Author Topic: WTF indeed!  (Read 5673 times)

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Offline iMav

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« on: Sat, 15 December 2007, 09:17:24 »
The long-time Mac community contributor, Mark Pilgrim, who very publicly switched to Linux back in 2006, recently posted THIS on his blog.

The self-proclaimed ratpoison user now uses the nasty????

Offline xsphat

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« Reply #1 on: Sat, 15 December 2007, 11:28:19 »
I don't get it.

Offline ashort

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« Reply #2 on: Sat, 15 December 2007, 12:00:18 »
me neither
Andrew
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Offline karlito

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« Reply #3 on: Sat, 15 December 2007, 12:45:08 »
you finally realized apple is more evil than microsoft? and that steve jobs is the greatest person ever at convincing people to buy overpriced stupid ****? and they keep coming back for more.

Offline karlito

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« Reply #4 on: Sat, 15 December 2007, 12:47:55 »
oh and i always wondered WhyTF anyone ever ever ever used PDFs too. i never liked pdf and acrocrap reader always made me want to kill someone. pdf is the bane of the internet.

Offline ashort

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« Reply #5 on: Sat, 15 December 2007, 12:56:29 »
Sidestepping the not-so-subtle Apple troll for a second...

PDF is viewed as portable and somewhat secure.  That is, I can send a pdf to anyone with the understanding that it can't be changed, so I know that the content I provide will remain that same content.  Of course, we all know this to be false, but that's the general view of the pdf format.
Andrew
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Offline iMav

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« Reply #6 on: Sat, 15 December 2007, 14:22:37 »
Quote from: xsphat
I don't get it.

Mark abandons the Mac platform for linux and the open source community in a VERY public manner (with MUCH condemnation of proprietary software, standards, etc)...and is then observed a year and a half later posting about his recent escapades installing Adobe Acrobat Reader on the nasty.

At the very least, curious...at most, amazingly hypocritical.

Discuss.  ;)

I'm indifferent
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 15 December 2007, 19:22:28 »
I have a mac which I use only as a terminal into my Linux machine.  Here are the positives:

1) No viruses (that we know of).  Though perhaps this is due to the platform's lack of popularity as much as Unix security.  If I were a bot writer, I wouldn't even bother with macs.
2) Sweet industrial design.
3) Unix underpinnings.
4) Though I find it annoying, the use of meta keys in preference to Ctrl is the right thing. Linux and Windows have it wrong.
5) Fast boot times.

What I don't like:
1) Despite making their own hardware and software, there are still lots of hardware problems.  I don't need to enumerate them all.  Just skim through the forums.  Though in my case (G4 Mac Mini), the DVI output is weak.  When connecting via a VGA adapter, the picture is very dark. The DVI interface fails to work with many monitors. I had to buy SwitchResX to get mine to work.  The HDD has that incessant head parking problem.  Worst of all, these problems are still there with new hardware almost 3 years on.
2) I'm not much of a gamer, but gaming does not appear to be the Mac's strong point.  Unless you count virtualization, in which case you need to shell out $$ for a windows license.
3) I'm not convinced by the UI.  Resizing windows only from one corner. Weird window management - one really does need Expose to get around. Look-and-feel is not consistent across applications (mainly with older, less popular programs, but still).
4) Shortcuts are not consistent across different programs.
5) Compatibility with 3rd-party H/W is much worse.  You really have to make sure that the manufacturer has Mac drivers.  With Windows it's a given.
6) Not sure about this one, since I've only ever run Tiger, but why do you need to update your application to a new version, when updating OS X?  Windows can run some ancient programs without trouble.
7) If you need something, you have to pay for it.  Even if it's a one-off utility.
8) Mouse cursor affected by some sort of screen molasses.
9) Finally, and this one just kills the Mac for me, the blurry smudgy font rendering.  I know that it's the more correct method and it's  WYSISWYG, but until we have 300 dpi screens, Linux and Windows are way more readable.

Perhaps if I used my Mac for more i.e. was one of those creative people in the TV ads: editing videos and photos and... running garage band, I'd have more positives.  Right now I try to use mainly Linux. It's far safer than Windows, and has better UI and font rendering than OS X (IMHO).

Offline iMav

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« Reply #8 on: Sun, 16 December 2007, 00:07:38 »
I had zero interest in Macs prior to OS X.  I spent several years as a UNIX admin and still do the majority of my work (as a network security person) with UNIX and linux.  My kids were the main reason I switched the family from linux to OS X.  There is only so much you can tolerate of rolling the dice with WINE and the latest game, educational software, etc my kids wanted.  Couple that with the fact that they use Macs exclusively in school, and it was a no-brainer.  And the wife will run pretty much anything I put in front of her as long as I put in the requisite training time.  

I freely admit to liking some of OS X's eye candy.  However, since Starcraft 2 hasn't been released yet, I'd have to say that the biggest reason I have a Mac right now is because of my iPhone.

Offline xsphat

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« Reply #9 on: Sun, 16 December 2007, 00:52:40 »
Macs are all I've ever owned. My first computer was a blue and white G3 PowerMac I bought used with 9.2 and 10.1 installed. So, Mac OS X is all I have ever had. See why I am good in Mac and stupid in everything else?

Offline ashort

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« Reply #10 on: Sun, 16 December 2007, 10:30:48 »
Quote from: iMav
I freely admit to liking some of OS X's eye candy.  However, since Starcraft 2 hasn't been released yet, I'd have to say that the biggest reason I have a Mac right now is because of my iPhone.


What was your biggest reason for owning a mac for personal use before you bought your iPhone last month?
Andrew
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Offline iMav

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« Reply #11 on: Sun, 16 December 2007, 13:59:20 »
Quote from: ashort
What was your biggest reason for owning a mac for personal use before you bought your iPhone last month?

Well, I had a linux-based thinkpad with me in Iraq...Prior to that, it was so I could more easily support the family (by being intimately familiar as a day-to-day user).  Plus, I simply LIKE it.   The UI is quite functional plus I have all the UNIX goodness I want/need.

Offline ashort

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« Reply #12 on: Mon, 17 December 2007, 06:57:38 »
It almost sounds like you are apologizing to this group for being a Mac user.  This isnt' the "everyone should have a Mac" attitude that I've seen in the past.

You were quite the avid Macbook user before you went to Iraq.
Andrew
{ KBC Poker - brown | Filco Majestouch - brown | Dell AT101W | Cherry G84-4100 }

Offline iMav

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WTF indeed!
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 17 December 2007, 08:35:28 »
Quote from: ashort
It almost sounds like you are apologizing to this group for being a Mac user.  This isnt' the "everyone should have a Mac" attitude that I've seen in the past.

You were quite the avid Macbook user before you went to Iraq.

Why would I apologize?  I am quite smitten with OS X.  You can't beat being able to easily run all your favorite open source tools along side Photoshop.  I think you are reading something into my posts that is not there.  Are you feeling insecure about your own Mac ownership?  ;)

If anything, I am disappointed with the MBP I have.  I chose it over the MacBook due to it being able to drive my new 30" display and its better gaming capabilities (due to its discrete graphics).  But, bottom line, I don't like the look of it, the aluminum is flimsy (at least the top case), and I much prefer the keyboard on the MacBook (although plugging my HHKB and Trackman in is always preferable).  However, the MacBook still loses out to my Thinkpad X60s as far as portability is concerned.  I have to say that the X60s is still my favorite laptop to date...even post-MBP purchase.  But running out the door, looking to grab a laptop to take with me...the MacBook would at least give the Thinkpad a run for its money.  

I just need to accept my MBP for what it is....a significantly cheaper desktop option to the Mac Pro for someone looking to drive an external display requiring dual-link DVI.  :)

Although you DO hit on something that I've noticed quite a bit since I've been back.  There is a big "guilty pleasure" aspect to Mac ownership that I've noticed among the UNIX geeks and security professionals I work with every day.   I work at a fairly well-known security company...Among other things, we provide managed security services that are 100% linux-based.  But almost everyone owns at least one modern-day Mac.  When I ask someone new about their Mac (typically a MacBook their brought in from home), I always get an apologetic response...something like, "yeah, well...it was a good deal and I just use the command line anyway".  It's pretty funny.

Offline ashort

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« Reply #14 on: Mon, 17 December 2007, 09:11:41 »
Quote from: iMav
Why would I apologize?

I HAVE NO IDEA!

Quote from: iMav
I am quite smitten with OS X.  You can't beat being able to easily run all your favorite open source tools along side Photoshop.

That's more like it.

Quote from: iMav
I think you are reading something into my posts that is not there.

No, I think you your comments above were very clearly putting you in the ranks of "guilty pleasure Mac user", ala the co-workers you describe.  You all but stated that if not for your kids' school and your iPhone, you'd have no solid reason to own a Mac.  That's a far reach from being smitten with it.  I'm just setting the record straight.

I'm still loving my iMac (fan issue not-withstanding) and still planning on buying second one soon, still hoping that I get Leopard for Christmas for this one (meaning that holding out from buying it wasn't completely fruitless).  Still don't like either the apple keyboard (even the new cool looking ones) or the mighty mouse.  The mighty mouse is a neat experiment of the kind of thing you can do in a mouse, but I just couldn't get into it enough and I had to replace it with the trackman marble.  ESPECIALLY when the kids were complaining about the lack of a "Proper mouse" on the computer I left them with.  =-D  I was not upset at all about reclaiming the Trackman.

Having said that, Apple is the kind of company that can get away with the mighty mouse experiment.  Neat Idea guys...let's move on.  Maybe Jobs can encouraage Logitech to OEM a white version of the trackman marble that uses bluetooth.

Hoping against hope...
Andrew
{ KBC Poker - brown | Filco Majestouch - brown | Dell AT101W | Cherry G84-4100 }

Offline iMav

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WTF indeed!
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 17 December 2007, 09:15:28 »
OTOH, these are pretty exciting times for linux.  In many ways, linux has "won".  Your DVR's run linux.  Your broadband routers run linux.  Most of your favorite websites are hosted on linux (including this one, BTW).  Linux and the internet have grown up together (thanks in no small part to Apache).  The linux revolution has become the linux establishment.  

Hardware OEM's like Lenovo and Dell sell linux-loaded laptops and desktops now to the masses.  Companies like HP, Gateway, Sony, etc won't be far behind.  Cellphones based on linux are just getting started...but their adoption is inevitable.  (there is simply too much money to be made with open phones).  

My eight year old can install distro's such as Ubuntu and PCLinuxOS with ZERO assistance from me.  (That is not the case with the nasty nor OS X)

Offline xsphat

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« Reply #16 on: Mon, 17 December 2007, 09:24:19 »
People people people ...

Let go of the stigma Mac has placed on it, it's just a computer, it's not a pact with Satan or anything. I have a Mac because that's all I know and the Mac has yet to let me down while my [the nasty] user friends have all these problems and then Vista came out, waiting to suck balls, and they talk smack about Mac owners while their computers intermittently crash so hard they loose data. That doesn't make Macs or Mac users superior, my Linux friends don't loose their data either, so this makes [the nasty] inferior.

And these are just my stories about it - there are plenty of [the nasty] users out there who the OS works just fine for, like grandparents.

Let it go, Windows users don't like Macs because they used to come in colors consistent with the gay flag and they say that their are NO (as in not one in the history of the planet, ever) No games made for Mac. The irony of this is that games were on Apple machines before Gates stole his first bit of code for Windows. At least Jobs bought his OS ...

Offline iMav

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« Reply #17 on: Mon, 17 December 2007, 09:25:19 »
Quote from: ashort
You all but stated that if not for your kids' school and your iPhone, you'd have no solid reason to own a Mac.  That's a far reach from being smitten with it.  I'm just setting the record straight.

Bottom line, it was my kids clamoring for software I couldn't get running under WINE+linux, my refusal to install the nasty for them, and the (THEN) recent release of the incredibly affordable G4 Mac mini.  I didn't become smitten with OS X (Panther, at the time) until I had it in my hands.  :)

Offline karlito

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« Reply #18 on: Mon, 17 December 2007, 23:27:35 »
Windows XP FTW!!!

I have never in my life had a virus on any of my PCs. I run my pc for a week without rebooting it or it crashing. Point is all problems w/ Window XP are PEBKECs or crappy software which i blame on users anyways for installing it :P.

As for games... uhhh in case you hadn't notice Microsoft bought all the good game companies and converted their games to directX...  What really scares the piss out of me is now id software has switch their graphics path to directx for windows... It seems blizzard is the only one still using openGL.

I give all people who purchase a computer from apple crap because you are paying a retarded premium for the same hardware.

Build your own computer install OS X and you wont get crap from me :)

Offline fkeidjn

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« Reply #19 on: Mon, 17 December 2007, 23:48:29 »
Like what they say, "Windows eXPired..."

I use Windows XP too, and don't mean too much offense, but anything beyond XP would be (and is as the moment) crap, unless we have a Windows PX (PhoeniX - you know how Microsoft would bite off anything, even Mac name like Leopard), notice the symbolism in the phoenix?
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Offline xsphat

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« Reply #20 on: Mon, 17 December 2007, 23:53:18 »
Didn't you hear, EA just announced that they are going to port all their games to Mac.

Offline karlito

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« Reply #21 on: Tue, 18 December 2007, 00:07:05 »
Quote from: xsphat
Didn't you hear, EA just announced that they are going to port all their games to Mac.


I feel sorry for any mac user who buys crap from EA.  EA releases the buggiest crap ever their games will most likely crash your mac.  I've been boycotting that crap company since Battlefield Vietnam (2004).  Most "hardcore" gamers i know are doing the same (save for the few battlefield 2 nuts but I bet they'll all switch to COD4 or ETQW).

EA has done more damage to games than Microsoft and that's saying a lot.

Offline xsphat

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« Reply #22 on: Tue, 18 December 2007, 00:18:50 »
I should really shut up here, I am the guy that bought a copy of the nasty for games and now I NEVER play any, not on a console, Mac or PC.

Offline karlito

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« Reply #23 on: Tue, 18 December 2007, 00:32:36 »
hey as long as you bought an OEM version it's only $100 bucks so no harm done really. (FYI incase u didnt i purchase all my computer parts and windows xp copies from http://www.newegg.com).  OEM is the only way to go :)

As for games I played w/ the nintendo WII this weekend at a friends house it's pretty darn fun i bet even your girl could get into it. however, you'll just have to wait until nintendo can actually make enough to meet demand.

Offline xsphat

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« Reply #24 on: Tue, 18 December 2007, 00:41:20 »
I found an OEM copy of XP Pro for $86 last year and grabbed it. It was cheap, but now that's how I feel ...