[IC] Reflex & Paradox - 60% O-Ring Mount (GB Preparation)

[otanishock]

Looking really pretty now
Btw do you have finalized list of avaliable colours yet or its still in voting process?

Looking really pretty now
Btw do you have finalized list of avaliable colours yet or its still in voting process?

I think he said normal anodizing in black, dark grey, and blue grey for 6063, and hard coat anodizing in black for 7075

There may be a mystery color chosen closer to the GB, as what we have now, although covers 90% of the IC participants, seems a little monotone...

A vote for navy/lake color. That just looks so sick

[ptiede]

So happy with the direction this is taking. I hope I can get one and don't miss out!

[Mcnos]

Will this be FCFS or Raffle

[bdkrzy]

Will this be FCFS or Raffle

With all the hype's been going on, I need to bring in my trash-form filling A game lol.

[Mcnos]

Will this be FCFS or Raffle

With all the hype's been going on, I need to bring in my trash-form filling A game lol.

Google autofill does wonders

[lordgiblite]

Sorry, thought I had posted them already...   

(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

Expend below for more.

More

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O-Ring Post - Snug fit
(Attachment Link)

Trying out different combinations of O-Ring Hardness
(Attachment Link)

Sorry, didn't have any keyset that goes with the case color...
(Attachment Link)

This is NOT the final Blue Grey Color, in case anyone is wondering...

The case is 7075-T6 Aluminium with Normal Anodizing and Shiny Finish (Bright Dipped).

You know, just when I spent some money on a "nice" high/mid end 60 after being out of the mech game for a little bit I stumble on this...this magnificent piece of metal. Oh my lordy lordness, I wish I was a little bit richer now.

[bdkrzy]

This will be a very dirty fight for a spot 

[Windeh]

Oh, it all looks dope man. Love the Paradox, wished there was a full build picture with cherry profile caps. 

I only have Modern Dolch & GMK Space Cadet coming next year, don't think they will arrive in time for the GB...

Will this be FCFS or Raffle

It will be both. As the IC currently stands, first half of the spots will be taken up by FCFS, and the rest will be entered into a raffle. This seem to be the fairest way to run the GB, so you're not SOL if your computer crashes, internet dies or fat-fingered, yet still get a chance to test your ninja script form submit skillz.

More details will be given ahead of the GB.

[Windeh]

Some (semi-finalized) updates to both case & plate designs.

Highlights:

• Finalized plate design for optimized stress distribution
• Added support ribs for Reflex grill
• Increased Reflex weight fastener size
• Fasteners added to 4 corners of the case for additional clamping and tighter seal
• Reduced gap between keys & case top
• Significantly increased top piece rigidity
• Increased interlocking area of top & bottom piece
• Biased O-Ring post length for easier assembly
• Slightly enlarged USB port size
• Slightly enlarged feet recess size

Reflex





Paradox





Plate Design




UPDATED PRE-GB IC FORM
https://goo.gl/forms/kSBTWylS7VxydKMu1

[Windeh]

Added WKL/Standard top option in the Form. If there are enough demand I may offer the option.

[otanishock]

Some (semi-finalized) updates to both case & plate designs.

Highlights:

• Finalized plate design for optimized stress distribution
• Added support ribs for Reflex grill
• Increased Reflex weight fastener size
• Fasteners added to 4 corners of the case for additional clamping and tighter seal
• Reduced gap between keys & case top
• Significantly increased top piece rigidity
• Increased interlocking area of top & bottom piece
• Biased O-Ring post length for easier assembly
• Slightly enlarged USB port size
• Slightly enlarged feet recess size

Reflex
(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)


Paradox
(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)


Plate Design
(Attachment Link)



UPDATED PRE-GB IC FORM
https://goo.gl/forms/kSBTWylS7VxydKMu1

Call me crazy all you want, but I am strongly considering signing up for both 😁

[1023andy]

Form submitted. The winkeyless looks so good.. but i want to use the purple window keys included on my hyperfuse so I just chose standard layout. And for the mystery color, I want white but I guess it's unlikely to happen because it requires different types of finish?

[vikipedeer]

I really really hope I can get in this GB because I'd be really sad if I miss it lol

[Windeh]

Form submitted. The winkeyless looks so good.. but i want to use the purple window keys included on my hyperfuse so I just chose standard layout. And for the mystery color, I want white but I guess it's unlikely to happen because it requires different types of finish?

The white does require a different process to coat, so don't think I'd want to complicate this GB unnecessarily. And yes, to the note you left in the IC - mystery colors, if offered, will only be available on 6063 Aluminium.

[vikipedeer]

Oh btw, just to clarify my odd IC, I choose 7075 Alu with hard coated in the IC form but if you actually offered Navy Blue on 6063 Alu I'd opt for that instead.

[1023andy]

You said hard coat anodizing in dark grey is difficult to be perfect. How likely is it to get almost perfect ano?

[Windeh]

Oh btw, just to clarify my odd IC, I choose 7075 Alu with hard coated in the IC form but if you actually offered Navy Blue on 6063 Alu I'd opt for that instead.

No worries. Mystery colors are just a fun IC to see what people will chose, but most will probably stick with safer colors that goes well with multiple keysets. Will see how that goes.

You said hard coat anodizing in dark grey is difficult to be perfect. How likely is it to get almost perfect ano?

In 7075 aluminium? Very unlikely. Hard anodizing will not be offered for 6063 aluminium.

[1023andy]

Oh btw, just to clarify my odd IC, I choose 7075 Alu with hard coated in the IC form but if you actually offered Navy Blue on 6063 Alu I'd opt for that instead.

No worries. Mystery colors are just a fun IC to see what people will chose, but most will probably stick with safer colors that goes well with multiple keysets. Will see how that goes.

You said hard coat anodizing in dark grey is difficult to be perfect. How likely is it to get almost perfect ano?

In 7075 aluminium? Very unlikely. Hard anodizing will not be offered for 6063 aluminium.

I really can't decide between hard coat black or normal dark grey..

[bdkrzy]

In 7075 aluminium? Very unlikely. Hard anodizing will not be offered for 6063 aluminium.

Sorry to ask but I'm kinda confused about the anodizing option. What's the main difference between regular anodizing and hard anodizing?

[Windeh]

In 7075 aluminium? Very unlikely. Hard anodizing will not be offered for 6063 aluminium.

Sorry to ask but I'm kinda confused about the anodizing option. What's the main difference between regular anodizing and hard anodizing?

You can check out this post earlier in the thread on the differences.

In case You're not sure about the differences between anodizing types & matt/glossy(Shiny) finish options in the form, below is some quick photos & comparison table for you to consider;

Normal Vs. Hard Anodizing
(Attachment Link)
Source

Note that due to the thickness and color of the oxide layer, hard anodizing are normally only dyed in darker colors, with a tint depending on the aluminium grade used. In the case of 7075-T6, it would be a brown/bronze tint.

There are a few earlier posts that touches on why only black is offered for 7075-T6 aluminium. Hard or normal anodizing does not affect anodizing consistency as much as which aluminium alloy series used.

[Windeh]

Oh btw, just to clarify my odd IC, I choose 7075 Alu with hard coated in the IC form but if you actually offered Navy Blue on 6063 Alu I'd opt for that instead.

No worries. Mystery colors are just a fun IC to see what people will chose, but most will probably stick with safer colors that goes well with multiple keysets. Will see how that goes.

You said hard coat anodizing in dark grey is difficult to be perfect. How likely is it to get almost perfect ano?

In 7075 aluminium? Very unlikely. Hard anodizing will not be offered for 6063 aluminium.

I really can't decide between hard coat black or normal dark grey..

I hear you. I also wanted dark grey hard anodizing so bad...  But the risk is just too high to offer it at this price point. 

[1023andy]

I have a question about weight. How does sandblasted+clear coated brass looks like? Is it something similar to tx60 weight?

[phearboner]

Very interesting design! What is the difference between normal and hard anodizing?

[vikipedeer]

Very interesting design! What is the difference between normal and hard anodizing?

In case You're not sure about the differences between anodizing types & matt/glossy(Shiny) finish options in the form, below is some quick photos & comparison table for you to consider;

Normal Vs. Hard Anodizing
(Attachment Link)
Source

Note that due to the thickness and color of the oxide layer, hard anodizing are normally only dyed in darker colors, with a tint depending on the aluminium grade used. In the case of 7075-T6, it would be a brown/bronze tint.


Matt Vs. Bright Dipped, (Matt on top, glossy/shiny below)
(Attachment Link)
Source

Seems many Korean customs are bright dipped, which was the case for my TX60.

An interesting side note, for matt finish, if you slide your nail across the surface, a white mark will be left on the surface, which can be wiped off (Basically your nail transferring onto the harder and "rough" surface). For bright dipped, this does not happen, as although as hard, the surface is extremely smooth.

also for others that asked the similar question to see

[Starston3]

It will be both. As the IC currently stands, first half of the spots will be taken up by FCFS, and the rest will be entered into a raffle. This seem to be the fairest way to run the GB, so you're not SOL if your computer crashes, internet dies or fat-fingered, yet still get a chance to test your ninja script form submit skillz.

More details will be given ahead of the GB.

Say someone were to get both. Would that count as 1 or 2? Just wondering as there are limited spots for the FCFS half.

[bthezebra]

Submitted my feedback on the IC form, very much looking forward to this 

[Windeh]

I have a question about weight. How does sandblasted+clear coated brass looks like? Is it something similar to tx60 weight?

You can check out the brass plate and weight in the post below for reference, they are sandblasted & clear-coated.

Some Reflex love
(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

And the screw...
(Attachment Link)

[macclack]

The more I look at this the more I’m realizing this is my ideal setup. I really hope I’m able to get in on the buy!

[1023andy]

I forgot one of the most important question... What is the angle of the reflex&paradox? It seems quite low in the picture

[garbo]

I forgot one of the most important question... What is the angle of the reflex&paradox? It seems quite low in the picture

It's 7° based on the opening post. Sort of on the low end but still pretty standard.

[1023andy]

I forgot one of the most important question... What is the angle of the reflex&paradox? It seems quite low in the picture

It's 7° based on the opening post. Sort of on the low end but still pretty standard.

I'm ok with 7. I'm not a big fan of high angle

[Windeh]

I forgot one of the most important question... What is the angle of the reflex&paradox? It seems quite low in the picture

It's 7° based on the opening post. Sort of on the low end but still pretty standard.

I was wondering when the angle will be asked... then when you answered 7 degrees I was like - wat? did I give that info???

[otanishock]

Any new updates Windeh? Or even just more pictures. Tbh haven't felt this excited for a while. Really really looking forward 

[1023andy]

If you choose polished brass, is it going to be more expensive than sandblasted?

[Windeh]

I am requesting for quotes from a few factories at the moment at GB quantities, getting quotes back, and thinking why didn't I just design a rectangle and call it a day... 

[Windeh]

If you choose polished brass, is it going to be more expensive than sandblasted?

there will be a small upgrade cost for polished weight Vs. sandblasted, and also for upgrading from 6 series aluminium with normal anodizing to 7 series aluminium with Hard Anodizing.

Pricing will be confirmed and announced before the GB.

[1023andy]

How heavy is the prototype when fully built?

[1023andy]

So how are things going?

[Windeh]

How heavy is the prototype when fully built?

I will try to weight the Master Sample Prototypes once they are received. Don't have any scales in the house... 

So how are things going?

Guess it's time for a quick update.

The first prototype samples have been used exclusively for the past week, I am confident enough with the mount as is and went ahead with fabrication of the Master Sample prototype.


Some quick observations using the prototype;

• There are absolutely significant differences in typing feel and sound between different O-Ring Hardness. Total success on the mounting concept.
• The case is completely isolated from the plate & PCB, so most vibrations from the plate does not actually transfer to the case, yet is dampened by the O-Rings.
• Your switches and springs better be lubed or are free from spring ping or you will have a very noisy board due to the floating plate design. Stock Halo Clears are horribly pingy.

On the manufacturing;

• I have changed factory for the Master Sample Prototype & upcoming GB from the first prototype samples due to better guaranteed tolerances for machining.
• Master Sample Prototypes and anodizing color samples have been ordered, 2-3 weeks lead time.
• There will be a MOQ of 30 total units, maximum 30 total units, 15 sets of each design. Should the GB not reach MOQ, it will be cancelled.
• There will NOT be a rerun of either Paradox or Reflex designs after this GB, at least not in its current form, due to the exorbitant machining costs for each set.
• The base set will include a 6063 Case Top (Standard or WKL) & Case Bottom in normal anodizing, Sandblasted Brass Weight and Sandblasted Brass Plate.
• Optional extras are upgrade to 7075-T6 Case Top & Bottom in Black Hard Anodizing, Polished Brass Weight & Extra Plates in Sandblasted Brass / Aluminium / Copper.
• Base Kit will be kept under $500 per set (excluding PayPal fees). At this price I'm barely breaking even, but don't want to raise the price any higher then it already is.

Timeline;

GB is still on track to go live in December / January.

FCFS / Raffle rules, Prices & other GB details will be announced closer to the Group Buy.

Let me know if you have any questions.

[slxdegrees]

Guess I know what I'll be saving my money for this xmas...

[airlangga07]

How heavy is the prototype when fully built?

I will try to weight the Master Sample Prototypes once they are received. Don't have any scales in the house... 

So how are things going?

Guess it's time for a quick update.

The first prototype samples have been used exclusively for the past week, I am confident enough with the mount as is and went ahead with fabrication of the Master Sample prototype.


Some quick observations using the prototype;

• There are absolutely significant differences in typing feel and sound between different O-Ring Hardness. Total success on the mounting concept.
• The case is completely isolated from the plate & PCB, so most vibrations from the plate does not actually transfer to the case, yet is dampened by the O-Rings.
• Your switches and springs better be lubed or are free from spring ping or you will have a very noisy board due to the floating plate design. Stock Halo Clears are horribly pingy.

On the manufacturing;

• I have changed factory for the Master Sample Prototype & upcoming GB from the first prototype samples due to better guaranteed tolerances for machining.
• Master Sample Prototypes and anodizing color samples have been ordered, 2-3 weeks lead time.
• There will be a MOQ of 30 total units, maximum 30 total units, 15 sets of each design. Should the GB not reach MOQ, it will be cancelled.
• There will NOT be a rerun of either Paradox or Reflex designs after this GB, at least not in its current form, due to the exorbitant machining costs for each set.
• The base set will include a 6063 Case Top (Standard or WKL) & Case Bottom in normal anodizing, Sandblasted Brass Weight and Sandblasted Brass Plate.
• Optional extras are upgrade to 7075-T6 Case Top & Bottom in Black Hard Anodizing, Polished Brass Weight & Extra Plates in Sandblasted Brass / Aluminium / Copper.
• Base Kit will be kept under $500 per set (excluding PayPal fees). At this price I'm barely breaking even, but don't want to raise the price any higher then it already is.

Timeline;

GB is still on track to go live in December / January.

FCFS / Raffle rules, Prices & other GB details will be announced closer to the Group Buy.

Let me know if you have any questions.

is form filled, and I really excited for this board! I check your thread almost everyday lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mcnos]

Ready, kind of.

[1023andy]

Let's start the GB on January. I still need a bit more money

[Punchy Lab]

It's really a good design for reflex, but I need hhkb. I hope it will provide hhkb layout later.

[airlangga07]

It's really a good design for reflex, but I need hhkb. I hope it will provide hhkb layout later.

I second this and would def picked the HHKB layout anyday. But I am also curious about the o-ring mount feel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[otanishock]

I hope the GB will go live ASAP. Hopefully early December. Can't wait!

[funderburker]

Just caught up on this and it sure looks great and the proto photos make me so jelly...

But I still have a question - given Reflex and Paradox is meant to be unique sounding and you have protos for both. Is there a chance to hear typing/sound tests? It's not necessary for GB but I enjoy me some typing tests.

[Windeh]

Just caught up on this and it sure looks great and the proto photos make me so jelly...

But I still have a question - given Reflex and Paradox is meant to be unique sounding and you have protos for both. Is there a chance to hear typing/sound tests? It's not necessary for GB but I enjoy me some typing tests.

I have some Tealios & Zealios V2 coming in late December that I will lube and build up the Master Sample that is in fabrication now. Unfortunately it most likely will not make it to me in time for the GB...

I would suggest choosing which design you prefer over any differences in typing sound between the two. The Reflex was designed with mimicking the loud speaker in mind, and in theory would change the sound due to the bottom opening. However in practice the O-Ring hardness has far more pronounced effect on sound & feel.

Personally I'd get the Reflex just cus there will likely not be another board quite like it. 

The current stock Halo Clears in my first proto have terribad spring ping, and I will not subject anyone's ear to such atrocity... 

[funderburker]

Just caught up on this and it sure looks great and the proto photos make me so jelly...

But I still have a question - given Reflex and Paradox is meant to be unique sounding and you have protos for both. Is there a chance to hear typing/sound tests? It's not necessary for GB but I enjoy me some typing tests.

I have some Tealios & Zealios V2 coming in late December that I will lube and build up the Master Sample that is in fabrication now. Unfortunately it most likely will not make it to me in time for the GB...

I would suggest choosing which design you prefer over any differences in typing sound between the two. The Reflex was designed with mimicking the loud speaker in mind, and in theory would change the sound due to the bottom opening. However in practice the O-Ring hardness has far more pronounced effect on sound & feel.

Personally I'd get the Reflex just cus there will likely not be another board quite like it. 

The current stock Halo Clears in my first proto have terribad spring ping, and I will not subject anyone's ear to such atrocity... 

Of course choosing wouldn't be done by the typing sound alone lol but I'm just really curious about the sound signature of each board. I'd go for Paradox though as I love the simplicity of it but Reflex is also beautiful! 

[Mcnos]

Lol I just realized I wuoted myself from a different thread, how did that happen. Let me fix that. Also looking forward to picking up Paradox.