Author Topic: This is pathetic and sad  (Read 3967 times)

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Offline ashort

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This is pathetic and sad
« on: Sat, 05 July 2008, 09:15:30 »
I want an iPhone, just like the rest of the world.

What I want more than an iPhone though, is a Kindle.  This incredible novelty is really growing on me.  I love the idea of moving a lot of my library to a paper-like electronic medium.
Andrew
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Offline iMav

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This is pathetic and sad
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 05 July 2008, 09:25:01 »
Quote from: ashort;6363
What I want more than an iPhone though, is a Kindle.  This incredible novelty is really growing on me.  I love the idea of moving a lot of my library to a paper-like electronic medium.
Rumor has it, if you send Amazon money, they will actually send you a Kindle RIGHT TO YOUR HOME!  :)

Seriously, I don't "get" the Kindle.  The marketing spin Amazon is jamming down your throat every time you visit their site is funny though.  It's not a low-quality B&W display, it's a "revolutionary display that reads like real paper!".  ;)

"Unlike WiFi, Kindle utilizes the same high-speed data network (EVDO) as advanced cell phones—so you never have to locate a hotspot."

For $360, you think they could include wifi as well.  Funny how they spin 3g-only (and the lack of wifi) as a bonus.  However, if you have spotty cell coverage in your home, you'll soon be frustrated.  "DANG IT!  I've got wifi AND a computer sitting right here, but I can't download a fricking thing to my Kindle because it lacks wifi and I am unable to transfer from my computer as well..."

I've had $200 PDA's with more functionality (and connectivity options)...They were ALSO smaller AND had more storage.  (and were great displays to read from...even offering, COLOR!)

Offline bhtooefr

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This is pathetic and sad
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 05 July 2008, 09:35:27 »
To be fair, it is e-ink.

But, the Kindle won't be worth it until someone hacks it into an EVDO router. ;)

Offline iMav

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This is pathetic and sad
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 05 July 2008, 09:49:13 »
I'll have to browse the selections of books, magazines, etc.  Available content is, after all, what it boils down to.

One thing that would make me nervous if I was a potential Kindle buyer is all the advertising Amazon is doing.  Seems a bit over the top, as if sales are lower than expected and they are a bit desperate.  But I could certainly be incorrect in that observation.

Offline iMav

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« Reply #4 on: Sat, 05 July 2008, 10:01:36 »
As a quick check to see if the Kindle would have the type of e-books I would find useful to have for quick reference, I searched the available Kindle book database for the following:

 - Any Regular Expressions book
 - sed and awk references
 - iptables reference
 - decent python references

Pretty much nothing available.  And, the most unforgivable, NONE of the TCP/IP Illustrated books are available!

Heck, NONE of the O'Reilly books are available.

Offline ashort

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« Reply #5 on: Sat, 05 July 2008, 10:22:58 »
Quote from: iMav;6364
Rumor has it, if you send Amazon money, they will actually send you a Kindle RIGHT TO YOUR HOME!  :)
$360 is why I haven't.  EVDO: cellular device as well as cellular activation built into the price...somewhere.  This is great application of EVDO tech, btw.  It's a harbinger of things to come.  802.11 has never been ubiquitous and we need to stop pretending that it can be, at least in it's current implementation.

Quote
It's not a low-quality B&W display, it's a "revolutionary display that reads like real paper!".  ;)
Of course the intent is to make it "paper-like".  It's not backlit, you read it in natural light.  Very much reduces eyestrain because you are supposed to (duh!) read on it for hours and hours.  The LCD technology is also very low on power consumption when idle.  The pixels are either black or white, and it takes a momentary charge to change a white pixel to black, or a black pixel to white.  It takes no power to maintain the screen state.  Unlike a standard LCD that requires constant charge to maintain anything other than dead black (which I don't think a powered on LCD will do anyway).  Once it draws the screen, it stops drawing power for the screen.  In that respect, the screen is very high-tech.

Quote
For $360, you think they could include wifi as well.  Funny how they spin 3g-only (and the lack of wifi) as a bonus.  However, if you have spotty cell coverage in your home, you'll soon be frustrated.  "DANG IT!  I've got wifi AND a computer sitting right here, but I can't download a fricking thing to my Kindle because it lacks wifi and I am unable to transfer from my computer as well..."

You CAN use it, read on...

It's a first edition that, like I said, has very low power consumption.  Anyone paying $360 for something should do the research first.  If you are frequently in a place without EVDO coverage, the Kindle would be frustrating (You live in the STICKS, btw!).  Wi-Fi would make it both more complicated to use day-to-day as well as greatly increase the power consumption.  (More complicated for MOST users, obviously you are an exception that they are not selling to)  The thing weighs 10.3...I think that it does very well.

However, just because you don't need the computer to use the Kindle, doesnt' mean the Kindle refuses the computer's help.  You can load anything you want on there, including texts from Project Gutenberg.  $.10/doc fee to send any pdf EVDO to your Kindle (cell usage charge!), and it's free to have it converted for you to load over your USB.  I don't think I would buy a lot of books, but I'd put blogs, and Gutenberg and who knows what else (CCEL Library!) on it.

Quote
I've had $200 PDA's with more functionality (and connectivity options)...They were ALSO smaller AND had more storage.  (and were great displays to read from...even offering, COLOR!)

Yeah, I'm sure that you'd love to read all your books on that small screen too.  I know I wouldn't.  I spend enough of my time staring at cramped backlit displays.  I thought a component of this forum was about ergonomics?  Any time I can spend NOT staring at a monitor greatly increases my quality of life from fewer headaches.

The Kindle is not a PDA, it's a first generation replacement for a lot of books you'd like to carry with you.  Imagine putting the Kindle in your backpack instead of your 10 favorite O'Reilly editions?  Oh yeah, and you can put 10 versions of the Bible on their too.  And all the current newspapers...and whatever else you want.

Go Kindle!  =-D  I'm still confused over why I want one.  This post has at least something to do with it:  http://www.challies.com/archives/general-news/five-good-reasons-to-own-a-kindle.php

The Amazon customer reviews on the Kindle are mixed, it's not 99% 5 star reviews, but more than half the 3400 reviews are 5 star, with ~10% each in the 1, 2, and 3 star category.  I'm not reading them all but the 1 star I read had many of your same complaints plus some usability complaints.  ONe 4 star review said "I wish I could make mine a 5 star now that I've used it for 2 months".  I think it does what they set out to do and that doesn't include adequately explaining themselves to you.  =-D
Andrew
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Offline iMav

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This is pathetic and sad
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 05 July 2008, 10:34:09 »
Quote from: ashort;6371
Imagine putting the Kindle in your backpack instead of your 10 favorite O'Reilly editions?

I'll have to imagine it because Amazon doesn't offer any of the O'Reilly books for the Kindle.

Offline ashort

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This is pathetic and sad
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 05 July 2008, 10:40:29 »
If your media criteria is going to be only the books that are available right now, the product is already doomed because there can be NO accounting for TIME that it takes to get more books available.  NONE.

But there's no arguing this point with Mr. Instant Gratification.
Andrew
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Offline ashort

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This is pathetic and sad
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 05 July 2008, 10:43:58 »
I doubt I'll buy one, I don't need one more thing on my desk, and I rarely read the books that are on my desk.

But i think, like the iPhone, it is a really cool idea, implemented well; and like the iPhone, it's first implementation costs way too much.

Can't wait to see the next gen $200 Kindle.  =-D
Andrew
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Offline ashort

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This is pathetic and sad
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 05 July 2008, 10:58:47 »
Quote from: iMav;6373
I'll have to imagine it because Amazon doesn't offer any of the O'Reilly books for the Kindle.


http://toc.oreilly.com/2008/06/select-oreilly-books-soon-on-kindle-and-as-drm-free-digital-bundle.html
Andrew
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Offline xsphat

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This is pathetic and sad
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 05 July 2008, 11:29:44 »
Skip the kindle, buy an HHKB Pro 2 with $360 and write your own books.

Offline iMav

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This is pathetic and sad
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 05 July 2008, 11:39:09 »
Quote from: ashort;6375
I doubt I'll buy one, I don't need one more thing on my desk, and I rarely read the books that are on my desk.

I thought the point was to consolidate those books on your desk?  Not needing another thing on your desk is THE reason TO buy one.

Quote from: ashort;6375
Can't wait to see the next gen $200 Kindle.  =-D

Why?  You don't need one more thing on your desk and you rarely read the books that are there anyways?  Does a lower price-point change those facts??  ;)

Offline ashort

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« Reply #12 on: Sat, 05 July 2008, 11:45:15 »
Way to redirect and not address the weaknesses of your own arguments.

And I can't wait to see it, I never said I was going to buy it.
Andrew
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Offline iMav

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This is pathetic and sad
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 05 July 2008, 11:49:55 »
Quote from: ashort;6376
http://toc.oreilly.com/2008/06/select-oreilly-books-soon-on-kindle-and-as-drm-free-digital-bundle.html

Nice.  (although those initial offerings are the suck)

Offline iMav

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This is pathetic and sad
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 05 July 2008, 12:00:40 »
Quote from: ashort;6384
Way to redirect and not address the weaknesses of your own arguments.

My initial comments were to stir the conversation.  I've succeeded.  I am honestly interested in exploring whether such a device would be suitable for myself.

Quote from: ashort
And I can't wait to see it, I never said I was going to buy it.

I am confused about your stance.  You initially said that you wanted one badly and loved the idea of consolidating your library.  You also mentioned that the price point was the reason you haven't bought one already.  ("$360 is why I haven't.")

But then you go on to say that you don't need something new on your desk and that you don't read the books you have anyways.  

And then you hint that a lower price point would make it more enticing to you.

So, my question is....do you want a Kindle or do you NOT want a Kindle??  (as for me, I am undecided...availability of the content I read on a regular basis is the biggest question mark)

Offline iMav

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Amazon's "NowNow" service.
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 05 July 2008, 13:08:04 »
Interesting.  I didn't know anything about this service until I started reading up on the Kindle.  

Check out some info here and here.

The second link's author seems to have some (legitimate) issues with the e-ink display...but is still a big fan of the device.

Offline lowpoly

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This is pathetic and sad
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 06 July 2008, 14:20:46 »
A friend has an Iliad. The e-ink is really good, it's much better than I imagined it. Even if turning pages is slow and flickery because the current page has to be erased by displaying a negative image.

I use my PDA for reading. That works very well for novels but not so much for technical .pdfs.

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