Innnnnnnnnnnteresting! Does it have love for ISO?
Very, very intested. Will there be any 1.5/1/1.5 love? ;D
It all depends on what keycaps we can source for Alps.So you will be supplying full boards w/ keycaps? This won't be like the GH60 where you buy the pcb then pick and choose the rest?
It all depends on what keycaps we can source for Alps.So you will be supplying full boards w/ keycaps? This won't be like the GH60 where you buy the pcb then pick and choose the rest?
+1
And the PCB?
I would love to change Komar007's PCB in order get more one keyboard at our Open Source arsenal ...
Anyone is already working on this idea?
Can I help?
:)
It all depends on what keycaps we can source for Alps.So you will be supplying full boards w/ keycaps? This won't be like the GH60 where you buy the pcb then pick and choose the rest?
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If it can use the phantom speced plate that would be epic
+1
And the PCB?
I would love to change Komar007's PCB in order get more one keyboard at our Open Source arsenal ...
Anyone is already working on this idea?
Can I help?
:)
From the discussions in IRC, it's looking like we'll be providing the case, PCB, and plate. Caps might have to be sourced from like an AT101W, AT101, or Fk-2001. But we've also discussed talking to SP and Matias for cap-sets.I see. I wouldn't be interested in a case & plate. Only the pcb, as I would most likely want to put it in the TEK-80. This is also why I asked about the 1.5 mods.
Also I will be heading up the case design team. TheFlyingRaccoon has a Rev 1 case design out but we've also talked about modifying the Open Source GH60 case to fit our needs. We're thinking an acrylic sandwich or layered case right now. Let me know what you think about the case and/or if you want to help.
I would love to have your help if you are willing. If you can easily take the PCB you designed for the GH60-Alps project and modify it to an 87/88-key layout (or 86/84), that would be a great help and we would almost be done! :DYup, that's what I thought.
I see. I wouldn't be interested in a case & plate. Only the pcb, as I would most likely want to put it in the TEK-80. This is also why I asked about the 1.5 mods.
If you need any help with anything just let me know. I'll be happy to do anything I can. I think having a layered case is a good starting point and the OS GH60 case could be very easily adapted. I'd just need JD to sort out the switch holes.
Thanks for your offer to help! I'm sure we'll be talking. I'm not sure of any Alps boards with 1.5x/1x/1.5x layouts. I asked JD before but we could think of any between the two of us. So far we've discussed the layouts on the boards I mentioned before. So it'd be 87key and 84key with the small ANSI enter and 84key with the big ANSI (L-shaped) enter.I don't know why I keep saying 1.5/1/1.5. I meant 84 key like this. (http://www.clickykeyboard.com/2006/sgi_keyboard/sgi_keyboard-001.jpg)
Awesome! This is really getting somewhere, there is an actual thread :p Anways here is the Rev1 case design. It's a basic layer case. http://db.tt/eBTkIb4J (http://db.tt/eBTkIb4J) Let me know what you think.Lookin' good nate!
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If it can use the phantom speced plate that would be epic
Not sure what you mean by "phantom speced plate." This is Alps, bro. :)
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If it can use the phantom speced plate that would be epic
Not sure what you mean by "phantom speced plate." This is Alps, bro. :)
Presumably he means the outer footprint of the Phantom plate so that the Alps plate/PCB can be compatible with all the Phantom cases. Of course... then comes the question of, which Phantom plate? There's no outer footprint on the really original.
So I guess I have no idea what boost is talking about.
So my original question (back when I wanted to design an Alps board) which never was answered by anyone is... What sort of stabilizers do Alps boards use? My Ducky uses costar style w/ Cherry stems which I find to be quite odd. Matias had mentioned to me the possibility of making his stab design available for purchase by DIY'ers but he's never provided specs.
*sigh* so what is a standard Alps stabilizer?
So my original question (back when I wanted to design an Alps board) which never was answered by anyone is... What sort of stabilizers do Alps boards use? My Ducky uses costar style w/ Cherry stems which I find to be quite odd. Matias had mentioned to me the possibility of making his stab design available for purchase by DIY'ers but he's never provided specs.
*sigh* so what is a standard Alps stabilizer?
I wish I knew. We spec'ed this with Costar stab holes. I'm trying to find out more info about DS ABS Alps keycaps from SP. And I will ask what type of stabilizer stems or whatever they use. If they had MX-style stems on the mods, that would be ideal.
I don't think using Cherry stabs is an option, simply because the actual switch is wider, and Cherry stabs would interfere with the operation of the switch.
JDCarpe, please, could you note me regarding the sizes below? (metric, mm)Show Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/94589680/20130610-JDCarpe-TKL-dimensions.jpg)
We will need more 4 pins to get this PCB to work so I'm going to use the GHPad reserved pins ok?
There is no alternative "configuration" for the function row? I mean, the layout is fixed?
Same question for the Ins/Home/Page/Arrow keys.
I used standard Cherry measurements then resized the holes to fit alps switches. I'm not sure what JadeCarp did but here are my measurements. (All in mm)Awesome! I'll use it as soon as I get at home.
1) 3.124
2) 22.6
3) 15.14
4) 1.775
5) 13.08
6) 13.08
7) 6.25
8) 345.6
9) 123.19
Awesome! This is really getting somewhere, there is an actual thread :p Anways here is the Rev1 case design. It's a basic layer case. http://db.tt/eBTkIb4J (http://db.tt/eBTkIb4J) Let me know what you think.
Awesome! This is really getting somewhere, there is an actual thread :p Anways here is the Rev1 case design. It's a basic layer case. http://db.tt/eBTkIb4J (http://db.tt/eBTkIb4J) Let me know what you think.
Acrylic plate?
JDCarpe, please, could you note me regarding the sizes below? (metric, mm)Show Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/94589680/20130610-JDCarpe-TKL-dimensions.jpg)
We will need more 4 pins to get this PCB to work so I'm going to use the GHPad reserved pins ok?
There is no alternative "configuration" for the function row? I mean, the layout is fixed?
Same question for the Ins/Home/Page/Arrow keys.
I think JD said stainless steel or aluminum for the plates.
Yet another nice inhouse custom project =)
Getting PCB and plates made shouldn't be that hard, but the problem I see is sourcing stabilizers and keycaps on a large scale. Buying large amounts of ALPS boards to harvest stabilizers and caps is less than ideal. I don't think you can just buy the costar stabs from WASDkeyboards either, because those depend on inserts that only work with cherry stems.
And I think the only loose ALPS switches you can buy are the Matias switches. Btw I have a bag, and these things are boss. They feel similar to 62g ergo clears.
JD and WFD, Matt30 is working on a custom Alps board as well. Maybe we can ask him what he would do if he didn't buy my Focus FK-2001 caps/stabs.
And yes, Costar style stabs will sork, but the wires will be different based on the Alps switch profile.
And yes, Costar style stabs will sork, but the wires will be different based on the Alps switch profile.
They "work"? So even if you change the wire, the cherry-style cross shape still inserts into the ALPS stems ok?
Don't want to be negative about this but this GB should be don't in more than 1 stage, while sounds exciting having custom alps keyboard there are 2 things that will held people from jumping on this.
Its great you guys have case,pcb,plate figured out, maeby as someone mentioned here there can be acrylic option so it wont break the bank with alu casing, but then this GB needs to follow with 2 more GB one after another:
1. GB for alps if possible the new alps from Matias, I know you'll say well just buy an used board and salvage them.... Salvage what? switches that somebody has been ponding on them with years....
2. GB for keycaps trough SP, even if you build the board with new switches ur stuck with the keycaps, stuck to pick up whatever is available out there from salvaged boards.... If you ask me I would have ZERO problem jumping on this GB because I have NIB Dell AT101, not sure how caps lock and space bar will fit, but lets just say I'm 95% ready... I would still prefer more in depth GB for this project.
Any ways props for the peeps that started this thread.
JD and WFD, Matt30 is working on a custom Alps board as well. Maybe we can ask him what he would do if he didn't buy my Focus FK-2001 caps/stabs.This one is not that PCB (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42302.msg876914#msg876914) that Matt3o asked me to build for him?
I think it would be better for the GB if it has 30 peeps with the alu casing and another 30 with acrylic instead of 30 only with aluminum case because others were discouraged to jump in because of the price.Yup, I do agree. ALU is way expensive and is not for everybody.
I think flying raccoon has the acrylic layered case under control and the CNC cases I've designed don't need much work. There are options for everyone.I think it would be better for the GB if it has 30 peeps with the alu casing and another 30 with acrylic instead of 30 only with aluminum case because others were discouraged to jump in because of the price.Yup, I do agree. ALU is way expensive and is not for everybody.
I think flying raccoon has the acrylic layered case under control and the CNC cases I've designed don't need much work. There are options for everyone.Awesome!
That case would work with this PCB if I were to make an alps plate. However, I was talking about the cases I designed for jd for this project. Check the thread OP :) The first CNC design will be cheap, while the second is nicer and will cost more.I think flying raccoon has the acrylic layered case under control and the CNC cases I've designed don't need much work. There are options for everyone.Awesome!
This CNC case that you are talking about is your marvelous TKL project (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41202.0) Photekq?
That case would work with this PCB if I were to make an alps plate. However, I was talking about the cases I designed for jd for this project. Check the thread OP :) The first CNC design will be cheap, while the second is nicer and will cost more.Ohh, sorry. Silly me.
How easy is it to completely replace the MX pads with the ALPS pads? No reason to do more work if we don't need to.JD and WFD, Matt30 is working on a custom Alps board as well. Maybe we can ask him what he would do if he didn't buy my Focus FK-2001 caps/stabs.This one is not that PCB (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42302.msg876914#msg876914) that Matt3o asked me to build for him?
And at the end he ended up using direct wire instead of the PCB.
I just wanted to say that I have had only an acrylic case in mind for this project. I feel like its more affordable and we've seen an influx of metal cases lately. It'd be nice to do something different. If people want options, then we can proceed further but I think if the TEK80 happens, then that can be the alternate metal case. That is of course if photekq agrees to what I said.I would be perfectly happy to adapt the TEK-80 to support this. In fact it's something I plan to do for myself anyway. All it would require is a different plate. However, I think that at least one other aluminium case should be offered. I say this because the TEK-80 is complex due to the teensy on the phantom as well as the usb mount and so it is by no means cheap. It will be very costly. The two designs I roughly made for jd earlier that can be found in the OP are much, much simpler and will be far more affordable.
I also want to say that I'd prefer NOT to have an acrylic plate. Jd and I spoke about this and he said he cracked his Epsilon's acrylic plate. I'd rather not see a GB run and then have that organizer have to deal with people complaining their plate cracked. I'd much prefer seeing a stainless/aluminum plate in an acrylic case.
I also want to say that I'd prefer NOT to have an acrylic plate. Jd and I spoke about this and he said he cracked his Epsilon's acrylic plate. I'd rather not see a GB run and then have that organizer have to deal with people complaining their plate cracked. I'd much prefer seeing a stainless/aluminum plate in an acrylic case.Understood, it makes sense for the GB, less risky.
I also want to say that I'd prefer NOT to have an acrylic plate. Jd and I spoke about this and he said he cracked his Epsilon's acrylic plate. I'd rather not see a GB run and then have that organizer have to deal with people complaining their plate cracked. I'd much prefer seeing a stainless/aluminum plate in an acrylic case.Understood, it makes sense for the GB, less risky.
Just wondering here - could we release one alternative version of the plate for the guys out of the GB?
I'm not sure I understand. What alternative did you want to see? A full acrylic case, similar to what alixinhzai has offered for the GH60? Or an alternative switch layout?You both suggested an acrylic case with one metal plate (or anything else, but not acrylic). I think it's okay.
The layered acrylic case (3-layered, based on Photekq's open source GH60 case design), will definitely be an option. It will look similar to the first case pictured in the OP. I am just not a fan, personally, of all acrylic cases unless there is some kind of thick spacer plate beneath the switches.
I understand but the design of an acrylic plate would be identical to the design of an aluminium plate. Nothing needs to be changed.I'm not sure I understand. What alternative did you want to see? A full acrylic case, similar to what alixinhzai has offered for the GH60? Or an alternative switch layout?You both suggested an acrylic case with one metal plate (or anything else, but not acrylic). I think it's okay.
The layered acrylic case (3-layered, based on Photekq's open source GH60 case design), will definitely be an option. It will look similar to the first case pictured in the OP. I am just not a fan, personally, of all acrylic cases unless there is some kind of thick spacer plate beneath the switches.
I'm suggesting to design both, the metal plate and the acrylic plate. We could then let the acrylic plate out of the GB although still available for whomever wants to send it to a local laser shop.
I think it's important to have one complete project, one complete acrylic case - only one material requires only one provider and it's easy to build. IMHO.
It make sense?
I understand but the design of an acrylic plate would be identical to the design of an aluminium plate. Nothing needs to be changed.
Badly
Interesting.., although likely to blow well past my budget.
The alps switch, costar stabilizer style is also used on the Solidtek/DSI ASK-6600U, but its keycaps are sucky-- big-L enter, poor finish quality.
I think the trick on this sort of project would be to sell only one or two variants-- even if it means, say, ANSI and ISO overlapping keys-- to maximize economies of scale for everyone.
You both suggested an acrylic case with one metal plate (or anything else, but not acrylic). I think it's okay.
I'm suggesting to design both, the metal plate and the acrylic plate. We could then let the acrylic plate out of the GB although still available for whomever wants to send it to a local laser shop.
I think it's important to have one complete project, one complete acrylic case - only one material requires only one provider and it's easy to build. IMHO.
It make sense?
Aluminium case will more than double (more like triple) the overall cost. Just sayin'The two CNC designs will be affordable as they are incredibly simple. Especially the simple tray/plate one. I still think having very cheap acrylic cases is a good idea.
What I meant is that the dxf would stay the same and only the thickness would change.I understand but the design of an acrylic plate would be identical to the design of an aluminium plate. Nothing needs to be changed.
Not exactly, the typical acrylic plate in an MX board would be the full thickness from the top surface of the PCB to the bottom edge of the switch mounting flanges that rest on top of the plate. This makes a 5.0mm thick plate for Cherry or a 4.9mm thick plate for Alps. This works well with PCB mount Cherry, no idea how it would work with Alps since the plate attachment mechanism would be defeated. This also supplies the needed strength in acrylic where the typical thinner plate for Alps is quite flimsy.
Any way this will fit Monterey Blues as well?
Yeah, no one is saying that an acrylic case with an aluminum.or polycarb plate isn't an option. It definitely will be. However, we designed the "simple" aluminum case to be very affordable. It is basically an aluminum tray with a plate on top. With no standoffs to be milled and such, I believe we could get pricing down to the same range as the popular Poker alu tray cases, plus a plate.
I don't think this makes much sense since acrylic plates might be prone to cracking plus there might be issues with the stabilizers. Doesn't make sense to design and publish something that has inherent flaws. We should find another material like the polycarb that TheFlyingRaccoon suggested. Plus, how much is an acrylic plate really going to save? It's only about $20 for a metal plate...I really don't think it will save only 20 bucks, sorry, I could be wrong - let's see.
... I could still provide plates if needed
I really don't think it will save only 20 bucks, sorry, I could be wrong - let's see.
I wouldn't say that an acrylic case is an perfect solution but it is one solution.
There are a few successful projects out there using acrylic cases (ErgoDox for instance, I did saw a few with ALU plates).
I think that Phoetkq mentioned that the acrylic could be replaced by another material, it includes the poli dunno what you mentioned BadAss?
You will have my support for anything that you guys think is the best approach.
:)
My personal mote is: perfect is the enemy of good! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_is_the_enemy_of_good)
I think we keep missing each other's points agodinhost but it's all right. As JD and photekq have said, we'll try and present multiple options that will hopefully suit everyone's tastes ^-^.Troublemaker!!!
I'll have to talk to JD some more but I've been AFK which is why there has been some conflicting info coming out of me. If anyone is ever confused by what I say, please refer to JD's info since he'll know way more than me. My experience with all this is way more limited than his.
I'm sure we can come up with something which will be both affordable and attractive. :)I know it for sure, we do have an awesome team here!!!
On another note, I had this crazy idea that maybe the PCB could have the ability for both Alps and MX switches at the same time? Meaning at each switch location there could be holes and solder pads with traces, so that you could install either Alps or MX switches interchangably? Is that even possible? I think I saw something like that from metalliqaz, but I could be wrong.Yes, it would be possible in another PCB, the GH60 already have way too many holes to support those several layouts - adding the Alps holes would conflict/bump/overlap with what we already have on the official PCB.
Well just remember, I joined 2 months before you did so if you're a newbie, so am I! :PTwo months more than me and you do already have 2751 posts???
Anyways, thanks for your info on the Alps and MX board. I never thought about that but it's cool to know that someone has figured it out. Too bad though....that'd be a cool board.I'm not saying it's impossible - we could have it done on a PCB with one unique layout however I think that the most cool feature in the GH60 PCB is the support for multiple layouts.
Please, I'm looking for the link to get Komar's Rev B files (I'm at work)
Anyone? I wanna test this idea ...
When it's done, there should be a link. Here is the latest, but this will be changed.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59077581/gerber-2013-05-05.zip (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59077581/gerber-2013-05-05.zip)
is this ok for you?Yes, if the account weren't be blocked.
WFD posted the files.
is this ok for you?Yes, if the account weren't be blocked.
WFD posted the files.
"This account's public links are generating too much traffic and have been temporarily disabled! "
Thanks Sai Sam!
oh. no problem. i'll upload it for you again. i downloaded it yesterday. :DOhh man, thanks very much! ありがとう
I tried the idea into the rev a project and I've changed my mind.Do you think we'd be able to support 1.25 & 1.5 ansi & iso with alps and cherry? Personally I think it's important to have layouts rather than two switches. We already have the Phantom for mx!
I think it's okay - kinda weird but I think it's doableShow Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/94589680/20131011-CherryAlpsSwitch.PNG)
Do you think we'd be able to support 1.25 & 1.5 ansi & iso with alps and cherry? Personally I think it's important to have layouts rather than two switches. We already have the Phantom for mx!The GH60 board already have this 1.25 and 1.5 support?
I tried the idea into the rev a project and I've changed my mind.Do you think we'd be able to support 1.25 & 1.5 ansi & iso with alps and cherry? Personally I think it's important to have layouts rather than two switches. We already have the Phantom for mx!
I think it's okay - kinda weird but I think it's doableShow Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/94589680/20131011-CherryAlpsSwitch.PNG)
Yes. The Teensy is a huge, HUGE design flaw. I cannot explain how much of a pain in the ass it makes designing a case.I tried the idea into the rev a project and I've changed my mind.Do you think we'd be able to support 1.25 & 1.5 ansi & iso with alps and cherry? Personally I think it's important to have layouts rather than two switches. We already have the Phantom for mx!
I think it's okay - kinda weird but I think it's doableShow Image(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/94589680/20131011-CherryAlpsSwitch.PNG)
Those layouts are all that matter to me. ANSI and ISO, 1.25 and 1.50 bottom row, plus option of split backspace and short right shift.
The only, ONLY, criticisms I have of the Phantom are that it uses through-hole components (Teensy and diodes), and there are no holes for PCB-mount switches. Holes and solder pads for LEDs (but no traces) in every switch location would be nice, but aren't strictly necessary.
Yes. The Teensy is a huge, HUGE design flaw. I cannot explain how much of a pain in the ass it makes designing a case.
+1Yes. The Teensy is a huge, HUGE design flaw. I cannot explain how much of a pain in the ass it makes designing a case.If we can do onboard components, placed at the fab like with the GH60, that's the way to go from now on. :D
+1+1Yes. The Teensy is a huge, HUGE design flaw. I cannot explain how much of a pain in the ass it makes designing a case.If we can do onboard components, placed at the fab like with the GH60, that's the way to go from now on. :D
Yeah, looks like the only way to do it would be to standardize on one layout only. ANSI 125, maybe. The dream remains elusive. :)Yes, I figured it out too.
Yeah make this Alps exclusive, there's already an alps/mx hybrid in the works in a different layout. ;)
This will be Alps-only. To preserve more layouts. :DYea! Now let's get the PCB done so I can order a proto case. :llama:
Okay there is something I feel we should do. We need to make a standard plate design for this. We don't want to be cutting different plates for each case so I think we should standardise the shape/number of screw holes.
This is the plate at the moment :Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/s0j6Gsu.png)
This is how I think it should look. I think currently there is an excess of screw holes which will only add to costs :Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/EHJN1nr.png)
Another thing we should do is fill any gaps in the case arsenal. Currently we have
-Simple layered case by Raccoon. Should probably be made from acrylic.
-Simple CNC case by me. Could be made from aluminium, polycarb etc.
-Three-piece CNC case by me. Could be made from aluminium, polycard etc.
Are we missing anything? A more complex acrylic/layered case?
Awesome! Can you provide a .dxf file for the plate? Also you mentioned a more complex layered case. Well my plan is to offer one with a ridge/frame and one with exposed switches. This is just the addition or subtraction of one part so it will provide customization with no extra costs. There really isn't any way to make the layer case more fancy though.I sure can. I'll post it here once I've gone over a few small things with the three piece CNC case. I just need to make sure the plate will work.
Yeah make this Alps exclusive, there's already an alps/mx hybrid in the works in a different layout. ;)If you mean that one that I did for Matt3o sorry but no one is using it.
No, I'm talking about a project from another forum. It's already in testing stage.ahhh, could you link it for me? please?
Yeah make this Alps exclusive, there's already an alps/mx hybrid in the works in a different layout. ;)
So.. the question remains.. are we missing any cases?
I think there's enough options mate :DYup, I do agree too.
Alps datasheet here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33298.msg626387).Thanks. Turns out it was just an error in the top.
Are the stems in the absolute center of the switch?"The switches are mounted at 0.75" which is 19.05mm, from center-to-center. That is 1U."
Are the stems on the keycaps in the absolute center of the keycap?
So, is it time to start ordering Matias switches from 7bit? That three-part case design looks beautiful!
So, is it time to start ordering Matias switches from 7bit? That three-part case design looks beautiful!
Matias has switches for sale right on their site as well ^__^
So, is it time to start ordering Matias switches from 7bit? That three-part case design looks beautiful!
Matias has switches for sale right on their site as well ^__^
Link? I couldn't find them... :(
Okay both CNC cases are finished for the moment. They are 'ready for use' (aside from the usb hole). If they were produced they would be functional but I know for a fact there are some features JD would like to add.
The simple CNC case is as pictured in the OP. It's just a tray with screw holes for the plate.
Here are some more pictures of the complex CNC case. Note that one set of screws holds all three pieces together :Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/7NbwjSH.png)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/6AnyXg3.png)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/1TbOjml.png)Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/qimvnNk.png)
As you can see it's very simple and should be cheap to produce. M3x16 screws should be used.
Yeah, if we could hopefully offer the simple "tray and plate" aluminum case for $150 or less, and the PCB for around $40, wouldn't that be great? I custom keyboard with aluminum case for less than $200. Plus like $25 for switches.I think $150 is a good estimate. I seriously doubt it would cost more than $100 for the tray since it's so, so simple. I would also be surprised if the complex case costs more than $200-250.
So, is it time to start ordering Matias switches from 7bit? That three-part case design looks beautiful!
Matias has switches for sale right on their site as well ^__^
Link? I couldn't find them... :(
http://matias.ca/order/index1.php#matiaskeyswitches
I've been doing some searching around for the cabling solution and I came across this USB breakout board, anyone think it will prove worthwhile? Seems like it would be a bit more solid as you could screw it into the case, so long as the SMD soldering is good it shouldn't be any worse than production boards. Thinking about the case design that you've done up as well Photekq, do you think it would be a good idea to put a couple of screw threads on the back of the case so we can screw some feet in?I don't think there's a need for the breakout board. There will be a usb header on the PCB which should be solid enough. It'll make things more simple because all we'll need is a single hole in the case instead of a mount for the breakout board. If I were to add a mount for the breakout board it would really ruin the case. I'd have to make it deeper otherwise the pcb would touch the breakout board etc.
http://www.mindkits.com.au/store/prototyping/breakout-board-for-usb-mini-b
Wound up having to completely rethink my layout today when I realised the function keys from my Apple keyboard are much higher than usual, decided to go for a FC660 clone instead! Want to knock up a plate design in draftsight but I've only got a template for cherry mx switch sizes, anyone got something figured out for the alps switches?
Fair call on the breakout board! I probably should have explained the FC660 layout better, I plan on building this from hand making everything myself for some practice and then will build a full TKL layout when the PCB's, switches and cases etc are ready. Realistically just doing it to use up the caps and switches I've salvaged from other boards :)Oh I see. Send me a PM if you want the plate file.
I'm foaming at the mouth for this project.
I'm foaming at the mouth for this project.
Camels also do it when they want sex - I saw it on discovery channel a few days ago ...I'm foaming at the mouth for this project.
In the olden days, rabid animals were seen to be "foaming at the mouth" since they were panting heavily and the spittle was agitated.
Clearly, AKIMbO is rabid and panting for one of these boards.
Sorry I'm a total noob when it comes to custom keyboards and design considerations, but has anyone ever tried to source standard cases from a manufacturer before?
Sorry I'm a total noob when it comes to custom keyboards and design considerations, but has anyone ever tried to source standard cases from a manufacturer before?
I attempted to do this via Costar and they wanted nothing to do with it. I'm impressed CM swung the case tops, but it helps to have a high volume relationship already.
Yeah, that's why I'm thinking it would make sense to approach CM directly. The markup would be higher since they are an intermediary with Costar, but even with markup it should be significantly less than the other options. I guess I'm just thinking I'd rather sink my money into the plate and switches, which would make the most difference in overall feel. Easy for me to say though when I'm not doing any work. Heh.There's another problem. Take a look at our current plate design in the OP. This couldn't work with CM cases. A plate that is designed for use with CM cases wouldn't be able to be used with our current case designs either so in order to offer CM cases & custom cases we'd need to do two plate designs. This further complicates the group buy especially if we're offering different plate layouts. The plates also may be more expensive as a result since we'd be getting less of a single design made.
Ah, okay, that makes sense. I think an evolving rough estimate of the individual component costs in the OP would be helpful for anyone on the fence. I'd probably still go for it if the full set of components with a complete or "topless" case option comes in under $200. But when people start throwing around estimates of $200 just for the case, wowzers, I don't need all that bling myself. I don't even look at my keyboard while I'm using it. :))Well I think TheFlyingRaccoon has made a layered case that's designed to be made from acrylic. This would be super cheap and definitely sub-$100 unlike the aluminium cases I've designed that you can see in the OP.
In the future, if you guys ever decide to do a "standardized" plate and PCB that would fit into a Costar TKL case (assuming they are sourceable, of course) I'd be all over that.
Ah, okay, that makes sense. I think an evolving rough estimate of the individual component costs in the OP would be helpful for anyone on the fence. I'd probably still go for it if the full set of components with a complete or "topless" case option comes in under $200. But when people start throwing around estimates of $200 just for the case, wowzers, I don't need all that bling myself. I don't even look at my keyboard while I'm using it. :))Well I think TheFlyingRaccoon has made a layered case that's designed to be made from acrylic. This would be super cheap and definitely sub-$100 unlike the aluminium cases I've designed that you can see in the OP.
In the future, if you guys ever decide to do a "standardized" plate and PCB that would fit into a Costar TKL case (assuming they are sourceable, of course) I'd be all over that.
Is that including the plate? If so, were you quoted for an aluminium or an acrylic plate?
Yup. For my acrylic case design I was quoted $80 by AcidFire. Not sure if it can be done cheaper somewhere else though.
Yup. For my acrylic case design I was quoted $80 by AcidFire. Not sure if it can be done cheaper somewhere else though.
Is that including the plate? If so, were you quoted for an aluminium or an acrylic plate?
Yup. For my acrylic case design I was quoted $80 by AcidFire. Not sure if it can be done cheaper somewhere else though.
Regardless of the above it seems like a good price considering the fact that it's a one-off.
Yup. For my acrylic case design I was quoted $80 by AcidFire. Not sure if it can be done cheaper somewhere else though.
But that's not including shipping from wherever AcidFire is. Which is not the US I don't believe. We should really not make guestimates on pricing when there's so many details floating out there. People see prices and start expecting things.
We're *trying* to make the board as affordable as possible. But I personally would hesitate to commit to any sort of price window at the moment.
Interested in helping with electronics and firmware.You're a saviour, man.
Not that much in buying one, but who knows what happens if I get to like the alps I ordered from 7bit...
The GH60 firmware with runtime reprogramming capability is ready to work on any keyboard with a USB-enabled AVR chip.
Interested in helping with electronics and firmware.Hi Komar.
Not that much in buying one, but who knows what happens if I get to like the alps I ordered from 7bit...
The GH60 firmware with runtime reprogramming capability is ready to work on any keyboard with a USB-enabled AVR chip.
https://github.com/komar007/ghkb/issues?milestone=1&state=openOnly 7!
When this says "0 open", it's ready:)
https://github.com/komar007/ghkb/issues?milestone=1&state=open (https://github.com/komar007/ghkb/issues?milestone=1&state=open)
When this says "0 open", it's ready:)
Though I'm not sure you want to use the rev B as base for the ALPS version, because it has LEDs all over the place. ALPS don't have holes for LEDs, do they?
Anyway, if you just omit that LED part it should be enough to use pcbnew's change module function and automatically replace all the switch modules with ALPS, fix the traces and you should be good to go;)
Whats the exact distance between each switch center from center? 19mm or 19.05mm?
If I could remember for the life of me the switches that were in that Leading Edge I revived last year, I'd LOVE to build a board with those.
If I could remember for the life of me the switches that were in that Leading Edge I revived last year, I'd LOVE to build a board with those.
Like this?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/NCRJAzc.jpg)
Complicated Blue Alps
I used to like PBR before it was cool.
1) PCB, mine - I will redo the PCB as soon as we get an new official version from Komar007
2) Plate?
3) Stabs (related with 2)?
4) Anything else?
If I could remember for the life of me the switches that were in that Leading Edge I revived last year, I'd LOVE to build a board with those.
Like this?Show Image(http://i.imgur.com/NCRJAzc.jpg)
Complicated Blue Alps
Om nom nom nom! Blue ALPs!I used to like PBR before it was cool.
I liked ALPs before it was cool.
3) jdcarpe was trying to figure this out. If his plan doesn't work out, we'll have to consider trying to get Cherry or Costar stabilizers to work. I'm not sure how feasible that is, I think Costar would work better. But the last option is to harvest caps/stabs from a board like the Kingsaver does with the Wang 724.
No dante and frankly, that would just throw another wrinkle into this project which has been in a sluggish state for months. I think that's a good project for another time, but not this project.
Plus are there Alps boards that will accept center stem placement?
No dante and frankly, that would just throw another wrinkle into this project which has been in a sluggish state for months. I think that's a good project for another time, but not this project.
Plus are there Alps boards that will accept center stem placement?
I don't know. I was thinking of something for the future. ie: Someone runs a group buy for a nice looking set of keycaps from SP. They could also run an option for the same set with Alps.
What exactly are you pointing out? The fact that Matias is making keycaps?
Edit: Tapatalk linked me to the wrong post and I got confused. So Edgar is saying MX + Matias Alps stem isnt possible? Interesting.
JD and I talked about this a few times. I think we're going to say it's on hiatus until we get keycaps. If Matias or calavera end up creating keycaps, I'll try and reinvigorate this project. The whole problem is having no keycaps so even if we design a PCB/case, there's no caps for the keyboard. JD has spoken to a few suppliers and has gotten little response.
In the mean time, Matias is due to release a 60% Alps GB soon; hopefully with keycaps as well.
JD and I talked about this a few times. I think we're going to say it's on hiatus until we get keycaps. If Matias or calavera end up creating keycaps, I'll try and reinvigorate this project. The whole problem is having no keycaps so even if we design a PCB/case, there's no caps for the keyboard. JD has spoken to a few suppliers and has gotten little response.
In the mean time, Matias is due to release a 60% Alps GB soon; hopefully with keycaps as well.
Hold up....back the eff up.... what?!
JD and I talked about this a few times. I think we're going to say it's on hiatus until we get keycaps. If Matias or calavera end up creating keycaps, I'll try and reinvigorate this project. The whole problem is having no keycaps so even if we design a PCB/case, there's no caps for the keyboard. JD has spoken to a few suppliers and has gotten little response.
In the mean time, Matias is due to release a 60% Alps GB soon; hopefully with keycaps as well.
Hold up....back the eff up.... what?!
Akimbro, get hyped
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52217.0
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50523.msg1120724#msg1120724
I want to make an Alps Ergodox!
so the only problem here is keycaps right?Why don't we go with already existing caps from dell,sgi and omnikey that way we just need to design pcb+plate and make so that it can fit qfr/filco case.
Why don't we go with already existing caps from dell,sgi and omnikey that way we just need to design pcb+plate and make so that it can fit qfr/filco case.I'm already working on a pcb for me that can support caps from those 3 boards i wanted to include AEK but i cant get around those 1.25 bottom row keys since they are interfering and making shorts
as for plates i only need ppl with omni,sgi and dell at101,101w to mesure stabs placement on their boards if possible.
Thanks, if sp can do all the keys with combo stems eg 7x spacebar for winkeyless i'm willing to help with plate/pcb
Ok so i tested out caps lock placement and we have it like this, if we go with sp keycaps we can only use stepped caps lock or normal one but if we go with taihao keycaps we can use both and thats if im not wrong about taihao stepped caps lock stem placement i need someone to check that it should be same as tab keycap.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47831.60
tai hao stepped caps lock, anyway ill go about designing pcb and we will see about keycaps and plates.
I honestly think we will not get anywhere by PCB/KBD designers waiting for Alps keycaps in the market, and possible Alps GBs waiting for keyboards to put them on.
Someone/people have to step up and take initiative.
I honestly think we will not get anywhere by PCB/KBD designers waiting for Alps keycaps in the market, and possible Alps GBs waiting for keyboards to put them on.
Someone/people have to step up and take initiative.
And you're going to use what caps then? Taking initiative doesn't solve the cap issue. Going to type on the stems? Or harvest from old boards?
I honestly think we will not get anywhere by PCB/KBD designers waiting for Alps keycaps in the market, and possible Alps GBs waiting for keyboards to put them on.
Someone/people have to step up and take initiative.
And you're going to use what caps then? Taking initiative doesn't solve the cap issue. Going to type on the stems? Or harvest from old boards?
I honestly think we will not get anywhere by PCB/KBD designers waiting for Alps keycaps in the market, and possible Alps GBs waiting for keyboards to put them on.
Someone/people have to step up and take initiative.
And you're going to use what caps then? Taking initiative doesn't solve the cap issue. Going to type on the stems? Or harvest from old boards?
Perhaps someone should ask Matias on the AMA today about his progress on offering key caps.
That is the exact problem, when someone says let's have an Alps keycap GB, the question is what are you going to use it on, there aren't enough boards. Adding Alps support on a PCB is not that hard, it will slightly increase cost of PCB due to slot hole, that's all. Having a number of of boards that do support Alps switches would mean more interest for Alps keycap GB, both of them go hand-in-hand. Having a PCB design available does not mean that we have to produce it right off and start using it, it allows us an option and gives an opportunity to produce new Alps keycaps. Besides, the point of MX+Alps board is to have the option available.
I think you're missing my point but it's fine. I agree with what you're saying.
But, I would like to know what you have in mind.
what i understand in calver gb for sp cpas sp can't make caps with alps stabs but they can with cherry stab
as for taihao someone needs to contact them
then there is also matias.
Ok a little update, after sitting down and checking every switch placement i'm happy to say that mx/alps pcb is doable with wk/wkl layout, now i just need to redo the whole pcb.....
That was quick skrsh3r :Dyup
Well i don't its needed but i can do that, i just have alot of for in next 1-2 weeks so when i'm done with that i can finish this.Could you provide the Kicad files?
here you go.thank you man!
http://www.mediafire.com/download/wvt62f5cza4c9qg/ALPSTKL.7z
It's close to be finished only holes are needed as you said, btw i rotated caps lock switches to see how does that look and it comes out better then in those files i uploaded, just rotate cherries back to normal position and alps by 180 degrees after that all its left to route teensy and add ground planes and its basically done.here you go.thank you man!
http://www.mediafire.com/download/wvt62f5cza4c9qg/ALPSTKL.7z
just rotate cherries back to normal position and alps by 180 degreesDo note that some Alps switches feel slightly different when rotated 180 degrees. It’s a pretty minor difference though, so it probably doesn’t matter too much.
I can't say that I would be down for this, but I will watch this project.
My only concern is that the plate seems to only support one layout; is there any possibility of supporting other layouts?
ANSI125 isn't exactly optimal for ALPS lovers since vintage sets cannot be used.
I can't say that I would be down for this, but I will watch this project.
My only concern is that the plate seems to only support one layout; is there any possibility of supporting other layouts?
ANSI125 isn't exactly optimal for ALPS lovers since vintage sets cannot be used.
I'm certainly open to adding layout possibilities to the PCB, and having several plates to choose from. I just need to know which additional layouts people want. Most people probably have AEKII, AT101, AT101W. The good thing is that now we have keycaps from Tai Hao and even a full set from SP (Alpine Winter), so standard ANSI 125 is actually possible.
I must reiterate that I will likely not purchase this keyboard unless something else really intrigues me.
So basically just a straight-up standard ANSI TKL in an aluminum case, with no gaudy lights or logo engravings? This seems like it's been missing from the custom scene for a long time...not just for Alps, but for MX as well. I think the choice for standard ANSI layout makes the most sense.
Would this case have an incline, or at least mounts for those TEX feet to raise up the back?
Is this still happening bro? Would love getting this instead of searching for kingsaver
Mate you helped me. 100% interestedIs this still happening bro? Would love getting this instead of searching for kingsaver
That's the goal...to help people who are searching for Kingsavers find their new keyboard. :)
Let see...Yes, I will have a winkeyless bottom row option for sure.
- Alps
- Tenkeyless
- Solid case
- No stupid light show
I'm in!!
My only wishlist item is a winkeyless case/plate option
So basically just a straight-up standard ANSI TKL in an aluminum case, with no gaudy lights or logo engravings? This seems like it's been missing from the custom scene for a long time...not just for Alps, but for MX as well. I think the choice for standard ANSI layout makes the most sense.
Would this case have an incline, or at least mounts for those TEX feet to raise up the back?
Yes, that's correct for the most part. It might have the CarpeKeyboards 'CK' logo engraved on it, but that would be about it. I hope to design the case with an incline, of about 7-8 degrees max, so that no feet will be required. I am still debating on whether to offer MX compatibility in the same PCB or not, and go strictly Alps.
I'm already imagining what this will look like with an Alpine Winter SA TKL set, or maybe 1976 Alps Remix...
I'm already imagining what this will look like with an Alpine Winter SA TKL set, or maybe 1976 Alps Remix...
We just have to convince Signature Plastics to give us SA with Alps mounts.
I'm hoping for Vortex PBT double shots in Alps mount, or really any PBT caps in Alps mount.
I'm hoping for Vortex PBT double shots in Alps mount, or really any PBT caps in Alps mount.
Works for me, or even the Tai Hao double shots in ABS. I'm just happy we have a few options for Alps keycaps now, other than scavenging from vintage keyboards.
I'm hoping for Vortex PBT double shots in Alps mount, or really any PBT caps in Alps mount.
Works for me, or even the Tai Hao double shots in ABS. I'm just happy we have a few options for Alps keycaps now, other than scavenging from vintage keyboards.
If PBT I would prefer dyesubs to doubleshot...those Vortex doubleshots are super uneven.
I recall seeing some prototypes for an alps to mx adapter, making it so that you could use standard mx keysets. Would it be even remotely possible for this to be an option? The majority of alps keycaps (and selection) is pretty lackluster, even though there are more and more options all the time. I'm assuming since this would be using a costar style stab, it wouldn't?
Interested to see how this progresses, although I doubt I could get wifely approval for it.Better start saving your pocket change now.
I recall seeing some prototypes for an alps to mx adapter, making it so that you could use standard mx keysets. Would it be even remotely possible for this to be an option? The majority of alps keycaps (and selection) is pretty lackluster, even though there are more and more options all the time. I'm assuming since this would be using a costar style stab, it wouldn't?
There are a few projects like that, but AFAIK none of them are ready for prime time yet. You also end up with some very tall keycaps because of the adapter's added height. Any such project will have to address the stabilizer issue as well.
At any rate, this TKL won't care what caps you use.
Hello Jdcarpe any news of the follow of the project ? And by any chance a TKL Alps Iso board ?At this time, all my efforts are focused on getting the JD45 to market, as well as making the JD40 available again. The JD45 group buy should start very soon, and JD40s should show up in several places, as well.
Hello Jdcarpe any news of the follow of the project ? And by any chance a TKL Alps Iso board ?At this time, all my efforts are focused on getting the JD45 to market, as well as making the JD40 available again. The JD45 group buy should start very soon, and JD40s should show up in several places, as well.
I do plan to continue this project, but it may not be a traditional TKL. I have in mind a more interesting design with a similar form factor, and I might just take the project in that direction. :)
Hello Jdcarpe any news of the follow of the project ? And by any chance a TKL Alps Iso board ?At this time, all my efforts are focused on getting the JD45 to market, as well as making the JD40 available again. The JD45 group buy should start very soon, and JD40s should show up in several places, as well.
I do plan to continue this project, but it may not be a traditional TKL. I have in mind a more interesting design with a similar form factor, and I might just take the project in that direction. :)