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Offline alaricljs

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« Reply #1150 on: Mon, 14 May 2012, 21:03:33 »
Quote from: laffindude;592730
You'll get more impactful and articulate bass with an amp. If bass is up your alley, then you picked the right cans.

Definitely found a track that will demonstrate the amp nicely for me: Moby - Flower, you might have heard it in the new Gone in 60 Seconds.  That track from Jamiroquai is a good listen, don't know that they would make it into my regular rotation.

As to my typical listening, that's tough.  Metallica - Death Magnetic (Moderus master) happens to be where I heard the difference in drums and positioning.  On the other side of the tracks (town/state/world?) is Wynton Marsalis - Baroque Music for Trumpets.  Very well balanced and detailed.  

A random selection of my collection I listened to recently:  Black Keys, Chris Cornell (solo, Audioslave and Soundgarden), Crystal Method, C-Tec (the ultimate in bass tests), Daft Punk, Juno Reactor, Massive Attack, NIN, Orbital, Pink Floyd, Tool, Rob Zombie...

sth - thanks for the suggestions.  Flaming Lips, found Soft Bulletin on youtube and ran away after 10 seconds.  Most Serene Republic gets put on the list of further investigation.  Preferably without all this pop/click crap from youtube.  Shellac gets on that list above MSR.  In hunting for 'Canon' I found nothing but horrid interpretations of it :(  Certainly not finding the two you mention worth a listen on YT... on the other hand, Moanin' sounds good, finding something comparable at random is not working out so well.
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Offline sth

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« Reply #1151 on: Mon, 14 May 2012, 21:35:31 »
Quote from: alaricljs;592899
Definitely found a track that will demonstrate the amp nicely for me: Moby - Flower, you might have heard it in the new Gone in 60 Seconds.  That track from Jamiroquai is a good listen, don't know that they would make it into my regular rotation.

As to my typical listening, that's tough.  Metallica - Death Magnetic (Moderus master) happens to be where I heard the difference in drums and positioning.  On the other side of the tracks (town/state/world?) is Wynton Marsalis - Baroque Music for Trumpets.  Very well balanced and detailed.  

A random selection of my collection I listened to recently:  Black Keys, Chris Cornell (solo, Audioslave and Soundgarden), Crystal Method, C-Tec (the ultimate in bass tests), Daft Punk, Juno Reactor, Massive Attack, NIN, Orbital, Pink Floyd, Tool, Rob Zombie...

sth - thanks for the suggestions.  Flaming Lips, found Soft Bulletin on youtube and ran away after 10 seconds.  Most Serene Republic gets put on the list of further investigation.  Preferably without all this pop/click crap from youtube.  Shellac gets on that list above MSR.  In hunting for 'Canon' I found nothing but horrid interpretations of it :(  Certainly not finding the two you mention worth a listen on YT... on the other hand, Moanin' sounds good, finding something comparable at random is not working out so well.

Try to find a copy of Mingus Moves. Preferably on vinyl, but FLAC (or at the very least v0) will do. Soft Bulletin/The Flaming Lips may not be your thing but The Soft Bulletin (especially the 5.1 demaster version) has a very unique sonic quality. Steven Drozd was a master of texture... then he stopped doing heroin. Good for him, bad for us.

I wouldn't trust 90% of masters from the last 20 years from any band on a major... read up on the loudness wars if you don't know what I'm talking about.

Judging by the stuff you've listed, I really doubt our musical tastes will mesh, and I'll refrain from commenting on everything except Metallica. Those dip****s wouldn't know a good mix if it were an axe between Lars Ulrich's eyes. The dude butchers the **** out of the drums too. Grumble.
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Offline alaricljs

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« Reply #1152 on: Mon, 14 May 2012, 22:28:39 »
Metallica - Hence why it's the Moderus master (long story short, the master tracks were released in Guitar Hero or something and some engineer dude mastered his own release.  Info has been posted to Metallica's own forums/site on where to get it and it hasn't been censored.)  Also interestingly enough the track I was enjoying the drums on is... drum light:  The Unforgiven III, lots of piano, strings, yeah really typical Metallica?  :)

edit: more Metallica - they released an EP w/ 4 more tracks that didn't make the original album.  Compared to the Moderus master they sound like muddy ****e mixed with asphalt.

Yes the loudness wars suck, wish it never happened, too bad a lot of the music I like participates in that war.  There's a whole lot more music that I can enjoy (like jazz) there's just certain genres than I can't enjoy unless that's all I'm doing (like jazz) and I don't have time for that unfortunately.  Hard enough to listen to classical without stopping what I'm doing.
« Last Edit: Mon, 14 May 2012, 22:32:11 by alaricljs »
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Offline sth

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« Reply #1153 on: Mon, 14 May 2012, 22:50:51 »
I was referring more to the sound that Lars makes with his drums period. I think it's terrible.
I'm on the other side of the fence re:loudness wars -- I generally find music released by people who care little enough about the sound of their record to be awfully boring. That includes bands that have signed to majors and effectively gave up on creative control of their art... but that's for another thread. To cut it short: hooray indy labels and the DIY scene.
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Offline laffindude

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« Reply #1154 on: Mon, 14 May 2012, 22:55:26 »
Listening to Rosanna on the original Toto IV pressing is quite a treat. Loudness war sucks.
However I don't think modern mastering technique is necessarily bad. Only when the compressor is used excessively. Many jazz albums are mastered pretty decently. It has that "modern sound" without being hypersquished. Say, something like Ray Charles' Genius loves company. Diana Krall's albums are equally wonderful.
On the opposite end of the scale. RHCP's I'm with you was atrocious. Lenny's Black and white America. Ew (though I did enjoy some songs with that "compressed sound" like Superlove).

Offline rknize

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« Reply #1155 on: Thu, 17 May 2012, 10:18:45 »
So I've decided that these HD-558s are too laid back for low-volume playing.  When I crank them, they do sound quite good.  However at low volumes they are rather boring.  Part of the problem might be the background office noise mixing with the music.  The M50s are more intimate (being closed-back), but not as detailed and not as comfortable.

I usually listen to high-energy music while coding (hard rock, death/hair metal, trance), but I prefer to do it at lower volumes to save my ears.  They also need to be comfortable, since I wear them for many hours at a time.  Suggestions?
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Offline mkawa

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« Reply #1156 on: Thu, 17 May 2012, 10:21:47 »
i like canalphones for offices. my office phones are etymotics hf-2s with the comply wax guard tips. comfortable, wildly isolating, can get basically any volume i want, from white noise to ear shattering from an iphone. open phones don't really work well for offices unless you have a private office and a heavy door

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Offline alaricljs

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« Reply #1157 on: Thu, 17 May 2012, 11:00:12 »
My DT770s are comfy and closed... but having zero experience with decent headphones, can't say how they would compare for you.  They do low volume well.  Compared to the Sony MDR-NC50s I had been using....

bass: cleaner, more responsive, deeper extension
mids: other than a much more accurate sound stage, nothing really to report
highs: no complaints in regards to shrillness or any imbalance wrt bass/mids

They are very detailed and do wonderfully with anything I've pumped through them.  They are also very revealing of the quality of my collection.

edit: and one other note - the velour makes them rather warm (temperature) but I got used to it fairly quickly.  I only overheat if I also have the cat in my lap.
« Last Edit: Thu, 17 May 2012, 11:05:08 by alaricljs »
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Offline laffindude

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« Reply #1158 on: Thu, 17 May 2012, 11:07:37 »
Quote from: rknize;594608
So I've decided that these HD-558s are too laid back for low-volume playing.  When I crank them, they do sound quite good.  However at low volumes they are rather boring.  Part of the problem might be the background office noise mixing with the music.  The M50s are more intimate (being closed-back), but not as detailed and not as comfortable.

I usually listen to high-energy music while coding (hard rock, death/hair metal, trance), but I prefer to do it at lower volumes to save my ears.  They also need to be comfortable, since I wear them for many hours at a time.  Suggestions?


I am a low volume listener as well. DT990pro is my personal favorite for that. Though they're open so may not be desirable to you. You can try DT770pro like alaricljs if you need some more isolation. I like a bit more basshump for low level listening, so I'd suggest the Pro 80ohm. Pro versions have a tighter clamp, so you'd want to stretch the spring steel headband until desired clamp is achieved. Not sure if it matters, but these Beyers are built like tanks (and easily repaired with replacement parts).

Offline alaricljs

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« Reply #1159 on: Thu, 17 May 2012, 11:47:27 »
The Pro's are tighter?  My head must be tiny then, this is the most gentle over-ear I could imagine.  My Sonys and my industrial ear protection is far tighter than this.  I have the 250ohm Pro.
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Offline laffindude

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« Reply #1160 on: Thu, 17 May 2012, 12:02:42 »
Premium edition are even gentler on the ears. Keep in mind a lot of the sealed (not just closed like DT770) headphones and hearing protections need the tight clamp to maintain the seal for isolation.

Offline mkawa

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« Reply #1161 on: Thu, 17 May 2012, 13:18:33 »
i've heard good things about the dt770s. i believe my officemate has a pair. if you like the beyer sound and closed circumaural thing, stick to it.

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Offline rknize

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« Reply #1162 on: Thu, 17 May 2012, 13:38:24 »
Guess I won't know until I try them.  Sounds like they are quite colored, but that is probably good for low volume.
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Offline mkawa

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« Reply #1163 on: Thu, 17 May 2012, 13:46:55 »
Actually neutral tends to be better for low volume because there are no valleys in the frequency response that you need to compensate for

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Offline rknize

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« Reply #1164 on: Thu, 17 May 2012, 13:50:11 »
Anyone ever try the DT880s?
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Offline laffindude

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« Reply #1165 on: Thu, 17 May 2012, 14:11:56 »
Yes. They're on my head at the moment.
In comparison to DT990pro:
880 has slightly less airy sound, but more "flat" sounding sound-signature.
less bass and less treble. 600ohm version has sliiiiightly more bass punch.
Probably my favorite mid-fi phone.

DT770 is the odd ball out in term of sound signature in the xx0 family.
DT770 has a huge midrange suckout, even more so than the 990. 880 is the most "neutralish" one.
Closed phone sounds closed ;p
DT880 has no isolation to speak of.
I don't know what is it about the 770, it just isn't my cup of tea.

DT880's pro version is the most similar to premium version versus the others. 770 and 990 are basically using older version's cups, where the 880 pro uses the same as current Premiums. It just have different headband padding and clamp.
Pro versions have the curly cord that I like more than straight cords.

Offline rknize

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« Reply #1166 on: Thu, 17 May 2012, 15:15:12 »
Thanks for that.  My office isn't *that* noisy.  I do have a lot of PCs in here, and so there is some background fan noise (especially the SAS array on my build machine).  I do like being able to hear when people approach with the HD-558s and the old Koss phones that I had.  People often sneak up on me when I use the HD-428s or the M50s.

I think/hope it's the laid-back sound that is the issue.  From what I gather, Beyerdynamic tends to have a fairly U-shaped response in this range and that the DT880 is the least so.  Maybe I will give them a try.
Russ

Offline laffindude

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« Reply #1167 on: Thu, 17 May 2012, 15:29:26 »
I hope you can try before you buy. D2000 has very modest isolation, and has a mild smilie faced response. May be it'll block out just enough day to day sound, but enough to hear what's going on around you.

Offline rknize

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« Reply #1168 on: Thu, 17 May 2012, 16:05:34 »
Pretty tough to find a place that can demo all these different types.  Thanks, though.
Russ

Offline rknize

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« Reply #1169 on: Thu, 17 May 2012, 16:50:12 »
I assume you are referring to the Denon AH-D2000?  Do you have those?  How would you characterize their sound as compared to the DT880?  The seem to have a good reputation, aside from that pesky screw.
Russ

Offline laffindude

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« Reply #1170 on: Thu, 17 May 2012, 17:23:21 »
Yes I am talking about the Denon D2000.
I like the DT880's trade offs more than D2000. D2000's bass seems to dig deeper without being excessive. DT880 have the midbass hump to give it that punch. 880 is probably more exciting sounding.
Midrange, I call it a wash. D2000 sounds warmer to me.
Treble. Here is the main difference to me. DT880 has a characteristic Beyer 8.5k treble spike. The tiss from cymbals can get a little annoying (you can eq or use some tube magic here). D2000 is pretty laid back through the treble, without being overly dark. Edit: Not implying these are dark phones. They are only dark compared to the trebly Beyers.

Taken as a whole, D2000 is pretty blend sounding. How you like it depends on your ears. It is actually not a closed headphone, only almost closed. There is a strip of gap around the plastic outer part that lets air through. So it does isolate, but not to any great extent. Soundstaging is pretty good, perhaps lacks a bit of depth. Pretty flat sounding with a slight warm tilt. My only complain about it is that the bass can sound a bit loose and unrefined. If you want a more exciting sound, may be these are not for you.

Offline rknize

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« Reply #1171 on: Thu, 17 May 2012, 19:30:50 »
Well, I have the Senns if I want laid back.  I'm not very thrilled with the low impedance, either.  Driving the D2000 OTL would be a challenge.
Russ

Offline laffindude

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« Reply #1172 on: Thu, 17 May 2012, 22:38:18 »
Definitely. 600ohm Beyer on the other hand are perfect for those OTL amps.

Offline SmallFry

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« Reply #1173 on: Fri, 18 May 2012, 18:47:21 »
If anyone has a pair of Bose OE2i's PM me please!

Offline NamelessPFG

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« Reply #1174 on: Sat, 19 May 2012, 17:57:01 »
I wish I had $550 right now. This is why I try not to browse Head-Fi's B/S/T section; I get too tempted to spend money again.

Never mind that I already have a similar setup; it wouldn't hurt to have a backup.

Offline alaricljs

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« Reply #1175 on: Sat, 19 May 2012, 23:44:33 »
These Beyers are revealing what crap Netflix streams...  but I'm still happy ;)
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Offline ironman31

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« Reply #1176 on: Sun, 20 May 2012, 09:54:51 »
Just bought a pair of Shure srh840's for 130 USD from Guitar Center. I tried these and some Audio Technica ATH-M50s'. The m50 felt a little distorted in the treble and the sound was a little too upfront for my liking. They weren't bad at all, but I think I prefer the 840's. They sounded a little muffled at the store with my ipod, but for some reason at home there is no recession of the upper end. I'm playing them out of Wyred4Sound DAC2 -> Violectric V200. I also feel like they 'ring' a bit in the lower mids to upper bass, but that could just be because I'm used to the LCD-2's
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Offline rknize

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« Reply #1177 on: Sun, 20 May 2012, 13:55:28 »
The Matrix Mini-i came in the other day.  The Senns sound amazing when driven by this thing.  I have to play them pretty loud, but wow.  Awesome sound stage and great/natural bass extension.  Live recordings are almost as good as my system downstairs.
Russ

Offline litster

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« Reply #1178 on: Mon, 21 May 2012, 01:14:26 »
I have recently read a good number of headphone reviews.  I have no idea what the reviewers talk about. The adjectives used in these reviews are: warm, tight, fast, laid back, etc.  I think I will need to get a couple of different headphones to begin to understand what they mean.

Offline rknize

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« Reply #1179 on: Mon, 21 May 2012, 10:32:44 »
Audio reviews are generally to be taken with a grain of salt.  Many of the finer points are highly subjective.  However, when it comes to speakers and headphones, the differences are often much more obvious.  In any case, it's hard to put audio attributes into words.  A lot of audio reviews take advantage of this fact and spew a lot of meaningless nonsense.  But yes, it's best to hear the differences for yourself.

I'll take a stab at a few of the terms, FWIW:

"forward" vs "laid back" - taken to the extreme, having your head right next to the speakers versus listening from another room.  The instruments feel like they are firing at you, instead of you trying to make them out in the distance.  Forward can be more fun and more detailed (easier to pick out instruments and performers), but a more laid-back sound is probably more "natural".

"fast" and "tight" are often used to refer to the bass.  It has to do with how the movement and control of the speaker cone interacts with the speaker's own natural resonance.  A lot of things besides the speaker itself impact this, including the design of the cabinet, the impedance and current capability of the amp, interconnect impedance, etc.  For headphones, I think it has most to do with the first two, since the mass of the speaker cone is so low.

Another one you'll hear is the "sound stage".  It's how deep and how wide the virtual sound stage seems.  For a live recording, this would correspond to the actual stage.  For a studio recording, it's all in the magic of what the sound engineer did.  How can you have 3D sound with only two speakers?  Well, you only have two ears.  For good recording, the 3D information is there.  It's a matter of getting to your ears without losing it along the way.  The speakers probably have the most influence on this, since they introduce the most distortion into the source by far.
Russ

Offline laffindude

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« Reply #1180 on: Mon, 21 May 2012, 10:58:46 »
Imaging belongs under soundstage too. Sound stage is not only how wide it is, but also depth. How far is each instrument is from you. This is usually the Achilles heel of headphones. Our brain works out the slight difference in time sound arrive to each ear to pin point the exact location of the sound. Headphone does not let you hear sounds from the other channel to work out this information (without crossfeed). This extreme stereo separation can fatigue your ears. They can also make center sounds that seems to come at you from 11 and 1 oclock at the same time (incoherent center stage, which is why I hate K701).

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Offline mkawa

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« Reply #1181 on: Mon, 21 May 2012, 11:18:26 »
i do my best to refrain from attempting to interpret other's impressions of audio gear. audio reproduction is hopelessly complex that even the best objective measurements we have are woefully inadequate, much less the wildly subjective ones. however, there are a couple terms that i feel are pretty reasonable:

"low-end" behavior when signal is around 1-500hz
"mid-range" behavior when signal is around 500-12khz
"high-end" 12-20khz

"warm" amplitude response when signal is in mid-range is unusually high (w/rt high/low end)
"laid-back" amplitude response in mid/low frequency domain is similar, but low-end rolls off at a particularly high frequency (and note that _every_ headphone has 3db roll-off by 75hz)
"rock" low amplitude response in high-end
"peaky" high amplitude response in the high-end

there are other valid terms in the frequency domain as well but they're not coming to mind.. there are also terms that refer to distortion in the time domain. i'm of the opinion that most of these terms refer to ringing at various frequencies..

"bass smearing" low-frequency reproduction tends to ring
"tight" low-frequencies do not tend to ring
"fast" high-frequencies do not tend to ring
"sibilant" high-frequencies tend to ring

"soundstage" refers to spatial reproduction, but i have no idea how one models this, or even reproduces it, since i don't really understand how humans localize audio, but do know that involves the shape of the ear; imo, all bets are off on this one, except that the further the drivers are from your ear, the better the potential for spatial reproduction.

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Offline litster

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« Reply #1182 on: Mon, 21 May 2012, 13:42:33 »
Thanks for the explanation, guys.  I will have to match them up with what I hear.

Offline dmbr

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« Reply #1183 on: Thu, 24 May 2012, 16:16:33 »
Grado 225i's for music, Audiotechnica ATH-AD700's and Sennheiser 380HD's for gaming.

I use a modded Xonar ST sound card when not listening to vinyl B)

Offline rknize

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« Reply #1184 on: Thu, 24 May 2012, 17:17:19 »
I tried-out the DT 880s at a local Brookstone.  They seemed to have a fairly flat response and were relatively comfortable.  I like the velure pads.  I ordered the 250-ohm Pro version from B&H, because I wanted a coiled cord and an input impedance that was a reasonable compromise.  I'm pretty happy with them so far.  Not so laid-back as the Senns, which makes them a bit more engaging at low volume.  Fairly flat response, unlike the bass-bloated M50s or the overly-warm Senns.  Not as open as the Senns and not as intimate as the M50s.  Decent compromise, overall.  Clearly a studio headphone.  I think I'm good, now.  :)
Russ

Offline jonnybastard

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« Reply #1185 on: Thu, 24 May 2012, 20:27:06 »
Good choice, 880's are easily my favorite pair of cans.
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Offline NamelessPFG

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« Reply #1186 on: Thu, 24 May 2012, 22:36:25 »
Quote from: laffindude;597074
Imaging belongs under soundstage too. Sound stage is not only how wide it is, but also depth. How far is each instrument is from you.

This is usually the Achilles heel of headphones. Our brain works out the slight difference in time sound arrive to each ear to pin point the exact location of the sound. Headphone does not let you hear sounds from the other channel to work out this information (without crossfeed). This extreme stereo separation can fatigue your ears. They can also make center sounds that seems to come at you from 11 and 1 oclock at the same time (incoherent center stage, which is why I hate K701).
Ironically, this is also why binaural sources are generally mixed for headphones only. That very property of hearing sounds from the other channel in both ears (which is how we're able to tell what direction they're coming from in the first place, and what binaural methods act on) makes binaural mixing for stereo speakers significantly more complicated compared to headphones, because now you have to factor in crosstalk cancellation and whatnot. It's not impossible, though, hence QSound and other such processing methods.

The problem with this? Well, there just aren't that many binaural sources to begin with, aside from a select few music albums and older PC games (back when DirectSound3D and OpenAL were still in common use, and thus the 3D sound information can easily be mixed into any format the sound device desires instead of being constrained to 7.1 and one-dimensional stereo headphone panning).

This subject also makes me think about the endearingly atmospheric presentation of my vintage Stax Lambda, which could actually be a trait of electrostatics in general. Instead of the sound being forced and thrown into your ears, it sort of just flows in instead. Fortunately, in spite of this rather spatial-sounding presentation, the center stage never sounds incoherent to me. Very whole, no gaps.

Offline dmbr

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Headphone Thread.
« Reply #1187 on: Fri, 25 May 2012, 00:21:22 »
Pardon the tangent, but speaking of surround sound with headphones, this is worth checking out: http://www.head-fi.org/t/447089/5-1-headphone-experience-foobar-configuration-for-all-stereo-music-files

Offline mkawa

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« Reply #1188 on: Fri, 25 May 2012, 09:52:16 »
weird.

personally, i don't find localization to be all that important. i guess i'm just more of a composition and timbre nerd

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline dmbr

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Headphone Thread.
« Reply #1189 on: Fri, 25 May 2012, 15:08:51 »
For me, the difference between surround and stereo is as big as stereo vs mono. It really makes certain songs and genres come alive.

Albums that are carefully mixed for 5.1 sound amazing with Dolby Headphone. The Crystal Method does stunning things with it...voices and little trails of reverb swimming around your head in perfect rhythm...if you're not tripping already you will be.

Offline NamelessPFG

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Headphone Thread.
« Reply #1190 on: Fri, 25 May 2012, 22:43:57 »
For music, I don't prioritize localization over things like sound signature and whatnot, but for gaming, I most certainly do.

Binaural surround filters like CMSS-3D Headphone or Dolby Headphone can be like aural wallhacks with the right headphones.

I'll have to admit that I've never heard any songs mixed with 5.1 in mind, though. The only ones I've encountered are stereo, with the occasional binaural recording.

Offline jwaz

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Headphone Thread.
« Reply #1191 on: Wed, 30 May 2012, 16:22:51 »
Has anyone hapened to check out the monoprice headphones people are so impressed with? I'm really tempted to get them as a beater pair.

Offline litster

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Headphone Thread.
« Reply #1192 on: Wed, 30 May 2012, 20:00:21 »
I came across this blog post on objective vs subject review on hi fi gear.  My day job involves a lot proving and validating quality with numbers so this post really resonates with me.

And then I read this WA5 headphone amp review on headfonia.com:

Quote
At the current state, I think the number is close to $6,000. Yes, four times the price of the Sennheiser HD800. No wonder it sounds so good.


Yes, I am a skeptic right now.  How could I trust any of these subjective reviews?

Offline laffindude

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Headphone Thread.
« Reply #1193 on: Thu, 31 May 2012, 04:35:36 »
You don't. There is a conflict of interest. They depend on advertising dollars, so how honest do you think they will be. Audiophile stuff is full of placebos and snake oils. Some sites to stay away from: Headfi, headphonia, 6moons. (There is a lot of astroturfer on headfi).
If people claim they can hear interconnect cable difference. It is time to walk away. http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm http://www.changstar.com/

Offline mkawa

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« Reply #1194 on: Thu, 31 May 2012, 06:59:19 »
nwavguy has his own interests to defend.

this is why i stick to the old school diy scene.

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline laffindude

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« Reply #1195 on: Thu, 31 May 2012, 10:05:43 »
DIYers are not free from placebo and snake oil. I don't like nwavguy myself, but he has a pretty good point about the active ground loved by the DIY community (and used in your Pimeta2).

Offline mkawa

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« Reply #1196 on: Thu, 31 May 2012, 10:28:46 »
i'm still not sure what his point about active grounds is. he says "yah, it makes sense for battery powered amps". note that most of the old diy designs are battery powered. then there's some stuff about crosstalk, and then he has some dubious measurements of a mini3 driven out of spec.

the difference is that in the old days, there wasn't really any money involved (or if there was it all went directly to mouser/digikey and the pcb houses lol) and people didn't feel the need to disparage other people's designs.

until you commercialize them, circuits are circuits, and just behave as they behave. you're curious, so you build one, and then you're a bit more curious so you build and measure ten more. you listen to them and think a bit and that's how you have fun. my point is that nwavguy is clearly commercializing and productizing his designs, no matter what their objective merits might be. in his world, you have a limited budget for audio hardware and he wants it to be devoted to his circuits.

go check out an archive of the old headwize product pages (i think kevin gilmore maintains these now) to see how it used to be done. it was more like "oh, i built your circuit and this is what i thought, but then i had this cool idea, because i wanted MORE BASS" and ta-da, apheared's a47

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline Ragnorock

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Headphone Thread.
« Reply #1197 on: Thu, 31 May 2012, 10:53:13 »
Call me materialistic, but looks were a factor in choosing my headphones and amp setup. I could have been blissfully happy with just my k701s and ****ty FiiO amp, but I wanted something more prestigious. When I saw how badass the WA6 looked with the Sophia, I decided I wanted one, as expensive as it was for the utility I would likely get out of it. Worse still, I learned the better match for my cans was nearly double the price, and I still didn't mind, I just hunted for a good deal on Head-Fi until I found one (I paid about MSRP for mine but it came with about $800 of tubes and was mint.) I knew that like mech keyboards, amps hold their value really well, so if I was ever in a bind I could sell it, but I haven't wanted to yet, and there's always someone wondering what the hell it is.

As far as the comments about Head-Fi et. al., of course you should take everything at face value. I do go over there for reviews on audio gear, mostly cans, but I always sift through several opinions to get the best idea possible, all the while knowing that these guys are all biased because that's what they like. Considering that we all are biased into mech boards here, its pretty easy to relate with that. If I was to come in here preaching that membranes are just as easy to type fast on as mechanicals, and that everything we like here is a ridiculous waste of money and we're slaves to SP, CClack and EK etc, we'd all be in an uproar over it. In the end, we're a community of enthusiasts, and so are they.

That said, some caveats:

Use monoprice interconnect cables until you have the discretionary income to the point of where you want to be able to point out your pretentious cables that look awesomer. For actual headphone cables though, you can hear noticeable difference by upgrading the cable if it isn't matched to the cans. For example with the Sennheiser HD800, the gauge of the cable isn't thick enough to carry the proper current for the bass response, so upgrading from the stock cable helps significantly. This is something I noted universally so I can say that with confidence. I hope that makes sense.

Snake oil is everywhere, but it is much more common in audio gear because its so preferential. However there is a distinction to be made between that and the mass market products like beats, which many owners will say are awesome. That makes me die a little inside because having compared them to what I have, I know that what I hear is not snake oil, and their opinions are simply ignorant of the truth.

I think the best way to make subjective things like audio component reviews more objective is to count them. If a lot of people, whom, while biased, have very discriminating tastes, all like something, then there's a pretty good chance that you'll like it too.

Offline litster

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Headphone Thread.
« Reply #1198 on: Thu, 31 May 2012, 10:54:59 »
According to nwavguy and jdslabs, nwavguy doesn't make any money from O2 or ODAC.  He seems to have only his reputation to defend, no money.

He is out there with numbers, repeatable numbers.  I like to see that from commercial manufacturers.

Offline laffindude

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Headphone Thread.
« Reply #1199 on: Thu, 31 May 2012, 11:07:21 »
Not sure I agree about he is disparaging other's designs for his own gain. He is not the only guy who is not doing active ground designs. I think he is doing it for his own ego. Circuits are just circuits. They sound the same whether or not you commercialize it. FUD is always around in the audiophile domain regardless. If he wants to sell his designs, good for him. It doesn't make active ground have more or less stereo crosstalk than it has right now.