[IC] KAT Refined - GB starts tomorrow!

[MacSurfy]

Looks great, def interested

Cant wait to buy both BoW and WoB sets.   My wallet will be ready.

Your commitment to making this set as good as it can possibly be is really admirable. Thank you for all the time and effort!
This set is  living up to its moniker.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Totally agree to this!

I will probably will buy both wob and bow, if I have money. Or at least wob mods and bow alphas. This will be my first KAT profile keycaps

Thank you so much guys!

In for a sh*t ton of kits  

Thank you !

Who knew I would be making a Blackhawks fan happy one day     .. thank you!

[wertqy]

oh that black is very nice I like that

[..//dexx]

I'm really looking forward to this. I never used a KAT profile before so this will be my first set.
Just the number of dedicated kits is insane.

[Lord_Rabel]

Really interested. When the GB goes live, when do you think do the vendors ship them out?

[DJ Clicks]

If I want to mix BoW alphas with WoB mods on Alice layout, my extra B would be black, so can the extra B be included in the alphas instead?

[metr]

Have you considered vertically centering the up and down arrow legends to be consistent with the other modifiers, like they did with GMK Minimal 2? https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=107868.0
I find it more logical and pleasing to look at but I am not sure if there is a reason for them to be top-aligned.

Sorry if this has been discussed already, I tried searching for it but didn't find anything.

[Kookiekurls]

Thank you for making this! Just hope the QC issues with KAT are resolved in time

[SirTimmyTimbit]

Any chance you can do an accent kit with esc, enter and possibly spacebar?

I want BoW with black enter and escapes. Sort of like the Kuro Shiro look.

Don't have to support all the compats, just the major ones like 60/65/75/TKL.

[Bl4ck]

Any chance you can do an accent kit with esc, enter and possibly spacebar?

I want BoW with black enter and escapes. Sort of like the Kuro Shiro look.

Don't have to support all the compats, just the major ones like 60/65/75/TKL.

That doesn't really make sense, just get BoW and WoB kits.

[SirTimmyTimbit]

Well, I only need up to 5 keys. With KAT's kitting it's a little inefficient to get a whole mod kit ($50+) for just 5 keys. In fact I think most people would be fine with just Esc and Enter as people seem to prefer alpha colored spacebars.

Even if he combines both WoB and BoW accents (10 keys total) into one kit it'll still be cheaper than picking up a an extra mod kit.

I'm talking about these 5 keys in both BoW and WoB into one kit




Edit: Forgot ISO enter.

[Bl4ck]

Well, I only need up to 5 keys. With KAT's kitting it's a little inefficient to get a whole mod kit ($50+) for just 5 keys.

Even if he combines both WoB and BoW accents (10 keys total) into one kit it'll still be cheaper than picking up a an extra mod kit.

I'm talking about these 5 keys in both BoW and WoB into one kit

Show Image

I see, while I still think its not necessary, I thought you wanted him to include accent keys in the main kits. This seems more reasonable but still.

[SirTimmyTimbit]

Well, I only need up to 5 keys. With KAT's kitting it's a little inefficient to get a whole mod kit ($50+) for just 5 keys.

Even if he combines both WoB and BoW accents (10 keys total) into one kit it'll still be cheaper than picking up a an extra mod kit.

I'm talking about these 5 keys in both BoW and WoB into one kit

Show Image

I see, while I still think its not necessary, I thought you wanted him to include accent keys in the main kits. This seems more reasonable but still.

Well I'd be fine with that too. I think it's a fairly cheap way to spice up a plain WoB or BoW whenever you feel like it.

[MacSurfy]

I'm really looking forward to this. I never used a KAT profile before so this will be my first set.
Just the number of dedicated kits is insane.

Thank you!

Really interested. When the GB goes live, when do you think do the vendors ship them out?

No idea to be honest. Lot's of variables going on with Covid-19, old QC issues that need to be correct and the ability to scale up workforce in these times. But I don't think we will see it before next summer.

If I want to mix BoW alphas with WoB mods on Alice layout, my extra B would be black, so can the extra B be included in the alphas instead?

No extra B's in Alpha. Sorry.

Have you considered vertically centering the up and down arrow legends to be consistent with the other modifiers, like they did with GMK Minimal 2? https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=107868.0
I find it more logical and pleasing to look at but I am not sure if there is a reason for them to be top-aligned.

Sorry if this has been discussed already, I tried searching for it but didn't find anything.

It works better for Minimal since it is Text mods only and they are always centered in height. I run three different Mod versions so it does not work as well in this case.

Thank you for making this! Just hope the QC issues with KAT are resolved in time

Thank you too! Same here, will be watching the coming delivered sets closely.

Any chance you can do an accent kit with esc, enter and possibly spacebar?

I want BoW with black enter and escapes. Sort of like the Kuro Shiro look.

Don't have to support all the compats, just the major ones like 60/65/75/TKL.

Sorry but Refined is basically two sets released as one. Either WoB or BoW. You can mix and match of course if you want but the kits will not be mixed. Even if I wanted to add it, it is a slippery slope. The keys you requested won't be enough for others using other layouts or perhaps using other ways to implement accent keys. Hope you understand. Cheers!

[metr]

It works better for Minimal since it is Text mods only and they are always centered in height. I run three different Mod versions so it does not work as well in this case.

Thanks. What are the rules for when a mod should be centered? From what I can see, the icons for backspace, return, left, right, and command are centered, and the icons for caps lock, shift, up, and down are top-aligned. I appreciate the work your doing to refine the legends, I would just like to understand the design.

[MacSurfy]

It works better for Minimal since it is Text mods only and they are always centered in height. I run three different Mod versions so it does not work as well in this case.

Thanks. What are the rules for when a mod should be centered? From what I can see, the icons for backspace, return, left, right, and command are centered, and the icons for caps lock, shift, up, and down are top-aligned. I appreciate the work your doing to refine the legends, I would just like to understand the design.

Not only caps lock, shift, up & down but also all the alphas Top aligned legends/icons are more common than non-top aligned legends so if one wants to be consistent then top aligned is better. This of course changes a bit if you do text/icon or text only. But you will still have a top aligned majority regardless.

Which is better? Highly subjective of course... That's why you have the new mod icon placement on some newer GMK sets. But a lot of people still prefer the OG way. If you look at a layout with OG icon mods I think it looks far better and more balanced than centered mods. But to each their own.

Rules around placement is pretty much the same as GMK has it. Anything pointing sideways OR is a word is centered. Everything else top aligned.

Hope that answered your questions. Keep them coming if you have more. Cheers!

[metr]

Thanks for explaining the reasoning behind it! I’m looking forward to the group buy.

[MacSurfy]

New renders up! Will get back to the last bits of the kitting. Just needed a break.


TX66 by TX Keyboard Inc


TX66 by TX Keyboard Inc

[..//dexx]

So clean.

[GSV-CargoCult]

Please can you separate out the UK ISO kit?

[OmniSzron]

BoW looks absolutely fresh and clean.

[hottrout]

Please can you separate out the UK ISO kit?

+1 for this.

The new renders are good, kit looks so clean, I can feel a lot of need for both WoB and BoW.

[Skok]

Wow, can't believe I didn't find this earlier. Will definitely be picking up the WoB set especially since KAT is so affordable. Glad to see a set with standard icons and legends.

[MacSurfy]

So for those of you who requested a mono kit, and there has been quite a few of you. I made the kit, and tried it out a few times and came to the conclusion I won't be doing it for Refined. It's kind of useless to be honest, and looks odd. So two things that I would not want to do in in Refined since that goes agains the overall concept of why Refined exists in the first place.

So that means the kitting is done. I will prepare some stuff this weekend and send it off to get price estimates. I will continue to tweak some legends the coming weeks while I wait for the new prototype caps and then everything should be good to go. Exciting! Thank you for your support and feedback so far, it has been invaluable!

[harlekein]

So for those of you who requested a mono kit, and there has been quite a few of you. I made the kit, and tried it out a few times and came to the conclusion I won't be doing it for Refined. It's kind of useless to be honest, and looks odd. So two things that I would not want to do in in Refined since that goes agains the overall concept of why Refined exists in the first place.

Show Image

I understand your vision. I just want to see I always love the mono look. Also in this render.

Anyway, the amount of effort you put in is truly commendable. I will definitely be joining for both BoW and monochrome look.

Edit: One last question: KAT Hyperfuse had scooped homing keys included. These were introduced (or discovered?) recently. Can you please also include scooped homing keys in the alphas and Colevrak kits?

[MacSurfy]

So for those of you who requested a mono kit, and there has been quite a few of you. I made the kit, and tried it out a few times and came to the conclusion I won't be doing it for Refined. It's kind of useless to be honest, and looks odd. So two things that I would not want to do in in Refined since that goes agains the overall concept of why Refined exists in the first place.

Show Image

I understand your vision. I just want to see I always love the mono look. Also in this render.

Anyway, the amount of effort you put in is truly commendable. I will definitely be joining for both BoW and monochrome look.

Edit: One last question: KAT Hyperfuse had scooped homing keys included. These were introduced (or discovered?) recently. Can you please also include scooped homing keys in the alphas and Colevrak kits?

Thank you!

I was originally planning on switching out the barred homing keys for scooped (would not do both) but since I am not doing centered legends I think there will be too much distortion on the legends. Deep sculpted caps like KAT plus scooped is not a combination I think will work well in this case. It is not something I will have time to test out before the GB and I really doubt it will work (assumption) so it won't be offered this time. Sorry.

[psxndc]

So for those of you who requested a mono kit, and there has been quite a few of you. I made the kit, and tried it out a few times and came to the conclusion I won't be doing it for Refined. It's kind of useless to be honest, and looks odd.

Show Image

Thank you for at least considering it. Tbh, I totally disagree and think it looks rad, but everyone's opinion is different and it's your vision.

I'll echo Harlekein's comment - thank you so much for listening and considering feedback. The original concept was great to begin with and has really evolved into an amazing offering. The sets are *awesome* and I'll be getting at least one of each (including each colevrak ).

[konstantin]

Here is my feedback for the kits. All row numbers are given using Keyreative's numbering scheme (R4 = number row, R1 = Shift and bottom row). It took a while to go through everything, so I hope it's not too late to make these adjustments :) In general, kits look good except for what's listed below.


Numpad kits

• R4 End, R4 Pg Dn are the wrong row; they should be R5, but it turns out they're unnecessary and can be removed.
• These keys are for 1800, CP and 96-key layouts, which place them above the numpad, on the F-row. They are not commonly seen outside of this use case.
• Since KAT has a separate R5 profile for the F-row, these keys would need to be changed to R5 in order to be usable.
• However, since these keys are already present in R5 in the F-row kit, and 1800/CP/96-key users need to get that kit anyway, they are superfluous in the numpad kit and can be removed.
• Action points: Remove R4 End, R4 Pg Dn from Numpad.


• R4 Pause should be added to support OG 1800 layouts.
• Examples in other sets' numpad kits: 1, 2.
• Action points: Add R4 1u Pause to Numpad.


• It would be nice to have R4 = for Mac users and those who like to put equals on their numpads.
• Macs by default have R4 = on their keyboards.
• See the kit examples linked above for this as well.
• Action points: Add R4 1u = to Numpad.

Alphas kits

• The 7u spacebar could be moved back to Mods.
• Sub-60% boards that use 7u are rare. I can think of just a couple: Cajal, Nightmare, The Ave. I may be missing one or two lesser-known boards, but I've checked with the 40% Discord and I think that's about all of them.
• It might therefore make sense to drop 7u from Alphas to make the kit lighter for the majority of 40s, ortho and ergo users who don't need that key.
• Note that this is not the case with 6.25u as there are many 40s boards that use this spacebar size.
• On the other hand, it has been pointed out (thanks eski) that it'd be good if 7u stayed in Alphas for purposes of mixing BoW alphas with WoB mods (and vice-versa).
• Action points: Optionally, move 7u spacebar from Alphas to Mods.


• Replace R2 #~, R1 \| with R2 \|, R1 <> for more generic bare-bones ISO support that covers more users.
• I've written about this several times before on this forum, most notably here and here.
• For a detailed explanation, as well as usage stats to back it up, please refer to the linked posts. In short, R2 #~, R1 \| are an inconsistent/incomplete way of offering basic ISO coverage, and these keys are not useful for the majority of ISO users.
• The keys I propose (which have earned the moniker of “terminal-style ISO”) are a better alternative that offers wider coverage with the least amount of keys, while at the same time avoiding legend duplication.
• This way all of the keys needed for ISO-UK are grouped into a single kit (NorDeUK), and French kits need one less key.
• Action points: Move R2 #~, R1 \| from Alphas to NorDeUK. Move R2 \| and R1 <> from NorDeUK to Alphas. Remove R1 <> from French.

NorDeUK kits

• (Related to the previous issue) The WoB kit is missing a R2 \| key, but it's present in the BoW kit.
• This key is needed for US ISO layouts.
• Action points: None; solved by solving the previous issue, i.e. moving this key to Alphas. Otherwise, add R2 \| to NorDeUK WoB.


• Add missing 1u Alt Gr key.
• 1u Alt Gr is included in the French kit, so presumably it should be included here as well.
• Action points: Add R1 1u Alt Gr to NorDeUK.


• Consider adding a R1 , numpad key.
• Countries that fall into the NorDe category use a comma as the decimal separator rather than a period.
• Action points: Add R1 1u , (monolegend) to NorDeUK.

French kits

• The included 1.25u Shift keys are unnecessary and can be removed.
• 1.25u Shift is already included in the mod kits.
• Action points: Remove both 1.25u Shifts from French.


• Consider adding a R1 , numpad key.
• French-speaking countries use a comma as the decimal separator rather than a period.
• Action points: Add R1 1u , (monolegend) to French.


• R4 6-¦ sublegend should be | instead of ¦.
• The standard French (France) layout does not have ¦, only |, which is located on AltGr+6
• References: 1, 2, 3.
• Images that show ¦ are based off of the older IBM standard, which isn't used in practice anymore.
• Action points: Change R4 6-¦ legend to 6-|.

Spacebars kits

• There appear to be three 3u spacebars in the kit. One of them is unnecessary and can be removed.
• Boards use two 3u spacebars at most.
• Action points: Remove one 3u spacebar from Spacebars.
• This was fixed in the last update.

Mac kits

• It seems odd to include icon R1 ⌘ keys if the bottom row is always text-only.
• This would make the bottom row look like: Control, Option, ⌘, <space>, ⌘, Option, Control.
• Action points: If this isn't intended, remove R1 ⌘ keys from Mac.

40s kits

• Lower and Raise are unnecessary for staggered (non-ortho) 40% boards. A different legend would be better for an alternative Fn key.
• Lower and Raise are pretty closely tied to ortho, and I don't think I've ever seen a staggered 40% board use those keys.
• However, it would be nice to have a second Fn key that could work as Fn2, so perhaps Code or Menu (or Meta if you want to add a new legend) can be used instead. I believe you used Menu in a similar way in the ergo kits.
• Examples in other sets' 40s kits: 1, 2.
• Action points: Remove R1 Lower, R1 Raise from 40s. Optionally: add R1 1u Code or Menu (or Meta) to 40s.


• R1 1.75u Enter is unnecessary and can be removed.
• I am not aware of any boards that use this key. Checking with others in the 40% Discord confirms this.
• Even if there is some really obscure board out there that uses it, there are already R1 1.75u Lock, Shift and space keys that can be used in its place.
• In terms of examples, KAT Hyperfuse and KAT Iron had both this and the previous key, but then we removed them for KAT Monochrome when we went through to check and optimize the kits.
• Action points: Remove R1 1.75u Enter from 40s.


• R2 1.25u Shift is not commonly used. It can either be removed or changed to a different legend.
• Both of the most popular R2 1.25 options for staggered 40% are already covered: Tab and Fn.
• Shift is not commonly seen in this position, but Ctrl and Caps (besides Tab and Fn) are.
• If you decide to keep this key, it would be good if it had a more generic icon so it could cover for Ctrl, Caps and Fn (as an icon-only alternative to it). Barring creating a new icon, a good candidate would be ⇩ since it's relatively generic-looking.
• Action points: Remove R2 1.25u Shift from 40s; or change its legend from ⇧ to ⇩.


• You may or may not want to include a R3 2u Backspace.
• This key is used by the new TKC CandyBar (which seems to be gaining popularity), as well as 13u staggered 40% boards such as Pearl, JD45, Fourier, Laplace...
• Worth noting is that this key isn't the only option in that spot, as 2× 1u keys can also be used. So it's up to you whether you want to include this key.
• Action points: Optionally, add R3 2u Backspace to 40s.

Ortho kits

• Similar argument as above for the R2 Shift key, just 1u this time.
• However, in this case, there is some survey data to back up R2 Shift being used on ortho. For that reason, I wouldn't recommend removing it, just potentially changing its legend from ⇧ to ⇩.
• As you can see from the stats, R2 Caps is also fairly common. Either way this key can cover for both of those functions, the question is just which legend is more appropriate.
• In addition, ⇩ would also cover R2 Fn, which some people use (although it wasn't polled for in the survey).
• Action points: Optionally, change R2 Shift legend from ⇧ to ⇩.

Ergo kits

• Ergo kits — Changed row number on bottom R1 to R2
  

  Are you sure you made this change? The bottom row keys are still labeled R1 in the kits.
• Most (all?) KAT sets with ergo kits so far have had the bottom row on the main clusters be R2.
• I believe this is so that the bottom row would be more comfortable to type on, and also so that it would be level with the R2 keys on the thumb clusters.
• Here is a photo of an ErgoDox set that uses a R1 bottom row instead of R2 (granted, this is OEM profile). The bottom row sort of sticks out.
• Action points: Change bottom row labels from R1 to R2 in Ergo.

Legends & other

• There is a typographical inconsistency between the double quote and apostrophe legends.
• The former uses curly quotes (”), while the latter uses a straight apostrophe (').
• I would suggest changing the double quotes to be straight ("), not only for consistency, but also because that's what the key outputs on all layouts.
• Action points: Change ” legends to ".


• I would like to see System replace Code as the primary OS key legend in the mod kits (as is the case in 40s, Ortho and Ergo), but I understand if you don't want to change this as it's down to preference.
• My (semi-objective) reasons for suggesting this are outlined here (§3).
• Additionally, this would make all of the kits in the set consistent in their usage of System and Code keys. Consistency is good to have.
• Action points: If you do want to make the change, swap the places of Code and System legends in Mods and Extra Mods (using Sys for 1u keys).

Hope this helps.

Edit: deleted suggestion to remove 1.5u Shift from 40s; this key is used by UT47.2 and the upcoming Whimsy
Edit2: mentioned a few more boards that can use R3 2u Backspace

[honoka]

bruh

[UltimateDiver]

Is there any reason why the icon mods WoB and BoW don't have a R2 1.75u control key in it while the text mods and text/icon mods do have one? Or did i miss some changes to the kit where it's already in there?

[MacSurfy]

Is there any reason why the icon mods WoB and BoW don't have a R2 1.75u control key in it while the text mods and text/icon mods do have one? Or did i miss some changes to the kit where it's already in there?

Yes, the control icon is not offered in this set so that is why it is missing from the Icon mods kit.

[UltimateDiver]

Is there any reason why the icon mods WoB and BoW don't have a R2 1.75u control key in it while the text mods and text/icon mods do have one? Or did i miss some changes to the kit where it's already in there?

Yes, the control icon is not offered in this set so that is why it is missing from the Icon mods kit.

I get the reasoning behind that. But then I'm screwed because love icons and have control and caps swapped. And now I basically have to buy the entire text/icons or text mods text kit just for 1 control key because icons is the only mods kit it's not included in.

I hope it's not too late, but it would be great if you can still add it in.
The kit's looking great btw!

Edit: I don't know if swapping control and caps is common or not. Fair enough if it's a really niche thing to do and it unnecessarily adds to the kit. but then why have it in the other two mods kits?
 

[konstantin]

I get the reasoning behind that. But then I'm screwed because love icons and have control and caps swapped. And now I basically have to buy the entire text/icons or text mods text kit just for 1 control key because icons is the only mods kit it's not included in.
I hope it's not too late, but it would be great if you can still add it in.

To be fair, there is no bottom row Caps Lock key either. Also, the ⇩ icon is quite generic — there's nothing about it that inherently means “Caps Lock”, to be frank. I think you can use ⇩ as a Control key without any issues. Some sets (e.g. GMK Rouge) don't include R3 1.75u “Control” at all for this exact reason.

[UltimateDiver]

I get the reasoning behind that. But then I'm screwed because love icons and have control and caps swapped. And now I basically have to buy the entire text/icons or text mods text kit just for 1 control key because icons is the only mods kit it's not included in.
I hope it's not too late, but it would be great if you can still add it in.

To be fair, there is no bottom row Caps Lock key either. Also, the ⇩ icon is quite generic — there's nothing about it that inherently means “Caps Lock”, to be frank. I think you can use ⇩ as a Control key without any issues. Some sets (e.g. GMK Rouge) don't include R3 1.75u “Control” at all for this exact reason.

Sounds like it makes sense. It just seems odd to me.

[lakeboredom]

+1 for adding icon Control to Icon Mods kits 
If anything do it for consistency, the other kits have an hhkb Control key.

[VellFlamm]

I really wish there were text mod for all layouts and a mono number row set.
I'd love to have the 40s and the ortho, but I am a text mod guy.

[hotnoodle666]

This is the game changer for me. I like the look of KAT profile but not a fan of the big centered legengs

[MacSurfy]

Here is my feedback for the kits. All row numbers are given using Keyreative's numbering scheme (R4 = number row, R1 = Shift and bottom row). It took a while to go through everything, so I hope it's not too late to make these adjustments :) In general, kits look good except for what's listed below.

Thank you for the extensive list of suggestions. Very appreciated. I have amended most of the fixes so I won't be replying to them here. Only the things that I don't think are so straight forward or things I don't agree with.

Alphas kits

• The 7u spacebar could be moved back to Mods.
• Sub-60% boards that use 7u are rare. I can think of just a couple: Cajal, Nightmare, The Ave. I may be missing one or two lesser-known boards, but I've checked with the 40% Discord and I think that's about all of them.
• It might therefore make sense to drop 7u from Alphas to make the kit lighter for the majority of 40s, ortho and ergo users who don't need that key.
• Note that this is not the case with 6.25u as there are many 40s boards that use this spacebar size.
• On the other hand, it has been pointed out (thanks eski) that it'd be good if 7u stayed in Alphas for purposes of mixing BoW alphas with WoB mods (and vice-versa).
• Action points: Optionally, move 7u spacebar from Alphas to Mods.

Yes just like you say it is for mixing WoB, BoW. Since I do not have accent kits I want to at least make it simple/cheap to mix with the current setup.

Mac kits

• It seems odd to include icon R1 ⌘ keys if the bottom row is always text-only.
• This would make the bottom row look like: Control, Option, ⌘, <space>, ⌘, Option, Control.
• Action points: If this isn't intended, remove R1 ⌘ keys from Mac.

This was actually a request from several Mac users since it was text only from the start. They would rather have just that one icon rather than not. So I kept both text and icon version in there. So this one stays as is.

Ergo kits

• Ergo kits — Changed row number on bottom R1 to R2
  

  Are you sure you made this change? The bottom row keys are still labeled R1 in the kits.
• Most (all?) KAT sets with ergo kits so far have had the bottom row on the main clusters be R2.
• I believe this is so that the bottom row would be more comfortable to type on, and also so that it would be level with the R2 keys on the thumb clusters.
• Here is a photo of an ErgoDox set that uses a R1 bottom row instead of R2 (granted, this is OEM profile). The bottom row sort of sticks out.
• Action points: Change bottom row labels from R1 to R2 in Ergo.

There seems to be some disagreements on this. So will hold off for now and try to get this sorted asap. If any Ergo users here agree or disagree please voice your opinion.

Legends & other

• There is a typographical inconsistency between the double quote and apostrophe legends.
• The former uses curly quotes (”), while the latter uses a straight apostrophe (').
• I would suggest changing the double quotes to be straight ("), not only for consistency, but also because that's what the key outputs on all layouts.
• Action points: Change ” legends to ".

Correct. Both ways are actually common but it is not so common to mix them. I did this to distinguish them from eachother but you are correct, they should be using one style. Will fix this.

• I would like to see System replace Code as the primary OS key legend in the mod kits (as is the case in 40s, Ortho and Ergo), but I understand if you don't want to change this as it's down to preference.
• My (semi-objective) reasons for suggesting this are outlined here (§3).
• Additionally, this would make all of the kits in the set consistent in their usage of System and Code keys. Consistency is good to have.
• Action points: If you do want to make the change, swap the places of Code and System legends in Mods and Extra Mods (using Sys for 1u keys).

[/list]

I prefer System myself, and I also don't think the kits mentioned need to be aligned that way but I will think about what I do with this.
[/list]

[Adelscott]

...

Do you know if scooped homing keys exist in KAT profile ? Is that something you would consider ? I love them in GMK.

[konstantin]

Do you know if scooped homing keys exist in KAT profile ? Is that something you would consider ? I love them in GMK.

One last question: KAT Hyperfuse had scooped homing keys included. These were introduced (or discovered?) recently. Can you please also include scooped homing keys in the alphas and Colevrak kits?

I was originally planning on switching out the barred homing keys for scooped (would not do both) but since I am not doing centered legends I think there will be too much distortion on the legends. Deep sculpted caps like KAT plus scooped is not a combination I think will work well in this case. It is not something I will have time to test out before the GB and I really doubt it will work (assumption) so it won't be offered this time. Sorry.

[Adelscott]

Do you know if scooped homing keys exist in KAT profile ? Is that something you would consider ? I love them in GMK.

One last question: KAT Hyperfuse had scooped homing keys included. These were introduced (or discovered?) recently. Can you please also include scooped homing keys in the alphas and Colevrak kits?

I was originally planning on switching out the barred homing keys for scooped (would not do both) but since I am not doing centered legends I think there will be too much distortion on the legends. Deep sculpted caps like KAT plus scooped is not a combination I think will work well in this case. It is not something I will have time to test out before the GB and I really doubt it will work (assumption) so it won't be offered this time. Sorry.

Thanks I missed it.

[Domantas]

I will probably skip minimal and get this because this one feels more refined XD even though I am not sure I will like kat but I like work dedicated to it already! But if it better version of OEM, I will probably like it

[Armaguard]

Ergo kits

• Ergo kits — Changed row number on bottom R1 to R2
  

  Are you sure you made this change? The bottom row keys are still labeled R1 in the kits.
• Most (all?) KAT sets with ergo kits so far have had the bottom row on the main clusters be R2.
• I believe this is so that the bottom row would be more comfortable to type on, and also so that it would be level with the R2 keys on the thumb clusters.
• Here is a photo of an ErgoDox set that uses a R1 bottom row instead of R2 (granted, this is OEM profile). The bottom row sort of sticks out.
• Action points: Change bottom row labels from R1 to R2 in Ergo.

There seems to be some disagreements on this. So will hold off for now and try to get this sorted asap. If any Ergo users here agree or disagree please voice your opinion.

I understand why you'd want to make it R2 to profile match the thumb cluster. But the argument about it being less comfortable to type on doesn't hold up for me personally. I almost exclusively use my thumbs on the thumb cluster so to me the additional angle of the bottom row would make it easier to hit with my fingers.
However to make it so that the caps are completely interchangeable from the bottom row to the thumb cluster and vice versa; that's probably the biggest reason I can see for having the profile as R2. This means that it will support significantly more potential configurations of the bottom row and thumb cluster.

Hopefully that makes sense!

[MacSurfy]

SEA proxy added!

Welcome HEXKeyboards.com ! Glad to have u along the ride.

[Kasterborous]

SEA proxy added!

Welcome HEXKeyboards.com ! Glad to have u along the ride.

Thanks

[Suavity]

Super glad that 3.00U keys are added in the space bar kit. 

[MacSurfy]

Kotai by stewiedk97

[KawabataLuis]

Looking dang good, looking a lot forward for this. Oof.

[SMW515]

Please can you separate out the UK ISO kit?

+1 for this.

The new renders are good, kit looks so clean, I can feel a lot of need for both WoB and BoW.

Yeah definitely support UK ISO being split out, pushes me in the way of KAT Monochrome if not

[MacSurfy]

Yeah definitely support UK ISO being split out, pushes me in the way of KAT Monochrome if not

We've reached my max amount of kits. I have tried to accomodate everyones wishes but there is a limit and the kits have been sent off for pricing already so not likely to see any changes unless an error somewhere is discovered. If UK is broken out, then why also not Germany, or the Nordics etc. The list goes on. You have basic ISO support available already.

Sorry but that's where we are at the moment. Hopefully u can accept that, if not go ahead with KAT Monochrome (threats won't make me change) 

Thank u!

[vurtomatic]

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