On backspace keys: Which one do you prefer and why: 1u / 2u row 1, 1.5 row 2.

[ideus]

The standard backspace is on row 1 and it is 2 units long in ANSI, for ISO you could find the same or a 1u one; also, the HHKB layout has popularized the use of 1.5u row 2 backspace, which one and why do you prefer?

[rowdy]

US ANSI layout with 2x Backspace.

Years ago I alternated between keyboards with various layouts, including 1x Backspace (with 1x \| to its left), and 2x Backspace.

I think most of the keyboards had 2x Backspace, and I just became more and more used to that layout, to the point of greatly preferring it.

[ideus]

I feel close to that, now, I use the HHKB layout with 1.5 units row 2 backspace and an ANSO layout with 2 units row 1 one, I feel I bit better with the later one.

[vvp]

It is best when it is on a split space bar. 2x ANSI is the second option.

[Findecanor]

for ISO you could find the same or a 1u one

Nitpicker here... Typical ISO keyboards for Windows PCs use 2u Backspace keys. It is JIS layout that has a 1u Backspace. Apple has 1.5u in ANSI and ISO but 1u in JIS.

Applying Fitt's law, the time it takes to hit a key is a function of the the ratio between the distance from a finger and the size of the key. Therefore, a 2u Backspace is objectively easier to hit than a 1u Backspace because it is both bigger and closer to the hand. There is not a big difference between a HHKB-style Backspace and a 2u Backspace.

Splitting the Space Bar is hugely superior though - because the thumb is already on Backspace, and those keys also tend to be larger than 2u.

BTW, different keycap manufacturers number rows in different ways. Signature Plastics starts with the numeric row as row 1 and WASD keyboards starts with he Space Bar row as row 1.
There is an ISO/IEC standard for keyboard row (and key) labelling though, and that is to use letters of the alphabet. with Row A is the Space bar's and row E is the numeric row. Cherry, Topre and Leopold use ISO labelling for their keycaps. (ISO calls the function-key row "row K" though (...) but everyone would understand if you would say "Row F" or "F-Row".)

[xondat]

I prefer the HHKB style backspace, much easier to use as it's closer and I can stay on the home row (I have smaller hands ).

[suicidal_orange]

As an ISO user who presses the big enter at the top I got my head around backspace being in row 2, but I couldn't stop hitting enter in the same place so out of the choices given 2u row 1 for me.

That said all my programmable boards have Colemak backspace (caps lock) as I type more than I use ctrl and caps lock is a waste of a key.

[Findecanor]

That said all my programmable boards have Colemak backspace (caps lock) [...]

I wonder, do you prefer a stepped or a full-width Colemak backspace key?

[algernon]

1u/2u on the thumb cluster. Size doesn't matter, just the position.

[suicidal_orange]

That said all my programmable boards have Colemak backspace (caps lock) [...]

I wonder, do you prefer a stepped or a full-width Colemak backspace key?

Full size - why move further than you have to

[davkol]

Thumb keys aside, like on ANSI HHKB, but I use a wide mod, i.e., my right-hand-side keys are shifted one column to the right, thus I get to reach the spacebar from the home-row resting position without moving/rotating the whole arm (besides the benefit of extra hand separation).

I've switched from Colemak's CapsLock-as-Backpace to this, because it's a better utilization of available space: modifier on CapsLock, Backspace on backslash and backslash anywhere else (e.g., closer on a layer).

[Fictiouz]

HHKB backspace all the way. It is much more practical and a lot comfier to use. Not as straining to  reach and even on larger layouts I would much prefer it. I have been coding on this layout for quite sometime at this point and if I was to stop now there would be utter chaos in my typing patterns.

[FoxWolf1]

2U backspace, big enter, and \ moved to a more sensible place. For instance, next to /, just like < is next to >, and [ is next to ], and ( is next to ).

[Niomosy]

ANSI backspace for me, mostly due to layout.  I used the UNIX style backspace that the HHKB uses for years in the 90s and was never a huge fan of it.  I could use it but I'd rather the \| be more accessible to me than the backspace.  As a UNIX admin, I use the \| key rather heavily for a living.

[ideus]

ANSI backspace for me, mostly due to layout.  I used the UNIX style backspace that the HHKB uses for years in the 90s and was never a huge fan of it.  I could use it but I'd rather the \| be more accessible to me than the backspace.  As a UNIX admin, I use the \| key rather heavily for a living.

It is very interesting to learn that even after years of use you prefer the ANSI to the UNIX back space, I can use both and I have one keyboard with each one, but gravitate mostly to the first one. Even when it is a bit farther from the home row, its size and the placement at the corner makes it easier to type on, also, along with a fat enter you can enjoy the pleasure of a secure, strong and firm hit on both of them.

[ReverbSlush]

1.5u row 2  HHKB style for me.  Once I switched I never wanted to go back. 

[ideus]

If you use contoured key caps, like Cherry profile, first row two units back space, the ANSI one, and one and a half second row back space, UNIX style, differ not only in size and position, also in shape, the first one is taller and takes your hits easily. I use both; again, I tend to prefer the taller and larger one.

[E3E]

I like both the standard Row 1 2u backspace and the HHKB-style Row 2 1.5u backspace. 
 
However, I was also fine with Row 1 1u backspaces from some vintage Alps boards. I'm not very picky layout-wise. ANSI, ISO, JIS. Whatever. I'm fine with it.

[aaron6301]

1.5u Row 2 Backspace. It's easier for my pinky to hit BS although there was a bit of a learning curve. Often, I would hit Enter rather than BS which caused some errors.

[Auxo]

HHKB style here
Still waiting on my JTK Soph set to throw on to show the proper backspace legend

[rowdy]

Oh yeah, HHKB backspace is great too

I've stopped doing \\\\\\ when I switch back to a TKL layout, but I think I still prefer the TKL backspace as I've been using it for far longer than my HHKB.

[ideus]

HHKB style here
Still waiting on my JTK Soph set to throw on to show the proper backspace legend
(Attachment Link)

Here you have an image to keep you motivated:

[Fictiouz]

Oh yeah, HHKB backspace is great too

I've stopped doing \\\\\\ when I switch back to a TKL layout, but I think I still prefer the TKL backspace as I've been using it for far longer than my HHKB.

I do split backspace even on TKL now. I'm so weird. My RS96 which I'm using right now is also split backspace )

[ideus]

Oh yeah, HHKB backspace is great too

I've stopped doing \\\\\\ when I switch back to a TKL layout, but I think I still prefer the TKL backspace as I've been using it for far longer than my HHKB.

I do split backspace even on TKL now. I'm so weird. My RS96 which I'm using right now is also split backspace )

Do you mean a small arrow in the top right of your alpha area?

[Fictiouz]

Oh yeah, HHKB backspace is great too

I've stopped doing \\\\\\ when I switch back to a TKL layout, but I think I still prefer the TKL backspace as I've been using it for far longer than my HHKB.

I do split backspace even on TKL now. I'm so weird. My RS96 which I'm using right now is also split backspace )

Do you mean a small arrow in the top right of your alpha area?

No, HHKB style.

[ideus]

Oh yeah, HHKB backspace is great too

I've stopped doing \\\\\\ when I switch back to a TKL layout, but I think I still prefer the TKL backspace as I've been using it for far longer than my HHKB.

I do split backspace even on TKL now. I'm so weird. My RS96 which I'm using right now is also split backspace )

Do you mean a small arrow in the top right of your alpha area?

No, HHKB style.

Ah! Of course.

[Fictiouz]

Oh yeah, HHKB backspace is great too

I've stopped doing \\\\\\ when I switch back to a TKL layout, but I think I still prefer the TKL backspace as I've been using it for far longer than my HHKB.

I do split backspace even on TKL now. I'm so weird. My RS96 which I'm using right now is also split backspace )

Do you mean a small arrow in the top right of your alpha area?

No, HHKB style.

Ah! Of course.

1u Row 1 Backspace is just weird

[Niomosy]

ANSI backspace for me, mostly due to layout.  I used the UNIX style backspace that the HHKB uses for years in the 90s and was never a huge fan of it.  I could use it but I'd rather the \| be more accessible to me than the backspace.  As a UNIX admin, I use the \| key rather heavily for a living.

It is very interesting to learn that even after years of use you prefer the ANSI to the UNIX back space, I can use both and I have one keyboard with each one, but gravitate mostly to the first one. Even when it is a bit farther from the home row, its size and the placement at the corner makes it easier to type on, also, along with a fat enter you can enjoy the pleasure of a secure, strong and firm hit on both of them.

Honestly, on the command-line, I'm more in need of the | symbol than I am of the backspace.  I have Ctrl-B for backspace if under the typical settings under Bash (though my team seem to prefer set -o vi... so I always have to set -o emacs again).  That or if I've really botched a line, Ctrl-U will clear the line completely regardless of shell - also works at the login prompt for mis-typed passwords. 

Like I said, I've used the layout since 1994 when I was first dealing with Sun systems and still have a Sun 5 keyboard with the layout in the closet for the old Ultra 60 that never gets fired up any longer.  I'd use it if I had to for whatever reason but even Sun ended up switching out for ANSI later on.

[ideus]

ANSI backspace for me, mostly due to layout.  I used the UNIX style backspace that the HHKB uses for years in the 90s and was never a huge fan of it.  I could use it but I'd rather the \| be more accessible to me than the backspace.  As a UNIX admin, I use the \| key rather heavily for a living.

It is very interesting to learn that even after years of use you prefer the ANSI to the UNIX back space, I can use both and I have one keyboard with each one, but gravitate mostly to the first one. Even when it is a bit farther from the home row, its size and the placement at the corner makes it easier to type on, also, along with a fat enter you can enjoy the pleasure of a secure, strong and firm hit on both of them.

Honestly, on the command-line, I'm more in need of the | symbol than I am of the backspace.  I have Ctrl-B for backspace if under the typical settings under Bash (though my team seem to prefer set -o vi... so I always have to set -o emacs again).  That or if I've really botched a line, Ctrl-U will clear the line completely regardless of shell - also works at the login prompt for mis-typed passwords. 

Like I said, I've used the layout since 1994 when I was first dealing with Sun systems and still have a Sun 5 keyboard with the layout in the closet for the old Ultra 60 that never gets fired up any longer.  I'd use it if I had to for whatever reason but even Sun ended up switching out for ANSI later on.

The pipe deserves its own key; however, it should be a one unit key, I do not see why it should be any larger.

[Niomosy]

ANSI backspace for me, mostly due to layout.  I used the UNIX style backspace that the HHKB uses for years in the 90s and was never a huge fan of it.  I could use it but I'd rather the \| be more accessible to me than the backspace.  As a UNIX admin, I use the \| key rather heavily for a living.

It is very interesting to learn that even after years of use you prefer the ANSI to the UNIX back space, I can use both and I have one keyboard with each one, but gravitate mostly to the first one. Even when it is a bit farther from the home row, its size and the placement at the corner makes it easier to type on, also, along with a fat enter you can enjoy the pleasure of a secure, strong and firm hit on both of them.

Honestly, on the command-line, I'm more in need of the | symbol than I am of the backspace.  I have Ctrl-B for backspace if under the typical settings under Bash (though my team seem to prefer set -o vi... so I always have to set -o emacs again).  That or if I've really botched a line, Ctrl-U will clear the line completely regardless of shell - also works at the login prompt for mis-typed passwords. 

Like I said, I've used the layout since 1994 when I was first dealing with Sun systems and still have a Sun 5 keyboard with the layout in the closet for the old Ultra 60 that never gets fired up any longer.  I'd use it if I had to for whatever reason but even Sun ended up switching out for ANSI later on.

The pipe deserves its own key; however, it should be a one unit key, I do not see why it should be any larger.

I would be fine with the pipe as a one-unit key.  It's a 1.5u key more due to the ANSI layout than anything.  US ISO would certainly be interesting.  It's possible but with me being in the US, ANSI is readily available and easier on the wallet for keycap sets.

[Laurel]

Remap pipe to backspace.

[ideus]

ANSI backspace for me, mostly due to layout.  I used the UNIX style backspace that the HHKB uses for years in the 90s and was never a huge fan of it.  I could use it but I'd rather the \| be more accessible to me than the backspace.  As a UNIX admin, I use the \| key rather heavily for a living.

It is very interesting to learn that even after years of use you prefer the ANSI to the UNIX back space, I can use both and I have one keyboard with each one, but gravitate mostly to the first one. Even when it is a bit farther from the home row, its size and the placement at the corner makes it easier to type on, also, along with a fat enter you can enjoy the pleasure of a secure, strong and firm hit on both of them.

Honestly, on the command-line, I'm more in need of the | symbol than I am of the backspace.  I have Ctrl-B for backspace if under the typical settings under Bash (though my team seem to prefer set -o vi... so I always have to set -o emacs again).  That or if I've really botched a line, Ctrl-U will clear the line completely regardless of shell - also works at the login prompt for mis-typed passwords. 

Like I said, I've used the layout since 1994 when I was first dealing with Sun systems and still have a Sun 5 keyboard with the layout in the closet for the old Ultra 60 that never gets fired up any longer.  I'd use it if I had to for whatever reason but even Sun ended up switching out for ANSI later on.

The pipe deserves its own key; however, it should be a one unit key, I do not see why it should be any larger.

I would be fine with the pipe as a one-unit key.  It's a 1.5u key more due to the ANSI layout than anything.  US ISO would certainly be interesting.  It's possible but with me being in the US, ANSI is readily available and easier on the wallet for keycap sets.

[Niomosy]

That wouldn't be a bad layout in all honesty.  I would imagine it would take some slight adjustments going from a bit more stretch to stacking the pinky/ring fingers on the right hand. 

[ideus]

That wouldn't be a bad layout in all honesty.  I would imagine it would take some slight adjustments going from a bit more stretch to stacking the pinky/ring fingers on the right hand.

The ample area to type on the Enter key makes adjusting to it a breeze. I like the 1.5 Unix style backspace; but, this is pretty intuitive.

[rowdy]

ANSI backspace for me, mostly due to layout.  I used the UNIX style backspace that the HHKB uses for years in the 90s and was never a huge fan of it.  I could use it but I'd rather the \| be more accessible to me than the backspace.  As a UNIX admin, I use the \| key rather heavily for a living.

It is very interesting to learn that even after years of use you prefer the ANSI to the UNIX back space, I can use both and I have one keyboard with each one, but gravitate mostly to the first one. Even when it is a bit farther from the home row, its size and the placement at the corner makes it easier to type on, also, along with a fat enter you can enjoy the pleasure of a secure, strong and firm hit on both of them.

Honestly, on the command-line, I'm more in need of the | symbol than I am of the backspace.  I have Ctrl-B for backspace if under the typical settings under Bash (though my team seem to prefer set -o vi... so I always have to set -o emacs again).  That or if I've really botched a line, Ctrl-U will clear the line completely regardless of shell - also works at the login prompt for mis-typed passwords. 

Like I said, I've used the layout since 1994 when I was first dealing with Sun systems and still have a Sun 5 keyboard with the layout in the closet for the old Ultra 60 that never gets fired up any longer.  I'd use it if I had to for whatever reason but even Sun ended up switching out for ANSI later on.

The pipe deserves its own key; however, it should be a one unit key, I do not see why it should be any larger.

I would be fine with the pipe as a one-unit key.  It's a 1.5u key more due to the ANSI layout than anything.  US ISO would certainly be interesting.  It's possible but with me being in the US, ANSI is readily available and easier on the wallet for keycap sets.

Show Image

*shudder*

[ideus]

ANSI backspace for me, mostly due to layout.  I used the UNIX style backspace that the HHKB uses for years in the 90s and was never a huge fan of it.  I could use it but I'd rather the \| be more accessible to me than the backspace.  As a UNIX admin, I use the \| key rather heavily for a living.

It is very interesting to learn that even after years of use you prefer the ANSI to the UNIX back space, I can use both and I have one keyboard with each one, but gravitate mostly to the first one. Even when it is a bit farther from the home row, its size and the placement at the corner makes it easier to type on, also, along with a fat enter you can enjoy the pleasure of a secure, strong and firm hit on both of them.

Honestly, on the command-line, I'm more in need of the | symbol than I am of the backspace.  I have Ctrl-B for backspace if under the typical settings under Bash (though my team seem to prefer set -o vi... so I always have to set -o emacs again).  That or if I've really botched a line, Ctrl-U will clear the line completely regardless of shell - also works at the login prompt for mis-typed passwords. 

Like I said, I've used the layout since 1994 when I was first dealing with Sun systems and still have a Sun 5 keyboard with the layout in the closet for the old Ultra 60 that never gets fired up any longer.  I'd use it if I had to for whatever reason but even Sun ended up switching out for ANSI later on.

The pipe deserves its own key; however, it should be a one unit key, I do not see why it should be any larger.

I would be fine with the pipe as a one-unit key.  It's a 1.5u key more due to the ANSI layout than anything.  US ISO would certainly be interesting.  It's possible but with me being in the US, ANSI is readily available and easier on the wallet for keycap sets.

Show Image

*shudder*

 :)) :)) 8)

[Niomosy]

That wouldn't be a bad layout in all honesty.  I would imagine it would take some slight adjustments going from a bit more stretch to stacking the pinky/ring fingers on the right hand.

The ample area to type on the Enter key makes adjusting to it a breeze. I like the 1.5 Unix style backspace; but, this is pretty intuitive.

Enter key surface area hasn't ever really been a problem for me.  The backspace size isn't a huge problem either, honestly.  I've used the bigass enter key keyboards in the past that had 1u backspaces.  Not that I'd want to go back to one of those, though.

[Phenix]

Is there any pcb for an good split spacebar board?
(beside clueboard / Phantom)

[ideus]

Is there any pcb for an good split spacebar board?
(beside clueboard / Phantom)

There is a new PCB in its interest-check phase, you may want to check it.

[YoshiCaps]

Huge backspace, huge enter. I HATE  the pan-nordic layout with that tiny backspace key- [img][/http://i.imgur.com/sgfuu.jpg]

[RyanArr]

Left half of the spacebar. Why would it be way up in the corner? Can't go where capslock is, that's where Control goes.

[YoshiCaps]

I prefer a UK style layout with a big tall skinny enter and a normal bs.