Author Topic: [IC] KAT Refined - GB starts tomorrow!  (Read 192095 times)

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Offline perry4761

  • Posts: 57
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #350 on: Tue, 21 July 2020, 13:13:16 »
really hope that future kat sets can also considering using the same fonts etc as well, the font is one the big things that keeps me from getting KAT sets.


thanks this is great work

Seconding.

Thirding.

Fourthing, but I’m not sure how that can happen without the render files being made available to people who wish to do so. Without that, designers will need to first spend countless hours trying to copy Macsurfy’s work, and then spend whatever amount of hours will be necessary to create their own set from there. It’s more than double the work, so I’m not sure this will catch on organically.


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Offline hammerbrotha

  • Posts: 129
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #351 on: Tue, 21 July 2020, 15:41:00 »
5thing this, i love the font work done here, if this could become the standard for KAT, or at least easily accessible, i think it'd look amazing. The funny KAT font has turned me off of a few sets out there.

Offline Shutter_Shock

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  • Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #352 on: Tue, 21 July 2020, 20:32:35 »
really hope that future kat sets can also considering using the same fonts etc as well, the font is one the big things that keeps me from getting KAT sets.


thanks this is great work

Seconding.

Thirding.

+1

Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #353 on: Tue, 21 July 2020, 23:47:21 »
I'm in. Looks great. Is there an estimated GB date or is that still undecided?

Thank you!

Offline Jars

  • Posts: 2
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #354 on: Wed, 22 July 2020, 12:46:35 »
I am in love with this, can't wait!  :-*

Offline w0t

  • Posts: 6
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #355 on: Fri, 24 July 2020, 07:20:42 »
Man the clean, minimalist look is absolutely stunning! Love how you're nailing the basics and the hierarchy of symbols in the numbers is neat. Was slightly bummed that the split spacebar was in the orthos/40s kit render considering 2.25/2.75/7u users are mutually exclusive to ortho users and grouping these users went against the streamlined vibe of this set/kat kits but knowing you'll add a spacebar kit resolves that. It also made me realise that I'd be willing to buy the mod kits in both bow and wob for alice layout just in case but thinking about different colour combinations I can coordinate makes me excited! Still gonna buy a spacebar kit on top of this. Btw you've done an amazing job macsurfy, your attention to detail and willingness to communicate with us means a lot so ty!! :thumb:

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #356 on: Fri, 24 July 2020, 07:35:28 »
Was slightly bummed that the split spacebar was in the orthos/40s kit render considering 2.25/2.75/7u users are mutually exclusive to ortho users [...]

2.25u and 2.75u spacekeys are used by lots of staggered 40% boards (Prime_E, Cajal, UT47.2, Equinox, Romeo, Dimple, Panc40, Minorca, to name a few), so unless ortho support is split off and offered separately, these keys should stay in the kit. 7u is not commonly used on 40s, though; that can probably be removed.

Offline fish_oh

  • Posts: 13
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #357 on: Fri, 24 July 2020, 08:17:42 »
Any estimate ETA when this GB will start?

Offline stealthzero

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #358 on: Fri, 24 July 2020, 09:39:43 »
Well fk...the BoW set looks so sexy to me but both sets are baller af.  Im definitely in on this GB

Offline w0t

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #359 on: Fri, 24 July 2020, 10:54:57 »
2.25u and 2.75u spacekeys are used by lots of staggered 40% boards (Prime_E, Cajal, UT47.2, Equinox, Romeo, Dimple, Panc40, Minorca, to name a few), so unless ortho support is split off and offered separately, these keys should stay in the kit. 7u is not commonly used on 40s, though; that can probably be removed.

Oh I see, thanks for the clarification. Soz I'm still new to this but my point was it's a shame the spacebars and 40s are bundled together in the renders and that a dedicated 2.25/2.75/7u kit would be beneficial for catering to more people instead of only the 40%s you mentioned. They probs already sorted it tho considering their past message, guessing 2.25/2.75u included in both the spacebar and 40s kit? But surely it wouldn't be a big deal for those 40% board users to add an extra kit to their order right, that way the orthos/other 40 users don't have extra spacebars.

Here we have the list with the results on the right side (ordered and non-ordered). What is marked green is what I already have (I included the split Ortho and 40s kits too) just so it becomes clearer what should be added.
Show Image


The ordered list on its own for clarity
Show Image


Let me know what you think of this list but I think it is pretty clear that a spacebar kit and Ergo kit is needed at the very least.
« Last Edit: Fri, 24 July 2020, 10:59:37 by w0t »

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #360 on: Fri, 24 July 2020, 10:59:45 »
Oh I see, thanks for the clarification. Soz I'm still new to this but my point was it's a shame the spacebars and 40s are bundled together in the renders and that a dedicated 2.25/2.75/7u kit would be beneficial for catering to more people instead of only the 40%s you mentioned. They probs already sorted it tho considering their past message, guessing 2.25/2.75u included in both the spacebar and 40s kit?

Ah okay, I missed the point of your original post slightly. Yes, a separate spacekeys kit is definitely needed. I think 2.25u and 2.75u are a meaningful inclusion for both kits.

Offline Muchacho

  • Posts: 24
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #361 on: Fri, 24 July 2020, 13:03:28 »
really hope that future kat sets can also considering using the same fonts etc as well, the font is one the big things that keeps me from getting KAT sets.


thanks this is great work

Seconding.

Thirding.

Fourthing, but I’m not sure how that can happen without the render files being made available to people who wish to do so. Without that, designers will need to first spend countless hours trying to copy Macsurfy’s work, and then spend whatever amount of hours will be necessary to create their own set from there. It’s more than double the work, so I’m not sure this will catch on organically.


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While your logic makes sense, it only needs one other person to do the same work and release the files.
So you are being slightly more pessimistic than it needs. :D

Offline pleasega

  • Posts: 55
Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #362 on: Sat, 25 July 2020, 04:09:21 »
hi, can you consider adding ilumkb for SEA vendor?

Offline MacSurfy

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #363 on: Sat, 25 July 2020, 12:11:28 »
Hi all!

I am back from my vacation. Thank you so much for the suggestions and the kind words. I am now compiling a todo list for myself to get some kind of structure on how to approach all the updates and additions. I'll post them as soon as they are ready for one last round of feedback. But I think we're pretty close.

I have not yet received any samples so no news on that part.

Groupbuy will start in October. Very exciting!

Offline thelaughingman

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #364 on: Sat, 25 July 2020, 22:33:08 »
looking forward to getting 1 set of each, the icon mods just look too damn clean  :))

Offline ISOxSwap

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #365 on: Sun, 26 July 2020, 02:13:17 »
Was slightly bummed that the split spacebar was in the orthos/40s kit render considering 2.25/2.75/7u users are mutually exclusive to ortho users [...]

2.25u and 2.75u spacekeys are used by lots of staggered 40% boards (Prime_E, Cajal, UT47.2, Equinox, Romeo, Dimple, Panc40, Minorca, to name a few), so unless ortho support is split off and offered separately, these keys should stay in the kit. 7u is not commonly used on 40s, though; that can probably be removed.

I have to disagree.
The same way F-row is its own kit, split spacebar should be one to for all the different types of keebs. I might be able to stretch that the 40s can have a 2u and a 4u spacebar.

Offline MacSurfy

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #366 on: Sun, 26 July 2020, 15:02:53 »
2.25u and 2.75u spacekeys are used by lots of staggered 40% boards (Prime_E, Cajal, UT47.2, Equinox, Romeo, Dimple, Panc40, Minorca, to name a few), so unless ortho support is split off and offered separately, these keys should stay in the kit. 7u is not commonly used on 40s, though; that can probably be removed.

There is no 7u in the 40s kit?

Looking at what to do with the space kit currently. Feels like it would be a good idea actually to break out all the spacebars from the 40s and offer it as a separate kit. It makes for a pretty big kit though.

It would contain the following:

  • 1.5u x 2
  • 1u x 2
  • 6u
  • 6u off-center
  • 6.25u
  • 7u (not sure this is needed?)
  • 3u
  • 2.75u
  • 2.25u
  • 2u x 2
  • 1.75u x 2
  • B

Alternartively leave 40s as is and do a "regular" spacebar kit with

  • 1u
  • 1.25u
  • 2u
  • 2.25u
  • 2.75u
  • 3u
  • 6u
  • 6u off-center
  • B


yey, ney .. opinions?


« Last Edit: Sun, 26 July 2020, 15:07:31 by MacSurfy »

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #367 on: Sun, 26 July 2020, 15:37:47 »
I have to disagree.
The same way F-row is its own kit, split spacebar should be one to for all the different types of keebs. I might be able to stretch that the 40s can have a 2u and a 4u spacebar.

Where have you seen a 4u spacebar?


Looking at what to do with the space kit currently. Feels like it would be a good idea actually to break out all the spacebars from the 40s and offer it as a separate kit. It makes for a pretty big kit though.

It would contain the following:

[...]

Alternartively leave 40s as is and do a "regular" spacebar kit with

[...]

yey, ney .. opinions?

I vote for the second option. There is no reason to include those extra keys in 40s/ortho for only a minority of users that would use them. Putting all of the spacekeys in the spacebar kit essentially forces 40s users to buy it, which I don't think is something you want to have. Spacebar kits should be for extra keys that are needed to cover oddball layouts: Alice and split space in the case of ≥60% boards, and double 2.25u, double 2u and double 1.75u in the case of 40s.

See KAT Monochrome for a good reference on 40s and spacebar kits. Albeit, staggered 40% and ortho kits are split there, so they have a few extra nice-to-have keys in them that aren't necessarily a must (e.g. second 2u and 1.75u spaces).
« Last Edit: Sun, 26 July 2020, 17:01:15 by konstantin »

Offline kidpid

  • Posts: 192
Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #368 on: Sun, 26 July 2020, 15:39:32 »
The 40s kit should have the spacebars that are most common 40s layouts, namely 2x 2u, 2x 1.5u, 2x 2u, 1x 2.25u, and 1x 2.75u (I may be missing something). The spacebars kit should come with the weird spacebars, and potentially include a duplicate 6.25u and 7u spacebar so that 40s that do use those spacebars don't have to buy a modifiers kit to cover it.

Offline ISOxSwap

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #369 on: Sun, 26 July 2020, 16:41:37 »
And all the Alice an split-keyboard users?

Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #370 on: Sun, 26 July 2020, 16:58:03 »
The 40s kit should have the spacebars that are most common 40s layouts, namely 2x 2u, 2x 1.5u, 2x 2u, 1x 2.25u, and 1x 2.75u (I may be missing something). The spacebars kit should come with the weird spacebars, and potentially include a duplicate 6.25u and 7u spacebar so that 40s that do use those spacebars don't have to buy a modifiers kit to cover it.

You're missing 6.25u and, potentially, 1.75u. However, I think that 6.25u should be included in alphas anyway and not mods, because it's used on most/all sizes that this set aims to cover.

Second 2u may or may not be worth including. There is a 2u space in the spacebars kit which can be used for this, like there is a 2.25u key which can be used for 40% boards that use 2× 2.25u.

7u space is not used commonly enough to justify including it; I think it should stay only in the mods kits. It falls into the category of keys such as R3 (KAT R2) 1.5u Tab, used on 40% boards such as Romeo and Equinox. Those boards were designed to be covered by standard base kits, so they don't make a good basis for including such keys in 40s kits.


And all the Alice an split-keyboard users?

A copy of 2.75u, 2.25u, 2u, 1.25u and 1u spacekeys should definitely be included in the spacebar kit as well, imo. This benefits both ≥60% boards (Alice, split space) and 40s boards (double 2u, double 2.25u).
« Last Edit: Sun, 26 July 2020, 17:03:07 by konstantin »

Offline hammerbrotha

  • Posts: 129
Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #371 on: Sun, 26 July 2020, 19:42:07 »
Any chance for a Canadian vendor?
Edit. Nevermind I need to read the 1st post.


I'm in!


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Offline caviar

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  • Location: AU
Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #372 on: Mon, 27 July 2020, 16:43:33 »
Have they indicated when you will receive a sample?

Offline w0t

  • Posts: 6
Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #373 on: Tue, 28 July 2020, 04:10:07 »
Looking at what to do with the space kit currently. Feels like it would be a good idea actually to break out all the spacebars from the 40s and offer it as a separate kit. It makes for a pretty big kit though.

It would contain the following:
...

Alternartively leave 40s as is and do a "regular" spacebar kit with
...

I reckon the latter option, that way split spacebar users won't get ortho/40s specific spacebars and vice versa, so has the least redundancies. 40/ortho users might get annoyed if you did the former cos they'll be forced to get the spacebar kit anyways.

Offline MacSurfy

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #374 on: Tue, 28 July 2020, 06:00:40 »
Have they indicated when you will receive a sample?

Just heard from them that the samples are done  :cool: :cool:. They are on their way here.

Offline lamonayon

  • Posts: 39
Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #375 on: Tue, 28 July 2020, 07:10:57 »
Nice! You also in NL man? Really excited for this!

Offline Acoipat

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #376 on: Tue, 28 July 2020, 08:46:03 »
For spacebar kit I also prefer the second option, the keys you listed look good with the only thing possibly being 2x 3u? It's not a common spacebar size but if offered might as well include 2x 3u since it seems most boards using 3u space have 3u/1u/3u layout.

Also, just noticed there are no 1.5u Code keys but there's a 1.5u Sys key in the Extra mods kit. This seems odd, as a single 1.5u Sys and 1u Win doesn't cover Tsangan bottom row. I think having a 2x 1.5u Code/ 1u Alt option before getting the 1.5u Sys makes sense, and also 2x 1u Win / 2x 1.5u Sys if offered instead of 1 of each.

Offline blaqbern

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #377 on: Tue, 28 July 2020, 14:07:14 »
For spacebar kit I also prefer the second option, the keys you listed look good with the only thing possibly being 2x 3u? It's not a common spacebar size but if offered might as well include 2x 3u since it seems most boards using 3u space have 3u/1u/3u layout.

Also, just noticed there are no 1.5u Code keys but there's a 1.5u Sys key in the Extra mods kit. This seems odd, as a single 1.5u Sys and 1u Win doesn't cover Tsangan bottom row. I think having a 2x 1.5u Code/ 1u Alt option before getting the 1.5u Sys makes sense, and also 2x 1u Win / 2x 1.5u Sys if offered instead of 1 of each.
I agree that 2 x 1.5U Code and/or Sys keys would be great. Would also love to see a 1.5U Fn key for the bottom row.


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Offline MacSurfy

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #378 on: Tue, 28 July 2020, 14:27:31 »
Two more things. Can we get a 1.5u \ key in the alphas? I feel it would be a waste to have to buy a whole separate mod set for one key... And is it possible to get a 6.25u spacebar in the alphas?

Why would u need that in the alphas? It is already in Mods, don't really see why you would move it.

Yes the 6.25u in Alphas is happening.

Nice! You also in NL man? Really excited for this!

Correct  :D. Thank you for your support!




Offline gunth

  • Posts: 14
Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #379 on: Tue, 28 July 2020, 14:30:44 »
i am from belgium so i have to buy this  :D
Really like this set

Offline MacSurfy

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #380 on: Tue, 28 July 2020, 14:31:07 »
For spacebar kit I also prefer the second option, the keys you listed look good with the only thing possibly being 2x 3u? It's not a common spacebar size but if offered might as well include 2x 3u since it seems most boards using 3u space have 3u/1u/3u layout.

Will do the spacebar kit without the 3u x 2 to begin with and then take the discussion from there (there will be one more round of changes after I publish the new stuff).

Also, just noticed there are no 1.5u Code keys but there's a 1.5u Sys key in the Extra mods kit. This seems odd, as a single 1.5u Sys and 1u Win doesn't cover Tsangan bottom row. I think having a 2x 1.5u Code/ 1u Alt option before getting the 1.5u Sys makes sense, and also 2x 1u Win / 2x 1.5u Sys if offered instead of 1 of each.

Thanks for the suggestions, will look in to it and probably fix it since it's not the first time it has been mentioned.

Offline KingOfMemes

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #381 on: Tue, 28 July 2020, 14:47:01 »
Did you ever decide to do Colevrak?

Offline MacSurfy

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #382 on: Tue, 28 July 2020, 14:49:20 »
Did you ever decide to do Colevrak?

Yes. It has been made already. Uploading it here in a week or two.

i am from belgium so i have to buy this  :D
Really like this set

Thank you!  :thumb:


Offline Hyphen

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #383 on: Tue, 28 July 2020, 14:55:27 »
The WoB is gorgeous. I'm definitely in just to put this on the board that lives on my macbook.

Offline dakimakura

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #384 on: Tue, 28 July 2020, 17:34:42 »
Definitely in for BoW + Text mods!

Offline hmmmwhatsthis

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #385 on: Tue, 28 July 2020, 19:07:12 »
This is it. This is the one.

Offline psxndc

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #386 on: Tue, 28 July 2020, 20:30:38 »
Did you ever decide to do Colevrak?

Yes. It has been made already. Uploading it here in a week or two.

Dooooooope.
Ortho. Always.

Offline Yilk81

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #387 on: Wed, 29 July 2020, 02:14:34 »
Interested to see what the pricing is going to be on this one. This feels like a very nice default base set that could do very well even outside of group buys.

Offline KingOfMemes

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #388 on: Wed, 29 July 2020, 09:36:15 »
Did you ever decide to do Colevrak?

Yes. It has been made already. Uploading it here in a week or two.

i am from belgium so i have to buy this  :D
Really like this set

Thank you!  :thumb:
Mah man. Count me in for many sets

Offline hell0af

  • Posts: 2
Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #389 on: Wed, 29 July 2020, 12:09:54 »
Love the attention to all the details. So in.

Offline Curin Derwin

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #390 on: Wed, 29 July 2020, 20:18:51 »
Extra B key in kits, please!

Offline aadk5

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #391 on: Thu, 30 July 2020, 00:57:14 »
Extra B key in kits, please!

This! Or any way we could separate the spacebars from the ortho kit? I'd have so many wasted keys if I needed the spacebars on an Alice

Offline MacSurfy

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #392 on: Thu, 30 July 2020, 01:16:17 »
Extra B key in kits, please!

This! Or any way we could separate the spacebars from the ortho kit? I'd have so many wasted keys if I needed the spacebars on an Alice
Extra B key in kits, please!

Separate spacebars kit with Alice support is coming

Offline blutoin

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #393 on: Thu, 30 July 2020, 01:57:53 »
The "\" button in the R3 column should be placed in alpha, right?

Offline ISOxSwap

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined
« Reply #394 on: Thu, 30 July 2020, 02:44:56 »
Two more things. Can we get a 1.5u \ key in the alphas? I feel it would be a waste to have to buy a whole separate mod set for one key... And is it possible to get a 6.25u spacebar in the alphas?

Why would u need that in the alphas? It is already in Mods, don't really see why you would move it.

Yes the 6.25u in Alphas is happening.

The 1.5u \ is part of the alphas and not mods. If u look at some ANSI boards u will see it follow the alpha colors.

Offline harrislp

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #395 on: Thu, 30 July 2020, 02:51:49 »
I am very interested in this set, looks like a lot of time and effort has been put in so far and the result looks amazing. I think that this set will do extremely well and may well put KAT on the map as a major competitor to GMK as the go to set for hobbyists and enthusiasts alike. Really looking forward to the group buy stage, will most likely be purchasing both the white on black and the black on white sets. Hopefully the manufacturer has the same level of attention to detail and perfectionist tendencies as the designer. Can’t wait for October!

Offline vaf1en

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #396 on: Thu, 30 July 2020, 03:13:45 »
With the group buy scheduled for October, what would a realistic timeframe for delivery be?

Offline ISOxSwap

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #397 on: Thu, 30 July 2020, 03:37:14 »
With the group buy scheduled for October, what would a realistic timeframe for delivery be?
Summertime if we are lucky..

Offline MacSurfy

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #398 on: Thu, 30 July 2020, 06:00:32 »
With the group buy scheduled for October, what would a realistic timeframe for delivery be?

I was told 7-9 months from when the GB ends when I kicked this off. That was in the middle of Covid-19 and production has resumed since then so the time frame is a big unknown at this moment. A lot can still change in the world but hopefully it will be at the lower end of that estimate but who knows.

Offline artememe

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Re: [IC] KAT Refined - GroupBuy in October 2020
« Reply #399 on: Fri, 31 July 2020, 04:20:03 »
Hi sorry is there a Discord server for this to have easier pages for updates/announcements/general feedback? Tried to look across the posts but couldn't find : )