these all in one order. Well, at least there is still plenty of time.
You can’t, they’ve already said that. They will ship at completely different times.
Post by: rowie on Mon, 25 March 2019, 00:29:50
Not sure if I can combine the matching Deskpad with the keycaps at Novelkeys. I get a pop up window that says consider revising... Hope I can get these all in one order. Well, at least there is still plenty of time.
You can’t, they’ve already said that. They will ship at completely different times.
Thanks! I’m just a casual lurker. Makes sense now why I have to pay shipping twice.
Post by: prototype26 on Mon, 25 March 2019, 03:55:33
Post by: cldskt on Mon, 25 March 2019, 04:10:39
Render base color is really off with the real thing. It's far brighter than what is shown on the color comparison pics. I guess it's safe to assume it will come off as 98% black.My worry as well, since the base color sample in the imgur album looks almost black.
Iirc Nephlock has mentioned that he would ensure the colors stay true to the renders though.
Post by: prototype26 on Mon, 25 March 2019, 04:25:49
Render base color is really off with the real thing. It's far brighter than what is shown on the color comparison pics. I guess it's safe to assume it will come off as 98% black.My worry as well, since the base color sample in the imgur album looks almost black.
Iirc Nephlock has mentioned that he would ensure the colors stay true to the renders though.
Hopefully that's the case, because as it is now I'm not too keen on it being really close to black unless you scrutinize it, then you can tell the difference (barely). Also I haven't been up to date with this thread, is there any news about price drops for reaching certain MOQ?
Post by: spkmic on Mon, 25 March 2019, 04:27:57
Post by: mgsickler on Mon, 25 March 2019, 09:54:52
We have already surpassed what Bento did on the first day on our site. This is an excellent start!
Post by: dantambok on Mon, 25 March 2019, 10:12:36
Post by: heliar_mk on Mon, 25 March 2019, 10:19:27
从我的 iPhone 发送，使用 Tapatalk
Post by: iaman on Mon, 25 March 2019, 10:21:23
As we wait for the GB page to go live, just wanted to give a quick update.Happy to have helped :D
We have already surpassed what Bento did on the first day on our site. This is an excellent start!
Post by: NinjaSquirrel21 on Mon, 25 March 2019, 10:25:55
Post by: RamenTechMech on Mon, 25 March 2019, 10:29:50
Does anybody know if you can pre-order the cable and deskmat from NovelKeys in a single order? Or do those have to be shipped separately like the keycaps?
I would assume they would be shipped separately as well
Post by: Visionaire on Mon, 25 March 2019, 10:30:14
Does anybody know if you can pre-order the cable and deskmat from NovelKeys in a single order? Or do those have to be shipped separately like the keycaps?
I don't think they want you to order anything but the GB in that transaction. Everything else should be ordered in a second transaction.
Post by: deejasaurus on Mon, 25 March 2019, 10:34:44
Post by: oldcat on Mon, 25 March 2019, 10:36:37
Post by: mgsickler on Mon, 25 March 2019, 10:37:13
Does anybody know if you can pre-order the cable and deskmat from NovelKeys in a single order? Or do those have to be shipped separately like the keycaps?Yea these all have to be separate due to the different shipping time each will have. I just don't have the space to be able to keep everything that is pending.
Post by: iaman on Mon, 25 March 2019, 10:37:36
maybe it has been asked, can you add both deskmat and the caps in the same cart?Nope, since they'll be fulfilled separately.
EDIT: Ooops, I got beat to the punch
Post by: tentboy on Mon, 25 March 2019, 10:37:52
Post by: oldcat on Mon, 25 March 2019, 10:38:19
already purchased base and midnight kits :)
thanks!
ALL in guys.
Post by: Jaycob_Creighton on Mon, 25 March 2019, 11:13:15
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
Post by: rowie on Mon, 25 March 2019, 11:59:05
Render base color is really off with the real thing. It's far brighter than what is shown on the color comparison pics. I guess it's safe to assume it will come off as 98% black.My worry as well, since the base color sample in the imgur album looks almost black.
Iirc Nephlock has mentioned that he would ensure the colors stay true to the renders though.
Hopefully that's the case, because as it is now I'm not too keen on it being really close to black unless you scrutinize it, then you can tell the difference (barely). Also I haven't been up to date with this thread, is there any news about price drops for reaching certain MOQ?
I’ll just have to wait for the sampling as I’m not sure how I’d feel if it is closer to black. I like the dark navy and the desk mat looks like a dark navy or is it supposed to look almost black? Hard to tell since resolutions will differ in all screens.
Post by: nephlock on Mon, 25 March 2019, 12:15:24
Render base color is really off with the real thing. It's far brighter than what is shown on the color comparison pics. I guess it's safe to assume it will come off as 98% black.My worry as well, since the base color sample in the imgur album looks almost black.
Iirc Nephlock has mentioned that he would ensure the colors stay true to the renders though.
Hopefully that's the case, because as it is now I'm not too keen on it being really close to black unless you scrutinize it, then you can tell the difference (barely). Also I haven't been up to date with this thread, is there any news about price drops for reaching certain MOQ?
I’ll just have to wait for the sampling as I’m not sure how I’d feel if it is closer to black. I like the dark navy and the desk mat looks like a dark navy or is it supposed to look almost black? Hard to tell since resolutions will differ in all screens.
Part of the reason the swatch appears so dark is because it is VERY small and on a field of bright white causing more contrast. Pulling an image from page 3, you can see the same swatch next to black, and on top of a US passport.
(https://i.imgur.com/311Ii3j.jpg)
For those concerned, I will be matching color to the renders. If a sample comes in black, it fails. If you have to scrutinize to tell the difference, it fails. Assuming it will come out black disregards any control during the sampling phases.
Post by: Emir on Mon, 25 March 2019, 12:59:35
Post by: HungryPillow on Mon, 25 March 2019, 17:17:23
Post by: PiotrMKG on Mon, 25 March 2019, 18:00:42
Ordered all but midnight set, now wait for september.
Post by: BlankeyGotCaps on Mon, 25 March 2019, 18:11:32
Post by: cldskt on Mon, 25 March 2019, 19:08:56
Order in and set... Ended up getting all 4 (Mah wallet) :( . When you finish the artisan where / how will we grab one?
The artisan will be raffled. Meaning, GB participants will have the chance of buying one, so it is more by luck.
Post by: BlankeyGotCaps on Mon, 25 March 2019, 20:40:07
Post by: Kyru on Mon, 25 March 2019, 22:19:39
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
Post by: nephlock on Mon, 25 March 2019, 22:41:25
For the cable, if you chose 3' and coil is the overall cable length 3' or just the straight portion of the cable?
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
The lengths are final lengths. So whatever you order (coil, connector) will be factored into the 3’ and not in addition to. :)
Post by: Starius on Mon, 25 March 2019, 22:55:50
Every coil cable I've personally gotten thus far is too short on the usb mini end, however.
Anyone know if there is a process to order this cable and guarantee adequate length on that end, either before the coil or before an aviator connector?
Post by: oldcat on Tue, 26 March 2019, 00:57:28
(https://i.imgur.com/xmzSPtb.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/aAFqqsx.png)
Post by: piit79 on Tue, 26 March 2019, 03:17:41
Metropolis love (I’m already in the Gb!)A thing of beauty! What board is that?
(Attachment Link)
Sent from my OnePlus 6T with a rubbish gimmicky bloody annoying unreliable in-display fingerprint reader using Tapatalk
Post by: mgsickler on Tue, 26 March 2019, 06:11:41
I'd like to use this Metropolis cable in a TKC1800, which requires a certain amount of length to pass through interior cable routing before exiting the case.
Every coil cable I've personally gotten thus far is too short on the usb mini end, however.
Anyone know if there is a process to order this cable and guarantee adequate length on that end, either before the coil or before an aviator connector?
If you have specific requirements for a cable, hit up Spaztikolon from Spaztik Cables, and he can make a custom tailored one for you. The price will be a little bit higher, but I know that he is willing to do that. :)
Also, just a quick numbers update.
Without updates from the proxies here are our numbers from yesterday.
Base - 101
Midnight - 25
Signs - 69
Blocks - 46
I would imagine we are closer to 150 base with all of the proxies. Because this is performing so well, we are already starting the color matching process. :)
Nephlock really hit a home-run with this set!
Post by: Starius on Tue, 26 March 2019, 08:17:07
I'd like to use this Metropolis cable in a TKC1800, which requires a certain amount of length to pass through interior cable routing before exiting the case.
Every coil cable I've personally gotten thus far is too short on the usb mini end, however.
Anyone know if there is a process to order this cable and guarantee adequate length on that end, either before the coil or before an aviator connector?
If you have specific requirements for a cable, hit up Spaztikolon from Spaztik Cables, and he can make a custom tailored one for you. The price will be a little bit higher, but I know that he is willing to do that. :)
Thank you for the advice, I shall do that!
Post by: oldcat on Tue, 26 March 2019, 09:17:31
Metropolis love (I’m already in the Gb!)A thing of beauty! What board is that?
(Attachment Link)
Sent from my OnePlus 6T with a rubbish gimmicky bloody annoying unreliable in-display fingerprint reader using Tapatalk
Think6.5, you probably seen it, amazing with metropolis :)
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=99634
Post by: nephlock on Tue, 26 March 2019, 11:34:54
To the moooooon!
Post by: oldcat on Tue, 26 March 2019, 12:08:05
I'd like to use this Metropolis cable in a TKC1800, which requires a certain amount of length to pass through interior cable routing before exiting the case.
Every coil cable I've personally gotten thus far is too short on the usb mini end, however.
Anyone know if there is a process to order this cable and guarantee adequate length on that end, either before the coil or before an aviator connector?
If you have specific requirements for a cable, hit up Spaztikolon from Spaztik Cables, and he can make a custom tailored one for you. The price will be a little bit higher, but I know that he is willing to do that. :)
Also, just a quick numbers update.
Without updates from the proxies here are our numbers from yesterday.
Base - 101
Midnight - 25
Signs - 69
Blocks - 46
I would imagine we are closer to 150 base with all of the proxies. Because this is performing so well, we are already starting the color matching process. :)
Nephlock really hit a home-run with this set!
amazing
Post by: lun0r on Wed, 27 March 2019, 10:27:41
Great Set, thank you very much for making the Base Kit widely compatible !
With most other sets i have to order at least 1 Special set to get my Keys together.
Now i have time until the End of the GB to scratch together another 70 € to get the Signs :D
Greets from Germany
Post by: nmd on Wed, 27 March 2019, 22:01:39
I haven't been here in forever, but I saw this on reddit, and totally had to log back in after so many years lol.
This is the best set I've ever seen, but my god is it way too expensive to get the extras. :( It sucks, I want it so bad but I'll have to wait until it's on the aftermarket and twice the price. /cry
It's like the only one that actually made me want to spend a ton on a keyset. So pretty.
Post by: ChitownM2 on Fri, 29 March 2019, 22:19:43
Post by: DetectiveNio on Wed, 03 April 2019, 15:55:31
OOPS shouldve posted over at the GB post
Post by: nephlock on Wed, 03 April 2019, 16:14:29
Any updates on the collab KF artisan? Missed the wavez artisan cuz they did it at the beginning of group buy :(
OOPS shouldve posted over at the GB post
No worries! KF Has been delayed with his last sale, but ours are definitely coming. Our raffle will be done throughout the entire buying window though, so you can rest easy.
Will update you guys as soon as I have something :)
Post by: vonswoopington on Wed, 03 April 2019, 16:26:10
Any updates on the collab KF artisan? Missed the wavez artisan cuz they did it at the beginning of group buy :(
OOPS shouldve posted over at the GB post
No worries! KF Has been delayed with his last sale, but ours are definitely coming. Our raffle will be done throughout the entire buying window though, so you can rest easy.
Will update you guys as soon as I have something :)
Awesome this is how it should be done :) . I'll be joining this week!
Post by: hottrout on Fri, 05 April 2019, 07:55:07
Post by: psvntrm on Fri, 05 April 2019, 21:36:21
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Hokabuki on Fri, 05 April 2019, 22:58:21
I dont know if i should get this or gmk wabezI was thinking same but might have to bite the bullet and do both. Love that the bum pad is included in the base kit for Metropolis.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: piit79 on Sat, 06 April 2019, 01:18:35
...bum pad...
Great typo :-D
Sent from my OnePlus 6T with a rubbish gimmicky bloody annoying unreliable in-display fingerprint reader using Tapatalk
Post by: psvntrm on Sat, 06 April 2019, 03:28:39
I dont know if i should get this or gmk wabezI was thinking same but might have to bite the bullet and do both. Love that the bum pad is included in the base kit for Metropolis.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Going to be $600 for both
Post by: juliandoucette on Tue, 09 April 2019, 11:07:30
Sorry for the basic question (I'm new to custom key caps).
Will one of the spacebars in the block kit fit a Corsair K63?
Post by: Jaycob_Creighton on Tue, 09 April 2019, 15:09:57
Hello,In short yes, a space bar in the block set will fit your board (the space bar on the base set will as well), however your board has a non-standard bottom row so getting the control/alt/win/fn key to work together will be a problem.
Sorry for the basic question (I'm new to custom key caps).
Will one of the spacebars in the block kit fit a Corsair K63?
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
Post by: paulogdm2 on Tue, 09 April 2019, 15:52:20
1x Deskmat
1x Cable 7" w/ Coil
2x Base
1x Midnight
1x Symbols
1x Blocks
Great way to start the hobby if you ask me!
Post by: hottrout on Fri, 26 July 2019, 09:47:45
Post by: gt1989 on Fri, 26 July 2019, 10:02:07
Any update on this?
you might want to check out the GB thread. https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=99962.0;topicseen
Post by: hottrout on Fri, 26 July 2019, 11:00:28