Could also take a look into exercise ball style chairs. Can't slouch in those.I like the idea, but I somehow think sitting on a ball is a ticking hazard just waiting. Especially around expensive fragile equipment.
I don't remember the brand, but they were expensive. -- I tried it for a few days and it was VERY uncomfortable for me. I was significantly heavier than my boss and coworker and I think weight was the main factor in it being uncomfortable for me.Just based on price I would say it was either a Varier or Jobri as they sell around 800-1300$. Varier being the one with a rocking bottom and Jobri the one with a 5-star wheel bottom.
One other point to consider based upon my personal observations and experience fwiw... ergonomic things (chairs, desks, keyboards, etc) can only slightly encourage you to have proper form (whatever that means). If someone slouchs in a regular office chair, they'll probably slouch in a kneeling chair too. In which case, it might be a good idea to try the $10 exercise ball route before you drop a a few hundred dollars on a fancy ergonomic miracle.You may be right there. But I still can't see myself using a ball as a long-term solution. Especially if I'm concentrated on something else, I fear I might tip over and cause serous back problems. Purely on the safety factor I don't see it as a good solution, but it might be worth to try out anyway.
@davkol: Hmm... Are you talking from experience or just repeating what's online?We've had one for ~20 years at home. I use it from time to time, but it's not for prolonged sessions. Nothing is, though. Even the worst chair might work, if it's right height and you get up every now and then (stress on the now).
Nice boss, buying you a chair :)
@rowdy: Agreed. Especially if it's the aforementioned models that really generous. Sounds like a boss who really cares about his employees.He was a great boss indeed.
It almost sounds like I've made up my mind :-X
@davkol: Hmm... Are you talking from experience or just repeating what's online?We've had one for ~20 years at home. I use it from time to time, but it's not for prolonged sessions. Nothing is, though. Even the worst chair might work, if it's right height and you get up every now and then (stress on the now).
I think you have ;-) It sounds like you have a solid contingency plan if you don't like it.Yep :thumb: At least I hope so.
But as Rowdy mentioned earlier, its easy to put your feet up on the shin rests and just put your elbows on your knees. -- I also found that having the monitor at the right height helped a lot. To reduce the amount I slouch. I have found that I slouch a bit in all chairs.
@PieterGen: Thanks for sharing your experiences with the chair.
The model you call "luxury" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) is the one I'm trying to get. I think it has the rough wool upholstery. Good to hear you like it.
Have you found the lack of armrests to be a problem in day-to-day office use, or have you solved it some other way. I would imagine without armrests you are more likely to slouch, but then again armrest set up at the wrong height could make you slouch slightly to begin with.
@PieterGen: Thanks for sharing your experiences with the chair.
The model you call "luxury" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) is the one I'm trying to get. I think it has the rough wool upholstery. Good to hear you like it.
Have you found the lack of armrests to be a problem in day-to-day office use, or have you solved it some other way. I would imagine without armrests you are more likely to slouch, but then again armrest set up at the wrong height could make you slouch slightly to begin with.
Personally, I have found I have much better posture using chairs with no arm rests. While I don't have an office job, or even touch a keyboard (only ever used a laptop twice at work since 07) I is d to game a lot with MMOs. Sometimes as much as 6+ hours at a shot before my kids were born. After switching to a chair with no arm rests, I won't go back.
it forces my head and butt forward, while my back curves to the back, my spine making a C shape.
I've been using a stool rather than a chair for the past three weeks. I can't speak for the kneeling chair, it looks like it would be bad for the knee joints. Regardless of the chair I noticed that I had to switch back to a chair with back support a few times during the first week. Sitting upright without back support became much easier after that first week.
Just sitting around has strengthened my core better than the measly amount of crunches I would do before the stool.
I really like the HÅG Capisco chair. Works great as either a tall saddle seat or low regular office chair, and also supports several other sitting postures, e.g. leaning backwards, sitting on it reversed with arms on the backrest, etc. Works for both me (6'2") and my wife (5'3"), in combination with an adjustable-height desk.
A kneeling chair works pretty well for me for about 30–60 minutes, after which it starts to get uncomfortable.
I highly recommend finding a store near you which sells alternative chairs, and asking if you can go work there for a day, sitting in various chairs for at least an hour at a time. IMO that will help you more than reading anything on the internet. If that’s not possible, see if you can find a vendor with some kind of short term rental, or some kind of trial period on the purchase.
If you have a budget in the $150–200 range, the HumanTool Balance Seat is a kind of fun thing.
I suppose it doesn't hurt to try living without armrests before shelling out more money. I've personally found that without armrests my arms/shoulders begin to hurt (could be due to lack of muscle), and if I do detailed work with the mouse it causes RSI symptoms unless I can rest my arm. Something like this is what I'd think about:Thank you for that factoid :) I've remained fit through out the years an maintain a somewhat proper diet so I haven't noticed a curve in my spine similar to lumbar lordosis. I've noticed some abs though--I haven't seen those in a few years :cool:MoreShow Image(http://www.ergovancouver.net/images/ergorest/ergorest_ergorest_forearm_support_p4_800x1000.jpg)I've been using a stool rather than a chair for the past three weeks. I can't speak for the kneeling chair, it looks like it would be bad for the knee joints. Regardless of the chair I noticed that I had to switch back to a chair with back support a few times during the first week. Sitting upright without back support became much easier after that first week.
Just sitting around has strengthened my core better than the measly amount of crunches I would do before the stool.
Normal chairs where you sit at a 90° angle upright can cause lumbar lordosis, since your waist and lower back are at an unnatural angle. This causes stress in the lower back and requires more work to keep an upright posture. Humans are meant to stand or squat. The effects on knees remain to be seen, but supposedly it's no issue when the chair is set up properly and the person sitting is about "average" in height and weight. Kneeling and saddle chairs put your legs, waist and back in a similar posture as when you're standing. That's their main benefit.I really like the HÅG Capisco chair. Works great as either a tall saddle seat or low regular office chair, and also supports several other sitting postures, e.g. leaning backwards, sitting on it reversed with arms on the backrest, etc. Works for both me (6'2") and my wife (5'3"), in combination with an adjustable-height desk.
A kneeling chair works pretty well for me for about 30–60 minutes, after which it starts to get uncomfortable.
I've looked at saddle chairs, and they would be optimal in terms of relative angle of legs. However that would require a complete makeover with a new taller table. The Capisco looks neat. Maybe one day when I have the budget...
For reference, what model keeling chair did you try and was it adjusted properly? Kneeling chair design changes drastically between makers and models. Only a handful of companies seem to get it right.I highly recommend finding a store near you which sells alternative chairs, and asking if you can go work there for a day, sitting in various chairs for at least an hour at a time. IMO that will help you more than reading anything on the internet. If that’s not possible, see if you can find a vendor with some kind of short term rental, or some kind of trial period on the purchase.
There are a couple of businesses, however they are barely stocked. It seems that speciality shops are doing bad in the current market. Also as mentioned by others even trying out a chair for a couple hours in a store hardly tells much. There should be an option to try out a chair for a week or two with money-back guarantee. Most ergonomic chairs require you to train unused muscles before you can comfortably use it, and sometimes the least comfortable chair might end up being the best choice in terms of ergonomics. That's the reason why I asked for other peoples experiences to get a better picture of what is just marketing hype and what is actually true, and what and why makes the kneeling chairs good or bad. I think based on the answers and googling so far I've got a pretty clear picture of what I'm getting and deduced that it might be good for my case, worth a try anyway. As long as the chair is widely adjustable, buying without trying is less of a risk.If you have a budget in the $150–200 range, the HumanTool Balance Seat is a kind of fun thing.
With that budget I can already buy an actual chair. The seat looks kinda neat for portability tho, however as mention above, saddle chairs only work if there is enough vertical room to make use of the increased leg angle. Otherwise the only benefit is a more evenly spread out weight of the body, which can be really helpful in other cases. Overall it's not quite what I'm looking for. But thanks for your post, appreciate it.
Speaking of alternate chairs, I found something hilarious:MoreShow Image(https://mir-s3-cdn-cf.behance.net/project_modules/disp/6cb9e22110281.560122e21261d.jpg)MoreShow Image(https://mir-s3-cdn-cf.behance.net/project_modules/disp/4a0c6e2110292.5601214a9e6a3.jpg)
I wanna see a picture of an entire office sitting in those chairs. I feel bad for the chair, it looks so ridiculous, and yet comfortable in it's own way. Maybe it's the future of sitting.
Normal chairs where you sit at a 90° angle upright can cause lumbar lordosis, since your waist and lower back are at an unnatural angle. This causes stress in the lower back and requires more work to keep an upright posture. Humans are meant to stand or squat.Eh. It’s possible to sit okay on a regular chair, you just need to get your butt properly out behind your body, with your torso upright, and not be using the backrest most of the time. And then not stay sitting continuously for hours on end. Among “regular” chairs, I like the simple wooden kind. They’re much better than those super cushioned office chairs.
I've looked at saddle chairs, and they would be optimal in terms of relative angle of legs. However that would require a complete makeover with a new taller table.Can you take some pictures of your current setup, with you sitting in it? Or maybe some measurements? How tall are you?
For reference, what model keeling chair did you try and was it adjusted properly? Kneeling chair design changes drastically between makers and models. Only a handful of companies seem to get it right.I tried about 4 different models, including both of the ones pictured upthread. Again, I like kneeling chairs okay. They’re pretty comfortable for about 30–60 minutes, but after that my legs start feeling stiff. Maybe I’d get used to them if I used one all the time, but for full-time use I prefer other types of seating. YMMV, etc.
There are a couple of businesses, however they are barely stocked. It seems that speciality shops are doing bad in the current market. Also as mentioned by others even trying out a chair for a couple hours in a store hardly tells much. There should be an option to try out a chair for a week or two with money-back guarantee.Even a couple hours of use is going to tell you more than any amount of reading, is all I’m saying. I agree that trying something for a week is better still, if possible.
I tried about 4 different models, including both of the ones pictured upthread. Again, I like kneeling chairs okay. They’re pretty comfortable for about 30–60 minutes, but after that my legs start feeling stiff. Maybe I’d get used to them if I used one all the time, but for full-time use I prefer other types of seating. YMMV, etc.
Even a couple hours of use is going to tell you more than any amount of reading, is all I’m saying. I agree that trying something for a week is better still, if possible.
If you do want to read something though, I recommend Peter Opsvik’s book Rethinking Sitting.
Thank you for that factoid :) I've remained fit through out the years an maintain a somewhat proper diet so I haven't noticed a curve in my spine similar to lumbar lordosis. I've noticed some abs though--I haven't seen those in a few years :cool:
It's standard height 70 cm IKEA table [...] I'm about 5'10" if I did the conversion right [178 cm] [...]
For a saddle chair to be optimal, it should be so that your legs reach the ground without stretching or bending much, in my case around 70 cm. Of course it doesn't have to, but you lose it's major advantage if you don't.
@PieterGen: Thanks for sharing your experiences with the chair.
The model you call "luxury" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) is the one I'm trying to get. I think it has the rough wool upholstery. Good to hear you like it.
Have you found the lack of armrests to be a problem in day-to-day office use, or have you solved it some other way. I would imagine without armrests you are more likely to slouch, but then again armrest set up at the wrong height could make you slouch slightly to begin with.
I really like the HÅG Capisco chair. Works great as either a tall saddle seat or low regular office chair, and also supports several other sitting postures, e.g. leaning backwards, sitting on it reversed with arms on the backrest, etc. Works for both me (6'2") and my wife (5'3"), in combination with an adjustable-height desk.
A kneeling chair works pretty well for me for about 30–60 minutes, after which it starts to get uncomfortable.
I highly recommend finding a store near you which sells alternative chairs, and asking if you can go work there for a day, sitting in various chairs for at least an hour at a time. IMO that will help you more than reading anything on the internet. If that’s not possible, see if you can find a vendor with some kind of short term rental, or some kind of trial period on the purchase.it forces my head and butt forward, while my back curves to the back, my spine making a C shape.
This is not a good posture to adopt, even in a rotation among several positions. You shouldn’t have to wreck your spine to be “comfortable”.
* * *
If you have a budget in the $150–200 range, the HumanTool Balance Seat is a kind of fun thing.
The Varier webpage suggests the Balans (Thatsit about same height) is designed for 72-77 cm tables,Nice chairs, but the Varier website is terrible. Bleh. They should have a lot more pictures and less autoplaying video. Their CSS/design is also very broken in my browser, the site navigation is confusing, etc.
I even ran out of books to put under my monitor, damn digital-book age. Currently it's 24 cm higher than without any books, but it could be even higher.Note, the standard advice about putting the monitor directly in front of your face is questionable, and some ergonomics studies found people had better overall posture with a lower monitor.
This helps my eye strain! Thank you :thumb:I even ran out of books to put under my monitor, damn digital-book age. Currently it's 24 cm higher than without any books, but it could be even higher.Note, the standard advice about putting the monitor directly in front of your face is questionable, and some ergonomics studies found people had better overall posture with a lower monitor.
It works just fine to have the monitor lower than that, optionally tilted backward. It’s probably better, actually, from an eyestrain perspective. Just keep your head straight, and turn your eyeballs to look at the lower monitor. Turns out that human eyes have an easier time focusing and converging on near objects which are in the lower part of the field of view. The evolutionary reason for this is that looking straight ahead typically involves looking at distant objects, whereas you need to look downward to do close work with your hands.
The chair feels just a little bit flimsy when you move sideways, but you get used to it pretty quick and TBH it doesn't feel like it will fall apart any time soon.
One very strong suggestion:
Working on your core...your stomach/gut muscles has A LOT to do with your back, hips, neck, posture and comfort. I've found the better condition I'm in, the less the chairs I use affect me. It's very noticeable.
I have used them for over 20 years. Best chairs aroud. I have one at home and one in the office. The simple one I have at
In the luxury one you can also sit "normal style", that is, not-kneeling. It has a very nice back support. The simpler one requieres more training but it nice too (like I said, I have used them for a very long time). I do not like any other office chair as much as these ones. The luxury one is the best.
The Brand is Stokke (or Varier, they changed names0. I believe they are from Norway or Denmark. I have a weak lower back. These are the only chairs I can sit in when my back is really hurting. Normal office chairs suck, as far as Iḿ concerned, I never have used one that I liked.
Can you sit all day long on them? Yes
Will your knees or legs hurt after a while? No
Is it good for your back? Yes.
Two remarks:
- they dont have wheels, so you wont be rolling around in your office. This may take getting used to.
- the best thing is to buy one with a "rough" textile on it. So not a "smooth, silk like" fabric. A more textured fabric will help you stay more "planted", especially your behind.
These chairs look great. How much are those on average?
I think they're definitely more expensive than most of beds in the IKEA.