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geekhack Marketplace => Interest Checks => Topic started by: dvorcol on Wed, 09 September 2015, 09:21:15

Title: [IC] Full-size ortholinear keyboards?
Post by: dvorcol on Wed, 09 September 2015, 09:21:15: Anyone else looking for a full-size (or TKL) ortholinear mechanical keyboard? A standard with just one small change - align the staggered rows:
[attachimg=1]

WASD would consider making them if there is enough customer interest. I started a Massdrop poll today to take the market pulse, if you are interested please cast your vote: https://www.massdrop.com/vote/Full-size-and-TKL-ortholinear-layouts?mode=guest_open
Title: Re: [IC] Full-size ortholinear keyboards?
Post by: Data on Wed, 09 September 2015, 11:03:13: This is cool. I'd almost prefer a true columnar layout, though. Something like this:

(http://i.imgur.com/UKOI8is.png)
(6u spacebar)

(http://i.imgur.com/EXWUWuw.png)
(7u spacebar)

But I know it would require a lot of oddball key sizes, so it will probably never happen for that reason alone. :(
Title: Re: [IC] Full-size ortholinear keyboards?
Post by: maxjdewaele on Fri, 11 September 2015, 17:30:01: Would love to try this... Voted
Title: Re: [IC] Full-size ortholinear keyboards?
Post by: njbair on Fri, 11 September 2015, 20:16:25: I have a Planck coming soon. Until then I won't know what I think of matrix-style layouts. But assuming I like it, this idea intrigues me.
Title: Re: [IC] Full-size ortholinear keyboards?
Post by: trenzafeeds on Fri, 11 September 2015, 21:12:47: I'd be very interested, but I'm not so psyched about doing it through WASD.
Title: Re: [IC] Full-size ortholinear keyboards?
Post by: dvorcol on Sun, 13 September 2015, 19:55:43: Data: I agree with you, a full matrix layout would be ideal. :thumb: Your layouts look great, except I'd move your shift row one key to the left to keep standard fingering. And eliminate the gap between the number row and the F row. I agree my layout is not ideal from a visual standpoint. I was trying to maximize production feasibility by minimizing the change points to a current model: same housing and components with a new PCB and a new backplate. Even if someone wanted a custom set of key caps, only the three yellow keys would be in addition to a standard 104-key set. And all three yellow key shapes are typical for their rows (1x1 in R4 and R3, 1x1.25 in R1). Your two layouts are one column narrower than the typical 104-key, and as you pointed out would require many custom keys.

Maxjdewaele: Thanks for the vote! Which did you vote for, full-size or TKL? ANSI or ISO?

njbair: I love the look of the Planck, but want all the keys. Even a TKL is not enough for me, let alone a 40%. Having to shift between layers to type numbers and special characters would drive me crazy when working in Excel.

trenzafeeds: Can you recommend another mechanical keyboard manufacturer who might be interested?
Title: Re: [IC] Full-size ortholinear keyboards?
Post by: Data on Sun, 13 September 2015, 20:24:02: Quote from: dvorcol on Sun, 13 September 2015, 19:55:43
Data: I agree with you, a full matrix layout would be ideal. :thumb: Your layouts look great, except I'd move your shift row one key to the left to keep standard fingering. And eliminate the gap between the number row and the F row. I agree my layout is not ideal from a visual standpoint. I was trying to maximize production feasibility by minimizing the change points to a current model: same housing and components with a new PCB and a new backplate. Even if someone wanted a custom set of key caps, only the three yellow keys would be in addition to a standard 104-key set. And all three yellow key shapes are typical for their rows (1x1 in R4 and R3, 1x1.25 in R1). Your two layouts are one column narrower than the typical 104-key, and as you pointed out would require many custom keys.

Having used the Atomic layout for a couple of months, I can confidently say the only thing I miss is a nice fat left shift. I left-shift a lot, and that key is just too small on the Atomic/Planck. Plus if that row does move left one column to line up the alphas it would give you a 3u right shift -- that's just silly. So that's kind of why I put the 2, 2u shifts where they are... among other reasons.

It wasn't a serious request, anyway. Just thinking out loud. Hope you can get something going. :)
Title: Re: [IC] Full-size ortholinear keyboards?
Post by: dvorcol on Sun, 13 September 2015, 23:16:24: Quote from: Data on Sun, 13 September 2015, 20:24:02
Having used the Atomic layout for a couple of months, I can confidently say the only thing I miss is a nice fat left shift. I left-shift a lot, and that key is just too small on the Atomic/Planck. Plus if that row does move left one column to line up the alphas it would give you a 3u right shift -- that's just silly. So that's kind of why I put the 2, 2u shifts where they are... among other reasons.

I agree that a 1x1 left shift is too narrow. I'm showing a 1x1.25 because that is a common R1 key cap size. I just found WASD sells a blank R1 1x1.75 (same width as the R2 caps lock), although in limited colors. Any idea if others sell 1.75u R1 key caps?

Thinking out loud with you: The whole left column could be 1x1.5 (standard tab) or even 1x1.75 (standard caps lock) without need for stabilizers. Make the right shift 1x2 (same as TenKey zero), and fill in the void using a 2x1 right control (same as TenKey enter). This eliminates row stagger and maintains standard fingering. Any thoughts?
Title: Re: [IC] Full-size ortholinear keyboards?
Post by: Data on Mon, 14 September 2015, 11:05:08: Is this what you mean?

(http://i.imgur.com/sdeaIOE.png)

I think it could work. This layout requires 7 blanks or customs (in red), but they are fairly popular blank sizes (common in ErgoDox kits) so they shouldn't be hard to find or expensive to produce, relatively speaking. It also requires 5 keys and a 7u spacebar found in any Tsangan kit. The bottom row is a compromise, however, since it deviates from true columnar.

This one is a bit more columnar but compromises with additional non-standard key caps.

(http://i.imgur.com/WwzuBBl.png)

And here's one with your tall CTRL key.

(http://i.imgur.com/ugyx7IZ.png)

^ This one requires 8 custom/blanks and only 2 from a Tsangan (plus a new stabilizer location!), so it's a good compromise on key caps but man... it looks funky. :P
Title: Re: [IC] Full-size ortholinear keyboards?
Post by: spectre on Mon, 14 September 2015, 11:07:14: Behold the glory of a true full size ortholinear keyboard
(https://www.keychatter.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/keychatter_2015-03-27_11-47-07.jpg)
Title: Re: [IC] Full-size ortholinear keyboards?
Post by: Data on Mon, 14 September 2015, 11:28:07: Quote from: spectre on Mon, 14 September 2015, 11:07:14
Behold the glory of a true full size ortholinear keyboard
Show Image
(https://www.keychatter.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/keychatter_2015-03-27_11-47-07.jpg)

Aaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The facemelting awesomeness is too much for any mortal! Put it away! Put it away!

:)

Man, it seems like anything is possible when you paint it with Dolch colors. :))

(http://i.imgur.com/dMpxhUi.png)
Title: Re: [IC] Full-size ortholinear keyboards?
Post by: trenzafeeds on Mon, 14 September 2015, 11:30:55: It would be interesting to see if you could either fit a semblance of a standard bottom row on, or mess with it to accommodate a keycap set plank kit. It would be a huge plus to easily put aftermarket cap sets on this.
Title: Re: [IC] Full-size ortholinear keyboards?
Post by: dvorcol on Mon, 14 September 2015, 20:20:59: Quote from: trenzafeeds on Mon, 14 September 2015, 11:30:55
It would be interesting to see if you could either fit a semblance of a standard bottom row on, or mess with it to accommodate a keycap set plank kit. It would be a huge plus to easily put aftermarket cap sets on this.

Using standard keycaps was one of my original goals. Both my bottom row and my caps/enter row are 100% standard including switch position. The white keycaps in the other three rows are completely standard. Even the three yellow keys are standard sizes for their rows. I want ortholinear for touchtyping purposes, which applies to the three longest fingers on each hand. These six fingers rarely touch the bottom row, so I'm fine keeping it standard.
Title: Re: [IC] Full-size ortholinear keyboards?
Post by: SL89 on Mon, 14 September 2015, 20:24:43: +1 for fullsize ortholinear

+1 for WASD

tho I would MUCH prefer to involve the JackHumbert / Ortholinear Keyboard project.
Title: Re: [IC] Full-size ortholinear keyboards?
Post by: trenzafeeds on Tue, 15 September 2015, 05:38:35: Quote from: SL89 on Mon, 14 September 2015, 20:24:43
tho I would MUCH prefer to involve the JackHumbert / Ortholinear Keyboard project.
I agree, he's a great guy to work with so if he has the means to pull off something like this that shouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: [IC] Full-size ortholinear keyboards?
Post by: Data on Tue, 15 September 2015, 10:03:41: Quote from: SL89 on Mon, 14 September 2015, 20:24:43
tho I would MUCH prefer to involve the JackHumbert / Ortholinear Keyboard project.

Thirded. Jack already has a ton of experience in this space.
Title: Re: [IC] Full-size ortholinear keyboards?
Post by: SL89 on Tue, 15 September 2015, 10:06:01: I've talked to him about 122 / battleship sized projects before but only in a cursory fashion. But he certainly has relations with mass drop as well. Has anyone asked him about this project?
Title: Re: [IC] Full-size ortholinear keyboards?
Post by: menuhin on Tue, 06 September 2016, 07:55:38: +1 for 5-row ortholinear keyboard.

Here's the layout the I prefer:
(https://i.warosu.org/data/g/img/0470/15/1426360949383.png)

Can I actually get the PCB and the case created by someone out there?
Title: Re: [IC] Full-size ortholinear keyboards?
Post by: AMongoose on Tue, 06 September 2016, 08:00:21: Cool idea but I'm not a fan of the 1u backspace tho.